I have a few questions to ask if anyone knows the anwers to, or have been through the same thing. I have been addicted to Lorcet for years (9) and I take on average 5-10 a day. In the morning when I wake up I have horrible stomach cramps and diarrhea. If I dont eat pills when I wake up, I will start coughing and vomiting before noon. Does anyone know the long term effects on the gastrointestinal tract from vic use? Any imput would be appreciated
Thanks

I would highly suggest a trip to your doc for some in depth testing on your liver,both labs and an ultrasound since the labs will only show the actual damage by out of range labs when the actual damage reaches a certain point.trust me on that.The vomiting and nausea could all be indications of possible liver and or kidney damage.you state this has been actually going on for nine years??how much actual tylenol is contained in lorcet?I know that lortab,it is 500mgs.this long term use of tylenol,even if you are staying within the guidelines,can and will eventually cause some pretty bad cell death to your liver cells.it is the long term chronic use that does it.nine years is a pretty long time to be slamming your liver with tylenol on a daily basis.even for a chronic pain patient i would strongly advise them to get the hell off this much tylenol and switch to a differnt med that either has a much smaller amount of it,or better yet,does not contain any at all.But you really DO need to see your doc to have those labs and USs done on your liver and your kidneys.tylenol hits the kidneys in some cases,even harder than it does the liver,for some reason,you never hear about that.and the kidney damage is permanent,and does not repair itself like in some cases of liver damage.you will have the kidney damage forever.please see your doc,and if this is an addiction issue,I think after nine years,it is way past the time to have a heart to heart with your doc and seek out some help for your problem.really.it can and has been done by many many people like myself.nine years with this much tylenol evry single day will show itself in the damage it it doing.this could be what is actually happening right now.this IS a big a** wake up call.please let me know what you find out,K?good luck, marcia

I agree, see your doctor! I know that when I had an endoscopy in the hospital a few weeks ago to diagnose my abdominal pain (turned out to be unrelated) they did find that I had some paralysis of the digestive track. My doctor said that it was more than likely caused by my pain med usage (I was on vicodin at the time). For a month or so before that I was having horrible nausea and throwing up all the time. Mine was also mostly in the morning or early afternoon, before I took my pills for the day. It can be SO many things. You definitely want to get it checked out right away.

Thank you Marcia for the input. I have been an addict for nine years, since I was 15. I have taken vicodin pretty much every day, there were several occasions where I have seen a doctor, I was on 20-25 a day for almost 3 months, it was costing me a fortune, but money was never an issue (then) However I then turned septic. My doctor did a rapid detox and them put me on Naltrexone for five months, after the pills ran out I started back on the vocidin. I have again recently went back to the doctor and told him that I was up to about 10 a day again and this time he put me on Methadone, first 10 mg's 4 times a day. Of course I abused those too and the bottle was gone in 4 days. There were 50 pills to start with. I would also mix them with the lortabs. On average I do consume over 4000 mg's of Acetaminophen a day / 100-150 mg's of Hydrocodone.
I wake up and take 3-5 then about 3 hours later I take 3-5 more. Around 6 in the evening I take 2 more. Then go to sleep. Around 8-9 the next morning I usually get woken up by severe stomach cramps and/or diahrrea. If I go until 10-11 without taking any, I start coughing so bad that I vomit.
This morning I only took one, that is all that I have, since money is an issue now I can afford them since the cost 3 dollars a pill and I am out of options doctor wise and my dentist wont give me anymore since I have had every issue in my mouth addressed. It hasnt gotten to the point where I started running script doctors, but Im afraid thats what it will lead to.
I want to stop, but I get so sick without them that I cant. I also have a 3 month old son, I dont have time to get sick, but want to stop for his sake,
I dont want to hear how bad this sounds and how I need to grow up and seek help, I know all this and I have tried to seek help, I just cant stop taking them.

LPierce - There is no judgement here. Only advice, support, and friendship. Most of us have been where you are. I'm sure everyone here understands that feeling... of wanting so badly to stop using but not seeming to be able to. We are here for you. If you want advice on quitting, you can find that here. If you just need a sounding board and shoulder to lean on, we are here for that as well. Keep posting. It does help just to get everythign off you chest. You should read the old posts by another member "buzzkiller". He was in a very similar place in his addiction when he first started using this board and has made incredible progress over the past few months. Good luck!

then you need to seek help again.i really don't want to sit here and lecture you,I KNOW you know what you should do,you just need to keep doing it,if it dosen't work,then you do it again.if you honestly and truely want to quit,you can,it is all in your very own hands.no one can do it for you.you already know this so I am just going to tell you that you may be "forced" to quit once your liver and kidneys tell you to.this constnt slamming of these organs with the high amount of tylenol you are using WILL take it's toll on you eventually.this HAS to stop,if not for your own sake,for your child.my kids were my only real true motivation when i was trying to stop,honestly,if I did not have my kids,I don't think i would have been able to do this.really.your child is your anchor and your reason for being here and he needs you healthy.this is what you really need to start thinking about.we as addicts can be soooo selfish in our behavior that we lose site of the most important things in our lives.it is not that you are a bad mom,it is the nature of the addiction.we are slaves to the pills and this is what motivates our days,every day,to the exclusion of the really really important things in our lives.you are not alone there,trust me.some how,some way,you just have to stop.going thru outpatient treatment really helped me alot.have you thought about using the suboxone?this is really looking like the one and only thing that may help you the most sonce the methadone failed.I would very highly recomend this type of treatment.you are just stuck in this ongoing nightmare and are so patterned in the way you think that you need something to break this up.if nothing else,just give it a shot,and always,always keep the picture of your child stuck firmly in your mind and what could possibly happen if you don't stop this soon.You could very well be already suffering the effects of all that tylenol and you do need to get this all evaluated asap to see just where things are at.trust me,you DO NOT want to suffer thru liver failure.i watched my then 12 year old son go thru it and it was hell on earth.luckily a liver became availiable like just in the nick of time and we still have him here now six years later.you NEED to start thinking about your child and what would happen to him if you were not here.I really hate to have to say this to you,really,but you seem to really need much more motivation to stop all of this and get on with your most important job,raising that beutiful child that you gave birth to.he needs you.I am sorry if this came across as a lecture,i was really trying to avoid that.but you DO need to start thinking in a non addict way in order to get yourself motivated enough to beat this,right now,the addiction is beating you.i don't have to tell you that.Just take it one day at a time and see about the sub,it could literally save your life.You just cannot keep repeating this behavior over and over or your health will pay for it.please see your doc and come up with a plan,and then do everything in your power to stay with it.I know that sounds pretty simple,but basically this is what it all boils down to.then congratulate yourself every single day that you go without the pills.take those baby steps before trying to make that big leap.you WILL end up on the other side.it will just take awhile,but you KNOW you can do it.after all,you are a mom, and moms do whatevr they have to do to make sure their kids are always put first,and ahead of everything else.we do it because we have to.you CAN do this,trust me.If I can,you can.good luck and please let me know how you are doing,K? I DO care and want you to get your life back and raise that baby in a non addicted home.i will say a prayer for your strength.you can get over that 'wall" but it just may have to be by one brick at a time,ya know?any positive step is a good step.we are always here for you.marcia

Thanks for all the info and support, I know that everyone here knows what Im going through, just as I too can relate. I have lost a lot because of this addiction. I was married to a state trooper, and was a 911 dispatcher for 6 years, You would think that working for Law Enforcement would stop you from using or at least put fear in you, but it just made it easier, all the cops I worked with were also on them, I got the majority of my pills from them. I would also get them from the jail med room. I made friends with the ER doctor and was getting shots of 50mg demerol every other day.
After my divorce, I slowed to some degree, them got remarried, he started taking the pills with me, and now he is in the same boat I am in eating several a day. This morning I only took 2 lorcets, to keep the withdrawls at bay, I have two more for tomorrow. I am going to try and taper myself, because Marcia you are right, I have to want to do this, no intervention is going to help me obviously. I am only 24. I have my entire life ahead of me, I am a very smart girl with a bachelors degree in communications, a 3 month old son whom I adore, and a husband that also wants to stop. Thanks for all your advice!!
Lyn

Do you have insurance? If so, with a government policy (through the state police) you will not only have inpatient rehab, but short-term disability as well. I am not judging, I am a recovered Norco addict. I take the maximum amount per day (12.5 = 4g of Acitamenophen, the max adult daily dosage), and took them for about 14 months. No one here is passing any judgements, we have all been there. But your getting sick is a sign of a much bigger problem. It is a tough thing, but you can not be fired for having a disabling illness (yes, this is considered as that). You need to get checked out before you end up with kidney failure, which this most likely is the first sign of. People like us fall way down on the donor list, since we are likely to just destroy or new kidneys by using again. Go to your doctor and get a full screenning done and look at what options you have under your insurance. If you don't have temp disability through your job, then the statemost likely has some sort of benefits you can get.

Hope you tkae the leap and start to really work on besting this. I know exactly what it feels like to not be able to imagine life without pills. They take such a deep hold on your body, but that is why you need to fight this with everyting you have.

Thanks for the advice....I will call my doctor (the one who prescribes the methadone) and have him run a complete blood count on me and check everything out. I took one pain pill this morning, but then took 5 more at lunch and two just a minute ago. I hate they way my attitude is when I dont have them, I start to get sick, I took 5 at lunch time because I had a lot to do, and then by the time I got home I was feeling bad, so I took two more. I have taken 8 today, but thats actually less than what I have been taking, I am trying to taper. Yesterday I took 11. You know how it is, when you wake up you have no energy and feel bad, If I know that I have pills for tomorrow (which I do) I will wake up in a better mood.
I no longer have insurance, since I quit the police department and had my son, and yes I even took pain pills while I was pregnant...I know, but in my defense, I was taking a lot when I found out, and my OBGYN said to taper myself but dont stop cold turkey...It took me a week to taper to 2 pills a day, but then by the last trimester I took one day, I thank god everyday that my son was healthy and nearly nine pounds and had no withdrawal symptoms, and I know what you must be thinking, but these are my demons and I battle them daily. I can finally say that enough is enough. I want to stay alive and raise my son, without drugs. I am now responsible fo the life of someone else. It was at first hard for me to wake up everyday and do all the things required of me as a mother, I also work from him now, through the internet, and have a busy day, I take the pills to keep up with the demands of a new baby, and work, and still clean (since I am a compulsive neat freak) and cook dinner for my husband. Without the pills I dont have the motivation to do anything. I know that I am a smart girl and can beat this, but these pills are like an anti-depressant to me, they put me in a good mood, I am nicer to people on these and I can seem to get everything done that I want to get done when I take them. I plan to post daily and let you know how I am doing, since I think talking about it makes me feel better, and realize hpw stupid and addicted I sound, so I just want to say thank you to everyone that listens and responds.

its hard for me to obtain scritps, since all of my charts say OPIATE ADDICT. When I go to the ER, and have any kind of pain, they give me Tordol which is like Ibuprofen, which worked for me when I was in pain, but they no longer give me dermerol, and I had so many hydrocodone scripts filled in 2002 that they said that they state flagged me and I would have to get all narcotic medications on a triplicat (sp?) prescription, like what adderall and methadone are written on. But what can I say I did it to myself, I was compulsive, if I have 10 pills for tomorrow I will take that many, but I am really going to taper off, I would love to wake up in the morning and be excited about my day without having to worry about getting pain pills and coming up with the 30 dollars to get the 10 pills, and since my dearly beloved is on them too, he spends 30 dollars a day as well, we are just being imature adn irresponsible. I know that I need to grow up and stop this crap, but this addictions got me by the throat, well I dont let it interfere with me raising my child, and so that I dont give anyone any reason to call CPS because they think I am an unfit mother, i am just going to taper off and stop. Hopefully, its easier said than done, I am like every other drug addict, I talk a great talk, but I cant walk the walk. I know what needs to be done, and finally my husband and I sat down and came to the conclusion that just this year alone if we wouldnt have bought pills and put that money in savings we could have a brand new car paid for pretty much in full, we spend 60 dollars a day on this evil habit.
These Vics are a pain in the butt to get off of, but earlier when I wanted to take more, I just looked at my 3 month old sons face, and he is so helpless and depends completely on me, everything he does he needs me for, and I dont want to put anything above my child. I want to spend all this money on him. My husband had 60 dollasr ealier, that he was going to go spend on pills, but then he said he was just going to deposit that in our sons savings account before the addiction got the best of him. He did it. He put the money in our sons account, he deserves that more that we need drugs, thanks again for all the advice you guys are great!

Have you thought about try buprenorphene (subutex,suboxone)???Go to www.suboxone.com and there you will find a doctor locator,find the doctors in your area and make an appointment.You are addictted and you need medical intervention.This drug will take away all your cravings and withdrawls allowing you to get your life back on track.When you feel read you can sloooooowly detox off with little or no withdrawls.Good luck and don't be afraid to get help.....Dave

Ive thought about Sub. Even asked my doctor, but he decided to put me on Methadone instead, and those are just as addicting, and the withdrawal from Methadone is worse (in my mind) than the damned Lorcet. Thanks for the advise, I am going to call my doctor today and tell him that even though I am on the Methadone, I am still taking pain pills, cause he only has me on 40 mgs of Methadone a day, and I was taking 150 mgs of hydrocodone, He said that 40 mgs would be the highest dose that he could start me out on, since it takes a long time to taper off Methadone.
Do you take the sub? do you like it, what mg do they started you out on? Isnt sub an opiate as well? just a smaller dose? I will do some research. THANKS EVERYONE
Lyn

Actually I'm on methadone for pain and addiction.I take 370mgs a day and it works great for my pain and I don't use any other pills.I have been on opiate pain killers for 25 years with the last 3 on methadone.I have worked closely with my methadone doctor on methadone and recovery, so I try and lend a hand when I can.You must remember that detoxing off methadone is a very long process and if done properly with no withdrawls.Methadone is unlike any of the other opiates you have taken.It makes most of the other pain killers look like asprin.Buprenorphene is an exellent drug to use when your detoxing off methadone.Once your down to 40-30mgs a day of methadone then you can switch over to subutex or suboxone (both are buprenorphene).Detoxing from bup is easier then methadone with weaker withdrawls......Dave

The amount of Tylenol in the pills is tough on the liver. I vomited from it, as I was using it for 15 years or so. I would get stomach cramps and such from the need to put more into me. If you are sick when you wake up, and haven't taken any pills, it sounds like dopesickness, withdrawal. Please don't think I am preaching by saying this: You need never be sick from opiates again if you get them out of your life. The fear of getting through the sickness kept me from putting them down. I stopped finally when I wrecked my mom's car and had my ankle broken along with all the ligaments. I was arrested for a host of things. I took nothing for my foot but Advil and that was 2 years, 8 months and 1 day ago. I'm not anything bad, I'm an addict, and I'm alive. You deserve more, I know you do. Bless You!

lilred,i just have to say a huge congrats for what you have accomplished.i KNOW it was not easy,by any means,but you made it over that great big "wall".please give yourself a huge pat on the back along with one big a** hug from me,K?

pierce,I do believe we have chatted before like maybe last year?i just remember you when you mentioned the dispacher thing as I was a FF/Medic for 15 years when I ended up totally disabled due to having to have what is called a cavernoma removed from the inside of my spinal cord.now I live in hell everyday nowmuch much worse than when i was on the meds just for 'fun".i too was suffering from post partum depression when I became addicted and used the meds for the ani D effect as well.I do think there are alot of women who end up in this position for the same reason.I also was super mom on the lortab as well,and this was really the thing i hated the most when i went off.i felt just dead.my evergy was just gone.the thing is,after a while your energy DOES come back once your brain and you,get back on the same page.It wouldn't hurt you to go onto an anti D as you are coming off the pills,really.this helped me alot once I decided i needed some thing but didn't know just what,til my doc Dxed me with the post partum depression.I did not even realize I was depressed til he started asking me all the questions,go figure.I really really do think that both you and the hubby need to check out the sub option and you definitely need something for your depression.at least temporarily til your mind clears.and if you need it more long term,then stay on it.i have been on lexapro now for like a year and a half.my depression had cleard many years ago but came back like gangbusters when things hit the fan post op,and my life as i once knew it was just gone,totally gone.You CAN beat this,you just need the right motivation(which is right there inyour own home gooing and cooing by now??)and get your depression under some good control.you will feel bad for awhile mostly since your way of life will be changing and you will actually go through sort of a greiving process?sounds wierd but it does happen that way.but it WILL pass.just give it time and work through it and always keep that baby foremost in your mind and espescially when you are tempted to use.when that happens go spend some time with your motivation or distract yourself by doing something physical.that really helped me alot.
one thing i wanted to mention to you,besides the pain killing effect of the hydro,it is also a cough suppressant and is the main ingrediant in many different cough syrups.this could also be contributing to your horrid cough in the morning.but you DO need a full work up on your kidneys and liver,most definitely.also along with an actual ultrasound on those organs to REALLY see what is up.labs will only show out of norm once the actual damage hits a much more critical point,trust me on that.you need the US too.hopefully things are okay but you HAVE to see for sure.good luck hon and have a very merry christmas with your little family,K? hang in there.we ARE here.marcia

Marcia,
yeah I was on this board in 2003, thats when things were really out of hand and I was eating 20 to 25 a day. A short time after that I detoxed and was put on Naltrexone. That lasted 5 months. This time around I was eatnig no more than three a day. That lasted a few months, and here I am now a year and a half later, back up to between 5-10 a day depending.... I only took 1/2 yesterday. I dont have any for today, and dont really have the money to buy them anyway. I woke up with stomach pain, I have gotten up twice while writing this sucumbing to the throws of diahrrea....what a beautiful relationship Vicodin and I have, I think I like it more than it likes me (just kidding) I will keep you posted on how things go. Thanks for evrything!

LP,just wonderin how you are doing??please give me an update when you can,K? I do care.Marcia

LPierce- You said that your doctor only has you on 40mg of methadone for your addiction? I talked to a methadone clinic a couple of weeks ago and the doctor there told me that his average dosage for treatment is 80mg to 200mg a day! Sounds like you are being shorted on the methadone which explains why you are still having the desire to take more pills.

I am on 30mg for pain management and that is just my starting dose. It was my understanding that when using it as methadone maintenance for drug addiction that the doses are much higher than that.

Tina,
I dont honestly think she is getting her methadone from a clinic but a regular doctor.And a regular doctor cant prescribe a patient methadone for addiction purposes unless its an emergency and then I think they can only do 24hours worth.I wish it was different because I would love to get away from the clinic but I guess thats not to be.I am currently attending a methadone clinic due to an addiction to pain pills.I am also a chronic pain sufferer which is where my problems began..I can honestly say that since being on methadone even for maintenance that it really does help control my pain as well.I can take a few ibuprofens when it gets to hurting and I am fine.Ive been on MMT for almost 2years and as I said in an earlier post its been a life saver to me.I am currently on 100mg a day...Lp I hope that things are going well for you dear.You have been in my prayers....God bless and goodluck..

My family physician prescribes them to me, I have know him and his family for a while, I started on 40mgs a day but that lasted 12 days then he tapered

have you ever considered trying the sub? this really does seem to have a much higher succes rate than the methadone.just a thought.how are you doing now?marcia

I wasn't aware that regular doc's can't prescribe methadone for addiction? I thought that there had been a couple of people on this board that had their's prescribed by their primary or pain management docs... maybe I was wrong? Hmmmm....

LP - If the methadone is not working at that dosage, then have you tried getting hooked up with a clinic in your area?

I think alot of that depends on your own doc and the actual relationship you have with them really.i have heard of people on this board post at various times over the years about how their own docs are doing this for them vs having to have them go thru that whole clinic process.i don't think there really is any sort of actual law on this?But hey I could be wrong.I just have heard people here mention that they did their methadone program thru their primary docs.just something to consider.but if you could not actually manage the methadone yourself,this may noe the best idea either.I really do think that a sub doc may be your best shot right now.marcia

feel bad,
There is a law about this though at the moment I cant remember where to find it.Dave might know..Anyways it basically states that a regular doctor can NOT prescribe methadone for addiction purposes unless in an emergency and then only for a max. of 3 days..But I am sure there are doctors out there that are close with their patients and families that get around that rule by saying that he/she is treating the patient for chronic pain issues..In that instance it is okay for doctors to prescribe the methadone................briton