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View Full Version : How much bone is regained w/diff treatmts?


 

 

 
Foxbluff
10-15-2005, 03:56 PM
Just found out I have osteoporosis. GP recommends Forteo. If the idea of giving myself a shot everyday isn't bad enough (and it's bad), the price is outrageous! Doc says it's the only treatment that actually builds bone, so it's the right one to do.

I've been reading and reading info on the diff drug treatments, but no where can a find actual results. I need to know what percentage of bone is regained via the different treatments after a yr or so of use.

I am really dragging my feet on making a choice here and would appreciate any help you can give me.

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spinewhine
10-16-2005, 01:56 AM
Just found out I have osteoporosis. GP recommends Forteo. If the idea of giving myself a shot everyday isn't bad enough (and it's bad), the price is outrageous! Doc says it's the only treatment that actually builds bone, so it's the right one to do.

I've been reading and reading info on the diff drug treatments, but no where can a find actual results. I need to know what percentage of bone is regained via the different treatments after a yr or so of use.

I am really dragging my feet on making a choice here and would appreciate any help you can give me.

I don't now of any studies detailing the amount of bone gained by Forteo or any other drug. There are a number of us here on Forteo and a whole lot of threads that you can read through to see that a lot of us here went through the same soul searching before deciding to give it a try and others opted not to take it and go with other options. Some have already gotten improved bone density scans. I started Forteo in March and haven't had a new scan yet. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. My insurance covers the bulk of the cost, so that wasn't a concern. Being a needlephobe, the needle was a concern but that was actually pretty easy to get used to, believe it or not. Others here will tell the same tale. We're pretty proud of ourselves on that score. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

CrohnieToo
10-16-2005, 12:27 PM
Just found out I have osteoporosis. GP recommends Forteo. If the idea of giving myself a shot everyday isn't bad enough (and it's bad), the price is outrageous! Doc says it's the only treatment that actually builds bone, so it's the right one to do.

I've been reading and reading info on the diff drug treatments, but no where can a find actual results. I need to know what percentage of bone is regained via the different treatments after a yr or so of use.

I am really dragging my feet on making a choice here and would appreciate any help you can give me.

No one can predict how much bone you will or will not increase with any of these medications. It is all very much an individual thing. Your doctor is correct that Forteo is the only currently approved medication that is proven to increase bone. HOWEVER, the bisphosphonates such as Actonel and Fosamax in some people can slow bone "death" so that the natural bone "growth" can exceed the natural bone "death" and thus those people can achieve increased bone density/strength. No matter which med you decide upon calcium w/vitamin D supplementation is needed and weighted exercise is important as well.

Take into account your osteoporosis risk factors are, the degree or severity of your current osteoporosis, your other health factors and ability to take the required supplements and do the necessary activities/exercise you need to do whilst making your decision.

As to the daily self-injections: I doubt many people are greater "needle-phobes" than I was. As a child it took 3 persons to hold me down to give my my innoculations, I bit, kicked, screamed and fought them tooth and nail. I actually bit a dentist's finger to the bone in panic when he tried to numb my gums for a dental procedure. As an adult our famliy doctor had to hide the needles from me when he brought them in the exam room to give our children their innoculations and tell me when to turn my head so I didn't see it or I upchucked all over the exam room. I'm now 63 years old. It took my family doctor and his nurse TWO YEARS to convince me to even try giving my own vitamin B12 injections!!! The first time I tried in his office I pulled the needle out in a "knee jerk" reaction before I could even begin to push the plunger to release the B12. I had to "re-stick" myself! You know what tho? I managed to do it and it wasn't so bad at all. Fortunately, I had been giving myself the B12 injections weekly for several months before it was decided to start me on Forteo. The thought of actually injecting myself in the abdomen absolutely blew my mind! However, knowing I had to give the B12 once a week in the thigh and that the Forteo would be a daily injection I was concerned about "running out of places" to give myself an injection! So - I insisted that when I went to my Endo's office to learn how to give myself the Forteo injection that I be taught to do it in my abdomen AND that that WAS the way I would do my first Forteo injection there in the office. I was nervous, shakey and somewhat nauseated - but - I managed to do it!!! And it was a piece of cake!!!

Take a GOOD look at the needle that comes with the sample pack. See how short and fine it is. Its not so scarey as what we think of as a syringe and needle for giving injections in the hospital, etc. nor for blood draws or IVs.

One word of caution tho: if you decide to go with the Forteo, when you go in to pick up your first script double check the needles they sell you for the injections. I was given 5/16" long, I forget which guage needles. The needles that come with the sample pack are 3/16", 31 guage. These needles are like 3-4 x the price of the 5/16", somewhat larger guage needles my pharmacist first tried to sell me but at the time I didn't care about price, if I was going to be injecting myself in the abdomen I wanted the smallest guage, shortest needle recommended!!! Now I have both size needles. I use the 5/16" needles for my thighs and save the 3/16" for my abdomen. I rotate 4 sites on my abdomen and each thigh thru the week. I've never bruised (and I am on warfarin [Coumadin], a blood thinner for a deep vein blood clot) nor have I ever had more than a pin point of blood at any injection site. Usually, I can't even see where I gave my injection once I pull the needle out.

Good luck and God bless, whatever method you decide to use to correct your osteoporosis.

Foxbluff
10-16-2005, 07:20 PM
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer, Spinewhine. I'm finding it a bit encouraging to see other people here that seem to be as repulsed by needles as I am, and yet giving themselves a shot every day. You really should be proud of yourselves!

I know that you're correct abt not everybody gaining back bone at the same rate. Still it would sure help us make the decision if we knew whether we were looking at a potential 30% gain in 2 yrs or a 5% gain. (:

Foxbluff
10-16-2005, 07:46 PM
No one can predict how much bone you will or will not increase with any of these medications. It is all very much an individual thing. Your doctor is correct that Forteo is the only currently approved medication that is proven to increase bone. HOWEVER, the bisphosphonates such as Actonel and Fosamax in some people can slow bone "death" so that the natural bone "growth" can exceed the natural bone "death" and thus those people can achieve increased bone density/strength. No matter which med you decide upon calcium w/vitamin D supplementation is needed and weighted exercise is important as well.

Take into account your osteoporosis risk factors are, the degree or severity of your current osteoporosis, your other health factors and ability to take the required supplements and do the necessary activities/exercise you need to do whilst making your decision.

I can't believe how much time you invested in this wonderful, detailed answer! The first para alone has answered one of my biggest questions. I've been so confused because when I read lit on the pills, it says they help build bones. Then I keep reading elsewhere that Forteo is the ONLY treatmt that builds bones! Now I, at least, understand that much. LOL

I've read quickly thru your post and see so many good pts. I've printed it out to study later and will come back here tomorrow w/other comments. Thanks.

CrohnieToo
10-17-2005, 10:53 AM
You are more than welcome! I new to this osteoporosis treating myself and it took me awhile to accept and decide what course of action to take. You are going to find this forum a wealth of information and support!

newbones
10-17-2005, 01:59 PM
I agree with spinewhine and Crohnie Too. I know I did a lot of research before deciding to give Forteo a try after my doctor recommended it. We have all struggled with whether or not it is the right decision and wish there was some reassurance that it would help. There is a lot of good information on these message boards. I have been on Forteo for seven months and have not had a scan since starting it, but am hopeful there will be some improvement. I was on Actonel for a year before and though my scores didn't get any worse they didn't get any better either so my doctor recommended I try Forteo. I didn't have any of the problems with Actonel that so many seem to have though. Also, I thought I was the biggest needlephobe in the world and was somewhat ashamed for being such a big "baby", but after reading these boards I find I'm in good company. The first time with Forteo I was a basket case; I really didn't know if I could do it. But after the first week it was a piece of cake. It does help to have the small 31 gauge, 3/16" needles; most of the time I don't even feel it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Foxbluff
10-17-2005, 05:15 PM
You are more than welcome! I new to this osteoporosis treating myself and it took me awhile to accept and decide what course of action to take. You are going to find this forum a wealth of information and support!
Ohhhh, you are SO right abt this forum! It's so much easier for me to understand what "real takers" of Forteo, etc. are telling me and it's good therapy, too, to know that I'm not the only one that had trouble making a decision!

Thanks so much for giving that tip abt the different size needles. That's one example of useful info that I would never have read elsewhere.

You said that giving the injection to yourself in the abdomen turned out to be "a piece of cake". I don't doubt your honesty but that's hard to believe! The thought of giving a shot to myself in the abdomen actually makes me feel queasy. I really don't know how you're doing that. BTW, wouldn't it be better to take the daily shot in the thigh and do the weekly one in the abdomen? (That's probably a dumb question...) Maybe the needle for the B12 is longer/larger?

Foxbluff
10-17-2005, 05:36 PM
I agree with spinewhine and Crohnie Too. I know I did a lot of research before deciding to give Forteo a try after my doctor recommended it. We have all struggled with whether or not it is the right decision and wish there was some reassurance that it would help. There is a lot of good information on these message boards. I have been on Forteo for seven months and have not had a scan since starting it, but am hopeful there will be some improvement. I was on Actonel for a year before and though my scores didn't get any worse they didn't get any better either so my doctor recommended I try Forteo. I didn't have any of the problems with Actonel that so many seem to have though. Also, I thought I was the biggest needlephobe in the world and was somewhat ashamed for being such a big "baby", but after reading these boards I find I'm in good company. The first time with Forteo I was a basket case; I really didn't know if I could do it. But after the first week it was a piece of cake. It does help to have the small 31 gauge, 3/16" needles; most of the time I don't even feel it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Oh, boy, there's that "piece of cake" thing again! And you say that "most of the time" you don't even feel it. If I were to read that in a Forteo pamplet, I simply wouldn't believe it. However, I do believe you because you're not trying to sell anything. LOL

I realize that you and the other two posters that have answered me haven't been on Forteo long enough to get feedback regarding how much bone you regained. I hope all of you will share your results here each time you get a bone density test. I think that info would be welcomed by everybody w/osteo.

spinewhine
10-17-2005, 09:33 PM
You said that giving the injection to yourself in the abdomen turned out to be "a piece of cake". I don't doubt your honesty but that's hard to believe! The thought of giving a shot to myself in the abdomen actually makes me feel queasy. I really don't know how you're doing that. BTW, wouldn't it be better to take the daily shot in the thigh and do the weekly one in the abdomen? (That's probably a dumb question...) Maybe the needle for the B12 is longer/larger?


I initially could not believe I'd use my abdomen. I gave myself the shots in the thigh. After reading from several posters here that they thought the abdomen was less painful, I tried it. They were right. More fat there for me so the subcutaneous shot doesn't hit muscle as much as it did in my thigh - not that I don't have any fat in the thigh, but it does seem almost painless in the abdomen unless I just hit a bad spot and then it hurts a bit.

I don't think I could deal with the 5/16 needle and I hope I never have to try. I haven't gotten over my sissyhood all that much!

CrohnieToo
10-18-2005, 10:28 AM
Ha! 5/16" in the belly. I don't think so!! I suppose it could be done - but it sure would have to be by someone a lot braver than I am! It still amazes me I can "do" the Forteo in the abdomen and it doesn't hurt. I've never even had it be uncomfortable! "They" say the 3/16" can't penetrate past the skin layers. I don't know if "they" can sell me that tale or not but I rather doubt it! I'll have to tell you a little tale:

When I picked up my first doses of the vitamin B12 to do my own injections and I got home and saw the syringes and needles they gave me I almost died of a heart attack on the spot!!! I virtually FLEW back to the pharmacy. I "knew" my doctor had scripted the needle size we had used in his office and the ones the pharmacy gave me were NOT it!!! They gave me a 3 cc syringe which comes with a 22 guage 1 1/2" needle on it!!! Yeah! I did say 1 1/2" long needle!!! I told the pharmacist I get shorter needles than that on the syringes I get from my vet for my dog!!!! My doctor had scripted 25 guage 5/8" needle when they double checked my script. (The needles and syrings are not script items but were written on my B12 script).

I gotta tell you tho: no way would I try to give myself a B12 injection in the abdomen with that 5/8", 25 g needle!! I'm sure it can be done, I"ve read of others who do it - but not this lily livered chicken!!! Hey, I'm just proud I can do the Forteo injections in the tummy w/that little ole 31 g, 3/16" needle!!! There IS a limit to my bravery!!

Foxbluff
10-18-2005, 04:36 PM
I initially could not believe I'd use my abdomen. I gave myself the shots in the thigh. After reading from several posters here that they thought the abdomen was less painful, I tried it. They were right. More fat there for me so the subcutaneous shot doesn't hit muscle as much as it did in my thigh -
Soooo, the exact opposite of what I thought must be true. Just goes to show how much I know abt Forteo at this point in time. I'm still reading, and reading, and reading...

Foxbluff
10-18-2005, 04:55 PM
... I virtually FLEW back to the pharmacy. I "knew" my doctor had scripted the needle size we had used in his office and the ones the pharmacy gave me were NOT it!!! They gave me a 3 cc syringe which comes with a 22 guage 1 1/2" needle on it!!! Yeah! I did say 1 1/2" long needle!!! I told the pharmacist I get shorter needles than that on the syringes I get from my vet for my dog!!!!
Great story...you've made me laugh! BTW, SpineWhine finds the abdomen less painful than the thigh for Forteo injections, too. Who would have guessed?!?!

spinewhine
10-18-2005, 07:56 PM
Great story...you've made me laugh! BTW, SpineWhine finds the abdomen less painful than the thigh for Forteo injections, too. Who would have guessed?!?!


I certainly can't say that I've come to enjoy my Forteo shots, but they are quite routine now, like brushing teeth. Nothing to be feared or avoided. My hands were shaking the first time and I was so nervous I forgot to use the alcohol wipe on my body. Then I was sure I'd get a terrible infection (didn't, though). I had to have a glass of wine to calm myself when it was over.

I've told this story before, but when I asked my doctor when to take the shots, he said anytime was OK and then joked that he didn't think it went well with dinner. Actually, the first time I took it, I was so anxious to get it over with that I did it right after I got home from work because I didn't want it hanging over my head all night. I so dreaded it. Once I did it, I had that glass of wine. After that, I decided that my doctor was wrong. It goes fine with cocktails before dinner.

Foxbluff
10-19-2005, 05:08 PM
... I so dreaded it. Once I did it, I had that glass of wine. After that, I decided that my doctor was wrong. It goes fine with cocktails before dinner.
You're a hoot! As I was reading the part abt your "first time" where your hands were shaking and you needed a glass of wine afterwards...my thoughts were "If I decide to give MYSELF a shot, I'll need the wine BEFORE the shot!" Sooo, I like your style and agree w/the "It goes fine w/cocktails before dinner"... (:

CrohnieToo
10-19-2005, 11:14 PM
I'm not a wine fan, but a good margarita would do just fine! Darn! Wish I had thought of that. Got the margarita mixings, just don't have the tequila. However, THAT can be remedied tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion, girls!

spinewhine
10-21-2005, 09:27 PM
I'm not a wine fan, but a good margarita would do just fine! Darn! Wish I had thought of that. Got the margarita mixings, just don't have the tequila. However, THAT can be remedied tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion, girls!

I'm always happy to indulge in a margarita. Make me jealous and tell me you're having guacamole with that margarita.

Foxbluff
10-22-2005, 04:49 PM
Imagine being able to "look forward" each day to the time you give yourself a shot?!?! LOL

Since I'm not on Forteo, I don't know what all the warnings are on the drug store "novelette" that accompanies PXs, but before you get too invested in "happy hour", perhaps you had better check to make sure that there isn't a "Not to be taken w/alcohol" warning and a "this med may lead to alcohol dependency" warning! (:

spinewhine
10-23-2005, 11:39 AM
Imagine being able to "look forward" each day to the time you give yourself a shot?!?! LOL

Since I'm not on Forteo, I don't know what all the warnings are on the drug store "novelette" that accompanies PXs, but before you get too invested in "happy hour", perhaps you had better check to make sure that there isn't a "Not to be taken w/alcohol" warning and a "this med may lead to alcohol dependency" warning! (:


Actually, having nothing to do with Forteo, alcohol is something that isn't supposed to be good for Osteo, partly because it causes the body to lose some calcium but also because it increases the risk of falling. Hopefully, nobody here is indulging too much since we don't want to undo the good our Forteo is doing (or that we hope it's doing). My doctor said a glass of wine is fine. I'm sure I've read in a number of places that having two or more drinks a day (regularly) is definitely not a good thing to do for osteoporosis.

Foxbluff
10-24-2005, 06:03 PM
Actually, having nothing to do with Forteo, alcohol is something that isn't supposed to be good for Osteo, partly because it causes the body to lose some calcium but also because it increases the risk of falling. Hopefully, nobody here is indulging too much since we don't want to undo the good our Forteo is doing (or that we hope it's doing). My doctor said a glass of wine is fine. I'm sure I've read in a number of places that having two or more drinks a day (regularly) is definitely not a good thing to do for osteoporosis.Thanks for making that important point. I do see alcohol on ALL the lists that show all the things that can increase our likelihood of getting osteo and am glad to know that your Dr. says a glass of wine is fine. I plan to continue having a glass of red wine w/dinner, because it can help your heart, not to mention that I SO want to have it. LOL
I'm a firm believer in "everything in moderation".





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