I have had afib for 30 years. I take Rythmol and digoxin. I am also pacemaker dependent. I was at a health store getting for some fish oil. I take both it and flax oil for choloesterol also 10mg lipitor.

Anyway, my question is the woman at the health store told me if I took 1000mg of Calcium and 1000 mg of magnisum it would stop afib. I thought about trying it . The meds above just keep help keep my heart rate down.

I had a new pm implant 22 months ago and have been in afib 1000 times at my checkup last week. That is a lot of times. I wake up almost every morning in afib. With the ablation I am not suppose to feel it but I do. Has anyone tired the Ca and Mg? She said it was used in Canada all the time to stop afib. - sam

I have had afib for 30 years. I take Rythmol and digoxin. I am also pacemaker dependent. I was at a health store getting for some fish oil. I take both it and flax oil for choloesterol also 10mg lipitor.

Anyway, my question is the woman at the health store told me if I took 1000mg of Calcium and 1000 mg of magnisum it would stop afib. I thought about trying it . The meds above just keep help keep my heart rate down.

I also have afib, and take Digoxin. I also take vitamins and minerals, including calcium and magnesium, but in lower quantities than the salesman at your health store suggested. In my case, I can't take calcium, or eat a food with too much calcium, within two hours of my digoxin pill, or it will cause increased heart arrhythmias. In fact, I take my vitamins/minerals at least two hours away from any of my heart meds.

I had a new pm implant 22 months ago and have been in afib 1000 times at my checkup last week. That is a lot of times. I wake up almost every morning in afib. With the ablation I am not suppose to feel it but I do. Has anyone tired the Ca and Mg? She said it was used in Canada all the time to stop afib. - sam

She probably doesn't even know anything about afib. Her goal could be just to get you to buy more stuff at the store. If calcium and magnesium could cure afib, it would be a huge medical discovery.

How well does the pacemaker work for you? What changes have you experienced since having it put in?

You asked me about the pacemaker.

Last week I received a letter from my EP which stated my pm had been recalled. There have been 3 times since the last checkup I had been sitting and suddenly began to faint. So this made me rather tense. I was able to see a Guident tech the next day. My EP was in surgery. He found nothing wrong with the pacemaker. My EP's nurse is also qualified to give checkups and stood with him as he checked it. He stated that pacemakers are to be within .01% tolorance. My model had had a 1% failure rate. As I said I still have the symptoms of Afib, but don't feel the quivering unless I am lying on my stomach. I had had 1000 afib occurances since implantation. Which is quite a bit.

When I had this pm implanted, about a month after implantation I became dizzy one morning. I was by myself at the time. I was pretty sick. I called 911 and then went and sat down. I also called my sister-in-law who talked to me to keep me from passing out. I took my pulse and it was 40. The paramedic's arrieved and when they got here my pulse was 150bmp. It ran like that for quite awhile. The hospial wrote "pm failure", but my EP said it was his fault for sitting the high end at 150. But since that letter I always have wondered what caused it drop to forty. At the time I had my first one implanted the only thing that could be done was an ablation, ameriderone (sp?), or just keep going to the ER. OH, the cardiologist would not give me ameridone and three other would also not do it. And to tell you the truth I didn't want it. Too many side effects. After 35 years I now have mild lvd. I get along ok, but not like I used to. I walk on the treadmill 3mph for twenty minutes every other day.

My Cardiologist told me I didn't have heart failure. My PC told said no, but I do have a weak heart. But then the pharmacist told me they were the same thing. My EF was in the 50-60 range and that was about a year ago. I believe he said 63, but my PC showed me on the papers that were faxed to him it stated 70. I don't believe it would be that high. I know this is more than you asked for. Take care of yourself. I am 62 now and have had this for 35 years. The first pm was implanted in 98. Afib can be debilitating as you may know. It simply ruined my life. - sam

There is some evidence that Magnesium will help in controlling AF. I am not medically trained, but have permanent AF, so I know a little bit about it. The aim in my situation is rate control and the medication, Sotalol (Sotacor), works for me. Amiodarone was very effective, but I developed thyroid problems, and had to cease this medication. It has a lot of potentially serious side-effects, and is best avoided if possible. I cannot take magnesium supplementation because of chronic renal failure. Are you taking an anti-coagulant such as Warfarin ? This is very important, especially if you have episodes of AF.Anyway to answer your original question,in my experience Mg will not stop AF, but a lot of people with AF take it. You need professional advice on the quantity. I don't know anything about taking calcium supplementation. Again I would not ingest anything without knowing its likely effects, and advise from a trained person. AF does not lead directly to heart failure, but obviouly is not helpful to your cardiac functioning.
A cardiac echogram may answer most of your questions.Do you ever feel any congestion around the lungs eg. have a "tight" chest and cough? This can be an early
sign of early heart failure.A degree of heart failure is not uncommon in older age groups, and is usually easily diagnosed and can be treated quite well in the earlier stages.Hope this helps a bit, but remember, I am not a doctor. All the best.
Regards, Excelsior

HI,
Thank's for your comments. By permanent, do you mean you have afib all of the time? I go in and out of it on a daily basis. I don't think I will take any Mg for I agree with what you said. I am very careful with herbs. I do take fish oil and flax oil daily. I have three friends whose doctors put them on it. My brother takes flax and fish oil for cholesterol.

Yes, I take Coudamin, but asked the doctor to switch me to warfin due to cost. I also take Rythmol (generic) and it along with digoxin control my heart rate. I have been on the digoxin for for almost ten years. The Rythmol eight years. I wanted to ask you if you have ever experienced a drop in body temperature for a few hours. My temperature dropped to 96.3 on three different occassions. And the temperature in the house was 80F. I put on a sweat suit. The reason for mentioning it is I think I read where this is a symptom of thyroid problems. Also, when you had renal failure, what were the symptoms? Did you just begin holding water? It sounds like you and I have been on the same boat for a number of years. Thanks for replying.- sam

You asked me about the pacemaker.

Last week I received a letter from my EP which stated my pm had been recalled. There have been 3 times since the last checkup I had been sitting and suddenly began to faint. So this made me rather tense. I was able to see a Guident tech the next day. My EP was in surgery. He found nothing wrong with the pacemaker. My EP's nurse is also qualified to give checkups and stood with him as he checked it. He stated that pacemakers are to be within .01% tolorance. My model had had a 1% failure rate. As I said I still have the symptoms of Afib, but don't feel the quivering unless I am lying on my stomach. I had had 1000 afib occurances since implantation. Which is quite a bit.

I've had permanent asymptomatic atrial fibrillation for 20 years. I am always in it, and I can't feel it or hear it with a stethoscope.

I do get episodes of tachycardia and palpitations and hard thumping, but I am never aware of my afib. What does your afib feel like?

When I had this pm implanted, about a month after implantation I became dizzy one morning. I was by myself at the time. I was pretty sick. I called 911 and then went and sat down. I also called my sister-in-law who talked to me to keep me from passing out. I took my pulse and it was 40.

After an episode like this, do you feel drained and fatigued the next day or two?

The paramedic's arrieved and when they got here my pulse was 150bmp. It ran like that for quite awhile. The hospial wrote "pm failure", but my EP said it was his fault for sitting the high end at 150.

I thought that pace makers only kicked in when the heart rate fell below 40 bpm. 150bpm is really racing. I wonder what your EP means by he set the high end at 150? If so, why so high? It sounds like the EP deliberately set it for 150. Why? Why not set it at about 110?

To me, the quality of the heart beat is more important than the rate. A heart could be beating at 90 bpm, but be misfiring so badly that the rate of the beat is not important.

But since that letter I always have wondered what caused it drop to forty. At the time I had my first one implanted the only thing that could be done was an ablation, ameriderone (sp?), or just keep going to the ER. OH, the cardiologist would not give me ameridone and three other would also not do it. And to tell you the truth I didn't want it. Too many side effects. After 35 years I now have mild lvd. I get along ok, but not like I used to. I walk on the treadmill 3mph for twenty minutes every other day.

What happens if you try to walk every day for 20 minutes? Have you ever tried two sessions of 20 minutes in one day?

I've learned a lot about my heart disease and the medicines in the past 20 years, but I've learned it the hard way. At first, I took all of the meds at the same time. I started to suffer from severe cramps and constipation. I found out that I had to separate my coumadin from my other meds by a few hours. Then I found out that other problems that I was having were caused by taking my other meds too close together or from foods or drinks. Then, over the years, I found out that there were many things that touched my skin, or that I breathed in also caused additional problems. By avoiding a TON of things, and staying on the right diet, I've been able to survive afib and heart failure with a fairly high quality of life.

My Cardiologist told me I didn't have heart failure. My PC told said no, but I do have a weak heart. But then the pharmacist told me they were the same thing. My EF was in the 50-60 range and that was about a year ago. I believe he said 63, but my PC showed me on the papers that were faxed to him it stated 70. I don't believe it would be that high.

It's great that you don't have heart failure. It is a nasty thing to have! I've had it for 20 years, along with the afib. My heart failure seems to be a lot better, but my heart rhythm problems have gotten much worse. I can keep my heart beating pretty damn good most of the time, but there are a lot more things that I have to avoid to keep my heart beating calmly and comfortably.

What do you think about your diagnosis of a weak heart? Do you tire easily? Do you oversweat during activity? Do you have frequent problems with labored breathing? You can still have heart failure and have an EF in the 50-60 range.

I know this is more than you asked for. Take care of yourself. I am 62 now and have had this for 35 years. The first pm was implanted in 98. Afib can be debilitating as you may know. It simply ruined my life. - sam

I appreciate your post. I wanted to get some feedback about afib from others. And.... I was interested in your pace maker experience. I've decided NEVER to get one, but I also want to keep an open mind (somewhat).

On what did your cardiologist base his opinion, that you didn't have heart failure? On what basis did your doctor say that you had a weak heart? A weak heart is a heart in heart failure. But..... there are many degrees of heart failure, from mild heart failure to severe heart failure.

You say that it has ruined your life. For me it has been a very difficult 20 years. If you don't mind the question....... what are your worst experiences with afib? What is the most difficult for you? What have you found that helps you the most?

Regards, best of luck.

What does my Afib feel like?

I don't notice it now other than I get weak and a little nausious. Before the ablation my heart would race and be totally our of rhythm and I would get so weak and nausious. It was getting to the point where my wife was taking me to the hospital 1-2 times a week. This was years ago. I was in my 30's at the time. I am in my 60's now. One thing to keep in mind is that my father had a heart attack in front of me and I watch the doctor cut open his chest and massage his heart. So there is also the aniexty when something happens.

After an episode do I feel drained......?
No, I don't. In fact I feel much better. When I go into afib I just sit down until it passes. I usually feel great until I go into it again and then it passes. It is almost like being manic depressive. I will be feeling fantastic and then suddenly fell weak. I usually just set down although sometimes when I am out I force myself through it.

Pacemaker settings: The EP has set the low end at 60 bpm meaning it will begin pacing if my heart rate would drop below 60 which it will do if I am out of sinus. He set the high end to pace me until I hit 150. He thought I was going to be doing a lot of intensive exercising. I had asked him about it, but I meant like walking on a treadmill. Nothing like running etc. Now it is set the high end at 120. I am to call if my heart rate begins to hit 120.

Foods and medicine: I take my coudamin at 5 pm and the rest are taken at 6am, 2 pm and 10 pm. The one thing I am quite sure will kick me into afib is caffeine and chocolate. Of course it may be the caffeine in the chocolate. Also stress can do it, but not always. I am not aware of other food interactions. I would like to know of any you have discovered. OH, I just began taking fish oil. I may have mentioned that my brother and three others have been placed on it by their doctors. My brother also takes flax oil, so I have began using a tbs a day with that also. This is for heart disease. Two years ago I was told I had 50% blockage in one coronary artery. My brother has high cholesterol and since he has been on the flax his cholesterol has really dropped. Mine was 133 one year ago, but I became allergic to one of my meds. The doctor took me off of four non-life threatening and I went almost six months without any satin meds. It was checked about two months ago and it was 205. A very interesting book for you to read is The Anti Inflammation Zone by Dr. Barry Sears. He really stresses fish oil.

I have never had any problems with breathing. I don't breath or sweat while on the treadmill. You mentioned walking twice for twenty minutes. I haven't done that, but after walking the thirty minutes I have spent the afternoons with my wife walking around the stores etc. I can't do the yard work I used to. Also I found out having electrical equipment to closs to my pm can turnit off. I do the raking etc. I don't get breathless, but do get somewhat tired. I know my energy level is not what is was three years ago. Not to be crude, but when my wife and I have sex, it usually lasts about an hour. Sometimes it wears me out, but not always. I usually bounce back in 10-15 minutes. A few weeks ago it took me about 30 minutes to get back to normal.

What made my PC say that I have heart failure? I really don't know. He just stated it and then said "No, you don't have heart failure, but you do have a weak heart." I brought this up at my last appt. and he justs pointed to the EF of 70 and said nothing. But I think I may have some of it. It may be the afib that will make me weak or that my heart is not pumping as it should which I think you mentioned as being quality. I do notice that when I am in AF my blood pressure is much lower. It will go down to 105-109/ 86, then later it will be around 121/60-70. I have a digital blood pressure device that is for people with arrythymias (sp?). When it drops that low, I get weak and nausious. Not really bad, but just don't feel good until it goes back up.

Yes I mentioned afib truly ruined my life. It has made me dependent on my wife for many things. She now does the trimming. I can mow the lawn, but not when the temps are above 85F. I can do it, but I have to sit down afterwards and rest. It has made it difficult to visit people. I am always anxious about thinking I may not feel well or get to where we are to go and not feel well. I have been this way for many years.

What are my worst experiences with afib? Wow! There are too many to remember a specific one. No, one in particular. One Christmas back in 95 we were to go to my brothers. It was a three hour drive. I woke up not feeling well. I called him and told him we were not coming. He went ballistic. He doesn't want to hear about it and therefore I never talk to my him or my family about it. So we went out for lunch. I was pretty miserable. That evening my wife and son went to the theater. I was downstairs watching television, stood up and dropped to my knees. I was really sick. I crawled up the stairs, took my pulse with a stop watch, and called a neighbor. I really didn't know him well, but his family was the only at home. I had seen their lights earlier. He called 911. The paramedics came and I asked them to have my wife paged at the theater. They said they couldn't do that. Finally I was told to make a decision. I was about ready to passout. It wasn't too long after this that I had the pacemaker implant. I feel pretty good, but it is an on going battle each day. I will feel fine and then suddenly not as good. I was told by the EP that put in my first pacemaker that the only way I might be able to know I was in afib was to put my hand to the left of my sternum. I can't even feel it then, but I can if I am laying on my chest. Sometimes I can feel it in my wrist, but in pacing mode usually not. That I don't understand and never remember to ask.

You stated you had been in heart failure for twenty years. I had read the average life span was five years. If I am in heart failure, you have given me some hope. By the way, would you let me know of any food interactions etc. that you have had problems with? I have met only one person that had this, and he died in April. We both had the same cardiologist and I was told me had many other complications. So other than him he is the only one I personally know. My wife is the only one in my family that understands. The rest just think it is mental. I found a site web called Afib 101. Within the explanation of afib, it gave a detailed explanation for what family members should know. For many like yourself they don't even know they have it until told by a doctor. For others it is debilitating. So I ran off copies and sent them to family members. I just wanted them to understand why I get like I do. Why I don't like to travel etc. It fell on deaf ears. My brother was here about a month ago. He began telling me I should take up hiking with all of the mountains trails. ha! Well, I know my spelling is not the best and I have probably made a number of grammatical errors. But I hope I have answered your questions. Like I said anything about the food I would like to know. I sure miss chocolate. Sometimes I just the H-- with it and eat a piece. Early the next morning I awake in afib. I sleep on my stomach and it will wake me up. - sam

Hi Sam, Yes I am in AF all of the time, but the rate is well controlled, and my body has adapted to some extent to the condition. The basic cause of my AF is a heart muscle disease, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.This is often genetically determined (my case) and there is no treatment for the disease process itself.Some years ago, the AF was episodic, and very severe, in terms of rate and the effects it had on me.I would have to go to the local hospital for electro-cardioversion. This always worked, but the periods between severe episodes became shorter and shorter, and dangerous to me because of the cardiomyopathy. Amiodarone was tried and seemed quite effectrive in controlling the AF, but, as you know I developed thyrotoxicosis, a condition that induces cardiac arrhythmias itself. Because of my underlying heart disease, I was not a good candidate for ablation or other surgical interventions.I have an implanted defibrillator as the cardiomyopathy can produce life-threatening arrhythmias (ventricular tachycardia). The device also paces if my pulse falls below about 50 bpm. So Sotalol (Sotacor) was used to slow down my heart rate and AF in particular with the back up of the pace-maker if required (which is often, apparently). So I do not have any "wild" episodes of AF, and the most my resting pulse reaches now is only about 80 bpm.Of course, I take Warfarin (Coumadin - same active ingredient) and have my INR done every 4 - 6 weeks, but just have to live with the AF.
Regarding the chronic kidney failure, I had no symptoms at all. It was picked up by rising creatinine and urea levels in routine blood tests.Ultrasound subsequently diagnosed renal artery stenosis (arteriosclerosis) which was restricting blood supply to the kidneys. Also, my poor cardiac output would not have helped. Over the past couple of years, I have stuck to a strict low fat diet and done as much exercise that I can do - stationary bike and hand weights.I also take folic acid, B6, and B12 plus Fish Oil Capsules (5000mg/day). Whether it is due to these factors, I do not know, but my kidney function has stabilised and even marginally improved. Before, every test was "worse" than the previous level, so I was on the downward path, and quite worried.
Again because of my poor cardiac condition I could never undergo renal-dialysis, and I was told I was a very high risk for any vascular surgery.OK Sam, there is my story (or most of it). AF itself is not directly life-threatening, and is very common in people over 65 years. Make sure you keep your INR (with medical advice of course) within the therapeutic range. I assume you know that some vegetables and alcohol can effect the action of warfarin (coumadin). Exercise is important too in keeping it stable. Sorry for such a long post, but there was no quick way of explaining my situation which is quite different from yours, except for the AF. I would not dismiss taking magnesium altogether. Seek medical advice especially regarding the amount. Remember that I am not medically trained either, and am only offering my personal experiences, and what I have read. There is no substitute for sound professional medical advice. Some people believe really silly things and recklessly tell other people as if it is fact.And no, I have not experienced a drop in body temperature as you describe.
Regards and Good Luck,
Excelsior, NSW. Australia

What does my Afib feel like?

Yes. That is my question. Please be brief with your answer. ;)

I don't notice it now other than I get weak and a little nausious. Before the ablation my heart would race and be totally our of rhythm and I would get so weak and nausious. It was getting to the point where my wife was taking me to the hospital 1-2 times a week. This was years ago. I was in my 30's at the time. I am in my 60's now.

My problems with tachycardia started when I was in my teens. My heart would, all of a sudden, thump one time really hard, stop beating, and then kick in at about 160bpm. After a while it would thump one last time, and then go back to normal rhythm. I'd feel weak, but when it passed I would be fine. I did not seek medical help for decades.

When you went into the hospital, 1-2 times a week, what was the diagnosis at the hospital, afib?

One thing to keep in mind is that my father had a heart attack in front of me and I watch the doctor cut open his chest and massage his heart. So there is also the aniexty when something happens.

What a horrible experience, for both you and your dad. What age were you at that time? Did your father survive the heart attack?

After an episode do I feel drained......?
No, I don't. In fact I feel much better. When I go into afib I just sit down until it passes. I usually feel great until I go into it again and then it passes. It is almost like being manic depressive. I will be feeling fantastic and then suddenly fell weak. I usually just set down although sometimes when I am out I force myself through it.

Digoxin has helped to reduce episodes of tachycardia. If I do something wrong, like consume too many calories, or consume too many calories at night, or if I eat the wrong food too close to my meds, or take my meds too close together, or come into contact with various allergens or irritants, or go outside on a high pollen/pollution day, I'll have difficulty breathing, I'll feel weak, I'll get chest pains, and my heart will race and jump and skip, sometimes very weakly and sometimes very strongly. But...... this is tachycardia. How do you know that your heart rhythm problems are afib and not a tachycardia? This confuses me. As I earlier said, my heart is in a permanent state of afib, where the electrical pulses to my atrial is going berserk all of the time, but I can't feel it.

Pacemaker settings: The EP has set the low end at 60 bpm meaning it will begin pacing if my heart rate would drop below 60 which it will do if I am out of sinus. He set the high end to pace me until I hit 150. He thought I was going to be doing a lot of intensive exercising. I had asked him about it, but I meant like walking on a treadmill. Nothing like running etc. Now it is set the high end at 120. I am to call if my heart rate begins to hit 120.

Now I get it. The pacemaker doesn't kick in at 150. It kicks in at 60 and stays kicked in until 150, or 120 after he set it again. Thanks.

Foods and medicine: I take my coudamin at 5 pm and the rest are taken at 6am, 2 pm and 10 pm. The one thing I am quite sure will kick me into afib is caffeine and chocolate. Of course it may be the caffeine in the chocolate.

When I gave up chocolate and diet drinks, my blood pressure dropped by about five points, but it didn't help with the arrhythmias. If I take too much coumadin, it effects my eyesight, and it worsens my hemmoroids. If I take it too close to my other meds, I get severe cramping and constipation. Do you have any reaction to the Coumadin?

Also stress can do it, but not always.

I've had major blood pressure problems. I've taken my blood pressure about 17,000 times over the past seven years, entered the readings and corresponding notes into a database, and I do reports and charts by hour, by day, by month, by year, etc. It has helped me to understand my blood pressure, and has helped me to get my blood pressure under control.

I could not find much of a relationship between stress and my blood pressure unless I was under prolonged and significant stress. For instance, the stress of losing money in the market, has little effect on my blood pressure, but work related stress over a period of hours did have a negative effect.

I am not aware of other food interactions. I would like to know of any you have discovered.

With digoxin, I cannot eat or drink anything that contains calcium within 2½ hours of the digoxin, before or after. I can't drink grapefruit juice at all.

My case is probably a lot different than yours, since I not only have heart rhythm problems and heart failure, but I also have chemical sensitivities. All of my meals are prepared, and we use organic foods whenever we can. I am also very sensitive to dyes and materials and have to be very selective about what I wear, or my blood pressure will soar, I will have problems breathing, and my heart beat will go nuts.

I thought that I was either allergic to, or sensitive to fresh tomatoes for decades. I stayed clear of fresh tomatoes. A few months ago, I tried an organic tomato and had no reaction to it. So...... making up for lost time, I smother my "organic" salads with tons of fresh organic tomatoes! :bouncing:

I think that I will stop here for now.

I am hoping that I live long enough to address the rest of your book, I mean your post. :D

Just kidding! I appreciate the time and effort that you put into answering my questions. The more the better. Perhaps, somehow, someway, by exchanging information, something good will come of it.

Regards, and best of luck! :wave:

I was 19 when my dad died in front of me. I was able to get him breathing, but the doctor (came to home back then) could not start his heart. His chest was cut opened, the doctor massaged his heart, but he never revieved.

The stress of working over al ong period of time would cause it. I am quite sure the teaching inner city middle school is what started it all.

I eat tomatoes, but could live without them. I doooooooooooo
miss grapefruit. Boy oh Boy do I miss it. Oh, I also really watch my salt intake. I just read where it will make anyone hold water and raise blood pressure so I just make sure I don't eat too much.

No one has told me about the calcium and digoxin. I will have to remember that. There have been occassions where I have drank milk within an hour of taking my digoxin. I am happy to know this.

Thank you for your information also. This healthboard is a wonder tool.- sam