shawley
08-17-2005, 09:31 AM
Hi , Ever here of a nonunion of the fusion ? What options are there for this ? I have tried ESI Facet injections. None worked . New doctor say's surgery . My prior doctor told me nothing wrong. So I went to a OSS . He's the one who said I had a nonunion. Thats why my screw has broken. The bone never healed.
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Shoreline
08-17-2005, 01:54 PM
Oh yeah, I have heard of non union and have 5 levelsthat never fsed. The hardwareholds things in place untill it snaps. No hardare is designed to bear your weight forever, If a fusion is succesful all the weight is taken off the hardware. But in early Xrays they base a succesful fusion on flexion and extension Xrays, as long as the hardware holds things in place they say everything is fine.
Once screw heads start shearing off and screws toggle in holes you start to get more and more movement, crunching, grinding, squeking and pain. My second surgery was a fusion, L3-4- 5, I sheared off both screws at l5 and crushed the nerves. They went back in and the screws at l3 were both damaged and the discs above and below were shredded. The doc said the old fusion materal flaked out like dried fish.
They went in to revise the fusion and I woke up 11 hours later fused from
L1-S1 and this fusion has failed, 90% non union, hardware is already broken, Screws toggle in the holes in my scarum and I crunch grind and squeek with every step.
I now have grade 2 spondiliothesis where everything above my sacrum has shifted 50% off S1. If it continues It could topple completely off my sacum and shear nerve roots, sever spinal cord and the aorta and iliac arteries that split off right at L5-S1.
Ask for flooscopy of you flexing and extending, they can check for instability/spondyliothesis and know what kind of risk your at if you do nothing.
It's not going to get better with anything other than surgery, it wll continue to deterioate untill you break more hardware and the pain can't be continously managed because it continues to get worse and when it shifts or grinds it sends a jolt through my body. Even with the pump and agressive increases, The best relief I'm getting now is abou 40% which is slowly declining. What levels are we talking about? Cervicle options are a little different. Those discs are so small you can sponatnously fuse from bone rubbing bone, because once the hardware snaps nothing is keeping the disc gaps open. That's actually a good thing.You develop arthritic spurs, discogenic pain returns, nerve pain returns, etc etc.
You can brace to protect the area, live with it untill you can't manage the pain any longer or revise it which usually means lenghtening because of the exsiting hardware, inability to remove screw tips,stress already put on the vertabrea and I forgot vertebral fractures that occur when only one screw in a vertabrea is broken and all the weight bearing is shifted to one side. That can split a vertabrea like a log. You may need Crosslinking to prevent twsiting, but it all depends on what levels are involved.. More to come about revisions after I know what levels.
Really sorry, There is a web site out there called Pedicle screwed. That's nothing but failed hardware and snapped screws and what follows.
Take care, Dave
Once screw heads start shearing off and screws toggle in holes you start to get more and more movement, crunching, grinding, squeking and pain. My second surgery was a fusion, L3-4- 5, I sheared off both screws at l5 and crushed the nerves. They went back in and the screws at l3 were both damaged and the discs above and below were shredded. The doc said the old fusion materal flaked out like dried fish.
They went in to revise the fusion and I woke up 11 hours later fused from
L1-S1 and this fusion has failed, 90% non union, hardware is already broken, Screws toggle in the holes in my scarum and I crunch grind and squeek with every step.
I now have grade 2 spondiliothesis where everything above my sacrum has shifted 50% off S1. If it continues It could topple completely off my sacum and shear nerve roots, sever spinal cord and the aorta and iliac arteries that split off right at L5-S1.
Ask for flooscopy of you flexing and extending, they can check for instability/spondyliothesis and know what kind of risk your at if you do nothing.
It's not going to get better with anything other than surgery, it wll continue to deterioate untill you break more hardware and the pain can't be continously managed because it continues to get worse and when it shifts or grinds it sends a jolt through my body. Even with the pump and agressive increases, The best relief I'm getting now is abou 40% which is slowly declining. What levels are we talking about? Cervicle options are a little different. Those discs are so small you can sponatnously fuse from bone rubbing bone, because once the hardware snaps nothing is keeping the disc gaps open. That's actually a good thing.You develop arthritic spurs, discogenic pain returns, nerve pain returns, etc etc.
You can brace to protect the area, live with it untill you can't manage the pain any longer or revise it which usually means lenghtening because of the exsiting hardware, inability to remove screw tips,stress already put on the vertabrea and I forgot vertebral fractures that occur when only one screw in a vertabrea is broken and all the weight bearing is shifted to one side. That can split a vertabrea like a log. You may need Crosslinking to prevent twsiting, but it all depends on what levels are involved.. More to come about revisions after I know what levels.
Really sorry, There is a web site out there called Pedicle screwed. That's nothing but failed hardware and snapped screws and what follows.
Take care, Dave
feelbad
08-18-2005, 09:28 AM
My fusion did not take but it took me MANY months of pain and agony to finally convince my NS that something was not right.and the CT and MRIs that i had did not help my case at all as i was told that yes, I had fused.Well my neck was doin this snap crackle pop thing and whenever i would move my neck into certain positions i would feel instant pain along with this horrid grinding of the bone noise.it was not until he finally sent me for a simple flexion and extention x ray that he FINALLY was convinced that I had a non fusion.boy,all of the sudden(after spending the entire summer and part of the fall back at work with basically a broken neck)hes like ,"well, we need to get this resolved asap I am scheduling your surgery for the next week".I just could not believe what I had to go through,(and his nurse was an absolute bit** during my many phone calls regarding wierd symptoms and ever increasing pain and request for refills on my pain meds which i deperately needed)just to prove to this man that my fusion never took.i know that it finally fused as after my last surgery(from absolute hell) my new NS told me that he actually visualized the fusion.i wish the NS had placed the hardware the first time around just in case this had happened.
Unfortunetly, I do believe that another surgery is going to be your only choice here really.Espescially since they were actually giving you ESIs.the steroids actually will prevent bone fusion from happening.i hope this all gets resolved as painlessly as possible for you.at least YOUR doc believed YOU,and believe me, that helps alot!Good luck and please keep us posted on how things go,K?Marcia
Unfortunetly, I do believe that another surgery is going to be your only choice here really.Espescially since they were actually giving you ESIs.the steroids actually will prevent bone fusion from happening.i hope this all gets resolved as painlessly as possible for you.at least YOUR doc believed YOU,and believe me, that helps alot!Good luck and please keep us posted on how things go,K?Marcia
Shoreline
08-18-2005, 01:02 PM
Hey Marcia, I know what you went through with the docs disbelief, as if admitting a fusion failed was somehow their fault. I wasn't tryng to blame anyone, just let them know something was wrong. However untill they could see broken harware I go the same line about how stable my fusion was for 18 months..right up untill hardware started snapping. I'm glad your second attempt was succesful and your dong better now. You absolutely right about steroidsd preventing fusions, even NSAIds are a no no during post op recovery the first 6 months.
Take care, Dave
Take care, Dave
shawley
08-24-2005, 09:20 AM
My NS told me there was nothing wrong with me for 9 months . Thanks to a friend on the message boards, She hooked me up with a awsome OSS . He told me right off the bat I had a nonunion with a broken pedical screw. I go in Oct,17 for surgery to get this fixed . Shoreline I cant find pedical screwed anywhere .
feelbad
08-24-2005, 09:47 AM
It just goes to show ya that if you 'feel' something is not right or feels just wrong,keep pushin it til you finally get SOMEONE to notice.It really does not help that the radiology all stated that I was fused(i gotta wonder if anyone can actually really know without actually visualizing the actual area in another surgery like in my case)if two seperate radiologists and an NS can state that that a fusion has actually taken place by looking at the actual films when there really isn't one, do you think that maybe they really cannot tell and everyone is getting a best guess?It really makes you wonder just how many people out there are actually running around doing all kinds of stuff that were told by their docs that eveything is fine when in reality they have broken necks?Scarey but sadly you know it is happening.god if i had not kept pushing this i would have assumed everything was just hunky dory(despite the nasty symptoms,"just live with it")and gotten back on fire trucks again and with all that is involved in firefighting,god who knows what nasty things could have happened,all because my NS assumed I had fused.ooo, shudder!!(lawsuit??)if you have ANY sort of doubts about any fusions, push it til you know for sure.Marcia
shawley
08-24-2005, 10:59 AM
Feelbad, I know whats ya mean. Just live with it ! Yeah right . When my NS told me there was nothing wrong . I was sure he was wrong ,Because I could'nt live with this pain . My brand new Orthopedic spine SPECIALIST...caught it right away . He was upset that my neurosurgeon didnt address it with me. Maybe by April I can get back to work and my life. Workers Comp stinks.
severe pain
08-25-2005, 01:54 AM
ok new to this board but have to ask somewhere
had emergency surgery of c6 c7 c8 a year and a half ago since that date i have been in more pain then ever before. it has become agony to hold my head up there is audible crunching a bone curdaling popping on the neck.
one side of my neck is a big lump don,t know how else to explain this.
my lower jaw " chin area" is still knumb had another mir done " everything is fine"
been told that it will take a few years to heal by the neurosurgeon who skipped town. my neck actually gets stuck in certain positions. has anyone had similar experiance let me know what you have done thanks.
had emergency surgery of c6 c7 c8 a year and a half ago since that date i have been in more pain then ever before. it has become agony to hold my head up there is audible crunching a bone curdaling popping on the neck.
one side of my neck is a big lump don,t know how else to explain this.
my lower jaw " chin area" is still knumb had another mir done " everything is fine"
been told that it will take a few years to heal by the neurosurgeon who skipped town. my neck actually gets stuck in certain positions. has anyone had similar experiance let me know what you have done thanks.
shawley
08-25-2005, 08:42 AM
severe pain , If I were you I would get another opinion from another doctor . Sounds like you have some problems . I would'nt wait to long either .
feelbad
08-25-2005, 09:28 AM
Please see another neurosurgeon for a full neuro eval and MRI.the neck getting stuck in one position thing was also a big symptom I had that I completely forgot about until i read your post.This would happen every single time that i bent my head backwards.it actually felt like the boney part of the back of the spinal column(i forget what the name of those bones are??)were like kind of catching on each other.i am also wondering if your previous NS actually told you that he fused the c 6-8 as you do not have a c -8 vertebrae,only a c 8 nerve.either way, this guy sounds like he really didn't know just what the hell he was doing in there.you really really do need this all evaluated by an NS who will actually take the time to really look at the area for all possible problems.If you are not actually fused(among other things that it sounds like you have going on in there)you are at very high risk of suffering some pretty devistating injury from any sort of sudden jarring type movement as you are walking around with what amounts to an actual broken neck!even the force of having to slam on your brakes while driving at like 30mph could cause a possible dissection of your spinal cord.There are just wayyy too many possible nightmares that could come from what is going on in there if your neck did not actually fuse.and, if you did not have any sort of hardware installed for stability all of the risks would be much higher.Please find a new NS as soon as you can.i know how you feel, trust me.My whole situation just sucked and it really was scaring the crap out of me until I was finally back in surgery getting the hardware placement.you need to get that neck stabilized as soon as possible.I am not trying to freak you out here,really, just letting you know that this needs immediate attention as the risks to you are very high right now.i hope you can see someone soon.just an FYI here.If you talk with your primary doc about the referral you will most likely need, ask him to actually talk with this new NS about your current status and the extreme pain you are suffering.most "specialists"offices will have time set aside in there appt schedules for more 'emergent" type cases but you cannot get one if you are calling to set up the appt yourself,only through your doc.i have a feeling,just in my past experience that when you call you will most likely end up with an appt that is anywhere from a few weeks to two months for new patients.Having your doc secure you an appt will get you seen much sooner than you would on your own.Just a suggestion for you.Been through this kind of crap with many different types of specialists.good luck and i hope things can be taken care of with a limited amont of nightmares for you.please keep us posted on what you find out.marcia
severe pain
08-25-2005, 12:24 PM
tanks for the quick response`s
sorry c5 c6 c7 yes titainim plate was put in " cage"
but i did go that rout been back to the nerosugeon but now he has moved state side.
my question is has anyone had this op done and how long did it take for the symptoms to go away.
as for the jarrying thats an everday thing i drive a forklift.
sorry c5 c6 c7 yes titainim plate was put in " cage"
but i did go that rout been back to the nerosugeon but now he has moved state side.
my question is has anyone had this op done and how long did it take for the symptoms to go away.
as for the jarrying thats an everday thing i drive a forklift.
shawley
08-25-2005, 05:36 PM
Severe pain , I dont know about a neurosurgeon, I had L4-L5 fused and the fusion never healed . My neurosurgeon told me I was ok, That I should go get nerve Blocks, I could'nt live with that answer, SO I went to see a Orthopedic Spine Specialist . Soon as he seen my MRI he told me . I had a nonunion, That caused my screw to snap because there was no solid bone holding it. Now I am going for surgery in Oct. But hey . Anyone could make that mistake...Yeah right .