Hey All,

Have any of you ever heard of or experienced the symptoms of a panic attack without feeling any panic or fear? I know that sounds bizarre but that's exactly what this all feels like for me in this relapse today. Each attack I've been getting is producing most of the head symptoms of such an attack only in this case there is no increase in heart rate, perspiration nor do I feel like I am about to die (lol) and there is zero fear. But the other stuff is there such as heavy head, heavy-duty disorientation, surreal-detached view of the world. And today I had tingling in my extremeties which I experienced 2 years ago when I did have severe full blown panic attacks with fear and heavy emotional feelings. Each attack leaves me feeling depleted further in terms of surrealism and general disorientation. Almost all attacks are precipitated by trying to fix my vision on ANY computer screen now. It's like my sensitivity is increasing. I had a few attacks in New Zealand too, but in all cases things cleared up and normalised within 24 hours.

At any rate, I'm now thinking the quick fix is to up the SSRI to smother this sucker which means I can look forward to feeling like a passionless zombie again - brilliant. It now appears to be the smartest thing to do considering I can see a link to panic (without the panic!) and likely explains (for me anyway) why the SSRI works so well. if i didn't have a deadline looming I'd try and ride this out by staying off PC screens for a week or something but there's just no time.

Another thing that has crystallised in my head is that since starting to drink caffeinated coffee again (early December), this thing has slowly taken hold of me. It correlates perfectly with the onset as I had a few weird things happen prior to my NZ holiday and that's when I reintroduced caffeine on a daily basis (one cup). Then the combination of some new screens, alcohol, excitement, new location, daily caffeine, not to mention the occasional cigarette with my Dad (I know that's shocking) must have blown the lid off of this. Guess I just pushed the envelope too much (again).

So looks like I need to be super careful now in the future if I ever want to be off this medication. What a bizarre illness. What is life without enjoying a killer cup of coffee? What a drag. Bring on the decaf again or better yet - chamomile.

Any thoughts on the attacks without panic/fear feelings would be great to hear.

Scott :eek:

Hi Scott,

If you are saying that you are feeling all these symptoms but not any fear or panic associated with them then I would say yes you can have anxiety symptoms but not actually be mentally feeling anxious. I often wonder about this myself because I feel like this 24/7 with the exception of the tingliness (never had that) and at the same time not feel depressed or anxious. I often wonder if it is just symptoms related to the vesbular system problem which in turn effects the nervious system. I also think with time we learn to live with these problems and cope better which I believe is what you are doing.

Secondly, I'd like to say cigarettes are a no :nono: with any vestibular or sinus problem. I read this somewhere when I first came down with my sinus infection (dr thinks I had one but I disagree with them as I never had sinus pain) that lead to the ear infection. I read somewhere that even second-hand smoke can irritate the e-tubes and sinuses and cause problems. The reason I remember this is because my sister is a heavy smoker and my nephew from birth has had continuous problems with his ears and sinuses. He even had his adnoids taken out 2 years ago. She also has a woodburning fireplace that she uses regularly. I've tried over and over to reason with her about this issue and the link to her son as I feel so bad he has to live in that environment.

I was visiting her which I don't go to her house that often because of her smoking as I always feel sick after leaving there (before the ear problem too). My family got together two Sundays ago and when I left her house I felt really ill and had a horrible sore throat that went away by the next day; however, 3 -4 days latter is when I ended up with this horrible cold. Can't help thinking her house with all that bad air caused this.

Can't say if there is a direct link to the caffine or not. I'm not a big caffine drinker (hate coffee) but I do have a coke every once in awhile. I tried totally eliminating caffine from my diet including chocolate :eek: for a about a month and then had some and there was no difference for me. Now a friend of mine cannnot drink cafffine at all because he gets really bad headaches the next day.


I guess to answer your main question, I always feel these symptoms but when the depression and anxiety kicks in (my fear is not dying but having to live like this forever) that is when I feel vulnerable and spend my day crying and panicing and posting negatively to this board like the a few days ago. I still feel awful with this cold but am coping now and not so anxious.

I'd hate to see you up that ssri again as it seems to cause you so many problems when trying to come off it. I know you have a lot going on in school, do you think this stress could be contributing to it? I know you are against benzos, but maybe a very low doseage of klonepin would help you without uping your ssri. I really believe it has helped me and you and Subs both posted something by Dr. Hain that supports the usage of a small doseage of klonepin. It seems we both are sensative to meds and the klonepin did not cause any side effects for me at all. Maybe it would help your dizzys. Howie's taking a small doseage too and has said himself that he has improved over the past 2 years and remains steady.

I guess in the long run you know yourself the best and should do what you think you need to do to make it through this. I do know being in these moods we are not always in the right frame of mind and hope you can think all this throughly before making your decision.

I hope I answered some of your question and I really hope you kick this thing 100% one of these days real soon.

Take care of yourself - Gloria

Hi Scott

Bad---show---I know...but u will get it back on track---shortly....looks from the list of stuff...u been doing...u had a heck of a time

....the panic...without fear...etc...is just ur "Limbic" system in action and

......the cognitive centers of ur "Cortex"...moderating a full boor...Limbic....event....not all that unusual...for a lot of people....with or without this junk.

...i.e., ur unconscious and age old brain(Limbic)...on which the consious...brain("Cortex")...has...very few controls...has some...but...there are....

...more neural connection going up----from the Limbic emotional centerers to the cognitive centerers of the cortex.....then from the cortex.....down to the Limbic

.....so the Cortex.....doesn't have much of a chance...to crank in to the equation...any...common sense...but in ur case...sounds like some is getting through.....also not unusual....but

...since....the wiring of the brain favors emotion---the connections from the emotional systems to the cognitive systems are stronger therefore

...conscious control over the Limbic system is weak, and it often pushes out thinking....whereas thinking fights a mainly losing battle to banish...the limbic...inputs...

Got to love this suff.....

:cool:

Hi Scott

Bad---show---I know...but u will get it back on track---shortly....looks from the list of stuff...u been doing...u had a heck of a time

....the panic...without fear...etc...is just ur "Limbic" system in action and

......the cognitive centers of ur "Cortex"...moderating a full boor...Limbic....event....not all that unusual...for a lot of people....with or without this junk.

...i.e., ur unconscious and age old brain(Limbic)...on which the consious...brain("Cortex")...has...very few controls...has some...but...there are....

...more neural connection going up----from the Limbic emotional centerers to the cognitive centerers of the cortex.....then from the cortex.....down to the Limbic

.....so the Cortex.....doesn't have much of a chance...to crank in to the equation...any...common sense...but in ur case...sounds like some is getting through.....also not unusual....but

...since....the wiring of the brain favors emotion---the connections from the emotional systems to the cognitive systems are stronger therefore

...conscious control over the Limbic system is weak, and it often pushes out thinking....whereas thinking fights a mainly losing battle to banish...the limbic...inputs...

Got to love this suff.....

:cool:

Scott

Forgot to include an example...

..."......the cognitive centers of ur "Cortex"...moderating a full boor...Limbic....event....not all that unusual...for a lot of people....with or without this junk."....

The one that I am the most familiar with is the Navy SEAL's...while u can not turn off the Limbic system...since...it is unconscious...action taking place...SEAL's are "conditioned" through training and experience...to...moderate...its influence....u want them to be ready to spring/attack/defend, etc, i.e.,

.......their brain---aroused, attentive & focused...all the things the Limbic...system brings about....but...with the emotional part....dampened/moderated.....

U get that by training/experience/practice...which conditions the Cortex to moderate...the influence...of the Limbic system(can't totally control it)...so u get a "Thinking State of Panic"----of "Ready to Go" & "Ready to Stay"....so to speak....i.e.,

..."a panic attack without feeling any panic or fear?"...

The benefit of that is....all of the bodies system are on "Go Alert"...but u can think...through....the actions/events....without the emotional part...screwing it up!!

Just forgot to include...the example....is all

:cool:

When my symptoms worsen, I too get anxious/panicky. It's not really a full blown panic attack, but I sure do get very uncomfortable and afraid. It's very odd because my thoughts are clear and yet my body insists on doing its own thing. And it's something that cannot be willed away. (God knows I've tried.)
I'm on zoloft which I find very helpful. Instead of upping your zoloft I would pop a valium just to get over an episode. I do that and it really helps alot. In fact, sometimes it breaks the cycle. If you take a valium just for those times, you won't become addicted to them. It doesn't remain in your system for long. You might want to try it.

Lynda

Hi Gloria - thanks for the words and yup, I know the ciggies are really not good, in fact, they're deadly. H*ll, I'm a nutritionist/glycemic index man and shouldn't be doing any of that suff but it was holiday time, I was having fun hanging out with my Dad and out came the smokes (and coffee and booze - lol). At any rate, I've killed all the bad habits and don't plan on returning...the price is too high thanks all the same. Guess I thought I was well enough to go all out over the hols but should have taken the warning signs far more seriously. Another hard lesson learned. I upped the SSRI last night to 2/3 (from 1/2) and think I will also use the occasional benzo to ride this through. I just need to get this visual garbage under control. At the moment it feels like a horse bucking madly in a corral and so long as that's going on, there's no way my eyes can fix on anything for too long. I've had enough.

Subs - BRILLIANT info - thanks. That's precisely what this feels like - my body is in panic mode and yet I am able to think clearly through it without the intense emotion and subsequent emotional crashes (ie. depression episodes) as I did in June and when this thing began (causing me to enter the world of an anxiety disorder). Didn't know there was a science behind this or that it was trained in the SEALs in this way. Furthermore, I have always wondered why you never seemed to lose the plot with anxiety even in the early stages (from your descriptions). I figured the wiring that was thrown out of whack in you was not so directly linked with your sympathetic nervous system...but I think it's because you were trained to handle bigtime stress and not flip out - just a conditioning you learned when you were younger - which obviously paid off in spades getting through this junk. It's obvious that in any military setting, an emotional response to the fear would likely cost you your life, particularly if the frontal lobe is cut off as apparently happens when people start fretting and the adrenalin hits the roof - memory goes down the drain, can't make correct decisions etc. Good stuff - gives me a much better idea of what to do about this. This is the first time in my life I haven't had the emotional response to the "panic" state - crazy stuff.

Hi Lynda - think I'll take your advice today and hit this with 2.5 mg of valium for a few days straight to silence the conflicting eye-ear info that has been so stirred again. Thanks.

Scott :cool:

Hi Scott - I hope the increase in SSRI works for you without any side effects. I fully can relate to the vision stuff. All year I really struggled with that; I don't know what was worse the tinnitus or vision. I am happy to say that the vision has greatly improved for me in the month of December (still a little off but not that noticeable and sometimes not at all). I don't know if it was the increase in klonepin or the visual vrt exercises, but something helped. Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I know how you feel with the vision and really sympathsize with you.

Keep me posted on how your feeling. How is your dad by the way after his accident? Is he getting by in his home?

Hi Subs - That was a very informative post. I read it at first and had a hard time understanding and once you posted the example, I reread it and everything clicked and made sense. It really made sense in my case. As Scott pointed out, I often wondered in reading your old posts why you always seemed so calm and collective. I guess the research you provided is proof in your case with your background (training). Kind of like the example you gave me before with an ice skater learning to spin and their brain becomes conditioned to that movement and therefore they are no longer dizzy when they do it because it is a set pattern in their brain.
Good information.

Take care - Gloria