My Dad is in stage 6 and violent. My parents are both in their early 70's and my Mom is dealing with it the best she can. Last month he was stage 5, but suddenly in the last 2 weeks he has gotten much worse and has started threatening to kill my Mom. He smacked her on the leg last week hard enough to leave a large bruise.

None of the Drs. are giving us any recommendations. He is going to see a Physician's Assistant in the morning and my Mom hopes to get him on some mood controlling meds.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

I am starting to feel desperate.

Hi Kamsue -

I suggest you and your mother see an eldercare lawyer ASAP to have Durable Power of Attorney and whatever else done so all the legal stuff is completed to save later hassles.

If finances permit and a mood altering medicine doesn't help, an assisted living facility may be necessary. If the doctor they see tomorrow seems not to hear you mother about what has been happening, take your father to see a geriatric doctor who specializes in the diseases and problems of the elderly.

You mother should not have to live in fear. This is not your father who is causing the threat - it is "the Imposter" (read the top sticky). Sadly, the danger may be real.

My elderly mother benifitted from an antidepressant, and later at the awake all night stage, a sleeping pill. I could not see much benefit from Aracept, but others may have had a better result.

Wishing you well - Barbara

Hi KamSue ...

sorry you have to be here, but at least you are amongst people who know EXACTLY how you feel .. and .. with our input, might be able to steer you and your Mum in the right directions.

The violence appears to come from frustration. If your Mum is saying anything along the lines of telling him he's failed (and she may not even MEAN it, but these things slip out ... I know .. I still do it!!) that can just set him off. I know I do it with my MIL, I'll SEE her putting laundry detergent on bread and say "No, don't do that" .. which, the word NO makes her defensive, and the DON'T DO THAT is an order, and it just plain gets her back up and .. yeah .. you guessed it, Sally doesn't always duck fast enough.

The next thing is to find a doctor who specialises in the elderly, who believes Dementia is real and is willing to do something about it to keep everybody safe. Barbara is right, your only choice may be to put him in a facility where the people are trained to care (and duck quicker LOL) at least get a sleeping pill to ensure he sleeps all night so Mum can have a break and rest herself. Anti depressants work a treat too, but sometimes you have to try a few until you get one that works the best.

Last but not least, your Mum is in danger if she is being struck. Today a bruise, tomorrow something could be broken. NOBODY needs to be abused. It doesn't matter that it's the imposter doing it, Mum must be protected at all costs. Anybody coming around to help, must be protected at all costs. This isn't Dad, this is the imposter, and the imposter can be downright ugly.

I hope we haven't scared you away :-) .... but we are all in / been in / going into / getting out of, the same boat

Hugs
Sally

Hi Kamsue,

I am sorry that your father is progressing so rapidly. Is he currently taking any meds for alzheimers? Of course, he may be at to high of a level for certain kinds of medicines. But like others have said, the anti-depressants, the mood altering drugs and the sleeping pills can help. He needs something ASAP - because of the threat to your mothers health!

If not much is done today at the dr. office, make sure there is nothing dangerous in their house. No guns, knives and such! Do you live close? Maybe you can go and steal them while your dad is asleep. It would be helpful if you could go to the dr. with them too!

If the drs. will not do anything further for your father, either call them and talk to them, or get him a new dr. ASAP. Try a neurologist, if he is not already going to one. They are the specialist in AD. If he needs to be put in a NH, he might need a letter from one of his doctors to say just that. Be sure and check out the NH completely, before putting him in one! Some are good and some are not!!!

Good Luck and take care. Love, Wannabe

Seroquel is a drug the neurologist gave my dad who tends to be very aggressive. He has huge temper flair-ups and can get very agitated. Seroquel has helped even at a low dose.

If he gets violent with your mother again, he has to be removed from the home. This is simply not acceptable. It is not the real him, but even more scary since he will not be reasonable at such a time. Was he ever angry/violent before? Is your Mom used to such behavior? She needs counseling too, someone who can help her deal with him in the best way for ALL, including herself. I am glad she has you to help her, otherwise she might be feeling desperately alone...her husband is no longer her partner.

Good luck with it, it's a hard road to tread.

Martha

Hello Kamsue, I am so sorry to hear of your father's illness.
It sounds like your mother may be in danger. If you live in the USA, you can contact your County Adult Protective Services. It is a drastic step, but it could be your mother's safety and well being.
APS will see that your father is placed in a secure facility for dementia patients. Finances are not a problem, usually. They work with Medicare and Social Security, plus any private insurance.

Having your mother get Durable Power Of Attorney and Guardianship/ Conservator is another option, possibly a better one.

It is so heart breaking to see a parent reach this stage of the disease.
They truly are not themselves.
It is very important to see that your mother is safe. Your father still has a lot of strength, and with the dementia he could be very out of control and not even realize what he is doing or why he is acting out.

Take care,
Linda In CA

I've been very busy for the past few days.

My Dad is now in the hospital and others have now had a glimpse at the type of violence he is capable of. The Doctors are now agreeing that there is no way my Mom can take him home.

They are giving him all kinds of medication to keep him from becoming agressive, and he still has occassional outbursts of anger. They can't keep him in his room either. He wanders around the clock and goes in and out of other patient rooms. He has also been taking things apart and keeps trying to take some built-in shelves off the wall in his room. They are giving him medication to reduce fluid build-up but they never told my Mom they were going to give him any of that. She just found out by asking the nurse.

He completed all the legal forms years ago so that his life would not be prolonged by medicines or machines. And, he has a "do not resusitate" order on file at the hospital. He told us when he was first diagnosed with AD that he would quit all heart medications and let nature take its course when he got worse and he had quit taking those medicines. Since that was his wish, can the doctors and nursing home force him to start taking blood pressure medicine and other meds for this heart again?

Would is be wrong to continue not giving him blood pressure medicine if he doesn't want to take it just because we know his body needs it? Does anyone know what we can do in this situation?

I don't know the answers to the heart and BP meds ... maybe they have to keep on giving them since they do not count as heroic measures, or life saving measures.

Can you get answers from his doctor?

I'm happy for yur Mom that she won't have to be living in fear of him any more. It is so sad. People's whole personality changes. My brother's MIL who died of AD in March 04 was always a difficult, quarrelsome person ... but in her final stages of Alzheimer's she became docile and friendly.

Good luck with his future care. I hope they fnd a good nursing home, probably with lock down so he won't disturb other patients ...

Love,

Martha

Hi -

I didn't have the medication issue to deal with since my mother had just glaucoma before the Alzheimer's. From my many years in the profession, I suggest any medication that protects the patient from more problems should probably be continued. For example, BP medicine decreases the chance of a debiliating stroke, so I'd continue that. Most strokes aren't fatal, but the patient may have lingering significant problems that would increase what he and his caregivers had to deal with.

If someone has Durable Power of Attorney, that person can say what medicines to give or not give and over-ride your Dad's wishes. If you choose to honor your father's choices, it would be good if you and your mother also say to the doctor, "We are agreed that Dad's wishes will be followed. He chose to quit taking these medicines when he was diagnosed with AD, proving he does not want these medicines, so do not give them."

I hope the right combination of meds can be found to keep your father calm. Even then, it will not be safe for him to go home because he may refuse to take the calming meds as he should.

Take care of you!

Hugs - Barbara :)

Even with the Seroquil, he is still becoming violent. When one attendant walked away from him to do something else while he was trying to talk to her, he went after her, grabbed her by the arm and jerked her around. It took 2 nurses to get him off of her and he threw one of them on the ground. It then took 5 to hold him down while he was punching, hitting, head butting, and trying to bite them. I don't think they've ever had a patient quite like this. Thank goodness he is not still at home with my mother.

Dad went outside into one of the courtyards and as quick as an attendant got there to check on him they found him with one leg over the 8 ft. wall. He is 5'6", 135 lbs. and solid muscle. There is nothing in the Courtyard to climb on either. I guess he jumped up and grabbed the top and was able to pull himself up. Amazing for a 73 year old man.

If he ever does get out, I hope they call my mom immediately so she can get somewhere safe in case he finds his way home.

Has anyone ever had any experience with someone like this?

Wow .. my MIL was violent, but not like this!!

Your poor mother .. what has she gone through? I'm more worried for her than your Dad.

The hospital will have to take drastic actions to keep your Dad confined. At our 2 local hospital, they have stable doors on some rooms with the latches down the bottom. I can honestly say I've never seen anybody with a leg over them. the doors come up to about chest height on an averaged sized person, and since 'little old ladies' are in fact 'little', it usually doesn't become an issue. Your Dad isn't that tall, so it would be interesting to see what he does. He's a cunning blighter isn't he? LOL !

Trouble with Dementia is, where there's a will, there's away. If he wants out, he will do anything and everything in his power. See, he's not 73 in his world, so he's invinsible!!

If he does get out, it may take the hospital a little while to notice him missing. I would suggest they put a bracelet on him that sets off an alarm if he leaves a certain radius. They had to do that with my girlfriends Dad. He took off a few times.

I am just so lucky that MIL has been placed in a Dementia specific Nursing Home, full lock down facilities, key entry and exit and monitors and alarms everywhere. Mind you, she's gone from rabid and angry to calm and content. A complete turn around, although ACAT and I are waiting ... one day she's gonna wanna go shopping, and somebody is going to say NO and all hell will break loose .. but that's later ... and not my problem at the moment.

Have a chat to the hospital staff and doctors about your fears for your Mum.

Can I ask you .. was your Dad a bully in his normal days or is this behaviour totally alien to his behaviour pre-dementia?

Cheers
Sally

Dear KamSue ..I sure hope he stays put ..if the one drug doesn't calm him, maybe another one will. What a horrible situation.

I hope he wasn't violent with your Mom in the past few months and she just hasn't told anyone?

Good luck!
Martha

mustang sally - Yes, my dad was a bully when he was a kid. If anyone disciplined their kids that way mine did us, they would be in jail for child abuse. (Whippings with a belt that left red stripes that would last for weeks.) I got a belt whipping once that was so bad the marks still showed in places 2 months later. I was a rebellious daughter in my teenage years. But no one ever deserves a beating like that. I don't care what they did. But, until the Alzheimer's he was never violent toward my mother, but he was very controlling. She was a "Laura Petry" type wife/mother but my Dad was no Dick Van Dyke.

We tried to get her to divorce him 30 years ago but he convinced her that he would get custody of all the kids because she didn't have any means of supporting herself or us. He is the kind of person who should never have kids.

He never hit my mom until about a month ago, but he threatened it a lot during the last 6 months. Once he broke through that barrier and hit her the first time I figured he would escalate quickly and possibly carry through on his threats.

If he ever has to come back home, we will have to move her out and he will be living there on his own. I don't know what we can do if they can't control his violent outbursts with meds.

Hi KamSue -

So sorry that the problems with your father are even worse now. He needs to be in a locked unit for his safety and everyone else's safety, too. Even in a unit where he could not escape, he would not be locked in a room.

Most AD patients who are locked in are not violent. My mother was moved to a locked unit after she wandered out the door at the assisted living facility at 9pm one night. They were not set up to patrol the doors, so I had to move her. It was amazing that she was found by a staff member who took her back to her apartment at the ALF.

Since your father is so violent, he probably needs a psychiatric consult so he can get the kind of behavior modifying medicines he needs. Even in a locked unit, he would be a danger to others as he is now.

If they cannot control your father's behavior, have him committed to a psychiatic institution as a real danger to others. If it comes to this, anyone who was experienced his violence, seen it, or heard the threats must be at the committment hearing to bear witness to the situation. A lawyer could advise on this.

As has been said, your mother should NOT have to be in harm's way. She's endured enough. It's her turn to be safe and happy.

Let us know how it goes. Wishing you well.

(((hugs))) Barbara

Yes Barbara .. it is Mum's turn to be safe. Her turn to have a life without threats and intimidation.

Oh I can't stand men like that, I really can't !!

We have a violent Dementia lock-down facility about an hours drive away from us. It was there that they were thinking they might have to move my MIL because of her violent behaviour .. but fortunately (for her) she's settled down and is (at the moment), a calm little mouse. Fingers crossed she stays that way.

KamSue, I was hoping you were going to tell me he was a loving father and a gentle soul and that the dementia has made him what he is today. But alas, my deepest fears were realised when you said he was a bully and intimidator. Unfortunately, although dementia often creates an opposite character, sometimes it enhances the one already there .. I think this has happened to your Dad.

If pinch comes to crunch, can you get him into a violent dementia specific nursing home? I agree, he needs a psychotic evaluation and appropriate med's to keep him quieter and calmer. Not just for the threat of a homecoming, but for staff working with him as well. They too are in danger and let's not even go near other residents.

If he is sent home, get your mother OUT. Hide her away. Do not let her feel intimidated into caring for him ~ if she has lived under threat all her life from him, either physically, emotionally or verbally, she owes him nothing.

Getting off soapbox .. for the moment *grin*

Mustang_Sally

He is in an Alzheimer's facility that does monitor the exterior doors and courtyards, but does not lock them in single rooms. He has access to the entire building and all courtyards.

We have not had an opportunity to fill the staff in on the extent of his violent history. My mom has been in denial about this and blocked the worst of it out of her memory. He was never physically violent toward her until the last 3 to 6 months. He has always been an expert at covering his behavior and has always been a pillar in the community. I have had so many people that he coached years ago come to me in the past few years and tell me what a wonderful influence he was on their lives and how he made them who they are today. Too bad he never shared that side of himself with his own children. Most people who have known him on a social level would never believe how abusive he was.

I don't know if he was cruel to animals as a child, but I would not be surprised to learn that he was.

It is such a relief to be able to talk about this openly after years and years of keeping it quiet. I guess the internet with a screen name is not really "openly" but it is still a great place to vent. Thanks for listening and sympathizing.

Dear KamSue - I lived with spousal abuse for many years, decades. He was also a hightly regarded pillar of the church and community. I hope your mother gets entirely free of him. I covered up for mine. My 3 kids would say 'he never hit her," I didn't want them to suffer.

Love,

Martha