Hey you!!! :)

I am so envious of you.. I have thought about the massage idea dozens of times in the past 24hrs( I spent last night with insomnia.....I managed to fall asleep 2x for 15mins....I really hate that!! ) And see, I have been sleeping pretty okay, other than the first 3-4 days....not normal but okay.. but lastnight was the worst in 2wks...?? Ya just never know what the creative withdrawl may throw at you I guess... But as so many have told me, it seems to come and go... and that is how it seems to be going for, at least the 2 of us right now... so I would say, we are right on track!!! :)

As long as we keep our eye on the prize, we will all survive this!!! I for one, am absolutely sure I am never going back there. I have done the first 18 days for the very last time!!! :bouncing: But ya know, I would recommend for anyone else having to go through it, to move to where you are, so they have massage at their disposal!! :cool:

Joan

The sleep will come Joan...and when it does, it will be healthful, natural sleep...not the drug induced coma we manufactured for so long and called sleep.

Another thing that really helped me in the 'afterwithdrawls'...this sort of general malaise that lingered was a sauna. No evidence to back this up, but I felt like opiate metabolites...trapped in my body were leaving...very cleansing...very therapeutic....i LOVED that feeling. I also started doing birkrim (sp) yoga...which is done is a hot room. the stretching and sweating feels very cleansing. Just a thought.

dp

dp,


Yeah, I do know what you mean sorta.. that is part of my theory on hot baths.. I do run them just as hot as my skin can stand, because the more I sweat, the better I seem to feel afterward.. But maybe, now that I am at the point I am, I could actually leave the house, and do something like a sauna, or something. :) I have also been giving alot of thought to getting a massage. I just wonder how safe that would be for me, given the condition of my back and all...and anyone I would go to would have no idea about my history. So...don't know about that. :)

As far as sleep, I have actually been doing fairly well in that area, at least better than some of my past wds...but last night, I just could not fall asleep, it wasn't because of RLS or anything, I was relaxed enough, my mind just would not shut up!!!!!

Joan

Yes...the back thing. A 'certified' massage therapist should be able to work around that and perhaps even help. If not, skip that part of you and have them focus on other things...legs, face, etc. It's all good:)

DP funny you brought up the sauna, I've been using mine daily just to feel clean (and warm sometimes). Between the massage and the hot tub soak I'm feeling better than I have. My malaise seems to be clearing too. How much of this is just mental I don't know.

He's right Joan, they don't need to do only the back. Hell my legs were probably driving me more nuts than my back at times, arms too. Although good luck acting like a "normal person" when you get one. I kept thinking "she totally knows' the whole time, but after a few minutes I stopped caring. Also you are totally right about that 15 minutes of sleep thing. That drives me nuts.

Hey I would reccomend it out here too, I love the Hills. This former Jersey boy remembers the days when the only massages were only in the malls in those chairs they have. They always made me sick though...chairs and malls! Going home to visit is always a culture shock.

As good as I feel sitting here, I still don't feel like dealing with the rest of the world. I am dreading Monday, which is weird for me. Had I known it would have taken this long I wouldn't have made so many meetings for then. I suppose I have no choice though unless I want more people banging on my door. I'm really concerned what happens when it's not just a meeting but actual work.

Large

I hear you both!!! I do, it is just today, I am in a slump, could it be that I did not sleep last night? I don't know, quite possibly....?? So, my mind is kind of back in a fog, and care about very little again today... Not agitated too tired for that!! Just..."zombie like"...I'm sure you can relate.. But, as you know, not all of us have the luxury of the world at our disposal. You think you go into culture shock going back east, you would just be amazed at how slowly everyone moves here.... There are honestly, get this, quite a few businesses here that just because the signe says:"Open at 9am"...I wouldn't bet on it. You can figure if it hits there this year, it may make its way up....in a couple of years.... :) I have been here so long now, I just take it as part of life, but if someone did that down there, it could possibly cause a full blown riot..

I'm sure I am digressing, I really don't know....I may not even be making sense anymore.....if I ever have yet today...

oh yeah, two things Large,

1. I flew one time on my first day of wds...from what you are coming off of.. from NY no less.....very long flight... it was THE MOST MISERABLE how ever many hrs of my life... I had RLS soooo bad, I had to keep getting up and pacing the aisle... I was sure everyone around me knew what was going on... but, I think by next Fri. did you say?, you should be good to go!!! In fact I would put money on it(if I hadn't blown it all on pills!!)
2. uh-oh...I forgot what two was,hmmmm oh yeah, I have also had to force myself to work feeling pretty crappy before....although you may not feel like you are in the same reality they are, you will be surprised what you are capable of when you have to be... But again, I truely believe that by Monday you should certainly see a marked improvement in the way you are feeling!!!!

how about that for positive? hmmmmmmm?

:) Joan(ne)

Awww Joanextraletters, I'm sorry you're having a bad day. There is nothing worse than feeling like nothing is going to lift that fog. I felt that way when I woke up. Because the withdrawal symptoms are what I want to escape from I have really had the full emotional weight of life hit me yet. I'm still too busy laughing/crying at songs and movies while I wait the pain out. For me it is all about the physical stuff, any emotional leakage seems to have no basis on logic nor does it last. Everything is fleeting at this stage, so I wish I could help. DP made a great point yesterday about the need to connect with 'real' people in person. Is there anyone there to take you out for dinner or something to just get out for a while?

It sounds like sleep depravation to me. That 7 hours spoiled ya. Collapse when you can and I bet you'll be back on top. I think some of my improved state today was due to all of the sleep I forced on myself yesterday. Like, today, I haven't fallen or spilled anything on myself all. I'm a big boy now!

I should clarify my "back east" comment; Jersey is where the fam is so heading there is ...well I believe the most common exchange in Jersey is:

"So, whatdya wanna do?"
"I don't know. What do you want to do?"

Now when I lived in NYC, different story. And once again, everything was available for delivery (although some you'd definitely NOT want). And in the city no one ever sits around without being able to come up with something to do. Man alive do I miss the pizza and bagels.

On a plane, in WD? I'd have jumped. You end up out detoxing at the worst places: planes, the woods. See there is something to be happy about, you are home today!


Large(NE) hehehehe

Large,

Yeah, I had the pleasure (that was my miserable plane ride...not the first or last I might add...but by far the worst)...of spending 10 days in NYC..talk about culture shock...oh my...I just remember standing there, amazed at all the activity(all night long)...the car horns(all million/all day and night).. well you know.. Being from where I live, I'm telling you, it is like the difference between LA Calif. and LA Alabama( I would imagine, however, I have never been to either).... It was the best I could do what can I say?

As far as people, and places, and things... I guess I must be sounding a little more homebound, at least the past few days, than I really am...based on yours and dp's comments...My marriage is still on relatively solid ground, just as long as I make it through this. I have gone and visitied friends, even this wk....I have gone on walks, and remember I just spent a wk camping, so I have definitely not been couped up this entire time. The thing that I have not done, and am not sure if I will....maybe on a better day, I could try to explain that better, if anyone is interested...is go to an AA/NA meeting, or the likes...So, as far as my life in general, I do have people that love me, I just have noone to talk to about my addiction...at least no one that understands. So yeah...anyway....What do ya wanna do?

I suppose I should go try to close my eyes for a while, but I hate the thought of trying, and failing. I would just rather stay awake, I've already proven I can stay up for 36hrs straight, and still, at least in my delirioous mind, appear as if I am functioning on some sort of level.. It is the brain to body communication that I lose first. kinda like you said yesterday, or some day :) that you were surprised that you didn't have to set a .30sec alarm to remind yourself to breath.. You get the picture.

By the way, are you moving at turtle speed today, compared to yesterday? Or is it just me?
I guess that's all...
I'm done.

oh wait..one more thing... the emotional part of this... I like you have never gone all the way through this..in fact you are already further than it took me 5 yrs to get :bouncing: so until now, I have only heard people talk about that part of it. I had no concept of it....but that is really where I am with this now..still no energy, except for yesterday, the physical symptoms do still kinda come and go intermitantly(Heck, I can't spell it), but the emotional/mental part can really be overwhelming.. But, don't you worry your pretty little head about that right now... You just focus on getting better!! But when you feel like you do right now, you are right all you want to do is escape it, and that has always bothered me so much about this!! Because the one thing that could possibly make you feel better, you are incapable of. At least without some outside infuence.. Ok...

Now I'm done. J
Joan()

I am moving a bit slower, I'm multitasking today. I'm doing this, I've got a movie on, and slowly going through emails, voicemails, and the like. Probably not the best idea, although listening to my mother on voicemail is great "if you're there, pick-up" as if I can some how hear voicemail live? It is not an answering machine people!

Good, I'm glad to hear you've got a good group around you. At the risk of inciting a firm smackdown from the mods; I'm not a 12 step kinda guy (too many reasons too explain). There will be no post-program, officially anyway. I know it works for a lot of people though so more power to ya.

Sleep...and failing. Man I hate that. I'm with you on rather not try. Once I stopped trying it got easier. I seem to be able to string together a little bit of sleep every day as long as I wait until I KNOW I'll sleep. Also, none of my old sleep positions work anymore. I find my self in the wierdest positions. I'll stop there before the double entendres start flowing.

I was taking the train in to the city when I was 5 auditioning for movies and I can remember feeling so small at first, but it became routine so fast. I hadn't played tourist in so long that when I was there about 7 months ago I had so much fun doing all the things I never when I lived there. I'll be doing the nature thing this fall. A group of us are doing the cabin in the woods thing for a week. No take-out. No delivery. God help us!

Good luck sleeping!

Large

Hey just to clarify something you said about the emotional/mental part...well I'm not sure I understand that part at all. I get pain, so this part is pretty easy to understand. The next level, well I hear everyone talk about it, but since I've never detoxed until now I have no personal experience to reference. Is it a craving thing?

I know there was the fearless factor or the being social factor on the pills with me and I do worry about responding without that crutch now, but I don't think this is what you mean.

Does the mental/emotional hit everyone?

Whoops my naive is showing.

Large

Large,

If you are wishing me good luck sleeping, I am not even going to attempt it right now...I am not at a place where I "know" it will happen rather I am absolutely sure that even if it did, it would only be for 15mins, and honestly I don't think I could handle that right now. I get so angry about that some..no most of the time! I want nothing more than to look at the clock after dozing off and seeing that, I would settle for an hr..any more would be a bonus, and it has only been 10 mins since you last looked!!! So, I learned a long time ago, that after day 3 or so, if it has happened at all, that is the end of it...at least for a while. So I would rather force myself to stay awake, and chance even an hr or two at night.... than have a nap that day to be mad at myself for on top of everything else...and everything seems so huge at night, doesn't it?
And as far as positions to sleep in...oh yeah...that is some kinda fun ain't it? I cannot believe I just used the word, ain't... :confused: My left hip and thigh hurt from the discs in my lower back...so even in a drug induced sleep, I am only able to sleep flat on my back... and we all know how impossible it is to stay in any one position for very long...So, sleep, wd, and Joan just do not mix well!!!

Are you sure you will survive, a whole week, with no front door service? Are people who live in the "Hills" even capable of camping for a week? Just kiddin' :angel:

Hey, you should probably tell me when I stop making any sense, unless I never was to begin with... OK?

J

Oh Joan, to "stop making sense" one of us would had to make sense to begin with and I'd venture that is unlikely. You and I understand each other because we speak "Insominese".

Here is the thing with sleep for me, I wasn't doing it much before anyway. Never have. In a way, I am -- I should NOT say this -- going to miss this a little. I know that sounds like I jinxed myself, but the thing is I hate sleep anyway and my body doesn't seem to need as much now so I can stay up far more. The only time I really craved it was when I was in pain or RLS was bad.
Even when I am tired I don't feel it as much mentally as I used to, when I had to fight sleep off with tons of cappuchino. So when this fades away, I won't miss it much, but a little bit. I know you want to punch me for this, sorry. I'm not normal.

I spend about 6 months out of every year going to sleep whenever, usually between 4-6AM and sleeping till a little after noon. Then when it was time to switch back to another schedule or something I would adjust and go to bed at midnight and get up in the morning, but I hate it because I love the quiet and peace of the night. 80% of everything I've ever written has been done between 8PM and 5AM. I know, weird.

I can't cook, but I can work a wicked BBQ so the cabin won't be too bad as long as no one wants anything that can't be grilled. Otherwise? SCREWED. Hollywood Hills is hardly Beverly Hills, it ain't caviar being delivered more like groceries and take-out. I'm not fancy, just lazy!

By the way, I couldn't sleep on my back before this. I mean never. Just couldn't. But lately I've woken up there a few times. I think it might have something to do with the fact that my legs are calmer there.


Large

L..

That is what I was trying to say, I think. This is the first time I have experienced this part of it also.. I always thought...yeah right..if I ever manage to actually make through the physical part of this, the mental will be a cake walk..pills are not my first dabble in the illicit....so I have "quit" other things in the past...come to find out I wasn't really quitting at all, just 'graduating", if you will...but the fact remains, there was never a physical wd from anything, making this, by far the hardest thing I would ever have to do. So, like you, and all of us were before we experienced any wd symptoms, basically had no concept of it. So....at some point, the phys. part begins to wane, the aches and pains.....etc... but you begin to feel this kind of "void"...it is not necessarily pills I crave. I just feel this emptiness, and the need to fill it, with I don't know what... But the worst part of this now for me is, my energy levels. Because when I was sick, I could have cared less that the dishes were stacking up, or the laundry is running out the door....but now, I am able to care, somewhat, but lack the energy or motivation to do anything about it. It feels what I imagine depression to feel like...Am I making the first bit of sense, or even beginning to answer your question? Again, this is the first time I have ever made it to what I perceived as easy way back when...But I would imagine an awful lot of people crack under this part of it.... But I WILL NOT!! I guess they now believe that alot of addicts began the doc to self medicate a condition ie: depression, bipolar, and whatever else. dp can probably tell you more...I'm pretty sure it was him that told me that.

J

Sorta off the topic here but is it just me or does this place seem strangely quiet for a Saturday afternoon? It's noon, people should be awake now right? I mean I have my theory on this, but I found it odd.


Large

OK I must now be hallucinating...i just answered a post from you, and spent a lot of time doing it, I might add, and now it does not exist ......hmmm :confused: Do you have any clue what I am talking about? J

And yes, it is very quiet, although, being Sat. it would make sense to me... we have to remember there are alot of people further than we are, so they probably have the energy and motivation to move more than their hands over a keyboard... but as a first hand witness, it has been quiet here since 1230 although at the moment there are 15 more people than there were early this morning... :) J

Actually you made tons of sense. Honestly, until I read what you wrote I never got it, or at least saw how it would be applicable to me. I do now though...crap. The ability to care...great way to put it. I hadn't thought about that. There are so many things I HAVE to do that I HATE doing, but I never care enough to get to worked up. Now I might and that worries me.

DP made a point to me about the mental, rather the unconcious mind kicking (like reaching for pills that aren't there anymore) but I couldn't really see that for me. I think I get it now. This makes me angry and honestly a little discouraged. Still I need to know these things. DP if you're floating around, how long does this part last (and feel free to lie to me!)? There is a trade off though right? Like you get these mental/emotional things, but you also get something emotionally/mentally because we aren't numb. This is what I tell myself anyway.

Joan, I can certainly see why you slipped before. What you described would drive me nuts (the empty but not sure how to fill it part). I think I can also see why Sub is so popular. I'd never touch in a million years but I see the appeal when you've tried and tried. I guess I feel so normal today it is hard to imagine not feeling like me some time soon. [says the man who is hiding from the world]

Your resolve is impressive. Thanks for blazing this trail before me.

Large

No Joan, I think one is missing too...or we're both nuts.


Large

(Blushing)......

Oh, if I had to blaze the trail for someone, it could not have been a nicer and more deserving person. I am so glad for you that you are kicking this early on...and not being as stupid and hard headed as I have been...I honestly would not even be able to count the times I have taken way too many pills, knowing I would be out, in wds....and did it anyway... the mind of an addict is a very scarey place at times... and totally illogical always!!!! But at the time, I'm sure it all made perfect sense to me...

I really think you will have an easier time with this part of it than, at least most of us...Because even though you have been taking them for a long time, you stuck to your dose... and it didn't become...such a life altering, guilt ridden existance for you... I can't help but think that all of the horrible things we do, the lies we tell, and all, don't start eating at us as we begin to "thaw out", as you so eloquently(I should just stick to small words today) put it..... maybe even before we know it, and that could be a possible reason for some of the feelings of depression...just knowing and finally having to face all the havoc you managed to wreak in you quest.... because when I was high, I could rationalize away anything!!! I don't know, but I do really beleive that you will be a lot stronger where I am when you get here, than I am being.. :) You have been so much smarter about your addiction that I have about mine... that has to count for something.... :)
J

Well, that we are both nuts is not that far out there... but I am sure I didn't respond to a ghost....or did I? Oh well, 100 yrs(make that 10 mins) from now it won't matter.... so I will opt out of exerting too much energy in trying to figure it out.... It would/will be definitely interesting to go back in a couple of months and read these posts.... I can't imagine how absolutely delirious they might sound... but right now I am understanding it all... well all except the ghost post... oh well can't win em all!!

J

I feel I should warn you, no pressure though... just want you to know... that if I sit idle for more than I'm thinking 3 mins or so... I may go after a bottle of water never to return :D .. so if I disappear, you will know what happened. But rest assured, cause I just know how much you will miss me(since I seem to be the only other person here right now :) ) that I couldn't possible sleep for more than 30 mins or so... so there ya go........... What do ya wanna do now? :D
If one were to get bored, I'm sure there is quite an archive of old posts that one could read and revive... I have seen some come out of '03 just recently... Now there is a valuable piece of info...
J

See that line of "am I dependent or addict" I never bothered looking at. I knew my body was went in to withdrawal if I didn't give it the pill so that was enough to worry me. I also suspect I never ran out because I was able to feel that sense of wellness on my current dose for so long and when I didn't I already understood what had happened by then but wasn't ready to quit. My story is so boring, I actually expected to get so heat for that. Mine was more internal than external is all. Trust me, plenty of guilt and shame over this.

As far as smarter? Smart doesn't leap from 1 vicodin to this without even questioning his doctors about the effects. I'm in this hell with ya because I'm an idiot (please refer to previous postings for documentation).

Well rest assured if the post physical stuff gets to me, everyone here will know it. I can't believe it has been a week since I quit. After day 3 it looking back it feels like everything went so fast. I wish there was a concrete day I could look forward to until this is all over. Like "Oh yeah on day 14 you'll be completely done" of course, I know this isn't possible because this is such a subjective thing. Right now things feel pretty okay, nothing stands out as really bothersome, just sore. Of course we know what happened last time I felt okay.



Large

If at any point you think you can sleep...do it! I'll be okay, even for another 7 hours. You need it. Plus you might feel a ton better, lift the mood up. As for me, I think I'm going to take a walk before it gets too late. I've been really bad about doing that. I wonder if not building up my own endorphines is the cause of the set back, so I feel compelled to actually take the advice around here today.

I'll catch up with ya in a little while!


Large

L,

You should go back and re read my last post, I think I probably changed it or something, after you read it.. maybe.. I don't know..

Yeah the addiction vs physical dependence issue.. They are definitely two seperate animals.. Ya know, over the past 5 yrs I have managed to accumulate an awful lot of info on this subject.. and just when I think I understand it... well I don't...or the info changes or something. But the way I understand it is, physical dependency is almost assured to happen to anyone who takes opiates(for the sake of this conversation)...for a period of time, and I think that probably even varies from person to peson. I heard once, and can't help but think it is a crock of you know what... since I have you for a prime example... that is a peson only takes their meds as perscribed, the will not become "dependant" on them. Ok..I will believe possibly not mentally dependant/addicted... but they will go through wds if/when the med is discontinued. That Dr that kicked me out of his office the other day told me once something like, 20% of the population is.. I can't remember the terms he used... but basically that, that % of people have a chemical inbalance in thier brains, that predispose them to addictive tendencies... I have no idea if there is any truth to that... but I do know that both of my parents were raging alcoholics....coincidence?? I think not!! Which should have been my first clue to run, Forrest, run.... but oh no....they made me feel way too good... and gave me the courage that other people talk about getting from whiskey or tequilla.... My stomach is just weak enough, that I am convinced makes me incapable of drinking alcohol excessively, which can't be all bad....given my history... so, pills was the way to avoid throwing up every morning... and well.... you get the picture.

I'm sure there was a point when I started typing this... but if there was it is gone now... and I seem unable to find it... so your ball... J

Well, my nap attemp was a bust!! I had a feeling I was wishful thinking.. It just amazes me how tired I can get, and still not be able to sleep. Bizarre... I, unlike you, used to love to sleep...but anymore, my body is what doesn't allow me to lay for too long...it will be interesting to see just how much of the pain I am feeling is wd related as opposed to real. Not sure I want the answer to that, but sure I will get it anyway!

A walk, now that is progress coming from the same guy, who sounded really miserable, just about 12 hrs ago... I am proud of you!! I do truely believe what you said about producing your own endorphines..I can think back to certain wd periods of mine(and there are MANY to think back to)....and it really does seem that, during the times when there was something else going on, whether it be emotionally exciting, or physically, the symptoms, at least as I remember them, were not quite as bad as other times... For instance, when I was camping, I was only on days 4-10....I was by no means 100%, but my mind was occupied, so the time wasn't spent thinking about how bad I felt, but on other things. So on day 10 I get home, and after being here for a couple of days, I definitely went downhill again....And this is only one example of this..I'm sure I could easily come up with at least a dozen other times..
I'm sure you/I can't be the first to discuss this here, but this is my revelation I suppose. I guess I have always known it. but again, this is my first attempt at completion, and each day is definitely different.. And you just never really know what to expect. In one way, I too wish I had a difinitive day to look forward to.. but then again, maybe I don't. I did know going into this that it could very well take me at least 30 days to feel "human" again.. and that very info is what has scared me back to pills every time.. 30 days of the first 4-5 days...NO THANKS..and yet here I am at coming up on 3 weeks. That just amazes me, I honest to God, truely doubted that I would ever make it past day 10 much less 20? My point there was, you said something about if you had known it was going to take as long as it is, you don't know if you would have made it this far, there is probably a ton of truth to that..I for one am very thankful that you did not know..
As one of the other non-compassionate people I have reached out to along this journey, a nurse no less, told me once..."People have bronchitis for a month at a time..just deal with it."....Yeah, so needless to say, I am very hesitant to reach out to anyone... because it is just easier to deal with my stuff myself.. Probably not the healthiest attitude to have, but just the way I have learned to survive, I guess.
Wow, I just realized how long this has gotten...Oh well, not like I'm taking someone else's air space at the moment. It actually feels a lot like it did at 430am here today, except the sun wasn't quite all the way up in the sky yet. And it wasn't 80 degrees out..and that is really hot for us!! I know it gets much hotter in other places.. I have actually lived in a few of them too...still prefer to be cold not hot..you can put on more clothes than you can take off... :)
So, I suppose I will stop bantering with myself for now..hope you are enjoying your walk, I'm sure you will feel better because of it.
I will try my best to check in tonight.... I have a feeling, I am in for another sleepless night....so I'm sure if you log on at 4am and there is 1viewing...it will probably be me...Oh yeah, you should check out the buddy list thing.. It will tell you if the people on your list are on or not.. Maybe everyone else but me knows that, but I just thought it was a good thing.

Thanks once again for listening to my often endless chatter(My hubby has become an expert at tuninig me out... I am quite a talker :) ) Which I can't help think can't make this any easier, because at the moment, even though I believe I am typing in whole thoughts and sentences, I am pretty sure, I could not form these words with my mouth today..That is okay, because of the yesterday I had, that gives me hope for the good days yet to come!!

I think that is all I had in my head to get out..for now anyway :)

J

I'm Back! So what started as a walk quickly turned in to a slew of activities, all very good. First I get outside and wander about with the mutt for a bit and then we decide to head back after not too long. After a few laps in the pool I head inside to settle in and my cell rings (I forgot to shut if off again when I was checking voicemail) and the call was from one of the friends I'd actually wanted to talk to. We ended up meeting up for dinner (I actually ate real food tonight!) and hanging out for a bit afterwards. Definitely brightened my spirits considerably since this was my first re-entry in to the land of the living (albeit a very small and quiet re-entry) and alot of my fears were unfounded...so far. My energy seemed to be on par with normal and my pain was manageable, though I did take 3 advil before I left. When I got home I actually crashed for about a half hour but that wasn't even planned. Here I am now and I still feel okay, a little sore now, but okay. I can'teven begin to describe how reassuring all of this is. It definitely built my confidence up a bit that I might actually be okay, for today anyway. Not too shabby for Day 7. This time a week ago I was scared, in pain, and considering all sorts of crazy thing.

Wow...I just yawned like 10 times. I think I'm crashing again. Congrats on almost 3 weeks, I can't wait to get to that point. I hope you are finally sleeping, let's see if this is sleep for me or if I end up frustrated.

I'll check in later

Large

Hey you!

I am so glad to hear that you had such an awesome evening!!! Good for you, I know how it must have helped. And with a whole week behind you to boot!!! Just keep remembering how far away where you are now used to seem, that has helped me more than once. :)

I only managed to sleep for 20 mins or so....am now dealing with the yuck that usually follows these "naps". But hangin in there still... :)

Im sure I will be on and off all night again,

J- :)

Large,

You will never guess what movie I am watching right now.... At first I was stunned that it was even possible, since 2 days ago I had never heard of it and now twice in as many days? But, I think I probably overreacted just a little....its on one of the HBO channels..so duhhh...So...anyway guess....I'll give ya a dollar if you're right. :) J-

Well,

Here I am at 2am, just as I suspected I would be...After trying to sleep for 3hrs, I managed to grab another 20mins. This just seems out of place to me, usually by at least by the 5th day or so, I can sleep for at least a couple of hrs at a time...which was the case even this time...but now on...day....man, I can't even keep track right now, because the days and nts just seem to run together when you aren't sleeping. 20 today is day 20!!! :bouncing: So, why does it feel so much like I'm back at 4? I really hope this doesn't discourage anyone, but there it is the not so pretty truth about these hellacious wds!!!!! I think I am honestly beginning to see though, just what a proud accomplishment this must be, to finally be able to say I beat it, and have an overwhelming desire to tell the whole world...Because, this is no small feat, and everyone who ever has or ever will get through drug addiction, has my utmost respect!!! :cool:

Anyway, I do realize I am probably here alone, but just thought this would occupy my mind, if only temporarily.. :)

J-

Hey Joan! PAY UP!!! Give me my dollar because "...the world doesn't meet you half way" and because I'm OVER THE TOP. -- Make it cash, No CHECKS!

I almost don't even want to update you considering your lack of sleep. I feel a little guilty because I had five hours and fifteen minutes of uninterupted sleep. If I tossed and turned I certainly don't remember because I awoke in the exact same spot and fell asleep fast. When I woke up it was slowly, instead of having to jump out of bed to walk off the pain or RSL. I'm as stunned as you. Closing out day 7 and starting day 8 like that was beyond my expectations. Unlike yesterday I feel really good since waking up and I haven't felt the RSL stuff almost at all. I know this can be fleeting and I could be sitting in set back mode within the hour again, but I am very thankful for the past 24 hours. For the first time since this began I actually feel normal now. My brain isn't cloudy and I don't feel like a zombie. I just feel like me. Let's see how long this lasts...

I'm glad you at least got a few hours of sleep, I was getting worried. I hate the feeling of progress slipping away so I can only imagine at day 20 how you feel. Your strength astounds me. Plus you are due for a string of good days now so hang on! You've doubled your all-time clean record and that's no small task. You are so close to a month and that seems to be the point where alot of people started to really feel like themselves. I'm more than your entire recovery time plus two days from a month so despite the sleep issues I envy you.

I'm still worried about Monday though. I really really don't want to deal with that. In fact I find myself already in dread mode and I'm barely in to Sunday. Monday is going to be a HUGE hurdle for me. I'm just not emotionally ready for restarting life in the real world. Oh I just thought of something, people are going to notice a difference. Maybe little things like the fact that I can't drink coffee right now when I used to live on the stuff. I am going to get questions that I can't answer. I should probably relax, I can probably play the flu card for Monday at least to handle that stuff.


Large

Good morning!!

I am so glad to hear how good you are feeling!!! And please don't feel guilty, because, whether you realize it or not, you have been such a source of strenght for me throught this!!! Your determination is nothing short of amazing, in itself!!!

I hate it when I sound like I am griping, because the reality is...I am so much better off than even this time last week.. And sleep...I know it will come. It is just so hard to handle the day to day, with no sleep, then toss in all the other stuff that goes with the territory we find ourselves in, and well, things become a little more difficult to deal with and process. I am sure that you know exactly what I mean!!

As far as Monday for you, I am sure you have a pretty strong sense of dread, because of the unknown, and yes the flu card works wonders.....until you have used it 100s of times,(which is how I ended up losing my job-due to too many days missed due to wds)..... but I just know you will do fine!! And once you do, you will be able to push yourself further and further each day! Just remember what I told you, you will be amazed at just what you are capable of pushing yourself to do, when you are determined to do it!!

Oh, by the way, I looked up the lyrics that you gave me the link to..can't remember right off the title...but the band was..."Fruh Fruh"..or something weird like that. Wow, now those are some very bizarre, almost seem drug induced lyrics alright! I would be interested to actually hear the song..which I will do at some point...... :)

I do hope you are still doing GREAT!!! I am really ok today also, just really tired, and shakey...mostly inside it seems.. I had a horrible neck/headache all day yesterday, so that could be the cause of my...discomfort today.. But overall, at least physically, I am doing ok.... And, yes, after my 20 min nap lastnight, I did manage to sleep for almost 3hrs.. so that is progress!!!
ps...have you checked out the buddy list feature yet?

Remember, you are not in this alone!!!!

J-

I'm glad today is going better for ya. Three hours of sleep at a clip is what I've made it this far on and considering that dry spell you had there, I'd say it sounds like you're coming out on the other side now. It can't be long now!!!

As far as Monday, I'm still working through my plan. I look so much different than I did when I saw anyone 10 or so days ago that even I can't believe it is me now. I thought about the flu thing but the down side of that is it will lead to a bunch of annoying home remedies and offers for the number of their mystic healers and shaiman, which I just don't have the patience for.

So instead of the flu I'm just going with being surly. I'm dressing waaaay down, not shaving, and I'll be rocking those dark sun glasses all day. If I look like a bus hit me and I snap any time some one probes too much they'll be hard pressed to say much, probably just assume I partied all weekend, which works for me. If I act accountable and offer reasons then every one would really know something was up. It's not like this is corporate america I'm dealing with here.

Unbelievably I've already eaten today. I ran down to Ralph's (store here) and grabbed some sushi and green tea. My appetite comes and goes, but eating didn't have any adverse reactions so I guess I can stop worrying there. Are you eating okay?

I've also started to re-engage myself with the world in other ways, returning some calls and emails today, checking up on the numbers, and reading the news. So far I am pleased to report that my head has not exploded. Nothing has triggered any sort of craving at all. Other than my back being more sore than I would like it to be, everything is pretty tolerable. I feel like I want to do something because I'm going a bit stir crazy, but I also don't want to over do it and end up DOA tomorrow.

Oh, and I did look in to the Buddylist, but I didn't see a PM function. I suspect that was intentional on their part.

Tonight if you're bored, check out Entourage on HBO at 10.

Large

Hey you!

Your plan for tomorrow should work, considering where you are (geographically :) )....because I would think(loose term), that would be a pretty common reason to look like death warmed over, come Monday morning..I on the other hand never had that luxury,although obviously, my approach didn't end up working out too well in the end... So.. yeah, follow your own instincts(wow, that looks really wrong, but I can't figure out how to fix it :confused: )...not my advice on this one!!!
I really do think though, that other than losing more weight than you probably realize, you don't look as different as you think you do...So, I am taking it, that you haven't braved the sharp razor to your face yet? I can't say I blame you, I cut myself several times this am just trying to shave my legs....so, on this one, do take my advice, and make sure you don't pick a time when you are shaking to attempt this..

Eating? I actually did better in the first week in that area than now...I do try to put something into my body that it can use...but for me, the trips to the bathroom have become all to frequent again...and I just hate that!!! So, my rationale is, if it doesn't go in...it's not there to come out.. Just one more of those fleeting symptoms....As long as the RLS stay at bay, I think I can handle all of the rest!!( I hope I didn't just jinx myself).....Oh I have to tell you on that note, yesterday, I was trying to give my brain something positive to focus on, because, my body hurt sooooo bad yesterday (back/neck/head)...so I told myself.....at least your feet don't hurt.. Well, guess what!!! Last night, I got the most horrible cramp in the bottom of my foot, that when the muscle spasmed, my foot look totally distorted....So, I intend to be extremely careful about my thoughts from here on out!!! :D

The buddy list, yes I am sure PM is disabled for this board, but the people you add to your list, will show either on or offline when you pull up your list...so instead of wondering who is here, that you know, you can just check that...It works for me!!! I tried to read the instructions on PM yesterday, and could not even come close to comprehending it...Maybe I will try again later today!! But, I am not above asking either, if that is what it takes. I think it would be kinda nice at times.. :)

J-
J-

No I haven't used the razor, well, sorta. I used an electric trimmer just so it would look almost intentional as opposed to hung over for over a week. So I will have the angry artist thing in full effect by morning. I really have no choice, my complexion is all wierd now too. I hope that doesn't last. Right now I couldn't pull off clean cut if my life depended on it. I'm eternally grateful I don't have to deal with this while doing full time office job thing because I'd die. Those of you who managed that I salute you. Once again, I'm a wuss.

I know what you mean about trying to focus on something positive in the pain. When I woke up yesterday I couldn't even find one thing the pain and RSL was too loud in my head. Over the past 24 hours the RLS seems to have almost disapeared with only a mild bit a bed. That is by far the worst symptom, especially in the early days. Oh man I never want to go through that again. It is nice to be in a sitting or laying position for a while and not be flipping around every 5 seconds. I just wish I could tell if my back pain was withdrawal or ACTUAL pain. I suppose it is unrealistic to expect no pain considering how I got this way, but I'd like to avoid seeing a new doctor until I've finished the withdrawal just to remove the possibility of being written a script for something and accepting it. Why even play with fire? So I'm waiting this out before I address a new doctor and my post-detox/post-narcotic pain management if I need it.

How've you been dealing with your normal pain by the way? Have you address that whole thing with your doctor?


Large

I definitely hear ya about the flopping around bed...and just being thankful for the ability to lay in one place for more than 5 secs...I just hate that!!and...having experience with what you are coming off of, I am here to tell you, the RLS is much worse with yours, than with oxys...at least for me..So, we do have that to be thankful for, at the risk of counting my chickens....

Well, I just had one of those moments, where I was forced to pull myself together and go in public...I'm sure because of what I told you earlier...Hubby, comes in the house and wants me to go with him to Lowes, quite out of the ordinary I might add....but because I am trying so hard to "play normal"..I had no choice...It is so bizarre, because I really do feel as if I look like a freak, and everyone can tell what is going on with me...Could be the "cloud" I'm in from no or very little sleep, but then again, at the moment I suppose I do look a little rough....But at least it was Lowes, where everyone looks rough! :) I think the reason he insisted on me going, is because he feels guilty(I won't burden you with the details)...but the man asks me if I'm ok maybe twice a year, and has asked no less than a dozen times already this a.m.??? Oh well, such is life!! I have way too much self absorption and loathing going on to worry too much about anything else right now...

I am having the same difficulty as you, in distinguishing between wd pain and real pain...It has been so long since I had to feel the full weight of it, and it has been so long that it could very well have progressed over the past five yrs. It really does scare me a little, but, if we can get through this...AND WE WILL!!!!! We can deal with anything...I like you, want to make sure that I am far enought past this that there is no chance that i would accept narcotics...there really does have to be another way....So, we will figure that part out when we get there, but I really think that having any level of existing pain, can't make the wds any easier!!!!

Back at ya!!!

Hey, when(and I am assuming here) you post again, why don't you start a new thread, this one is taking forever to load on my comp. for some reason..maybe that will help, since my patience level is in the negative.... :)
Just an idea!!!

J-

He wanted you to go to Lowes? If ever there was a place you could easily say no to without raising eye brows would a hardware store be that place? Now diamond shopping? Well then you've blown you're cover. Still you could probably use the change of scenery anyway. I went for a drive myself, just to get out a bit. While I was out I actually wanted to stay out so I started calling friends to see where they were to met up, but that was a bad idea. I'm not as awake as I think and the driving while talking thing practically got me killed so I ended up heading back earlier than I wanted to.

"burden you with the details" -- yeah because I totally spare you...or something.
Maybe the extended sleep deprivation is worrying him?

Oh crap I started replying before I saw your note about a new thread. Don't you just click last page anyway though? It shouldn't load the whole thing, though your settings could be different than mine. Okay I'll go start one.

Large