lseidman
01-04-2006, 11:35 PM
Well I have a terminal illness and was perscribed Durgestic (Fentanyl) 25 mcg/hr and had a rash and just overall didn't do anything for my pain.
I was given 15mg Morphine Sulfate Extended Release tablets to replace the Fentanyl and Oxycodone I was perscribed.
My problem: I took one tablet, and about an hour and 15mins later, I felt a terrible pain in my stomach, and could barely walk because the pain in my stomach was terrible and I thought I was going to the ER again.
Fortunately, 4 hours later the pain has died down...
Anyone know what may have caused this? How to prevent it? What i should do when the pain comes back?
Thanks in advanced!
I was given 15mg Morphine Sulfate Extended Release tablets to replace the Fentanyl and Oxycodone I was perscribed.
My problem: I took one tablet, and about an hour and 15mins later, I felt a terrible pain in my stomach, and could barely walk because the pain in my stomach was terrible and I thought I was going to the ER again.
Fortunately, 4 hours later the pain has died down...
Anyone know what may have caused this? How to prevent it? What i should do when the pain comes back?
Thanks in advanced!
Sponsor
catnap
01-05-2006, 01:11 PM
That stomach cramping is one of the many side effects from morphine. If you can tolerate the side effects until your body gets adjusted to the med, it might go away. But if not, you need to tell your pcp so he can change it to something else. The fentanyl patch has less side effects than morphine. The 25 mcq dose doesn't do much for anyone in bad pain. How long did you try to stay with it? Was the rash caused by the patch itself or the medicine in the patch. There are things you can do to prevent that.
Still you need to tell your doctor about any side effects the meds are causing.
Still you need to tell your doctor about any side effects the meds are causing.
lseidman
01-05-2006, 04:34 PM
That stomach cramping is one of the many side effects from morphine. If you can tolerate the side effects until your body gets adjusted to the med, it might go away. But if not, you need to tell your pcp so he can change it to something else. The fentanyl patch has less side effects than morphine. The 25 mcq dose doesn't do much for anyone in bad pain. How long did you try to stay with it? Was the rash caused by the patch itself or the medicine in the patch. There are things you can do to prevent that.
Still you need to tell your doctor about any side effects the meds are causing.
I was on the fentanyl patch for roughly 30 days and while I still had to take the oxycodone in addition to it, as I didn't feel it was helping and didn't want to go to the ER for Dilaudid, since they always perscribe me that stuff and works but very short acting.
An the pharmacist and doctor both thought I may be allergic to the glue thats on the patch, and also thought maybe a higher form of it may work, but I refused as I had to wait a full 30 days untill I could see the doctor and didn't want to take a chance again and be in agony taking 15MG oxycodone.
Still you need to tell your doctor about any side effects the meds are causing.
I was on the fentanyl patch for roughly 30 days and while I still had to take the oxycodone in addition to it, as I didn't feel it was helping and didn't want to go to the ER for Dilaudid, since they always perscribe me that stuff and works but very short acting.
An the pharmacist and doctor both thought I may be allergic to the glue thats on the patch, and also thought maybe a higher form of it may work, but I refused as I had to wait a full 30 days untill I could see the doctor and didn't want to take a chance again and be in agony taking 15MG oxycodone.
catnap
01-05-2006, 07:30 PM
I don't know what to tell you to do to stop the severe cramps. If you take something to coat your stomach you may stop the effects of the morphine also. I would be hesitate to take something that gives me the belly ache. I was like that with methadone. There was nothing I could do but cry and hurt until it stopped. I finally had to stop taking it and switch to something else.
I am so sorry you have a terminal illness.
Carol
I am so sorry you have a terminal illness.
Carol
Josie115
01-05-2006, 09:01 PM
I am so sorry to hear that you are sick, that your prognosis is so bad and you can't find anything that works for your pain. What a challenge to deal with. I have to say that I couldn't tolerate the stomach issues from the morphine, plus it didn't work. The patch has been a god send for me.
I am pretty sure that your doctor would get you the right dosing by trying one week at one level and then adding as you go..I know you have to go pick the script up and hand it over to the pharmacy but I've known others who have been able to move up the dose more quickly to get relief.
For me, I started rather high 75..72 hrs. Went to 150 after 30 days and cut it to 48 hrs. Was still not doing enough but it turned out to be the generice mylan brand and the sandoz works like a charm. It doesn't whack me out either. I had a rash a week or so ago for the first time from the adhesive..hadn't happened before. Hasn't happened since, but I know others here who have worked that problem out.
I sure hope you can find something that works. The stomach problems for me were just too much. Hated feeling that bad. Good luck and keep us posted.
I am pretty sure that your doctor would get you the right dosing by trying one week at one level and then adding as you go..I know you have to go pick the script up and hand it over to the pharmacy but I've known others who have been able to move up the dose more quickly to get relief.
For me, I started rather high 75..72 hrs. Went to 150 after 30 days and cut it to 48 hrs. Was still not doing enough but it turned out to be the generice mylan brand and the sandoz works like a charm. It doesn't whack me out either. I had a rash a week or so ago for the first time from the adhesive..hadn't happened before. Hasn't happened since, but I know others here who have worked that problem out.
I sure hope you can find something that works. The stomach problems for me were just too much. Hated feeling that bad. Good luck and keep us posted.
lseidman
01-05-2006, 09:33 PM
I don't know what to tell you to do to stop the severe cramps. If you take something to coat your stomach you may stop the effects of the morphine also. I would be hesitate to take something that gives me the belly ache. I was like that with methadone. There was nothing I could do but cry and hurt until it stopped. I finally had to stop taking it and switch to something else.
I am so sorry you have a terminal illness.
Carol
Darn, well I was also perscribed Bentyl 20MG for "numbing" the insides of my stomach and works and took it with the Morphine, but unfortunately took away the drugs effects for taking or helping pain.
Also thank you for your input, I really apperciate it!
I am so sorry you have a terminal illness.
Carol
Darn, well I was also perscribed Bentyl 20MG for "numbing" the insides of my stomach and works and took it with the Morphine, but unfortunately took away the drugs effects for taking or helping pain.
Also thank you for your input, I really apperciate it!
lseidman
01-05-2006, 11:27 PM
I am so sorry to hear that you are sick, that your prognosis is so bad and you can't find anything that works for your pain. What a challenge to deal with. I have to say that I couldn't tolerate the stomach issues from the morphine, plus it didn't work. The patch has been a god send for me.
I am pretty sure that your doctor would get you the right dosing by trying one week at one level and then adding as you go..I know you have to go pick the script up and hand it over to the pharmacy but I've known others who have been able to move up the dose more quickly to get relief.
For me, I started rather high 75..72 hrs. Went to 150 after 30 days and cut it to 48 hrs. Was still not doing enough but it turned out to be the generice mylan brand and the sandoz works like a charm. It doesn't whack me out either. I had a rash a week or so ago for the first time from the adhesive..hadn't happened before. Hasn't happened since, but I know others here who have worked that problem out.
I sure hope you can find something that works. The stomach problems for me were just too much. Hated feeling that bad. Good luck and keep us posted.
I am afraid to go back to the patch, as I am unsure if it will actually help. I have googled the patches and apparently people eat them and some rob you for them which I think is insane and I don't even know how to coment on that.
An would it be safe to tell my doctor maybe something higher in MG? I won't look like one of those drug abusers to him?
Thanks,
Lance
I am pretty sure that your doctor would get you the right dosing by trying one week at one level and then adding as you go..I know you have to go pick the script up and hand it over to the pharmacy but I've known others who have been able to move up the dose more quickly to get relief.
For me, I started rather high 75..72 hrs. Went to 150 after 30 days and cut it to 48 hrs. Was still not doing enough but it turned out to be the generice mylan brand and the sandoz works like a charm. It doesn't whack me out either. I had a rash a week or so ago for the first time from the adhesive..hadn't happened before. Hasn't happened since, but I know others here who have worked that problem out.
I sure hope you can find something that works. The stomach problems for me were just too much. Hated feeling that bad. Good luck and keep us posted.
I am afraid to go back to the patch, as I am unsure if it will actually help. I have googled the patches and apparently people eat them and some rob you for them which I think is insane and I don't even know how to coment on that.
An would it be safe to tell my doctor maybe something higher in MG? I won't look like one of those drug abusers to him?
Thanks,
Lance
Josie115
01-06-2006, 08:04 AM
Lance.. I think any good doctor treating you for a terminal illness and the resulting pain would not be concerned with you letting them know that has been prescribed isn't doing the job. You have been started on the very very lowest and I don't know what sort of pain one would have that a 25 would even touch, but no.. I think letting your doctor know that you are miserable and you need to be able to get through the day, do what you can manage to do and enjoy some of what life has left for you.
The reason for pain management for end of life treatment is to make you comfortable to enjoy and have good days and be comfortable. Talk to your doctor. Let him/her know what you are hoping to be able to do, how you'd like to feel..in other words.. not so sick to your stomach that you can't eat or go out..or not "drugged up"..fuzzy mind..but just a comfort level that enables you to do a few of the things you'd like to do.
Doctors have good reason to fear drug seekers. They usually can spot one from far off... there are addicts that will find a way to abuse anything out there and the patch is just one they have found to do that with. Any form of narcotic pain medicine will be desirable to an addict. Everyone who takes a narcotic needs to be aware of their surroundings when leaving a pharmacy, careful with their meds and where they put them, etc. Yes, there has been abuse of the patch with people who scrape all the medicine off and eat it or something..(I can't imagine)..but if there is a way to get a high..they will do it. They do it with oxycontin more often than any other med out there I think..(abuse it).
Just sit down and have a heart to heart with your doctor. Let him/her know that you feel concerned about having to wait so long to change doses if necessary..that the .25 didn't do anything, that the current meds are not working and ask for their help/opinion, advice etc. You don't need to tell them what milligram or type of med you want...that's their job to do what you need..they are the ones who should know what might work and be willing to try whatever it takes. Be honest and share your concerns. Let them help to solve your problems with pain and how you want to live...
The reason for pain management for end of life treatment is to make you comfortable to enjoy and have good days and be comfortable. Talk to your doctor. Let him/her know what you are hoping to be able to do, how you'd like to feel..in other words.. not so sick to your stomach that you can't eat or go out..or not "drugged up"..fuzzy mind..but just a comfort level that enables you to do a few of the things you'd like to do.
Doctors have good reason to fear drug seekers. They usually can spot one from far off... there are addicts that will find a way to abuse anything out there and the patch is just one they have found to do that with. Any form of narcotic pain medicine will be desirable to an addict. Everyone who takes a narcotic needs to be aware of their surroundings when leaving a pharmacy, careful with their meds and where they put them, etc. Yes, there has been abuse of the patch with people who scrape all the medicine off and eat it or something..(I can't imagine)..but if there is a way to get a high..they will do it. They do it with oxycontin more often than any other med out there I think..(abuse it).
Just sit down and have a heart to heart with your doctor. Let him/her know that you feel concerned about having to wait so long to change doses if necessary..that the .25 didn't do anything, that the current meds are not working and ask for their help/opinion, advice etc. You don't need to tell them what milligram or type of med you want...that's their job to do what you need..they are the ones who should know what might work and be willing to try whatever it takes. Be honest and share your concerns. Let them help to solve your problems with pain and how you want to live...
lseidman
01-06-2006, 11:13 AM
Lance.. I think any good doctor treating you for a terminal illness and the resulting pain would not be concerned with you letting them know that has been prescribed isn't doing the job. You have been started on the very very lowest and I don't know what sort of pain one would have that a 25 would even touch, but no.. I think letting your doctor know that you are miserable and you need to be able to get through the day, do what you can manage to do and enjoy some of what life has left for you.
The reason for pain management for end of life treatment is to make you comfortable to enjoy and have good days and be comfortable. Talk to your doctor. Let him/her know what you are hoping to be able to do, how you'd like to feel..in other words.. not so sick to your stomach that you can't eat or go out..or not "drugged up"..fuzzy mind..but just a comfort level that enables you to do a few of the things you'd like to do.
Doctors have good reason to fear drug seekers. They usually can spot one from far off... there are addicts that will find a way to abuse anything out there and the patch is just one they have found to do that with. Any form of narcotic pain medicine will be desirable to an addict. Everyone who takes a narcotic needs to be aware of their surroundings when leaving a pharmacy, careful with their meds and where they put them, etc. Yes, there has been abuse of the patch with people who scrape all the medicine off and eat it or something..(I can't imagine)..but if there is a way to get a high..they will do it. They do it with oxycontin more often than any other med out there I think..(abuse it).
Just sit down and have a heart to heart with your doctor. Let him/her know that you feel concerned about having to wait so long to change doses if necessary..that the .25 didn't do anything, that the current meds are not working and ask for their help/opinion, advice etc. You don't need to tell them what milligram or type of med you want...that's their job to do what you need..they are the ones who should know what might work and be willing to try whatever it takes. Be honest and share your concerns. Let them help to solve your problems with pain and how you want to live...
This is my second doctor for Pain Management for my illness I have gone to. The first one was perscribing me Ultram and Vicodin ES (15MG), which did absolutely nothing for me and it took the ER to tell me for my condition this would be like taking weak asprin, and I think maybe asprin would have been stronger since I ended up in the ER again the day my doctor perscribed the ultram and vicodin and refused to try me on any other medicines. So the hospital perscribed me Dilaudid 8mg tablets and suggested as time progresses and swallowing a pill will be much harder, that I get something called Acitq which as the ER doc said tastes like raspberry to disguise the terrible taste and is a sucker that helps those with cancer.
I am scared to ask my fairly new pain management doctor for this medicine as I don't know much about it or have heard anything and again don't want to look like a drug abuser because I can't afford not to get pain releif. I mean I am not going to be around for all that long and my ER doctor said "in your condition you know, I don't think you should be worried about becoming addicted to your medications." but I feel as if my current doctor(s) don't see it like that doctor.
Is my ER doctor right to say that to me? I mean I do not want to be addicted to anything, I don't want to go out like that and have seen those HBO episodes of people becoming addicted to these medicines and going to rehab, which is scary. I can't physically go to a rehab if I am addicted to these medicines because I have special treatments I have and meds to help "slow" down my illness which I don't think they can give me in a rehab?
I also have taken the morphine a couple times now and no longer get the terrible stomach pain, but also don't get any releif from it either. Is this a sign I am addicted? I also have a liver and pancreas problem, could this make it so my medicines don't work?
Anyways, I really apperciate your time and concern on this issue. I am deeply grateful to you and everyone else.
Thank you,
Lance
The reason for pain management for end of life treatment is to make you comfortable to enjoy and have good days and be comfortable. Talk to your doctor. Let him/her know what you are hoping to be able to do, how you'd like to feel..in other words.. not so sick to your stomach that you can't eat or go out..or not "drugged up"..fuzzy mind..but just a comfort level that enables you to do a few of the things you'd like to do.
Doctors have good reason to fear drug seekers. They usually can spot one from far off... there are addicts that will find a way to abuse anything out there and the patch is just one they have found to do that with. Any form of narcotic pain medicine will be desirable to an addict. Everyone who takes a narcotic needs to be aware of their surroundings when leaving a pharmacy, careful with their meds and where they put them, etc. Yes, there has been abuse of the patch with people who scrape all the medicine off and eat it or something..(I can't imagine)..but if there is a way to get a high..they will do it. They do it with oxycontin more often than any other med out there I think..(abuse it).
Just sit down and have a heart to heart with your doctor. Let him/her know that you feel concerned about having to wait so long to change doses if necessary..that the .25 didn't do anything, that the current meds are not working and ask for their help/opinion, advice etc. You don't need to tell them what milligram or type of med you want...that's their job to do what you need..they are the ones who should know what might work and be willing to try whatever it takes. Be honest and share your concerns. Let them help to solve your problems with pain and how you want to live...
This is my second doctor for Pain Management for my illness I have gone to. The first one was perscribing me Ultram and Vicodin ES (15MG), which did absolutely nothing for me and it took the ER to tell me for my condition this would be like taking weak asprin, and I think maybe asprin would have been stronger since I ended up in the ER again the day my doctor perscribed the ultram and vicodin and refused to try me on any other medicines. So the hospital perscribed me Dilaudid 8mg tablets and suggested as time progresses and swallowing a pill will be much harder, that I get something called Acitq which as the ER doc said tastes like raspberry to disguise the terrible taste and is a sucker that helps those with cancer.
I am scared to ask my fairly new pain management doctor for this medicine as I don't know much about it or have heard anything and again don't want to look like a drug abuser because I can't afford not to get pain releif. I mean I am not going to be around for all that long and my ER doctor said "in your condition you know, I don't think you should be worried about becoming addicted to your medications." but I feel as if my current doctor(s) don't see it like that doctor.
Is my ER doctor right to say that to me? I mean I do not want to be addicted to anything, I don't want to go out like that and have seen those HBO episodes of people becoming addicted to these medicines and going to rehab, which is scary. I can't physically go to a rehab if I am addicted to these medicines because I have special treatments I have and meds to help "slow" down my illness which I don't think they can give me in a rehab?
I also have taken the morphine a couple times now and no longer get the terrible stomach pain, but also don't get any releif from it either. Is this a sign I am addicted? I also have a liver and pancreas problem, could this make it so my medicines don't work?
Anyways, I really apperciate your time and concern on this issue. I am deeply grateful to you and everyone else.
Thank you,
Lance
Josie115
01-06-2006, 09:24 PM
Lance..
What you are saying about your pain managment doctor doesn't make any sense to me at all. You are under the care of at least one or two oncologists, primary care docs, or other doctor treating you for cancer treatments correct? Did one of them refer you to the pain managment doctor? If so, they need to explain to the pain managment doctors why you are there. This doesn't make sense.
People who have chronic pain, whether it's from a terminal illness or other chronic condition will become "dependent" on their pain medications. The goal of "pain management" is to provide you with enough relief from the pain to get through the day, do some of the activities you are able to do and be comfortable. Becoming dependent is very different than addicted to them. Addicts will take a prescription and then abuse it. They will want more and more because they are trying to get high. Pain relief isn't the reason they are taking this stuff. Whole different set of issues.
Finding a way to be comfortable is the goal of good pain managment, particularly for those who are terminally ill. One of the reasons the patch works for patients who need more relief is that it does not put the extra strain on the liver and kidneys. Being absorbed through the skin, transdermal application is good for avoiding the stomach issues, etc. The actiq is fentanyl.. the same stuff in the patch, but in a sucker. It allows for an additional, quicker "bump" of pain control. The patches take up to 17 hrs. to become fully into your system and then lasts for up to 48 and for some 72 hrs. Due to that timing, if you are having additional pain while on the patch, using the sucker gives you just enough extra help to take care of things..quickly and for a shorter duration. The dosage can go very high so it's a good method for severe pain.
The ER doctors are correct. I have no idea why you'd be getting concerned about needing to get into rehab if you get "hooked" on the pain medications. If I may ask, what is your prognosis? You are undergoing treatment, I'm assuming you are no longer looking at surgical or medical remissions or control or cure. If that is the case, why would your pain management doctors not be working with your primary care doctors on coordinating all care? Has anyone suggested hospice care? That program is fantastic for assisting patients with all their needs of treatment, pain control, psycological needs, physical needs etc. Their belief in pain management is wonderful. Why would anyone want to be in horrible pain if it can be managed and controlled?
I'm really sorry that you are not getting the right help. I guess I don't understand what is going on and can't figure out why you are in a pain managment situation like this. Maybe you could share additional information..no need to, but what you are saying doesn't sound like the right approach to your pain... hope you are finding some help in feeling better..maybe an aspirin would work??? :)
What you are saying about your pain managment doctor doesn't make any sense to me at all. You are under the care of at least one or two oncologists, primary care docs, or other doctor treating you for cancer treatments correct? Did one of them refer you to the pain managment doctor? If so, they need to explain to the pain managment doctors why you are there. This doesn't make sense.
People who have chronic pain, whether it's from a terminal illness or other chronic condition will become "dependent" on their pain medications. The goal of "pain management" is to provide you with enough relief from the pain to get through the day, do some of the activities you are able to do and be comfortable. Becoming dependent is very different than addicted to them. Addicts will take a prescription and then abuse it. They will want more and more because they are trying to get high. Pain relief isn't the reason they are taking this stuff. Whole different set of issues.
Finding a way to be comfortable is the goal of good pain managment, particularly for those who are terminally ill. One of the reasons the patch works for patients who need more relief is that it does not put the extra strain on the liver and kidneys. Being absorbed through the skin, transdermal application is good for avoiding the stomach issues, etc. The actiq is fentanyl.. the same stuff in the patch, but in a sucker. It allows for an additional, quicker "bump" of pain control. The patches take up to 17 hrs. to become fully into your system and then lasts for up to 48 and for some 72 hrs. Due to that timing, if you are having additional pain while on the patch, using the sucker gives you just enough extra help to take care of things..quickly and for a shorter duration. The dosage can go very high so it's a good method for severe pain.
The ER doctors are correct. I have no idea why you'd be getting concerned about needing to get into rehab if you get "hooked" on the pain medications. If I may ask, what is your prognosis? You are undergoing treatment, I'm assuming you are no longer looking at surgical or medical remissions or control or cure. If that is the case, why would your pain management doctors not be working with your primary care doctors on coordinating all care? Has anyone suggested hospice care? That program is fantastic for assisting patients with all their needs of treatment, pain control, psycological needs, physical needs etc. Their belief in pain management is wonderful. Why would anyone want to be in horrible pain if it can be managed and controlled?
I'm really sorry that you are not getting the right help. I guess I don't understand what is going on and can't figure out why you are in a pain managment situation like this. Maybe you could share additional information..no need to, but what you are saying doesn't sound like the right approach to your pain... hope you are finding some help in feeling better..maybe an aspirin would work??? :)
lseidman
01-06-2006, 09:59 PM
Lance..
What you are saying about your pain managment doctor doesn't make any sense to me at all. You are under the care of at least one or two oncologists, primary care docs, or other doctor treating you for cancer treatments correct? Did one of them refer you to the pain managment doctor? If so, they need to explain to the pain managment doctors why you are there. This doesn't make sense.
People who have chronic pain, whether it's from a terminal illness or other chronic condition will become "dependent" on their pain medications. The goal of "pain management" is to provide you with enough relief from the pain to get through the day, do some of the activities you are able to do and be comfortable. Becoming dependent is very different than addicted to them. Addicts will take a prescription and then abuse it. They will want more and more because they are trying to get high. Pain relief isn't the reason they are taking this stuff. Whole different set of issues.
Finding a way to be comfortable is the goal of good pain managment, particularly for those who are terminally ill. One of the reasons the patch works for patients who need more relief is that it does not put the extra strain on the liver and kidneys. Being absorbed through the skin, transdermal application is good for avoiding the stomach issues, etc. The actiq is fentanyl.. the same stuff in the patch, but in a sucker. It allows for an additional, quicker "bump" of pain control. The patches take up to 17 hrs. to become fully into your system and then lasts for up to 48 and for some 72 hrs. Due to that timing, if you are having additional pain while on the patch, using the sucker gives you just enough extra help to take care of things..quickly and for a shorter duration. The dosage can go very high so it's a good method for severe pain.
The ER doctors are correct. I have no idea why you'd be getting concerned about needing to get into rehab if you get "hooked" on the pain medications. If I may ask, what is your prognosis? You are undergoing treatment, I'm assuming you are no longer looking at surgical or medical remissions or control or cure. If that is the case, why would your pain management doctors not be working with your primary care doctors on coordinating all care? Has anyone suggested hospice care? That program is fantastic for assisting patients with all their needs of treatment, pain control, psycological needs, physical needs etc. Their belief in pain management is wonderful. Why would anyone want to be in horrible pain if it can be managed and controlled?
I'm really sorry that you are not getting the right help. I guess I don't understand what is going on and can't figure out why you are in a pain managment situation like this. Maybe you could share additional information..no need to, but what you are saying doesn't sound like the right approach to your pain... hope you are finding some help in feeling better..maybe an aspirin would work??? :)
Hello,
I currently see a Internal Medicine doctor (primary physician) and under the care of only 1 oncologist with the Pain Management doctor for my pain meds (my doctors will not perscribe additional medicine since I go to a Pain mangement doctor) and my Internal med doctor refered me to the Pain mangement doctor(s). An my doctor (internal med) had to send xrays, CT Scans, blood work and various other tests I have gone through to my Pain management doctor, which is how I got accepted/taken in as a patient.
An I am being treated for non hodgkins lymphoma and have been told I have roughly 6-7 years and "possible to outlive this expiration" and when I heard that from my doctor, the word expiration... I felt like I was a glass of milk that needed to be consumed or else I was going to no longer be good.
Also my doctor went over hospice that I could use in the years or even months to come if I come to be worse. However I am not sure I want this, I would rather have my life ended then be at a point were im too weak to take care of myself and someone has to help me. I know this sounds bad, but I just don't think I could do that.
In addition to my cancer, I have pancreatitis and a fatty liver and recently recovered from colon cancer (almost 8 months). I hope this kind of helps to let you know what else is going on.
I really apperciate you replying, it gives me a new outlook on how crumby Nevada doctors are. It may be because of the malpractice insurance is so low in nevada, but by the time I could sue them, I would no longer be here.
Thank you again,
Lance
What you are saying about your pain managment doctor doesn't make any sense to me at all. You are under the care of at least one or two oncologists, primary care docs, or other doctor treating you for cancer treatments correct? Did one of them refer you to the pain managment doctor? If so, they need to explain to the pain managment doctors why you are there. This doesn't make sense.
People who have chronic pain, whether it's from a terminal illness or other chronic condition will become "dependent" on their pain medications. The goal of "pain management" is to provide you with enough relief from the pain to get through the day, do some of the activities you are able to do and be comfortable. Becoming dependent is very different than addicted to them. Addicts will take a prescription and then abuse it. They will want more and more because they are trying to get high. Pain relief isn't the reason they are taking this stuff. Whole different set of issues.
Finding a way to be comfortable is the goal of good pain managment, particularly for those who are terminally ill. One of the reasons the patch works for patients who need more relief is that it does not put the extra strain on the liver and kidneys. Being absorbed through the skin, transdermal application is good for avoiding the stomach issues, etc. The actiq is fentanyl.. the same stuff in the patch, but in a sucker. It allows for an additional, quicker "bump" of pain control. The patches take up to 17 hrs. to become fully into your system and then lasts for up to 48 and for some 72 hrs. Due to that timing, if you are having additional pain while on the patch, using the sucker gives you just enough extra help to take care of things..quickly and for a shorter duration. The dosage can go very high so it's a good method for severe pain.
The ER doctors are correct. I have no idea why you'd be getting concerned about needing to get into rehab if you get "hooked" on the pain medications. If I may ask, what is your prognosis? You are undergoing treatment, I'm assuming you are no longer looking at surgical or medical remissions or control or cure. If that is the case, why would your pain management doctors not be working with your primary care doctors on coordinating all care? Has anyone suggested hospice care? That program is fantastic for assisting patients with all their needs of treatment, pain control, psycological needs, physical needs etc. Their belief in pain management is wonderful. Why would anyone want to be in horrible pain if it can be managed and controlled?
I'm really sorry that you are not getting the right help. I guess I don't understand what is going on and can't figure out why you are in a pain managment situation like this. Maybe you could share additional information..no need to, but what you are saying doesn't sound like the right approach to your pain... hope you are finding some help in feeling better..maybe an aspirin would work??? :)
Hello,
I currently see a Internal Medicine doctor (primary physician) and under the care of only 1 oncologist with the Pain Management doctor for my pain meds (my doctors will not perscribe additional medicine since I go to a Pain mangement doctor) and my Internal med doctor refered me to the Pain mangement doctor(s). An my doctor (internal med) had to send xrays, CT Scans, blood work and various other tests I have gone through to my Pain management doctor, which is how I got accepted/taken in as a patient.
An I am being treated for non hodgkins lymphoma and have been told I have roughly 6-7 years and "possible to outlive this expiration" and when I heard that from my doctor, the word expiration... I felt like I was a glass of milk that needed to be consumed or else I was going to no longer be good.
Also my doctor went over hospice that I could use in the years or even months to come if I come to be worse. However I am not sure I want this, I would rather have my life ended then be at a point were im too weak to take care of myself and someone has to help me. I know this sounds bad, but I just don't think I could do that.
In addition to my cancer, I have pancreatitis and a fatty liver and recently recovered from colon cancer (almost 8 months). I hope this kind of helps to let you know what else is going on.
I really apperciate you replying, it gives me a new outlook on how crumby Nevada doctors are. It may be because of the malpractice insurance is so low in nevada, but by the time I could sue them, I would no longer be here.
Thank you again,
Lance
catnap
01-06-2006, 10:26 PM
Lance,
Josie is right about the fentanyl patch and lollipop. Don't be afraid to ask you pcp about anything. I hope you can try them again. I also had an allergy to the glue around the patch edge. I had to change them every 48 hrs. instead of 72 hrs. Most of the people I have heard from that are using the patch do change every 48 hrs.
It took me about a month or so to become adjusted and get the serum level built up. I would prefer the patch over a pill any day.
Are you still trying to take the morphine? I had a good friend with lung cancer. She was prescribed morphine for her pain. She told me she hated to take it because she felt like a "doper." I told her it was a drug to treat a disease like any other drug to treat any other disease. I asked would she feel that way if she were prescribed an antibiotic. Of course not! We have a disease called pain that is treated with a drug associated with criminal behavior. If it didn't have a street value it wouldn't have the association.
I hope this will help,
Carol
Josie is right about the fentanyl patch and lollipop. Don't be afraid to ask you pcp about anything. I hope you can try them again. I also had an allergy to the glue around the patch edge. I had to change them every 48 hrs. instead of 72 hrs. Most of the people I have heard from that are using the patch do change every 48 hrs.
It took me about a month or so to become adjusted and get the serum level built up. I would prefer the patch over a pill any day.
Are you still trying to take the morphine? I had a good friend with lung cancer. She was prescribed morphine for her pain. She told me she hated to take it because she felt like a "doper." I told her it was a drug to treat a disease like any other drug to treat any other disease. I asked would she feel that way if she were prescribed an antibiotic. Of course not! We have a disease called pain that is treated with a drug associated with criminal behavior. If it didn't have a street value it wouldn't have the association.
I hope this will help,
Carol
lseidman
01-06-2006, 10:36 PM
Lance,
Josie is right about the fentanyl patch and lollipop. Don't be afraid to ask you pcp about anything. I hope you can try them again. I also had an allergy to the glue around the patch edge. I had to change them every 48 hrs. instead of 72 hrs. Most of the people I have heard from that are using the patch do change every 48 hrs.
It took me about a month or so to become adjusted and get the serum level built up. I would prefer the patch over a pill any day.
Are you still trying to take the morphine?
I hope this will help,
Carol
I am still trying to take the morphine. I feel very ill but don't have any pain relief from it either. An I hate having to keep trying new meds, I am sure my doctor hates to perscribe new stuffi as well.
I am not sure how my doctor would be if I asked to go back on the patch at a higher MG.
Thank you,
Lance
Josie is right about the fentanyl patch and lollipop. Don't be afraid to ask you pcp about anything. I hope you can try them again. I also had an allergy to the glue around the patch edge. I had to change them every 48 hrs. instead of 72 hrs. Most of the people I have heard from that are using the patch do change every 48 hrs.
It took me about a month or so to become adjusted and get the serum level built up. I would prefer the patch over a pill any day.
Are you still trying to take the morphine?
I hope this will help,
Carol
I am still trying to take the morphine. I feel very ill but don't have any pain relief from it either. An I hate having to keep trying new meds, I am sure my doctor hates to perscribe new stuffi as well.
I am not sure how my doctor would be if I asked to go back on the patch at a higher MG.
Thank you,
Lance
daisy-mae
01-06-2006, 10:38 PM
Can anyone help me im tryin to make a new post?
Fibbles
01-06-2006, 11:23 PM
Go into the main topic (Pain Management) and click new thread.
Hi, I don't have cancer, but my doctor is giving me morphine for my pain. Mine is caused by a bone and joint disease I was born with, but we don't know what it is, so the only thing we can do is treat the symptoms.
When I saw my first PM Dr., I was given a 30mcg Duragesic patch. I was under the impression that the dose was rather high, especially since the only opiods I had been given in the past were 30 day supplies of either Codeine or Percocet and nothing for long term use. She felt I needed something strong based on my pain level. The Fentanyl made me itch intensly on and around where I placed it and it kept falling off my oily skin. I was then given the choice of Morphine or Oxycontin. I chose Morphine and will never switch to anything else unless I absolutely have to. I've been taking it for three and a half years, and have increased from 30mg to 60mg and then, to the 90mg I've been on for the past 3 years (mines a 24 hour time release called Avinza).
I've never thought of Morphine or other pain medicines as anything other than medicine. If you're taking it for a legitamate reason, there's no rehab needed - just a taper until you no longer need it. Nor should there be a worry of addiction. My ex-best friend is an addict. He used to love getting narcotics and taking them for the high, not the pain relief they bring. He went from Hydrocodone to Percocet, then to stealing Morphine and anything he can get his hands on. I've had to sever our relationship because he only wants me for my medicines. He's always been the kind of person to take any medication for the "side effects" and to change the way he feels.
Hi, I don't have cancer, but my doctor is giving me morphine for my pain. Mine is caused by a bone and joint disease I was born with, but we don't know what it is, so the only thing we can do is treat the symptoms.
When I saw my first PM Dr., I was given a 30mcg Duragesic patch. I was under the impression that the dose was rather high, especially since the only opiods I had been given in the past were 30 day supplies of either Codeine or Percocet and nothing for long term use. She felt I needed something strong based on my pain level. The Fentanyl made me itch intensly on and around where I placed it and it kept falling off my oily skin. I was then given the choice of Morphine or Oxycontin. I chose Morphine and will never switch to anything else unless I absolutely have to. I've been taking it for three and a half years, and have increased from 30mg to 60mg and then, to the 90mg I've been on for the past 3 years (mines a 24 hour time release called Avinza).
I've never thought of Morphine or other pain medicines as anything other than medicine. If you're taking it for a legitamate reason, there's no rehab needed - just a taper until you no longer need it. Nor should there be a worry of addiction. My ex-best friend is an addict. He used to love getting narcotics and taking them for the high, not the pain relief they bring. He went from Hydrocodone to Percocet, then to stealing Morphine and anything he can get his hands on. I've had to sever our relationship because he only wants me for my medicines. He's always been the kind of person to take any medication for the "side effects" and to change the way he feels.
lseidman
01-07-2006, 12:34 AM
Go into the main topic (Pain Management) and click new thread.
Hi, I don't have cancer, but my doctor is giving me morphine for my pain. Mine is caused by a bone and joint disease I was born with, but we don't know what it is, so the only thing we can do is treat the symptoms.
When I saw my first PM Dr., I was given a 30mcg Duragesic patch. I was under the impression that the dose was rather high, especially since the only opiods I had been given in the past were 30 day supplies of either Codeine or Percocet and nothing for long term use. She felt I needed something strong based on my pain level. The Fentanyl made me itch intensly on and around where I placed it and it kept falling off my oily skin. I was then given the choice of Morphine or Oxycontin. I chose Morphine and will never switch to anything else unless I absolutely have to. I've been taking it for three and a half years, and have increased from 30mg to 60mg and then, to the 90mg I've been on for the past 3 years (mines a 24 hour time release called Avinza).
I've never thought of Morphine or other pain medicines as anything other than medicine. If you're taking it for a legitamate reason, there's no rehab needed - just a taper until you no longer need it. Nor should there be a worry of addiction. My ex-best friend is an addict. He used to love getting narcotics and taking them for the high, not the pain relief they bring. He went from Hydrocodone to Percocet, then to stealing Morphine and anything he can get his hands on. I've had to sever our relationship because he only wants me for my medicines. He's always been the kind of person to take any medication for the "side effects" and to change the way he feels.
I have a morphine called ERTAB Endo Pharm and supposedly a 12-hour med, but perscribed to me for every 6 hours.
The fentanyl patch I had wasn't itchy, just became red around the patch and just didn't work. Also I feel my reason for taking these medications is pretty legitimate, or I would assume it is as I don't think they would perscribe these medicines to me?
Also I just have read that these meds are highly addictive, and even with a legitimate reason, I would and do still fear addiction but have read that it's probably not likely for me and i would be dependent and not addicted.
An my uncle was a drug addict, an I guess because of him and how he died... Scares me and I don't want to become what he was. However he took a bottle of 30 of the oxycontin 160mg and apparently swalloed two of these fentanyl patches. Obviously he was out of his mind, and I don't wish to become like that.
Hi, I don't have cancer, but my doctor is giving me morphine for my pain. Mine is caused by a bone and joint disease I was born with, but we don't know what it is, so the only thing we can do is treat the symptoms.
When I saw my first PM Dr., I was given a 30mcg Duragesic patch. I was under the impression that the dose was rather high, especially since the only opiods I had been given in the past were 30 day supplies of either Codeine or Percocet and nothing for long term use. She felt I needed something strong based on my pain level. The Fentanyl made me itch intensly on and around where I placed it and it kept falling off my oily skin. I was then given the choice of Morphine or Oxycontin. I chose Morphine and will never switch to anything else unless I absolutely have to. I've been taking it for three and a half years, and have increased from 30mg to 60mg and then, to the 90mg I've been on for the past 3 years (mines a 24 hour time release called Avinza).
I've never thought of Morphine or other pain medicines as anything other than medicine. If you're taking it for a legitamate reason, there's no rehab needed - just a taper until you no longer need it. Nor should there be a worry of addiction. My ex-best friend is an addict. He used to love getting narcotics and taking them for the high, not the pain relief they bring. He went from Hydrocodone to Percocet, then to stealing Morphine and anything he can get his hands on. I've had to sever our relationship because he only wants me for my medicines. He's always been the kind of person to take any medication for the "side effects" and to change the way he feels.
I have a morphine called ERTAB Endo Pharm and supposedly a 12-hour med, but perscribed to me for every 6 hours.
The fentanyl patch I had wasn't itchy, just became red around the patch and just didn't work. Also I feel my reason for taking these medications is pretty legitimate, or I would assume it is as I don't think they would perscribe these medicines to me?
Also I just have read that these meds are highly addictive, and even with a legitimate reason, I would and do still fear addiction but have read that it's probably not likely for me and i would be dependent and not addicted.
An my uncle was a drug addict, an I guess because of him and how he died... Scares me and I don't want to become what he was. However he took a bottle of 30 of the oxycontin 160mg and apparently swalloed two of these fentanyl patches. Obviously he was out of his mind, and I don't wish to become like that.
Josie115
01-07-2006, 08:52 AM
Thank you for the additional information on your condition. I've had friends with non-hodgkins and I've had cancer..fortunately for me the cancer was treated surgically and I should be good to go! But, I also have diabetes. I take medicine for it and eventually the meds will increase as this disease is chronic. I take pain meds for bone and joint problems and I think of it much the same as the meds for my diabetes..just more meds. I don't like it, but I work, I'm productive, and active. That is how I want to live me life. For me, after trying Avinza and other morphine drugs and a host of others for years, the patch at this dose is working. Would I prefer to not need them..heck yes!
Hopefully you can learn about the whole pain management world from some of these great folks that live with chronic pain daily. With non-hodgkins and your other health issues, you probably won't escape the need for the additional pain medications but hopefully.. you will be able to develop a good relationship with your pain management doctor. I firmly believe that you need to be as informed as you can possibly be in this day and age in health care and you need to be as much as a "partner" in making decisions about your care. Your doctors can only work with what you help them know about you. Pain is such a subjective thing. One may have incredible pain with a small tiny problem..another will have relatively no pain with a terrible injury/illness. It's just the way it is. We are each different and you are the only one who can help your doctor relate to what you need.
I'm not pushing the use of the patch, but it can be a very good solution for some patients. Any drug you end up with using..and most find that it takes months and sometimes years to find what type and what dose works. It then becomes an on-going program of managing your doses..usually it's a combination of meds that once you find it, works. Your pain managment doctor should know all of this. They are specialists in this field, however..some pain management docs are better than others. Some feel that narcotics aren't "their" prefered method. You will need to determine if your pm doc is doing the best for YOU.
You can have many many many good years ahead of you. Finding a way to live comfortably, not suffer, and be able to enjoy doing things you enjoy doing should be your goal. Arm yourself with knowledge..make sure the doctors working for YOU are doing the job YOU want them to do. Unless you've had addictive problems or tendencies in your past, you have a ways to go before you get comfortable with the right meds. Just hang in there and keep trying.
Hopefully you can learn about the whole pain management world from some of these great folks that live with chronic pain daily. With non-hodgkins and your other health issues, you probably won't escape the need for the additional pain medications but hopefully.. you will be able to develop a good relationship with your pain management doctor. I firmly believe that you need to be as informed as you can possibly be in this day and age in health care and you need to be as much as a "partner" in making decisions about your care. Your doctors can only work with what you help them know about you. Pain is such a subjective thing. One may have incredible pain with a small tiny problem..another will have relatively no pain with a terrible injury/illness. It's just the way it is. We are each different and you are the only one who can help your doctor relate to what you need.
I'm not pushing the use of the patch, but it can be a very good solution for some patients. Any drug you end up with using..and most find that it takes months and sometimes years to find what type and what dose works. It then becomes an on-going program of managing your doses..usually it's a combination of meds that once you find it, works. Your pain managment doctor should know all of this. They are specialists in this field, however..some pain management docs are better than others. Some feel that narcotics aren't "their" prefered method. You will need to determine if your pm doc is doing the best for YOU.
You can have many many many good years ahead of you. Finding a way to live comfortably, not suffer, and be able to enjoy doing things you enjoy doing should be your goal. Arm yourself with knowledge..make sure the doctors working for YOU are doing the job YOU want them to do. Unless you've had addictive problems or tendencies in your past, you have a ways to go before you get comfortable with the right meds. Just hang in there and keep trying.
catnap
01-07-2006, 05:48 PM
I feel very ill but don't have any pain relief from it either. An I hate having to keep trying new meds, I am sure my doctor hates to perscribe new stuffi as well.
I am not sure how my doctor would be if I asked to go back on the patch at a higher MG.
Lance,
You need to let your pcp know that you are still in pain and that your med is making you very sick. He does understand very well about having to keep trying new meds. That's all part of the practice. I'm willing to bet he would be very surprised if you didn't need a change. There are other reasons for having to change meds; tolerance, or the side effects just get to be more than you can handle. If he gets upset that would be a red flag that you need to look for a new doctor.
There is a lot of information on these chronic pain websites to help you understand pain management and pain medicine. If might help you to read the physician's and the patient's pamplet that comes with your med.
At two times I had to switch back and forth from Duragesic to Methadone for financial reasons. My doc didn't get upset about it.
I hope you can get some relief soon.
Carol
I am not sure how my doctor would be if I asked to go back on the patch at a higher MG.
Lance,
You need to let your pcp know that you are still in pain and that your med is making you very sick. He does understand very well about having to keep trying new meds. That's all part of the practice. I'm willing to bet he would be very surprised if you didn't need a change. There are other reasons for having to change meds; tolerance, or the side effects just get to be more than you can handle. If he gets upset that would be a red flag that you need to look for a new doctor.
There is a lot of information on these chronic pain websites to help you understand pain management and pain medicine. If might help you to read the physician's and the patient's pamplet that comes with your med.
At two times I had to switch back and forth from Duragesic to Methadone for financial reasons. My doc didn't get upset about it.
I hope you can get some relief soon.
Carol
conductor
01-07-2006, 07:01 PM
To those who have posted on this thread:
I wish this particular thread could be archived in some way to show people how helpful posts should look!
Lance, you have received great advice and other feedback on this thread. And, you have asked valid questions along with keenly articulating your fears with understandable, precise language. We all feel for you and want you to continue keeping us updated.
Catnap, Josie115, and the others (I don't mean to leave anyone out)...You all have given great answers and important commentaries. One of the points I wholeheartedly believe in is the difference between "dependence" and "addiction"! It is NOT just a matter of semantics. People who are addicts will pursue a course of behavior to obtain medication--no matter what the personal cost eventually becomes--just to feel the euphoric side-effects that some people experience when taking opiates. (I take high doses of several opiates and have yet to experience anything that makes me feel "euphoric").
Nonetheless, this particular thread is an excellent example of how this board should work! Maybe one of the moderators can find a way to use this thread as a teaching tool for our on-line community. Thank you!
Sincerely,
Jon (Conductor)
I wish this particular thread could be archived in some way to show people how helpful posts should look!
Lance, you have received great advice and other feedback on this thread. And, you have asked valid questions along with keenly articulating your fears with understandable, precise language. We all feel for you and want you to continue keeping us updated.
Catnap, Josie115, and the others (I don't mean to leave anyone out)...You all have given great answers and important commentaries. One of the points I wholeheartedly believe in is the difference between "dependence" and "addiction"! It is NOT just a matter of semantics. People who are addicts will pursue a course of behavior to obtain medication--no matter what the personal cost eventually becomes--just to feel the euphoric side-effects that some people experience when taking opiates. (I take high doses of several opiates and have yet to experience anything that makes me feel "euphoric").
Nonetheless, this particular thread is an excellent example of how this board should work! Maybe one of the moderators can find a way to use this thread as a teaching tool for our on-line community. Thank you!
Sincerely,
Jon (Conductor)
catnap
01-07-2006, 07:28 PM
Thanks Jon. And Lance do keep coming back asking any questions you might have. I have been on several pain boards and find that I like the people on this board better than any of the others as well as the format. A lot of us are on here off and on all day most every day. Several days may go by that I don't even turn my computer on, but when I do I always come here first. I will do the best I can to try and help.
Carol
Carol