catnap
01-07-2006, 06:28 PM
I just read in the physician's pamplet that all doses of Avinza are intended to be administered once daily. Avinza should not be given more frequently than every 24 hours.
This is not what I have been reading on almost every one of the Avinza posts. I am at 360 mgs. daily and take it q 8hrs. Everyone else is taking their dose 2 and 3 times daily too. I was not titrated over properly from my other opiate either, but that is on another post. I know it doesn't last 24 hours either. Why don't the docs go along with what the pharmaceutical people tell them.
Any opinions?
This is not what I have been reading on almost every one of the Avinza posts. I am at 360 mgs. daily and take it q 8hrs. Everyone else is taking their dose 2 and 3 times daily too. I was not titrated over properly from my other opiate either, but that is on another post. I know it doesn't last 24 hours either. Why don't the docs go along with what the pharmaceutical people tell them.
Any opinions?
Sponsor
Shoreline
01-07-2006, 07:39 PM
Hi catnap, When the docs listen to the manufacturer you hav thousands of people suffering between 12 hour doses of oxyContin, just as you would suffer the last 6 hours of each dose of avinza.
I used Kadian TID and I was glad my doc used his experience and logic rather than relying on the claim the manufacturer makes to gaurentee their patent wont be infringed on and can keep similar products off the market for a decade +. With Avinza's 24 hour claim, no other company will be develping a 24 hour morphine capsule for at least 7 years more likely 11. So I hope you know that's about $700 bucks in avinza you take monthly and consider that before making any changes that might effect your prescription benfits.
The idea behind more frequent dosing is that when one pill is wearing off you still have the other 2 doses in your system working. The ntire dose taken at one time doesn't wear slam off, hours before your next dose is due. You will also achieve steady serum levels within a couple days if you dose at the same time every day. I can't believe you would critisize your doc and the other PM docs that actually work with the people that use these meds for years and believe their patient when they say a 12 hour med only lasts 8 and a 24 hour med only last 16?
Better be careful what you ask for, your next PM doc may not be as knowledgable and only prescribe the way the brand name manufacturer lawyers recomend.
My sarcasm is really meant to be funny, not directed at you. If you do happen to loose insurance, you won't be taking any LA opiate. not at that dose and I lived it for the last 3 years. So an industry that has two lobbyist for every congressman and senetor in Washington, which happens to be more than steel, oil and agriculture have combined. What you read on that piece of paper is financially, legally and politically motivated. Purdue can step away from any incedent where the doctor prescribed more frequently than they recomend. Politicians can stand by their manufacturer and say way to point the finger at the evil doc that over prescribes. There are lots of reasons for the discrepency you pointed out if you look into it long enough.
Purdue did everything in its power, including refusing any patients prescription writen in any ofther way than BID "12 hour" dosing for OxyContin in their patient assistance program. They effectively kept generics off the market and set the outragous prices for meds that cost pennies per Kilo of raw material. Their first claim that had the first generic recalled back in 2000 because they claimed that the other generics were too close to their product. They eventuall lost oin both ponts of their case, the second was the assertion they were not close enough in effect "duration, strength, similar bioviability "the technical stuff" to be granted generic status. Purdue eventually lost but they had one product by endo removed from he slf and we had no alternative to use the name brand if y could afford it for at least 4 years.
They still have their propriatary drug on the market, blocked all others from entering the LA oxy market and made billions on OxyC because it was the only LA oxy product available based on it's 12 hour claim to faim. Have you used OxyC twice a day without BT meds? Or Avinza once a day?Talk about a roller coaster and when it wears off it wears off.
The question should be how do they make these claims? How do patients involved in clinical trials come up with very different results. It's simple, They used rescue medication to bridge the gap between doses. The rescue medication that Purdue is also the owner of 23 pateneted drugs, OxyIR and Oxyfas because they had the amazing idea to make a mg pill without apap. Wow!!! The putting oxy in a liquid idea, another brainstorm there that deserved that patent and Propriatory rights for a decade, keeing other Co's not so devoted to R&D out of the market .
Purdue's doc info even recommended using their name brand only OxyIR or OxyFast for the BT pain that always occurs between the 8th and 12th hour of OxyC use. A state prosucuttor did have them remove recomending their own Propriatary drugs " short acting oxycodone products" from the prescribing info when a law suite was brought against Purdue.
Do ya really want meds dispensed the way the patent attorneys think is the best way to prevent free competition. There is nothing new about morphine or oxycodone or extended release syetems. Contact cough and cold came out in the 70"s, a 12 or 24 hour extended release verzion. The patent for the "Contin" delivery system was developed in 1972 an bought by Purdue prior to MSContin hitting the market in '84. Another drug "morphine" that's been around 150+ years that suddely sells for 20X it's short acting price. An equal dose of OxyC to your Avinza would cost about 700 bucks too.
Much to learn Grasshopper.
Good luck.
Dave
I used Kadian TID and I was glad my doc used his experience and logic rather than relying on the claim the manufacturer makes to gaurentee their patent wont be infringed on and can keep similar products off the market for a decade +. With Avinza's 24 hour claim, no other company will be develping a 24 hour morphine capsule for at least 7 years more likely 11. So I hope you know that's about $700 bucks in avinza you take monthly and consider that before making any changes that might effect your prescription benfits.
The idea behind more frequent dosing is that when one pill is wearing off you still have the other 2 doses in your system working. The ntire dose taken at one time doesn't wear slam off, hours before your next dose is due. You will also achieve steady serum levels within a couple days if you dose at the same time every day. I can't believe you would critisize your doc and the other PM docs that actually work with the people that use these meds for years and believe their patient when they say a 12 hour med only lasts 8 and a 24 hour med only last 16?
Better be careful what you ask for, your next PM doc may not be as knowledgable and only prescribe the way the brand name manufacturer lawyers recomend.
My sarcasm is really meant to be funny, not directed at you. If you do happen to loose insurance, you won't be taking any LA opiate. not at that dose and I lived it for the last 3 years. So an industry that has two lobbyist for every congressman and senetor in Washington, which happens to be more than steel, oil and agriculture have combined. What you read on that piece of paper is financially, legally and politically motivated. Purdue can step away from any incedent where the doctor prescribed more frequently than they recomend. Politicians can stand by their manufacturer and say way to point the finger at the evil doc that over prescribes. There are lots of reasons for the discrepency you pointed out if you look into it long enough.
Purdue did everything in its power, including refusing any patients prescription writen in any ofther way than BID "12 hour" dosing for OxyContin in their patient assistance program. They effectively kept generics off the market and set the outragous prices for meds that cost pennies per Kilo of raw material. Their first claim that had the first generic recalled back in 2000 because they claimed that the other generics were too close to their product. They eventuall lost oin both ponts of their case, the second was the assertion they were not close enough in effect "duration, strength, similar bioviability "the technical stuff" to be granted generic status. Purdue eventually lost but they had one product by endo removed from he slf and we had no alternative to use the name brand if y could afford it for at least 4 years.
They still have their propriatary drug on the market, blocked all others from entering the LA oxy market and made billions on OxyC because it was the only LA oxy product available based on it's 12 hour claim to faim. Have you used OxyC twice a day without BT meds? Or Avinza once a day?Talk about a roller coaster and when it wears off it wears off.
The question should be how do they make these claims? How do patients involved in clinical trials come up with very different results. It's simple, They used rescue medication to bridge the gap between doses. The rescue medication that Purdue is also the owner of 23 pateneted drugs, OxyIR and Oxyfas because they had the amazing idea to make a mg pill without apap. Wow!!! The putting oxy in a liquid idea, another brainstorm there that deserved that patent and Propriatory rights for a decade, keeing other Co's not so devoted to R&D out of the market .
Purdue's doc info even recommended using their name brand only OxyIR or OxyFast for the BT pain that always occurs between the 8th and 12th hour of OxyC use. A state prosucuttor did have them remove recomending their own Propriatary drugs " short acting oxycodone products" from the prescribing info when a law suite was brought against Purdue.
Do ya really want meds dispensed the way the patent attorneys think is the best way to prevent free competition. There is nothing new about morphine or oxycodone or extended release syetems. Contact cough and cold came out in the 70"s, a 12 or 24 hour extended release verzion. The patent for the "Contin" delivery system was developed in 1972 an bought by Purdue prior to MSContin hitting the market in '84. Another drug "morphine" that's been around 150+ years that suddely sells for 20X it's short acting price. An equal dose of OxyC to your Avinza would cost about 700 bucks too.
Much to learn Grasshopper.
Good luck.
Dave
catnap
01-08-2006, 12:02 AM
The idea behind more frequent dosing is that when one pill is wearing off you still have the other 2 doses in your system working. The ntire dose taken at one time doesn't wear slam off, hours before your next dose is due. You will also achieve steady serum levels within a couple days if you dose at the same time every day. I can't believe you would critisize your doc and the other PM docs that actually work with the people that use these meds for years and believe their patient when they say a 12 hour med only lasts 8 and a 24 hour med only last 16?
Shore, I understand why docs are prescribing 8 hrs. as opposed to 24 hrs. I took ms contin way back in 1999 and suffered until the next dose. So I was aware of the possibility that it would not go the full 24 hrs. for me. No critizism toward the doctor for the way he prescribed it last week 120 mgs. q8 hr.
I was just wondering if anyone was taking it that way and explaining where I got the information from.
As far as the cost of the Avinza at $700.00. My Duragesic prescription was a whopping $1,000.41 for one month's supply. So I have gotten cheaper for them by changing.
Better be careful what you ask for, your next PM doc may not be as knowledgable and only prescribe the way the brand name manufacturer lawyers recomend.
If my doc had gone the way the manufacturer recommended in switching over to a different opiate, I would have not gone into withdrawal. For 2 years I was at a dose of 449 mgs. When he switched me over he prescribed 120 mgs. a day. If I had not had the extra methadone on hand from a previous prescription I would have had to gone in to the hospital. The manufacturers recommend giving 1/2 of the previous 24 hr. drug with 1/2 of the new dose titrating the new drug up while titrating the old drug down. I am sure you are familiar with this and maybe even lucky enough to have had a good doc do this for you. Maybe you had one like I did and suffered, I don't know. But I am surely critizising him for that. And yes I did have to use Avinza twice a day because the following week he increased the dose to 2 times a day. I pretty much had two weeks of HELL!
I do know how much these drugs cost. I took ms contin 2 months and paid for it out of my pocket. I developed a rash and could not take it or afford it. After being on Medicare since 1998 and having no prescription coverage I have had a lot of research to do to find one I could afford or get on one of the patient assistance programs to be able to get the drug. That was one of the reasons I had to switch from duragesic to methadone a couple of times. My doc's office dropped the ball on getting my assistance reapplication back in on time to Janssen to get the medicine and I had to switch to methadone because I could afford to pay out of my pocket for that one. I can now relax and be where a lot of other people have been because of Medicare Part D kicking in. I now have a choice and very grateful for it.
Much to learn Grasshopper? Not.
Carol
P.S. Don't get me started on lawyers. I worked for several of the &&*$$&&!! for 20 years and learned to dislike them very much.
Shore, I understand why docs are prescribing 8 hrs. as opposed to 24 hrs. I took ms contin way back in 1999 and suffered until the next dose. So I was aware of the possibility that it would not go the full 24 hrs. for me. No critizism toward the doctor for the way he prescribed it last week 120 mgs. q8 hr.
I was just wondering if anyone was taking it that way and explaining where I got the information from.
As far as the cost of the Avinza at $700.00. My Duragesic prescription was a whopping $1,000.41 for one month's supply. So I have gotten cheaper for them by changing.
Better be careful what you ask for, your next PM doc may not be as knowledgable and only prescribe the way the brand name manufacturer lawyers recomend.
If my doc had gone the way the manufacturer recommended in switching over to a different opiate, I would have not gone into withdrawal. For 2 years I was at a dose of 449 mgs. When he switched me over he prescribed 120 mgs. a day. If I had not had the extra methadone on hand from a previous prescription I would have had to gone in to the hospital. The manufacturers recommend giving 1/2 of the previous 24 hr. drug with 1/2 of the new dose titrating the new drug up while titrating the old drug down. I am sure you are familiar with this and maybe even lucky enough to have had a good doc do this for you. Maybe you had one like I did and suffered, I don't know. But I am surely critizising him for that. And yes I did have to use Avinza twice a day because the following week he increased the dose to 2 times a day. I pretty much had two weeks of HELL!
I do know how much these drugs cost. I took ms contin 2 months and paid for it out of my pocket. I developed a rash and could not take it or afford it. After being on Medicare since 1998 and having no prescription coverage I have had a lot of research to do to find one I could afford or get on one of the patient assistance programs to be able to get the drug. That was one of the reasons I had to switch from duragesic to methadone a couple of times. My doc's office dropped the ball on getting my assistance reapplication back in on time to Janssen to get the medicine and I had to switch to methadone because I could afford to pay out of my pocket for that one. I can now relax and be where a lot of other people have been because of Medicare Part D kicking in. I now have a choice and very grateful for it.
Much to learn Grasshopper? Not.
Carol
P.S. Don't get me started on lawyers. I worked for several of the &&*$$&&!! for 20 years and learned to dislike them very much.
Shoreline
01-08-2006, 09:19 AM
I know it doesn't last 24 hours either. Why don't the docs go along with what the pharmaceutical people tell them.
Any opinions?
If you know it doesn't last 24 hours, why would you want your doc to follow the manufacturers' prescrbing info on Avinza or any other med that makes a false claim of extended duration? :confused:
Any opinions?
If you know it doesn't last 24 hours, why would you want your doc to follow the manufacturers' prescrbing info on Avinza or any other med that makes a false claim of extended duration? :confused:
catnap
01-08-2006, 11:40 AM
When I asked why the doctors did not go along with what the manufacturers tell them to do, was not what I meant to ask. I didn't actually want to get opinions on the manufacturers and why doctors don't follow all of their advise. I apologize for the brain fog.
I thought I made it a little more clear in the other post wherein I said:
Shore, I understand why docs are prescribing 8 hrs. as opposed to 24 hrs. I took ms contin way back in 1999 and suffered until the next dose. So I was aware of the possibility that it would not go the full 24 hrs. for me. No critizism toward the doctor for the way he prescribed it last week 120 mgs. q8 hr.
I was just wondering if anyone was taking it that way and explaining where I got the information from.
Well I will be more precise. The doctors are treating us for chronic pain in so many different ways. Some doctors follow manufacturer's advise and actually titrate the patient up to a dose until they get relief and other doctors merely give a dose stating that should be enough for their condition. Some will follow manufacturer's advise in titrating a patient over to another opiate/opioid properly and some don't. Some will give break through meds like the manufacturer's advise, some won't.
So what I meant to ask was if most or all of our doctors prescribe it for q 8 hrs, q 12 hrs, are there any doctors that have prescribed a full dose q 24 hrs, like the manufacturer's advise? Have any of you ever been prescribed your daily dose to be taken once a day?
You keep asking why would I want..... I didn't say I want in any sentence in my post. As far as wanting any false claims? People in high places make false claims everyday. Who wants someone to do that? Vioxx (spelling?) My dad took that and passed away on Jan. 13th, 2 years ago from a cardiac arrest.
I thought I made it a little more clear in the other post wherein I said:
Shore, I understand why docs are prescribing 8 hrs. as opposed to 24 hrs. I took ms contin way back in 1999 and suffered until the next dose. So I was aware of the possibility that it would not go the full 24 hrs. for me. No critizism toward the doctor for the way he prescribed it last week 120 mgs. q8 hr.
I was just wondering if anyone was taking it that way and explaining where I got the information from.
Well I will be more precise. The doctors are treating us for chronic pain in so many different ways. Some doctors follow manufacturer's advise and actually titrate the patient up to a dose until they get relief and other doctors merely give a dose stating that should be enough for their condition. Some will follow manufacturer's advise in titrating a patient over to another opiate/opioid properly and some don't. Some will give break through meds like the manufacturer's advise, some won't.
So what I meant to ask was if most or all of our doctors prescribe it for q 8 hrs, q 12 hrs, are there any doctors that have prescribed a full dose q 24 hrs, like the manufacturer's advise? Have any of you ever been prescribed your daily dose to be taken once a day?
You keep asking why would I want..... I didn't say I want in any sentence in my post. As far as wanting any false claims? People in high places make false claims everyday. Who wants someone to do that? Vioxx (spelling?) My dad took that and passed away on Jan. 13th, 2 years ago from a cardiac arrest.