I know there are a gazillion threads on here about detoxing, etc. I've read through tons of them, but just curious what pple find as the simplest yet most productive methods? I'm just not sure where to start bc there is so much information...any thoughts??
01-30-2006, 02:46 PM
ok, after i wrote that I felt like I should elaborate a little bit lol.
I haven't really done anything to detox, and have had lyme for about 4 months now. I literally feel like I can feel the toxins throughout my body and whether it's mental or physical, would love to just flush everything out in hopes to get some relief (I feel like the nausea and aches have gotten so much worse).
I drink tons of water everyday, but am guessing that's not enough. I'm just scared to do any type of detoxing that isn't lyme specific and might be hard on my body, considering it's already going through so much. And, I'm not a big fan of baths...I would prefer to do something through eating/drinking, is that possible or do you need both to be effective? Any thoughts would be great...I just want to get this stuff out!!
01-30-2006, 03:01 PM
I have only known about lyme for 5 months, before that i was a takeaway every night, rubbish eating coke swiggling person.
however since reading up about Lyme i relaised i was helping whats swimming around in my blood.AND! i was helping the exist.
Now i have realy become adverse to anything that doesnt hold anything thats good for me.
I sort of brian washed my self by studying Lyme. Good brain wash though. :D
I think the old rule of meat and 2 veg.
5 helpings of colourfull foods a day, is a good way to go.
theres also vit tabs and herbals you can take. Someone will come along and let you have those.
I think the best way to help your self is to treat our bodies how your suppossed to. I figure we wouldnt dare put parafin in are cars, its an ignitable fuel but its not petrol.
( did that make sense :eek: )
01-30-2006, 03:06 PM
Hey Jules, that does make sense, I'm sitting here sipping a diet coke as we speak :-/ I've done so much research on Lyme since I was diagnosed, but I guess I honestly didn't put much stock in how a diet coke here, or a few alcoholic drinks there, etc. could actually affect my recovery or how I'm feeling. Now that it's been dragging on this long and I can feel the affects of the toxins in my muscles, etc., I want to do everything I can to not add to the mess. Do you really think you felt different after giving up unhealthy foods?? Thnx for your thoughts Jules.
In general, I'd love to also do one of the few day programs, etc. that flushes everything out. I kind of feel like starting with the eating healthy now is a little too late bc there is so many toxins already in me. If that makes any sense lol, has anyone tried anything they've had success with or that their doc has recommended?
01-30-2006, 03:16 PM
Oh ashmarie its never to late.
Although you may get reactions form changing quickly.
Years ago i was proud as i dont drink and i dont smoke , peopel used to ask me why?
I would say because im proud of the pure blood i have flowing through my viewns.
So much for that as Lymies been here long! time.
Another thing that brought it home to me was the detox bath.
i could not belive that by having a detox bath i could get what was in my bath into my blood through my skin!!???
to me that was crazy.
It brought home of how instant something you do can have an impact.
Place a clove of garlic between your toes and in ten minutes you will taste it.
Nefore all this i had no ideal how delicate my body was, i took it for granted, i may not of drank and i may not of smoked, but i starved it of what it needed to thrive, Yet i feed my plants baby bio.
Doesnt make sense once i saw the light.
Once i stopped constant take aways i felt lighter in heaviness inside ( not wieght)
and i think my brain freed up a little more.
im waffling now so sorry
Jules xx :wave:
01-30-2006, 06:36 PM
The best body cleanse I know of that doesn't involve a bath or a sauna is the Master Longevity Body Cleanse by Dr. Jernigan, p. 246 in his Beating Lyme Book. (good for a Lyme body) I have done it for 3 days, Sleeperwoken did it for 7 days, and I know of a person who did it for 21 days -whew! I am ready to start it again sometime end of Feb., hoping to make 7 days this time.
Diet Soda's can be worse than the sugar ones because aspartane stays in the brain - doesn't seem to flush out. That's scary.
Changing your diet will change how you feel. Just go slowly, make sure you are drinking pure, filtered water. Several posts on that on the board right now also.
does that help?
01-30-2006, 07:46 PM
I joined a health club that had a sauna and did it for a few weeks straight. No affect on me.
I tried doing a detox bath for 30 days straight. No affect on me.
I tried fasting but I only did it half heartedly. I didn't notice any difference.
I try to drink loads of water. I can't tell a difference between when I'm good and diligent with the water and when I stink at it and I drink Diet Coke all day.
There's a lot of other detox methods folks have tried: drinking lemon juice, colon cleansing pills, etc. I was too sick to care about trying those so I never did. Hopefully some of them will chime in and give some good suggestions.
01-31-2006, 05:50 AM
Looking back on the 6 months when my brain fog lifted enough for me to figure out what to do. Reading, reading, researching, here and elsewhere. Doing what made sense to me. Everybody's journey is different. I'm feeling a whole lot better these days, and the caveat is that I was not as sick as some folks here. Here's what I've done, detox-wise, or better living wise:
-Drink lots and lots of water (now adding slices of organic lemon, which are yummy, and do taste better)
-Detox teas (Yogi teas: lemon/ginger, peach detox)
-Detox foot patches
-Aloe concentrate (Aloe master)
-Super milk thistle
-Detox baths (when I felt like I needed one)
-Got all the chemicals out of my personal products (soaps, hair, skin care)
-Getting the chemicals out of my home products (clothes, dishwashing, cleaning, etc)
-Water filter in the shower/tub
-Whole Foods - eating more organic foods, fruits, vegetables
-Sea salt (replacing table salt)
-rest when you need to
-sleep, sleep, sleep
During that 6 months, there were times I felt quite toxic (herxing?). Just a few weeks ago, my neck pain had reached a crescendo. And then, it lifted. I went for a hike on Saturday (not a big one) and wasn't wipe out that day, or the next, or the next. That's also a good indication for me. My brain is working better, not 100% there, but better. That's encouraging. Sleep has always been a problem for me. It seems that I've now given myself permission to sleep. The messages you tell yourself are important as well.
Changing your lifestyle takes time, but I'm beginning to see the benefits pay off. You have to do what makes sense to you. It doesn't happen over night. I think that's the greatest message I've gotten. So, whatever you do, stick with it. And keep the faith. Doing all/any of these things are a step in the right direction. It can only help in the long run. I'm always thinking of adding things on. I feel this is only a start. And I've still got a long way to go!
Many many thanks to all of you for sharing your stories, and sharing your knowledge. I wouldn't be where I am without all of you!
01-31-2006, 07:56 AM
Does massages count as detoxing?? I hope so as it is so relaxing and if I'm detoxing at the same time wouldn't that be great! Went for a massage yesterday and feel better today. I decided to treat myself and scheduled 4 massages for 4 weeks in a row. YEAH........
I am also reading about the alkaline diet (see other thread) and think this is a key to changing body environment to one the bugs do not like. Not easy to do (most foods I eat are acidic except salads) but I am trying to integrate some of this in my diet. I plan on doing a cleanse sometime soon. I need to prepare myself and pick a time that will work. (some weddings and showers coming up).
Drinking water - need to do more.
I use aloe gel, adding to juice with green vibrance (green food in pwdr form) for a drink 2x a day.
Going to the gym 3x a week to work on rebuilding muscle strength. Got very, very weak (couldn't lift a water glass with one hand at one point). This is helping in several ways physical and mentally.
Still on the diflucan 50 days then 20 days abx (omnicef). Right now on day 11 of abx then back to diflucan for another go round.
That's my program for now. I'm starting with a new Dr in 2 weeks so maybe it will all change.
Have a great day all!
01-31-2006, 02:36 PM
Massages stimulate the lymph system - so they are a great way to detox (but be sure and drink lot's of water afterwards to flush out all that is being stirred up.)
02-01-2006, 02:57 PM
All of this info is sooo helpful!! Thank you so much! Anyone found a way to get massages, aka "physical therapy" covered by insurance? lol doubtful considering my doctor isn't even covered by it, but figured it was worth a shot :) i'm going to get started on some of these...
02-02-2006, 02:11 PM
Has anyone tried the foot cleanse baths? I recently attended a presentation by a chiropractor and he gave everyone a coupon for a free EB Foot Cleanse (company is Erchonia I think). I did it and was really amazed at the stuff that was in the water when I was done - black globs! He wants me to do 10 more, plus some other adjustment stuff and supplements. I want to talk to my lyme doctor on Monday. I've never used a chiropractor before so I'm a little nervous, but the foot cleanse seemed harmless and might actually do some good!
02-02-2006, 08:58 PM
Welcome to the boards. :wave:
I'm not sure if what I saw on TV here in Dallas is what you are talking about but a few weeks ago we were watching an infommercial type prgogram and found it very interesting. The natural type doctor and a few other holistic doctors chose somebody from the audience and had her soak her feet in water that had some kind of machine in it. Bu the end of the program the water looked like it had globs and stuff in it but I think it was red in color. They said this all came from her liver and was basically detoxing her. They weren't trying to sell the machine but did offer some detox products that really weren't very expensive. We wondered if it was legit or the machine put the color and stuff in the water. If it was legit it makes me wonder what the water I would soak my feet in would look like. :eek:
Do you have lyme and are you being treated. You have found a great site here with caring and knowledgeable people. Visit often and contribute what you can and ask all the questions you need to.
02-03-2006, 06:45 AM
Thanks Betterdaysforme! I have been feeling horrible for about 8 months - been around to all the doctors. In November I called someone from a chronic fatigue support group thinking maybe that's what I have (since I failed a tilt table test and read that lots of people with CFS have also failed a tilt table test) and it turns out that she had actually been misdiagnosed for 7 years with chronic fatigue and actually has lyme. Based on the symptoms I described she encouraged me to get tested via IGeneX. I had them send me their test kits and then went to my primary care physician (who also happens to be a rheumatologist). I explained all my symptoms (mostly anxiety, insomnia, concentration and memory problems, light, sound, smell sensitivity - primarily neurological stuff). I had already done lyme ELISA and western blots at Bioreference Labs since I work there and they were negative. (Well the ELISA was 1.0 - actually considered equivocal I think.) I didn't put much faith in those results since I know lyme tests can be unreliable. I really wanted my doctor to order the IGeneX tests. Of course he told me that I am just suffering from anxiety and sent me home with some samples of Effexor. I asked him about the possibility of lyme and he said that since my test results were negative that I don't have it. Then he proceeded to give me the standard speech about being careful of those lyme doctors who will put you on all kinds of unnecessary antibiotics, blah, blah, blah. He actually mentioned the work quack at one point. I knew it was pointless to pursue it with him. I then made an appointment with Dr. C. in Mt. Kisco, NY (my friend's wife used him for lyme). He put me on 100 mg doxycycline 2x day. I asked him if he would do any more lyme testing through IGeneX and he replied that they are a research lab and he primarily goes by clinical symptoms. He said a lot of other doctors rely heavily on test results. Well - I wasn't comfortable with no more testing so I switched to Dr. E. in Jackson, NJ. I've been to her once and she ordered IGeneX western blots and the Stricker panel. I don't have the IGeneX results yet, but the CD57 in my Stricker panel was 13 (range 60-360) so based upon everything I've read I presume I have lyme! I have an appointment on Monday to find out. I also have a high DHEA SO4 of 281 (range 25-220) and was wondering if anyone knows if that's a lyme-related thing -possibly with the adrenal glands? Dr. E. started me on AG Immune and EPA/DHA supplements when I saw her about 3 weeks ago.
02-03-2006, 07:17 AM
I do know the adrenals can be affected by lyme. I am glad you are going to see Dr. E. I know quite a few people on here are seeing her/him and will probably come on and tell you their experiences. I see Dr. Crist in Missouri and he didn't see the necessity to test again but did so because I wanted it. It went to Igenex this time and came back negative according to CDC standards with 4 positive and 1 negative but we still believe it's lyme and are treating. Of course the CDC wants certain criteria to be met but then tells you the test stinks. :rolleyes:
Keep us posted on your visit and good luck.
02-03-2006, 07:58 AM
Betterdaysforme - Has your doctor done the Stricker (CD57) panel yet? It's done at Labcorp. Here's a blurb from Dr. Burrascano's guidelines about it.
THE CD-57 TEST
Our ability to measure CD-57 counts represents a breakthrough in LB diagnosis and treatment.
Chronic LB infections are known to suppress the immune system and can decrease the quantity of the CD-57
subset of the natural killer cells. As in HIV infection, where abnormally low T-cell counts are routinely used as
a marker of how active that infection is, in LB we can use the degree of decrease of the CD-57 count to
indicate how active the Lyme infection is and whether, after treatment ends, a relapse is likely to occur. It can
even be used as a simple, inexpensive screening test, because at this point we believe that only Borrelia will
depress the CD-57. Thus, a sick patient with a high CD-57 is probably ill with something other than Lyme,
such as a co-infection.
When this test is run by LabCorp (the currently preferred lab, as published studies were based on their
assays), we want our Lyme patients to measure above 60; a normal count is above 200. There generally is
some degree of fluctuation of this count over time, and the number does not progressively increase as
treatment proceeds. Instead, it remains low until the LB infection is controlled, and then it will jump. If the CD-
57 count is not in the normal range when a course of antibiotics is ended, then a relapse will almost certainly
02-03-2006, 02:23 PM
I have seen many people on here discuss this test but never had it. Now that I am dealing with an llmd I will ask him about it. I see him again on 2/22. We have been hitting co-infections and I hope at the next visit we can start full force on the lyme.
A little over a year ago I saw an Infectious Disease doctor who prescribed an IV of rocephin and it seemed to be getting rid of all the little things but had to be stopped because my liver enzymes went to 743. I really didn't understand this but now realize that I am lucky to have a functioning liver after that. Bless his heart this doctor tried but admitted he wasn't overly lyme literate. I doubt he was familiar with co-infections which probably hampered healing but after improving somewhat at least I felt we were on the right track.
You said the test is fairly inexpensive and that will be good since I am now starting a new deductible for this year. Unfortunately I am on what is called Texas High Risk Insurance which is really great insurance but way too expensive. After my husband retired nobody would take me because the neuros were saying I had MS.
My payments are $535/mo with a $2500 deductible. Lots of money for people with a retired husband. He works at Home Depot part time just for my medical costs and insurance. Very different from the high tech job he had for years. I hope I can beat this soon so we can both resume a normal life again and enjoy what he has worked all his life for.
Thanks for the tip.
02-03-2006, 03:15 PM
I'm not sure what the cost of the test is since I didn't get my insurance statement yet. I know what you mean about the expensive insurance. My husband is self-employed and I work as a consultant so we have to get our own insurance. Last year we decided to go with the high deductible plan since we were both fairly healthy and it would save about $400 per month. Unfortunately my body decided to get sick! I had to meet a $5000 deductible which I finally hit in December and then it restarted in Jan. like yours. We have now switched back to the other plan. More money per month, but probably works out the same in the long run and much less of a hassle! (Previous insurance was Horizon and they were a nightmare to deal with!) Good luck at your visit with the doctor and I hope he'll run the test for you!
02-03-2006, 03:32 PM
The CD57 or Stricker panel can be done at an in network lab unlike the lyme tests. Mine was done at Labcorp. Hopefully this would help you out if you can go to an in network provider and just pay your co-pay and it is not subject to deductible. We have a relatively low deductible ($500 pp) but we are self-employed and pay for our own insurance which is $1100.00 per month and it goes up 20-25% per year. Not easy to swallow especially since I can not work and our income is cut in half.
Have a good weekend
02-03-2006, 05:29 PM
Is there a reason why labcorp is preferred over quest. I am thinking of requesting this test. My dr does not routinely do this. Thanks Marsha
02-03-2006, 06:43 PM
Here is a quote from Dr. Burrascano's guidelines about why LabCorp is preferred. I guess you could ask your doctor if having it done at another lab is comparable!
"When this test is run by LabCorp (the currently preferred lab, as published studies were based on their
assays), we want our Lyme patients to measure above 60; a normal count is above 200. There generally is
some degree of fluctuation of this count over time, and the number does not progressively increase as
02-03-2006, 11:28 PM
No matter who I go to I have to meet the deductible before they pay a penny. If anybody has a recent test and can tell what the cost is let me know. If it isn't horrendous I am sure I will get it done. Thanks. We do have a labcorp near us and I need to do the liver enzyme test too.
02-04-2006, 06:36 AM
I asked my Dr. to do a CD57 through quest and quest had never even heard of it. Can you just go to a Labcorp sight on you own and ask to have this done or does a Dr. have to send you?
02-04-2006, 06:52 AM
I am pretty sure a doctor has to order the test. You could probably call LabCorp and find out the cost.
02-04-2006, 06:55 PM
I would think Quest could do any test Labcorp does. When the Dr writes out the rx, maybe it is called something else. I thought Labcorp was the preferred lab only because it was the lab they used for the study.
Maureen I don't know how much the test is, but you could call Labcorp or whoever to get a price.
02-06-2006, 11:21 PM
I'm so tired I know I'll remember several other things as soon as I post this but detoxing seems to be a real biggee....HUGE that is....in keeping my system in check and going. I started with cutting out all sweets and breads...even fruits....see if you can find something on the "caveman diet." I never have any of the "fake sugars"....equal, splenda, etc. That made one heckuva difference! Since doing that the seizures seem in control! Has been around 2 yrs or so since I've had one and just before that stopped eating/drinking anything with that in it. ....Must admit I have about 1/2 a coke a week but other than that go pretty much w/o sweets. Every now and then will crave something and have a bite but if I have more boy can I feel it the next day!
I also started with the sauna...the dry one. Amazing how those toxins come out of your skin. It is an excretory organ though so makes perfect sense. That was also what got me back into exercising. Once I was able I made it my goal to do 15 min a week of tennis. My family/friends/doctors didn't think that was a possibility.....at all! My doc was the only one who didn't come out and tell me I couldn't do it though. It just made sense to me though that since heat kills the bacteria that first by raising my body temp I would be killing off those buggers and the sweating would rid who knows what all! I built up to playing tennis/working out 6-7 days a week....hard tennis too! Competitive leagues, etc. Yes, it can definitely throw you into a herx too. At the moment I just had a couple surgeries on my feet so just started back with anything cardio a few weeks ago. I can't play tennis yet but can do stuff at the gym or at physical therapy. When I sweat and do alot I will be in bed the next day in a herx. I knew that was probably going to happen when I had the surgeries but honestly didn't realize to what extent. I know all can't do it......and being single makes it more feasable(sp) for me but my health and what exercise has done for me come first in life. I don't want to lose another decade or more to all this. Even when I'm at my best...like before the surgeries.....I may be able to play tennis, do some around the house and just the "necessaries" in life and then am in bed but it's worth it for how I feel during that time and how I feel for the hours after. Once I'm going the down days become less and while I'm not up to what I see others doing in a day what I am able to do is remarkable considering! To even feel good enough to do it is amazing to me. Yes, I may still be stiff in the mornings and that may be for the rest of my life.....we all have something right? ....but knowing when I'm in shape that I will have such a portion of the day that is LIVING is absolutely wonderful!!! .....I know I"m not putting that into words correctly but hope it's making some sense???(time for me to go to sleep huh?:)....I am so tired!)....
anyway.....I also get these herbal cleansing things.....they're actually called "Detox (something or other)"....and are made to rid your system of all the crud. Really do work too!
.....I'm honestly not exactly sure what you mean by detoxing...(sorry, once I got some life back I have just stayed focused on that the past couple years so am a little behind on some of the new stuff/terminology/etc)....but if you're referring to the abx then you of course want to x out all the sugar and also make sure you're taking nystatin, diflucan and all the other necessaries.
....hope that helps some....I'm probably too tired to be on here typing!.....I'll get back to my novel:) tomorrow.....went to my nephews game.....cheered hard but they lost:(.......i'm just glad i'm able to go now though.....hate to think of all the years i missed watching them grow up!
....hmmmm...just wondering.......have always found this to be true in the past but on here are most of you all night owls? Seems to be such a common thing with lyme.......boy did mine get mixed up for a long time though.....was either not sleeping at all, sleeping all the time(that mostly).....or sleep cycle reversed...yuck to all of it!.....at least now I may get to bed later than I want no matter how hard I try to lay there and fall asleep at 10:30!!!.....That does still drive me crazy though.........anyone else?
02-06-2006, 11:24 PM
oops!ROFL!!!....I just read some of the other posts answering this question and I may be REALLY offbase on this one! .....99.9% sure I am! ....sorry:(...am laughing at myself though......i need to go to SLEEP and no more typing tonite!..nite all!