I was thinking about this last night and I have to admit I am confused by 35 + year old men. I've dated several now; two different kinds. 1) Who have never been married and who don't have any children 2) The sort who have been married, divorced and who have children.

The ones who have been married seem to only want to talk about their ex's and basically complain about their problems. In fact in one instance, I gently told this one guy that I didn't think it was healthy for us to spend so much time focusing on his/our ex's and the problems associated whith that past relationship (he would be constantly asking me for details about one ex in particular) and I think it really shocked him and he got sort of defensive about it. I totally don't mind and actually like to hear about their children. That doesn't bother me at all.

The never-been-married guy is a totally different animal. I can't figure this guy out. I often wonder about this guy; a 35+ year old man who has never been married. Why not? What is he looking for? Is he looking for perfection; the perfect woman he wants but will never find becuse they don't exsist. I've found these guys to be much more self-centered and more quickly looking for a physical relationship.

I realize I just need to be myself no matter which of these two types of men I am dating but I wonder if I need to have a different approach when dealing with the two? Have any of you had experiences similar to what I'm talking about and if so, do you have any opinions and/or advice?

The never-been-married guy is a totally different animal. I can't figure this guy out. I often wonder about this guy; a 35+-year-old man who has never been married. Why not? What is he looking for? Is he looking for perfection; the perfect woman he wants but will never find because they don't exist. I've found these guys to be much more self-centered and more quickly looking for a physical relationship.

Join the club honey we should get shirts made. Now, I have never dated the 35+ with an x-wife involved, but I have ran into the 35+ who hasn't been married and doesn't seem like he wants to get married or even commit to anything. But he sure likes getting physical and on occasion really enjoys the emotional support when he needs it.

(Not trying to generalize, so men don't take these statements personal.) I'm not sure if these guys think that they are going to find something better, for that matter if that was the case I could clear things up pretty quick for him and let him know he isn't going to find better than us. I would also think that after 35, shouldn't they be a little more emotionally astute or realistic about the limitations of their choices? That probably sounds pretty shallow, but everybody needs to be realistic about who they match up with.

I realize that nothing I just said actually helps you any, but thought I would let you know, I know exactly where you are coming from and you are not alone.

I think men don't want to commit nowadays because they get sex and love so easily. Most women give themselves up too easily, and I am clearly one of these. It's something I finally realized about myself and I think that's why I haven't been lucky in love. If you really want a man, let him continually pursue you. Now, I am not saying that you should act like you dislike them, but just be a little out of reach, sexually for awhile, and emotionally for even longer.

I've noticed that the men who really fell for me were the ones I didn't care about one way or the other. The trick is to hold back when you really are into a man, no matter how hard it gets. The key to winning at love is to live with the uncertainty it entails. I truly believe this.

I think a good thing to do when dating is to date more than one man at a time. That way you don't obsess about just one. That's what I intend to do from now on. Although I used to think it didn't make any difference if you slept with a man right away or not, I've recently changed my view on this.

You should wait at least a month or so before doing the deed, unless you are just in it for the sex. If the man leaves, then you know for sure that's all he was after. If he stays, then you know he is really interested in YOU.

All we can do is learn from our mistakes and recognize destructive patterns we keep repeating.

Hope this helps.

I would also think that after 35, shouldn't they be a little more emotionally astute or realistic about the limitations of their choices? That probably sounds pretty shallow, but everybody needs to be realistic about who they match up with.I love this statement because I know a guy who fits this description perfectly. He's a friend and is 36, never been married, has no children. He's a decent looking guy, has a good job, very well educated. The problem is, what he want's is the "hot" girl. He's always talking about a girl who is "hot." Well guess what, that hot girl in her early 20s most likely isn't going to go for him. Another thing about him, he is very self-centered. He always jokes that "it's all about joe," meaning the world revolved around him. Please don't get me wrong, I really like this guy, he's a great person and a good friend. His expectations are way out of whack though, which makes me think, he must really not want to find someone?

If you really want a man, let him continually pursue you. Now, I am not saying that you should act like you dislike them, but just be a little out of reach, sexually for awhile, and emotionally for even longer.I think this is where I might have gone wrong with the guy who dumped me last week. I was casual about the whole thing for about 5 weeks, let him do the pursuing, didn't really let him very close. Then last weekend I let him in physically and emotionally and for whatever reason, he left. Did he get scared? I don't know. This one fell into the never-been-married category.

I think this is where I might have gone wrong with the guy who dumped me last week. I was casual about the whole thing for about 5 weeks, let him do the pursuing, didn't really let him very close. Then last weekend I let him in physically and emotionally and for whatever reason, he left. Did he get scared? I don't know. This one fell into the never-been-married category.

He probably just doesn't want a relationship with anyone right now, so don't worry about it, Reddoor! Another good thing to do before you get tied up emotionally and physically with a man is ask about their prior relationships. Don't do this right away, of course, but I would definitely find out how long their last one lasted and things like this before getting too emotionally involved.

A lot of times they will even offer the information, so look at their history.

I'm starting to think that a woman should not completely yield her heart to a man until she has an engagement ring! Even after marriage, it's always a good idea to be out of reach sometimes and not so available. It's easy to get a man, but a lot harder to keep one.

I'm starting to think that a woman should not completely yield her heart to a man until she has an engagement ring! Even after marriage, it's always a good idea to be out of reach sometimes and not so available. It's easy to get a man, but a lot harder to keep one.That's easier said than done sometimes. I just mean, when I fall for a guy, I fall no matter what I know or think I should do. There's no thought process that goes into it. I just follow my heart which clearly, I shouldn't give to someone so easily. Live and learn.

It is easier said than done to play aloof and distant. Not all women get the choice of picking any man they want. Sometimes we have to take what we are handed as well, just like I said before, face reality to your limitations.

I'm sorry to hear that you opened up to this guy and he to hike, that is a really low thing to do to a person. I don't understand how men don't relate any type of emotional attachment or even moral standards to their actions. If you sleep with a person or get intimate with a person more than once and have been friends for any period of time, there should be some form of obligation there. Not a wedding ring or a lifetime commitment, but a little something. Does that make since?

I wish I had a more sensible answer for you. I don't have the luxury greeneyes100 has with being able to just pick another man or playing hard to get, so I can only give a limited response, but it takes all kinds of response to try to figure these things out.

I don't have the luxury greeneyes100 has with being able to just pick another man or playing hard to get, so I can only give a limited response, but it takes all kinds of response to try to figure these things out.Me either. For all I know, that last guy might be the "last guy." I believe that greeneyes lives in a larger city where there are probably tons of guys on her dating site that would be desirable dates. I live in a smaller town and my choices are VERY limited. It's actually pretty depressing.

I think men don't want to commit nowadays because they get sex and love so easily. Most women give themselves up too easily, and I am clearly one of these. It's something I finally realized about myself and I think that's why I haven't been lucky in love. If you really want a man, let him continually pursue you. Now, I am not saying that you should act like you dislike them, but just be a little out of reach, sexually for awhile, and emotionally for even longer.

I've noticed that the men who really fell for me were the ones I didn't care about one way or the other. The trick is to hold back when you really are into a man, no matter how hard it gets. The key to winning at love is to live with the uncertainty it entails. I truly believe this.

I think a good thing to do when dating is to date more than one man at a time. That way you don't obsess about just one. That's what I intend to do from now on. Although I used to think it didn't make any difference if you slept with a man right away or not, I've recently changed my view on this.

You should wait at least a month or so before doing the deed, unless you are just in it for the sex. If the man leaves, then you know for sure that's all he was after. If he stays, then you know he is really interested in YOU.

All we can do is learn from our mistakes and recognize destructive patterns we keep repeating.

Hope this helps.


With all due respect, I strongly disagree with this approach. It would be a sad world if we always had to play games with the people we loved in an effort to keep them interested. The trick is not to play games and hold back but to choose the right men from the start--if women would select men who treat them well and who really like them, they wouldn't have nearly as much trouble with relationships. And Scarlet, I think you might have it backwards--it's not a luxury to have to play hard to get in an effort to get a man to want to hang around you. The real luxury comes from having lots of men be very interested in you and liking you enough so that you don't have to play any games. Instead you can just be yourself and be completely sincere and honest with them without worrying about scaring them away if you make one wrong move. To me, viewing dating as a game you have to play just right or else end up lonely seems like an unnecesssarily sad and frustrating way to approach dealing with men, which I've always considered to be extremely rewarding, fulfilling, and enjoyable when you are upfront, sincere, and relaxed around them. Now I do realize that I've been very lucky in love and that not everyone has the good fortune to have lots of nice, respectful prospects to choose from when they want to date someone, but I still firmly believe that the real reason why I've always had most guys I knew interested in me is because I DIDN'T play games (nor did I act confusing and send mixed signals, nor did I try to manipulate them into liking me and staying interested in me). Obviously you don't want to put in more effort than you're getting out of any relationship with anyone, whether you know them platonically or romantically, and you never want to throw yourself at men, but I guarantee that none of you ladies who feel unlucky in love have missed out by not playing enough games and not acting disinterested enough or ignoring guys enough.

Please trust me on this, as I know a number of other people who have also been very happy and successful in relationships, and none of them have ever been the type of person to play hard to get or play any other kind of games with potential love interests. Instead, they know the key steps required to have plenty of quality prospects interested in them at all times so they never feel bored or unlucky in love...first, you need to have confidence and believe you deserve a great partner who treats you wonderfully and be able to project this attitude and (most importantly) act accordingly. Next, you have to make sure you are smart in choosing what potential partners to pursue/give a chance to--pick people who you find intelligent, interesting, sweet, and sincere and make sure to eliminate any prospects who demonstrate ANY signs of lacking interest or respect for you. Finally, just act NORMAL, treating the opposite sex much like you treat your same sex friends--don't obsess about any one prospect, get way ahead of yourself imagining being in love and having a future together when you barely know someone, or make a big deal out of each interaction with them so that you end up acting nervous/fake/insecure (or worse, analyzing everything they do to death searching for signs they like you when in reality, if any of their behavior leaves you at all in doubt that they don't like you, you HAVE TO MOVE ON)!! Successful relationships have nothing to do with games, faking disinterest, or manipulation--in fact, trying to follow any arbitrary rules like this only turns off any and all potential partners worth having and therefore these rules and games inevitably stand in the way of finding and nourishing healthy and mutually satisfying relationships. Ultimately, a relationship works out when both people really like each other, genuinely want to be together, and aren't too skittish, insecure, or overbearing to let a relationship develop naturally over time by being as honest, upfront, and open-minded as possible. This has never failed to work for me when I've met a man I liked, and I've never seen anyone else who takes this approach have any trouble finding plenty of suitors and lots of great relationships either.

I have to agree with Stacey. I've dated lots of different guys and typically been honest and up front with my feelings. Some guys do get scared away by this, but not all of them and the ones who do just weren't right for me. I've had the good fortune to watch one of my exes in action since we broke up. He and I are on good terms after a really frustrating relationship in which he constanttly told me he needed space, I needed to focus more on myself, etc. I did notice that when I got busy or basically gave up on him, he got a lot more interested and whenever I counted on him to be around, he pulled away. Since we broke up I've watched him do the same thing with at least 5 other women in the last 2 years.

I've finally found what I want with my current bf. He's not perfect but has grown up a lot over the years, just as I have. Also, we seem to just kind of fit each other. The quirks that have been a problem with other people, just aren't for each of us. I think games work if you want to keep people around longer, but not forever and not in a way that makes you happy. I told my guy up front I was looking for a relationship and eventually marriage, but not with just anyone and that I knew it would take us a while to know if we were right for each other. I think it's important to be a little independent, but I don't want someone that I have to hold back with or pretend I don't want things from.

There are good guys out there and good guys who fit with you...it just takes a while sometimes.

Wow, I think I was misunderstood. I didn't mean that I wish to have the luxury of multiple guys knocking down my door so I get to play games with them. I hate playing games and honestly feel way too old for that crap. I think that all relationships whether friends or more should be open and honest, but some guys are pretty manipulative and they play the game at any age.

I meant, I wish I had the luxury of having multiple guys just to pick from, but in the last 7 years they have been very few and way far between, this is the reason why I agree with the whole take what you can get motto sometimes. Not accept any type of abuse or anything or less, but if it takes a little extra work or patience, some of us have to accept that. It's not that I don't have the confidence, it's I don't have the luck or the ability to pick the right guys. I have always had really bad luck with men and that has made me a little shell-shocked and skeptic.

But I have also always believed that it doesn't just come naturally, if you find somebody you are compatible with and they are wishy washy there are plenty of factors that feed into that. Not all things can be black and white and love isn't storybook or how you see it in the movies, it takes work. Companionship with a person who has some hang-ups or issues is always complicated, but somebody has to care about them too.

Trust me I wish it was all roses and chocolates and things didn't have to take time and patience. I wish it was Luv at first site and completely orgasmic, but unless somebody can tell me how that happens or give me a little direction, then its work for me.

That is why I was hoping the older I get and the older the men are I befriend, the more mature things should be. Not necessarily easier, but not so many games, but this all leads back to the original question why are guys in their 30's so complicated?

Not necessarily easier, but not so many games, but this all leads back to the original question why are guys in their 30's so complicated?We did get a little side tracked, didn't we? I think the 30+ man either is looking for something that isn't out there or they just don't want a serious relationship. I know I'm lumping them all together into one group but generally speaking, does that make sense?

Excellent topic, only I was wondering that about men close to 40 and over, since I live in New York--haha :D Men of 35 in NY are considered young stallions! But seriously, I have wondered about the same thing myself. Seems like it's a bad "investement" to date the men over 35 who have never been married because they so often turn out to have serious issues with commitment; on the other hand, some divorced men tend to have a barrage of issues concerning their ex-wife and difficult schedules because of their children. I don't know what to do. It's like, no matter which type you decide to date, it never works out because of the above problems.

I just recently talked on the phone with a 38-year-old never married man, and I was so put off when he started talking practically off the bat how his ex-gf looked like a model and was very sexual and wild, and how sex is so important in a relationship. Well, I agree it is important, but I don't think it's remotely appropriate to talk about it in the FIRST phone conversation, before he even met me!!! Am I going nuts here or have some men just lost any common sense and good manners?? :confused: He also told me I looked "hot" in my pictures and had lips that "begged to be kissed" :rolleyes: Now I don't even want to go out with this guy because I'm VERY turned off by his overt remarks. There was another guy I spoke to who was also in his late 30s, and again, he talked about how he loves 'sensual' women and talked about his ex-girlfriends and about the importance of sex in a relationship. I never bothered to answer the phone when he callled again. To me, it's distasteful that these men are so out of touch with how to be a gentleman and how to behave with a woman. It's truly appalling! Oh, and I agree that so many of them seem to be looking for something that doesn't exist. The guy who supposedly dated the "model-type" girl is not particularly attractive or even rich himself. He's just an average guy, normal looking but nothing spectacular, and certainly not wealthy. Also, he asked me what I was looking for, and I said I was looking to meet the right guy for me, and asked him the same question, and he said "I'm looking for someone who would wow me!" I was afraid to ask him for his definition of "wowing" LOL. What are these men thinking????

I have a number of high school and college buddies that fit into this here. 33-35 yrs old. 95% are married.

The ones who are not there is really no good explanation. They dates, are good looking, but marriage isn't their thing. Most arn't still looking for the perfect girl, yet, they seem to be happy with their independence and the occasional girl friend. The ones who wanted the perfect girl found her (doubt it) or they figured out at 30 that they were going to die alone if they didn't lower expectations.

The ones unmarried have a coupel things in common. They have decent jobs, but not great jobs. The generally don't manage people. They also don't seem to be an overly driven individual and they don't take a lot of risks.

Also - the ones who are married asking lots of questions are simply try not to repeat a mistake. Very normal. Now of course, obsessing is not the way to go about it. It also is a way to build yourself up by placing all the blame on someone else. I know if I were to be single again I would try to find out why someone else got divorced and why things didn't work. I might find out real quick that there is something that would be an issue for me.

I have a number of high school and college buddies that fit into this here. 33-35 yrs old. 95% are married.

The ones who are not there is really no good explanation. They dates, are good looking, but marriage isn't their thing. Most arn't still looking for the perfect girl, yet, they seem to be happy with their independence and the occasional girl friend. The ones who wanted the perfect girl found her (doubt it) or they figured out at 30 that they were going to die alone if they didn't lower expectations.

The ones unmarried have a coupel things in common. They have decent jobs, but not great jobs. The generally don't manage people. They also don't seem to be an overly driven individual and they don't take a lot of risks.

Also - the ones who are married asking lots of questions are simply try not to repeat a mistake. Very normal. Now of course, obsessing is not the way to go about it. It also is a way to build yourself up by placing all the blame on someone else. I know if I were to be single again I would try to find out why someone else got divorced and why things didn't work. I might find out real quick that there is something that would be an issue for me.

Well, but the reason some women in the same age group are single could be diametrically different than the men who are single. For most women it wasn't a choice. We wanted to get married and had boyfriends we wanted to settle down with, but they were the commitmentphobic men. A woman cannot propose, unfortunately. So, for me, it wasn't because I had "issues." I would have married my first boyfriend, probably if it was up to me. So in this light, if you were to advice your never married female friend or cousin in her 30s, would you say she has a better shot with divorced guys in that age group, or with never married guys? Just curious of a man's perspective here.

I just recently talked on the phone with a 38-year-old never married man, and I was so put off when he started talking practically off the bat how his ex-gf looked like a model and was very sexual and wild, and how sex is so important in a relationship. Well, I agree it is important, but I don't think it's remotely appropriate to talk about it in the FIRST phone conversation, before he even met me!!! Am I going nuts here or have some men just lost any common sense and good manners?? :confused: He also told me I looked "hot" in my pictures and had lips that "begged to be kissed" :rolleyes: Now I don't even want to go out with this guy because I'm VERY turned off by his overt remarks. There was another guy I spoke to who was also in his late 30s, and again, he talked about how he loves 'sensual' women and talked about his ex-girlfriends and about the importance of sex in a relationship. I never bothered to answer the phone when he callled again. To me, it's distasteful that these men are so out of touch with how to be a gentleman and how to behave with a woman. It's truly appalling! Oh, and I agree that so many of them seem to be looking for something that doesn't exist. The guy who supposedly dated the "model-type" girl is not particularly attractive or even rich himself. He's just an average guy, normal looking but nothing spectacular, and certainly not wealthy.

It is very sad that men who should be old enough to know better and even claim to be old school can't figure out how to speak to a lady. It's one thing if you are joking around and having a good time and have known each other for a while, but if it's the first phone call then a little respect should exist. That is the problem with some guys these days, no respect, no emotion, no gratitude, just sex and buddies. What is up with that? Why are they afraid to commit, you're not talking about jumping off a cliff with you, just a little more one on one time and companionship.

As for sex, yes it's important, but it's not everything. However, if you are having it there should be some emotional connection and intimacy that is counted into the relationship.

And NO it's not the same thing for women over 35 who are still single, not to group everybody together, but a great deal of us rather not be single. Don't get me wrong there are some who want the single life, but just cause we are in our 30's and don't have somebody it's not always by choice.

I don't have anyone cause I work 60 hours a week and I'm a single mom, it's hard to fit in a social life outside of the office. Instead, I have found some small comfort and remote, very remote, form of companionship with a guy I have met at the office. Don't you think that I would rather have somebody who cares about me and comforts me when I get home from a long days worth of work? Wouldn't I rather have a dinner setting on the table for me or somebody to cuddle with on cold nights? The single life, for women, isn't always by choice, but that is a discussion within itself. Sorry got off on a personal tiff.

Let's move on to you guys in your mid 30's who have commitment issues.

I'm 32 ... & I would say ... 35 isn't that far from me .... time flys.

I've never been married ... in fact, still single ... & I'm not looking for the perfect woman ... I'm just looking for someone. You know, they keep saying that in my city, there are more women than men ... but hey ... if you don't have the right connection, or you are just shy like a lot of us are ... this high ratio doesn't help @ all.

I'm very serious about relationships ... I just want someone reasonable ... reasonably good looking, with reasonably good figure, nice personality ... hmmm ... most of them have BFs or married, engaged, etc. Life is tough ...

I have to say some guys are late bloomers too .. like some women. My current boyfriend didnt start even dating honestly till he was like 24 .. I am his 3rd girlfriend ever .. he is 30. So Some have issues .... some are just ... slower at relationships than others.

I honestly think that guys in their late 30s have the upper hand when it comes to dating. Don't you think most of them want the 20 somethings?? They have this vision of the perfect "hot" gir. I am so sick of guys using that term. Don't they want more than that. What about the divorced guy. Why does all conversation have to center around his ex. He's on the phone with me or on a date with me, I'm interested in his life, but there comes a point when I want to talk about HIM and ME. It's very difficult at this age. I wish there were more men on this board to provide feedback.

Sophia - I think it's awful that a guy would talk to you like that on a first call. He'd be on my block list. You know, I've had a guy, on my second phone call, ask me what size I was!!?? This was one of the never-been-married ones who was 36. I met him and he wasn't even that attractive and his personality was a bit like battery acid.

I honestly think that guys in their late 30s have the upper hand when it comes to dating.

That's because they're in no hurry. They can still have kids when they're old men. At 50, they can still pick up some 20-year-old "hot chick" and marry her. (I personally find that gross, but it keeps happening.) It's not fair.

Sophia - I think it's awful that a guy would talk to you like that on a first call. He'd be on my block list. You know, I've had a guy, on my second phone call, ask me what size I was!!?? This was one of the never-been-married ones who was 36. I met him and he wasn't even that attractive and his personality was a bit like battery acid.

I think it's rude to ask a lady how much she weighs, but a lot of guys do it. How'd they like it if we asked how much money they made?

I think it's rude to ask a lady how much she weighs, but a lot of guys do it. How'd they like it if we asked how much money they made?

That is weird. I mean, can't he see it from the picture if you're in good shape or not?

Yeah, unfortunately, a lot of men seem to think that they have ALL the time in the world and that they can pick up a 20-something year old woman when they're close to 50. Most of them are seriosly delusional. It does happen but not often. Most 20-something women do not want 50-year-old guys. I'm 33 but I don't want to date a 50-year-old guy. Actually, I was dating two much older men when I was in my early 20s--my first two boyfriends, and that was a mistake. Oh well...life truly is weird. I never in a million years thought I would still be single in my 30s.

I'm 33 but I don't want to date a 50-year-old guy.

Neither do I, and I'm 35.

I never in a million years thought I would still be single in my 30s.

Same here. My best friend is 36; she's been with her guy for about a decade and she has an almost 5 year old kid. I always thought I would be the one to settle down first, for some reason. There must be a reason for all this, but I wish someone would tell me what it is. :confused:

Neither do I, and I'm 35.



Same here. My best friend is 36; she's been with her guy for about a decade and she has an almost 5 year old kid. I always thought I would be the one to settle down first, for some reason. There must be a reason for all this, but I wish someone would tell me what it is. :confused:

Yes, I wish someone would tell us the damn reason! Or, better yet, just send us the right guys. Then it would have been all worth it, I guess. :)

I see all these not-so attractive or overweight women on the street or on the train--and they're all married. I keep wondering, why are they so lucky? What have I been doing wrong? Sometimes I feel like walking up to them and asking: how did you accomplish this? How did you get him to fall in love with you and marry you? I feel so pathetic sometimes. To me, being an A-student in grad school is a piece of cake in comparison to finding a guy and making a relationship work. I feel like I have no control over the latter.

I see all these not-so attractive or overweight women on the street or on the train--and they're all married. I keep wondering, why are they so lucky? What have I been doing wrong? Sometimes I feel like walking up to them and asking: how did you accomplish this? How did you get him to fall in love with you and marry you? I feel so pathetic sometimes. To me, being an A-student in grad school is a piece of cake in comparison to finding a guy and making a relationship work. I feel like I have no control over the latter.

Oh, dear, I know! I feel the same way! I don't want to be a witch, but sometimes I see these REALLY unattractive women, and they're always with their husband and kids - and I think, what gives?!? What makes her so special? Is she really such a better person and so much more deserving than I am? I try so hard to improve myself in every possible way, and yet it makes no difference. :confused:

I think it's rude to ask a lady how much she weighs, but a lot of guys do it. How'd they like it if we asked how much money they made?

Or better yet how large they maybe in between, if you know what I mean jellybean. :D

Ladies you are way off base. It's not the looks or the size that these women should be condemned for; they found one of the few good ones left. They found the guy who can see who they are and realize what they are getting from the get go. Not looking for the fake girl, not looking for the shallow relationship. On the other hand, what do these men look like that these women are hooking up with?

I wish I had the answer like the rest of you. It seems to me that you all must be attractive women in great shape, at least it sounds like it. I'm a very beautiful woman and independent, but I am a big girl this adds to the whole getting a guy problem. So if you guys are in better shape and beautiful, just imagine how hard it is for the heavyset women.

I just can't imagine that all of this is suppose to be so complicated. It's not like any of us need a guy to define who we are or even have to have a man, but darn it would sure be nice to have a little companionship and one on one time.

Why do the guys have to make things so hard? If you meet somebody who has nobody and the two of you get along and make each other happy, hell, why not give it a go? It really is that simple, it shouldn't be so complicated.

I see all these not-so attractive or overweight women on the street or on the train--and they're all married. I keep wondering, why are they so lucky? What have I been doing wrong? Sometimes I feel like walking up to them and asking: how did you accomplish this? How did you get him to fall in love with you and marry you? I feel so pathetic sometimes. To me, being an A-student in grad school is a piece of cake in comparison to finding a guy and making a relationship work. I feel like I have no control over the latter.
i wonder about the same thing sometimes. mostly, i think its just timing and luck...at other times, i wonder if people settle for someone they might not want 100% just for the sake of not being alone. i would never do that anyway...thats why i'm still single for the longest time. :rolleyes:

Why do the guys have to make things so hard? If you meet somebody who has nobody and the two of you get along and make each other happy, hell, why not give it a go? It really is that simple, it shouldn't be so complicated.
i could say the same thing for all those single girls that blew me off. girls do it too. you girls make it hard on guys too.

I think both sexes focus on physical and social attributes to the detriment of the personal and spiritial attributes. I think we'd all be a little happier if we reprioritized what we were looking for, in a mate.

As a 36 year old divorced male with kids, I'll tell you why I am single. I am single because I can't find any women who like the things I like and act the way I feel is appropriate for a woman to act. I don't want to be competing with half a dozen other guys while trying to woo some woman either. I don't want a women who was married for 10+ years and then just "fell out of love" with her man. She could just as easily do the same to me. Look, in reality most good women get married at right around 20 years old. They stay married unless their hubby dies in a car wreck or some such thing. And there will ALWAYS be a guy waiting the wings for her the instant she needs someone. If she's single and never married at 36 then there is something bad wrong with her. If she's divorced at that age, it's most likely that she got bored or whatever and that kind of woman will do the same to you. In most cases the woman decides to leave and in most of those cases it's for no good reason. In the few cases where the woman was with an abusive man and she's a really good woman there will ALWAYS be some guy who saw what was coming and befriended her so he would get to be next. Good women are in extremely short supply. What you end up with are the ones that will chose their dog over you, the ones that will flip out on you for having a bad day. The ones that will make you think everything is great while she's telling her friends how she's not happy and she thinks that guy in sales is cute. Or you get a basket case who doesn't know how to be treated well and the minute you go and invest a little emotion in her she freaks out and finds a new guy who likes to beat her because that's all she knows and somehow she thinks she deserves it or that she can "change him".

The reason the divorced guys won't quit talking about it is because they are probably still in shock over it. Most never see it coming. Then like an atom bomb it sweeps away everything that ever mattered to them. Sure, they're gonna talk about it. The ones that were never married missed out for some reason when they were around 20 and there are no good choices left. If you happen to be an exception to the rule it's highly possible you could be mistaken for that huge percentage of women that are not worth a second of a man's time. Men in their mid 30's are very wary of that type of woman and any sign that you may be one of them will scare them off but good. Even if it was a false sign.

Then there's the age thing. Women don't age as well as men do. I've never met a 35 year old woman that I thought was 35. I have always thought they were older. My ex looks a good 15 years older than me. So do most women I know who are my age. So if we go out and look at women we think are the right age and they're not, well, it's not our fault. We can't help it that women get wrinkles and pooches so young. Men are wired to look for fertile females. It's in our genes. Women with wrinkles don't appear fertile. They are too old for kids. We are not. It is pure instinct that draws us to younger women. It's not that we think we're so hot and we can get young girls and all that. It's instinct coupled with the knowledge that older women that are not in a relationship are slap full of problems that no man really wants to take on. That the ones that are worth having get gotten young and after that it's the bottom of the barrel and slim pickings. So if you're looking for a good woman, you need to look for one in her early 20's. It's just a basic fact.

Just to add some balance after that last comment, which sounds like it's coming from anger over a bad break, I'd like to contribute that I think there's nothing wrong with men in their 30's or women in their 30's. We're all just busier, have less time to devote to sifting through people and are a little more independent and, as a result, a little less likely to fit ourselves into someone else's life without a really good reason. I'm in my 30's and so is my boyfriend. We're both still single because we both spent a lot of time in our 20's in big relationships that ultimately didn't work. That just happens sometimes.

I know we're all looking for something we can point to so we can understand why we're single...like what's wrong with him/her or what's wrong with us, but it's not like that. A lot of the good men/women are married by this age, but so are a lot of the bad men/women. I truly believe it's just a matter of being yourself, making your life as happy as possible and putting yourself out there being true to yourself. It's just a bumpy road along the way.

Ok. I hear people generalizing about the 35+/single type. I am that man.

Someone said we're looking for perfection, are self-centered, and looking for a physical relationship quickly. Some say also we're afraid of comitting. Well, I'm seeking a relationship with a physical component because after all this time, I'm really feeling the lack of intimacy. Its like I have a need that I just can't describe. But, I'm not afraid of committment. In my particular case, I think that I've been too self-conscious/shy for too long and now I find that the available "pool" of singles is evaporating fast. I keep getting shot down, and its hard to get back up again.

Its not so much looking for perfection but physical attraction. I have begun to lower my expectations a little. I put up a profile on some internet sites and believe it or not, I have actually had some interest. From women older than me with near-teenage kids! Not what I was looking for! I do realize that I've waited a very long time but I can't accept that this is my fate.

I tried hard to express some interest lately in a nice young woman at work who has trouble herself getting dates but was even shot down from that - and yet she still laments the fact that she can't get dates. That's got to be the point when you reach bottom - when even the lonliest person you know won't go out with you! Geez.... I think its throwing me into a spin of depression lately which is only going to complicate things more. I'm 35+ and single but I don't want to be this way!! If a woman would display any level of interest I would be responsive but it never happens, but I live in a fairly small town with not a lot of choices for singles AND work in a job whose hours have been known to hinder people's social lives.

:(

I think both sexes focus on physical and social attributes to the detriment of the personal and spiritial attributes. I think we'd all be a little happier if we reprioritized what we were looking for, in a mate.

Simple and TRUE in my opinion! I think this is the problem with most everything! Many people's values are SCREWED UP. And they 1) never straighten them out or 2) do it so much later in life or die trying.

Ok I know i'm not 30 but in my late 20's and I don't know that i'll ever marry not because I'm "a commitmentfobe" or that i'm not attractive enough or anything like that....I just don't believe in the cermony so does that mean when i'm in my 30's I will not be a good date or be good relationship material??

Also my older brother who is 30 is not married either. And for him he actually had his heart broken twice. He was supposed to get married 2 yrs ago but his fiance called it off 3 months before the wedding. And the second his GF cheated with her ex and got pregnant on purpose. So I don't blame him for not wanting to rush into anything too serious again. So sometimes there can be a good reason for being single later in life....you just have to find the right person!

As a 36 year old divorced male with kids, I'll tell you why I am single. I am single because I can't find any women who like the things I like and act the way I feel is appropriate for a woman to act. I don't want to be competing with half a dozen other guys while trying to woo some woman either. I don't want a women who was married for 10+ years and then just "fell out of love" with her man. She could just as easily do the same to me. Look, in reality most good women get married at right around 20 years old. They stay married unless their hubby dies in a car wreck or some such thing. And there will ALWAYS be a guy waiting the wings for her the instant she needs someone. If she's single and never married at 36 then there is something bad wrong with her. If she's divorced at that age, it's most likely that she got bored or whatever and that kind of woman will do the same to you. In most cases the woman decides to leave and in most of those cases it's for no good reason. In the few cases where the woman was with an abusive man and she's a really good woman there will ALWAYS be some guy who saw what was coming and befriended her so he would get to be next. Good women are in extremely short supply. What you end up with are the ones that will chose their dog over you, the ones that will flip out on you for having a bad day. The ones that will make you think everything is great while she's telling her friends how she's not happy and she thinks that guy in sales is cute. Or you get a basket case who doesn't know how to be treated well and the minute you go and invest a little emotion in her she freaks out and finds a new guy who likes to beat her because that's all she knows and somehow she thinks she deserves it or that she can "change him".

The reason the divorced guys won't quit talking about it is because they are probably still in shock over it. Most never see it coming. Then like an atom bomb it sweeps away everything that ever mattered to them. Sure, they're gonna talk about it. The ones that were never married missed out for some reason when they were around 20 and there are no good choices left. If you happen to be an exception to the rule it's highly possible you could be mistaken for that huge percentage of women that are not worth a second of a man's time. Men in their mid 30's are very wary of that type of woman and any sign that you may be one of them will scare them off but good. Even if it was a false sign.

Then there's the age thing. Women don't age as well as men do. I've never met a 35 year old woman that I thought was 35. I have always thought they were older. My ex looks a good 15 years older than me. So do most women I know who are my age. So if we go out and look at women we think are the right age and they're not, well, it's not our fault. We can't help it that women get wrinkles and pooches so young. Men are wired to look for fertile females. It's in our genes. Women with wrinkles don't appear fertile. They are too old for kids. We are not. It is pure instinct that draws us to younger women. It's not that we think we're so hot and we can get young girls and all that. It's instinct coupled with the knowledge that older women that are not in a relationship are slap full of problems that no man really wants to take on. That the ones that are worth having get gotten young and after that it's the bottom of the barrel and slim pickings. So if you're looking for a good woman, you need to look for one in her early 20's. It's just a basic fact.

A lot of misconceptions here. Most women don't get married at 20 these days. I know that was common 25+ years ago, but it doesn't hold true today. There's nothing wrong with a woman in her 30's that hasn't been married. College and career take precedence over settling with anyone just to be married.

No, most women don't stay married until their husband dies either. When they get divorced, it's usually for a good reason, not just that they're bored. What makes you think most women who have been abused have a man waiting in the wings to rescue her? Women tend to keep silent about the abuse because they're embarrassed or afraid to say anything.

I also disagree that women don't age as well as men. Women look much younger nowadays - 40 is like what 30 used to be years ago. Look at TV shows like I love Lucy, with her friend Ethel (I think was her name), and Edith on All in the Family. They're only in their 40's, but they look like they're 50. Women are much more youthful looking in this day and age. On the other hand, I've met guys who were 46-47, who had a head full of gray hair, and looked in their 50's, to me.

It sounds like you have a lot of anger towards women.

"It sounds like you have a lot of anger towards women."

You think? Why shouldn't I? If I'd had even one really good relationship in my life I would still be in it. I could go into the litany of wrongs I've suffered, but they're common and nothing any different than what any man has gone through. Suffice it to say that my previous advice and comment was based entirely on experience. And every single time I try again to find a mate I learn another lesson. Like one a few months ago. She flirted with me every single time I came into the store. She would ask my kids about me when I wasn't around. We joked around about going out to eat. She had a boyfriend so I never asked her out or anything. So one day she goes and announces to me that they broke up. I ask her out a few days later when it's become obvious that she is really interested. She tells me that it's her 3 year old daughter's birthday and to come to the party. I show up, her ex husband shows up, then her ex BOYFRIEND shows up. Guess how much time she spent talking to me in the 3 hours I was there? One sentence. "Do you want some cake?" Her kid was sweet though. I spent about an hour with her. Know what the whole thing was? It was to make her ex jealous. He's about 60, fat, poor as dirt, mean, and ugly. Then she had the gall to wonder why I wouldn't speak to her anymore. Yeah, that's another lesson in "How women are". Yeah, I have a lot of anger. It's justified and honest anger though.

Is it too much to ask for a decent, modest woman that enjoys the outdoors and being silly once in a while? That likes weird music and doesn't have lots of male friends? It probably is. At least that's what I've found.

What do you mean by weird music?

I'd rather listen the the Beatles and Cheap Trick.

"It sounds like you have a lot of anger towards women."

You think? Why shouldn't I? If I'd had even one really good relationship in my life I would still be in it. I could go into the litany of wrongs I've suffered, but they're common and nothing any different than what any man has gone through. Suffice it to say that my previous advice and comment was based entirely on experience. And every single time I try again to find a mate I learn another lesson. Like one a few months ago. She flirted with me every single time I came into the store. She would ask my kids about me when I wasn't around. We joked around about going out to eat. She had a boyfriend so I never asked her out or anything. So one day she goes and announces to me that they broke up. I ask her out a few days later when it's become obvious that she is really interested. She tells me that it's her 3 year old daughter's birthday and to come to the party. I show up, her ex husband shows up, then her ex BOYFRIEND shows up. Guess how much time she spent talking to me in the 3 hours I was there? One sentence. "Do you want some cake?" Her kid was sweet though. I spent about an hour with her. Know what the whole thing was? It was to make her ex jealous. He's about 60, fat, poor as dirt, mean, and ugly. Then she had the gall to wonder why I wouldn't speak to her anymore. Yeah, that's another lesson in "How women are". Yeah, I have a lot of anger. It's justified and honest anger though.

Is it too much to ask for a decent, modest woman that enjoys the outdoors and being silly once in a while? That likes weird music and doesn't have lots of male friends? It probably is. At least that's what I've found.


It's not like the two of you were "dating" exclusively - She just asked you to her kids birthday party. Why did you try and read more into it than what was actually there?
I am sorry that you have been "burned" to the point where it sounds like you are the leader of the "woman's hater club".
Please don't end up like my father. My mother divorced him when I was 6 yrs old. (I am 43 now) and he NEVER got over it, never dated and is bitter about it to this day. Now he is a lonely, old bitter man lives alone and feel sorry for him.
Not all women are bad people. Please don't give up on our gender just yet.

"It sounds like you have a lot of anger towards women."

You think? Why shouldn't I? If I'd had even one really good relationship in my life I would still be in it. I could go into the litany of wrongs I've suffered, but they're common and nothing any different than what any man has gone through. Suffice it to say that my previous advice and comment was based entirely on experience. And every single time I try again to find a mate I learn another lesson. Like one a few months ago. She flirted with me every single time I came into the store. She would ask my kids about me when I wasn't around. We joked around about going out to eat. She had a boyfriend so I never asked her out or anything. So one day she goes and announces to me that they broke up. I ask her out a few days later when it's become obvious that she is really interested. She tells me that it's her 3 year old daughter's birthday and to come to the party. I show up, her ex husband shows up, then her ex BOYFRIEND shows up. Guess how much time she spent talking to me in the 3 hours I was there? One sentence. "Do you want some cake?" Her kid was sweet though. I spent about an hour with her. Know what the whole thing was? It was to make her ex jealous. He's about 60, fat, poor as dirt, mean, and ugly. Then she had the gall to wonder why I wouldn't speak to her anymore. Yeah, that's another lesson in "How women are". Yeah, I have a lot of anger. It's justified and honest anger though.

Is it too much to ask for a decent, modest woman that enjoys the outdoors and being silly once in a while? That likes weird music and doesn't have lots of male friends? It probably is. At least that's what I've found.

What a wonderful attitude to have when the right women comes along. I'm sure she will be impressed...


Rather than bashing the opposite sex, we should all attempt to show a little more understanding from oneanother regarding the experiences we've had. Everyone had been "burned". Was it intentional? I highly doubt it. Holding onto anger will only leave you with a defeated attitude and a permanent frown on your face- and how can you ever expect your situation to change if that's the case? You can either say "All women in their 30's have something wrong with them/are psycho/look like they're 40", and forever carry around resentment, therefore showing acceptance of your lifetime single status... or you can open you mind just enough to let all the bitterness drain out and at least START to practice putting a smile on your face- and who knows what kind of wonderful things could be in store for you!
I can say all sorts of mean things about men! I could go on and on for hours about some of the pre-disposed ideas I have held onto regarding men in their 20's, 30's, and every age. But the fact is I can't deny the fact that I've been proven wrong every day of my life by people right in front of my face that I failed to be able to see because of my resentment. I know so many kind, mature, loving, devoted men and I see them every day. Men I work with, husbands of my friends, random people I meet, family members... Sure, they're not single or I can't be in a relationship with them, but they exist and they remind me that others like them exist too!

Everyone just needs to stop the talk about "all men", or "all women", and stop blaming the entire opposite sex for their failed relationships. We all deserve chances and we all have good inside of us. And I've always said it's better to walk around with a smile on your face all the time, because you never know when your soul mate will catch a glimpse of you... and don't you want to be smiling when he/she does?

Since I was asked, I would first say that there is absolutely no answer that is perfect. You cannot go through a bar looking for a 35+ ex married man or single guy because that is the best "group".

As a man, I would say women need to be self confident in what they want and are looking for. Don't get your hopes up too early about a man. Understand that you may have to be with a man, at some point, to see how things go. Is that so bad? Heck, if I get divorced would it be so bad if I dated 3-4 women over a couple years and slept with each one? If it means getting married again and spending 35 years with that person until I die I think it is worth it.

I agree with what many men here are struggling with. If I go to a bar with my college buddies, there are men all over the place hanging on the girls. Most of the good looking men are talking to the good looking women and the second group of men and women are wishing they were talking to that same group.

A man can be outgoing but in that setting will just stay to himself and have some drinks. Look for those men. I believe the men who have class are not going to go into a bar and hit on every girl in there looking for one to bite.

I think to throw out a group because they are single or formally married is narrowing your choices too far. But, if you know in your heart that you want someone who has never been married or has been married then that is OK.

Understand that even if you find someone perfect, that may not last forever. Make sure there are other things there that you will be good with in 10 years. Personality, laughter, common interests, hobbies, church, etc.

Some divorced men deserve what they get. Some get a raw deal. Some single men are careful to find someone they mesh with and if it happens at a later age that is OK. Some single men just need that women to approach them and they want to feel good about having someone interested in them.

That the ones that are worth having get gotten young and after that it's the bottom of the barrel and slim pickings. So if you're looking for a good woman, you need to look for one in her early 20's. It's just a basic fact.I don't even know where to start this response but I DISAGREE! I'm 37, will be 38 in February. I am told constantly that I look like I'm in my mid to late 20s. I take care of myself, am educated, have a great job, am told I'm not so bad to look at. The girls in their 30s are not slim pickings! The "good" ones without issues and problems might be harder to find but WE are out there. I understand where you are coming from because your post sounds like us ladies when we are venting or frustrated. I know what it's like. It's hard to find that one person. But please know, there are some exceptional women out there who are looking for someone like you.

I don't even know where to start this response but I DISAGREE! I'm 37, will be 38 in February. I am told constantly that I look like I'm in my mid to late 20s. I take care of myself, am educated, have a great job, am told I'm not so bad to look at. The girls in their 30s are not slim pickings! The "good" ones without issues and problems might be harder to find but WE are out there. I understand where you are coming from because your post sounds like us ladies when we are venting or frustrated. I know what it's like. It's hard to find that one person. But please know, there are some exceptional women out there who are looking for someone like you.

Here, here Reddoor! I'm 43 and look like I'm 30. Xevookie sounds very bitter and is generalizing about women over 35. Hey, I guess we all have a tendency to generalize but c'mon. I think one of the reasons I'm single is that I won't settle for someone that doesn't rock my world on all levels. I might be misguided about this, and if I settled I would be married by now, but it's just not in me to be with someone that I don't have a real connection with physically, intellectually and emotionally.

I don't really have any answers to this question, but I will share my experiences. I have dated two older men, one who was twice my age when I was twenty, and the man I am in love with right now who is 10 years older than me. Anyway, the man who was twice my age was very well educated, he is a doctor, settled, divorced with a daughter. This man loved me very much, wanted to marry me and give me a good life. I was young, stubborn, just didn't want what he was wanting, not at the pace he was setting anyway, so I ended it. He never did marry again, that has been 7 years ago. Sometimes I wonder what my life would be like if I would have stayed with him, but I know he wasn't the one because I was never madly in love with him the way I am my ex. The man I am still in love with is 10 years older than me, and very set in his ways. Although I believe he loved me, he hadn't been in a serious relationship for 5 years, had been divorced for 11 and has a daughter. He used everything about my past against me, including the fact that I had dated the older man, he just thought that was terrible, and in the end that was most of the reason why I ended it was because of his verbal abuse to me. I spent 2 years trying to explain every mistake I had ever made my whole entire life to this man, begging him to love me and accept me for the wonderful person I had become, and hearing alot of "I can't be with you, you morally compromise me, you have character flaws, bad character, history of bad decision making, so on and so on, pretty much destroyed every ounce of self-esteem and confidence I had in myself. And before him, I was very self-confident and sure of myself. So, who knows why men are the way they are? And even better, I am almost to the point to say "Who gives a D***?

Is it too much to ask for a decent, modest woman that enjoys the outdoors and being silly once in a while? That likes weird music and doesn't have lots of male friends? It probably is. At least that's what I've found.I like "weird" music!

so let me get this straight, xevookie. i want to make sure i understand. it's better to have married, had children, and failed at the relationship than it is to remain single? i'm 34, and i am thankful every day that i didn't rush into anything like marriage when i wasn't ready. if that makes something 'bad wrong' with me, then so be it. i look around at people i know that are married, and i feel comparatively mentally healthy.

and as far as the late-thirties guys wanting young chickies... i live in n.y.c., so maybe it's different here, but every guy i know is dating someone older than him, sometimes considerably so. my 38-year-old brother is dating a 53-year-old woman who looks fantastic and has a great career. he went on lots of dates with 20-somethings and was just bored.

finally... i'm not sure it's a productive mindset to see a seemingly unnattractive woman with a wedding ring on her finger and automatically assume that she somehow 'got' something we didn't. how do we know what that marriage is like? it could be great, it could be terrible, it could be abusive, it could be her settling. we don't know. it could be her fifth marriage or her first. it could be that she's wearing the ring, but the guy with her is the guy she's having an affair with. and if love had anything remotely to do with looks, the species would have died out long ago.

finally... i'm not sure it's a productive mindset to see a seemingly unnattractive woman with a wedding ring on her finger and automatically assume that she somehow 'got' something we didn't. how do we know what that marriage is like? it could be great, it could be terrible, it could be abusive, it could be her settling. we don't know. it could be her fifth marriage or her first. it could be that she's wearing the ring, but the guy with her is the guy she's having an affair with. and if love had anything remotely to do with looks, the species would have died out long ago.

I agree with this totally. Until we know a strangers life it becomes pointless to envy it. As a matter of fact, knowing that strangers life might make you appreciate your own even more.

I agree with this totally. Until we know a strangers life it becomes pointless to envy it. As a matter of fact, knowing that strangers life might make you appreciate your own even more.

Excellent advice!

Here is something most of you have probably seen. It's a little note from Andy Rooney about older women. I especially love the last comment.
I think it's great and right on the money! Enjoy!


Ladies,

As I grow in age, I value women who are over 40 most of all. Here are just a few reasons why:

A woman over 40 will never wake you in the middle of the night to ask, "What are you thinking?" She doesn't care what you think.

If a woman over 40 doesn't want to watch the game, she doesn't sit around whining about it. She does something she wants to do. And it's usually something more interesting.

A woman over 40 knows herself well enough to be assured in who she is, what she is, what she wants and from whom. Few women past the age of 40 give a damn what you might think about her or what she's doing.

Women over 40 are dignified. They seldom have a screaming match with you at the opera or in the middle of an expensive restaurant. Of course, if you deserve it, they won't hesitate to shoot you if they think they can get away with it...

Older women are generous with praise, often undeserved. They know what it's like to be unappreciated.

Women get psychic as they age. You never have to confess your sins to a woman over 40. They always know.

A woman over 40 looks good wearing bright red lipstick. This is not true of younger women or drag queens.

Once you get past a wrinkle or two, a woman over 40 is far sexier than her younger counterpart.

Older women are forthright and honest. They'll tell you right off you are a jerk if you are acting like one. You don't ever have to wonder where you stand with her....

Yes, we praise women over 40 for a multitude of reasons. Unfortunately, it's not always reciprocal. For every stunning, smart, well-coiffed, hot woman of 40+, there is a bald, paunchy relic in yellow pants making a fool of himself with some 22-year-old waitress.

Ladies, I apologize for all of us.

Andy Rooney

Here is something most of you have probably seen. It's a little note from Andy Rooney about older women. I especially love the last comment.
I think it's great and right on the money! Enjoy!


Ladies,

As I grow in age, I value women who are over 40 most of all. Here are just a few reasons why:

A woman over 40 will never wake you in the middle of the night to ask, "What are you thinking?" She doesn't care what you think.

If a woman over 40 doesn't want to watch the game, she doesn't sit around whining about it. She does something she wants to do. And it's usually something more interesting.

A woman over 40 knows herself well enough to be assured in who she is, what she is, what she wants and from whom. Few women past the age of 40 give a damn what you might think about her or what she's doing.

Women over 40 are dignified. They seldom have a screaming match with you at the opera or in the middle of an expensive restaurant. Of course, if you deserve it, they won't hesitate to shoot you if they think they can get away with it...

Older women are generous with praise, often undeserved. They know what it's like to be unappreciated.

Women get psychic as they age. You never have to confess your sins to a woman over 40. They always know.

A woman over 40 looks good wearing bright red lipstick. This is not true of younger women or drag queens.

Once you get past a wrinkle or two, a woman over 40 is far sexier than her younger counterpart.

Older women are forthright and honest. They'll tell you right off you are a jerk if you are acting like one. You don't ever have to wonder where you stand with her....

Yes, we praise women over 40 for a multitude of reasons. Unfortunately, it's not always reciprocal. For every stunning, smart, well-coiffed, hot woman of 40+, there is a bald, paunchy relic in yellow pants making a fool of himself with some 22-year-old waitress.

Ladies, I apologize for all of us.

Andy Rooney


SusieQ, you made my day, honey! :D

Thanks Suzie! I'm going to send that to all my girlfriends here at work. There's a lot of truth there.

that's cool.. :cool: how many 40+ women like younger guys?? :D :D :bouncing:

Thanks Suzie! I'm going to send that to all my girlfriends here at work. There's a lot of truth there.



Everytime I read it I just have to giggle. How right on is this!???? And I have to say this is EXACTLY how I feel now that I am older and wiser. Poo Poo to all the crap I took as a younger woman! :bouncing:

I just had a conversation with a 36 year old single man about dating. He said, "I don't have a problem getting a date, just getting a date with someone worth while." I don't know what to think of that. Is that comment one of those "too high expectations" traits that some guys seem to have? Maybe men are in the same dating boat as us girls. Mabye it really is slim-pickins out there.

I just had a conversation with a 36 year old single man about dating. He said, "I don't have a problem getting a date, just getting a date with someone worth while." I don't know what to think of that. Is that comment one of those "too high expectations" traits that some guys seem to have? Maybe men are in the same dating boat as us girls. Mabye it really is slim-pickins out there.

Did you read my post? I ask because the comment this guy said really hit home with me.

So, who knows why men are the way they are? And even better, I am almost to the point to say "Who gives a D***?I know what you're saying. I was just sort of dumbfounded when he made the "worth while" comment because here I am talking to this guy who knows I'm single and he makes that comment. I think I'm worth while!

you are worthwhile, reddoor! clearly, he's confused.

Oh my gosh, Reddor, do you see what you've started?? :D :D People are very emotional about relationships, and it looks like a lot of people of BOTH sexes have been terribly burned by the wrong person(s) and that's why we are sometimes feeling slightly bitter. Yeah, when I was in my early 20s, I also dated a man who was a lot older (more than 10 years). I loved that man and wanted to spend my life with him, which he promised many times. Yes, at that age, I had virtually no "baggage," relationship wise. He was only my second boyfriend. He should have been thrilled to marry me, but it was HIM who bailed and broke my heart. I was definitely 'worthwile' and a great catch for him, way too good for him actually (but I can only see it now), so now because he discarded me after a few years of living together and didn't marry me, is that supposed to somehow reflect on ME??? Just because that jerk could not appreciate or cherish what he had and screwed up my life, I should consider it MY fault? I refuse.

Being that I just left the mentioned group with 5 months to spare. I came to the believe that everyone seems to be looking for the ultimate person to go with their ultimate self. So many people raise the bar so high. Maybe it"s time to look at a potential SO as person not an image.

I can't speak for all men over 30, but I have two male friends, never married, one 40, one almost 37. Both are a little immature for their age. These guys do not seem like they could handle an adult relationship with a woman their age who had their act together. The younger girls seem "safer" to them. (Not sure why since it's usually the younger girl who will go after a car windshield with a baseball bat).

The 40 year old had a chance to propose to a 27 year old woman he was serious with, who said she was ready for marriage. He really DID love her. When I asked him why he wasn't asking her, he was in a fog. He had no excuse not to. But he wasn't out buying a ring. She promptly dumped him, immediately got married to someone else, and he has been Mr. Bitter for the past 2 years.

The 37 year old has had the same job without promotion for the past 6 years and seems fine with that (even though he has a college degree). For someone who likes familiarity so much, marriage seems like it would be the perfect fit for him. He keeps long distance relationships. He seems distressed that most people we know have already been married for 10 years, but admits that he likes his alone time.

I think both guys never wanted to really "grow up" (whatever growing up means to them) Maybe the younger girl represents "time" to them...more "time" to decide, more "time" to waste, more "time" to feel young again themselves....but time has passed regardless, and here they are....

I think men don't want to commit nowadays because they get sex and love so easily. Most women give themselves up too easily, and I am clearly one of these. It's something I finally realized about myself and I think that's why I haven't been lucky in love. If you really want a man, let him continually pursue you. Now, I am not saying that you should act like you dislike them, but just be a little out of reach, sexually for awhile, and emotionally for even longer.

I've noticed that the men who really fell for me were the ones I didn't care about one way or the other. The trick is to hold back when you really are into a man, no matter how hard it gets. The key to winning at love is to live with the uncertainty it entails. I truly believe this.

I think a good thing to do when dating is to date more than one man at a time. That way you don't obsess about just one. That's what I intend to do from now on. Although I used to think it didn't make any difference if you slept with a man right away or not, I've recently changed my view on this.

You should wait at least a month or so before doing the deed, unless you are just in it for the sex. If the man leaves, then you know for sure that's all he was after. If he stays, then you know he is really interested in YOU.

All we can do is learn from our mistakes and recognize destructive patterns we keep repeating.

Hope this helps.

Wow, greeneyes, we really are two peas in a pod!! Reading your post made me feel like I was reading my own thoughts!!

In the past, as you also mentioned, I didn't wait so long for guys. I would sleep with them not instantly, but at least I wouldn't wait 6 months.

But, now, I've really come to realize that no matter how progressive a guy is, he will ALWAYS think less of you if you have sex too quickly and if he has any kind of feelings for you, he will wait for you to be ready.

I have known - and been interested in - a guy for about 5 months who has always pursued me relentlessly. He would talk to all of his friends about me, call me at 3am telling me he's 'so in love' with me etc, etc. At the time I had a boyfriend so I didn't do anything but hang out/have drinks/dinner etc.

But, since my relationship ended we have kissed - and nothing else - and I am DETERMIND to NOT have sex with him for a least a few more months. I think so far that its working in my favor.

I like "weird" music!

Ever hear any early Devo? How about Beck before he got famous? Or Pink Floyd's first few albums?

I am sure there are good women out there. If there wasn't I wouldn't still have some hope that I will find one someday. I am just saying that they are few and far between. Soon my loneliness will overcome my better sense and I will try again. I can pretty much guaruntee that the next woman I happen to fixate on will either have a parade of men in and out of her house, be an alcoholic, just be over some guy that she isn't sure she's really over yet or not, has violent mood swings, was abused by someone and now can't get over it, or some other thing.

But I can't know that until I find out. And what if she's not like that and actually likes me? Then I'll treat her like a queen until the day she changes her mind and runs off to some other guy. Which they all do eventually. I'm not looking for Miss Perfect. Just someone I can trust. Haven't met one yet. If they were plentiful doesn't it stand to reason I would have actually met one by now? Even one that wasn't my type? I mean single women. I've met plenty of married women that are salt of the Earth. Really wonderful people. But they are married and will stay that way no matter what.

I'm not looking for Miss Perfect. Just someone I can trust. Haven't met one yet. If they were plentiful doesn't it stand to reason I would have actually met one by now?

Well, that's EXACTLY my logic, only I'm a woman. I could have written the above myself. As could many of the wonderful, beautiful single women here who have been through hard times. Actually, your post in a way made me have more faith in men, cause sometimes in my darkest moments I was thinking why even bother with men at all, since men don't even seem to be capable of feelings or becoming emotionally attached to any woman who treats them remotely well and is not a psycho. They seem to get hooked on the drama queens who leave them one week for some guy and them want them back in a couple more weeks, back and forth. But you see, there are jerks of each gender and there are decent people in each too. Which is not related to age, either, as we've concluded. Good luck Xev, I hope the next woman you meet will be everything you've ever dreamt of. And I'm glad you're keeping the hope alive. As much as I sometimes complain, deep down I also have some hope left to meet a guy who I can love and trust and be myself with. Here's hoping that all us not-by-choice singletons do!

I can pretty much guaruntee that the next woman I happen to fixate on will either have a parade of men in and out of her house, be an alcoholic, just be over some guy that she isn't sure she's really over yet or not, has violent mood swings, was abused by someone and now can't get over it, or some other thing.

But I can't know that until I find out. And what if she's not like that and actually likes me? Then I'll treat her like a queen until the day she changes her mind and runs off to some other guy. Which they all do eventually. I'm not looking for Miss Perfect. Just someone I can trust. Haven't met one yet. If they were plentiful doesn't it stand to reason I would have actually met one by now? Even one that wasn't my type? I mean single women. I've met plenty of married women that are salt of the Earth. Really wonderful people. But they are married and will stay that way no matter what.
dude, i somehow feel exactly the same way. i see no hope out there and i'm not even 30 yet!! :eek: actually, the situations you describe begin even as early as when they graduate from college. if you're not hooked up/married by the time you're done with college, you face pretty much the same challenges. the pool might be a bit bigger but not by much and its still tough to meet people.

ahh i haven't seeing this thread before..men in the 30's

Oh well since I have dated so many of them I can give some feedback too.

Yes there is nothing wrong with 30+ men that are single. I have met wonderful, caring single men of 35+ that have approached to me wanting a serious loving committed relationship. I'm 32 and single and I know there is nothing wrong with me. I come from a country of shortage of men and I spent all my late 20's studying graduate school and working full time. There are so many reasons why one is single. I know I am a catch! Actually the guys I have dated 35+ that have never been married are the ones I have found to be the less commitment phobic of all. (I'm not in NYC)

There are many guys and ladies of all ages that are wonderful and they are just single because they don't have good looks, it is very hard for people to see the inside beauty if you cann't see the outside one.

And that is true of the married folks you don't know what is happening. I know if I take a look at my coworkers that are married only one seems to be in a happy loving marriage, the rest of them have marriages I do not envy in the least.

ladivapr

Ever hear any early Devo? How about Beck before he got famous? Or Pink Floyd's first few albums?Yes, yes and yes.Then I'll treat her like a queen until the day she changes her mind and runs off to some other guy. Which they all do eventually. I'm not looking for Miss Perfect. Just someone I can trust. Haven't met one yet.The thing is, they all don't run off with another guy! I promise. You've had some bad experiences but it's not always like that. Maybe that attitude is in some way holding you back or causing the end result of your relationship(s). Just a thought?? Is it possible you sabotage relationships? Don't take that the wrong way please!!! I've sabotaged a few myself (leave/hurt him before he has a chance to leave/hurt me).

Yes, yes and yes.The thing is, they all don't run off with another guy! I promise.


Really?! I am stunned. So, which do you think is better, Beck or Devo? I find myself going back and forth between the two. One day it might be "Totally Confused" going through my head and then next it might be "Golden Energy". I can't imagine not having to change the cd when riding with someone or getting flack for my choice of music. I bet you go through the same thing.

I guess they don't all run off. Some are too lazy ;). I don't think it's me. I am not hard to get along with. In fact, recently my son's ex girlfriend's mother (an insane 30 something divorcee) got mad at my son for breaking up with her daughter and called social services on us with a bunch of made up crap. Of course there had to be an investigation. It's the rules. (Thankfully it was followed by a prosecution....hers) But the social worker couldn't stop telling me what a great father, uncle, business person and all around man I am. It was embarrassing to hear anyone talk about me like that. But that's after a full investigation from someone who deals with the public every day. So according to at least Union County, I am a candidate for father of the year and best all around guy. I don't lie, cheat, steal, drink, womanize, or anything of the sort. I have an even temper and (thanks to being a full time single parent) a great deal of patience. The only way I could be a better person is if I was rich and gave it all away. I am fit, healthy, have all my hair, tall, strong, don't stink (except after work) and brush my teeth every day. Other than poverty I can't think of anything that would dissuade a nice woman from liking me. No, wait. Here's one. I can be silly. Prance around and act a fool for no reason sometimes. And sometimes I do silly things like build an inboard motor canoe. Or make a forge and cast some lead into interesting shapes. Or build a dam across the creek in the back yard. But no one ever sees that side of me except family. So how could that be a factor?

I don't lie, cheat, steal, drink, womanize, or anything of the sort. I have an even temper and (thanks to being a full time single parent) a great deal of patience. The only way I could be a better person is if I was rich and gave it all away. I am fit, healthy, have all my hair, tall, strong, don't stink (except after work) and brush my teeth every day. Other than poverty I can't think of anything that would dissuade a nice woman from liking me. No, wait. Here's one. I can be silly. Prance around and act a fool for no reason sometimes. And sometimes I do silly things like build an inboard motor canoe. Or make a forge and cast some lead into interesting shapes. Or build a dam across the creek in the back yard. But no one ever sees that side of me except family. So how could that be a factor?You're my dream man!! Now if I could only find you :) .

I like Beck and am familiar with Devo, although I'm not a huge fan or anything. These days I'm really into Radiohead, Interpool, P.J. Harvey. But to answer your question, people often ask "what the heck are you listening to" as well. Everyone has different taste.

Just keep at it. You'll find that right girl.

In fact, recently my son's ex girlfriend's mother (an insane 30 something divorcee) got mad at my son for breaking up with her daughter and called social services on us with a bunch of made up crap. Of course there had to be an investigation. It's the rules. (Thankfully it was followed by a prosecution....hers) But the social worker couldn't stop telling me what a great father, uncle, business person and all around man I am. It was embarrassing to hear anyone talk about me like that. But that's after a full investigation from someone who deals with the public every day. So according to at least Union County, I am a candidate for father of the year and best all around guy.

I know this may not be relevant to the topic of this thread, but isn't it customary for the mother to be awarded custody of kids in a divorce, or is it usually the father? The reason I ask is because I met a nice woman who is divorced and does not have custody full time. I'm wondering if that's a "red flag". Both her and the ex live here in the same city and she has a decent house. I always thought the mother got the kids unless the divorce court deems the father a better parent or something like that.

Bruce .. I think that might be another thread ... you should start one.

I know this may not be relevant to the topic of this thread, but isn't it customary for the mother to be awarded custody of kids in a divorce, or is it usually the father? The reason I ask is because I met a nice woman who is divorced and does not have custody full time. I'm wondering if that's a "red flag". Both her and the ex live here in the same city and she has a decent house. I always thought the mother got the kids unless the divorce court deems the father a better parent or something like that.

Well, sometimes the mother might not want to get the primary custody. There are some women who, while being decent people, are just not cut out to be good mothers. Or sometimes the woman might not be in a good financial position to take care of the children. Who knows? But yes, you should find out.

"I know this may not be relevant to the topic of this thread, but isn't it customary for the mother to be awarded custody of kids in a divorce, or is it usually the father?"

In my case she was a horrible mother and knew it. She knew it would be impossible to party every day and be a "free spirit" so she gave them to me. It was one of only three good decisions she ever made. Two of her sisters have lost kids to social services. They were given to their fathers. In most cases women that give up their kids aren't responsible and don't understand love they way they should. That leads to problems in relationships and substance abuse. While each case may vary, in general it's a good idea to avoid women who don't have any contact with their kids. Shared custody is another story and it gets real complicated. But any woman who will abandon her children will abandon you too.

I have a problem and I'm hoping the "regulars" or more experienced online daters can help me out. There is this guy I've been chatting with online for a week or two that I'm confused about. I want to start off by saying, I'm not a shallow or judgemental person at all. At the same time, this guy has been pretty agressive - only online - has never once asked to talk to me in person but has said several times that he wants to see me. I am a professional, working woman. He is in a band; a drummer. He has told me he can't drive for another two months; I'm assuming something bad happend there but I didn't push. He doesn't really have a job. He says he works in landscaping but when I ask him what he's done today, he replys, "cut grass." He's never been married and doesn't seem to want that. He is very cute. BUT, I'm thinking about all the threads here and how I shouldn't think of every contact as a potential husband, etc. Should I just pursue this for fun or is it useless since I want more than that. Should I waste my time?

Hi Red :wave: Too many red flags here IMHO. :nono: Why have fun with a potential trainwreck??? You have been way too hurt to try to dodge all the flags I see waving here. Keep looking and follow that great intuition you have. ;)

There is a BIG difference between having fun and jumping head first into a disaster :eek: Unless you are a big risk taker :D

I am sure that you will come across a guy who drives, is gainfully employed, and does more than cut the grass as a hobby and is cute too!!! ;)

(((HUGS))) ~ Goody :angel:

That's what I was thinking too Goody. The thing is people here have been telling me to "have fun" an not look at every guy as a potential "husband." I have to admit I'm confused. I really knew the answer before you even gave it. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't beeing too shallow or picky. He may be cute but for sure, not for me.

I have a problem and I'm hoping the "regulars" or more experienced online daters can help me out. There is this guy I've been chatting with online for a week or two that I'm confused about. I want to start off by saying, I'm not a shallow or judgemental person at all. At the same time, this guy has been pretty agressive - only online - has never once asked to talk to me in person but has said several times that he wants to see me. I am a professional, working woman. He is in a band; a drummer. He has told me he can't drive for another two months; I'm assuming something bad happend there but I didn't push. He doesn't really have a job. He says he works in landscaping but when I ask him what he's done today, he replys, "cut grass." He's never been married and doesn't seem to want that. He is very cute. BUT, I'm thinking about all the threads here and how I shouldn't think of every contact as a potential husband, etc. Should I just pursue this for fun or is it useless since I want more than that. Should I waste my time?


Not quite me, but close. I don't have a band, but I play guitar and bass, not drums. I do really have a job. I own a landscaping company. There's no office, no other employees other than my kids on a rare occasion. I don't work full time, that would be impossible. But I do manage to support 7 people on a part time job. So what did I do today? I cut grass. Blew some leaves too. That's about it. Unless something breaks there just isn't much to the work day if you're a landscaper. I was married for 5 years, the last two seperated. I would love to marry the right girl. I hate being single. So there's another difference. Oh, and I drive about 500 miles a week.

You're my dream man!! Now if I could only find you

You did. Only it was on a forum where the rules state you can't give out contact information. Ain't that the way it always goes?

You did. Only it was on a forum where the rules state you can't give out contact information. Ain't that the way it always goes?Yes, you're right. It is always the way it goes. You'll find the right girl, when you least expect it. I promise.

I have a problem and I'm hoping the "regulars" or more experienced online daters can help me out. There is this guy I've been chatting with online for a week or two that I'm confused about. I want to start off by saying, I'm not a shallow or judgemental person at all. At the same time, this guy has been pretty agressive - only online - has never once asked to talk to me in person but has said several times that he wants to see me. I am a professional, working woman. He is in a band; a drummer. He has told me he can't drive for another two months; I'm assuming something bad happend there but I didn't push. He doesn't really have a job. He says he works in landscaping but when I ask him what he's done today, he replys, "cut grass." He's never been married and doesn't seem to want that. He is very cute. BUT, I'm thinking about all the threads here and how I shouldn't think of every contact as a potential husband, etc. Should I just pursue this for fun or is it useless since I want more than that. Should I waste my time?

One word, girl: USELESS. There's nothing about this man other than his cute looks that could possibly be appealing to you. And looks don't take you very far if other important qualities are missing. I think if someone clearly has no potential whatsoever, there's no point in going out with him. I'm assumming he's in his mid to late 30s, right? And he "cuts grass" for a living and plays in a band. Good for him, but I guarantee you this guy is not ready for any kind of a serious relationship, which he already indicated. I would not bother with him. I think yes, at our age we do have to at least consider if a man could make a potentially good husband. I think it's only smart.

If you need your lawn cut or entertainment for a party. Go for it.

Ok, so what about a 30-something man who is in the process of getting a PhD, and is seriously considering extending his studies to get an MD, which would take four + more years (after the PhD)? It's a bit of an extreme in the opposite direction, so I'm curious what you think of that.

I think if someone clearly has no potential whatsoever, there's no point in going out with him. I'm assumming he's in his mid to late 30s, right? And he "cuts grass" for a living and plays in a band.Just so you guys know, I actually do take your advice. You are right. I knew it all along. I just thought I might be being too hard on him or too shallow. This is a disaster waiting to happen. I don't need that in my life. I've had enough problems recently without inviting more in. Thanks.

Ok, so what about a 30-something man who is in the process of getting a PhD, and is seriously considering extending his studies to get an MD, which would take four + more years (after the PhD)? It's a bit of an extreme in the opposite direction, so I'm curious what you think of that.Well, it's better than the grass cutting, drummer; that's for sure. I think it could work if you are a patient person and he is willing to make time with you a priority. If he's going to be all-consumed with the school/career and not make you a priority, I think there is a chance for heartache. What do you think?

I love this statement because I know a guy who fits this description perfectly. He's a friend and is 36, never been married, has no children. He's a decent looking guy, has a good job, very well educated. The problem is, what he want's is the "hot" girl. He's always talking about a girl who is "hot." Well guess what, that hot girl in her early 20s most likely isn't going to go for him. Another thing about him, he is very self-centered. He always jokes that "it's all about joe," meaning the world revolved around him. Please don't get me wrong, I really like this guy, he's a great person and a good friend. His expectations are way out of whack though, which makes me think, he must really not want to find someone?

Reminds me of me to be honest. I am 30 and would like to find someone but it has taken me a long time to realise that I need to lower my expectations. If I become more realistic then it is likely to help with my self-confidence.

Yall can be down on grass cutting all you want. But I make between $40 and $60 an hour doing it. It's not a bad job. A man is not his job. A job is what you do to live. Nothing more. So, a guy who cuts grass is what, lower than some doofus who makes $15 an hour at UPS? My brother in law is one of the top store managers at Wendy's. He makes $14.25 an hour. My mother is a manager at Foodlion, she makes $12 an hour. So how can I make more per hour than my mother, both brother in laws, and my teacher sister combined if cutting grass is a loser job? Why do they and their families depend on what I make to get them through if landscaping is a nowhere job? I'm poor, but that's because I have to give my money to others so they can keep their power on, cars running, mortgages paid, etc. If I was selfish and greedy I would have plenty of money. And I only have to work 15-20 hours a week. I can't be fired, go to work when I want, come home when I want, don't have to talk to anyone, stay fit, keep a deep tan, get to be outside in the fresh air, and get plenty of time to think and daydream.

And yall are down a guy who does this? That's just silly. Now, if he works for a landscaper that is a different story altogether. They don't get paid squat. But a guy who cuts grass on his own? You've no idea how good he's got it. You can have your office full of stinky people and politics. I've been there. Hated it with a passion. No matter how many commendations I got or how many times the NRC patted me on the back for being effecient I just couldn't stand being there. Sitting in the same spot for 40 hours a week? No way. No friggin way.

Don't judge a guy by his job. Judge him by his character. Judge him by the way he interacts with his family and friends. But not his job. That's just low.

Don't judge a guy by his job. Judge him by his character. Judge him by the way he interacts with his family and friends. But not his job. That's just low.I can only speak for myself here... I'm sorry if it came off sounding like that. I'm not judging that guy by his job. I wouldn't have started talking to him in the first place if I were. It's the whole package. The first red flag was when he told me he couldn't drive until the end of December. Something is wrong there. Also, he's in a band and is always talking about "picking girls up." I don't want any part of that. In addition, his attitude about relationships isn't in sync with what I want. He is obviously a 33+ guy who enjoys his freedom and picking girls up. I don't intend to be one of those girls. If it was simply a matter of what he does for a living, sure I'd date him. Again, didn't mean to offend and I didn't mean it that way.

I can only speak for myself here... I'm sorry if it came off sounding like that. I'm not judging that guy by his job. I wouldn't have started talking to him in the first place if I were. It's the whole package. The first red flag was when he told me he couldn't drive until the end of December. Something is wrong there. Also, he's in a band and is always talking about "picking girls up." I don't want any part of that. In addition, his attitude about relationships isn't in sync with what I want. He is obviously a 33+ guy who enjoys his freedom and picking girls up. I don't intend to be one of those girls. If it was simply a matter of what he does for a living, sure I'd date him. Again, didn't mean to offend and I didn't mean it that way.

Exactly, there were just too many red flags, I think. Not just one thing but all of them combined. Also, just to clarify, did you say he was a landscaper? That's a different story, but I was under the impression this guy was pretty much unemployed and only doing odd jobs from time to time. Maybe I misinterpreted.

Also, just to clarify, did you say he was a landscaper? That's a different story, but I was under the impression this guy was pretty much unemployed and only doing odd jobs from time to time. Maybe I misinterpreted.Well he told me landscaper but the other day I asked him what he had done all day and he said, "cut grass on my friend's crew, not my lawns." I get the impression he cuts grass/landscapes just to pay the bills and the band is the major thing in his life. Apparently they are a pretty popular/successful band in a major US city (only locally). Another red flag and it's really been bugging me. He only wants to talk via messaging or email. Has never asked me for my phone number but on numerous occasions has mentioned wanting to meet me or come to the city to go out (he can't drive to where I am) even saying I could stay with him. It's just a little weird.

Well he told me landscaper but the other day I asked him what he had done all day and he said, "cut grass on my friend's crew, not my lawns." I get the impression he cuts grass/landscapes just to pay the bills and the band is the major thing in his life. Apparently they are a pretty popular/successful band in a major US city (only locally). Another red flag and it's really been bugging me. He only wants to talk via messaging or email. Has never asked me for my phone number but on numerous occasions has mentioned wanting to meet me or come to the city to go out (he can't drive to where I am) even saying I could stay with him. It's just a little weird.

I would say forget him. Men who only want to email forever and never ask for you number/ask you out in concrete terms are a waste of time. It's probably just entertainment to him. I would focus on finding a better propect.

Many a lawn jockey have said their a landscaper. As for making money as a mower of lawns. Depends whether you live in a climate where the seasons change.
As for being in a band, He has a uncertain future ahead.
At a certain age. A man should be able to support more than just himself.

Many a lawn jockey have said their a landscaper. As for making money as a mower of lawns. Depends whether you live in a climate where the seasons change.
As for being in a band, He has a uncertain future ahead.
At a certain age. A man should be able to support more than just himself.

Exactly. Thanks for saying that, Realguy. Women constantly get bashed for admitting they would like a husband who has a stable job. Not rich, but gainfully employed and being able to hold a job. What's so wrong about it? If a man is so unrealistic in his late 30s that he still thinks his band will make it big and that's the main focus of his life, I'm sorry but that man is far from being ready to settle down. A hobby is one thing but if the guy is barely able to support himself, clearly he cannot take any additional responsibilities, like a family, upon himself any time soon.

I used to be involved in the music industry. Tickets, security, roadie. It was fun, but when I became a parent, I knew it was time to stop.