Hello everyone,

I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes almost 4 years and I am still struggling with the problem of what to eat. It seems like no matter what I eat or don't eat, my numbers are high. I am currently taking Byetta, Lantus, and Amaryl. I have tried almost all of the oral pills and I can tell no difference with my numbers.

There seems to be a fine line of exactly how many carbs to eat. If I eat too many carbs my numbers are high and if I don't eat enough carbs my numbers are higher. I have been eating around 30 carbs per meal with readings around 185 after meals. So I cut back to a lower carb diet this week <around 10-20> carbs per meal and now my numbers are well over 200 after eating. I think my liver must think I am going into famine and dumping sugar or something?

I keep thinking it must be something that I am eating or not eating because they say a big part of controlling Type 2 diabetes is diet and exercise. I also exercise and that too makes my numbers go up and then I have a hard time getting it back down.

I am very frustrated because all I do is work at this every day of my life and it seems it is getting worse instead of better.

Does anyone else have this problem? I read about well-controlled diabetics and tight controlled diabetics. How do you do this? What do you eat? I am very frustrated.

The thing that amazes me the most is when I try Bernstein's plan or Atkin's my numbers will go sky high. It seems like my body wants some carbs.

It shouldn't be this hard. Or should it?

Kat

some thing Weird going on.

first off...185 after eating is not that bad. what are your fasting levels?

also I can not see how exercising will cause your levels to go up or eating less carbs. It just doesn work that way. Are you Stressed alot? Stress can affect your sugars greatly.

I agree with Pipermac here. Something very weird here. I do follow Bernsteins ways and control very well. It is when I stray that they jump up - sometimes up to 130 or so. I only say that because there is something else wrong here. Exercise and low carbs don't raise your Blood glucose numbers. You are taking a lot of meds that do require some balance, again they should not cause what you are describing. If you read Bernstein you have seen that there are other things that raise blood glucose levels. Though you wouldn't think you would have a long running infectionn that you did not know about. High blood glucose after eating is not your body saying it wants more.

If you could give more numbers like mentioned above. Fasting, one hour and two hour numbers.

My BS is around 185 2-hours after eating and around 145 before eating. That is not good. I feel like I try very hard and it is impossible for me to go lower. As far as exercise....... I have read there are a lot of people whose numbers go higher after exercise. It's very common. Your liver kicks in some sugar for you and your body cannot process it. I continue to exercise because it gives me more energy. I use to take Novolog but it also did not lower my numbers. All it did was make me gain weight <which made my numbers higher>. My endo says my body is making plenty of insulin. I could never understand how giving me more insulin will help if my body already has enough insulin that it is not using well.

I use to take Glucophage and my numbers were slightly better but I can no longer take that because of severe diarrhea. I also use to take Actos but I can no longer take that because of the weight gain and swelling of my ankles. I never saw any difference with my numbers while taking it anyway. The Byetta helps a little. The Amaryl helps a little, and I guess the Lantus is working. I'm not sure of that one.

Thanks for any suggestions. Kat

I've never heard of Bernstein, but based on the replies to this post, it seems I should be finding out more. Your situation baffles me. Whenever I follow the Atkins approach, I always get lower BS readings, anywhere from 105-115 2 hours after a meal. If I eat a small carb snack before bedtime(not more than 15 grams), my fasting BS levels are almost always 122 the next morning. You mentioned your Endo says you produce plenty of insulin, so insulin resistence is your main culprit. When you exercise, do you include any serious weight training? I am reading a book written by Gretchen Becker and she mentions the long term benefits of muscle building to help fight off insulin resistence. I know it isn't a short term fix, but if you only do cardio stuff, I would at least consider a muscle-building program to compliment your cardio routine. After reading her book, I am seriously considering adding muscle building to my routine, as well.

What I don't understand is(well, you could write a book on this) is why your doctor is giving you more insulin if you produce enough. If you body is insulin resistant, as is the case with type 2, then more would just be more insulin that is not being utilized. Excess insulin is counter productive.

The exercise causing increased blood glucose levels still does not make sense. Okay, let's say that it does cause a rise in the short run because of the bodies reaction to the exercise. Building muscles helps utilize insulin in the long run. It more than helps - it is part of the normal process.

I don't recommend this lightly - change doctors may be in order. If that is possible. The relationship between patient and doctor is beyone my opinion, but just because a doctor specializes in this does not mean he/she is any good at it. Or your doctor is just not taking your problem serious enough. Many feel the numbers you give are accaptable. You are sick you know. I am being sarcastic. The medical profession makes decissionsl on the safe side.

I wish those extreme low-carb diets would work for me. If they did, I would eat that way all the time to keep my BS down. My BS is also high eating carbs but not as high as the extremely low carb. Yes, I do weight training twice a week along with my aerobics. It makes me feel better but does nothing for my numbers. Kat

I don't understand how giving insulin to someone insulin resistant helps either, but my A1c did go down slightly after starting the Lantus. I have considered switching doctors many times, not because of the doctor but because her office staff is very unprofessional, rude, and "icky" <if you get my drift>. When I first started going to her 4 years ago she had a great staff and I think she must have wanted to save money or something and hired this bunch. I have always liked the doc though because she works with me. I don't like it because she never has suggested diet or exercise and I could stand to lose a few pounds. Do any doctors suggest diet or exercise in helping to control your BS or is it just mine? The reason I hate switching is because there is so many drugs that I can not take I am afraid I will have to go through all of that again, and it gets expensive. Kat

..... My BS is also high eating carbs but not as high as the extremely low carb. Yes, I do weight training twice a week along with my aerobics ....
This doesn't make sense. A low carb diet won't cause you to have high blood sugars. If your blood sugar is high while you are on a low-carb diet, it must be caused by something else. Could it be stress hormones?

I have also found that my blood sugar increases sharply after vigorous exercise. I can only assume that it is because of increased levels of adrenalin and cortisol. And the inappropriate release of glucose by my liver has been an ongoing challenge. I have found that Metformin moderates the effect very well. And it is unfortunate that you are not able to use it.

I know it is frustrating. And it is easy to get side-tracked in the quest for better control. I guess I am saying that blaming a low-carb diet for high blood sugar is barking up the wrong tree. Good luck with finding something that works.

Cheers,

Mark

If you are insulin resistant, and it sounds like you are, you may be able to get numbers back down doing what I did and do.

I was diagnosed 5 years ago and still control via diet/exercise only. Yes, I was and still am overweight. On the following diet I lost 65 lbs. in a year.

Breakfast:
1/4 c. oatmeal mixture (oatmeal, oat bran, wheat bran, soy granules)
water
walk 1 mile 1 hr. after meal

Lunch:
3 oz. lean meat
1/2 c. green veg.
1/2 c. green veg or salad
water
walk 1 mile 1 hr. after meal

Dinner:
3 oz. lean meat
1/2 c. green veg.
1/2 c. green veg or salad
water
walk 1 mile 1 hr. after meal

A good multivitamin plus Citrical and magnesium.

Sticking with this faithfully resulted in lowering my BS and losing weight.

Weighing and measuring food is very important. My eyes would say one thing and the measuring cups said another.

I am very INSULIN RESISTANT.

If you are serious about losing weight and gaining control of BS the above should work.

I was able to maintain BS very well on the above. Along the way added other foods off and on only for BS to elevate more than desired. I also gained 20 lbs. during time I stayed with both parents at the hospital, etc. before their deaths and I am having a hard time getting the weight off. The other day decided to go back to the above strick diet and so far a few lbs. have dropped and BS is back down.

When we are insulin resitant it is much harder to lose weight, something that we need to do because losing weight makes you less insulin resistant.

It will take a strong mind set to do the above, but, it is worth everything in order to get and keep control of diabetes.

Once you succeed in bringing diabetes under control, then, you will be able to add a new food here and there testing before and after so you will know what that food does to you. If the new food raises BS too high, omit and try another one, etc. Then consume a diet of o.k. foods for you. Everyone is different as to what they can eat and remain in control.

Being insulin resistant, the lower or closer to 100 my bedtime BS is the better fasting number I will have the next morning.

Some of us utilize every particle of food value from food and therefore need to eat less.

First off....Those Sugar levels you Gave are that bad at all.

Secondly..They give you insulin because if you are resisten...then your body maybe can only use 50% of the insulin. If you give yourself more insulin then 50% of the new dose is more.

Misty800, That diet is extremely strict!!! That oatmeal mixture you mention for breakfast; is that 1/4 c. dry or 1/4 cooked? Do you mix it yourself and if so, how much of each? If you buy a premix, what is the name? Where do you get it? How do you keep oatmeal of any kind from sending your BG soaring? I try to eat a serving of oat bran mixed with peanut butter for breakfast, and 2 hours later, my numbers are above 220. I can't seem to eat anything but protein for breakfast. I have been eating eggs with bacon or eggs with sausage.

I do agree with the very strict diet approach(I know, surprise, surprise) as difficult as it is. I am not there yet. I do eat the same thing for breakfast that works well for me. I too have a difficulty eating oatmeal without driving up my bg. I would like to know how you do it. The problem with this kind of diet is very few people would even consider it. We are so into what we eat it is like taking our freedom from us. I guess it comes down to how much you want to have normal bg levels. The other situation is where you feel the acceptable levels are. In my particular case normal numbers are possible. I know some people have other problems and lifestyles that prevent normal numbers. Looking back on jobs I have had I can see it would have been impossible to have a strick diet.

[QUOTE=Mark Munday]This doesn't make sense. A low carb diet won't cause you to have high blood sugars.

I have to eat a few carbs or my BS goes very high. I don't know what else it could be and it always happens when I don't eat carbs or if I miss a meal. I have tried Bernstein's and Atkins and both of these diets will cause my BS to soar.

I believe that my liver produces glucose when I don't eat carbs. It happens at night for a lot of people <dawn phenomenon>. So I think it happens to me when I miss a meal, or don't eat carbs at a meal, and it also happens at night. My BS is also high when I eat too many carbs. That's what I mean when I say should it be this hard? My numbers are the best when I eat around 8 carbs for breakfast, and around 30 carbs for lunch and dinner. Around 15 for snacks. It's hard for me to be this good consistently. And even when I am being very good and watching every carb I don't think my numbers are that great. Kat

I don't understand how you see what you are doing as being different than Bernstein. He recomments 6, 12 and 12. You are very close. You should be controlling very well. I think it has been said a few times "there is something else wrong here." Missing a meal and eating no carbs is not good either. I can't believe I am recommending carbs for anyone. It is what you miss that contain carbs that is the problem. Sorry there is no real answer for you here. It has to be very frustrating to lose control when you are doing so much right.

I don't think I have ever had control of this to lose it. LOL I have yet to find one plan that works. I wake up every morning and my BS is around 185. I have tried every combination of snacks before bed and nothing works. My doc says the only way I will be able to control my morning numbers is to go on the pump. I can get it down to 140 pretty quickly by taking my drugs and eating around 8 carbs. I feel like I should have and would like to have lower numbers but I think it is impossible. Sometimes I think switching doctors might give me different results. Kat

Getting a Second Opinion might be worth a try. After all Doctors are only human and not all of them are the same.

the Key to keeping control is to try and eat the Same Every day. It doesn mean the Exact same Foods, but the same amount of Protein, Fat, and Carbs. Protein and Fat can actually raise your blood sugar.....it just happens very slow and generally does not raise it very much. If you can Strictly stick to the same amount( and at the same times Every day) you Should be able to find out what the Right combination is for you.

Try this for a week...... and you should be able to figure this out. Also it would be good to keep a journal. record everything you eat, what activity you had, how much insulin and meds youve taken, and how you have felt at certain times of the day..(Stressed, happy, sad). once you have done this for a while you may be able identify any trends that you have. and may be able to figure out what it is that triggers your high sugars.

You may also want to talk to your doctor about adding Humalog to your Insulin regime....taking a shot before each meal. this type of regime really allows for pretty tight control.

Thank you for your thoughts on this. I did try Novolog once but didn't see much difference with my numbers. Is Humalog the same as Novolog? Kat

I don't know the exact mechanism but I know that if my blood sugar is over a certain point, exercise will bring my sugars up. It is possible that sugar is released for the exercise.

Cora

Reading a book intitled Lose the weight you hate by Ritchie C Shoemaker. quite an interesting book. Maybe it would help? i'm trying what he suggests..

A few things come to mind about your situation. First of all, Type 2's have one of two things going on. They either don't produce enough insulin or they can't use the insulin they make. In either case, sometimes insulin injections are in order. Synthetic insulin works in a different way that natural insulin so that often times brings blood sugars back to normal. Secondly, we all have different metabolic rates. Your body craves carbs because you use carbs for energy. Either that or you are addicted to simple carbs without realizing it. Are you a very controlled eater or do you tend to graze?

You can also obsess about blood sugars to the point that the stress drives them higher. Are you seeing and Endo or a GP? You really need to be seeing and Endocrinologist who will run the tests to find out what is going on. Believe me, there is ALWAYS an answer. Your liver might be functioning abnormally and storing too much sugar. There are so many things that can be going on. You also need to see a Registered Dietician to figure out your carb count. Self adjustment rarely works.

Novolog and Humalog are different but act the same way. You should have noticed a difference with the Novolog. I would get in with an Endo and discuss all of this. Good luck

Misty800, That diet is extremely strict!!! That oatmeal mixture you mention for breakfast; is that 1/4 c. dry or 1/4 cooked? Do you mix it yourself and if so, how much of each? If you buy a premix, what is the name? Where do you get it? How do you keep oatmeal of any kind from sending your BG soaring? I try to eat a serving of oat bran mixed with peanut butter for breakfast, and 2 hours later, my numbers are above 220. I can't seem to eat anything but protein for breakfast. I have been eating eggs with bacon or eggs with sausage.

I mix the oatmeal mixture myself.

1 large box Quacker Old Fashion Oatmeal
1 box Oat Bran (1 lb., I think)
1 box or bag Wheat Bran (1lb., I think)
1 box Soy Granules (from health food store) (1 or 2 lbs, I think)

Note: amount of each can vary

Mix the above and store in containers. To use measure out 1/4 cup (level) DRY mixture and cook in 1/2 to 2/3 cup water, in microwave until mixture rolls over but not out of bowl. Let set to thicken. Add more water or a little low fat milk if desired. I now add 2 tablespoon wheat germ and 2 tablespoon ground flaxseed, and 1/2 cup Carb Contol (3 g.) yogurt.

The HIGH FIBER (soluible and nonsoluible fiber) apparently keeps my BS down and even lower than the fasting BS 2 hrs. after eating breakfast. REMEMBER, everyone is different, this may work for you and it may not. I can only eat the oatmeal mixture for breakfast. If I eat it for lunch or dinner my BS is too high. This mixture lowers my BS after breakfast, not sure why, but I can't fault it as long as it works for me.

Yes, the diet is strict, but, it brought my A1C down from 7 to 5.1. After I added other foods in the past year my A1C has creeped up to 6.1. I now am going back on the strict diet in order to regain strict control of diabetes.

I agree, not many people will sacrifice their desires in order to stick with a strict diet like the above. I chose to not risk side effects of meds or diabetes complications. I have always had to diet (1,000-1,200 calories) due to being overweight, so, creating a diet for my diabetes was not a problem for me. Yes, I would love potatoes, rich desserts, pasta, etc. I once consumed, but, I can do without it now in hopes of keeping all my toes, etc. I went to two different dieticians at the hospital for weight control several years ago (before diabetes) and they finally threw up their hands and said they could not help me. I gained 30 lbs in 3 months on their diet, counting every calorie in foods plus any lick of a spoon (they were trying to rev up my metabolism). An internist many years ago told me my body did not waste a particle of food value, therefore, I need to eat less than the average person. Hmmm....great, I have a normal appetite! Weight loss is much harder for me.

Yesterday, I went to a luncheon and then a dinner party. All food was really a no-no for me. I ate a slice of ham, a little bit of several dishes at both parties (plate was full but not heaped). I was shocked at bedtime, BS=100. Servings were about 2 measuring tablespoons of each food (no I did not carry a measuring spoon, guessed at amount). I even had a small piece of non-frosted cake at each party. Have no clue how I rated such good BS, but, I am not complaining, I will take it and run with it!! I expected to be forced to walk down a too high BS, what a pleasant surprise.

I had to give up bacon and sausage with eggs for breakfast. The fat was too much and increased the insulin resistance. You might be interested in how I prepare eggs (a frequent dinner meal). Since my husband must watch his cholesterol very close, I scramble eggwhites with chopped onion, green bell pepper, and chopped pimento in a non-stick skillet using Pam vegetable spray. Add fat-free cheese if desired.

Another thing I prepare often in cold weather is Vegetable Soup made using Stir-Fry Vegetables, stewed tomatoes, onion, beef chunks, canned kidney beans, leftovers from frig plus water. This makes a filling but low calorie, low carb meal. Sometimes I will have 5 crackers with it.

In the past 5 years I have consumed salads and salads. Think I am on my 2nd train car load of Romaine lettuce!! Filling up on salad helps reduce amount of carbs consumed at a meal. Many meals were salad plus 3 oz grilled chicken. Protein keeps me from getting hungry before the next meal.

One reason the oat bran plus peanutbutter does not work for you may be the high sugar and fat content of the peanutbutter. Oat bran plus 3 oz. grilled chicken or other low fat meat might work for you better.

On the strict diet my triglycrides and LDL dropped, the HDL increased.

If you give the oatmeal mixture a try, let me know how it does for you.

Misty

This dietary juggling seems complicated...right? If you eat about the same thing and know the weight or volume of this intake (and of course you medicine doesn't change..) , couldn't you just lower the volume of this particular food(intake) a little and see if your BGs don't go down a little? Seems like you could get control this way.

:bouncing: I noticed certain food seems to make my BGS go up too much, and I can't control my BGs no matter how small amount of this food I eat....then I eliminate them? Maybe I'm sensitive to that food, right? Specifically, I'm sensitive to peanut butter, milk, tomatoes, apples, and Pizza(tomatoes)...can't eat this stuff at ALL! I even look in the contents for these ingredients. I also get terrible headaches and really high!! BG-spikes at 1/2 hour after I eat them. If I eat them in any volume, my bg's stay high for 2-3 hours. :bouncing:

Once I eliminated these foods, I felt much better, and my A1c's came down too.
(My mother had this same problem, and she is using Insulin, and seems to be getting much better control since she found her trigger foods.)

Kat,

You don't have to change your primary care physician, but you ought to try an endocrinologist, preferably one that specializes in diabetes.

Some hospitals, especially those in major cities have departments dedicated to diabetes.

One of the MANY problems with diabetes is that its not so much a disease, as several diseases. Unfortunately, what works for me, might not work for you ("your mileage may vary"). There are many different "diabetic" diets that go from high carb to very low carb. I try to watch my carbs, but I'd call my lifestyle (I hate the word diet, seems like a temporary fix to a permanent problem), middle-of-the-road carbs. I try to follow the glycemic index as much as possible. Possible a higher carb diet would work for you.

As far as exercise is concerned, you can end up with higher blood glucose (BG) after exercising depending on what and when you last ate, how long and vigorously you exercise, any stress (good or bad) associated with the exercise, and also loss of water (due to perspiration) during exercise. I bike to work (30-40 minutes) and struggle with my BG levels afterwards. I have to make sure I drink plenty of fluids before I test.

I hope these ramblings help. Good luck.