Okay Buzz...thought I'd start a new thread here. It's a new day. I know yesterday didn't go very well for you. Hope you are hanging in there. I recommend the post walkersma did last night about withdrawls and recovery. She really nailed it. Read..think...consider...keep moving forward.

Hope today is better. I am feeling WONDERFUL today. You can too!! :wave:

Buzz
Just checking in on you today. Post and let us know what's up.....

Yours,
Vickyuser :angel:

Buzz..

I'm pulling for you today too! Hang in there.. Take a deep breath, and take on your day. You can do this!!

That is a great idea today is going to be better then yesterday thats all I can hope for is today. I am the only one that can make that happen, no one can do it for me. I will suceed today !!!!

I am feeling great this morning, I feel like I can do anything. With all you great people holding me up I know that I can do better today. My back is killing me but I am going to work though it (for a little while) and try to keep my door open. When I close my door is a signal that I have given up for the day. My secretary has noticed also, she asked me yesterday if everything was ok, and if she had done something wrong (becasue was closing my door) I had to tell her no nothing was wrong I just had to get some important stuff done. At 19 she is very perceptive, and she does brighten my day when she is here. Thanks to all.

Dale

Good luck with your day Buzz! I'm pulling for you too! - Tina

I could sabotage my sources I mean I could tell my wife I know where she has my pills stashed I could call my PM clininc and tell them not to give me any more oxy but I have not done any of these things, does this mean that I am really not ready to stop. I could make it almost impossilbe to get this stuff so why have I not done that.

Dale

I could sabotage my sources I mean I could tell my wife I know where she has my pills stashed I could call my PM clininc and tell them not to give me any more oxy but I have not done any of these things, does this mean that I am really not ready to stop. I could make it almost impossilbe to get this stuff so why have I not done that.

Dale

Hey Buzzkiller,
I have posted with you briefly before. I used to do pills, I have been clean for a year, not sure if I told you that. Perhaps you aren't ready, I used to keep the pills around "just incase". I finally decided I didn't want to deal with it anymore and got rid of them. I was tired of hurting my family, calling out of work and just feeling like crap. Plus the fact that eventually it was going to kill me. I started by taking ten pills for the high and escalated to 32.. Using pills for whatever reason is not worth it when you think about it. I attended NA for a bit, it didn't work for me. I got through it just by knowing that that stuff wasn't worth it. I know it's hard, but you can get through this. If you can't do it for yourself right now, do it for the people that love you. =)

I hate to say it..maybe you are not at your bottom? Only you have that answer..we can only tell you the truth and try to lend support. If not at your bottom...I think you are pretty darn close. It's hard to cut off those sources because it's final...but once you make up your mind that you are dead serious about this it will happen. Have you stopped to think that your PM clinic might help you taper or stop? If you decide to do it..you must be totally brutally honest with your PM doc...about everything. They can't help you unless you are honest. Think about it.

Keep your door open today. Interact with the world..don't shut them out today. Like I told you before...you think you have everyone fooled right now. They may not know what is wrong...but they sure know something is not right.

Yah I tend to agree Janet, I mean besides physicall and mentally the drugs are not interferring with my day to day life, well maybe I just have blinders on. But I mean I am not bying off the street (yet) so I have no legal problems or fear of being aressted. My wife and I are not fighting over the drugs (but then again she doesn't know) My script of percs and oxy only cost me 6 bucks a month. So no I don't think I have reached a bottom so to speak. The main thing that is driving me to quit is the fact that its not going to get any better, its only going to get worse. I cannot take my meds as prescribed at all. It worries me that my attraction and intrest in heroin will be carried out. Its the future that is driving my feeling that I need to quit, not the present so to speak. However I am taking this past week more then I usually do and adding some alcohol in with it I know is a dangerous thing to do. I know in my mind I need to quit, its just making that happen. I have read all the posts here and watched all the movies and it should scare the hell out of me, but for some sick reason it doesn't. I think and others have said it, I need to find a addiction specialist that will deal with my mental addiction to anything that will take me away from myself. Why I need to be someone else I am not sure I will ever know, abuse as a child, a childhood that outsiders would think was the all american dream but wasn't. This is not an excuse this is maybe a symptom. Like I said in an earlier post, anything that will give me that warm feeling in my stomach, for some reason I don't seem to be able to let life alone give me that feeling I have to use some sort of chemical to make that happen.

Thanks
Dale

Yes I understand completely...the childhood stuff does affect us. I don't care what anyone says..it shapes who we are. I also believe there is a genetic pre-disposition which I know your father was an alcoholic. But we can change.

Yes I do think you have your rose colored glasses on. A bottom does not always mean legal, financial, marital and/or employment problems. Bottoms are different for everyone..you don't have to land in prison or bankruptcy to feel like you've reached the end. Sometimes..and this is true for me...it's an emotional, spiritual, physical bottom. You might not have fell flat on your face yet...but it sort of sounds like you're tumbling down the hill. And by the way I wasn't buying off the street either..everything was perfectly legal.

Okay...you know some of my story Dale. I was abused, neglected, witness to horrible things. It all happened behind the pretty little walls of the false happy home my parents put out there for the world. Nobody..but nobody on the outside had a clue. This week my therapist sat there with her mouth hanging open while we talked about some of these things...that's not usually a good sign. :rolleyes: But, in the end she said to me..my god it's a miracle you are alive & sane. You know what..she's right..it's a damn miracle. Thank you very much..I will survive..I will break the cycle...I already have. I will not be a victim.

You can do this too. You can begin to understand and heal...but you gotta be ready. I hope it doesn't take a health crisis, an overdose, a DUI, a divorce, loss of a family, loss of a job or a jail sentence..but it takes what it takes.

I have had my door open most of the day I have prob done maybe 5 so far not starting off too good. My secretary came in and closed the door and told me she knew something was up and did I want to talk, God bless her she is the cutest little thing if she only knew what she was asking. I told her I just had a lot on my mind and needed to sort some stuff out, she asked if I wanted to get a drink after work and talk and I was like no (that is the last thing I need, I think) that I can work them out. She is very attractive and easy to talk to, way to easy. But like I have said today is going to be better then yesterday it has got to be. If I can take just one less pill then yesterday then it is a better day. I have a lunch date with members of the board where I teach so I have got to maintain myself. If I though I could get away with it I would close my door not answear my phone and just use, actually think I have done that a day or two before. I cannot understand why reading the posts of all the survivors of this addiction why that just doesn't scare the hell out of me, a normal person would think god thats awful what is wrong with them. I watched a HBO special called Dope Sick Love about two differnt couples on the streets of New York all four were heroin addicts. My wife could not watch it it was to much for her, I was however transfixed on the heroin use, the feeling of uphoria that comes along with IV drugs. I was hospitol one time for a serious blood infection that had gone from a urinary tract infection to my kidneys to my blood. I was in a lot of pain. The doctor ordered some pain meds mixed with phenagren for nausia I was really sick. Every 4 hours they would come in and it was the most wonderfull feeling I have ever had, it was instantanious I could feel the liquid enter my viens and then solitude sweet quiet and solitude. Nothing mattered not the pain in my kidneys not the pain in my heart nothing but the warm feeling that overcame my body and my soul. A numbing of my being. I think from that day on I have been searching for that feeling again, it was instant calm, instant relief, instant what I though was happiness. How sick is that ??

Dale

Yeah..I think you better steer clear of that cute little 19 year old...god what a complication that would be. And, we already established the alcohol is not a good idea mixed with all the other stuff you are pumping into your body.

You are not unique. We have all had these feelings. It's called "romanticizing" the drug use and then justifying the continuation. Think it all the way through..remember the dope sickness & drug hangovers? People around you definitely know something is up...they just haven't figured it out yet...they will.

Buzz..
Buzz...

I may be way off to say this but something clicked in me when you mentioned your day to days were NOT effected (only physically and mentally but not work.. not buying off street, etc). My hubby's meth addiction never took him to the streets, matter of fact, due to "friends" he never had to pay cash for it. (same with pot) and he was always able to find work, we never lost our house, or anything material. However.. he lost plenty. Some phsyical and mental damages are there for good. THings in our marriage, relationships, what he could be doing at work, where he could be working. His entire quality of life is changed and still in recovery he isn't completely aware of what he lost or how his life is effected. He thought we couldn't afford rehab or him missing work to get clean. I tell you, with me and the kids walking out, he couldn't afford NOT to get clean regardless of the financial situation.
Do you have a thing about n/a meetings? I know my dh told me he couldn't identify with the stories b/c he still had his home, his job and had never been in jail.
You have the desire, that is obvious. What is really holding you back from calling your PM doc?
You are trying to do this alone. That is so difficult.
From other ex-addicts out there.. at what point do/did you figure out the the addiction is stronger then your ability to do it on your own?
I pray for your strength buzz. Keep your door open, keep coming to the boards, hang in there~~ you are not alone.

Ditto what Awife said...lots of wisdom in that post. The drugs are controlling you..not the other way around.

I think that the thing that has made me realize that I have no control over this is well for one thing when I get the oxy it do it till it is gone I mean I wear out a path from the bathroom and back. I have even bought one of those pill crushers to grind it up with. I know I have no control over this stuff. The percs I just have to do so many to get the desired result and I know all that tylenol can be deadly for your liver. I know that I want to quit, I have all the desire in the world, and i am slowly realizing that the high I am chasing doesn't exsist. The overall feeling of "everything is right with the world" is just a checmical reaction in my brain, all the great feelings are chemically produced. I know all this, my wife has already said if it got any worse she would leave thats a given thats why I have not told her the extent, however the constant runny nose is giving it away. I am really lucky I think that I am not living in an area where herion is on ever street corner, I am sure its here its just not as prevelent here in this small town in Texas. I have made a couple of phone calls to detox centers that take my insurance as a matter of fact one called and left a message while I was out to lunch. When my wife gets home I am going to seek out the right place for me, there is no way I can do a full 28 day or longer program (however I am sure thats what I need) but I can do a three or four day detox and hopefully be able to white knuckle it from there. I know the drugs are controlling me, I know what I have to do, and somewhat of what is ahead of me. I am just really scared of doing it. I admire everyone on here that has done it, I am afraid I am not that strong. Drugs have been my crutch for so long, I am not sure I can walk without my crutch. But with God's will I will be able to find out someday. Janet I agree with you about my secretary, I know the pitfalls of that and I am avoiding that like the plegue, maybe I should have hired a less attractive secretary (bad joke I know)

Thanks to all
Dale

Hey Buzz - I know that you feel like you have not made much progress in "getting clean" but you know what they say... the first step is to admit you have a problem. You might not be off the pills yet but you have made the decision that you WANT to be. And personally, I believe that is a HUGE, and frightening step. You have even started looking into detox programs etc... All of this from last week when quitting was just a little nugget in your mind. You have an addiction. A disease. You can't expect miracles overnight and getting down on yourself about it will just make you want to use even more. Concentrate on the steps you HAVE taken, not the ones that you haven't been able to accomplish yet. And as for your wife... I know you said that she told you if it got any worse she would leave. But I'm sure she meant the addiction getting worse and staying that way. I would think that if you told her that the addiction was worse (you don't even have to say how much worse) and that you are determined to get the help you need to quit that she will support you!?!? I would imagine having you back drug free would be worth the wait and any sacrifice she might have to make. I know you are hesitant to enter into a center for recovery. I understand that... I don't know if I would ever be able to do that. And coming clean with your docs is scary too because it ends your supply forever... but if you really want to go off the meds maybe you should tell them, and try a really strict taper instead of a detox center? I know... neither sounds like something I would want to do either. But you seem very determined to get your life back. I'm sure you will make the right decisions!

Thank you for the support Tina you always give great advice. The statment "romancing the drug" has really struck a cord with me. That is exactly what I am doing. I got an IV shot 10 years ago and have been chasing that high since then. All these pain killers are just a substitue or a replacement for that one shot. I have never heard a more discriptive statment I do not think in my life "romancing the drug"

And Janet I totally agree about the secretary, its just my decision making ability is not at an all time high right now, if you kow what I mean. My wife comes home in two days (sat) and I had planned on being clean by then, I am not even close. But at least as Tina just told me I have made a huge step in knowing the problem exists, and starting to make plans to "fix" the problem. I think I am in the fight of my life right now, I may not be winning right now but I am gonna win, I am going to be posting on here saying how many days I have been clean, and helping people like you wonderfull people are doing to me. The biggest step I can make is to make an appointment with my PM and talk to them about what is going on with me, why I have not done that is still a mystery, well its not really a mystery at all is it. If I tell them what I am doing they will not give me the drugs so thats the answear in itself, I tell them I get no drugs. I guess thats a little bit to much of a realality that I am not ready to face right now. Someday soon.

Thanks to all
Dale

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Hey buzzkiller, :wave:

I too have been following this thread all day. I agree with everything everyone has told you. You are at a turning point now. I just wanted to let you know that I will be here with the others to support your recovery.

Phil no you did not come across the wrong way you are right on the money with everything you said. I know the biggest and hardest thing to do will to contact my PM and cut off the source, that will mean that its really over, done, capute and that really, really scares the hell out of me. I mean this way and its dangerous of me to think this way but this way if I get clean and I don't like it then wham I can still get my stuff. But I know in my head that might be what I am thinking but in relatity I know that as long as I can get them I will never get clean. It is just too much of a temptaion to me and all my life anything that is bad for me seems very attactive.

Thanks Phil
Dale

I know how you feel Buzz... My biggest fear is what if I go off the meds completely and my chronic pain condition is completely unbarable... and then I can't get any meds because addiction is on my record... what a mess these pills make!

i agree with phil 110%

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Excellent advice Philster. Dale...as you can see we are all really pulling for you. We will be here when you are ready. The time will come. The seed has been planted and will continue to grow. Once you finally get to the other side and get a taste of freedom you'll wonder why you waited so long. Life is good.

Buzz
I just sat down and read all the posts. Great advise from some compationate people. Please don't take this the wrong way as I am only trying to help. You seem like a highly educated, really smart individual who tends to overthink most things. The drugs are making this worse. You are really just scared. Jump right in now and find the best way to get off the devil pills. Believe me it can get worse. I know you think you are functioning but you aren't. More people will realize that something is wrong other than your 19 year old secretary. And really don't go there with her. I am sure that it is flattering but stress that you don't need. As far as your wife goes she has been around(28 yrs I believe) long enough and will stick it out with you. Give her some credit!

I hope this wasn't too harsh but you need a kick in the butt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am there for you

Yours,
Vickyuser :angel:

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Phil...so glad to hear it. We would be rich if we could bottle that pink cloud!! You are right..it all comes back & it is so wonderful. It really is. You just can't know until you're there.
Your friend in recovery!
Janet

I know yall are probelby thinking god is this guy going to ever get it, he keeps saying the same thing over and over again, we keep giving him the same advice but he doesn't get it. Believe me it is, it is sinking in, you never know what will all of the sudden click for someone. For instance the term romancing the drug, yah I do all that. So many people have given me such great heartfelt advice. I hope that yall had people behind you like I do right now, it is a feeling I have not felt in a long time. Support, honesty, experience. It all comes together.

Yes I am highly educated and over think things, I am the biggest overthinker in the world, which comes in handy sometimes but in some ways it is a problem. Yall will never know how much I appreciate all this support, yall are angels.

And also yes I do know the dangers of the secretary, I cannot lie and say the though had never crossed my mind, I am male. But I know the pitfalls I have seen it before, so I am very carefull. I needed the kick thanks !!!
Thanks to all
Dale

Buzz -

I was reading this thread and just couldn't keep quiet. You remind me so much of myself. I loved to take those pills. As you can tell my my presence here today and yesterday I am going through a trial right now myself. I feel that if I could just take a couple, I'd feel better and get things done that I need to do.

The sad thing is that I KNOW the reality is so much different from what my brain is telling me. I may get some things done, but I wouldn't do them well - oh, I'd THINK I did, but I really wouldn't. The drugs lie. I just have to remind myself that it is a slippery slope and before long I'd be right back where I started. This is just how I've felt for a couple of days. I'm telling you this because if I still had a source, I'd be there now. I had the wisdom to end it with all of them. I even spoke the word police to the folks that called themselves my friends. I had addiction put in my medical records. Thank goodness for that, because, now, three months later, the monkey is still so big that I'd use again if I could. At least I think I would. And, eventually, I'd die. Or at least, alienate my family - my husband and the Walker for walkersma. The TRUE most important things in my life. I don't want that to happen to me, or to you either.

Being clean is so much better than being "under the influence". How you get clean is up to you. Some people do rehab (good for them!). Some of us detox at home (that would be me). Others detox in jail (worst alternative, wouldn't you say?) The point is to do it. Somehow, someway.

How can I help you? Perhaps by helping you, you'll help me too. That is what these boards are for.

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Okay Dale...believe me if I was there I'd give you that kick in the pants for real!! :p Since you're being given plenty to think about..here's some more food for thought:

"As addicts we have each experienced the pain, lonliness and despair of addiction. Most of us tried everything we could think of to control our use of drugs. We tried switching drugs thinking we only had a problem with one particular drug. We tried limiting our drug use to certain times our places. We may have even vowed to stop using all together at a certain point. We may have told ourselves we would never do the things we see other addicts do, then found ourselves doing these very things. Nothing we tried had any lasting effect. Our active addiction continued to progress overpowering even our best intentions." (Sound familiar so far?)

"As long as we are using drugs our lives will get steadily worse. It would be impossible to describe addiction in a way that is agreeable to everyone. However the disease tends to affect us in the following general ways: 1) Mentally, we become obsessed with thoughts of using. 2) Physically, we develop a compulsion to continue using regardless of the consequences.
3)We become toally self centered in the course of our addiction."

"Obsession for us, is the never ending stream of thoughts relating to using drugs, running out of drugs, getting more drugs and so on. Compulsion is the irrational impulse to continue using drugs no matter what happens as a result......As we continue in recovery, we will see how these aspects of our addiction repeat themselves in many areas of our lives."

" Denial is the part of our disease that makes it difficult if not impossible for us to acknowledge reality. Denial protects us from seeing the reality of what our life has become. We have often told ourselves that given the right set of circumstances we might still be able to bring our lives under control."

"The spiritual part of our disease, the part we may recognize only by a feeling of loneliness or emptiness when we first get clean, is perhaps one of the most difficult aspects of addiction for us.

"Honesty had to replace denial before we could face the truth about our addiction. All the lies, all the pretenses, all the rationalizations we had used to justify where we stood as a result of our drug use stopped working."

All of the above was taken from the First Step literature of NA.."It Works How and Why".

We aren't thinking anything except..that you are one of us. Knowledge is power..we're sharing our experience, stregnth and hope.

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Hi Buzz & everyone else

I need to jump in on this thread as well. We're all alike in so many ways. Boy do I know what it means to "romanticize the drug". I'm seven weeks into recovery and still struggling, but have NEVER been sorry that I've made the decision to give them up. I posted on this board for three or four weeks talking to people, asking questions, envying those who had already quit, asking myself, Why can't I??? Finally one day, I had just had enough. I made an appointment with a drug assessment counselor and she was very nice, but really didn't have any answers for me - only options. I just decided to do it. For me, it meant telling my husband - since I was getting drugs from internet pharmacies, I knew by telling him, I would essentially be cutting off my source because he would begin monitoring the packages I received in the mail. Once I made that decision, I knew I had to stick to it, but I was ready and never regretted it.

I was terrified of the withdrawals, but looking back, the anticipation was worse that the actuality of it. I'm a lot like you, Buzz - I didn't really hit what most would call rock bottom. I have a very high profile corporate job - as far as I know, no one at work (except for the few close friends I've told) know that I'm an addict. Although, I spent a lot of money on the drugs (and foolishly on other things when I was high) , I'm not broke or buying drugs off the streets either. But something just came over me when I was ready and I decided I wanted to live without being in a drug "fog" every day. I have to say, I'm not yet where Beginagain is - she is much further along in her recovery than I am even though we essentially went through withdrawals around the same time. Every day is still a struggle for me (and I did have a slip about 10 days ago), but I still wouldn't go back to drugs for anything. I'm still looking forward to getting to the "other side" because I know its there for me - I just have to get there.

Don't let yourself go to the darker side of drugs. I know that's where I was headed. You're so close to making this decision for yourself. What's stopping you? Intellectually, you know what the right decision is for you. Just take the plunge. You'll be glad you did and then you can start sharing withdrawal symptoms and recovery symptoms with all of us. We're all here almost every day. I still urge you to get other help. I see my therapist tonight and I know I really need the reinforcement tonight. I go to AA/NA meetings when I can and I know I'm still not doing nearly enough to work on my recovery.

Keep posting - everyone here cares about you. I'm always glad to hear from Phil. He's been especially inspirational to all of us.

:wave:

Your fellow addict in recovery,
Jan

Jan,
Dear you are much farther along than you give yourself credit for. Your posts are very wise and helpful. Also remember..I was in recovery for 11 years before this relapse. It's funny I was bawling like an idiot when I finally came clean with everyone and saying stuff like " I just threw away 11 years" or "I've lost everything I learned all these years"..everyone kept telling me to "keep coming back" and that I hadn't "lost" or "thrown away" anything. I didn't understand...but now that I've moved forward I can look back and see that they were right. I needed this jolt to kick start my program. There is some lesson in it and something will be gained. For one thing..I found this board and I absolutely LOVE you guys. Might sound silly as I don't even know you...but I do know you in my heart if that makes a lick of sense.

We keep what we have by giving it away. So I'm giving giving giving...cause by golly I sure want to keep it this time and I don't ever ever ever want to go back. Not ever!

Your slip was a setback...you didn't destroy what recovery you gained and in the end it may hold some lesson. God never gives us more than we can handle..even if it sure doesn't seem that way sometimes. I'm always here if you need me..just give a shout!

You want it Jan..I can read it in your posts. God bless.

Janet

Amen BeginAgain,

I love recovery. I love that now my daughter can see me smile and laugh again. I didn't know that she noticed how unhappy I was, but she did. Buzzkiller, you can't do it for your wife and family, but they can be one hell of a motivating factor. Do it for yourself, your happiness, your love of life.

Many of us lost that love of life. And there are those of us who didn't make it. Today their families/friends mourn their deaths and wonder why? They ask themselves everyday was there something they could have done, should have done? The answer is simply, "NO".

Only the addict has the choice to surrender completely to their higher power. I have been down that road to hell, where in the end I wanted to die right then. Instead I picked up that phone and called out for help. That was 83 days ago. I struggled with many demons during the first month of sobriety. Today (even with the normal bs of life), I want to live to an old grouchy woman. ;) See my children have grandchildren for me to spoil.

You must make that commitment to yourself. Do it today, takes those hard steps of cutting off the drug supplies, coming clean with your family, etc. Reach out your hand and ours will be there to take it. We can help lead you down the path, but you must be willing to take each step. They are hard steps in the beginning, but with each success, each passing day it becomes easier and easier.

As I finish this post let me say that I'm the cry baby for the world. As I type each word, tears stream down my face. (Tears are a good thing for me) Wishing there was something that one of us could say that would be the magic to save your life. It brings back the memories of two months ago, when I was this broken person, mentally, physically and spiritually. I thank God that I have come so far and my wish for you is to join us "One Day At A Time".

Hi Janet

Thanks so much for your words of comfort. I'm actually fighting tears as I read them. Are you still very emotional? I'm just so overwhelmed with emotions all the time and at the end of the day when everyone leaves work and I'm here alone, I sit and read the board, post if I feel like it, and most of the time, have a good cry. So much of the time, I feel like I've wasted my life. But I can only look forward now. And as I said before, I just can't wait to get to the "other side" - you know the one that has all the pink clouds and stuff. :D Some days are better than others, but I'm still struggling.

Buzz, if you're reading this, don't get discouraged. Its still so much better than being in the "fog" or on that really, really dark side that I don't think I ever quite got to , but definitely was headed there.

Everyone out there, hang in there. Recovery is worth it - I just know it is!

:wave:

That is probebly the most amazing post I have ever read. Thank you Janet, thank all of you from the bottom of my heart. I really do not deserve to have such wonderfull godsent people behind me. I think the answear to my problems will be home on Sat. I am going to have to come clean with her and hope that she will not leave me. After I do that I am going to contact my PM and tell them what is going on so I can cut off my supply. At that point in time I am going to deal with detox, re-hab or whatever that the love of my life and I decide to do. For us to continue to grow together and put a stop to the growing apart, I hope I have not let her email friend thing go to far, I have to come clean and get clean. We both come from abusive alcoholic parents. I have never been abusive (thank god) to her but she doesn't to deserve to move from a alcoholic parent to a addict husband, no wonder she is moving farther away from me. I have to do this to save my marriage, and save my life. Plus I know alot of people that are gonna kick my butt if I don't. Y"all are saving my life, you don't know what you guys have done for me. I think god led me to these boards, I had cruised around these boards for a couple of months reading the posts but one day something (god) gave me the strength to say help. God knew that all the help that I needed to get me through this was attached to my computer modum, and it is ultimately is going to save my life and my marriage. I feel in love with my wife in high school, love at first sight. I can still remember exactly what she was wearing. She stood by me while I was working two jobs and attending grad school. She was there when I came back from way too many deployments, wars, conflicts and whatever the military decided I needed to go do. Being in special forces you have to leave alot. She is the one that I want to grow old with. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart, I know what I have to do, I hope that it goes as I hope it will. If not I will deal with that when it comes.

Thanks to all
Dale

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I just have alot to deal with, ya know being in the military especially my end of it I did alot of things that I had to do that I am dealing with alot of things I would like to forget. They are pretty good about telling you its time to leave and deal with everything else on your own (government I am talking about) I think there is alot of therapy in my near future.

I wish this place was so not against off board contact I could shake hands and hug everyone that has been holding my hand for the last couple of days. I really belive in fate I believe that fate brought me here guided by God himself and his angles in here did the rest. You all are wonderfull people not many will help a perfect stranger like you all have done.

Thanks to all
Dale

There is no shame in going after what you need. It doesn't make you weak. Post Traumatic Stress is a real issue...we see ALOT of it where I work...mostly ex-military for that particular diagnosis. Counseling may help you much more than you realize. I'm in therapy now..and I wish I'd done it a long time ago, but things happen in their own time.

If you are as honest with your wife as you just were with us how can she walk away from you? Even if she does Buzz...life will keep going and you can survive. But if you tell her how much you love her and how much you want to make things better between the two of you...it might make all the difference. Lay it out there like you have with us. I can tell you adore her..how many guys remember what their wives were wearing the first time they saw them. That is so sweet...makes me weepy!! :D Does she know you remember that about her?

Hang in there!!! We'll be right here.

Yah she knows that, I am a very romantic person. For our twenty fith wedding anniversary I went back to Mi. I took a video camera and went into our old school and filmed the classroom where we met its not a comm college. I even went over to this house that I took her to, it was kinda a party with a live band I found the house went up to them and told them what I was doing I filmed the basement where we had our first kiss. Filmed the mini mall well its a mini mall now back then it was a drive in movie. Had our song "dream on" playing in the background while I narrated. One thing I will say about myself I have an amazing memory for details about that kinda stuff, first kiss, first uh well I will stop there. But yes I am a romantic guy.

Dale

Hey buzzkiller, :cool:

Interesting that you mentioned the things you have to deal with that you had to do in the military. I have twin sons, who were both in the Army and in Iraq at the same time within the last two years. They too live with nightmares and guilt over the things they had to do. My boys are the most kind hearted young men you would ever meet. One is a fireman and EMT (working on Paramedic) and the other is a career soldier. Just to say that taking a life was not something they ever have wanted to do. Even though I'm sure it's against the rules, many soldiers bring back digital pictures of many of the horrors of war. And I certainly don't understand that. I saw alot of those pictures and I can say that the United States citizens don't have a clue what war is and what our soldiers have to do to serve our country in a time of war and terrorism. I want to thank you for all that you have done to serve your country, even at the expense of part of yourself. Both my sons still suffer from nightmares and inability to sleep well at times. One is in counseling and the other (bullheaded child) doesn't need any help. Yeah right!! :D

I encourage you to seek therapy for the Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. You know that this is probably a huge root of the issues going on with you and your addiction. You may not feel that way conciously, but once you get deep into therapy don't be surprised at what comes up and out.

BeginAgain is right about your wife. May I suggest that you start your conversation with her about how much you love her and those things that you remember i.e. what she was wearing the first day you saw her and other special things you remember. Hell, if I had a man who loved me and told me all those small things that he remembered and what he wanted to do to make our life better, and wanted to grow old with me, I'd never let him go. :D

Thank you for you post, and thank you for your sons. I have seen and done alot of things that I not really regret but I wish that I did not have to do them if that makes any sense. It comes down to kill or be killed. I hope there are no anti-war people that are going to hammer me because this is so not what this post is all about. I did what I had to do, probebly the things that do bother me the most affect the other people. The young men I led that didn't fair as well as I did. Wounded a twice not life threatening either time, I was lucky. My wife did put her foot down when I was seriously considering pullling my retirement paperwork to go back to the desert, but that was too much for her she put her foot down and I am gratefull she did. I just felt like I left something undone. She has always been the love of my life and the fact that she might be corrisponding wtih someone elese bothers me but I must say I do not blame her too much. I love her more then she will ever know. She is amazed at what I remember about our courtship, I sometimes tease her and say ah I must have loved you more than you loved me I remember you don't hahah but I am always kidding. I hope I have not let this email thing get out of hand

Buzz/Dale
You have made it to the other side. Congratulations! Your wife is a lucky woman. She will understand. Tell her as you have told us. Step by step in great detail and honesty. She will be there for you. Love is a powerful thing. :) It will be your guide.

Your,
Vickyuser :angel:

Dale,

Don't worry about getting hammered if someone is anti-war. Arememom - Army mom will be there to protect you. lol :D

thanks mom

Night Dale...I'm signing off for the day. Gonna spend some time doing something else for a while. You've made alot of progress today. Stick to your guns. You'll be on here in a couple of months rooting someone else on.

Whether or not you realize it..you help us stay clean every single day. Helping you helps us. Once an addict finds the way to the other side they are willing and eager to help others bridge the gap. We want you to make it. So many here are pulling for you. Isn't it amazing? This is what I get in the fellowship of NA. Everything I wrote to you earlier came directly from the NA literature. Consider buying an "NA Basic Text" and an "It Works How & Why". You can get them from any NA group or order online through the NA website. Try an online NA chat room...most major web home pages have "groups" you can join recovery related chats. You might run accross some of us there sometime. Some use the same screen names in chat rooms on-line so it's possible to stumble accross one of us there...it happens.

Good night..I'm proud of you. Pat yourself on the back for the progress you've made. This is a hard battle...but a very rewarding one. God bless. Please be safe.

Buzz/Dale -

Congratulations. Deciding to stop with the drugs is the first step. I admire you for making the decision. You sound like such a strong determined person, that I know when you direct your energy against this "enemy", you'll win!

I am so happy to hear that you and your wife have such an amazing relationship. When you are thinking clearly again, you'll treasure her even more!

Keep us posted, and I'll certainly help whenever I can.

walkersma/robin

Thank you Robin as I said I am hoping that I have not let her get too far away. I know she is my soul mate I just hope her feelings have not changed. In some ways I am a stranger to her, I mean I have been gone alot most of the time I would not even be able to tell her where I was and alot of that time contact was almost impossible not alot of letter carriers where I was at to say the least. Thank you for your support I appreciate every person that has stopped in and given me advice, given me hope, or even a kick in the pants which I ususally thoughly deserved.

Dale

Buzz, I am so glad that you have decided to tell your wife what is going on. I was really hoping that you would decide to do that. I think that it will take a huge load off your shoulders not having to keep this secret from her any longer. She might be upset at first, but honesty really is the way to go. Not even the strongest relationship can withstand keeping such a serious secret for too long. And hopefully she will be able to provide you with some "in person" support, I think that will do so much to help you reach your goals with getting clean and sober. Good luck! - tina

Morning Dale. Glad to see you have resolved to talk to the wife. This may be the kick start, the jolt of reality, the shock to the system you need and your marriage needs.

I'll pray extra hard for you. I really and sincerely hope she will support you and love you through this. Your life together can really start to improve now if you can share with her and the two of you can move through this together. But even if that doesn't happen I hope you will keep your resolve to get some help. You'll survive this either way. You have much to offer the world..that is readily apparent from listening to you here.

Remember that sometimes the best lessons in life are the ones that hurt the most. You'll never forget this difficult time in your life, but making something positive out of a negative situation can be your salvation. Get on your knees and ask for strength and guidance...then if you do the foot work the rest will come.

Sending love & prayers for recovery,
Janet

Goodmorning to all. suppost to be nice in TX today. I feel a little sick from last night. I shoud not post when I am that far into my disease, I said way too much, got way to weepy. No one likes a sappy person that has had too much. Thank you for all your support the solution sounded so clear last night but as I sit here in this morning fog I does scare me alot more than last night. Thanks for all your support I appreciate it.

Dale

Keep the faith Dale. Hope you stick with your decisions. You can do this. Don't be afraid.

Buzzydale,

The morning always brings new light and as you said that is sometimes good, and sometimes scary. You telling your wife is a good idea. As mentioned in previous posts those around an addict sometimes know somethings going on but not sure what. She may very well have been living with the fact that you are keeping secrets from her but she is left to her imagination as to what those secrets are. Our imaginations can sometimes be worst then reality (yes even this reality.)
This is harsh (kick in the pants) but really ment from a wifes perspective.. I hope you are wrong about your wifes "friend" as a wife I can tell you, when my husbands habit was stronger then him, he was cheating on me. Not with another person but with something stronger I couldn't compete with. It doesn't have to be a person that has lead the spouse astray, an addiction becomes "the other "friend". Give your marriage another shot.
Your not sharing with her has kept her from the joy of helping you (yes sounds funny but).. the joy comes from you and her in this together. Picture yourself, a few months from now. You wake up, you feel good, your head is no longer in a fog. You may crave throughout the day but... it isn't like it was, you can turn it down. You realize all the support from these boards, and your own personal strength as well as any doc you reach out to were there for you from the beginning and you feel deep graditue for that. You want to celebrate LIFE, LOVE and you SOBRIETY. Now.. if your wife doesn't know whats going on now.. she can't celebrate your recovery and new beautiful days with you as she should. That is where the joy in you telling her comes. Its hard, it isn't fun and it sounds so much easier in 5 sentences then in real life but the way you've described your marriage you guys deserve it! Please tell her..
Praying for you.. pulling for you!
Please keep us updated (good and bad)!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Spark, I was a combat controller, alot of the stuff (missons) are still classified and did not actually happend if you understand this type of thing. Its not as romantic as the movies makes it out to be. It was discribed as hours of boredom with a few min of extream terror thown in for excitement. This is one chaper of my life that i am going to have to deal with at another time, I am proud of my service and accomplishments but alot of it I cannot seem to get out of my mind. When you come back to a civilian enviornemt its hard to just converse, because they have no idea what you have seen or done, you cannot even begin to explain this life style to them so you just keep quiet, and try to file it in your mind. Ugh hate the thoughs of this stuff.

Don't dwell in it right now Dale...I think all this talk about it is getting it stirred up again. The main focus right now is on finding the help you want and need at a place you are comfortable with. The other stuff will start to work it's way out when the time is right...probably through therapy. Take a deep breath and try to recfocus on something else right now to get recentered.

Is your door open today? Keep your chin up! Things will work out for you.

My darn TMJ is acting up BAD today - must have gritted my teeth bad last night. The pain is such a trigger for me. I've been doing so well but I'm wrestling with myself today - back and forth - once won't hurt...yes it will..no it won't.....forget it Janet, it's not happening. Yes that conversation is going round and round in my head. Like the devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other. I'm working back through it and remembering why I quit, how sick I felt, how badly I wanted my life back. Crap!! No way..I'm NOT going back there.
Just venting!!

Janet you must have some esp I just closed my door, I fell back into memories. God vent all you want you have been listening to my rambleings for the past week. I hope you start to feeling better, how did you know I had closed my door thats spooky.

Boo. :D

My hubby says I have voo-doo. Just had a feeling Dale..don't ask me how I knew. Just the tone of your messages this morning. I'm sort of getting a feel for your moods already. Open that door back up.

Seriously, I get these wierd feelings about stuff. I've done it all my life. My hubby had this guy he used to hunt with, just an aquaintance of his. He came to our house one day..I opened the door and slammed it right back in his face. I wouldn't let my husband invite him in. No way. Something just not right about him. Hubby thought I was bonkers but went along. Six months later he was busted for messing with his niece (she was 13 at the time). I said..see I told you. I've had lots of things like that happen over the years. Someone once told me that kids who suffer abuse never loose the ability to smell trouble. As children we are born with that natural sense of "something isn't right" but our parents retrain us that it's not nice to act that way and force us to be polite even when we know there's something spooky. Kids who suffer emotion abuse, physical abuse or any other kind of abuse tend to not loose that sense..it only reaffirms the feeling that something isn't right..because it wasn't right.

Now that might sound like hocus-pocus and I promise I'm not loosing it...but it sort of explains alot.

Yes I'll keep venting as needed. I feel a bit better right now. Trying to keep my head on straight today. I will not give in!!!!!!!!!! I know this will pass...I've been here before and it always does.

Open the door..let the world in. :wave:

I'm going outside to smoke...I know nasty habit...I haven't gotten rid of that one yet.

You do seem to have an amazing in-sight to what I am feeling, even when I don't. I know the intuition you are speaking of it came in handy for me also, knowing when something just didn't seem right. I have an invite to go see Jarhead tonight, it is opening up in our town, not sure if I should or not, but it does look interesting. Movies make these things soo cool and people get sucked into the romance of war. When in reality it is a very ugly ugly thing. I hope you get through your bad feelings right now, beleive me if someone reads the misery I am in that ought to be enough to cure them right off. I am going to open my door, in a few.

Thanks to all
Dale

I've seen probably every war movie ever made..my husband subjects me to them and hours and hours of the History Channel. (zzzzzzzzzzzz :yawn: ) He was watching some show one night about barbed wire...I'm just like cracking up..what is so exciting about barbed wire? Did you know there are actually people who collect antique barbed wire? He is such big old teddy bear manly man. :)

I saw the previews for Jarhead. It does look good. I'm sure I'll eventually see it. I'm buying the "Band of Brothers" boxed DVD set for the husband for one of his Christmas presents. He really enjoyed that series.

I am very consious of the fact that war is nothing like the movies. Everything in Hollywood is romanticized..there's that word again. Nothing romantic about it in my opinion. I do greatly respect those of you who have sacrificed and risked your lives for our country. Now stop thinking about it...think happy thoughts!

You're right. I don't want to be miserable anymore. I don't want you to be either. There will be days like this from time to time..but they always pass. As long as we don't give in the stupid addict voice in our head eventually gets it and shuts up.

My door is open thanks

Good! Bad things happen when the door is closed.

Buzz
The door is a symbol for life-opened and closed-your choice...


Yours to help
Vicky

Thanks yall

Morning Buzz & all

Just wanted to tell you I'll be thinking about you a lot this weekend, but probably won't be able to post. I'll be up in northern Minnesota (BRRR!!) and we just have a clunky old computer up there so may or may not be able to connect.

Good luck this weekend and every day! The anticipation of telling your wife will be much worse than when you actually do it. I hope you go through with it. Its such a giant step in the right direction.

Don't go any further to that dark side. Its too scary over there!

We all care

Friend in recovery,

Jan

Hey Buzz - Just wanted to check in with you and see how your day was going? I hope that you are still considering telling your wife when she gets home this weekend...? If she is willing to help you, the added support would be so great for your recovery. I decided last night that I need to take a break from the methadone I have been using to treat my chronic pain condition. My enjoyment of the med is taking over my need for it to treat my pain and that scares me. So I have made the decision to go cold turkey for a week or so. I need to get control of my will power again and remind myself of my need to take it only as prescribed for maximum pain relief without running short every month. I am a little scared but also excited. I want the knowledge taht I can do this for myself. Hopefully I can and hopefully you can too! Keep me posted on how you are doing! - Tina

Haven't heard from you in a little while. How are you this afternoon? Hope all is well.

I am doing ok I have alot to do tonight, I have not done dishes since my wife left so I have to do a massive clean up, I am also going to get her oil changed and car washed so she will have a nice clean car when she gets back. Hope all is well with everyone this afternoon

Wow Tina I am not sure I will be able to seperate things like you do, I am so concerned that I will not be able to get clean because of the pain. But to tell ya the truth I think my body lies to me, I mean I never ever get close enough to being straight to seperate fact from fiction as far as my back pain goes. Mine is a double edge sword so to speak, as my back hurts and tension from everyday life it tends to knot the scar tissue up and the nerve endings even more, well thats the way my PM describes it. So stress is a big factor in my pain, pain causes stress so you can see how this can go round and round. I am going to get clean and then evaluate my back condition, it is a well earned injury though pullilng someone to safety.

Thanks too all
Dale

You are too sweet. Hope she appreciates you. I'm sending my hubby down there for lessons. :D Just kidding...he's wonderful...he just doesn't think of things like that often. But when he does..wow it's nice. He's a flower guy. I got flowers (atleast a single rose) every single day we were dating for the first 6 months. How could I resist him.

Oh yeah....get those dishes done. Nothing makes a woman more upset than coming home to sink full of dishes and a hamper full of laundry. I love my dishwasher..atleast I can hide them in there.

I'm glad things are going better today. We're thinking about you...as you can see. We'll drive ya nuts, but I know I worry about folks on here now that I've made some connection with them.

We've gotta go home and bear proof tonight. I have problems every single year. They love my dog food and they also love my garden in the spring and summer. They stole every single watermelon and cantelope out of the garden last summer. Used to freak me out. The first time I ever saw one there was a noise in my garage and I went to the back door to see what it was. Opened it and there stood a 300 pund black bear digging in my garbage. Talk about freaked out. I was home alone too of course. I'm pretty good with a pistol at the range but I don't want to try my luck with a bear. :eek: My dogs were no help...they just stood on the front deck and quivered..like no way mom..you're on your own.

(Now I sound like a real live redneck girl...showing my true colors I guess.)

Anyway..now whos rambling. Sorry!! This is not at all on topic. Hope the rest of your day goes well. I'm feeling much better than this morning. I knew it would pass.

Wow Janet a three hundred pound bear ? I guess its a good thing you were not using at the time you would have thought it was the medication hahaha. My mood today is so much better today then yesterday. I don't feel like there is a cloud today like yesterday. It is a beautiful day here in West Texas suppost to be 80 tomarrow not a good day for all the deer hunters tomarrow but for us other people its nice. Yes I have alot of dishes to do, but laundry is not my thing I have a bad habit of just throwing everything in together and thowing everything in the dryer. I only had to ruin a few swearters after that I was banned from laundry haha no I didn't do that on purpose humm I don't think anyways.

I have used as much as yesterday but my mood is defianetly better maybe its cause I see a light at the end, I have a plan of attack, I am just not sitting here wineing about this and that, I am going to take action and thats what I am used to doing. I have a bad habit of letting a problem bother me unitl it is solved, it will drive me crazy untill it is complete, well its not complete yet but I have a plan of action.

I am nervous about how she is going to take it, I am wondering if I really need to be 100% honest about everything, maybe just that I am using more then she knows but leave out some of the oxy stuff, that stuff freaks her out, she seen a dateline show about oxy abuse and that all I heard about after that. So maybe I can stress that I need the help and to cut of my supply but maybe leave out the oxy problem. Yah I am a chicken she is only 5'5 but I am scared to death of her hahah. I have faced the the Talaban and I am afraid of a little 5'5 140 pound woman huh ?

Dale

I've often said if we want to defeat the Taliban...send in the women. Just kidding.

It will be okay Dale. If you decide not to tell her the whole truth atleast tell her you are using more than you should, you have decided you don't want to be a slave to the pill bottle and you need help, cut off your source and move forward with finding some help. If you've found her hiding spot it's a pretty good bet she'll figure out you have anyway. She thinks you're using 3 pills and you're using 10 or more...pretty soon she'll figure that one out if not already. I really and sincerely pray that she will stand beside you through this...you sound like such a good man and loving husband and that counts for alot.

Yes..that one was 300 pounds. The game warden trapped it because it kept coming back so we know the size..I believe the actual weight was 297.9..close enough. Most are smaller. Thats how we found out that where we live they relocate the "problem" bears right behind our house on the ridge so it's no surprise we get lots of them hanging around. They are in unfamiliar territory and haven't established their new home area yet..so they roam until they figure it out. We bought a log home a few years ago out in the boonies. It's beautiful though..like being on vacation every time you go home. We get coyotes, wild hog, lots of deer and bear...and probably a few things I don't want to know about. There were coyotes howling near the back deck a couple of nights ago..freaky and spooky. The hogs are MEAN.

My hubby isn't allowed to do laundry either...must be common. ;) Good luck and please let us know how it goes.

I am closing up for the afternoon the sun is shining and I just want to enjoy the rest of the day. I will check in later tonight.

Thanks to all you wonderfull people
Dale

A little bit scary here got a bloody nose that cannot be a good sign.

No..I'd say it's not a good sign Dale. Things are escalating. Probably from irritation, busted blood vessels, swelling of the sinuses..maybe even nasal polyps which over time can be caused by what you are doing. Remember opiates can mask sinus symptoms, cough, abdominal pain...any number of things. Percocet which I believe is what you said you are using right now has Tylenol in it.

Remember, Tylenol toxicity is a possiblity when overusing the drug. This would not be related to the nose bleed most likely - but it's something to think about where your liver and overall health is concerned. Particularly when you've been drinking too. Alcohol really increases the risk of problems with Tylenol and the liver.

Just the facts...not intended to scare you..but it's time to really think about this. I know you have been, but think of your health too.

I'll be offline for a while. I've got to take my daughter somewhere tonite. I'll check on you later this evening. Probably not a good idea to put anything else up your nose.

I know that your right janet and I have got to stop, hopefully next week will be the biggest week of my life, I will have to make the decsison to live or die, that is bascially what it boils down to.

When I think back on last year some things pop out that really show what this addiction has done to me. For instance for all my life my passion has been bass fishing. I always wanted a Ranger bass boat, I seen the Ranger boat as the pinnocle the top of the line but I could never afford one. This year I traded my old boat that I had for 14 years in on a new Ranger boat. The boat of my dreams. That boat has sat in my garage, I have only used it 5 or 6 times in the six months that I have owned it. I look at it and think oh man I would like to go out but the weather is suppost to get bad, I have to move stuff around my garage to get it out, I gotta get gas. Totally talking myself out of something that I enjoy like I don't deserve it. I think this can totally be related back to my drug use. I loved going out by myslef I could really think and file thing in my brain, thats what I seem to have to do, it will wear on my till I can file the though or the problem away as I see it. Thats the only time I can really think. But I don't do it any more, like I cannot see myself enjoying anything. That is one thing my wife has noticed, you have a 35,000 dollar boat sittin in the garage that you don't even use. I cannot wait to get rid of this, I cannot wait till I can see and think straight again. I cannot wait till I can enjoy the things that I enjoy again. I cannot wait till I can say I am free, that I am sober, that I can say oh man all my friends here were right all along.

Thanks to all
Dale

I think you're dead on. I came to many of the same realizations. I love antiques and estate sales. I had a pretty successful online business selling antique toys and other miscellaneous antiques I found interesting. It was my hobby. I completely stopped doing it. I'd rather stay home and get high..well it was more like trying to get high at the end..I only made myself sick.

The drugs become your best friend. Like someone else said here a couple of days ago. The drugs begin to seem like your best friend, lover, mate, crutch..everything revolves around them. We isolate ourselves from real life.

I can't wait for you to do it either. We find out how much better we feel, how much better life can be and want to shout it from the roof tops. Don't fool yourself..it's going to be a hard road for a little while. That's as honest as I can be. You didn't get this way overnight...you won't find freedom overnight either. But it is 100% worth it. When you get to the other side you'll ask yourself why you didn't do it sooner. I don't think you'll regret it.

You'll be fishing your heart out. Fishing is so relaxing. We don't get to go but about once a year when we go up north. My father lives on Lake Ontario..we spend alot of time on the lake in the summer. My kids and I fish the whole time we're there..it's so relaxing.

Have a good evening.

Hey Dale, :wave:

Sorry I haven't posted to you today, but it looks like you are doing well. I've been busy with outpatient rehab, family counceling and CA meetings. One of those days that has been all about "ME". lol I agree with BeginAgain that you don't have to tell your wife about every little detail. What purpose would that serve. I know that there are many aspects of my addiction that I'll never share with my family. The only one who gets to hear all my horrible secrets, lies is God and my sponsor.

I don't watch any war movies and probably won't ever until my last son is out of the Army. I know that what they show isn't half of the real thing. Emotionally for me it's too hard, especially with the possibility of him still going back to Iraq or Afghanistan within the next year.

I may be online for a few more hours tonight, but tomorrow I have outpatient rehab and two CA meetings. We have a fairly new group who is begging for us to come help support them and I'm going there at noon. The other meeting is about 98 miles from here and a group of us are caravaning there to help the group celebrate their 19th year at this meeting site. Their having a BBQ and one of our members is going to be the speaker. I'm fairy new and I haven't heard her story. She is a trip in meetings and you never know what will come out of her mouth. She makes us think and laugh. I'll keep you in my prayers and will check back in tomorrow night. I hope you have a great day.

Morning Dale. Just checking in. Read the posts from last night. We're all still pulling for you and thinking of you. Stay strong!!

Good morning, I am literally shaking with nerves, I feel like this is a intervention in reverse of sorts.

Dale

Buzz...

Hang in there. Stay strong. You can do this!!!

It's going to be okay. It's scary for all of us when we first get clean. Surrender to the solution. You've already accepted the fact that you are powerless to control the drugs and that your life has become unmanageable. Now try to keep an open mind so you can find the honesty to admit defeat, the humility to ask for help, the willingness to let someone else drive for a while and the acceptance to roll with the changes that will come.

Sorry..I speak 12 step...I've just found that so much of what is in the literature is 100% true for me and most addicts I've met. It's just learning to accept it and apply it. Take a deep breath. Draw on the stregnth here. You have our support 110%. I hope that soon you will find a peer group close to home to help you put this stuff into practice.

Please check in with us later and let us know how you are. Like arememom said in another post...hold back what you need to. The important part right now is that the core secret finds it's way to the surface and that you take the next step and reach out for some help. The seed is planted..water it and let the healing begin.

No matter what happens...remember if we get out of the way and let God's will work in our lives things begin to improve. It may be difficult and painful at first..but there is an end to the discomfort eventually. That is a promise.

You and your wife will be in my prayers today.

I am leaving to pick her up thanks again

Hey Buzz,

Sorry I didn't get a chance to post at all last night. I was exhausted. This is my second full day with no pills. So far so good. 41 hours since my last pill was swallowed. Wish me luck!

I hope that things go okay with your wife today. You don't have to spill your guts the first minute she's in the door. Get comfortable. Enjoy seeing her. Remember WHY you have to be honest with her... so that you don't lose her. And then tell her what she needs to know. There are always some things we need to keep inside. You will be in my thoughts all day today. I know you will probably be terribly nervous just seeing her, not even telling her anything yet... Stay strong. Remember that you have friends that are pulling for you and thinking of you! - Tina

Thank you Tina she is napping right now, things seem tence I am not sure what is going on? I am worried to say the least.

Dale

Maybe when she wakes up ask her what is bugging her. Maybe things have been tense for a while and you haven't noticed? Maybe she's just exhausted. Disney World really will wear you out. Did she meet family there? What give you the impression something is wrong?

Stay calm. Getting upset about real or imagined circumstances won't make this any easier.

How is the nose bleed?

You'll get through this.

Buzz
Just started to read. Checking in on your progress. Hope your reunion with your wife goes well. Let her speak and be willing to listen. Really listen

Yours,
Vicky :angel:

Dale, I just wanted to drop you a quick line. I havent posted much to you, however I have been following your story from the very beginning! I just want you to know that i, like all the others here, am routing for you and wishing you all the best and strength for recovery and your relationship with your wife.

Do you think that maybe it may be possible because of the anxiety and anticipation you are feeling about telling your wife about your addiction that maybe she senses something and that may be why things seem tense?

I too, like Beginagain, was wondering if your wife went to Disney to meet family or friends? Why did she go to Disney and why didnt you go with her?

Just wondering! Again, i wish you well and all the luck in the world!
Keep us posted as to how things are going, ok?

ValleyGurl

Just thinking of you buzz... hope all is well.

I'm thinking of you too buzz...turning in for the night (well early morning - I'm never up this late)..hope things are okay on the homefront.

Stay strong and safe.

Hey buzzkiller, :wave:

I too am just checking in and hope you and your wife are talking and spending time together.

I am ok, things are very iffy right now, it could virtually go either way. Thank you for your prayers I really need them right now.


Dale

The prayers are coming. Does this mean you told her? When you have some time bring us up to speed. We'll try to help if we can. I'm worried about you. Thought about you several times last night. I know this is hard..hard doesn't begin to describe it. You can get clean though...no matter what happens. I pray she supports you in this..but if not we will and wherever you go for help will too. You'll get through it.

Hang in there.

Hi Dale,
Bumping this thread back up so it will be there for you this morning. Hope to hear from you today. I hope you are okay and that you got through the weekend alright. Please let us know how you are. Everyone is thinking of you & sending stregnth and prayers as you will see by reading back through the posts from the last day or two.

God Bless. Stay Strong.
Janet

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Goodmorning everyone, I am sorry I could not be on more over the weekend. Yes I did tell her, I had kinda changed my mind but a bloody nose had kinda given it away. I told her everything except the oxy, I told her I had found the stash and so on and that I was taking between 10-15 a day. She really took it hard and I am not sure that it is going to work, she told me that she though she might be just done with worrying about me. She said she though with me safe in a 9-5 job that I would be ok, she said she spent to much of her life wondering where I was if I was, alive or not and when she would hear from me again. She cannot understand why I feel more comfortable in a flak jacket then a suit and tie, why I always need to be right on the edge of something dangerous. She may stay she might not, some good news, she took the pills and she is regulating me again, I am taking one every four hours instead of 4 every hour or so. I cannot say that I blame her though, she has gone through enough with me, I have just been away too much over the years, she was counting on me just being a husband for a change and I had to lay this on her. Like I said it might work and it might now, today she is still there, tomarrow maybe not but that just seems to be my life.

Thanks to all
Dale

Dale,
Don't give up now. Take the next step and get the help you need. I know you want to be the husband she longs for and getting help is the first step in the road back to her. Maybe she is afraid that this will be like all the times in the past she just had to sit by and worry and wonder. Maybe if you get her involved in the recovery process and the two of you do this together it can work.

Would your wife benefit from the board here? If not here maybe some other kind of face to face support like it locally where you live. Maybe therapy together? It's hard for non-addicts to understand addicts - and maybe she doesn't really understand the hell you've been through from childhood up and in the military. It's not an excuse..but maybe understanding and knowing where you are coming from and that you desperately want to heal..maybe that would make a difference. If you involve her she won't have to wonder if you are okay Dale...she'll know. If you involve her in the recovery process and the treatment...she'll know what you are going through.

You can be a husband to her. God knows how much you love her..I could read it in what you have written here. She needs to know it is possible to heal - it's possible for both of you to heal. She needs to know how much it has hurt you to hurt her and disappoint her..communicate with her. Reach out today and get that assessment somewhere, find a counselor, find an addiction specialist, talk to your PM doctor and get help that way..take action. You've really got to cut off that source if you are going to keep moving forward - too much temptation. Things won't improve unless you do the work now - take the next logical step - get help.

We are still here for you. We will even be here for her if she wants to talk, vent and post. We can try and help her understand from an addicts point of view -even from a family members point of view. There are plenty of people on here that will provide support. She needs help and support too.

Let the healing begin now. Hang in there. Don't give up.

I'll be away for a bit...helping a friend get into a recovery residence today. I'll check on you in a couple of hours.

Hey Dale, :wave:

Glad to hear from you this morning. I agree with BeginAgain's post and will keeep you both in my prayers. Another option for you and your spouce is NA and Alanon. If she's willing, face to face meetings in Alanon are great. She will get the knowledge and support of others in her situation to help her along the way just as you would get the same in NA. Hope your day goes well and keep the faith that things will get better.

We just seem so I don't no so distant, like strangers. That is a really good idea about the therapy I know I could use it. Maybe its just too many missed anniversarys, birthdays, Christmas, holidays all of them. Just have never been there for her and now again she thinks that I am but I am deciving her. I have no idea what to do but to just hang on and hope for the best. I did turn down several offers to be an "advisor" in the desert. I turned those down for her, I took this job of sitting at a desk and pushing paperwork for her, but as it turns out I don't think that it made either one of us happy. However if this doesn't work out I know where I am heading if the offers are still open. I just don't know anymore.

But let me add this, it is a new day and I am going to do better today then yesterday. The sun is shining and my door is open, it is going to be a good day.

Dale

Hey Buzz - You might not feel like it right now but you have made major steps this weekend. One of your biggest fears was to tell your wife what was going on. Now you have done it. That is off you shoulders. Good job! I know that would have been very hard for me. I don't know if I am lucky or not, but I don't have a spouse to have to worry about telling. Of course that also means I don't have a spouse to help me thru this.... but that's okay. YOU DO!!!

I am sure she is upset, mad, disappointed, hurt, all of those things. But that is only her first reaction. Give her time. The plus is that she did not storm out the door immediatly after you told her. So that is a good sign. She loves you. She is just worried. And that makes sense, you have been worried about yourself! When she sees that you are serious about getting clean, I'm sure she will feel much better. It takes time.

Let me know how you are doing.
Tina

Set up that therapy appointment. Do it today. Even if she refuses to go...you go. She may come around later. Talk to her just like you are talking to us. Tell her you are aware of all the things you've missed and you don't want to miss out anymore. Believe me all the things she is imagining are much worse than the truth. You need to tell the truth as much as she needs to hear it. Telling us how much you want things to change is one thing. Telling her is something else entirely...then follow up with action. Don't let the words be empty anymore.

You are deceiving yourself first and foremost..once that ends the rest will begin to change. No it wont be easy...but nothing worth having is ever easy to get is it?

The principles of the first step...admission of your addiction and powerless - and the realization of unmanageability in your life:
acceptance, humility, willingness, honesty and open-mindedness
These things come only after surrender - complete surrender. Admission that you have been beaten and controlled. This is follwed by hope...hope gives us something to look for and move towards.

I know that I am helpless and that I have no self control about this stuff. When you say tell her the truth are you talking about what I have been through ? I could never tell her what I have been through belive me what she imagines in her head is three times not as bad as the truth I could never ever tell her the truth about my job while I was away all those years.

Hey Dale, :wave:

Please remember your road to addiction was long and the road to recovery will take time also. As you said in your post about the missed birthdays, anniversaries, etc. Those things happened over a long period of time and only time will show your wife if you can be there for her in the future. Be patient with her, don't expect change over night. But with each passing day things will get better. Even if things don't work out with your wife, you have already started a thought process of what you will do. Pray earnestly that your higher power will lead you and your wife in the right direction.

Well maybe you could just tell her that Buzz? You don't have to go into details. Or is she the type that would want all the details once you said something like that? Have you personally ever been in therapy and talked about these things confidentially to a doctor? That might be beneficial all on it's own. I love my therapist. I wish I could go twice a week instead of 12 times a year (insurance rules ya know). There is just something about pouring all your darkest memories, and fears out to a completely unbiased stranger that you know can't tell anyone. It just pours out of me. Which I NEVER thought would happen. I was so nervous the first time.

You don't have to be that specific. Just the knowledge that you have experienced and done some traumatic and terribly difficult things is enough. The fact that you think there may be some post traumatic stress & depression along with the addiction. You are medicating something after all.

When I say tell her the truth..I mean talk to her like you talk to us. Does she know how much you want life to be better? Does she know you are aware that you've missed birthdays, christmas, anniversarys..even day to day normal things? Did you tell her part of what has brought you to this point is not wanting to miss those things anymore? That you want to heal? That you want the relationship to be strong and loving again? That you want to understand yourself and heal? You've told us all these things. Maybe she needs to hear them to. Hearing these things from you is what made me realize that you were really reaching out for help and that you really are beginning to want to recover.

What she is imagining is the distance between you, the uncertainty of what the future holds, the uncertainty of whether or not you want to change, the fear of loosing you again to something else. Imagine how afraid and confused she is right now. She needs to hear the truth about where you want to go..and then see action to enforce that you are moving in a different direction.

The distance you feel was probably there all along Dale. You are just sobering up enough to feel it now. Reach out for help. There is really nothing to fear. Life is better clean...I promise.

Maybe what your saying is true I am sure it is, but maybe I am afraid of a "normal" life what if I cannot adjust to this. What if I am just kidding myself and I could never be able to live a life like she wants. I mean I feel that I do, but its hard to adjust to pressing issues like oh we are out of staples and the fax machine is broke, after what I have seen or done. It is so hard to be normal, to do normal things. To get excited about a paperwork jam, ughh.

Dale,

All of the feelings you have are normal. Fear of the unknown is a feeling we have all experienced and continue to experience everyday. Somedays are better, some are worse. :D

It scarey as crap, dealing with life without the fog of the drugs, isn't it? We've all been there too. As time passes, dealing with issues (like the staples and fax) will become more and more easy to deal with. Today for newly recovering/detoxing folks every little issue is huge. It was for me. In the beginning I couldn't even decide what clothes to wear for the day. And somedays just didn't make that decision and stayed in my PJ's. :D At 83 days clean, I still have days here and there where I just can't deal/focus with anything (Wednesdays seem to be my day). On those days, I pray alot, attend CA/NA meetings, call my sponsor and post here alot. Just having people who do understand what I'm going through helps keep me focused on my one goal. And that goal is to stay clean.

Dale, you must live the life that you want. And if you find that you and your wife don't want the same things then you both will have to make your own decisions. Remember what you have heard here. You can't get clean for her. She may be a huge motivating factor, but you must do it for yourself. I know you adore her. And all of this is painful for you both. I have always heard that "Time Heal All Wounds". And I pray it does for me, you and our families.

Thank you so much for your post, I appreciate all of them. I am just in a very difficult place right now, all self-induced so I cannot complain it is all my fault anyways.

Dale,

Complaining, venting, whatever you want to call it, is essential to your recovery. When he hold pain, anger and resents inside is when we addicts really get ourselves into trouble. That's what leads us back down into that dark black hole from which it is difficult to crawl out of. We addicts beat ourselves up worse than our families ever could. We don't feel worthy, feel like pieces of ****. I knew that feeling all to well at the beginning of my journey. But we are not **** and we deserve so much more happiness in life.

None of us started out in life wanting to be an addict. I've never heard any child say, "When I grow up I want to be an addict". Genetics, situations and many other things got us to our point of addiction. And now we're gathering the strength to fight.

So complain, vent, whine to us. Because there are days when we'll do the same to you. And as you can see, this is the support we need. It's only a fraction of the type of support you'd get in face to face meetings. When we're in pain, are angry, harbor resentments we must be able to get that out to live a more mentally healthy life. And Wednesdays always seem to be my worst day, so get ready for me to join you. lol

I am whinning, that is just not me. I am a suck it up and make it work type of guy. Totally type A personallity, if you cannot get it done get out of my way cause I will make it work one way or another. Yet when it comes to these little pills I cannot seem to take control, it has control over me. The percs give me such a feeling of everything is right with the world feeling.

I too am that Type A personality and a Virgo (if you believe in that stuff). And this drug addiction is something I can't control. That's why I need the help of others and have to learn a new way of living within the 12 step program. Hopefully that Type A and Virgo will be a strength for me. You know we can never do anything just a little. So I have thrown myself into this wonderful 12 step program with all the focus and energy that once consumed me in addicion. All the time I spent using, trying to find ways to use, time to use, money to use....is now spent on how to stay clean.

I am whinning, that is just not me. I am a suck it up and make it work type of guy. Totally type A personallity, if you cannot get it done get out of my way cause I will make it work one way or another. Yet when it comes to these little pills I cannot seem to take control, it has control over me. The percs give me such a feeling of everything is right with the world feeling.


Maybe it's time to make some changes in "you". What you call whining we call getting honest, opening up, venting and sharing. It's a new behavior for all of us when we first start thinking about getting our life back on track.

You are stuck in a viscious cycle. The perc's are deluding you into believeing everything is right with the world. It isn't..nothing could be farther from the truth. I still hear you romanticizing.

There are lots of Type A personalities. I will control everything and everyone around me if allowed. But again, this "control" is an illusion. You can't put a square peg in a round hole no matter how hard you try. When you are fighting to force things to be the way you think they should be, when you are battling for control, when you are snatching the wheel away and jumping back in the drivers seat all the time - you are acutally being controlled by the thing you are trying to beat. The answer? It's called letting go..and it's learned behavior. We start with baby steps. The first of which is usually admitting we can't control the drug and reaching out for help. Admitting defeat. If this is going to improve Dale you have to be willing to admit there is a problem, reach out for help and then be willing to let someone else call the shots for a little while. Even when you don't like it. Remember - your best efforts got you where you are today. Right?

After a while things will start to improve and we learn that letting go wasn't so hard and maybe someone else's advice is worth taking. We can then begin to consider doing the same in other areas of life. As long as you are still trying to wrestle this situation into submission - you will loose every single time.

I just returned from taking a man to treatment in a residential recovery residence. I've known this man through mutual friends for over 10 years. He's destroyed his marriage, his relationship with his children, his career, his other family relationships - everything around him has gone to sh**. Finally - the bottom was reached and he became willing to listen to someone else and to admit just maybe he didn't have all the damn answers. He's taking a chance. He was shaking like a leaf, terrified of what the future holds..but he was willing to try something different. I was shaking like a leaf too...terrified he would bolt any minute. If he had there would have been nothing I could have done. But he didn't. How much courage did it take to leave everything familiar & go live in a recovery residence with a bunch of other men who are trying to live a clean and new way of life? Alot..it took alot more courage to stick with it than it would have to run away again. This is a normal, upper middle class father, husband, friend, grandchild, brother, son...we come from all backgrounds and walks of life, we have people who care about us but just don't know what to do. There is no shame in asking for help. The shame comes from continuing down the destructive path we've been following all along. The shame & fear keeps us trapped.

I'm praying for you and your wife. You know what the next right step is. I hope you take it.

Buzz - Please read the results of hearing from my doctor in my "I took the first step" thread. I was so afraid for so long. Without realizing that help was only a phone call away. Remember, your PM docs hear this stuff all the time, more than you could imagine. You just might find the help you need!

God I am down to 5 a day and its killing me I feel like I have been run over by a truck. Is it normal to have w/d when your still taking 50 mg a day. It is killing me. Tina I did call the nurse pract that all ways sees me (by the way told her numersous times I wanted to scale back on the pills, while she hads me a script for 240 of them) she is on leave i think she had a baby. I could not imagine c/t, I thought I was a strong person but I apparently am not. For some reason I cannot just turn myself over. Just let it go, let someone else run with it for ahwile. I have not idea how many I was doing last week, but I feel bad right now.

I am going out to search my truck I have had to have dropped one in there somewhere

When you get sick and tired of feeling sick and tired - you'll do whatever it takes to get well. Get some help. Stop trying to do this on your own. Make an appointment with someone else in the practice or speak to someone else there..don't give up. If you don't want to do that..seek other help. Are you still looking for a way around it? The only way is through it. You've told your wife - go for it now. Don't look back.

You were probably taking several hundred milligrams a day last week - atleast double what you are taking now. Yes, it would be normal to feel crappy when cutting your dose. This is withdrawl...just not as extreme because you are still getting some in your body. It's like a steep taper. In a few days this will level out and your body will get used to the lower dose. IF you are trying to taper, you can drop it again then.

Have you tried motrin for the body aches? Immodium for the stomach problems? Don't know what symptoms you are having so I don't know how to help. You might need to take a few days off Dale. I know it's out of character for you - but it's time to take care of yourself.

Feeling w/d at 50mg after taking as much as you were is NOT unusual. Part of it comes from your mind as well. Call another doctor dear! Your PA must work under someone? You can't wait for her to come back. It could be weeks and weeks!

I jsut don't undersatnd why I have to be in pain all the time, I am in pain if I take them and I am hurt more if I don't. What the hell difference does it make, some pain or alot of pain. "I have spent all my waking moments in pain, to you everything always seems the same" Words I live by I wrote this in another land, another time, somewhere that no one should be.

Buzz - I know how you feel, I too take my meds for chronic pain. Then you try to go off and it's even worse. But you have to think about the fact that continuing on the path you are on will not end well. Divorced, jail, dead? Any and all are possible. Have you checked out any methadone clinics? A nice slow taper?

You have to decide what you want - life or death. The drug use will only escalate. We have poured our hearts out. We will be here and you know it. We want to help you, but you must be willing to help yourself. You must be ready to make changes. You must reach a point where the pain of staying the same is too great. You're close now...atleast that's how it sounds.

Get help. Stop trying to fight this alone. We'll be here.

I kinda thought thats what I am doing ?

I have admitted I have no control, I have given all my pills to my wife to hand out what else do I need to do ??

Your wife had the pills last time and that didn't turn out so well. Plus, she doens't know abuot the oxy! So how will that work out? Can you handle holding them on your own? I couldnt'. Found out the hard way! Call a doctor. Get off the oxy period. Go on methadone and start tapering. I think that would be good for you honey! Just my opinion but I honestly believe that would be a good route for you! You may even be able to stay on a low dose of the methadone later on for your back pain as well! One medication, then give them to your wife to dispense. That is what I would suggest.

I am tapering, I have no oxy. I am taking 5 down from 10-15.

I know... but don't you have an oxy script coming soon? I know I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation and not fill it...

I just called my PM clinic and left a message that I am trying to taper off the pain meds for them to call me back. I called and left a message for my gp to call me back to get a referral to another back place obviously this one is more concerned on keeping me in pain pills. My wife has my percs I do not know what else I can do, I am trying.

Dale

Buzz...................I have been reading your threads and keeping up with them,,,,,you sound like you are just stuck...like you know you need to stop,but dont know if you want to............you need to make up your mind for you,not your wife, not for anything or anybody,if you dont do it for you, I promise you it wont get done,,,,,,,,,,,it will get done half ***, but thats it and then it will be back to square one, I got clean about 2 years ago coldturkey with NA went backout, did a number on myself with the OCs, I am now on Methadone for 2 weeks, I was on a 900mg a day OC habit, titrated myself down to 50mg a day and got stuck, I am now doing what i need to do to be clean of opiates..........at any cost, if you want to get clean u will chase this just like you chase your pills, the other side is great...as long as you do the next right thing the next right thing will happen, but if yyou are just doing this becuse you think you need to do it for others it will not get done..........you are doing good and starting off great,but do it for YOU, if you nned help, there is Methadone and Sub and there is enough info on this board on both..........keep going forward and do the next right thing for you.......KEEP POSTING,,,,,,WHATEVER YOU FEEL........CHRISTINE

Hi Buzz, I have chimed in here to you a few times, just know that i have been following your story every step of the way, i also feel your pain.
I know FIRST HAND just how you feel and the tough spot that you are in.

There are so so many people like you and me who have VERY REAL chronic pain issues who are prescribed the pain medication and need it in order to be able to live a life of quality and end up building tolerance as well as getting addicted to it.

I acknowledge in order for addicts to recover they MUST give up their DOC and commit to NEVER doing it again, however, I also acknowledge that it isnt always realistic or do-able for those who suffer with chronic pain. Some people suffer with such chronic pain that without their medication they couldnt even come close to functioning or live a life of any quality.

Even though these people may become addicted to their meds and truely need them, they still need to be held accountable. Buzz, as every one here has already told you and i am sure you already realize it...your addiction could lead to the ruins of your life as well as life or death. You have to WANT recovery as well as commit yourself to getting better.

My advice to you is to come COMPLETELY clean with your wife as well as your doctor. If you need these meds for your chronic pain so as you can live a decent quality of life, you first need to have a serious talk about these issues with your doctor as well as you need a person (such as your wife) who will be active in your medical care and the correct dispensing of your medications as well as hold you accountable for your actions. You CAN get your addiction under control as well as live a productive life, IF YOU REALLY WANT IT!!!!!!! The help and support is out there, seize it!!!!!!

I am here routing for your life Buzz!
ValleyGurl

Wow!!! That is awesome Buzz! You are right, you have made all the right steps. Both of us in one day? We should make this a holiday. I do still recommend you bringing up metha