Jack Saturn
08-21-2005, 05:18 PM
I have been on Opiates for 15 years,the last 6 of them on fair dosages of Oxy(600mg a day),then Methadone(100mg a day).I have noticed less drive,ability to act on things,motivation,etc.I already started HRT from low Testosterone levels produced by the Methadone dosage.How many Meth users have had similar things happen to them?The longer I'm on it,the worse these symptoms get.Is this common?My Pain Doc put me on Dexedrine 30mg X 2,to help with this and ,also for ADD.I take Prozac 20mg and Xanax 0.5 x 3.A month or so ago,I began dropping the Meth dose,so I'm at 60 mg a day,have not had any Dexedrine in past 2 weeks,but am STILL feeling the symptoms.Should I go back to the Dex?I was hopin to get some real-life experiences to read to help me figure what to do,I don't want to throw this at my Dr. yet,till I see how the responses go.Besides,he charges $75.00 for 15 minutes,I got NO insurance.That's one reason for being on Methadone,it's cheap.Thanks,jack saturn
Sponsor
Jack Saturn
08-27-2005, 10:44 PM
Well,let's see:I guess this means I need to go to the Addictions Forum to get a response,right?I would think someone here had that knowledge or even first-hand experience,but ...Oh well,thanks anyway folks.Jack Saturn
Shoreline
08-28-2005, 09:53 AM
Hy jack, I think tha lack of response is a good sign that folks are trying t live a nomal life and participate in family functions during the weekend. This forum always slows down during the weekend.
As far as going to addiction, you will get responses but how 15 years of abusing opiates or being on meth maint compares to 15 years of PM are two entirely different subjects.
THe main reason I went to the pump was all the negative side effets and the need for meds to compensate for side effects from other meds to manage the side effects of meth.
Meth and amphetmaines would be consderd a speed ball on the addiction forum and foks wuold probably love to have your docs name on the addiction forum.
Due to the heart atack, amphetmamines were not an option for me and the side effcts were exacly as you described, Dramataic drops in T evels, or labido, the meth Blahs where you have no motivation to do anything and even the thouht of going out in the heat and sweating through 3 layers of drawers is enough to keep you inside.
The best thing abut the pump, aside from medicare paying for the meds and refills, is clearing your head and somewhat of a return to normal ambition or no longer being satisfied with just pain relef when you feel you have no life outside of meth and managing pain.
The biggst noticable difference between oral meds and a pump is the clearing of your mind and going from a very grey world to a world filled with vibrant colors and thinking of the future and how you want to spend you life. How long you can tolerate living like that varries, but once your head is cleared by mniscule amounts of IT meds and meth isn';t an option you would be surprised by how accomadated you may have felt to these meds untill you discontinue them and T levels return to normal, you ambition comes back and you realize just how impairing these meds actualy are.
I reached a point after abou 2&1/2 years on the same dose of meth "120mgs a day" that I needed an incease to keep up with the pain and the slow detirioration of my spine. The increase pretty much pushed me over the edge where I couldn't stand living that way any longer, I didn't like my daughter seeing med nod out from meth and my marriage was going to hell.
I don't know if the marriage can be salvaged.I also don't want the fact my wife could easily documant the number of times I simply fell asleep watching the cartoon network with my daughter. It had to be scarry for her and was unexceptable to me. So after one failed pump trial I did another that was succesful.
I was doing well on IT morphine but there is a risk of deveolping a granular cyst from the morphine concentration I was at. Not that the dose was exrordianritly hgh but with an older pump I needed refills every monh.
Medicare will pretty much pay for it all except our hopitilaization copay, last year it was 800. It may have gone up a bit. Refills cost about 50 bucks, adjustments cost about 30 bucks and it can take lots of adjustments and trials of meds. I'm not gettng the relief I got on morphine and develeoped extreme UA retention when they doubled the baclofin n the mix with dilaudid, so my last refill they reduced it back down and that relieved most of the symptoms.
I did tell the doc I got better relif from morphine and the level of relief just isn't exceptable now when morphine provided so much better with fewer side effects. I magine we will try one last increase on the dilaudid and add clondodine but I can't do several more months of minimal pain control, so I'm hoping to switch back to morphine and deal with the monthly refills,they have me coming n for the stupid DEA ats where a nurse simply checks the refill dates on the bottles and if she's ambitious she will do a pill count. But hte pump at the right level of morhine had sustained the best pain relief , the clearest head and the least side effects for the 4 months prior to switching to dilaudid.
Feeling like crap the last few years is just a constant reminder of is ths what the rest of my life is going to be like, another 20, 30 o 40 years of this ?
The pump cetainly changed my outlook,I was able to help coach my daugters softball team, was more productive around the house and had my labido back.
The folks that say there are no negative side effects when using opiates only to manage pain are simply kidding themself or have forgotten what it was like to see a blue sky and want to go out and enjoy it. Yes accomadation ocurs but your dealing with all the things you are acomadated too, low T levels, lack of motivaton, the meth blahs, nodding out and seeing the world through a pair of glasses that removes all color from life.
If you have medicare, you don't have to live this way if a pump is effective at relieving enough pain for the thought of how are you going to live out the rest of your life to be a concern. Nodding out on the couch if you don't take speed and Testosterone is a crappy way to live. You can try to return to some type of normalcy which a pump can do and orals can't when you requie doses high enough to efect homone levels and require speed to stay awake.
I'm sure the lower dose patients won't agree but that's not what were talking about. 600 mgs of oxy is not a minimal dose or a medium dose, It's high. Needing to combat side effects of meth with more than one drug starts to get rediclous and when one day just blurs from one gray day to the next, it takes a huge psychological toll.
Personally I would want to know if a pump would be a better option. The new pump has more capability than ever, a resevoir 3 times the size of the old and IT meds don't cross the blood brain barrier. You have an exponentially higher number of opiate receptors in your spinal cord than anywhere else in your body, meds don't have to cross the blood brain barrrier to be effective and the lower effective doses used in pumps don't cause everything you have described. Been there, done that, couldn't live that way on meth and that was my only financial alternative too. What's the harm in doing a pump trial and potentially clearing your head, restoring all that meth has robbed you of and finding a financial alternatve to feeling like crap all the time.
Goo luck, Dave
As far as going to addiction, you will get responses but how 15 years of abusing opiates or being on meth maint compares to 15 years of PM are two entirely different subjects.
THe main reason I went to the pump was all the negative side effets and the need for meds to compensate for side effects from other meds to manage the side effects of meth.
Meth and amphetmaines would be consderd a speed ball on the addiction forum and foks wuold probably love to have your docs name on the addiction forum.
Due to the heart atack, amphetmamines were not an option for me and the side effcts were exacly as you described, Dramataic drops in T evels, or labido, the meth Blahs where you have no motivation to do anything and even the thouht of going out in the heat and sweating through 3 layers of drawers is enough to keep you inside.
The best thing abut the pump, aside from medicare paying for the meds and refills, is clearing your head and somewhat of a return to normal ambition or no longer being satisfied with just pain relef when you feel you have no life outside of meth and managing pain.
The biggst noticable difference between oral meds and a pump is the clearing of your mind and going from a very grey world to a world filled with vibrant colors and thinking of the future and how you want to spend you life. How long you can tolerate living like that varries, but once your head is cleared by mniscule amounts of IT meds and meth isn';t an option you would be surprised by how accomadated you may have felt to these meds untill you discontinue them and T levels return to normal, you ambition comes back and you realize just how impairing these meds actualy are.
I reached a point after abou 2&1/2 years on the same dose of meth "120mgs a day" that I needed an incease to keep up with the pain and the slow detirioration of my spine. The increase pretty much pushed me over the edge where I couldn't stand living that way any longer, I didn't like my daughter seeing med nod out from meth and my marriage was going to hell.
I don't know if the marriage can be salvaged.I also don't want the fact my wife could easily documant the number of times I simply fell asleep watching the cartoon network with my daughter. It had to be scarry for her and was unexceptable to me. So after one failed pump trial I did another that was succesful.
I was doing well on IT morphine but there is a risk of deveolping a granular cyst from the morphine concentration I was at. Not that the dose was exrordianritly hgh but with an older pump I needed refills every monh.
Medicare will pretty much pay for it all except our hopitilaization copay, last year it was 800. It may have gone up a bit. Refills cost about 50 bucks, adjustments cost about 30 bucks and it can take lots of adjustments and trials of meds. I'm not gettng the relief I got on morphine and develeoped extreme UA retention when they doubled the baclofin n the mix with dilaudid, so my last refill they reduced it back down and that relieved most of the symptoms.
I did tell the doc I got better relif from morphine and the level of relief just isn't exceptable now when morphine provided so much better with fewer side effects. I magine we will try one last increase on the dilaudid and add clondodine but I can't do several more months of minimal pain control, so I'm hoping to switch back to morphine and deal with the monthly refills,they have me coming n for the stupid DEA ats where a nurse simply checks the refill dates on the bottles and if she's ambitious she will do a pill count. But hte pump at the right level of morhine had sustained the best pain relief , the clearest head and the least side effects for the 4 months prior to switching to dilaudid.
Feeling like crap the last few years is just a constant reminder of is ths what the rest of my life is going to be like, another 20, 30 o 40 years of this ?
The pump cetainly changed my outlook,I was able to help coach my daugters softball team, was more productive around the house and had my labido back.
The folks that say there are no negative side effects when using opiates only to manage pain are simply kidding themself or have forgotten what it was like to see a blue sky and want to go out and enjoy it. Yes accomadation ocurs but your dealing with all the things you are acomadated too, low T levels, lack of motivaton, the meth blahs, nodding out and seeing the world through a pair of glasses that removes all color from life.
If you have medicare, you don't have to live this way if a pump is effective at relieving enough pain for the thought of how are you going to live out the rest of your life to be a concern. Nodding out on the couch if you don't take speed and Testosterone is a crappy way to live. You can try to return to some type of normalcy which a pump can do and orals can't when you requie doses high enough to efect homone levels and require speed to stay awake.
I'm sure the lower dose patients won't agree but that's not what were talking about. 600 mgs of oxy is not a minimal dose or a medium dose, It's high. Needing to combat side effects of meth with more than one drug starts to get rediclous and when one day just blurs from one gray day to the next, it takes a huge psychological toll.
Personally I would want to know if a pump would be a better option. The new pump has more capability than ever, a resevoir 3 times the size of the old and IT meds don't cross the blood brain barrier. You have an exponentially higher number of opiate receptors in your spinal cord than anywhere else in your body, meds don't have to cross the blood brain barrrier to be effective and the lower effective doses used in pumps don't cause everything you have described. Been there, done that, couldn't live that way on meth and that was my only financial alternative too. What's the harm in doing a pump trial and potentially clearing your head, restoring all that meth has robbed you of and finding a financial alternatve to feeling like crap all the time.
Goo luck, Dave
Director
08-29-2005, 02:01 PM
Hi Jack...I was/or am on the same meds as you, with the exemption of the Dexidrine. I broached the subject with my doc and got shot down, so that was that. I was on Oxycontin at 160 mg TID (480/day) and briefly for about a month or so I went to 160 mg QID (640/day). I have been on opiate pain meds for about six and a half years and now I'm Methadone, 180 mg per day. I notice some of the same effects you do, but the main ones are being drowsy when doing nonstimulating things. Driving long distances gives me the fits. I can't take my meds at normal doses, because I get sleepy. So, this forces me to take 10 or 20 mg, just to get by until we reach our destination. On a road trip vacation, it's really tough.
I'm on SS Disability now, so I don't have to worry about doing my job, but I am a house husband, so I have certain things I need to do each day. I know what you mean by losing your drive, but I've been on Meth about two and a half years and I have tried to keep my drive up as much as I can, with my pain each day. It helps if you get in a try to make your jobs or chores each day and not let them slide.
Hang in there Jack, and if you need the Dex and your doc agrees, you might have to go that route. Good luck to you.
I'm on SS Disability now, so I don't have to worry about doing my job, but I am a house husband, so I have certain things I need to do each day. I know what you mean by losing your drive, but I've been on Meth about two and a half years and I have tried to keep my drive up as much as I can, with my pain each day. It helps if you get in a try to make your jobs or chores each day and not let them slide.
Hang in there Jack, and if you need the Dex and your doc agrees, you might have to go that route. Good luck to you.
Jack Saturn
08-30-2005, 12:53 AM
Thanks for the info,Dave,I'm sorry to hear about your marraige,I just about lost my Wife and 2 girls because of the lack of,well,a bunch of things!It was like Methadone was taking even my will to live,I felt hardly any emotions,I ignored my family cause I didn't care any more.Make no mistake,Methadone is one of the best pain meds of all,but what it takes from you is too much for me.I still have to go from 60mg a day to(that's what I don't know,yet),I guess I need to slow the taper.Any ideas? JS
Shoreline
08-30-2005, 10:11 AM
Hey Jack, Sorry about my sloppy pot, I'll try not to repond t post at 3 am and then wake up and relize I don't understand a qord I said/.LOL
Tapewring is usually easy in the beginning and then you kind of hit a wall. You may need dome form of opiate the rest of your life but my advice is still look into a what a pump may be able to do.
If your want to try a holiday and simply stop the meds, to see how you function without. I would discuss this with your doc. There are other meds that can be used to ease some of the withdrawal. Or simply switching to another med that's not so sedating once you reach a point where you can't taper the meth comfortably any longer, may be the way to go.
If you go back and read my first post it will make alot more sense now, sorry about that. I need a keyboard lock after 2am in the morning. Thoughts make sense in my head but aren't coming out that way in the middle of the night. LOL
Take care, Dave
Tapewring is usually easy in the beginning and then you kind of hit a wall. You may need dome form of opiate the rest of your life but my advice is still look into a what a pump may be able to do.
If your want to try a holiday and simply stop the meds, to see how you function without. I would discuss this with your doc. There are other meds that can be used to ease some of the withdrawal. Or simply switching to another med that's not so sedating once you reach a point where you can't taper the meth comfortably any longer, may be the way to go.
If you go back and read my first post it will make alot more sense now, sorry about that. I need a keyboard lock after 2am in the morning. Thoughts make sense in my head but aren't coming out that way in the middle of the night. LOL
Take care, Dave