Hi I wonder if anyone here can give me some advice, we are in the UK.......

My partner has type II diabetes, so do his mom and Dad, so does my dad, my maternal grandmother and my grandad had type I. I had pregnancy induced diabetes twice.

Now for the problem .........

My little boy is 8 years old, he is doing nothing but drink and keeps wanting to wee. I decided to check his blood last night (using my partners monitor, which is v. accurate), he hadn't eaten for ages and was running around like a 'mad un' as usual. his Blood glucose levels were 7.0.

When I checked him again this morning, he had no breakfast as he was more interested in going to his friend's house, I waited until he had beeen up an hour and a half, then checked his blood it was 6.8.

I don't know what to expect with a childs' levels, and wondered if anyone could give me some pointers and maybe put my mind at rest, I've decided to take him to the doc this week, but with our doc yuou have to give 2 weeks notice that you'll be ill to get an appointment :rolleyes:

any advice welcome

jackie

The blood glucose that you gave was on the high end of normal. There are so many factors in a childs blood sugar. My kids graze at times so I think they haven't eaten in forever but in reallity, they are eating all day long. A fasting blood sugar needs to be a controlled test where you know for sure they havent eaten. The best bet is first thing in the morning. Diabetes should slow him down, not rev him up. Insulin allows the sugar to enter the cells which turn it to energy. When blood sugars are high, that sugar cant enter the cell so you feel a severe drop in energy.

It's worth looking into but not something I would pace the floor about. It sounds like he will probably turn out fine. Good luck

For some reason I cannot find the conversion for the numbers you use there and what we use here. I was thinking it was something like 18 to 1. If that is the case, that would put his numbers too high and of concern. But, not knowing the conversion factor I cannot say that.

The drinking a lot is one of the signs you have to watch for. Because it is more complex than just that you should take him to a doctor and get the full panel of blood tests - if the doctor even thinks there may be a problem. The problem here is that if it is type 1 diabetes then it is critical that it be known not. If it is type 2, which is more unlikely, then it is best to know as soon as possible. Type 1 MUST be treated, time is important. If it is just one of those things children go thru - great.

I don't believe in running to the doctor without some reason - With the family history you listed and the drinking (and the blood sugars, I think) you have reason to be concerned. Another thing to consider is that the medical field does say that damage does happen sometimes in the early stages of diabetes - the sooner you rule it out the better for him.

Those Levels are Not considered Extremely High. But are probably worth a closer look.
the levels are consisitant with Pre-Diabetes. Until you see your doctor you can try testing his blood at different times of the day, before and after meals. Anything under 7 Is considered good...for a diabetic....for non Diabetics under 6 is considered good.

I looked up the conversion - it is 18 to 1 from Internation to the US standard. 7.0 relates to 126 US. 6.8 relates to 122. Neither is what it should be. There may be reasons for this that do not stem from diabetes, but you are right to be concerned.

As far as being pre-diabetic. Well, children in the US are becoming diabetic at an alarming rate. It is not out of the picture any more.

Because of the dangers of type 1 you should consider seeing a doctor sooner than later. Doing the diagnosing yourself might be spending too much time on a step that the doctor can do in the first visit. I will say, again, that I am not 'go see a doctor' kind of person - except in a this kind of case. They are the ultimate way to know what is going on here. In the treatment of diabetes they are only one critical part, but the first step, with the patient being a major part of the treatment process. In this case it is the parents that are the controlling force. Children do not treat themselves.

Pipermac

I think you are mixing the A1c numbers with blood sugar standards. The 'normal' range in International numbers would be something like 3.6(65US) to 5.5(99US). But you are correct that the results of 7.0 and 6.8 do fall more in the pre-diabetes range even using International range.

I am booking the appointment tomorrow for him, I am concerned about the levels, especially with the family history in all this. I have to say he is overweight he is 7.5 stone and only 8 years old, but he is v. tall.

I think the family things and the drinking and running for a wee in the night is what set off warning bells with me.

Can you advise me what I am looking at him to be before eating and after eating. I know the doc told Dave (hubby) that it was the levels 2 hours after a meal that we needed to look at.

i just don't know what the difference is with kids to adults etc.

Thanks for all this help, I'm so glad I asked and you didn't make me feel like a neurotic mother.

Jackie x

I looked up the conversion - it is 18 to 1 from Internation to the US standard. 7.0 relates to 126 US. 6.8 relates to 122. Neither is what it should be. There may be reasons for this that do not stem from diabetes, but you are right to be concerned.

As far as being pre-diabetic. Well, children in the US are becoming diabetic at an alarming rate. It is not out of the picture any more.

Because of the dangers of type 1 you should consider seeing a doctor sooner than later. Doing the diagnosing yourself might be spending too much time on a step that the doctor can do in the first visit. I will say, again, that I am not 'go see a doctor' kind of person - except in a this kind of case. They are the ultimate way to know what is going on here. In the treatment of diabetes they are only one critical part, but the first step, with the patient being a major part of the treatment process. In this case it is the parents that are the controlling force. Children do not treat themselves.

Pipermac

I think you are mixing the A1c numbers with blood sugar standards. The 'normal' range in International numbers would be something like 3.6(65US) to 5.5(99US). But you are correct that the results of 7.0 and 6.8 do fall more in the pre-diabetes range even using International range.


Nope..not mixing anything up...a am type 1 and anything under 8 is considered acceptable but the goal is to be under 7. 3.6 would be hypoglycemic. Keep in mind I did say these are good for Diabetics....not non diabetics

I am booking the appointment tomorrow for him, I am concerned about the levels, especially with the family history in all this. I have to say he is overweight he is 7.5 stone and only 8 years old, but he is v. tall.

I think the family things and the drinking and running for a wee in the night is what set off warning bells with me.

Can you advise me what I am looking at him to be before eating and after eating. I know the doc told Dave (hubby) that it was the levels 2 hours after a meal that we needed to look at.

i just don't know what the difference is with kids to adults etc.

Thanks for all this help, I'm so glad I asked and you didn't make me feel like a neurotic mother.

Jackie x


you are smart to be have the urination trigger something. I was diagnosed when I was 10. and my parents were concerned when I started to wet the bed at times. and when my teacher called home because she thought I was always trying to get out of class by asking to go to the washroom.

Child levels Vs Adult levels really do not differ. If he does have diabetes then you will have caught it very early it seems. but It may not be diabetes. Frequent urination is usuallly a sign of Very high sugar levels the results you gave do not indicate very high levels.

Good luck at the doctors.

Pipermac

Though this does not refer to the original post what we were disagreeing about, if you even want to go that far, is the basic beliefs in what is considered acceptable for diabetics compared to non-diabetics. I have to go to a doctor that really does not even say what is acceptabel or not, almost like not going to anyone sometimes. I do follow the teachings of Richard Bernstein because his approach to treatment works very well for me. His treatment program treats type 1 and type 2 as being able to maintain normal blood results as normal non-diabetics. It requires very strict diet along with exercise(my downfall) along with the medicines(pills or insulin, on just diet alone depending on the individual), This allows for fasting blood sugars of between 85 and 95 everday. A rise of perhaps 20 to 30 above that after meals is considered in control. Blood sugars as high as 140 are considered out of control. I know most of the medical profession does not believe this is the way it should be. Diabetics are expected to have higher blood sugars, it is just the way it is. Well, I don't see it that way.

I have to say that being type 2 I am impressed with any type 1 that is able to achieve these goals. I read where some feel because you(type 1) you can eat anything yoiu want because you regulate the amount of insulin you need. Bernstein goes to great lengths to explain how that it is impossible to duplicat the workings of the body by just estimating the amount of insulin. But, again I must say, I am not using insulin so I cannot speak with any personal knowledge.

thanks all

I will probably need luck there as I'm sick and tired of the way they ignore my hubby's problem.

Dave has bi-polar disorder and takes anti-psychotics. For months now his GP has said he needs a med for the diabetes, but some silly cow at the hospital who called herself a doctor (dealing with high cholesterol and diabetes) told me he should eat only one meal a day!!!!!! and she refused to give him meds for the diabetes as he is on anti-psych's. she even complained about him eating a slice of toast at 11pm as he wasn't insulin dependant.

I took his reading this morning, pre breakfast and it was 9.8 (176.4) Tonight at midnight here, he hasn't eaten since 8pm and his reading was 13.0 (234).

He has done evreything they ask for he has lost over 1.5 stones in weight and the readings are exactly the same as they were before the weight loss. I really think it's time for meds for him. :confused:

Jackie x

Boy, you do have a problem. Usually the patient is the one that is in deniel. About the meds and what effect the other meds will have is something that must be addressed. His blood sugars are out of control. Of course, if you follow what they said they will always be out of control. I have heard the one meal a day approach before - it goes against everything you will read about treating diabetes.

It is easy to sit here thousands of miles away and give opinions - you don't have that luxury - you have to handle it face to face. I know it is not as easy to change your doctors, no matter where you are. Here I am stuck with what I have, being in a HMO that has no other doctors in this area. You have to research yourself and approach the medical people with knowledge and then make the decisions on how to approach your "program" yourself. Most of the treatment is in you hands anyway. The medications and the tests do fall under the medical peoples 'thing.'

Let us know what you find out about your son. This may be nothing and again it might a turning point in his life. I sugggest you google richard k bernstein. They provide plenty of great research information. Actually, research as much as you can. You will see so much that conflicts with the establishments point of view. Not that it is all correct. You know how that goes....

Desert..........

How Low of Carbohydrates does Bernstein reccomend? IS his plan basically the same as Atkins?

I am One of the People that Strongly believe that Atkins is very bad for you. So I am unsure of bernsteins approach.

Not to say he is wrong with what he is teaching...but I have my doubts when an individual goes against what Most Diabetes experts say is right....and Profits off it. Maybe in the years to come his approach will become accepted but in the mean time it appears to be someone out to make a buck by selling his advice.

Bernstein is similar to Adkins, but he approaches the needs of the diabetic which Adkins is more general. I cannot reach the 20 carbs a day that Bernstein.

As far as selling advice, he runs a medical practice in NY that specializes in diabetes. He uses his own advice, and has done done for many years. He heads up a foot clinic in large medical center(don't know the name). As far as selling things I cannot see the sale of books as being that good compared to running a successful medical practice. You should read some of the book and see for yourself. The main material out there is the American Diabeties Association. I read them too. They sell more information than just about anyone, does that them unacceptable. No it does not. They are not acceptable, to me, becuase of what they print in those books.

As far as Bernstein's approach to low carbs i don't think that I will ever be able to achieve that number - but trying has done wonders for me. I know when I eat carbs my blood sugars do rise, a lot. I do believe that high blood sugars are very bad for me and lowering them is critical to my survival without the bad things diabetes do to us. The ADA says that keep your A1c below 7.0 and you will head off the complications. Research and you will see were pre-diabetics are facing seriouis complications and this is with an A1c below 7.0. I agree with the Bernstein approach that we can live in "normal" ranges. The average person will test in the morning at about 85. We are not locked in at higher numbers because we are diabetic.

We all have to make our own decisions on our treatment - mine is with the people who do what they have to make my life better. Bernstein spends up to something like 6 to 8 hours with you the first time you see him. My doctor has spent no more than 20 minutes this entire last year and then only stares at me when I have a question. Don't judge him on the diet part, there is so much more to it, as you know being in this so long.

You know, I pay more for two office visits to a doctor(not really an MD,but a physicians assistant) than one book by Anyone out there and get more information. You read this over and over - my doctor did not tell me what to do, what to eat, how to exercise, what the complications can be. One book did all that for me. If I like the diet approach or not I learned so much that the medical profession has not even mentioned. And they charge me every time I talk with them. Charging for medical advice is the way it is done. As far as being against the industries way of treatment - what is the medical approach to diabetes - not much. They are so far behind. I did not have to read Bernstein to know that. But, again, we have to treat ourselves the way we see fit. Giving him $20 does not take away from what he has to teach me. I cannot pay my doctor to tell me anything.

Hi again

Boy, you do have a problem. Usually the patient is the one that is in deniel. About the meds and what effect the other meds will have is something that must be addressed. His blood sugars are out of control. Of course, if you follow what they said they will always be out of control. I have heard the one meal a day approach before - it goes against everything you will read about treating diabetes.

I refuse to follow what she says, I think it is way out of order to ask him to have one meal a day, I was furious with her.

It is easy to sit here thousands of miles away and give opinions - you don't have that luxury - you have to handle it face to face. I know it is not as easy to change your doctors, no matter where you are.

I agree, but if it was the GP that would be easy, this was a consultant at the hospital who told us to that :eek: When it is down to NHS Russells Hall is our nearest hospital and that is where we are sent, we aren't allowed to go to a different health authority and, like you, we HAVE to see this woman. There is no option on that over here.

Let us know what you find out about your son. This may be nothing and again it might a turning point in his life.

I will do I'm going to talk to the GP tomorrow when I go with Dave to ask him to sort out meds for the diabetes. I'm going to kick up a bit of a stink so I'll let you know what happens next.

Thanks again both, the information you have both said is interesting. My GP doesn't agree with Atkins either Pipermac, he says all it is, is a diet that induces diabetes. I haven't read much on it, I just know Dave would find it v. hard to cut back on the carbs any more than he has bless.

Jackie xx

Interesting I havent heard of Atkins Inducing diabetes...that doesnt make sense...but I have heard of a lot of other issues concerning it.

Back to the original post... I am glad to hear that you are getting your son into see the GP soon. I Have a son with Apraxia of Speech and Autism. When it comes to children, a parent needs to go out on their own and find answers until they get one they can feel comfortable with. All of the opinions in the world mean little when it come's to your kids

As for having type 1, I feel that is a moot point. Type 1's have extreme blood sugars at diagnosis. You wouldn't be looking at a 120, you would be looking at a 500. I am a type 1 and can have a normal blood sugar in the morning only to have a high, 500, in the afternoon. That is how fast they change so I don't believe there is even a question of type 1 in this issue.

As for ANY diet, it would be careless to self diagnose your son and start him on any diet. Everyone on here will have ideas so it is important to go with your gut and do what feels best to you.

Nothing takes the place of a mother's intuition

Whoever said that Adkins induces diabetes is show extreme stupidity. You don't have to like it, many people don't. But, to go to the extent that it induces diabetes when the entire medical field says they know little about what causes diabetes. I don't believe in saying this, but you are dealing with a fool. The upside is the medical profession does essentially only control their part of your treatment. They more often than not say very little about what you eat or what exercises you do. It all comes down to where on the scale of control you want to be. Adkins is not the answer either - you have to be a lot more controlled than that. It, I have found, is the right direction. Just eating a balanced diet as many doctors recomment will keep you in the out of cortrol range. As unpopular as it sounds you can be in control like a non-diabetic does every day. It is very difficult to do and takes understanding what the effects of everything you injest have on you.

Your approach will be best served by picking your battles - why fight or get hung up on particulars about your diet or exercise when you are going to do what you want anyway - get the medications right - get an eye exam and learn about problems that you(your son) will have if he is a diabetic. Diabetics do get complication even in the early stages - the sooner you deal with them the better.

Mommyof4 hi no I wouldn't start Dom on a diet at all. I do know he is overweight though, which does worry me as I wonder if there are problems being stored up for the future. I have heart disease too, so there are a lot of illnesses in the families to be wary of in our house. I just want him to eat healthily and balanced for now until we get somewhere with the docs. Which as I say frustrate the hell out of me. You ahve at least made me feel less worried telling me of the type 1's being so quick to change. Sadly I can;t remember my grandads problems as I was a lot younger when he died.

desertdiabetic I hope I didn;t offend you with what was said, I was only repeating my docs point of view, like I say I don't take a fat lot of notice of any of them really, they have made so many mistakes with us. (they told me 18 months ago that I had nothing wrong with me as I am too young, I have angina and cardiomyopathy, I ketp being sent away for 6 months). I also feel they have made a gigantic mistake with my hubby which I hope will be recitifed tomorrow.

Well wish me luck tomorrow,

Jakcie x

jakerleen

You did not say anything to offend me. I know you were refering to them.

I get a lot of flack because of my following of Dr Richard Bernstein(not my personal doctor) that does not follow the medical establishments ways. The medical professions tells people here that blood sugars of 140, 150, 200 or more okay. Even the low 120 fasting numbers are ok. They are not if you want to live a normal life. Which you can, well, I wil say I believe most of us can - multiple health problems are too difficult to overcome sometimes. Poeple are critical of this doctor because he does not say you can eat what you want or does he say that you can trade items to get what you want - he calls it like it is - you have to control what you eat and with that you can have low blood sugars all the time and the better health that comes with that. Such an evil person he must be to say that a diabetic can be normal and fight off the complications and prove it himself - he is a type 1 for over 60 years and had many of the serious problems we all face when he followed the ADA's way of treating his diabetes. Again, such an evil person for wanting us all to be informed and healthy. He does say that you may have high blood sugars when you get sick - have a fever - have a dehydrating illness. My doctor did not tell me that fact. My doctor does not have an after hours phone number for me to call when I get sick, Bernstein does for his regular patients. For those who he is just making money selling anti-establishment has not read his boods. The same information in the books anyone can get free on his website. He gives it out in chapters for anyone who wants it.

But, the real concern here is your son and what you can do for him. The best right now is educate yourself. You are the main treatment for him. Please don't close your mind to all aspects of treatment. And when I say diet I never mean diet for weight loss. Weight loss diets do not work. I mean diet in the lifestyle changes that we all must make.