une_fille
11-09-2005, 12:49 PM
Just saw my TMJ doc and it looks like I'm wearing through my tissue. Since my disc is dislocated we were hoping the tissue would form a pseudo disc, but it doesn't look like that's happening because my back teeth are touching my splint now which means they've shifted due to wearing through the tissue. He's still surprised that I don't experience any pain, just stiffness and soreness. He told me that I will be in pain in less than 5 years, though. So he's sending me to an OS in Tampa (I'm in Atlanta) to go talk to him and see what he says. He definitely wants me to hold off on the surgery until I do feel pain, but that I should still go and talk to the surgeon. If I could just figure out how to stop grinding my teeth at night I could potentially hold off the surgery...I'm doing PT right now, but it's not helping. Maybe I should try biofeedback? Acupuncutre? Ugh.
Sponsor
Michelle W
11-10-2005, 01:22 AM
I vote for taking pain medication until you can't handle it anymore. OS will try to talk you into surgery, because they want your money. I had surgery and I am still in pain-more pain. I would just keep wearing your splint at night. Stick around and read the board some you may decided against the surgery.
une_fille
11-10-2005, 12:14 PM
Yes, you are right I know. I guess I will cross that road when I get there. I don't really see how surgery will help me really since I will still be grinding my teeth at night even after the surgery. I'm still doing PT and I'm going to try acupunture. Then after that...I dunno...
Michelle W
11-11-2005, 09:53 PM
A lot of people find trigger point injections helpful along with such things as massage therapy. Many members heat up this item called a bed buddy in the microwave and sleep with it for relief.
I would try everything I could before I decided to go down the surgery path. I was always a strong supporter of surgery, because I had always had such good luck with it in the past. When my dentist told me I needed surgery to put my disc back in place I didn't give it another thought because he was my doctor. I didn't realize it was so controversial.
Keep asking questions and looking for answers!
I would try everything I could before I decided to go down the surgery path. I was always a strong supporter of surgery, because I had always had such good luck with it in the past. When my dentist told me I needed surgery to put my disc back in place I didn't give it another thought because he was my doctor. I didn't realize it was so controversial.
Keep asking questions and looking for answers!
VA-GAL
11-15-2005, 09:43 AM
I agree with everything Michelle said. I thought surgery had to be the answer too because I had had surgery in the past on other areas of my body that worked great. I had no idea the TMJ was a special joint that was difficult to operate on and success was not routine. I had not done my research. I did not know I needed to do research. It was not until after repeated failed surgeries that I started looking for reasons why this was happening. It was too late for me, but you can still avoid this route. Do everything else first. Surgery should ALWAYS be the very last resort and only if things are very dire. I would not have surgery for a displaced disc. Oh, I wish I had known.
Va=gal
Va=gal
une_fille
11-17-2005, 02:26 PM
My muscles have been bracing so often during the day now that it's beginning to give me pain and headaches. My PT said I should move my jaw as much as possible (slight bilateral wiggles and opening and closing my mouth rapidly) to prevent them from bracing. He said my joint mobility is fine and the fact that I don't have pain when I eat foods other than crunchy ones indicates that my joint is not inflammed. So it's becoming clear to us that what's going on with me is that my dislocated disc is causing my muscles to spasm which in turn is aggravating the joint. Then bruxing on top of all that at night. So it's a chicken-and-the-egg kind of situation. Treat the joint problem or treat the muscle problem caused by the joint which would mean treating the joint? And the only way to do that is surgery. Which I'm just so opposed to based on what everyone here has said.
Anyway, I've ordered this CD from Amazon which is supposed to put you in a semi-hypnotic state before you fall asleep to help stop bruxing. Could be total rubbish, but at this point I'll try almost anything. I'm even looking into past-life regression analysis! Sheesh!!
Anyway, I've ordered this CD from Amazon which is supposed to put you in a semi-hypnotic state before you fall asleep to help stop bruxing. Could be total rubbish, but at this point I'll try almost anything. I'm even looking into past-life regression analysis! Sheesh!!
threethings
11-17-2005, 09:08 PM
interesting. i had my disc sewn back into place a long time ago. i had one of the best doctors though and i felt 100% better within 2 weeks. it was amazing. the most important part was the therapy after the surgery. i had to wear a helmet type thing that had pieces going into my mouth to keep my jaw opening and shutting all day long. i would do it again if i had to. only downside is....i clench my jaw so bad that now the other side is messed up! :) i have two bite guards. the other thing i have say though is that i was in terrible pain when the jaw dislocated from the disc falling out of place. surgery really was my only option.
Michelle W
11-18-2005, 05:05 AM
That is so strange, because now they get you to start PT with a therabite asasp. They are afraid of adhesions, so they want to ge you opening and closing soon after surgery.
Shirlett
11-23-2005, 08:51 PM
Let me know if that CD works!
Surgery SHOULD ALWAYS be your last option BUT when you ae dealing with a disc I urge you to make some kind of decision on treatment. Once my left disc became displaced I went over a year without proper treatment and by time I got to a "Good" Oral Surgeon I had lost my left jaw joint.
I feel for you because I was in that pain in the very beginning and it almost drove me crazy.
Just look at the whole picture BEFORE you decide to have surgery. Once you have surgery there is no going back.
I hope everything works out for you.
Shirlett
Surgery SHOULD ALWAYS be your last option BUT when you ae dealing with a disc I urge you to make some kind of decision on treatment. Once my left disc became displaced I went over a year without proper treatment and by time I got to a "Good" Oral Surgeon I had lost my left jaw joint.
I feel for you because I was in that pain in the very beginning and it almost drove me crazy.
Just look at the whole picture BEFORE you decide to have surgery. Once you have surgery there is no going back.
I hope everything works out for you.
Shirlett
une_fille
11-24-2005, 09:45 AM
Hi Shirlett-
Well, I tried the cd twice but I fell asleep both times- haha! You're not supposed to fall asleep, you're just supposed to use it before going to sleep. It relaxes me so much I just zonk out! But, it hasn't helped my grinding at all.
Thank you for stressing the urgency of the situation for me- my husband doesn't really seem to get why I'm trying all these different things so quickly. I'm so glad you understand!! I've tried the cd, acupunture (didn't help), and now I'm on a new medication - Klonopin. I really hope that helps. I need to give it a few weeks to try. The Elavil didn't work at all. If the Klonopin doesn't work, there is one other drug my dr said we could try (I forgot the name of it). Anyway, my husband just thinks I'm wasting my money on all these different things, but in my view if I can find something to prevent me from having surgery I don't care how much I spend. My PT is at a roadblock with me. Yesterday he said with splint therapy and physical therpay, 80-90% of patients with nighttime bruxing show significant improvement in 4-6 weeks. I'm now approaching the 4-week mark. He made some changes in my exercises and now I am happily no longer experiencing the pain during the day (I can't believe it!). However, the problem is, it's not at all helping me at night. We discussed stress at great length and when I was disputing that I didn't think it was environmental factors as he was suggesting that were causing me stress, he went and typed in "stress" in a search engine on the computer in his office and was reading me the printouts while I was doing my exercises. We both discovered some very interesting things. While he was reading the different categories of stress, I stopped him at "chronic stress" and asked him to read the section. It talked about how childhood emotional traumas can shape ones personality and outlook in life (which everyone knows), and how that person eventually gets used to this stress mentally, though it takes it's toll on the body physically (which I didn't really know you could get "used" to a trauma). I told him that was very interesting and when he asked me if I'd had a childhood trauma (now he was playing psychologist), I told him growing up with Eastern European parents was not easy...we were both shocked when he kept reading to learn that people of Northern Ireland, Eastern Europe and the Middle East are basically big balls of stress (which makes sense with politcal unrest and feelings of hopelessness). Well, anyway, the point is, my grinding seems to be the result of some seriously deep-seeded issues that I have been tucking away for the last 29 years. So, I know you're going to laugh, but I'm going to see a shaman/cellular memory healer to see if I can get rid of these negative energy blocks. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try to find a hypnotist. I don't think a psychoanalyst would be helpful to me...I know what the problem is now, but I can't get rid of it myself. In the meantime, hopefully the Klonopin will provide me with temporary relief. I don't want to be on meds for long-term for this but if I can just stop grinding temporarily then I can give my tissue a chance to heal.
Whew! Sorry this was so long. Thanks for listening to me. You are all my psychologists, too :)
Well, I tried the cd twice but I fell asleep both times- haha! You're not supposed to fall asleep, you're just supposed to use it before going to sleep. It relaxes me so much I just zonk out! But, it hasn't helped my grinding at all.
Thank you for stressing the urgency of the situation for me- my husband doesn't really seem to get why I'm trying all these different things so quickly. I'm so glad you understand!! I've tried the cd, acupunture (didn't help), and now I'm on a new medication - Klonopin. I really hope that helps. I need to give it a few weeks to try. The Elavil didn't work at all. If the Klonopin doesn't work, there is one other drug my dr said we could try (I forgot the name of it). Anyway, my husband just thinks I'm wasting my money on all these different things, but in my view if I can find something to prevent me from having surgery I don't care how much I spend. My PT is at a roadblock with me. Yesterday he said with splint therapy and physical therpay, 80-90% of patients with nighttime bruxing show significant improvement in 4-6 weeks. I'm now approaching the 4-week mark. He made some changes in my exercises and now I am happily no longer experiencing the pain during the day (I can't believe it!). However, the problem is, it's not at all helping me at night. We discussed stress at great length and when I was disputing that I didn't think it was environmental factors as he was suggesting that were causing me stress, he went and typed in "stress" in a search engine on the computer in his office and was reading me the printouts while I was doing my exercises. We both discovered some very interesting things. While he was reading the different categories of stress, I stopped him at "chronic stress" and asked him to read the section. It talked about how childhood emotional traumas can shape ones personality and outlook in life (which everyone knows), and how that person eventually gets used to this stress mentally, though it takes it's toll on the body physically (which I didn't really know you could get "used" to a trauma). I told him that was very interesting and when he asked me if I'd had a childhood trauma (now he was playing psychologist), I told him growing up with Eastern European parents was not easy...we were both shocked when he kept reading to learn that people of Northern Ireland, Eastern Europe and the Middle East are basically big balls of stress (which makes sense with politcal unrest and feelings of hopelessness). Well, anyway, the point is, my grinding seems to be the result of some seriously deep-seeded issues that I have been tucking away for the last 29 years. So, I know you're going to laugh, but I'm going to see a shaman/cellular memory healer to see if I can get rid of these negative energy blocks. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try to find a hypnotist. I don't think a psychoanalyst would be helpful to me...I know what the problem is now, but I can't get rid of it myself. In the meantime, hopefully the Klonopin will provide me with temporary relief. I don't want to be on meds for long-term for this but if I can just stop grinding temporarily then I can give my tissue a chance to heal.
Whew! Sorry this was so long. Thanks for listening to me. You are all my psychologists, too :)
Michelle W
11-27-2005, 04:10 PM
Best of luck to you to find whatever works for you.
I wish I had realized sooner that I had tmj and needed help with it. It wasn't until the end (too late)I realized what problems I was having or had. I ended up having surgery, which was not a good decision. I trusted the wrong people, and now I am a mess with more problems.
I wish I had realized sooner that I had tmj and needed help with it. It wasn't until the end (too late)I realized what problems I was having or had. I ended up having surgery, which was not a good decision. I trusted the wrong people, and now I am a mess with more problems.
raylp
11-28-2005, 12:12 AM
I'd love to hear about your experiences with the energetic healers. I can imagine that you could be concerned about trying too many things and spending too much money. But then again, it's your journey. Trust yourself. Maybe you are getting closer to understanding your body and your health.
When I read your last post, I thought of Barbara Brennan's program. She trains people how to work with energetic imbalances. I haven't had much experience with it though.
Overall, I want to applaud you for working to correct or reduce the nightime clenching. Something is causing it. That seems like you are getting to the real issue. Good work.
When I read your last post, I thought of Barbara Brennan's program. She trains people how to work with energetic imbalances. I haven't had much experience with it though.
Overall, I want to applaud you for working to correct or reduce the nightime clenching. Something is causing it. That seems like you are getting to the real issue. Good work.
une_fille
11-28-2005, 09:02 PM
Thank you, everyone, for your kind words and support. It really means a lot to me!
ralyp- I'll let you know how it goes with the shaman. I'm going in a few weeks- Dec 16. I'm not familiar with Barbara Brennan, but I'll be sure to research her on the web. Thank you for your encouragement on my trek to stop the bruxing!
ralyp- I'll let you know how it goes with the shaman. I'm going in a few weeks- Dec 16. I'm not familiar with Barbara Brennan, but I'll be sure to research her on the web. Thank you for your encouragement on my trek to stop the bruxing!
Angie91878
12-03-2005, 07:44 PM
Hi "Une Fille" (don't know your name!)
Please don't get surgery. I've heard such ridiculously bad stories.
I'm 27 and I have TMJ. I've tried so many things and spent so much money. Nothing has really helped, so I'm still searching.
I have recently come across a book called "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross. She mentions something about TMJ and how low serotonin levels are closely related to it. She says you can expect good or complete relief within a few weeks by raising your serotonin levels naturally, and with nutrient therapy. She talks about all this in her book, but the main serotonin booster is 5-HTP.
I'm considering going to see a nutritionist or someone who is knowledgeable about this subject so I can get the right treatment. It sounds very promising.
I really think TMJ is a stress/anger/fear related issue. I've noticed improvements in myself when I started eating healthier and when I started practicing my own version of yoga poses. At night, I usually do light stretches and it feels wonderful. When I wake up in the morning, I don't get the headaches I used to get!
I really hope this is helpful!
All the best,
Angela
Please don't get surgery. I've heard such ridiculously bad stories.
I'm 27 and I have TMJ. I've tried so many things and spent so much money. Nothing has really helped, so I'm still searching.
I have recently come across a book called "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross. She mentions something about TMJ and how low serotonin levels are closely related to it. She says you can expect good or complete relief within a few weeks by raising your serotonin levels naturally, and with nutrient therapy. She talks about all this in her book, but the main serotonin booster is 5-HTP.
I'm considering going to see a nutritionist or someone who is knowledgeable about this subject so I can get the right treatment. It sounds very promising.
I really think TMJ is a stress/anger/fear related issue. I've noticed improvements in myself when I started eating healthier and when I started practicing my own version of yoga poses. At night, I usually do light stretches and it feels wonderful. When I wake up in the morning, I don't get the headaches I used to get!
I really hope this is helpful!
All the best,
Angela
CherylLynn24
12-04-2005, 03:33 PM
I really think TMJ is a stress/anger/fear related issue.
I beg to differ. My Son has been a sufferer of this dreaded disorder for 3 years now. Prior to coming down with his symptoms, he was one of the happiest, laid-back kids that I know. I did consult several doctors for their opinions on his stress/anxiety levels and were told that his problems with TMJD were NOT the result of stress, anxiety, depression or any other mental health-related disorders. His problems developed due to poor dental work.
Reading the stories on this board lead me to believe that many others are also here due to shoddy dental work, and not due to mental health problems. Anxiety and stress seem to affect many after suffering long-term pain. Can stress contribute to an already existing problem? You bet it can.......and does. But as being the sole cause of this particular problem? Not a chance.
I beg to differ. My Son has been a sufferer of this dreaded disorder for 3 years now. Prior to coming down with his symptoms, he was one of the happiest, laid-back kids that I know. I did consult several doctors for their opinions on his stress/anxiety levels and were told that his problems with TMJD were NOT the result of stress, anxiety, depression or any other mental health-related disorders. His problems developed due to poor dental work.
Reading the stories on this board lead me to believe that many others are also here due to shoddy dental work, and not due to mental health problems. Anxiety and stress seem to affect many after suffering long-term pain. Can stress contribute to an already existing problem? You bet it can.......and does. But as being the sole cause of this particular problem? Not a chance.
Michelle W
12-05-2005, 10:45 AM
I don't either agree that TMJ is a mental disorder, so I hope you don't begin to analyze yourself. I went through this period where I thought TMJ was my fault and blamed myself. It isn't your fault you have TMJ so don't go there. I have been there, and it doesn't help anyone.
My OS tried to pull that mental crap on me after his surgery didn't work. I wanted to ask him why he operated on me if I was such a basket case and knew it wouldn't work.
I spent a lot of money taking Food for Life/Garden of Life supplements, which he recommended such as 5 HTP and an expensive Food for Life/Garden for Life anti-inflamatory. I couldn't afford them; the anti-inflamatory was $80.00 a bottle. I took it and nothing happened.
I am not saying supplements are not helpful, but I really don't think they will cure TMJ. I have tried everything and nothing really has helped me that much. I have tried surgery, grind-alert, supplements, tons or books, been to mayo clinic in MN, braces and etc.
I am going to try accupuncture here soon as I have had several people recommend it. The last doctor I talked to told me it works in about 1 out of 10 people to releave symptoms-not cure.
Am I saying don't do this or try that idea? No, I am not saying don't keep looking for answers. I am saying don't spend your grocery money on supplements like I did. Don't believe anyone that tells you tmj is a mental disorder, because it isn't and you didn't bring it on yourself at all!
Best wishes,
Michelle
My OS tried to pull that mental crap on me after his surgery didn't work. I wanted to ask him why he operated on me if I was such a basket case and knew it wouldn't work.
I spent a lot of money taking Food for Life/Garden of Life supplements, which he recommended such as 5 HTP and an expensive Food for Life/Garden for Life anti-inflamatory. I couldn't afford them; the anti-inflamatory was $80.00 a bottle. I took it and nothing happened.
I am not saying supplements are not helpful, but I really don't think they will cure TMJ. I have tried everything and nothing really has helped me that much. I have tried surgery, grind-alert, supplements, tons or books, been to mayo clinic in MN, braces and etc.
I am going to try accupuncture here soon as I have had several people recommend it. The last doctor I talked to told me it works in about 1 out of 10 people to releave symptoms-not cure.
Am I saying don't do this or try that idea? No, I am not saying don't keep looking for answers. I am saying don't spend your grocery money on supplements like I did. Don't believe anyone that tells you tmj is a mental disorder, because it isn't and you didn't bring it on yourself at all!
Best wishes,
Michelle
Shirlett
12-05-2005, 11:11 PM
Put me in that boat. Tmj is not something you can "catch" or "bring upon yourself." I do not like the word "Disorder" that is now being attached to the end of TMJ but what we have is real and if it was as simple as
Quote: posted by Angie91878:
"She says you can expect good or complete relief within a few weeks by raising your serotonin levels naturally, and with nutrient therapy. She talks about all this in her book, but the main serotonin booster is 5-HTP."
than I do think most of us would not be where we are. I am with MichelleW on do what YOU feel YOU need to do to help yourself but do NOT stray away from proper care. I have $300.00 worth of supplements under my bed right now. They did nothing for me but tear up my stomach. I am Apache and I see a Healer twice a month. No they can not heal my TMJ but they help me relax so I can focus on healing what I can of my body. I attend a sweat lodge once a month to clense my body of the "prescription medication" I dump in it. that is my issue. I hated having ot take all those pills but at the time I needed them to try and control the pain.
Before the TMJ took over my life, my husbands and childrens lives, I had days when I thought I might be crazy but then I learned it was just the pain. Some might disagree (and that is Okay! :) ) but I feel there is NOTHING worse than trying to deal with pain in your head. Yes it is your jaw(s) but it is still affecting your head and that can cause you to not think as clear and begin to doubt yourself. You should know by reading and being a part of this group that you are not crazy and this is not a "mental issue" or we would ALL be locked up. I hope together! :wave:
When it is time for you and your husband (family) to make a decision about what route YOU are going to take, you will be ready. Try what YOU think might help YOU. And if it does not work then you know and the "what if's" will not set in because you already tried it.
It took my husbad almost four year to really comprehend just what I was living in everyday. When they can not see it or feel it they can not understand it. He had a bad tooth and had to have surgery..he thought he was going to die before he got to the oral surgeons office...I was like yeah...okay..welcome to my world of non-stop throbbing, knee buckeling pain...you will live...when it was all over he told me he respected me more because he did not see how I could live with pain like that everyday without any relief. But we do. And we keep going.
Hang in there.
Shirlett
Quote: posted by Angie91878:
"She says you can expect good or complete relief within a few weeks by raising your serotonin levels naturally, and with nutrient therapy. She talks about all this in her book, but the main serotonin booster is 5-HTP."
than I do think most of us would not be where we are. I am with MichelleW on do what YOU feel YOU need to do to help yourself but do NOT stray away from proper care. I have $300.00 worth of supplements under my bed right now. They did nothing for me but tear up my stomach. I am Apache and I see a Healer twice a month. No they can not heal my TMJ but they help me relax so I can focus on healing what I can of my body. I attend a sweat lodge once a month to clense my body of the "prescription medication" I dump in it. that is my issue. I hated having ot take all those pills but at the time I needed them to try and control the pain.
Before the TMJ took over my life, my husbands and childrens lives, I had days when I thought I might be crazy but then I learned it was just the pain. Some might disagree (and that is Okay! :) ) but I feel there is NOTHING worse than trying to deal with pain in your head. Yes it is your jaw(s) but it is still affecting your head and that can cause you to not think as clear and begin to doubt yourself. You should know by reading and being a part of this group that you are not crazy and this is not a "mental issue" or we would ALL be locked up. I hope together! :wave:
When it is time for you and your husband (family) to make a decision about what route YOU are going to take, you will be ready. Try what YOU think might help YOU. And if it does not work then you know and the "what if's" will not set in because you already tried it.
It took my husbad almost four year to really comprehend just what I was living in everyday. When they can not see it or feel it they can not understand it. He had a bad tooth and had to have surgery..he thought he was going to die before he got to the oral surgeons office...I was like yeah...okay..welcome to my world of non-stop throbbing, knee buckeling pain...you will live...when it was all over he told me he respected me more because he did not see how I could live with pain like that everyday without any relief. But we do. And we keep going.
Hang in there.
Shirlett
Killian
12-06-2005, 05:20 AM
Dear Une_fille,
Your situation sounds similar to the one my fiancee faced, in that nighttime bruxing was the central factor in the cause of her TMJ. Like most sufferers, she was handed the usual kit of nightguards and splints; these were effortlessly crushed and cracked through with the force of her nighttime chewing. Her dentist, a simpleton more interested in preserving the condition of her teeth than her jaw, proceeded to dispense larger and larger splints, glorified tooth protectors, which only exacerbated the problem, and never seemed to me to truly address the heart of the condition.
Have you tried night-time biofeedback? There are products out there consisting of nightguards equipped with pressure detection systems; they monitor teeth contact force above a given threshold, and sound an alarm whenever the jaw clenches. The idea is that at first, one is rudely awakened at every attempted bruxing episode, but as time goes on, the body learns to automatically and unconsciously stop biting in response to the unwanted stimulus.
We tried this type of biofeedback unit, and for the first while it worked like a miracle. Her jaw relaxed, stopped locking, the clicking and popping dissapeared. We believed we had found the answer. Gradually, however, she became more accustomed to the alarm sound, and eventually learned even to *ignore* it, clenching her way through the sound. Indeed, the nightguard eventually *stimulated* bruxing, becoming a chew toy. I would sometimes wake up at night: her jaw thrashing in full force, the alarm beeping and wailing away to no avail; she asleep, violently asleep, and blissfully and cruelly unaware of the mountainous damage she was wreaking upon herself. TMJ symptoms began to haunt her once more.
It was then that I realised that the device would have to be augmented --- by an outside, human intervention --- namely, myself. You see, when I realised she had learned to ignore the biofeedback alarm system, I decided to become the biofeedback system myself. Namely, I would stay up all night, and monitor her. Since I was not asleep, I could hear the alarm, and thus could detect whenever she clenced. However, *my* intervention --- forcibly waking her up, with any and all means --- could not fail, where the simple alarm did. And there was no amount of learning her body could do to accustom itself to *human* biofeedback. Thus I had designed an infallible bruxing detection and prevention mechanism. Naturally this required that I became a night-time worker --- my schedule turned 180 degrees, and I worked at night beside the bed, sleeping into the afternoon each day --- something perhaps not available to every person. However, the stunning advances in TMJ improvement that she made since we implemented this methodology --- she currently experiences almost no symptoms --- have been well worth the relatively small sacrifice. Morever, as time goes on, I need to monitor her less and less, since her body, under a relentless barrage of negative stimuli, has finally learned to alter its bruxing behaviour.
So, in this one experiment, the moral learned: biofeedback works, but *only* dynamic biofeedback, i.e. feedback that grows in proportion to the constantly changing comfort level of the patient.
Your situation sounds similar to the one my fiancee faced, in that nighttime bruxing was the central factor in the cause of her TMJ. Like most sufferers, she was handed the usual kit of nightguards and splints; these were effortlessly crushed and cracked through with the force of her nighttime chewing. Her dentist, a simpleton more interested in preserving the condition of her teeth than her jaw, proceeded to dispense larger and larger splints, glorified tooth protectors, which only exacerbated the problem, and never seemed to me to truly address the heart of the condition.
Have you tried night-time biofeedback? There are products out there consisting of nightguards equipped with pressure detection systems; they monitor teeth contact force above a given threshold, and sound an alarm whenever the jaw clenches. The idea is that at first, one is rudely awakened at every attempted bruxing episode, but as time goes on, the body learns to automatically and unconsciously stop biting in response to the unwanted stimulus.
We tried this type of biofeedback unit, and for the first while it worked like a miracle. Her jaw relaxed, stopped locking, the clicking and popping dissapeared. We believed we had found the answer. Gradually, however, she became more accustomed to the alarm sound, and eventually learned even to *ignore* it, clenching her way through the sound. Indeed, the nightguard eventually *stimulated* bruxing, becoming a chew toy. I would sometimes wake up at night: her jaw thrashing in full force, the alarm beeping and wailing away to no avail; she asleep, violently asleep, and blissfully and cruelly unaware of the mountainous damage she was wreaking upon herself. TMJ symptoms began to haunt her once more.
It was then that I realised that the device would have to be augmented --- by an outside, human intervention --- namely, myself. You see, when I realised she had learned to ignore the biofeedback alarm system, I decided to become the biofeedback system myself. Namely, I would stay up all night, and monitor her. Since I was not asleep, I could hear the alarm, and thus could detect whenever she clenced. However, *my* intervention --- forcibly waking her up, with any and all means --- could not fail, where the simple alarm did. And there was no amount of learning her body could do to accustom itself to *human* biofeedback. Thus I had designed an infallible bruxing detection and prevention mechanism. Naturally this required that I became a night-time worker --- my schedule turned 180 degrees, and I worked at night beside the bed, sleeping into the afternoon each day --- something perhaps not available to every person. However, the stunning advances in TMJ improvement that she made since we implemented this methodology --- she currently experiences almost no symptoms --- have been well worth the relatively small sacrifice. Morever, as time goes on, I need to monitor her less and less, since her body, under a relentless barrage of negative stimuli, has finally learned to alter its bruxing behaviour.
So, in this one experiment, the moral learned: biofeedback works, but *only* dynamic biofeedback, i.e. feedback that grows in proportion to the constantly changing comfort level of the patient.
une_fille
12-06-2005, 10:37 AM
I honestly feel that TMJ (more specifically, nighttime bruxing which is causing my TMJ) is triggered by different things for different people. It can be stress, poor dental work, etc, etc. For one person it might be because they had braces (which is technically a trauma to the jaw) while for another person it might be because of an unresolved childhood trauma. Different solutions will work for differnt folks. My nighttime bruxing has not ceased despite the number of things I've tried: acupuncutre, yoga (which I've been doing for years and years), occlusal adjustment, medication (elavil, flexoril, valium, robaxin, xanax, klonopin, various herbal remedies), various splints, physical therapy. I'm just saying I'm at my wits end and since I've been willing to explore the medical aspects (except surgery), why not try the psychological aspects? I really have nothing to lose except a few bucks. If I've invested so much money in the medical side of things, I feel justified in spending money in the phsychological side of things. I'm not saying TMJ is a mental disorder at all, but what is causing my personal TMJ might be the result of some deep issue that I'm not dealing with which is causing me to grind my teeth which is causing my TMJ. Then again, it might not be. I'm open to all possibilities. I was going to see a shaman/spritual healer, but I've decided to see a hypnotherapist instead. I'm going in January.
Killian- I have looked into biofeedback that you talked about and I had the same fears- that I would just get used to the alarm. I can't believe you were persistent enough to help your wife through that! I can't see my husband losing sleep to help me out like that!!
Shirlett- you are completely right about the pain "driving you crazy". Right now, through PT, my pain is minimal so I am able to focus on the root of my problem instead of learning how to deal with pain. I agree that focusing on the root of the problem is difficult when you have relentless pain. You just want to stop the pain.
Everyone, please, please don't knock each other's theories in what might be causing each one's TMJ problems. They are so different and so personal. Let's just listen to each other and give each other support and hope that whatever we try will work. It is good to have healthy discussions and to openly disagree in order to educate ourselves, but let's keep in mind that what works for one person might not work for another and vice versa.
~Joanne
Killian- I have looked into biofeedback that you talked about and I had the same fears- that I would just get used to the alarm. I can't believe you were persistent enough to help your wife through that! I can't see my husband losing sleep to help me out like that!!
Shirlett- you are completely right about the pain "driving you crazy". Right now, through PT, my pain is minimal so I am able to focus on the root of my problem instead of learning how to deal with pain. I agree that focusing on the root of the problem is difficult when you have relentless pain. You just want to stop the pain.
Everyone, please, please don't knock each other's theories in what might be causing each one's TMJ problems. They are so different and so personal. Let's just listen to each other and give each other support and hope that whatever we try will work. It is good to have healthy discussions and to openly disagree in order to educate ourselves, but let's keep in mind that what works for one person might not work for another and vice versa.
~Joanne
Marylander
12-06-2005, 12:43 PM
If I can add my two cents' worth of agreement with Michelle: definitely explore alternative therapies that appeal to you, understand that some of them may not work (I have a whole collection of pillows that were supposed to help neck pain and only made it worse, I tried a subliminal CD, and so on), but don't let a professional try to tell you that TMJ is "all in your head" or that it is your fault. I went through that, very painfully, this summer, with a dentist who claimed to be able to fix my bite after splint therapy. The problem was, he didn't try to fix it to match the splint, he tried to adjust it to his idea of idea of an ideal bite. As my pain grew steadily worse, it suddenly became my fault: HE had created an ideal occlusion for me and if I was in pain, it was because I was clenching and grinding my teeth all day and all night. I finally wised up and ran away. The dentist I am working with now has made major changes (in the dental world, major changes are just a few microns we all know) to my bite because this other man messed it up so badly. This dentist lets me see the blue marks he is going to adjust in the mirror before he does anything, and he pats me on the shoulder and says: see, right where you said it hurt, you are NOT crazy.
newjerseyguy
12-06-2005, 12:44 PM
Everyone here has a good point. My feeling, through constant personal experience is that TMJ problems are driven by many factors. I think physical and emotional stresses contiributed to the TMJ pain. Whatever caused it, the end result is pain brought on by some mechanical malfunction, such as clenching, muscle spasms, poor bite, teeth issues. We are all in the same boat to some degee. We all have pain and we all are looking for relief. I think the biggest thing we have in common is that we don't have to explain to each other how stressful it all can be, and in that sense it is somewhat comforting. My 2 cents-I am pursuing a neuromuscular dentist. i have been reading alot about the subject and they seem to be expereinced in all the aspects of TMJ related problems, including muscle ands body alignment problems. I suggest going to a website that lists neuromuscular dentists in your area and at least read what they have to say. You never know if something might make sense to you.
Angie91878
12-09-2005, 07:43 PM
I would like to defend what I said.
I NEVER said that TMJ was a mental health disorder. I said that it's a stress/anger/fear related issue. Stress, anger, and fear are not mental disorders. Hello! They are powerful emotions. I read somewhere that problems with the jaw are related to unexpressed anger.
For me, the TMJ is stress related. When I'm nervous, I clench my teeth. When there is a lot of stress in my life, I grind my teeth more at night.
I have noticed in myself, that my symptoms largely decrease when I'm relaxed and not stressed out about anything.
I had recently discoverd that information about serotonin levels, and I wanted to share it just in case it might be helpful to someone.
I agree that there are many causes to TMJ and it's a very personal issue. Why not share what has helped us as individuals?
I also agree that different things work for different people.
I also want to add that a person can be laid back and happy, yet still have inner stress that they might not know how to express.
One more thing--I don't think it's wise to take $300 worth of supplements, and I never suggested anything like that.
Joanne, I really like everything you had to say in your last post. I agree that we should listen to each other and provide support. I believe that any information is worth looking into.
I just wanted to defend myself, and may I suggest that readers not jump to conclusions, and instead be more open minded about new ideas.
Thank you.
I NEVER said that TMJ was a mental health disorder. I said that it's a stress/anger/fear related issue. Stress, anger, and fear are not mental disorders. Hello! They are powerful emotions. I read somewhere that problems with the jaw are related to unexpressed anger.
For me, the TMJ is stress related. When I'm nervous, I clench my teeth. When there is a lot of stress in my life, I grind my teeth more at night.
I have noticed in myself, that my symptoms largely decrease when I'm relaxed and not stressed out about anything.
I had recently discoverd that information about serotonin levels, and I wanted to share it just in case it might be helpful to someone.
I agree that there are many causes to TMJ and it's a very personal issue. Why not share what has helped us as individuals?
I also agree that different things work for different people.
I also want to add that a person can be laid back and happy, yet still have inner stress that they might not know how to express.
One more thing--I don't think it's wise to take $300 worth of supplements, and I never suggested anything like that.
Joanne, I really like everything you had to say in your last post. I agree that we should listen to each other and provide support. I believe that any information is worth looking into.
I just wanted to defend myself, and may I suggest that readers not jump to conclusions, and instead be more open minded about new ideas.
Thank you.
Cymy Sue
12-10-2005, 10:54 AM
I would like to add some facts I've put together over the past few years from books, handouts from Doctors and my own physicians and surgeons opinions.
First, I want to say everyone's opinion and ideas are important. We all learn as we go through this ailment....... I've had a lot of time to learn.
I was diagnosed in 1977. In 1989 with my first MRI, the cause was determined to be Birth Damage. I've dealt with pain and symptoms most of my life and have known what it was for for 28 years. I've tried just about every treatment known to man. I had numerous surgeries that altered my bone structure, cartilage grafts for deteriorated discs and the last in 1997, was removal of the deteriorated grafts, plus most of the already abnormal joint structure.
As of 3 years ago, when I was 50, I was fitted with a splint that allows the muscles to function for the joints without overworking and I now live without pain and symptoms. I did find Therapeutic Massage to be extremely helpful with muscular problems for the entire upper body.
There are a lot of theories on what causes TMJ and what causes it to be worse or to get better....I've been told it was all in my head more times than I remember.....it was, but it was physical & structural, not emotional.
About ten million Americans suffer symptoms such as headaches, earaches, tenderness of the jaw muscles, or dull, aching facial pain. These sometimes seem to be unrelated. They all suffer from what has come to be known as temporomandibular joint (TMJ) disorders.
These disorders can have a variety of causes and are believed to result when the chewing muscles and jaw joints do not work together correctly.
The cause or causes of "TMJ" are numerous and varied. Most of the causes have created changes in the structural relationship in the joints. These imbalances and misalignments cause stresses on the joint structure and ability to function, leading to disfunction and pain.
TMJ problems can also be totally muscular in origin.
Some Causes of TMJ
Back Problems
Birth Damage
Bruxism
Gender - Hormonal Imbalances
Head Posture/Overall Body Posture
Heredity
Intubation
Ligament Laxity
Malocclusion/ Bite Problems
Orthodontics/Dental Work
Rheumatoid and Osteo-athritis
Stress
Structural Discrepancies
Systemic Disease- Infectious or Inflammatory
Trauma/Injury
Wisdom Teeth Extraction
Stress and tension may awaken an asymptomatic TMJ. It may aggravate or intensify an existing temporomandibular condition. For stress to effect the TM Joints, there must be an underlying physical predisposition for the disorder to cause TMJD. If a patient has healthy dental occlusion, muscle and jaw function, stress would not cause TMJ Dysfunction or symptoms, but would likely produce effects elsewhere in the body.
Stress -
Approximately 80% of people seeking treatment for TMJ are women. Stress has become one of the most widely accepted and most harmful theories for the cause of TMJ Problems. Frequently, TMJ patients are improperly labeled as having a psychological disorder if they do not respond to current treatment. Often patients are blamed or felt to blame themselves for causing and/or maintaining their pain. Without specific answers or credible explanation for their pain, patients will in turn feel self doubt, depression and to some extent shame. Family, friends and professional providers may even chastise the individual for “not showing improvement” adding to the patient feelings of alienation and depression.
Research -
Researchers have also isolated three different genes thought to be responsible for changes in pain threshold. Factors including physical and emotional stress have also been indicated as causes of muscular TMJD. However, it is unknown if these factors cause the disorder or merely make the condition worse.
There is no doubt, stress will cause any health problem to be worse. Relieving stress is a great idea for anyone, whether they are ill or not.
This may help with some of the symptoms of TMJD. For mild cases, it may be a cure. Treatment should be determined after an indepth diagnosis by a professional who is very knowlegable about all types of TMJ problems and the treatment that will be required.
I do not advocate surgery. I had surgeries due to not knowing any better and because I had structural problems. It should always be a last resort.
Cymy Sue
First, I want to say everyone's opinion and ideas are important. We all learn as we go through this ailment....... I've had a lot of time to learn.
I was diagnosed in 1977. In 1989 with my first MRI, the cause was determined to be Birth Damage. I've dealt with pain and symptoms most of my life and have known what it was for for 28 years. I've tried just about every treatment known to man. I had numerous surgeries that altered my bone structure, cartilage grafts for deteriorated discs and the last in 1997, was removal of the deteriorated grafts, plus most of the already abnormal joint structure.
As of 3 years ago, when I was 50, I was fitted with a splint that allows the muscles to function for the joints without overworking and I now live without pain and symptoms. I did find Therapeutic Massage to be extremely helpful with muscular problems for the entire upper body.
There are a lot of theories on what causes TMJ and what causes it to be worse or to get better....I've been told it was all in my head more times than I remember.....it was, but it was physical & structural, not emotional.
About ten million Americans suffer symptoms such as headaches, earaches, tenderness of the jaw muscles, or dull, aching facial pain. These sometimes seem to be unrelated. They all suffer from what has come to be known as temporomandibular joint (TMJ) disorders.
These disorders can have a variety of causes and are believed to result when the chewing muscles and jaw joints do not work together correctly.
The cause or causes of "TMJ" are numerous and varied. Most of the causes have created changes in the structural relationship in the joints. These imbalances and misalignments cause stresses on the joint structure and ability to function, leading to disfunction and pain.
TMJ problems can also be totally muscular in origin.
Some Causes of TMJ
Back Problems
Birth Damage
Bruxism
Gender - Hormonal Imbalances
Head Posture/Overall Body Posture
Heredity
Intubation
Ligament Laxity
Malocclusion/ Bite Problems
Orthodontics/Dental Work
Rheumatoid and Osteo-athritis
Stress
Structural Discrepancies
Systemic Disease- Infectious or Inflammatory
Trauma/Injury
Wisdom Teeth Extraction
Stress and tension may awaken an asymptomatic TMJ. It may aggravate or intensify an existing temporomandibular condition. For stress to effect the TM Joints, there must be an underlying physical predisposition for the disorder to cause TMJD. If a patient has healthy dental occlusion, muscle and jaw function, stress would not cause TMJ Dysfunction or symptoms, but would likely produce effects elsewhere in the body.
Stress -
Approximately 80% of people seeking treatment for TMJ are women. Stress has become one of the most widely accepted and most harmful theories for the cause of TMJ Problems. Frequently, TMJ patients are improperly labeled as having a psychological disorder if they do not respond to current treatment. Often patients are blamed or felt to blame themselves for causing and/or maintaining their pain. Without specific answers or credible explanation for their pain, patients will in turn feel self doubt, depression and to some extent shame. Family, friends and professional providers may even chastise the individual for “not showing improvement” adding to the patient feelings of alienation and depression.
Research -
Researchers have also isolated three different genes thought to be responsible for changes in pain threshold. Factors including physical and emotional stress have also been indicated as causes of muscular TMJD. However, it is unknown if these factors cause the disorder or merely make the condition worse.
There is no doubt, stress will cause any health problem to be worse. Relieving stress is a great idea for anyone, whether they are ill or not.
This may help with some of the symptoms of TMJD. For mild cases, it may be a cure. Treatment should be determined after an indepth diagnosis by a professional who is very knowlegable about all types of TMJ problems and the treatment that will be required.
I do not advocate surgery. I had surgeries due to not knowing any better and because I had structural problems. It should always be a last resort.
Cymy Sue