painterinlegoff
08-13-2005, 12:06 PM
Hi,
My name is greg i am 33 years old, i live in arkansas...heres my story.
back in 1999 i started experiencing svere pain from my lower back into my left leg, and foot...went to see a gp and he told me it was mucsle spasm nothing to worry about...welll lets move forward to now...i have been thru many pt regiments, massage, traction,hydrotherapy, etc etc. nothing has workedmy ex doc quack finally got the bright idea for a mri...showed three bulging disc and a slighter one neasr s-1...well the dx on that sicatica (sp) no treatment or pain pills was offered even though as i walked out of his office my leg gave out on me and i fell flat on my face which happens nearly all the time, then he prescribes 30 lortab 5mgs one a day (what a joke). he refered me to this pm doc that only believed in trigger point injections and such like that so i did according to the orders hoping for relief...but none came, no pain meds or nothing, so i had to go to the er and they saw my mri report and gave me some hydrocodone 10/500 #40...those helped some, then after that my gp looked at me like was drug seeking, and so did the pm doc...so i said screw the pm doc....by this time my leg i could barely move it...and there was no relief in site for my back at all...heres the catcher, i been having abdominal pain for awhile the gp sent me in for a ultra sound, didnt hear a word bavk from him so i took it in my own hands got an appt with a suregon who ordered a cat scan, the cat scan came back showed me having an enlarged spleen, and non-alcoholic cirehois of the liver, which the gp totally missed, the suregon seeing me in pain ordered me to go to a pm doc. al the time i was thinking this isnt going to work, well day comes i go to the pm doc my back was killing me then, but thats not what i went in for, so he asks about my back, has his nurse call and get a copy of the mri report, comes back in and sits down with me and actualy talks to me, i told him my pain starts from lower back down to the butt to the left leg and foot at times causing it to fall asleep, and at times making me fall to the ground...praise god he didnt yell siatica ..lol...i am going this thursday for a discogram, and lumbar discogram ct....the meds he put me on is msir 15 mgs one every 6 to 8 hrs, and ms contin 30 mgs one every 12 hrs....for the first 10 days it has worked totally no pain but now i am feeling the pain..does that mean im becoming addicted?.......i cant express the pain i feel on here in writing, just to say i am soooo very frightened of it, that at times death would make a better option......sorry i went on and on, someone please read this and respond as to your circumstances
My name is greg i am 33 years old, i live in arkansas...heres my story.
back in 1999 i started experiencing svere pain from my lower back into my left leg, and foot...went to see a gp and he told me it was mucsle spasm nothing to worry about...welll lets move forward to now...i have been thru many pt regiments, massage, traction,hydrotherapy, etc etc. nothing has workedmy ex doc quack finally got the bright idea for a mri...showed three bulging disc and a slighter one neasr s-1...well the dx on that sicatica (sp) no treatment or pain pills was offered even though as i walked out of his office my leg gave out on me and i fell flat on my face which happens nearly all the time, then he prescribes 30 lortab 5mgs one a day (what a joke). he refered me to this pm doc that only believed in trigger point injections and such like that so i did according to the orders hoping for relief...but none came, no pain meds or nothing, so i had to go to the er and they saw my mri report and gave me some hydrocodone 10/500 #40...those helped some, then after that my gp looked at me like was drug seeking, and so did the pm doc...so i said screw the pm doc....by this time my leg i could barely move it...and there was no relief in site for my back at all...heres the catcher, i been having abdominal pain for awhile the gp sent me in for a ultra sound, didnt hear a word bavk from him so i took it in my own hands got an appt with a suregon who ordered a cat scan, the cat scan came back showed me having an enlarged spleen, and non-alcoholic cirehois of the liver, which the gp totally missed, the suregon seeing me in pain ordered me to go to a pm doc. al the time i was thinking this isnt going to work, well day comes i go to the pm doc my back was killing me then, but thats not what i went in for, so he asks about my back, has his nurse call and get a copy of the mri report, comes back in and sits down with me and actualy talks to me, i told him my pain starts from lower back down to the butt to the left leg and foot at times causing it to fall asleep, and at times making me fall to the ground...praise god he didnt yell siatica ..lol...i am going this thursday for a discogram, and lumbar discogram ct....the meds he put me on is msir 15 mgs one every 6 to 8 hrs, and ms contin 30 mgs one every 12 hrs....for the first 10 days it has worked totally no pain but now i am feeling the pain..does that mean im becoming addicted?.......i cant express the pain i feel on here in writing, just to say i am soooo very frightened of it, that at times death would make a better option......sorry i went on and on, someone please read this and respond as to your circumstances
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Josie115
08-13-2005, 09:36 PM
hey..you have found a great group here that will provide you with so much support. understanding you are not alone and hearing others talk about what trails they've taken ...helps. i would say more about my self but am typing with one finger after having just had srgery. others will be along to welcome you and lend support..
erfan
08-13-2005, 11:12 PM
First of all, CP paintirents rarely get addicted. We become dependent omn our meds meaning that if they are cut off, we do suffer withdrawal. We also go through tolerance which means that after a time, the same amount of meds do not work tyo give us the same relief. All thayt means is that we need a dosage increase.
In the initial stages of therapy, it takes time to find the proper dose. That might be why the meds are not working now.
As for the difference between addiction and dependence, addiction is when you crave the drug and do anything to get it, including illegal things. Dependence simply means that your body is used to the meds and will suffer if they are stopped.
In the initial stages of therapy, it takes time to find the proper dose. That might be why the meds are not working now.
As for the difference between addiction and dependence, addiction is when you crave the drug and do anything to get it, including illegal things. Dependence simply means that your body is used to the meds and will suffer if they are stopped.
trowftd3
08-14-2005, 02:15 AM
Yes, do not panic and think you're addicted. It takes time to titrate the right dosage to control your pain. I can understand the fear of the pain!! It is an all controlling thing! Hang in there and keep an open dialogue with your doc. It sounds like you are headed in the right direction.
This is a great group of folks to lend support. You are definitely not alone!
Take care.~Mush
This is a great group of folks to lend support. You are definitely not alone!
Take care.~Mush
mshatch
08-14-2005, 07:43 PM
Hi and welcome. I would like to say that your story sounds all to familiar. What is sounds like to me is that you just may be having a bad day or two. I actually have bad weeks with my meds. Like it was said earlier dont be to worried about addiction if you have a real need for the meds. We all go through the same train of thought where that is concerned. I hope that you get the right help for your problem and I would suggest to stay after the drs because it took me almost a year before any dr believed something was wrong besides pulled muscles. i also went through traction etc. Now I have a whole laundry list of things that were wrong. At that time i had to have c spine surgery bone graft and screws with a plate. But the list does go on. Just to show you how much some of the drs really know. Happy hunting and i wish you speed in finding recovery.
mshatch
mshatch
painterinlegoff
08-14-2005, 10:58 PM
Thank you all who has responded to me and welcomed me here, today has not been a good day, my left leg has given out on me 5 times today, has this happened to anyone on here? with back problems? my name is greg :wave:
the thing that impressed me about this board IS how everyone seems concerend sincerely about each other, which is rare to find now a days :jester:
the thing that impressed me about this board IS how everyone seems concerend sincerely about each other, which is rare to find now a days :jester:
Shoreline
08-15-2005, 01:23 AM
HI Greg, I hate to go over all my history there is just too much, I'v e had 3 back surgeries, the last 2 were fusions, broke thr first set of hardware the last was a reveison of the failed fusion and they extended it from L3-4-5 to L1-S1. That pretty much ended my life as I knew it and left me bed rideem for 9 months untill a PM doc actually treated the pain after 7 years and a dozen PM docs, clinics and work hardening, injections, never blcks, hypnossis, bio feedback, yada yada yada.
I get to long winded so I'll keep it shjort. You have disc problems as seen by a radilogist. The fact the radiologist actually picked that up is somewhat of a miracle. Both my GP and the radiologist they use missed the broken hardware both times I went to them with different sets of broken hardware 3 years apart. I suffered for months due to incompatence and docs practicing outsde their field of best guessing or expertise. :rolleyes:
What sounds totaly rediclous in your case, is you haven't even gotten a surgical opinion. You were sent to pain mnagement before a surgeon got to even look at your Films? That's nuts. GP's and most PM and radiologist are not qualified to decide whether you need surgery or not. Even the radiologist doesn't determine your need for surgery. He looks at anotomy and compares it what should be the norm. The need for surgery should be left up to the surgeon, or at least give him an opportunitty to make a diagnosis based on his years of seeing and fixing these same deformities and problems up close and in person.
So the test ordered will certainly find more info , but a discogram is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. There may be enough in your MRI for a surgeon to actually pick up on the problem and make a decison. Or the surgeon might want to be the one dong the disco, since he would likely be doing the surgery, not the PM or GP. ;)
You also have to get several surgical opinions. They all have their own, and if you need something they aren't qualified to do or even know is available, that option will never make it on the table. Like disc replacement for example.
ie, If you have a disc bulge that can be trimmed through endoscopic surgery, but the surgeon you see doesn't do endoscopic back surgery, he's not going to suggest it. If he's used to doing open surgery, a Laminectomy and discectomy for a bulging disc impingng a nerve, that's exactly what you will get. He's going to weigh the benefit, likelyhood of a good outcome and make a recomendation. A surgeon is the only doc qualified to give you a surgical opinion.
Some docs will cut on anyone, so you need several opinions that confirm the need or lack of need for surgery and to make sure you taking the least minimal surgical aproach to fixing it. Lets say you absolutely need a decompresson of a disc impinging a nerve. You may get 4 or 5 aproaches from very qualied surgeons, but they dn't all learn to fix a problem the same way. Fusions are even more complicated. Do you want cadavor bobne, Bone from your hip or perps a rib resection, What about mixng cadavor and your own marrow and adding BMP "Bio morphic proteins" Would you like it ground up or put in in small chunks, cages to hold that, whatevabout a tapered cage to keep the naural curve of your spine? Anteror, posterior or global "front and back" aproach. Need a bone growth stim" Internal or external? Bracing? There are hundred variables to do a fusion. Which is the right one is the question because there is no absolute concensus. I once met a guy from FLA who they used sea coral as bone material. No kidding.
Ask your PM doc to set up a surgica consult now "for after the diagnostic tests." one with an orthopedic and one with neurosurgeon, Tell him you want his interpretation and the interpretation of at least 2 surgeons, "from the guys that should actually make surgical decisions"
It's kind of like your GP sending you to the pshych hospital because you arer mildly depressed and haven't even seen a psychiatrist. AT least at the psych hospital you will get to see a shrink, but you haven't even seen anyone qualified to determine the future of your entire life.
IF you have that gut feeling something is really wrong, Like when you smack your face on the ground each time you fall, demand a surgical consult.
Yes I have fallen, I have crapped myself on a speed bump, I have had surgeons tell me I just need to ride a bike after telling them those things. I would be bed ridden wearng a diaper if I believed what he said. Fortunately the Urologist he sent me to for incontinance at the age of 29 had enough sense to send me to a Neurosurgeon that did things like check reflexes, watch my gait and interpret his own films. I have yet to meet a surgeon that gave a radiologist report more than 15 seconds before filing it in the round file.
What a radiologist thinks, is just information to be considered when looking at the big picture, GP's and PM's are even less qalified to read an MRI.The radilogist doesn't know you fall down on a leg that gives out, or you had to sell you car with a clutch because you couldn't lift your leg. Or anything more than the referring docs, suspected DX.
For The big guys sake, see a surgeon and see several, OS and NS. You don't want to jack your tolerance through the roof, if your first surgical consult asks you how often you lose bowel control based on what he sees in an MRI. They will show you exacty what's wrong, if they don't just ask or demand to see what he's talking about. Tolerance is all that you are expereincing, but most surgeons are used to the standard 2 5mg percocets managing post op pain. SO you just end up hurting more becaus PM was the only thing offered and acked your toleranc above the averge post op patients..
IF you know you have a group of docs that won't dispute what any doc he refers you too says, then somtimes you have to get outside that group of docs. If there is a way to fix it, it's beter than any amount of pain management or medication they could possibly prescribe. The longer you live with it, the less likely surgery will relive all your pain and other problems. Did they even check your reflexes?
You can continue your pain managment treament and still get as many surgical opinions as you can possibly find. If you find one that sounds reasonable, then keep looking for one that thinks the same and ask questions, if they think X aproach to surgery will fix it, ask why is this beter than Y aproach? You have to knock docs off that pedestal and be pro active, ask questions and don't let one or two docs condemn you to a life of chronic pain and being dependent on opiates. Dependnece is just a physcaical thing that happens. Addiction is psychological.
I have never seen addiction improve anyones quality of life. But simply being dependent on opiates if there is no other answer can impove quality of life and that aint addiction.
Welcome and good luck, Dave
I get to long winded so I'll keep it shjort. You have disc problems as seen by a radilogist. The fact the radiologist actually picked that up is somewhat of a miracle. Both my GP and the radiologist they use missed the broken hardware both times I went to them with different sets of broken hardware 3 years apart. I suffered for months due to incompatence and docs practicing outsde their field of best guessing or expertise. :rolleyes:
What sounds totaly rediclous in your case, is you haven't even gotten a surgical opinion. You were sent to pain mnagement before a surgeon got to even look at your Films? That's nuts. GP's and most PM and radiologist are not qualified to decide whether you need surgery or not. Even the radiologist doesn't determine your need for surgery. He looks at anotomy and compares it what should be the norm. The need for surgery should be left up to the surgeon, or at least give him an opportunitty to make a diagnosis based on his years of seeing and fixing these same deformities and problems up close and in person.
So the test ordered will certainly find more info , but a discogram is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. There may be enough in your MRI for a surgeon to actually pick up on the problem and make a decison. Or the surgeon might want to be the one dong the disco, since he would likely be doing the surgery, not the PM or GP. ;)
You also have to get several surgical opinions. They all have their own, and if you need something they aren't qualified to do or even know is available, that option will never make it on the table. Like disc replacement for example.
ie, If you have a disc bulge that can be trimmed through endoscopic surgery, but the surgeon you see doesn't do endoscopic back surgery, he's not going to suggest it. If he's used to doing open surgery, a Laminectomy and discectomy for a bulging disc impingng a nerve, that's exactly what you will get. He's going to weigh the benefit, likelyhood of a good outcome and make a recomendation. A surgeon is the only doc qualified to give you a surgical opinion.
Some docs will cut on anyone, so you need several opinions that confirm the need or lack of need for surgery and to make sure you taking the least minimal surgical aproach to fixing it. Lets say you absolutely need a decompresson of a disc impinging a nerve. You may get 4 or 5 aproaches from very qualied surgeons, but they dn't all learn to fix a problem the same way. Fusions are even more complicated. Do you want cadavor bobne, Bone from your hip or perps a rib resection, What about mixng cadavor and your own marrow and adding BMP "Bio morphic proteins" Would you like it ground up or put in in small chunks, cages to hold that, whatevabout a tapered cage to keep the naural curve of your spine? Anteror, posterior or global "front and back" aproach. Need a bone growth stim" Internal or external? Bracing? There are hundred variables to do a fusion. Which is the right one is the question because there is no absolute concensus. I once met a guy from FLA who they used sea coral as bone material. No kidding.
Ask your PM doc to set up a surgica consult now "for after the diagnostic tests." one with an orthopedic and one with neurosurgeon, Tell him you want his interpretation and the interpretation of at least 2 surgeons, "from the guys that should actually make surgical decisions"
It's kind of like your GP sending you to the pshych hospital because you arer mildly depressed and haven't even seen a psychiatrist. AT least at the psych hospital you will get to see a shrink, but you haven't even seen anyone qualified to determine the future of your entire life.
IF you have that gut feeling something is really wrong, Like when you smack your face on the ground each time you fall, demand a surgical consult.
Yes I have fallen, I have crapped myself on a speed bump, I have had surgeons tell me I just need to ride a bike after telling them those things. I would be bed ridden wearng a diaper if I believed what he said. Fortunately the Urologist he sent me to for incontinance at the age of 29 had enough sense to send me to a Neurosurgeon that did things like check reflexes, watch my gait and interpret his own films. I have yet to meet a surgeon that gave a radiologist report more than 15 seconds before filing it in the round file.
What a radiologist thinks, is just information to be considered when looking at the big picture, GP's and PM's are even less qalified to read an MRI.The radilogist doesn't know you fall down on a leg that gives out, or you had to sell you car with a clutch because you couldn't lift your leg. Or anything more than the referring docs, suspected DX.
For The big guys sake, see a surgeon and see several, OS and NS. You don't want to jack your tolerance through the roof, if your first surgical consult asks you how often you lose bowel control based on what he sees in an MRI. They will show you exacty what's wrong, if they don't just ask or demand to see what he's talking about. Tolerance is all that you are expereincing, but most surgeons are used to the standard 2 5mg percocets managing post op pain. SO you just end up hurting more becaus PM was the only thing offered and acked your toleranc above the averge post op patients..
IF you know you have a group of docs that won't dispute what any doc he refers you too says, then somtimes you have to get outside that group of docs. If there is a way to fix it, it's beter than any amount of pain management or medication they could possibly prescribe. The longer you live with it, the less likely surgery will relive all your pain and other problems. Did they even check your reflexes?
You can continue your pain managment treament and still get as many surgical opinions as you can possibly find. If you find one that sounds reasonable, then keep looking for one that thinks the same and ask questions, if they think X aproach to surgery will fix it, ask why is this beter than Y aproach? You have to knock docs off that pedestal and be pro active, ask questions and don't let one or two docs condemn you to a life of chronic pain and being dependent on opiates. Dependnece is just a physcaical thing that happens. Addiction is psychological.
I have never seen addiction improve anyones quality of life. But simply being dependent on opiates if there is no other answer can impove quality of life and that aint addiction.
Welcome and good luck, Dave
painterinlegoff
08-15-2005, 02:37 AM
what is the difference between a discogram, and a lumbar discogram ct? are these two different tests or just one?