raylp
11-08-2005, 12:09 PM
I've had TMJ issues for the last year, which arose from muscular tension, spasms, and led to a temporary dislocation of the jaw. Then the discs were out of place and I had restricted opening.
For months I have been focusing on treatments for TMJ: massage for really tight muscles, splint therapy, relaxation exercises, nutrition. They all helped, but recently I injured my knee and started wondering what the heck was going on with my body? Within one year I started having all kinds of problems, whereas before I was healthy.
My orthopedic surgeon recommended a lyme test and sure enough I had a positive result. It indicated long-term Lyme. I then went and looked up the symptoms and there was TMJ, as well as alot of other things I have been dealing with this last year.
Alot of internet research has showed me that Lyme is underdiagnosed and typically undertreated. The conventional perception on Lyme is that comes from a tick, and if there is no tick, there is no lyme. If there is Lyme, they treat it with antibiotics. If the antibiotics don't work, then it isn't Lyme.
Digging deeper, it became more obvious that Lyme is more than this. Is is a group of infections that can cause a whole range of symptoms. It can be treated, usually you need to get to a Lyme specialist. Then, as with TMJ, there is a huge range of these folks. Some are pro-antibiotics, some mix alternative with western medicine, and then some say antibiotics are not helpful and they use a different group of treatments.
If you go ahead and get yourself examined for Lyme, be prepared for resistance from your physician. Our country's medical system is still in the dark ages about these things.
I'm doing alot of reading on Lyme since being tested, and what I have found completely deconstructs the common perceptions we have about the infection. Two top microbiologists working with Lyme found that they could no longer find blood samples free of Lyme. They also found Lyme present in bodily fluids meaning it could spread without a tick or mosquito. In England, people who never go near the woods were diagnosed with it.
There are alot of possible symptoms, but they aren't the same in any two people. Neck stiffness/pain, muscle pain, TMJ, joint problems, back pain, nausea, fever, chills, tingling in extremities, headaches, brain fog, dizziness/fainting, confusion, difficulty in finding words, fatigue, irritability, confusion, depression, personality changes, disorientation, panic attacks, and more. As an immune system thing, it gets worse with stress, and also goes through cycles. I think from what I understand it is something like a 30- day cycle.
There is alot of info out there online. If you decide to research it, start with the lyme foundation, lyme.org and other reputable sites.
It might seem frightening to think that this is a possibility, but in my case, I was grateful to find out that my symptoms had an underlying cause.
For months I have been focusing on treatments for TMJ: massage for really tight muscles, splint therapy, relaxation exercises, nutrition. They all helped, but recently I injured my knee and started wondering what the heck was going on with my body? Within one year I started having all kinds of problems, whereas before I was healthy.
My orthopedic surgeon recommended a lyme test and sure enough I had a positive result. It indicated long-term Lyme. I then went and looked up the symptoms and there was TMJ, as well as alot of other things I have been dealing with this last year.
Alot of internet research has showed me that Lyme is underdiagnosed and typically undertreated. The conventional perception on Lyme is that comes from a tick, and if there is no tick, there is no lyme. If there is Lyme, they treat it with antibiotics. If the antibiotics don't work, then it isn't Lyme.
Digging deeper, it became more obvious that Lyme is more than this. Is is a group of infections that can cause a whole range of symptoms. It can be treated, usually you need to get to a Lyme specialist. Then, as with TMJ, there is a huge range of these folks. Some are pro-antibiotics, some mix alternative with western medicine, and then some say antibiotics are not helpful and they use a different group of treatments.
If you go ahead and get yourself examined for Lyme, be prepared for resistance from your physician. Our country's medical system is still in the dark ages about these things.
I'm doing alot of reading on Lyme since being tested, and what I have found completely deconstructs the common perceptions we have about the infection. Two top microbiologists working with Lyme found that they could no longer find blood samples free of Lyme. They also found Lyme present in bodily fluids meaning it could spread without a tick or mosquito. In England, people who never go near the woods were diagnosed with it.
There are alot of possible symptoms, but they aren't the same in any two people. Neck stiffness/pain, muscle pain, TMJ, joint problems, back pain, nausea, fever, chills, tingling in extremities, headaches, brain fog, dizziness/fainting, confusion, difficulty in finding words, fatigue, irritability, confusion, depression, personality changes, disorientation, panic attacks, and more. As an immune system thing, it gets worse with stress, and also goes through cycles. I think from what I understand it is something like a 30- day cycle.
There is alot of info out there online. If you decide to research it, start with the lyme foundation, lyme.org and other reputable sites.
It might seem frightening to think that this is a possibility, but in my case, I was grateful to find out that my symptoms had an underlying cause.
Sponsor
CherylLynn24
11-08-2005, 09:10 PM
Good post. Lyme is something that people should be tested for who have on-going muscle problems. I've had my Son tested for Lyme, Mycoplasma, and a host of other bacteria/viruses that also have a hand in muscle disorders. Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome also go hand in hand with TMJD.
Again, good point to bring up. Those who have stubborn muscle problems should be tested for Lyme, as well as other possible culprits.
Again, good point to bring up. Those who have stubborn muscle problems should be tested for Lyme, as well as other possible culprits.
raylp
11-08-2005, 09:17 PM
May I ask what the results were? I've been learning alot about this lately and am curious. If it were a western blot test, the specific bands would be important. Doctors typically use this counting procedure in which you only have lyme disease if you have a certain number of bands, but I have read some info that contradicts this. These sources say if you have any Lyme specific bands, you have Lyme in your system.
CherylLynn24
11-08-2005, 09:24 PM
His results on these two particular tests came back negative. Several other unrelated tests came back positive, though. I've researched this for quite some time and have found that most physicians prefer testing by method of PCR. Apparently, other testing methods are known to give false negatives.
What kind of meds do they have you taking for Lyme, if you don't mind my asking? And if you are on meds, have you experienced a Herxheimer reaction, as of yet?
What kind of meds do they have you taking for Lyme, if you don't mind my asking? And if you are on meds, have you experienced a Herxheimer reaction, as of yet?
raylp
11-08-2005, 10:25 PM
For the most accurate testing, check in the Bowen system. Their testing isn't based on the presence of antibodies, but instead they culture the bugs and look at them directly.
My primary physician did what most any HMO doc would do, and put me on doxycycline (100mg) 2x daily. I have felt a little fatigued, and have had some major night sweats, but that's about it. I'm not expecting much, because according to the literature I have been reading, these bugs are way too advanced for antibiotics, especially if the Lyme has been in the person's system for very long. They can duck and hide from these treatments.
I've been researching treatment protocols and am especially interested in the Samento herb. There are some significant studies on this wonderful herb and it's affect on the immune system. I want to get into a treatment protocol, preferably under a doctor's guidance. I'm also looking into the work of Dr. Klinghardt. He seems really advanced. Another thing that looks intriguing, but difficult to explain is immuneresponse training. AA Immune system clinic treats this. Wierd but seems like it works.
My primary physician did what most any HMO doc would do, and put me on doxycycline (100mg) 2x daily. I have felt a little fatigued, and have had some major night sweats, but that's about it. I'm not expecting much, because according to the literature I have been reading, these bugs are way too advanced for antibiotics, especially if the Lyme has been in the person's system for very long. They can duck and hide from these treatments.
I've been researching treatment protocols and am especially interested in the Samento herb. There are some significant studies on this wonderful herb and it's affect on the immune system. I want to get into a treatment protocol, preferably under a doctor's guidance. I'm also looking into the work of Dr. Klinghardt. He seems really advanced. Another thing that looks intriguing, but difficult to explain is immuneresponse training. AA Immune system clinic treats this. Wierd but seems like it works.
CherylLynn24
11-08-2005, 11:53 PM
I don't recall reading of the "Bowen" system. Most of the professors that I've spoken to strictly rely on PCR versus looking for the presence of antibodies or a titre. (PCR: A technique for amplifying DNA sequences in vitro by separating the DNA into two strands and incubating it with oligonucleotide primers and DNA polymerase. It can amplify a specific sequence of DNA by as many as one billion times and is important in biotechnology, forensics, medicine, and genetic research.)
My Son is currently taking Doxycycline, as well. (100mgs. 2x day) From what I understand, Doxy seems to be the drug of choice for most of these bugs. I think that the treatment time (months, years, etc.) is what most people can't handle. Also, I don't think that it helps that these bugs can also invade the cell wall, thus making them hard to identify.
I'll have to check into the herb you described, as well as immuneresponse training. It sounds interesting. Have you ever read over the work of Professor Garth Nicholson? He's quite advanced, as well. Keep me updated on how you progress. I'd be interested in hearing.
My Son is currently taking Doxycycline, as well. (100mgs. 2x day) From what I understand, Doxy seems to be the drug of choice for most of these bugs. I think that the treatment time (months, years, etc.) is what most people can't handle. Also, I don't think that it helps that these bugs can also invade the cell wall, thus making them hard to identify.
I'll have to check into the herb you described, as well as immuneresponse training. It sounds interesting. Have you ever read over the work of Professor Garth Nicholson? He's quite advanced, as well. Keep me updated on how you progress. I'd be interested in hearing.
Michelle W
11-09-2005, 01:53 AM
Very interesting topic! I am looking into being tested for Lyme's Disease this week. I have an autoimmune disorder. They think it is RA and Raynaud's, but I am not convinced as I have not been tested for lyme's disease yet. I appreciate you both sharing your information.
Suzq222
11-09-2005, 05:33 AM
Michelle,
Does the Raynauds have anything to do with your TMJ? I was diagnosed with Raynauds years ago and I've been suffering from muscular tmj for the past 2 1/2 years.
Sue
Does the Raynauds have anything to do with your TMJ? I was diagnosed with Raynauds years ago and I've been suffering from muscular tmj for the past 2 1/2 years.
Sue
Soupdejour
11-09-2005, 03:19 PM
There seems to be many disorders related to TMD, it's something - for instance I've had a years long problem w/estrogen/hormone levels from an early hysterectomy- googled the other day TMJ and hormones and sure enough a study linking estrogen deficiencies and TMD. and interesting the most common average age for TMD for women is 38 to 40, this about the time hormone levels start to alter for women - maybe this all has a common link.
raylp
11-09-2005, 08:23 PM
I just was informed that the 30 day cycle basically is a moon cycle, and that the symptoms would flare up during the time around the full moon.
I also read that "lymies" have seasonal flareups in the spring (apr-may) and in the fall (sept-oct)
I haven't come across that professor's work. I'm still learning. As far as PCR for testing, yes that's about as accurate as the standard tests go according to Lida Mattman, the microbiologist I have been reading. I'm going to send off for the Bowen results. And yes, I will let you know how things go. This actually is quite a rewarding journey- much better than focusing on a symptom. I feel like I am getting somewhere.
I also read that "lymies" have seasonal flareups in the spring (apr-may) and in the fall (sept-oct)
I haven't come across that professor's work. I'm still learning. As far as PCR for testing, yes that's about as accurate as the standard tests go according to Lida Mattman, the microbiologist I have been reading. I'm going to send off for the Bowen results. And yes, I will let you know how things go. This actually is quite a rewarding journey- much better than focusing on a symptom. I feel like I am getting somewhere.
Michelle W
11-10-2005, 01:05 AM
Susq, I am not sure if the Raynaud's has anything to do with the TMJD for sure or not. It seem in most of the reading I have done the past few years that most people that suffer from TMJD also have some sort of autoimmune disorder such as Chronic Fatiure Syndrome, RA, Raynuads, Hypothyroidism, Fibromyalgia, Lyme's Disease, Lupus or etc. I really think there is a connection that has yet to be made, but this is only something I have discussed with a couple of friends.
I see my new rheumatoidolgist tomorrow, so if I hear anything interesting after the visit or after my blood work I will let you know.
I see my new rheumatoidolgist tomorrow, so if I hear anything interesting after the visit or after my blood work I will let you know.
raylp
11-10-2005, 12:22 PM
I'm going to add resources here as I find them.
ILIADS International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society
There is a bullletin on this site from a Dr. Burrascano, who treats chronic Lyme patients, mainly with long-term antibiotics. While I don't know if the antibiotics work, he does include nutritional info for the disease, such as supplements to take for muscle-related issues. This may be of help to some of you out there.
Another alternative treatment option is using a rife machine. It sounds strange, but the theory is that each internal microorganism has a specific frequency, and if you play that frequency back to them strongly enough, they actually die. Hulda Clark did work with this as did Rife and others. There are many people who say this brought them back to pretty much normal from having serious problems.
ILIADS International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society
There is a bullletin on this site from a Dr. Burrascano, who treats chronic Lyme patients, mainly with long-term antibiotics. While I don't know if the antibiotics work, he does include nutritional info for the disease, such as supplements to take for muscle-related issues. This may be of help to some of you out there.
Another alternative treatment option is using a rife machine. It sounds strange, but the theory is that each internal microorganism has a specific frequency, and if you play that frequency back to them strongly enough, they actually die. Hulda Clark did work with this as did Rife and others. There are many people who say this brought them back to pretty much normal from having serious problems.
CherylLynn24
11-10-2005, 03:25 PM
raylp: Thanks for the heads up on nutritional information regarding muscles. I will look into this further. Keep me updated on how your treatment goes and what you learn along the way. I'm quite interested.
Michelle: I'd also be interested in hearing about your appt. and what the doctor thinks, as well as your bloodwork results.
Michelle: I'd also be interested in hearing about your appt. and what the doctor thinks, as well as your bloodwork results.
raylp
11-12-2005, 10:16 AM
I've been reading about various alternative therapies for Lyme for about 7 days straight.
Many therapies are expensive, time consuming, and questionable.
I prayed two days ago for a therapy that would be effective, economical, and something that most people could do.
Since then two therapies have come onto my radar, and I wanted to post these separately. Both are unusual. Both have reports of people working their way through the healing process.
The first is the Rife machine. This can be researched on the web, and there is a book out there that has alot of info. A rife machine can cost between $300-5000, but that seems like it is alot less than the costs of most other alternative treatments. The treatments and transportation add up fast.
Lyme and rife [removed] groups is a good resource for this.
The second is the salt/vit c protocol. This sounds nuts at first, but look up lymephotos on the web, and check it out. Also lymestrategies [removed] groups.
This may be the most affordable treatment out there. The testimonials are compelling.
[Please do not write in search engines, which directs someone in a website search. Please read the board guidelines, by clicking the "Posting Rules" above for more details. Thanks - Well-come Moderator.]
Many therapies are expensive, time consuming, and questionable.
I prayed two days ago for a therapy that would be effective, economical, and something that most people could do.
Since then two therapies have come onto my radar, and I wanted to post these separately. Both are unusual. Both have reports of people working their way through the healing process.
The first is the Rife machine. This can be researched on the web, and there is a book out there that has alot of info. A rife machine can cost between $300-5000, but that seems like it is alot less than the costs of most other alternative treatments. The treatments and transportation add up fast.
Lyme and rife [removed] groups is a good resource for this.
The second is the salt/vit c protocol. This sounds nuts at first, but look up lymephotos on the web, and check it out. Also lymestrategies [removed] groups.
This may be the most affordable treatment out there. The testimonials are compelling.
[Please do not write in search engines, which directs someone in a website search. Please read the board guidelines, by clicking the "Posting Rules" above for more details. Thanks - Well-come Moderator.]
Michelle W
11-18-2005, 04:39 AM
Cheryl,
I will let you know what I hear from the RA doctor. I am suppose to see him the week after Thanksgiving, but I don't know if I can hold out that long for my bloodwork results. I am thinking about calling tomorrow to see if they will tell me the results over the phone. I am sort of a nervous wreck worrying about it. It is almost 3:00 am, and I can't sleep.
They ran another Lupus test, a lyme test, and a new RA test that will tell you if you will develop it in your lifetime. It is suppose to be really accurate. They didn't see any sense in checking my RA factor again. It is always high. I will talk with you soon.
I will let you know what I hear from the RA doctor. I am suppose to see him the week after Thanksgiving, but I don't know if I can hold out that long for my bloodwork results. I am thinking about calling tomorrow to see if they will tell me the results over the phone. I am sort of a nervous wreck worrying about it. It is almost 3:00 am, and I can't sleep.
They ran another Lupus test, a lyme test, and a new RA test that will tell you if you will develop it in your lifetime. It is suppose to be really accurate. They didn't see any sense in checking my RA factor again. It is always high. I will talk with you soon.
CherylLynn24
11-19-2005, 08:50 PM
Much can be found out through research, although you have to spend much time weeding through what is/isn't reputable. I have heard of Rife machines. The whole concept makes sense to me, but seems to be controversial to the public still. The idea of it killing off bacteria/viruses make good sense, but I think that cancer patients using the machine and not getting results have added to the controversy. I have seen Rife machines between the prices of $500-700. The vitamin C/ salt protocol sounds to be quite interesting, as well. Let me know what you decide and how you respond.
Michelle.......Do post your bloodwork results when you get them. I'd be interested in how you fare, as well. There's no reason to wait until after the holiday to get your results.......it can't hurt to call sooner to see if your doctor has received them.
Michelle.......Do post your bloodwork results when you get them. I'd be interested in how you fare, as well. There's no reason to wait until after the holiday to get your results.......it can't hurt to call sooner to see if your doctor has received them.
raylp
11-20-2005, 02:46 PM
I've been studying this stuff for the last week, and have made some distinctions. Basically there are alot of protocols for treating lyme and or other coinfections. It can be overwhelming to decide which way to turn. I kept sorting through the options, narrowing things down. It's been a fascinating journey.
After learning that some leading Lyme experts are finding multiple Lyme infections in a particular family, leading them to consider that it can be contracted in other ways than just ticks, my wife went in to be tested. She had the standard western blot test. It came back "negative", however there were two bands that showed positive. Doctors apparently diagnose someone based on the number of antibody bands that are present, and if someone has less than 5 out of 10 on one of these tests, they do not have Lyme disease.
We looked up the bands and one was Bp, or Borellia burgdorferi, and the other was a flagella or something, which we learned may be a tail or whiplike organism used by Bp. So basically she has antibodies for Lyme in her system, but not enough to be diagnosed for Lyme. I'm not sure what this means, but my wife decided that she would start eliminating them despite the doctor saying she does not have Lyme.
She and I had read up on the salt/vit c experimental protocol, and she started it gently. She took 1 gram of salt in a capsule in the am, and then another in the afternoon, both with Vit C. Within a day or two she started feeling things. She sensed an exodus of sorts which has continued and somewhat intensified for the last 5 days. She says she hears them coming out her ears sometimes, as well as feeling little red bumps on various parts of her body. She is taking only 3 grams of celtic salt per day with Vit C. and supplements.
We both think this is interesting to say the least. She has not had any other side effects. We will be posting her results to the lyme strategies group online. This is where alot of the personal research is posted.
Now for me, I have had a different process. Maybe I make things more complicated than my wife. Probably. I started supplements, the same that are part of the salt/vit c protocol. I also started taking 1 gram of salt. That's all that felt right.
That brings me to an important distinction: I strongly believe that we must retain our power, and ultimately decide what feels right. There are tools that can help someone be more clear in this process, such as kinesiology, or going to someone who can do this. If you are unfamiliar with this, it is a technique that tests your own body's yes/no reaction to questions using a muscular reaction to certain questions. You can use this tool to help with dosages, frequencies, etc.
Now for the really wild stuff. If the kinesiology wasn't enough, well I discovered so many other things this week, mainly in the field of Rife, or using electromagnetic frequencies to inhibit or eliminate the viral or bacterial cause of many illnesses. This is absolutely fascinating. The history of Dr. Rife is extraordinary. He was one of the top scientists of his day, privately funded, and able to go as far as he could imagine. He worked with other top doctors and scientists to discover that many major illnesses or diseases had a viral or bacterial component, and if these were treated with their own particular frequency, they would be destroyed. He cured many cancer patients in the 1930's before he and the science were suppressed.
This technology was not really available until a reemergence in the late 1980's and early 1990's. A book came out about then called "The Cancer Cure that Worked", reintroducing the topic. Rife technology's application to lyme can be read about in the book " When antobiotics fail.. Lyme disease and Rife machines". Basically in the early 1990's some guy with a serious case of Lyme, but with sufficient funds and skills, made a machine and tested it with a powerful microscope. He was able to kill the Lyme pathogen, and treated himself. He is now free of symptoms, and helping others to figure this stuff out and get better.
There are a plethora of Rife machines out there. The book sorts through and describes which ones are commonly used and what the normal results are.
Then I found out about something even better than this. There is a tool called an FSCAN2 that not only can treat pathogens with frequencies, but it can diagnose as well. This handheld device is run over the body, and is said to report which frequencies are being emitted from the pathogens. You can then treat these frequencies right from the same machine. It is expensive, about $4000.00. Some practioners use this as part of their "experimentation" with certain illnesses, because it is illegal to treat someone with Rife in this country. Rife is being used in clinics in most other countries all over the world though. It has been said that despite suppression, this type of technology will become a major part of the medical industry by the end of this century. Many scientists are finally coming to the same results as Rife, just 70 years later.
On the other side, there are machines for as little as 300-700$ that have the ability to send frequencies. So there is quite a range here.
Today I learned of another device that is said to actually be able to send frequencies over great distances to an intended target person or pet. It hooks up to a rife machine and does some extra processing in addition to the transmission. Apparently it uses military technology that was for sending transmissions to nuclear subs. Pretty cool.
So I am going to Rife. Using what machine, I am not sure. It turns out the author to one of the major rife books lives down the street from me, so I am going to see her today. I'll post the results.
After learning that some leading Lyme experts are finding multiple Lyme infections in a particular family, leading them to consider that it can be contracted in other ways than just ticks, my wife went in to be tested. She had the standard western blot test. It came back "negative", however there were two bands that showed positive. Doctors apparently diagnose someone based on the number of antibody bands that are present, and if someone has less than 5 out of 10 on one of these tests, they do not have Lyme disease.
We looked up the bands and one was Bp, or Borellia burgdorferi, and the other was a flagella or something, which we learned may be a tail or whiplike organism used by Bp. So basically she has antibodies for Lyme in her system, but not enough to be diagnosed for Lyme. I'm not sure what this means, but my wife decided that she would start eliminating them despite the doctor saying she does not have Lyme.
She and I had read up on the salt/vit c experimental protocol, and she started it gently. She took 1 gram of salt in a capsule in the am, and then another in the afternoon, both with Vit C. Within a day or two she started feeling things. She sensed an exodus of sorts which has continued and somewhat intensified for the last 5 days. She says she hears them coming out her ears sometimes, as well as feeling little red bumps on various parts of her body. She is taking only 3 grams of celtic salt per day with Vit C. and supplements.
We both think this is interesting to say the least. She has not had any other side effects. We will be posting her results to the lyme strategies group online. This is where alot of the personal research is posted.
Now for me, I have had a different process. Maybe I make things more complicated than my wife. Probably. I started supplements, the same that are part of the salt/vit c protocol. I also started taking 1 gram of salt. That's all that felt right.
That brings me to an important distinction: I strongly believe that we must retain our power, and ultimately decide what feels right. There are tools that can help someone be more clear in this process, such as kinesiology, or going to someone who can do this. If you are unfamiliar with this, it is a technique that tests your own body's yes/no reaction to questions using a muscular reaction to certain questions. You can use this tool to help with dosages, frequencies, etc.
Now for the really wild stuff. If the kinesiology wasn't enough, well I discovered so many other things this week, mainly in the field of Rife, or using electromagnetic frequencies to inhibit or eliminate the viral or bacterial cause of many illnesses. This is absolutely fascinating. The history of Dr. Rife is extraordinary. He was one of the top scientists of his day, privately funded, and able to go as far as he could imagine. He worked with other top doctors and scientists to discover that many major illnesses or diseases had a viral or bacterial component, and if these were treated with their own particular frequency, they would be destroyed. He cured many cancer patients in the 1930's before he and the science were suppressed.
This technology was not really available until a reemergence in the late 1980's and early 1990's. A book came out about then called "The Cancer Cure that Worked", reintroducing the topic. Rife technology's application to lyme can be read about in the book " When antobiotics fail.. Lyme disease and Rife machines". Basically in the early 1990's some guy with a serious case of Lyme, but with sufficient funds and skills, made a machine and tested it with a powerful microscope. He was able to kill the Lyme pathogen, and treated himself. He is now free of symptoms, and helping others to figure this stuff out and get better.
There are a plethora of Rife machines out there. The book sorts through and describes which ones are commonly used and what the normal results are.
Then I found out about something even better than this. There is a tool called an FSCAN2 that not only can treat pathogens with frequencies, but it can diagnose as well. This handheld device is run over the body, and is said to report which frequencies are being emitted from the pathogens. You can then treat these frequencies right from the same machine. It is expensive, about $4000.00. Some practioners use this as part of their "experimentation" with certain illnesses, because it is illegal to treat someone with Rife in this country. Rife is being used in clinics in most other countries all over the world though. It has been said that despite suppression, this type of technology will become a major part of the medical industry by the end of this century. Many scientists are finally coming to the same results as Rife, just 70 years later.
On the other side, there are machines for as little as 300-700$ that have the ability to send frequencies. So there is quite a range here.
Today I learned of another device that is said to actually be able to send frequencies over great distances to an intended target person or pet. It hooks up to a rife machine and does some extra processing in addition to the transmission. Apparently it uses military technology that was for sending transmissions to nuclear subs. Pretty cool.
So I am going to Rife. Using what machine, I am not sure. It turns out the author to one of the major rife books lives down the street from me, so I am going to see her today. I'll post the results.
raylp
11-23-2005, 07:44 PM
I had two sessions with what I will call electromagnetic therapy. I experimented with a high-end rife machine in the first session and went from crutches to a cane the next day. I'm not sure if all of that improvement can be attributed to the frequency therapy, but I did feel quite a bit better.
After the second session, using laser and biofeedback gadgets, my swelling in my knee was reduced significantly. Maybe by 25-30%. There is now greater circulation and sensation there as well. By the second day I would say the swelling has reduced by 40-50% (wow).
I've been through 5 weeks of different therapies for my swollen knee, including drugs- antibiotics and motrin, accupuncture, herbs, supplements, etc., none of these provided much of a change compared to these two treatments. There is enough evidence here for me to justify purchasing a unit and experimenting further with Rife technology.
My research has shown that there is some amazing stuff out there. It looks like phase 1 star trek medicine. From what I understand, it is possible that in about 20-30 years, if things continue on their current course, doctors may be employing more advanced versions of these instruments as part of their practice. Research is currently being done by mainstream labs on electromagnetics and health. It's just a matter of time before this is accepted technology, but unfortunately we will have to go through a paradigm shift for that to occur. A big one.
That's alot to say after two sessions, but I have been researching this pretty heavily. There are many, many testimonials from people who have regained their health from things I never would have thought repairable. I definately recommend looking into this a bit for your family's health. Imagine spending $1000-$3000 and being able to really treat the underlying illnesses that exist in any family. It may seem like alot, but what does an illness really cost in terms of emotional, mental, physical, and financial stress?
If you decide to explore this stuff, there is alot of information to wade through. Perhaps get a book or two to start. Read some testimonials. I am willing to answer any questions too. Of all the things I have explored, I would say the work of Dr. Sutherland is perhaps the most advanced. I think a brief journey through the history and gadgets, and then going toward him would reduce the information load alot. That's the way it looks now. He and his colleagues can assist in a number of ways.
This may appear to be off topic from TMJ, but remember that my TMJ may be a symptom of other underlying issues. It really started about the same time that a number of other symptoms picked up as well. My goal is to clear those out and then see if the TMJ changes or improves.
After the second session, using laser and biofeedback gadgets, my swelling in my knee was reduced significantly. Maybe by 25-30%. There is now greater circulation and sensation there as well. By the second day I would say the swelling has reduced by 40-50% (wow).
I've been through 5 weeks of different therapies for my swollen knee, including drugs- antibiotics and motrin, accupuncture, herbs, supplements, etc., none of these provided much of a change compared to these two treatments. There is enough evidence here for me to justify purchasing a unit and experimenting further with Rife technology.
My research has shown that there is some amazing stuff out there. It looks like phase 1 star trek medicine. From what I understand, it is possible that in about 20-30 years, if things continue on their current course, doctors may be employing more advanced versions of these instruments as part of their practice. Research is currently being done by mainstream labs on electromagnetics and health. It's just a matter of time before this is accepted technology, but unfortunately we will have to go through a paradigm shift for that to occur. A big one.
That's alot to say after two sessions, but I have been researching this pretty heavily. There are many, many testimonials from people who have regained their health from things I never would have thought repairable. I definately recommend looking into this a bit for your family's health. Imagine spending $1000-$3000 and being able to really treat the underlying illnesses that exist in any family. It may seem like alot, but what does an illness really cost in terms of emotional, mental, physical, and financial stress?
If you decide to explore this stuff, there is alot of information to wade through. Perhaps get a book or two to start. Read some testimonials. I am willing to answer any questions too. Of all the things I have explored, I would say the work of Dr. Sutherland is perhaps the most advanced. I think a brief journey through the history and gadgets, and then going toward him would reduce the information load alot. That's the way it looks now. He and his colleagues can assist in a number of ways.
This may appear to be off topic from TMJ, but remember that my TMJ may be a symptom of other underlying issues. It really started about the same time that a number of other symptoms picked up as well. My goal is to clear those out and then see if the TMJ changes or improves.
CherylLynn24
11-27-2005, 08:48 PM
It sounds as if you and your wife are showing some improvement, while following two different protocols. I find this to be utterly fascinating to say the least. Actually, I don't find this subject to be off topic from TMJD. Many times, TMJD is only a symptom of an underlying disorder. One needs to investigate other avenues when problems persist to find out if there is indeed something else that needs to be examined. I do feel that this is a valid discussion.
I have read in depth concerning Rife, but assumed it was mostly used for Lyme disease. However, I wasn't aware that it was illegal to treat someone with Rife in this country. (I assume you live in the states, as well) Rife's theory makes sense........using frequency to "kill off" bacteria. No different than vibrating carbon in a microwave oven.
This makes me wonder if someone diagnosed with any form of Mycoplasma, Chlamydia pneumoniae, as well as a host of other bacterium could be helped by Rife, or from the vitamin C/Salt protocol. I have found many forms of bacteria can cause persistant and painful muscle conditions. (including TMJD, MPD, FMS, CFS, etc.)
When you have the time, I'd love to hear more of your experiences as well as those of your wife.
Michelle.........Have you gotten your bloodwork back, yet?
I have read in depth concerning Rife, but assumed it was mostly used for Lyme disease. However, I wasn't aware that it was illegal to treat someone with Rife in this country. (I assume you live in the states, as well) Rife's theory makes sense........using frequency to "kill off" bacteria. No different than vibrating carbon in a microwave oven.
This makes me wonder if someone diagnosed with any form of Mycoplasma, Chlamydia pneumoniae, as well as a host of other bacterium could be helped by Rife, or from the vitamin C/Salt protocol. I have found many forms of bacteria can cause persistant and painful muscle conditions. (including TMJD, MPD, FMS, CFS, etc.)
When you have the time, I'd love to hear more of your experiences as well as those of your wife.
Michelle.........Have you gotten your bloodwork back, yet?
Michelle W
11-27-2005, 09:54 PM
No, I get my bloodwork back tomorrow morning. I tried to get through before the holidays, and all I could get was a busy signal. I gave up, so I am waiting on my appointment.
raylp
11-27-2005, 11:04 PM
Michelle, I'm thinking of you and your upcoming appointment. Make sure you get a copy of the tests so that you can have the option of doing some research. I'd love to hear the results.
Cheryl, those are the same questions that really are driving me. Where would we be if it turns out that devitalizing the bacteria, infections, viruses that are the underlying roots of the condition would make a person better? That is a pretty exciting idea.
I watched a documentary of the history of Royal Raymond Rife, the scientist who really was instrumental in much of this study, and it is extremely interesting. I recommend it as part of an introduction to Rife technology. I'm not sure if I can put the title in here because it technically is a product, but I will say it has 2 parts and is quite compelling. It shows how the frequency therapy was helpful for several conditions, and was clearly documented in medical journals and such.
As far as the legality, I think that it is illegal for licensed medical practioners to use the equipment here in the states. Yes, I am in NY, btw. I do know that non-medical people are using the equipment, so maybe they are ok as long as they are careful what claims they make. I have seen that many websites that sell equipment have no testimonials, because this must be a hot topic. Sometimes if you become a member of a certain site, then you can read the testimonials. I have seen a video tape of 25 testimonials ranging from cancer to asthma to full body fibromyalgia and they were extremely positive. You can find testimonials on non-commercial web sites.
Also, I have read that rife equipment is part of an overall set of recommended changes, such as drinking more water, watching PH, having bloodwork done, removing heavy metals if present, eating well, certain supplements, etc. So Rife may be best seen as a tool rather than a cure-all.
There are frequency listings in the various books out there that show particular frequencies for mycoplasma, chlamydia, bacteria, CFS, etc.
I'd love to share experiences, but at this point there aren't much more to share. We're just starting out. I did find a used FSCAN2, so I'll be experimenting as time allows in the next weeks. Apparently that device has a bit of a learning curve, in terms of interpreting the data.
I'm looking forward to journeying further here with some of you and seeing if we can't get some results.
Also- I did mention Dr. Sutherland - he helps clients with finding appropriate frequencies- also I would like to mention Dr. Loyd in Seattle. He is also very experienced with frequency treatments. I just heard a recording of one of his speeches and he mentions in great detail several testimonials. It seems as if they get you started, provide guidance, etc. and then a client continues with a frequency device of their own. This two guys appear to be in a league of their own with regard to Rife research.
Cheryl, those are the same questions that really are driving me. Where would we be if it turns out that devitalizing the bacteria, infections, viruses that are the underlying roots of the condition would make a person better? That is a pretty exciting idea.
I watched a documentary of the history of Royal Raymond Rife, the scientist who really was instrumental in much of this study, and it is extremely interesting. I recommend it as part of an introduction to Rife technology. I'm not sure if I can put the title in here because it technically is a product, but I will say it has 2 parts and is quite compelling. It shows how the frequency therapy was helpful for several conditions, and was clearly documented in medical journals and such.
As far as the legality, I think that it is illegal for licensed medical practioners to use the equipment here in the states. Yes, I am in NY, btw. I do know that non-medical people are using the equipment, so maybe they are ok as long as they are careful what claims they make. I have seen that many websites that sell equipment have no testimonials, because this must be a hot topic. Sometimes if you become a member of a certain site, then you can read the testimonials. I have seen a video tape of 25 testimonials ranging from cancer to asthma to full body fibromyalgia and they were extremely positive. You can find testimonials on non-commercial web sites.
Also, I have read that rife equipment is part of an overall set of recommended changes, such as drinking more water, watching PH, having bloodwork done, removing heavy metals if present, eating well, certain supplements, etc. So Rife may be best seen as a tool rather than a cure-all.
There are frequency listings in the various books out there that show particular frequencies for mycoplasma, chlamydia, bacteria, CFS, etc.
I'd love to share experiences, but at this point there aren't much more to share. We're just starting out. I did find a used FSCAN2, so I'll be experimenting as time allows in the next weeks. Apparently that device has a bit of a learning curve, in terms of interpreting the data.
I'm looking forward to journeying further here with some of you and seeing if we can't get some results.
Also- I did mention Dr. Sutherland - he helps clients with finding appropriate frequencies- also I would like to mention Dr. Loyd in Seattle. He is also very experienced with frequency treatments. I just heard a recording of one of his speeches and he mentions in great detail several testimonials. It seems as if they get you started, provide guidance, etc. and then a client continues with a frequency device of their own. This two guys appear to be in a league of their own with regard to Rife research.
CherylLynn24
11-29-2005, 12:41 AM
I do realize that the road to recovery is going to be a lengthy one. Do keep us posted from time to time as to how it is going, as well as if you come across anything new. I intend on spending much more time in the future researching the bacterial relationship between much of these disorders.
I found an interesting case study/abstract concerning the presence of bacteria in the synovial fluid of TMJ's. I thought that some may find it to be interesting, as I did.
The presence of bacteria in the synovial fluid of the temporomandibular joint and clinical significance: preliminary study.
Kim SJ, Park YH, Hong SP, Cho BO, Park JW, Kim SG.
Department of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Kangdong Sacred Heart Hospital, Hallym University, Seoul, South Korea.
PURPOSE: The objective of this study was to find any relation between the presence of specific bacterial species in the synovial fluid of the temporomandibular joint (TMJ) and clinical parameters. PATIENTS AND METHODS: We studied 43 patients (male-to-female ratio, 1:1.69; average age, 34.37 +/- 14.55 years). Thirty-three patients had a displaced disc in the TMJ (DD group), and 10 patients did not have a displaced disc of the TMJ or any symptom related to TMJ disorders (NDD group). Clinical examinations were made to determine maximum mouth opening, joint sounds, previous trauma history, systemic disease, and TMJ pain. Six bacterial species that were reported in other studies were chosen to evaluate the presence of bacteria in the TMJ for this study. RESULTS: Mycoplasma genitalium was most frequently detected in synovial fluid (86.0%). Staphylococcus aureus, Mycoplasma fermentans/orale, Actinobacillus actinomycetemcomitans, and Streptococcus mitis were detected in 51.2%, 37.2%, 25.6%, and 7.0% of samples, respectively. beta-Hemolytic Streptococcus was not detected. The prevalence of S aureus was significantly higher in the DD group than in the NDD group (P <.05). The patients who had M. fermentans/orale were 5.40 times more likely to be younger than 30 years than were those without M. fermentans/orale (P <.05). Those with M. genitalium were 5.81 times more likely to be female than were those without M. genitalium (P <.05). CONCLUSION: The presence of S. aureus in TMJ synovial fluid was related to TMJ disorder symptoms and clinical parameters seemed to be influenced by bacterial presence in TMJ synovial fluid.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14586850&dopt=Abstract
Pre-approved by Mod1
I found an interesting case study/abstract concerning the presence of bacteria in the synovial fluid of TMJ's. I thought that some may find it to be interesting, as I did.
The presence of bacteria in the synovial fluid of the temporomandibular joint and clinical significance: preliminary study.
Kim SJ, Park YH, Hong SP, Cho BO, Park JW, Kim SG.
Department of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Kangdong Sacred Heart Hospital, Hallym University, Seoul, South Korea.
PURPOSE: The objective of this study was to find any relation between the presence of specific bacterial species in the synovial fluid of the temporomandibular joint (TMJ) and clinical parameters. PATIENTS AND METHODS: We studied 43 patients (male-to-female ratio, 1:1.69; average age, 34.37 +/- 14.55 years). Thirty-three patients had a displaced disc in the TMJ (DD group), and 10 patients did not have a displaced disc of the TMJ or any symptom related to TMJ disorders (NDD group). Clinical examinations were made to determine maximum mouth opening, joint sounds, previous trauma history, systemic disease, and TMJ pain. Six bacterial species that were reported in other studies were chosen to evaluate the presence of bacteria in the TMJ for this study. RESULTS: Mycoplasma genitalium was most frequently detected in synovial fluid (86.0%). Staphylococcus aureus, Mycoplasma fermentans/orale, Actinobacillus actinomycetemcomitans, and Streptococcus mitis were detected in 51.2%, 37.2%, 25.6%, and 7.0% of samples, respectively. beta-Hemolytic Streptococcus was not detected. The prevalence of S aureus was significantly higher in the DD group than in the NDD group (P <.05). The patients who had M. fermentans/orale were 5.40 times more likely to be younger than 30 years than were those without M. fermentans/orale (P <.05). Those with M. genitalium were 5.81 times more likely to be female than were those without M. genitalium (P <.05). CONCLUSION: The presence of S. aureus in TMJ synovial fluid was related to TMJ disorder symptoms and clinical parameters seemed to be influenced by bacterial presence in TMJ synovial fluid.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14586850&dopt=Abstract
Pre-approved by Mod1
raylp
11-29-2005, 09:54 AM
Wow, that is superb. Makes perfect sense. You get some bacteria or virus in there, and the jaw, spine, etc gets all screwed up as a result. A person could get the symptoms treated all day long and still have recurring problems due to internal microorganisms. That is fascinating.
deejavu
11-30-2005, 10:57 AM
Hi all,
Raylp posted on the Lyme Site and told me that he posted here about Lyme Disease. I have chronic Lyme Disease and it took 5 years just to get diagnosed.
Some interesting facts: Lyme is the 2nd fastest growing infectious disease in the U.S after the AIDS Virus (though some say it's getting bigger than AIDS).
The worse labs to get tested are Labcorp and Quest because they do NOT use 100% Lyme Antigens, the best Lab is called IgeneX Labs located in Palo Alto, CA, they have their own website. IgeneX uses 100% pure lyme antigens compared to the other labs I mentioned.
The Elisa Test and urine tests are the most unreliable of all tests.
The Western Blot is the most accurate of all tests and even that is not 100% accurate.
Over 200 strains of the Bb (Borrelia burgdorferi) Lyme bacteria are continually being identified. This is a international issue, just not the U.S.
Ticks are also spread by migratory birds, Mosquito's carry the lyme bacteria as well as fleas.
Some reasons why a test can come back negative in a Lyme infected patient:
The sample was taken too soon after infection for your immune system to have mounted a defense.
You are producing a detectable level of antibodies, but the lab made a mistake (very common).
You are producing antibodies to a strain of Borrelia burgdorfiri (Lyme) that the lab cannot detect (there are over 200 strains in the US alone).
You are producing antibodies, but they are bound to they Lyme bacteria (called a complexed antibody) without enough free-floating antibodies in the bloodsteam to be detectable.
Your immune system is compromised and not responding properly.
By taking antibiotics early in the disease, the immune response may have been aborted.
The bacterium has changed its makeup and the immune system hasn't noticed it.
More than 50% of Lyme patients never develop the bullseye rash (called an erythema migrans) and many never even recall a tick bite. Also, the erythema migrans often take on a different shape or form than the "bullseye" and could easily be mistaken for a bruise, ringworm, spot, etc. An erythema migrans, regardless of its form or shape, is a definite indicator of Lyme disease. Unfortunately, many doctors are not trained to identify them.
Ticks carry several other co-infections in addition to Lyme disease. Many people with Lyme are also infected with one or more co-infections. These include Babesiosis, Erlichiosis (there are two types), mycoplasma, bartonella, and more. It is important to be tested and treated for co-infections.
Again, many physicians are not sufficiently knowledgeable about these diseases and many infectious disease doctors are not much better.
200 mgs. of doxy per day is not enough. It is not sufficient for Lyme and if you are co-infected it will not treat that. Many doctors are not knowlegeable and undertreat or treat with outdated protocols.
It is possible to have Lyme in the body for some time and a very stressful life situation can bring out the bacterias and symptoms, like a divorce, any type of trauma, etc.
I hope that helps,
Denise
Raylp posted on the Lyme Site and told me that he posted here about Lyme Disease. I have chronic Lyme Disease and it took 5 years just to get diagnosed.
Some interesting facts: Lyme is the 2nd fastest growing infectious disease in the U.S after the AIDS Virus (though some say it's getting bigger than AIDS).
The worse labs to get tested are Labcorp and Quest because they do NOT use 100% Lyme Antigens, the best Lab is called IgeneX Labs located in Palo Alto, CA, they have their own website. IgeneX uses 100% pure lyme antigens compared to the other labs I mentioned.
The Elisa Test and urine tests are the most unreliable of all tests.
The Western Blot is the most accurate of all tests and even that is not 100% accurate.
Over 200 strains of the Bb (Borrelia burgdorferi) Lyme bacteria are continually being identified. This is a international issue, just not the U.S.
Ticks are also spread by migratory birds, Mosquito's carry the lyme bacteria as well as fleas.
Some reasons why a test can come back negative in a Lyme infected patient:
The sample was taken too soon after infection for your immune system to have mounted a defense.
You are producing a detectable level of antibodies, but the lab made a mistake (very common).
You are producing antibodies to a strain of Borrelia burgdorfiri (Lyme) that the lab cannot detect (there are over 200 strains in the US alone).
You are producing antibodies, but they are bound to they Lyme bacteria (called a complexed antibody) without enough free-floating antibodies in the bloodsteam to be detectable.
Your immune system is compromised and not responding properly.
By taking antibiotics early in the disease, the immune response may have been aborted.
The bacterium has changed its makeup and the immune system hasn't noticed it.
More than 50% of Lyme patients never develop the bullseye rash (called an erythema migrans) and many never even recall a tick bite. Also, the erythema migrans often take on a different shape or form than the "bullseye" and could easily be mistaken for a bruise, ringworm, spot, etc. An erythema migrans, regardless of its form or shape, is a definite indicator of Lyme disease. Unfortunately, many doctors are not trained to identify them.
Ticks carry several other co-infections in addition to Lyme disease. Many people with Lyme are also infected with one or more co-infections. These include Babesiosis, Erlichiosis (there are two types), mycoplasma, bartonella, and more. It is important to be tested and treated for co-infections.
Again, many physicians are not sufficiently knowledgeable about these diseases and many infectious disease doctors are not much better.
200 mgs. of doxy per day is not enough. It is not sufficient for Lyme and if you are co-infected it will not treat that. Many doctors are not knowlegeable and undertreat or treat with outdated protocols.
It is possible to have Lyme in the body for some time and a very stressful life situation can bring out the bacterias and symptoms, like a divorce, any type of trauma, etc.
I hope that helps,
Denise
CherylLynn24
12-04-2005, 03:21 PM
Denise,
Thank you for taking the time to post your very informative post. :)
Thank you for taking the time to post your very informative post. :)
deejavu
12-04-2005, 05:07 PM
Hi Cheryl,
You are truely welcome. I am not saying that anyone who suffers from TMJ has Lyme Disease, but it's good to rule it out by a reputable lab.
The good news is that if someone does have Lyme, it can be cured. I know several people that are Lyme-free today and hopefully, I am getting there too!
Hope everyone is having a great Sunday!
Denise
You are truely welcome. I am not saying that anyone who suffers from TMJ has Lyme Disease, but it's good to rule it out by a reputable lab.
The good news is that if someone does have Lyme, it can be cured. I know several people that are Lyme-free today and hopefully, I am getting there too!
Hope everyone is having a great Sunday!
Denise
jojo
08-26-2006, 10:06 AM
posted wrong place...sorry....