tracer
08-18-2005, 03:16 PM
i went to pm doc after a 30 day wait and he give me nerotin witch did nothing and had me take a drug test to see if was a crack head or somthing :eek: said he couldnt rx any narcotics till after drug screen,i was like *** if i was a drugy i wouldnt need u id get drugs from street and use them as i see fit :confused: i can barley walk and he agreed that i may have reruptured and oedered a mri.i took 2 nerotin and they didnt touch the siatic pain nor did they make me sleepy.i got my doc to call in some norco 10 witch helped a little but relief is so short lived im ready to cut my leg off it hurts that bad at times.now i just wait and hope for some relief soon :confused:
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jdlfmc
08-19-2005, 07:33 PM
HI, Neurontin is a medication that you have to slowly build up in your body to get to work it is actually a anti-seizure medication that is used for nerve pain they aren't sure how it works but it is known to help with nerve pain.
As I said you have to slowly build it up in your body and you shouldn't just up amd stop taking it with out talking to your dr.Good Luck
Linda
As I said you have to slowly build it up in your body and you shouldn't just up amd stop taking it with out talking to your dr.Good Luck
Linda
tracer
08-22-2005, 08:23 PM
i havent stopped takeing them and they finally helped my leg pain but nothing for back pain or foot pain.thing is doc said take at bed time cuz will make me zzz but....they wake me up like a super strong pot of coffee and im just mad after takeing them i fell like i wanna go attack the tree in my front yard but then when i move my back makes me wanna be still and just shoot the tree from a distance lol.well i see pm doc again on the 31 maybe he will come up with somthing.
jdlfmc
08-23-2005, 12:47 AM
tracer, try and keep a pain journal and be sure and let the pm know what is going on, I know I have had a lot of trouble with the anti-seizure meds causing me to have problems with anger and rage and other side effects that have caused me to have to keep changing looking for one that helps without so many side effects, aslo the meds wil only help the nerve pain such as what your having in your leg not the pain that your having in your back.
Linda
Linda
Shoreline
08-24-2005, 12:26 AM
Hi Tracer, Thereis no gaurenteed med that will relieve all your pain. PArticularly neurontin. Tey usually start you with a dose at bed time thne add one in the morning then one in the afternoon. You slowly keep increasing the dose untill you get max reief with tolerabl side effects. Some folks take up to 3600 mgs of Neurontin a day. But if the side effect of that one are too unbearable, there are at least a dozen others you can try and play with the dose and hopefully they will add in some other meds that will also help.
Nerve pain, like the leg pain your experiencing is the hardest to manage. No pill will unimpinge a nerve. So even with morphine laying in your lazyboy, that nerve is still being crushed and a pill won't do it all. At best expect relief tha allows you to function and think about something other than how much you hurt. Neurontin not working after one or 2 dose increases is very common. The concerning thingis the opposte effect it seems to have, rather than being sedated, agitiation sounds like it's not the right med for ya.
When they start using other meds for off label purposes, testing, clinical trials, it's effect on soeone without seizures is very questionable. But PM means you are a guinea pig untill they find the right med, the right dose, the right way to get it in you and the right interval between doses. There is just so much more to it than you knw morphine kills pain so give me some. 30 mgs of morphne may not touch the leg pain without the help of meds like neurontin or Toppamax or on eof the antidepressants or you simply mght need surgery. I have had 3 surgeries fail, broke 2 sets of hardware and had 2 fusions fail, but I idd wake up from each surgery with the nerves unimpinged and that leg pain gone. It ruined my back to the point of not being able to stand more than 20 minutes, but at least my legs aren't on fire or in buckets of freezing water.
Unfortunately without significant neurological damage, loss of bowel, bladde, reflexes, or foot drop, The general concensus is that nobody every died from pain. Plenty killl themself and have heart atacks, but even the road to surgery when it's obvious through an MRI doesn't mean they won't try other things first and it's all trial and error. Epidural strids, PT, trigger point injections, nerve blocks, etc. Your age, our level of incapacity, loss of muscle and reflexes are all part of the decision to operate or even treat pain.
If it was as easy to get pain meds and have insurance pay for them, there wouldn't be a need for illegal drugs. Drug testing, Pain management contracts, psych testing, mandatory counseling are all part of pain managemnt. Being unwilling to comply at any step could potentially end the relationship with a doc that would have gotten around to prescribing or finding something that works. If someone hurts bad enogh they will try anything. If someone simply wants drugs, they will simply move on to the next doc looking for that soft touch that will give you morphine simply because you say your in pain.
I have no reason to doubt your pain, but a docs licence and livelyhood and the pressure from the DEA and those few patients that really have legit pain complaints but can't comply with instructions and the ones that simply abuse meds make it tough on everyone. In the pain management world, a 30 day supply means a 30 day supply, not a 28 or 26, It's 30 or you don't pick up another script.
Last fall and winter the DEA manadated that all PM docs do random UA's, Not just to look for illegal drugs, but moreso to ensure the drugs preescribed are being taken and not sold for 10 or 20 bucks a pill.
They manadated docs see each patient on a monthly basis even if they have jumped through every hoop over 7 years and finally found something that works. Each patient must still be seen monthly.I have a pump that goes 85 days between refills and still must be seen monthly.
If the docs don't comply , a simple investigation, no charges, no warrents, no probable cause, can shut a doc down for months and send every patient into withdrawal looking for someone else to treat them or having to turn to meth clinics or rehab where they are told an addict is an addict and there is no difference betwen simple physical dependence and addiction.
If someone finds a fast track to pain meds without all the other crap involved, it's lkely that doc won't be in practice long. So in one aspect, the more crap your doc puts you through, the safer he is and the less likely you are to show up for an apt an find yellow tape across his door.
For many people the only option is pain meds or long acting pain meds so physical dependence is inevatable. If you take pain meds every day for months, you become physically dependent, you will experience withdrawal if you discontinue abruptly, but when this dependnece improves the quality of someones life it's hard to call it addiction. I've yet to meet an addict whose drug of choice improved their quality of life.
Medcine is a practice, and your the one they are practicing on. :yikes:
Good luck, Dave
Nerve pain, like the leg pain your experiencing is the hardest to manage. No pill will unimpinge a nerve. So even with morphine laying in your lazyboy, that nerve is still being crushed and a pill won't do it all. At best expect relief tha allows you to function and think about something other than how much you hurt. Neurontin not working after one or 2 dose increases is very common. The concerning thingis the opposte effect it seems to have, rather than being sedated, agitiation sounds like it's not the right med for ya.
When they start using other meds for off label purposes, testing, clinical trials, it's effect on soeone without seizures is very questionable. But PM means you are a guinea pig untill they find the right med, the right dose, the right way to get it in you and the right interval between doses. There is just so much more to it than you knw morphine kills pain so give me some. 30 mgs of morphne may not touch the leg pain without the help of meds like neurontin or Toppamax or on eof the antidepressants or you simply mght need surgery. I have had 3 surgeries fail, broke 2 sets of hardware and had 2 fusions fail, but I idd wake up from each surgery with the nerves unimpinged and that leg pain gone. It ruined my back to the point of not being able to stand more than 20 minutes, but at least my legs aren't on fire or in buckets of freezing water.
Unfortunately without significant neurological damage, loss of bowel, bladde, reflexes, or foot drop, The general concensus is that nobody every died from pain. Plenty killl themself and have heart atacks, but even the road to surgery when it's obvious through an MRI doesn't mean they won't try other things first and it's all trial and error. Epidural strids, PT, trigger point injections, nerve blocks, etc. Your age, our level of incapacity, loss of muscle and reflexes are all part of the decision to operate or even treat pain.
If it was as easy to get pain meds and have insurance pay for them, there wouldn't be a need for illegal drugs. Drug testing, Pain management contracts, psych testing, mandatory counseling are all part of pain managemnt. Being unwilling to comply at any step could potentially end the relationship with a doc that would have gotten around to prescribing or finding something that works. If someone hurts bad enogh they will try anything. If someone simply wants drugs, they will simply move on to the next doc looking for that soft touch that will give you morphine simply because you say your in pain.
I have no reason to doubt your pain, but a docs licence and livelyhood and the pressure from the DEA and those few patients that really have legit pain complaints but can't comply with instructions and the ones that simply abuse meds make it tough on everyone. In the pain management world, a 30 day supply means a 30 day supply, not a 28 or 26, It's 30 or you don't pick up another script.
Last fall and winter the DEA manadated that all PM docs do random UA's, Not just to look for illegal drugs, but moreso to ensure the drugs preescribed are being taken and not sold for 10 or 20 bucks a pill.
They manadated docs see each patient on a monthly basis even if they have jumped through every hoop over 7 years and finally found something that works. Each patient must still be seen monthly.I have a pump that goes 85 days between refills and still must be seen monthly.
If the docs don't comply , a simple investigation, no charges, no warrents, no probable cause, can shut a doc down for months and send every patient into withdrawal looking for someone else to treat them or having to turn to meth clinics or rehab where they are told an addict is an addict and there is no difference betwen simple physical dependence and addiction.
If someone finds a fast track to pain meds without all the other crap involved, it's lkely that doc won't be in practice long. So in one aspect, the more crap your doc puts you through, the safer he is and the less likely you are to show up for an apt an find yellow tape across his door.
For many people the only option is pain meds or long acting pain meds so physical dependence is inevatable. If you take pain meds every day for months, you become physically dependent, you will experience withdrawal if you discontinue abruptly, but when this dependnece improves the quality of someones life it's hard to call it addiction. I've yet to meet an addict whose drug of choice improved their quality of life.
Medcine is a practice, and your the one they are practicing on. :yikes:
Good luck, Dave
tracer
08-27-2005, 08:37 AM
hmm well i dont and hope to never take morphine but i have had good results with small doses of hydrocodine over the last year.and i never take it as much as precribed its not nessary it says 1 every 4-6 hrs i take 1 half every 4 hrs.all i know is i hurt and want relief,imm off narcotics now no withdrawal at all after takeing them over a year but the gabitril has more side effects i know it makes me hyper and agressive my wife says it makes me sorta wacky but i really dont notice this.and it helps my leg pain some but nothing for foot or back.iv been takeing 6 bc a day for back pain its all that helps tried all other otc meds doctors cry dont take it but i have little choice atm im not just gonna lay around if he dont want me takeing bc all day he can rx a pain med like norco 5 or somthing if not he shouldnt cry cuz i take bc,im not gonna suffer if i dont have too.well laters.
Fancylady
08-27-2005, 09:45 AM
Hi Tracer, :wave:
I too take Neurontin, but it doesn't take care of all the leg pain. If I walk OR if I stand very long my left thigh goes numb. If I ignore this, the pain sets in like you wouldn't believe it. Well maybe you would believe me! I take 2400mg
of Neurontin daily & have been told that is about the limit, for me. I also can take Hydorcodone evey 4 to 6 hrs, like you. Nothing works if I'm in big time pain. I hope something works for all of us soon, don't you? It will soon be 15
yrs., that I've have back problems.
Shoreline--Are you a Dr. or a pharmacist? You seem to have a weath of info.
I try to learn all I can about the meds I take, because of the side effects. Some on the boards seem to think Neurontin triggers weight gain. I know I'm heaver now, than I've ever been. I'm always hungry and this wasn't my nature before Neurontin.
Linda, you have been a great help to me. I wish you the best. It helps to know others are willing to help, because they have walked where you walk!
Maybe they will come out with something yet, that will help you also.
God Bless, Billie
I too take Neurontin, but it doesn't take care of all the leg pain. If I walk OR if I stand very long my left thigh goes numb. If I ignore this, the pain sets in like you wouldn't believe it. Well maybe you would believe me! I take 2400mg
of Neurontin daily & have been told that is about the limit, for me. I also can take Hydorcodone evey 4 to 6 hrs, like you. Nothing works if I'm in big time pain. I hope something works for all of us soon, don't you? It will soon be 15
yrs., that I've have back problems.
Shoreline--Are you a Dr. or a pharmacist? You seem to have a weath of info.
I try to learn all I can about the meds I take, because of the side effects. Some on the boards seem to think Neurontin triggers weight gain. I know I'm heaver now, than I've ever been. I'm always hungry and this wasn't my nature before Neurontin.
Linda, you have been a great help to me. I wish you the best. It helps to know others are willing to help, because they have walked where you walk!
Maybe they will come out with something yet, that will help you also.
God Bless, Billie
feelbad
08-27-2005, 09:46 AM
just a thought here,strictly my opinion as you know your body better than i do,but is it possible that the symptoms you may be having that you are attributing to solely neurontin may actually be WD symptoms?just wondering because most people DO indeed experience at least some sort of WD symptoms after being on any sort of narcotic over a years time that is suddenly stopped.Don't know about the 'wanting to attack that tree though,lol,i did have a really hilarious picture in my mind when i read that,thanks for the chuckle there.i really don't understand just why this doc is making you go 30 flippin days without any sort of pain meds.i mean geez, it does not take anywhere near 30 days to get the actual results of any lab test for other drugs in your system.it would have been really nice of him to say to come back in a week or even two weeks to discuss the results and if everything checks out he could start you with SOMETHING.i guess he doesn't really understand that we just cannot put our pain on 'hold" for a month just by telling it to ya know?i hope you get some real relief soon.hang in there.marcia
Shoreline
08-29-2005, 11:35 AM
Hi Billie, No I'm not a doc but have been doing he PM thing for 12 years. The best source for med info is he full prescribing info. Every manufacturer has a web site and will list their products and there will likely be a link to the full prescribing info. The same info they put in a PDR and submit to the FDA. You need Adobe acrobat reader to veiw most full prescribing info, but you don't want to scare yourself with evry possible or reported side effect. Weigt gain is fairly common with nerontin and many of the antidepressants and other anti seizure meds. It's also hard not to atribute some weight gain to less activity, if activity increases your level of pain.
My brother is PhD/ medical reseacher and has helped alot and given me acces to most sites that are restricted to those only in the industry, so I may be able to navigate through the medical internet community a little easier than others or those sites that require meberships or fees.
Just start putting together a list of the manufacturer web sites of the meds you take or the ones you want to know more about, it not only allows you to access the Full prescribing info but keep up on what's new and in clinical trials by the particular pharmacuetical company.
As far as side effects go, you can experience things that aren't listed. Nothing erks me more than reporting a side effect and some NP looks in a little pamphlet and says it's not listed as one so it can't be happening. :rolleyes: We do know our bodies a little better than that.
We also have to listen to our spouses if they notice changes that we may not, particluarly personality changes, mood changes, and things we may do in our sleep we may not be aware of. Myoclonus "twitching, jerking, restless leg may not be something you are aware of alone, but your spoue likley knows when they are woken by legs jerking or body twitching, etc. We may simply atribute something to being in pain and having a bad day, but it may actually be linked to starting a new med and the onset traced back to when we started that med. So don't dismiss all their input thinking they simply don't understand. We may not be aware of the impact a med is having on us.
Take care. Dave
My brother is PhD/ medical reseacher and has helped alot and given me acces to most sites that are restricted to those only in the industry, so I may be able to navigate through the medical internet community a little easier than others or those sites that require meberships or fees.
Just start putting together a list of the manufacturer web sites of the meds you take or the ones you want to know more about, it not only allows you to access the Full prescribing info but keep up on what's new and in clinical trials by the particular pharmacuetical company.
As far as side effects go, you can experience things that aren't listed. Nothing erks me more than reporting a side effect and some NP looks in a little pamphlet and says it's not listed as one so it can't be happening. :rolleyes: We do know our bodies a little better than that.
We also have to listen to our spouses if they notice changes that we may not, particluarly personality changes, mood changes, and things we may do in our sleep we may not be aware of. Myoclonus "twitching, jerking, restless leg may not be something you are aware of alone, but your spoue likley knows when they are woken by legs jerking or body twitching, etc. We may simply atribute something to being in pain and having a bad day, but it may actually be linked to starting a new med and the onset traced back to when we started that med. So don't dismiss all their input thinking they simply don't understand. We may not be aware of the impact a med is having on us.
Take care. Dave
RubySlippers
08-29-2005, 02:51 PM
Medcine is a practice, and your the one they are practicing on. :yikes:
Good luck, Dave
Yikes...you are sooo right...but...practice makes perfect??? maybe..maybe not. At this point...just trying to find a doc and get meds....
Shore/Dave...you're the best :bouncing:
Angela
Good luck, Dave
Yikes...you are sooo right...but...practice makes perfect??? maybe..maybe not. At this point...just trying to find a doc and get meds....
Shore/Dave...you're the best :bouncing:
Angela
tracer
08-30-2005, 01:36 AM
nope not wd i had to stop takeing it the more i took the more wacked i got ppl were always asking me are u ok?? and im like waaaattt?? i zoned out and almost had a car wreck.at that point i said ok enough, havent seen pm yet but im not takeing anymore of this stuff talk about being impaired.but im quite sure i had no withdrawals from one half a 5 mg lortab 3 times a day.i get about the same relief from takeing 6 bc a day although it feels like its eating my guts up i got a morguage 3 kids and a wife that dont work i gotto go,no choice if pm doc cant help when i go back so be it but the nerotin aint happening and nor is any other off the wall meds.if i had time to play it might be ok but i must work and cannot afford to take meds that have these possible side effects.