Well, I went and saw my Dr. regarding my ankle. I had a Brostrum repair in 2003. This summer I was riding a trolley that hit a bump and it jammed up into my ankle. Finally I saw my Dr, and the news was not good. X-rays showed a Osteochondral Fracture of the Dome of the Talus.

What can be done about it - not much. Could have it scoped and cleaned out (but that is not what is causing the pain), but long term I am looking at an ankle fusion :( . Right now I am to pull out my old lace-up brace for support.

Anyone have any experience with this?
-eko

No - no experience. But prior to having an MRI my OS thought I had an OCD -turned out it was impingement. SO, I read a ton about it during that time period. As I understand it - a big problem with OCD is that part of the bone often dies leaving an uneven surface of the talus. That leads to pain and problems.

I recall that the two treatment methods are: (1) immobilization and let it heal on its own and (2) they drill little holes into the talus where the OCD and that hopefully helps cause new bone growth.

It is true that long term a lot of OCDs turn into problems. I would highly recommend getting a few different opinions on what to do here. I went back and read a few of the articles I had in my file and they all say that you do the treatment methods of (1) and (2) discussed above, depending on the degree of fracture. There is no mention of doing nothing.

Try searches under "talar dome fracture" and "osteochondral dissecans" and "osteochondral defect".

I am very sorry that this happened. To have this happen on top of the ankle ligament surgery a few years ago must suck. Not to sound like a greedy person, but you may be able to get some $$$ from the city or whomever operates the trolley.

I had an OCD as a result of a severe ankle sprain. Age might play a factor in treatment methods because my doctor told me that because I was young I had a better chance at recovery. I spent 6 weeks in a cast, did PT, and then had surgery.

One thing that is a problem with an OCD is bone chips and if the OCD is left untreated additional pieces of the bone might break off and get stuck in the joint. This can cause pain as well as the ankle locking up. When I played basketball with my OCD I would fall over for no reason. Another problem is the bone and cartilage don't get enough blood which results in more pain.

Thank you for your input.

Keep in mind, the trolley incident was six months ago, so the impression I have is immobilization is not an option right now. If I had seen a doc when it happened, they would have casted it and watched how it healed and could have ended up in the same position I am in now. By the way, I do not have a good track record with casts and blood clots, that last time, with my Brostrum Repair I had DVT and ended up in ICU with a PE.

I am 41 years old, my pain is not where the fractured occured, or in the ankle joint yet, but because I have been compensating for by rolling my weight to the outside of my ankle, I have been stressing out the tendons (yeah, the one repaired is holding up beautifully) on the outside of my ankle and causing my shin splints. And yes, this totally sucks!

I see my PCP next month, she and I'll do a little bonding on this subject. The Dr. I saw yesterday is part of one of the best Orthopedic Groups in the area. The other ortho foot and ankle doc in the area, I have not heard anything positive about him. So in the meantime I do my homework, wear my brace, and take allthe help I can get.

Thanks! -eko

I had an OCD as a result of a severe ankle sprain. Age might play a factor in treatment methods because my doctor told me that because I was young I had a better chance at recovery. I spent 6 weeks in a cast, did PT, and then had surgery.


What kind of surgery did you have? What was your recovery period?

I had OCD repaired at the same time I had lateral ligament repair... due to recurrent sprains, I had a large lateral lesion on my talar dome. The x-ray showed the lesion, but then my doc didnt see it on the MRI, so almost didnt do the scope. But because I was having a lot of problems with my ankle locking up, he did it just in case, and it turned out that I had a large lesion. He did the k-wire drilling, and I was NWB for 5 weeks and PWB for 2 weeks. So far everything is going well.... I dont have the locking anymore, which is excellent. I realize that down the road, I will probably have problems becuase the new cartilage is much weaker than the original, but for now, it is allowing me to do what I want, so I am happy. They have some new and very successful techniques coming out regarding this type of lesion, so I would definately consider getting multiple opinions to see whats out there. Good luck!

For an OCD an arthroscopic procedure is used where 2-4 slits can be made around your ankle. The doctor never told me what he did in there and I never asked so I am not sure exactly what procedure he did or what he found in there. All I know is that the area was cleaned out and that drilling was done in the cartilage. My recovery time was 8 weeks. Make sure you seek out more than 1 opinion and from doctors that have experience dealing with an OCD. The doctor who did my surgery is affiliated with the major sports teams in the city and I was sent to him specifically because he was current on the latest techniques to deal with my injury.

Question - is this something that is better dealt with sooner rather than later? Will it get worse if I wait? Thanks. -eko

It can get worse if you wait, yes. The bone will continue to wear away with continued pressure, creating a greater lesion. THe more damaged tissue, the harder it is to repair. Although if you are looking at a fusion, I dont know how much it matters. But if you are looking at a more simple repair, I would look into it soon!

Right now I think I am looking at a repair, or at least that is the route I want to take at this time. I do not have a referral yet to an orthopedic doc for arthroscopic surgery, just started working on that project to gather opinions.
Thanks for your help. -eko

I didn't have surgery for my OCD right away b/c I was getting ready to go to college. The doctor did tell me the problem could get worse and that my activity would be restricted but it was not something I had to get taken care of right away. I did have the surgery a few months later because of an increase in pain.

Okay, I have an appointment March 8th with the Orthopedic Doc. He is also the Orthopedic Dr. for the semi-professional sports team we have in the area and is an instructor for advanced arthroscopic techniques.

I am starting a list of questions and am asking you, based on your experience, what should I be asking at this appointment? Thanks so much for your input! -eko :cool:

Here are some things I would ask the doctor.

1) Based on the doctor's perception of your injury what are the pros and cons of having surgery.
2) If you don't have the surgery what risks could you face in the future?
3) What other treatment options are available?
4) What the doctor would do during surgery and what the recovery time would be?

Good luck and ask any more questions you might have.

Here is an update. Saw an Orhtopedic Doc, who in turn referred me to a Foot and Ankle Orthopedic Specialist (of course there was not one where I live, so I drove nearly three hours). Saw him yesterday and have decided during the drive back home to go ahead and have surgery. There have been a significant increase in problems in the last 30 days, and I cannot go on like this much longer. Of course there will be the cleaning our of the joint, and the drilling, and six weeks NWB.

Any helpful hints out there on how to survive. This is not the first surgery on this ankle, with a Brostrom Repair about three years ago, but this will be different, so looking for any suggestions.

Thanks. -eko

Update:
Had surgery on 4/25-cleaned out the joint, drilling, etc. Saw some pictures, the only thing I was able to identify in recovery was the loose bodies removed, one piece exceeded 1cm in size. Currently NWB in a splint. See Dr. on Wednesday, mostly to check for DVT (had DVT and PE last time I had ankle surgery). Not much pain unless put foot down, don't know if it is due to the swelling or the weight of the splint hitting the ankle and pulling down.
-eko

Update:
Had surgery on 4/25-cleaned out the joint, drilling, etc. Saw some pictures, the only thing I was able to identify in recovery was the loose bodies removed, one piece exceeded 1cm in size. Currently NWB in a splint. See Dr. on Wednesday, mostly to check for DVT (had DVT and PE last time I had ankle surgery). Not much pain unless put foot down, don't know if it is due to the swelling or the weight of the splint hitting the ankle and pulling down.
-eko
EKO, I am glad you got the procedure done! I certainly sympathise with you, though I am the opposite, got the source of the friction repaired in realigning the joint, but did not, on OS' advise, get the ligature addressed, and have the feeling in my gut I just initiated a two-step fusion. I hope and pray not, but that feeling is there. I will keep you in prayer, NO DVT!!! Keep us posted, I look forward to watching your recovery. Kim

One week down. Saw the Dr. this morning. He removed the stitches, there is some swelling around the ankle, but overall looked pretty good for one week. Still NWB for 5 more weeks, now in an AirCast. In another week can begin movement of the ankle, simple back and forth movement. Still being monitored for DVT - doing leg lifts and taking coumadin.

Kim, thanks for your support - I have been warned that I am a candidate for some serious arthritis in my future, also if this does not work the word "fusion" has come up. I am hoping to be able to put that all off for many years.

-eko

:) Four weeks down NWB, two to go????? I'll find out in two weeks. Back to work part time, but not driving since it is my right ankle. It is feeling pretty good, slight swelling when hanging down for extended periods of time. Moving the ankle back and forth now, have limited ROM, was told only move as far as comfortable. Just thought I'd post an update. -eko

Hey,

I was recently diagnosed with an OCD, and I'm having surgery on it in a weeks time (cleaning out the joint and subchondral drilling)

If you've had this procedure done before, how was it? Was is successful? Painful? How long was it until you could WB? <Insert other important questions here that I've managed to forget>

Because the damage is on the medial part of my talus, the surgeon says that there's a good chance he may not be able to reach it, and if that's the case, I'll either have to have arthroscopy done from the back (which is a very difficult procedure and few doctors will do it), or alternatively, have open surgery on it...

This, is my sad face -> :-|

Any advice/information from somebody that's gone through a similar thing, would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks xxx

Sorry to hear that you are joining my little club here with an OCD. :dizzy:
Can't quite answer all your questions, but I answer a few and let you know where I am at in the process. I had arthoscopic surgery where they cleaned out the joint, did the drilling, removed a bone spur and removed the inflamed lining of the joint capsule. My lesion was on the medial side, but towards the front, it sounds as if yours is towards the back. Anyway I had surgery April 25th, so I am just about six weeks about. I have been NWB the entire six weeks and have an appointment Wednesday, which will hopefully be a good thing.

Successful? Too early to tell. Dr. said there is an 85% success rate, won't really know for about nine months. Dr. said everything went well during surgery, so it was just a wait and see process. The surgery was not terribly painfull (I have a fairly high tolerance for pain). I was off of my T-3s after about 3 days. I iced faithfully for the first 48 hours, and elevated faithfully for the first two weeks. It took about three to four weeks before I could keep my foot down comfortably for extended periods of time (hours).

Right now looking forward to my appointment in two days, hopefully starting to bear weight, some PT, and being able to drive again.

If you have any other questions, let me know. -eko

Ohhh, well, best of luck for Wednesday, be sure to post an update here to let me know how it all went!

And yeah, mine's towards the back at a really difficult angle to really reach from the front, but still... I remain optimistic. My operation is on the 12th, so a week today, I'm actually pretty excited about it, even though the doctor didn't actually seem too hopeful, lol.

Nine months?! Wow, that just seems so long, I've had problems for well over a year now, so that's just pretty depressing. Though, that being said, the 85% success rate is really promising.

For the actual procedure itself, did you get a choice in the type of anesthetic used?
Because if I'm given the choice, I'd rather have a local so that I can stay awake during the operation.

Anesthetic I was given no choice on, I ask and there were no if, ands or buts, it was going to be general, and a general it was. I'd be surprised if you are given a choice.

When I was initially talking to my doctor about my surgery, he had mentioned a possible third port at the back of the ankle if he needed it. Apparently he didn't because I have only two scars. They don't know until they get in there and open up the joint with a distraction device (external that flexes the ankle open during surgery), and fill the joint capsule with fluid.

I'll post an update after my appointment on Wednesday.
-eko

Six week update after Dr. visit...

I can drive again :bouncing: :bouncing: :bouncing: Yes, it has been my right ankle.

I am rid of the air cast (no longer NWB also) and now have a air-stirrup ankle brace that fits in a shoe (well, sorta). I am partial weight bearing as I wean myself off of crutches. Working on getting PT scheduled to strengthen the ankle after six weeks of non-use. Go back to the Dr. in six weeks. I am so looking forward to moving on. Success, well that will be determined down the road. Right now all looks good. :D
-eko

Dear Eko (should we now call you twinkle toes?)

YEAH!!! Sounds like things are finally going your way. What a long road it has been. I am happy you are finally on your way to "life" again. Continued good luck and health.

Imagine this is me raising a glass to you and to a successful rehab, once and for all! :D :bouncing: :jester: :angel:
jane

Thanks Jane.

I have been following your frustrating journey and hope that you soon find the answers and resolution you too seek. Just remember you are your best advocate and speak openly and honestly about what you need and what your goals are.

Take care -Ellen :angel:

That's great Eko, I'm glad it's on the right track.

x

EKO,
Congrats! I'm happy for you, and pray this is it! You have had such a long struggle! Kim

Eko, was your surgery done on an outpatient basis, if so how long were you in the hospital for from the time you arrived, to when you were able to return home?

Thanks

Yes, my surgery was done on as an outpatient. I arrived at the hospital about an hour before surgery, the actual procedure took about 1.5 hours, recovery, from this point on I am a little foggy, about another 1.5 hours. All told, 4 to 5 hours. It all depends on how early they want you there before surgery and how long recovery takes. If you have any other questions, please let me know.

-eko

Hey ActionMaxen-

I want to wish you the best of luck with your surgery on Monday, I will be sending you good thoughts. What time is your surgery scheduled for? Be sure to post an update when you are feeling up to it.

Follow Dr's orders and take good care!
Ellen

Hi!

Oh my, thankyou so much for posting that, it's very sweet of you.

I was actually about to come on here and rant about how excited I am! Lol

TOMORROW!!!! :bouncing:

I have to go in to the hospital at 7:45am, so it's going to be quite an early start :yawn: But I'll be sure to give you an update as soon as I can.

Thanks again for being so thoughtful,

Maria

xxx

Okay, so.... here I am, tired and sore, but alright, lol

Well, I had the surgery! I actually had a pretty big chunk of bone jammed in the joint that kept catching everytime I moved it, so, the surgeon removed it, washed it all out, removed the cyst, and smoothed it all over, which is okay, and now he seems to think that my symptoms will desist... which is always good.

I just have bandages on at the moment which have to stay on for a few days, and in two weeks time I'm having my stitches removed.

In the mean time I'm just supposed to take it easy, keep it elevated etc and when I return to see the consultant we're going to discuss what happens next.

Oh, and I did get a choice in the anesthesia, so I had an epidural instead of general...

My back is actually more sore than my ankle at the moment, lol

Anyway, enough of me, how's yours been?

Maria x

Glad to hear you are home :cool: And impressed that you had a choice of anesthesia. Take good care of your ankle and hopefully the surgery corrected all the problems you were having.

My ankle is doing pretty well. I am slowly putting more weight on it and using it more. It is a struggle, I want to hurry up and push my ankle, but yet I am afraid of screwing it up if I go to fast. I wish I did not have to wait so long for PT, but they did not have any openings, but at least I have been approved by insurance. Slow but sure.

Here is to healing! Take care. -Ellen :angel:

Ellen~
I was going to ask how your PT was going, but you just posted you had to wait so long for it. When do you start? In the meanwhile, you're pwb in a brace for almost a week? How is that working out for you? You're in prayer. Kim

Maria~
I hope you're doing well today! I'll bet you're feeling it today. Hang in there, keep iced/elevated, and take your pain meds! Let us know. Prayers are with you. Kim

Kim- I have my first PT session/evaluation on June 27, in two more weeks. I did ask them to call if they had any opening come up before then.

I am getting around pretty well w/ the crutches and the brace. I have a lot of swelling that is getting pushed up the leg and through the front and back of the brace, but I expected that - one due to the nature of the surgery, and two a remnant from my DVT, which scarred the vein. Once I have full use of the ankle and with time, I expect the swelling will reduce back to what I had been dealing with previously from the DVT which wasn't that bad.

I am slowly increasing the amount of weight I put on my ankle depending on how it feels. Every time something aches I have to think is it muscle/tendon, is it the bone that was drilled, or it is the darn scar tissue at the portal sites (massage, massage, massage).

I am feeling positive and thank you for all of your good thoughts!
-Ellen

Ellen,
That's a long wait. I hope you will get a quicker appointment. Maybe someone will cancel.
When he told you it was time to go pwb, did your Doc give you specific instructions in the office to control how much weight or pressure, or is it "as tolerated"? Too, is the time and/or frequency limited initially, or did he say do what you can and if it hurts or you tire, quit?
I have a visit on the 21st, and while I'm not an anxious person by nature, I'm nervous now. If there's enough bone around the hardware, he'll let me have a boot (No more cast!!!) and go pwb, so I'm really starting to get curious about how this part of the process goes.
Thank you for sharing your progress with those of us following!!! Take care. Kim

Kim, when my Dr. told my to go PWB, he said go as tolerated, as I am suppose to wean myself off of these crutches. So I have started off slow and lightly, and over time have gently increased the amount of pressure I have put on the ankle and the distances I am going. However after six weeks NWB, I am concerned about the ankle being weak, so that is why I am so anxious to start PT, because I need to strengthen it. I have things to do this summer, shoes to wear, and don't need a tan line mid-calf :) (lol).

I hope you get good news at your next appointment.
Take care -eko

EKO,
I think you're right about needing the pt, but guess as long as you're still using the crutches, you're not likely to do damage, or get bad habits. Also understand the urge to "do it" and get on with life. Laughing sadly at the tan line, I already know I'm going to look like a freak. My cast is a short leg, and I don't know how long it will take before that stark white span blends in, but I hope not too long! Take care.

Action~ Thinking of you, and hoping you're resting peacefully! Let us know how you are.

Hey again guys,

Okay, so I know it's still early days, but I'm actually a little concerned.

My ankle will NOT stop cracking, even with the smallest movement, and whenever I try to get the walking motion going, it locks, and it's *extremely painful*

It's actually worse than before.

As I said, I know it's so early, but should it be doing this?

(Thanks for the kind thoughts, I hope you're all well xxx)

Wow Maria, are you suppose to be moving it? I am just asking because I was NWB and not even allowed to move my ankle for two weeks. If you are allowed to move it, I'd imagine that it would be sore, after all, they did have to go through the joint capsule, and did some work in there. My Dr. just wanted the ankle to rest, so I am surprised that are you moving it.

By the way, did you have two or three ports when you had your surgery?

Don't rush the healing, and if you were told to move it are experiencing pain, I'd call and ask about it. At two weeks when I was told to start moving it I did not experience pain.

Hope all else is going well. -Ellen

To be honest, I'm not happy at all about how it's been handled by my consultant, he never talks to me about anything and there's absolutely no communication. If it wasn't for all the research I've done for myself, I would have NO idea what was going on.

I was given some exercises to do, and I think I had two portals, but to be honest, I'm not 100% sure. I didn't actually see them make the incisions and I haven't been allowed to take the dressing off at all so I'm yet to see.

I called up the hospital shortly after my last post, and the constant locking and clicking of my joint shouldn't be happening, so I now have an appointment to see the surgeon again on the 20th.

I'm actually dreading it, I'm not questioning his capability to do his job at all, but he just NEVER talks anything through with me at all. There just seems to be this attitude of; 'Well, hurry up, get her out of here so we can go on a lunch break'

Suffice to say that I'm not in the slightest bit amused.

I swear, I could just... scream and cry. Lol

The nurse came around today, and I have two ports at the front.

x

Maria,

I hope you get some answers at your appointment on the 20th. I am not sure where you live, but medical appears to work differently. Your appointment on the 20th is with the surgeon, correct? What does a consultant do? Just trying to understand the role everyone plays.

Anyway, I'd start writing down your questions and concerns regarding your ankle and ask for answers. This is your ankle after all.

-eko

Maria~
I'm no Doc, either, but... walking on it doesn't seem right. You must have an incredible pain threshhold.
Doc, consultant, anyone you can get your hands on, but someone needs to 1. Listen to you 2. Explain procedures, expectations, do's, don'ts, why's, and s/s to look for.
Clicking, cracking/popping, locking are definitely not good!
I'm sorry you're having trouble, kinda think you wouldn't be if you'd been counselled beforehand. If you have any doubt about your ability to assert yourself and express your needs, have someone go with you as an advocate. You're in our thoughts and prayers, best of luck! I'll watch for progress, meanwhile, take it easy and have a good weekend. Kim

Heyyyy,

Thankyou to the both of you for your posts, I really appreciate it.

On the day I went into surgery I'd prepared rather a large list of questions that I wanted to ask, because I was told that I'd be given some time with the doctor to discuss everything. I NEVER got a chance to ask anything, he came in for... probably less than a minute, marked my leg, another doctor came in - they started talking, and before I knew it they'd left, leaving only a trail of dust behind them, lol.

I know I should try and be more assertive, as you said... it is after all MY ankle, but I don't know.... I just don't want to be a bother or make a fuss of things. It's not all bad though, even though I am a complete push over, I happened to marry somebody who isn't, lol, and he's coming with me on Tuesday to try and get some answers.

The nurse came around today, and she told me to definitely keep my weight off it until I get a chance to talk to the doctor. I mean, I don't really know what's going on in there, I might be making it worse.

Lol, I really wish I'd gone private

Once again, thankyou very much for everything, have a great weekend, and take care.

Maria

xxx

Maria~
I'm glad your hubby will be with you. Your Doc is being paid very well to be "bothered". I don't think our Docs always ignore us intentionally, but figure we're smart enough to figure some things out and ask about what we don't know. (Some people don't want to know.) You can question your nurse, too. I've found they are knowledgeable enough, and generally communicate better! Take care, and let us know! Kim

Just thought I'd post an update. It has been nearly two weeks since I went PWB. I start PT next week (finally :rolleyes: ). I am getting around pretty good on my crutches now, and am hobbling short distances without crutches with my brace on just to start building some basic strength and getting use to putting some weight on the ankle. I was surprised how weak my knee was as well. In the morning and at night I go short distances around the house on my crutches w/o the brace, just because it is a pain putting it back on once I take it off for the evening. I am having a devil of a time with swelling, so I made the executive decision to start wearing my support stocking again - it has made a huge difference and has help with the pain I was getting form the swelling in the ankle.

Anyway, I feel like I am making progress

-eko :cool:

That's great Eko, I'm glad it's well on the way to being better. :D

Well, I saw the surgeon again today, and he said not to worry too much about the locking and cracking symptoms at the moment, because the joint is still very much recovering from the surgery.

He was actually really impressed and pleased that I could walk on it at all yet, he was still expecting it to be too sore. So, that's promising.

He's told me to use my crutches for the time being and to continue resting it as often as I can. I have another appointment in three weeks time to see him again, and he says that if by then my symptoms haven't subsided, we'll have to take it from there and see what's causing it.

But for now, it's a relief that I don't have to be concerned about it, and hopefully within the next 3 weeks the locking will have ceased.

My stitches are coming out on the 26th, and I start physio on the 28th.

Maria x

EKO, I'm glad to read you're getting around better, and really glad that your pt is coming closer!
Maria, I'm glad your Doc is confident, and I sure hope he's right in encouraging you to walk. Take good care of yourself, and keep posting!

Hey again, no improvement at all as of yet.

Maybe I should be more patient, lol

How are you both?

Hey, Maria. I'm sorry you're still not seeing improvement. It IS so difficult to be patient when you don't feel like you're getting any benefit! Are you still walking on it? I wonder about that, don't really think he should have had you bearing weight anywhere before 6 weeks, or longer. Just my opinion, though. Lots of different viewpoints even among the docs themselves. I remember you in prayer. I'm well, have posted a few threads, but in a nutshell, I'm out of cast, in boot, adding gentle pressure. The 4th, my 3rd month post-op, I'm permitted to begin pwb, graduating as tolerated. See him on Aug 2, when he will order formal pt and hopefully release me. I asked if it was ok/safe for me to do stretching and strengthening exercises during this period, and he's ok'd it. Stiff, my ankle/mt's/toes really don't want to move, but I'm doing this 3X a day, and should see some progress.
Best of all, THANK GOD, is NO MORE CAST!!! The boot has an air bladder, I can control the rigidity so I don't get the pain! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, and keep in touch! Kim

My status is that I start PT on Tuesday 6/27 - yeehaw! I have been increasing the amount of weight I have been putting on the ankle and even going short distances w/out the crutches. Tonight is manicure the foot night in my house, make it look somewhat decent for the first day of PT. I am sure I will have more to report after Tuesday. Can't wait to hear when they have to say.

Hope things are going better for you Maria. You start PT right after I do, we'll have to compare notes.

Take care and think healing thoughts! -Ellen

Well, you're actually supposed to try and move it as much as possible and put weight on it, because it's that movement that actually helps shape the new fibrocartilidge to give it as smooth a surface as possible. it's a pretty controversial injury though and a lot of doctors will treat it differently.

For now I'm just resting it when possible and using my crutches to give it some time to relax.

My stitches came out this morning and the wounds have healed rather nicely.


Lol, I hate physiotherapy, it's so tedious, but yes - we'll have to exchange notes!

I'm glad you're both coming along nicely.

eko~
Tomorrow is another milestone day for you! I will keep you in prayer and watch to read how it went! A pedicure is a great idea, and very relaxing, too. Enjoy!!! Take care.

Maria~
I guess different Docs come up with differing opinions on how to treat any injury, and from what I've read on the boards, they seem to be pretty evenly split on weight bearing and mobilization. My OS is very conservative, and has kept me down a lot longer than the original OS did, (He let me walk as soon as the cast was hard), but if it gives me a solid repair, it's worth it. If I were wb, and something broke, I'd be in trouble.
Glad your incision is healing well, and I hope the unseen portions of it are on the mend as well. Take care of yourself. Kim

Eko/Ellen-

Well, today was the first day of PT, right? How was it? Am thinking of you and sending good thoughts! Take a few advil, grab a drink, prop up the ol' tootsies and tell us all about it.

Have been away for a week (family emergency) and am trying to get caught up. I am still thumping along in the newest boot (XP Aircast). Gee, what with all the hardwear we all have, we sound like teenage boys comparing cars! Hope all is well-
Jane

Hi ya'll :wave:

Was a little disappointed in PT today. She mostly did an evaluation and gave me some exercises to do at home for now until I get my regular appointments scheduled - which they couldn't schedule until July 11th! :mad: . I am ready to get on with the show here! Anyway, I am planning on doing those exercises she gave me everyday until then plus some others. My goal is to be off these crutches within three week from now, and I'd like to be out of this brace. Did I tell any of you that I may follow Dr's orders, but I do reach a point when enough is enough and I am reaching that point.

If you have any suggestions for beginning strengthening exercises to do at home, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks -Ellen

Sorry to hear your first PT appointment was such a disappointment - July 11th? What a joke and how frustrating!

After umpteen times in PT, this is what I can offer. Take it with a grain of salt, since I am no pT or MD...

Proprioception exercises do a world of good for fine motor control (super important for those instantaneous corrections to prevent another roll over) and strength.:D They look and sound sooo easy, but will give you a pretty good ankle workout. Make sure to have a spotter or do them in a doorway for support and "catching yourself". Let me know if you need to learn about them (they require little to no equipment).

I also find benefit from toe pick ups (marbles, etc), towel scrunches (how boring, eh), ROM, toe writing/ABC's, ROM in a bucket of soft sand or raw rice (works really well esp in beginning weeks); theraband exercises; blanket moves (push, pull, lifts and ROM under a quilt or blankets for resistance); isometrics using other foot and leg, leg lifts with/without weights, toe lifts (use both feet at first, then progres to the "bad" foot solo), walking and pool workouts. I especially like the pool therapy as it helps loosen things up, but adds resistance equal to force applied. It also doesn't hurt quite as much which allows faster progress and results in decreased swelling. Also did the hot/cold plunges but I think you already do that.

These are just the beginning moves for the first few weeks. At first they seem fairly simple, but do give you a workout, aiding overall tendons, ligaments, nerves and muscle strengthening/flexibility. Eventuall you move to wobble board, weights and sport specific moves utilized in your sport/activity.

I also do partial weightbearing (as tolerated and MD approved) to get back into walking, bending, etc. I usually follow the trainers and PT's advise but find they can go a bit to slow for me sometimes so I just practice at home as much as posible/pain allows. I generally find I progress faster then if following the standard PT protocol of ROM, etc usually employed in 'general' outpatient physical therapy offices. These (above exercises) are all based on getting athletes back to form and really do work - usually cutting length of time required to full rehab by a few weeks.

Glad you are at least "on your way" to being back on your own 2 feet! Keep up the spirits.;)

jane

* my old division A coaches also had us mow fields, chalk fields and walk on beach for added strength and flexibility, but that is 'down the road' a bit (plus we were free labor, ha ha)

EKO,
I'm sorry your pt was so disappointing! Yes, I DO understand the mental aspect of recovery, the urge to push beyond Doc's orders, saying, "I'll show him he doesn't need to keep me tied down!" This segment, for me, is most irritating, feeling good and wanting to be DOING something. I pray you will continue to do as you're told, and won't forget how much you have endured to reach this point. (I'm waffling, find little thoughts in my mind, like, "It would be ok to start pwb a little early, get ahead of the game. It's only 2 weeks, 1 week, 6 days..." What prevents me is the knowledge that I can't go through this again!)
How long have you been pwb? And you're figuring another 3 weeks? Wow. I start the 4th, and figured I'd march into the doc's on the 2nd of Aug, but I wonder if I should be disappointed. I really would be better with this if I had a realistic idea of what to expect, lol.
Keep posting, and I'll keep praying. Take care! Kim

Jane!
Wow, thank you for your informative post! I have been looking for exercises, as my Doc said it was ok for me to exercise on my own, gently, but won't do formal pt for at least another month. GRRRR....
Please, when you have the time, explain the proprioception exercises. I'm nowhere near ready for wb things with my new foot, but am doing everything I can with my left foot to be ready. I've heard this term, but have no idea what it means.
In your experience, how long and how often is optimum? I'm running through things quickly with my left foot 3 and 4 times. The new foot, I can spend 15 or 20 minutes, and not really complete an exercise except the water bottle roll and a few almost not even visible plantar/dorsiflexes. I do this 2x, or 3x, daily. Is more better? Or less, more often? Or does it matter at this point?
After 11 weeks of no motion except the muscle spasms inside the cast, and a bit of toe wiggling, I'm sickened by the state of my muscles.
I try to lower my toes, which are still slightly swollen, and stick up, and efforts to flatten them without pushing with my hand are futile. No side to side motion in the ankle at all, even with gentle push from my hands... (Scared, and not wanting to force it, I called, wondering if he had anchored the bottom portion of the plate to something in the subtalar, and the nurse said he hadn't, that it was only on the fibula and would not affect my rom at all.) I roll a frozen water bottle heel to toe without problem. Marbles, left foot is getting there, though not easily. New foot, nope, I can sorta push a big one, but can't come close to picking it up.
Doing these things is a real test of will. Sometimes I stare at it, trying with all my might to make it move, and nothing happens. Is it still attached to me? I know it is, when it finally moves, I feel pulling posterior, and some odd pinpricks and minor shocks in my midfoot, 3rd and 4th metatarsals at the toe base.
The leg, I wasn't prepared for that. It never crossed my mind that it would actually shrink, and I'd lose muscle. Duh... The lateral side, from midway down the calf to the ankle, where the plate is, is actually concave. When I run my fingers up and down, around, but not directly over the rod, I feel small, ropy things, have no idea if that's scars? Wasted muscles? Veins? Aliens?
Alright, blah-de-blah, I'll shut up for now, and watch for more input. Thank you, ladies, for sharing your knowledge. I appreciate it more than I can say, and honestly don't know how I would have gone through this without this forum! Take care. Kim

Kim,

I have been PWB for three weeks now and I know my Dr. expects me to be off the crutches by the time I see him again in three weeks, but I am sure he had no idea that I'd have this kind of delay with PT :mad: . I have actually been doing short distances from time to time FWB with my stirrup brace on. I told my therapist that I plan on being off the crutches in three weeks and I want to be out this brace into a less restrictive one also in three weeks. Sarting 7/11 I will have PT 2x per week. I am also doing the exercises I was given twice a day plus some extras from previous experience to help things along. Nothing extreme, very controlled and cautious.

I actually am camping in five weeks with my family and in six weeks we are heading to the beach along Lake Michigan for a week, so this ankle needs to be ready for some action.

So here is to making progress - slow but sure (saw my Primary Care Dr. yesterday, she knows me pretty well by now, seen my stubborn streak a time or two, - told me to go for it, understood my PT frustration, but knew I was not out of control).

-eko

EKO~
I'm surprised that it is actually supposed to take that long. Reading your posts, besides feeling some of your disappointment and some mild outrage over the lack of timely access to care, I've started comparing, and I'm now thinking maybe I'm in for a little more. I mean, if your pwb period, supposedly WITH the aid of pt, was intended to be 6 weeks... and mine was given for 4 weeks with no pt, maybe I will have my orders and a release and maybe I will not. I'm doing as much stretching and rom as I can, gently, but firmly sticking to it in an effort to avoid another 4 to 6 week sentence, lol. And I'd like to know, so I'm not unrealistic, what's next? The stirrup brace, I've never used. Does it allow rom, but keep you from going too far? Are you after a smaller brace for your trip, or do you think you might be ready for a wrap by then?
I guess I just figured on Aug 2nd I'd put my wrap back on and go back to work, re-scheduling my hours on the day or 2 a week I had pt. Sorry I grouse about it so much. I really wouldn't be so irritated if I'd been told what to expect, and getting my "plan" in 4 to 6 week increments and having to get any realistic and practical info from an internet forum makes me want to give that poor man what for. I'm thankful you all are here telling me, or I'd still have no clue. I can't tell you how many times I've called my boss and said, "I know I told you blah, but..."
Anyway, I'm sure you will work as hard as you need to, and at the same time protect yourself from injury. Hopefully you will get out of the stirrup and off the crutches in time to enjoy your trip. Take care! Kim

Hey Kim,

I should clarify, the smaller brace that I refer is actually one of those that laces up and then wraps around that I want to use for extra support. The stirrup brace only allows for the up and down movement of the foot, it protects you from rolling the ankle. When I am sitting at my desk at work these days, I take it off and do my exercises under the desk while working.

I really believe my Dr. expects me to move through PWB to FWB in six weeks, but the delay in PT is pushing me back. I think that when my Dr, sees me, he is not going to be exactly happy with the situation, but then again, he is 150 miles away.

Thanks for all your support, I'll let you know how I progress.
-Ellen

Eko- tell me again exactly what they did during surgery. I was re reading the old posts and you talked about the drilling and cartilage repair, but you just talked about a rod, etc. If you can give me some more details (my brain gets confused sometimes...) I can, perhaps, better guide you.

Proprioception exercises are described fairly well on the nbet - especially at the PT and Athletic trainer sites. Just google "proprioception ankle". Many of them will have pictures to help you se what I am talking about. I can write out a description of them [removed] In the meantime here are my feeble attempts at descriptions:

Essentially the basic moves (baby steps come first, after all) are to stand in a doorframe, holding the sides of the frame. Start out wearing whatever brace, etc you need. Then move onto wearing good sneakers at first, then move on to barefoot. Put weight on both feet/legs - in other words just practice trying to stand up normally and to maintain stillness. Next-Close your eyes and stand there for a minute. Do not hold your breath. You may not notice anything, but you will actually be swaying a lot or a bit depending on your ability. {remember how I was standing like a drunk and falling down? My proprioceptive ability was completely shot this go round} The foot is firing off the muscles and nerves, while adding stress to tendons and ligs. This is the retraining part which aids 'proprioception' (the sense of place/where you are and the foot's ability to maintain or correct position; even minute corrections, which is the super important part)

You then would progress to putting more and more weight on the bad foot until you are eventually standing on only the bad leg (the good leg wil be bent 90 degrees at the knee, holding your good foot off the ground). This can take anywhere from a day or 2 to a week or more. You move from one level to the next by always doing the first exercise, add the 2nd, etc. You move "up" to the next level once you can easily do the previous action fairly consistently (about 85%).

Next set of moves is single leg stance while bending forward, back, side to side (purposely putting yourself off balance). Next level is catching something and/or reaching for something while maintaing balance on the one foot. Another move is doing toe lifts while using both feet, then only using good leg to "help" get you up; then progress to single leg toe lifts. {this is much harder after theses types of injuries}

The ultimate goal is to do all above without needing to hold doorframe for support or to maintain your balance. Eventually you do all above on an unstable surface (foam mat, then wobble board or incline boards in all directions). The key is to try and keep your balance without needing to put the other foot down to help "catch your balance". Balance means good posture and little to no movement of body (especially upper body movement)

I have no idea if this makes sense to someone who has never done these exercises so let me know if I need to better explain them so you can picture how to do them. At first they seem so easy and like they are doing absolutely nothing but... they really work the muscle memory and help bring back stability, strength, etc to ligs and tendons, nerves, etc. All the teams (pro and college) use them and they have been proven to work significantly better than anything else AND produce lasting results. They will fatigue your foot and leg, so be prepared. You eventually want to be able to stand perfectly still on one leg while on a wobble board for several minutes (much harder then it sounds!).

FYI- after having several teammates go thru OCD/talus repairs, severe sprains etc and based on my PT team's experience; it takes longer to recover fully from these injuries and repairs than they usually tell you. But, once you get to mid level of rehab things go ahead much quicker. Don't get discouraged. Usually try for 2x/day at first, then do quite often as you progress and gain ability/strength/endurance.

Hope things go well. Let me know how it goes!

EKO,
Ok. Now I understand the brace. I may end up with one, as I will not do surgery for ligaments for at least a year, maybe 2. Your pwb to fwb time is obviously not on track because of your lack of access to pt, but I feel empathy with you because of the frustration. I would be so unconcerned with the Doctor being "happy" or "not happy"... Your happiness is what matters!!! It IS your foot, and you do everything possible to get it healed and strong.
The follow up question that gives me is, "I've made the transition from pwb to fwb in a boot, you've done it in a brace, which is nearly the same difference if you can't roll. We walk into the office without the support of crutches. In a "Perfect world," would we walk out and be done except for pt visits and the occasional follow-up with the os? Or is the transition from boot/brace to either unsupported or lightly supported a lengthly one? " I'm not working now, just doing some sewing, and it's not coming close to paying the bills. I have an on-your-feet for 8 - 12 hours job, and I'm trying to get an accurate idea of when I might return. Thanks! Kim

Jane,
My friend, I don't need your Email address! I like reading your posts, and know from experience that the kindest, nicest people who try to circumvent the system simply disappear! Don't!!!
Thank you for posting the basic exercises. I will do a google and see what else I can learn. I have actually done these, though not formally, and I didn't know what they were called. I'd found them on a site and started doing them while I was in between doctors and despairing of finding anyone to help. Now, post-op, it will be a long time before I can do it with my right, but I will start again with my left.
I used to take kenpo, and a common exercise was blindfolded, walking a 4x4, then executing kicks. Left foot was never a serious problem, but right was unstable. I did not know why. Now I know!
Now, the balance is an issue because my bp meds give me a dizzy, light-headed sense that is heightened when I close my eyes. I guess I have some work to do, eh?
Anyway, thank you for the explanation, and for not getting banned. I look forward to reading your success stories!!! Kim

Jane- I had arthroscopic surgery for an OCD - medial side (9 months after the initial injury) and it was a fairly large lesion. So that required the removal of loose bodies, drilling, he removed a bone spur, and stripped the inflamed lining of the joint capsule.

Previously I had a Brostrom Repair and great toe fusion (same ankle and foot as this one).

I just can't do it all at once, I like to spread it out (LOL).

-Ellen

Maria - :wave:

Was wondering how PT went? Didn't you have your first session? Have heard from you lately! Just checking on you.

-Ellen

Hey again :wave:

Yeah, I had my first PT session, and well, things are good. I can walk without crutches and it feels fine unless I'm on it for a long period of time. The locking is just something I'll have to put up with for a while, but eventually it should subside.

The physiotherapist was just generally shocked that it's healing as fast as it is.

Anyway, I have a few little exercises to do in the mean time, I've been told to put as much weight through my ankle as possible, but obviously not to over do it.

I should be seeing my surgeon again on the 11th of July, and hopefully that'll be the end of it.

Pffft, 18 long months. Lol

I thought this was the "no email" board, but I couldn't recall. Glad I didn't get bounced for asking how to do it!

I almost forgot- when you do the eyes closed part of exercises, you also add eyes closed, head leaning forward (chin to chest) nd then head back (aim up to ceiling w/chin). Be careful, especially what with the BP meds as this can really knowck you off balance.

The figure 8 lace up braces add support and inhibit rolling, but you can roll if you take a bad move. I have found transition from boot to brace is hard first few days, but good after that. Although- I do have a limited amount of time I can be on the foot as it gets painful and can swell up again. A little longer each day and it gets better/builds more endurance.

Your big toe is fused, so be super careful. I wouldn't force it at all. Using your other foot or hand to help the other toes move is usually ok IF you are gentle. Just go to moderate resistance, but no bad pain.

Muscles tend to dissapear - looks so odd (my husband saya grosse) but come back fully and equal to other leg w/in 12 months. They end up 'pretty close' to opposite leg within 3-4 months in rehab. This is one of the reasons you feel the ropey stuff. It is use leg anatomy and bone buildup (old bumps and bangs from as early as childhood) that you never see or feel because muscle tone hid it. The tigle/shocks are just the nerves making the muscles work (or try to). There could have been som einjury tot he nerve (I am not a doctor) but if you feel something at all then they usually will 'come back' with in a year. Most likely, I bet it is just the muscles trying to remember how to work again. I have the same thing right now and it is frustrating! Sometimes I wonder if I will ever be back to normal. Such along road to travel eh?

Gee, notice all my posts lately read like a novel? Egadds! Ask me something I can answer short and sweet - ha ha
jane

eko-

heh- don't forget that you had major recorating done to the joint! It will take time to regain ROM and movement at will. This is how it is suppossed to be right now. Don't fret (too much) at how things don't work right now. I am sure that with time things will start to cooperate. Sounds like to me that you are doing all the right moves, etc. Keep trying and it will come back. I send a big hug and a giant e-aspirin!:)

jane

Maria~
I'm glad to hear things are going so well now. It must feel pretty good to exceed expectations! Keep up the good work, and we'll pray your locking stops soon!!!

Jane~
Yes, they're long, but they have so much info, and I really appreciate your taking the time to give detailed answers. Anyone who is bored doesn't have to read, and some of us, like me, learn lots!!!
I'm glad to know the odd sensations are evidence that my body is trying to obey. I've read bad things about people having nerve damage as a result of surgeries, and am SO THANKFUL I don't have any s/s. Take care! Kim

Jane- I like that... "redecoration of the joint" such a fun non-medical way of describing it. I bead jewelry in my free time, I have decided when my ankle stops swelling and decides what size it is going to be, it is going to get a very special anklet, so not only will my ankle be redocorated on the inside, but on the outside as well.

-Ellen :)

You guys crack me up and keep me smiling! A good friend kidnapped me today. Ater 2 deaths Saturday of father's day (my father figure and my husband's dad) and assorted other medical related drama in this house, she decided I needed a 'fun' day. Went to Target, Harris Teeter, Office Max, Garden Ridge, lunch and Starbucks. WooHoo, food, shopping, java chip frappachino and 2 electric buggies all in one day!!! Wore me out and my foot is reminding me it is definately there. Started to feel a bit bumbed out that I couldn't even have a goof-off day without pain.
So.... I check the boards and here I read about cast colors, positive recovery stories, and new ankle jewelry. It put a big fat grin on my mug. Thanks guys! :D
jane

Maria, Jane, Eko~
I, too, "use" this forum for relief. Sometimes, in abject misery and self pity, I can log on and come away laughing and feeling so fortunate!!! The inside/outside redecorating is true, and, for me, the same is true of my personality. In the time I've been down, I've become much more aware of people around me, tolerant, and patient. I was NEVER patient, and people who know me remark on the changes. I don't like not working, don't like "relaxing", it really isn't relaxing!!! But I've learned to, and feel this timeout has been good for me. Take care, ladies, and have a great 4th!!! Kim

I walk.:bouncing: :bouncing: :bouncing:
I'm not sure how much weight, but I stood, leaning, and had no pain in the new foot! The boot makes my rt leg a bit longer, so it gives my left leg some minor pain. Also I have to really concentrate on walking straight, heel to toe, my body really wants to go back to how I walked before. Dad said I walked like a duck. Left, good foot in alignment, right foot perpendicular. I have no more stiffness or soreness this morning than before, so it looks as if this is going to be a cakewalk. I think my real issues will be more when I take the boot off. Whoo-hoo!!!!!!!!!! Kim

Hi ya'll :wave:

Well, for the most part I have ditched the cruthes with the exception of uneven terrain. I am still wearing the brace. Of course PT doesn't know, because I haven't even started :p (sore subject). I also put myself back on my exercise bike again for my knee (it also had a six week vacation), to get it back in shaoe and also for some cardio endurance.

Kim, it is funny you you describe throwing your right foot out to the side, because I do the same thing. It must be out of habit more than anything else, I really have to focus placing it more straight when I walk. Two weeks until my next Dr. appt, we have a few things to discuss, but all in all I'd say the ankle is doing pretty well.

Hope all of you are doing well. -Ellen :D

Ellen~:wave:
Great! It sounds like you're ahead of schedule, pt or no pt! When is your next pt visit? Does the brace you wear have a rocker boot? Or is it a flat sole? Curious, as always!
My OS had said pwb, increase as tolerated, always in boot, so I've been experimenting. No problems with weight, but without the crutches, I'm not sure if I'd stay balanced, the heel rounded as it is. Boot on, I'm great. I don't harbor any fantasies, I know it will be hard when I take it off, but for now I'm thankful this is so much easier than I expected.
I still get no lateral motion, and my up-and-down is not much. Marble pick up is getting better, but toes stay up unless I'm concentrating.
I'm very anxious to find out if my rod and screws are still in place. I'd swear they have pulled loose, and are right up under the skin, but because it doesn't hurt too bad, I wonder if she (nurse) wasn't right, and I really am feeling scar tissue, except for the screw head. That I know is real.
Ellen, I know it's habit, our bodies got so used to compensating, but I'm really curious about it. I really have to look at my R foot, force it to go the way it should, and it's odd, but when it does go straight, I nearly trip over my L foot!!! I'm sorry you have to work so hard at it, :( but I'm also selfishly encouraged to know I'm not the only one! Take care, everyone! Kim

Hey Kim and Ellen :wave:

I'm so glad to see that you're both making such great progress, and I wish you both all the best.

I'd also like to thankyou for being so helpful and supportive.

Make sure that you both keep updating here so I can see how you are!

Maria xxx

Kim,

The brace I am in is a a aircast stirrup brace that fits in my shoe (okay, well a size bigger). I can move my foot up and down, just not side to side. So, I am in a tennis shoe with this brace walking around. I start PT on 7/11 - so next week, but I see my Dr. on 7/19. I am glad to get rid of the crutches, makes life to much easier - the joy of being able to use my hands to carry things again!

Here is to taking it one day at a time, one step at a time!
-Ellen:)

Kim,

The brace I am in is a a aircast stirrup brace that fits in my shoe (okay, well a size bigger). (Oooooh, I WANT one!!!) I can move my foot up and down, just not side to side. (This would SO work for me, I'll bet I could LOSE the crutches!)So, I am in a tennis shoe with this brace walking around. If it fits inside a shoe, I could order my work shoes in a bigger size and go back to work!) I start PT on 7/11 - so next week, but I see my Dr. on 7/19. (I'll pray for you, that both appts go well. )I am glad to get rid of the crutches, makes life to much easier - the joy of being able to use my hands to carry things again!(I've been thinking about that. When I heard I was ready to walk, I was ready to take the chair back, but I'm so dang independent, don't want to have to go back to asking people to move/do stuff for me, so I kept it.)

Here is to taking it one day at a time, one step at a time!Salud
-Ellen:)Take care!

Maria~
Thank you for your kind thoughts and sentiments. Please, when you post next, tell us how your pt is going. Are you locking less? Getting stronger? Take care, Kim

Well, my PT is on hold for the moment, I requested to have it transferred to a hospital closer to my house, and it'll take a while for it to get processed.

I'm seeing the surgeon in a little under a week (11th), unfortunately, the locking is still the same. As I've said, I'm not using my crutches, but after being on my feet for a while (10 minutes or so) it starts to ache. It's a very dull, toothache type of sensation, that's pretty vague and difficult to pin point.

I had the exact same type of pain before my surgery, the only difference was that it took a little longer to kick in, usually around 45 minutes of walking around or being on my feet.

Though, I suppose the soreness at the moment is to be expected, it's still early days.

x

Ellen-

Today is the big day, eh? Don't you start PT (finally) today? Good luck and hope it goes well. Who knows; maybe you will get a good looking guy with a very soft touch!

Let us know how it went!
jane

Hi ya'll-

Had PT this morning. Sorry Jane, no good looking guy;) ! I feel like I am on the right track and have been doing the right things at home too. I liked the machine that did the work for me, stretching - that was new.

This weekend I decided to ditch the aircast stirrup brace in favor of my ASO brace. One it is more comfortable, two I can wear it in my regular shoes which makes my good foot happier and me too:D .

I am back to see my Dr. next week on the 19th, we have a few things to discuss regarding expectations and limitations, especially since I also have an issue with flat footedness on the same foot, hoping the answer is orthotics. It is always something.

All in all, one step at a time.
-Ellen

eko~
I'm glad the pt visit went well. Awesome that you ditched the bigger brace! Are you now walking without assistance, then, or still using crutches? I hope all goes well with the Doc. Take care.

Maria~
How long do you have to wait? I'm sorry you're still hurting and locking. I'll pray for you. Keep us posted on how you are doing!

Hi, Jane!
:wave:

I'm still doing the pwb in the boot, and stretching without it. Some improvement in my rom, but not as much as I'd thought. Still no side-to-side. Walking is good, and I know I could do it without the crutches if I could balance. The skin has gotten so much better now, with regular washing!!! Take care, all. Kim

Hey again,

I have no idea how long I'll be waiting for PT, it could come through at any time.

I saw the surgeon again yesterday. He said that the surgery was no quick fix and that it will really be a matter of months to see if it's been completely successful. He said that the work was quite extensive, and that the bruising alone will take 6 weeks to heal fully, and it's only been 4 how. I have an appointment to see him in 3 months time, hopefully it'll be fine.

x

Hey Kim,

Yes, I am walking without assistance:bouncing: ! I am also picking up speed on those nice flat level surfaces, I still trend carefully on uneven surfaces. This weekend I am thinking about treking around the house without the brace just to see how it does and to make it less dependent on the brace, after all, only four weeks until vacation, braces and sand do not go well together.

Glad to hear you are progressing! Here we are, all healing one step at a time!

Take care!
-Ellen

Maria~
Hopefully it will come soon. Are you doing some exercises on your own while you wait, or are you supposed to wait for help/instruction/etc.? I know, when I actually think about it, that it hasn't been so long for you, but pain and locking joints when you're trying to walk? A day of that is TOO long! Anyway, I sympathise, and pray with you. You have a great, positive attitude, and the determination to do what you need to, in no time at all you will be bouncing up and down... Take care, and let us know! K

Great, Ellen!!! Wow, are you going to wear a wrap? A smaller brace? Or just play around to see what you can do with nothing but your shoe? Be careful, Sis, you KNOW what you've been through to get here, and we all know you don't wanna go there again!!! And for what? Come-on, half the joy of the beaches is trying to navigate in damp sand, and the other half is in scratching, itching, going nuts, discovering all the odd places sand can find! Why not make it even more fun by giving it more places to hide!!! Kiddin. I hope you continue to progress, and get to do your vacation the way you want to. Take care. Kim

Kim~
I am going to traipse around the house in my socks and shoes, no brace and no wrap to see how it goes. I will be careful, but got to start somewhere. It has been 11 weeks.

And yes, I know the places sand can go, I'd prefer to keep as much possible on the beach if I can :jester: !

-Ellen

Hi Ladies,

Sorry but I couldn't help but read the entire thread. I'm facing the decision of surgery for my OCD + Brostrom repair. Bummer. I have 2 opinions so far and am waiting for a 3rd one this coming Thursday.

Dr. 1 said I need the OCD + Brostrom and that I would be in a cast (fiberglass type) for 3 MONTHS. Is she scaring me? I'm reading from you all that it would be about 6 weeks.

Dr. 2 said I should try these PT exercises for treating flatfootness and post tibia tendonitis. Maybe that will alleviate the pain. If that doesn't work, I can always fall back on surgery. I'm not totally convinced that mere exercises will help my original problem - talar dome fissures and severly sprained lateral ligaments.

The original injury happened in 12/04. Doctor finally gave me cortizone shots after month 1 and month 2 because the swelling didn't go away. Started PT in Jan 05 to end of May 05. Got stronger. Went down again 9/05 and had been in pain most of the time. Pain walking, standing for more than a few minutes, etc. Basically, I felt the ankle is getting worse.

Any insights? Your posts really gives me a heads up as to what I might be going through if I opt for the surgery.

:(

Dear Saws-

Good to meet you. I am getting the OCD and Brostrom (plus a few other things) getting done on the 21st. My post is "ankle instability and surgery" Without knowing your preferences, I would say try surgery, as you have already demonstrated that you are bound to keep re-injuring the foot over and over due the instability. OCD issues do not heal on own, they just hurt more and deteriorate more as time goes on. Just my 2 cents...

Are doc1 or doc2 podiatrists or ortho docs? Do they specialize in feet and ankle? I would go to a 'foot and ankle' OS for another opinion if the conflicting advise gives you questions. Nothing wrong with getting another mind working on the solution. I would also ask them how many injuries like yours have they treated. In my mind, the more the better since practice makes perfect, eh?

3 months in a cast sounds like along time, unless they are referring to the boot as a cast (many do). I can tell you I was told I would actually be in a combination of things (splint, cast, boot, brace) for several months along with rehab; but I would be NWB for 6 weeks, then PWB, etc.

jane

Saws-

Sorry to hear of your problems. It looks like you have to very different diagnosis and treatments from your first two Drs. As Jane asked, what kind of Dr's are these OS, OS-Foot and Ankle Specialist or Podiatrists?

To break it down, if you have an OCD, it will only worse with time and cause more problems. Did any of you Dr.s tell you what stage your OCD is in? Have you had an MRI? Mine actually started crumbling, leaving a lot of loose bodies floating in my ankle joint.

Brostrom Repair-pretty much a straight forward tendon repair or tightening.

You also talked about PTT and flat footedness - is this only on the one foot since the injury? Adult acquired? Frankly, it all could be related, and PTT and flat footedness can be treated in the end through exercises and arch supports, that that will not help the OCD issue at all.

My experience for the Brostrom and OCD was NWB for no more that 6 weeks, then PWB aircast/CAM walker (more for the Brostrom then OCD), then FWB.

I know at this point it is so overwhelming to hear so much is wrong with your foot and ankle, especially when you are in pain. Make sure you are seeing a OS-Foot and Ankle Specialist and ask lot of questions.

Let us know what you learn at your next appointment and if you have any other questions in the meantime, feel free to ask.

-Ellen

Ellen:

How has your trip around the house gone with no brace???? I can't imagine ever getting to that point...it seems so far away.

Since my last post my ankle has felt much better. My doc did tell me that I could use my old aircast splint for support if I felt I needed it. He said that he wants the joint moving as much as possible so it can mold the new growth from the drilling. I have been wearing it when I am up and about and at night and I feel so much better.

I am a bit concerned about one thing...after your OCD repair did you experience any locking in the back of your ankle? I have never had any locking in where seems to be my Achilles Tendon area. It happens almost every time I move my ankle up and down. I hope that this is not a sign of more problems. My ankle is not catching in the area of where the OCD is and that area is only painful when I bend it too much, then it is not the same catching that I am used to from before the surgery...it just is sore and painful.

If it keeps up I guess I need to call my doctor.......always something.

Thanks for listening.

Lisa

Hi Ellen & Jane,

Yes, Dr1 and Dr2 are surgeons from the Foot & Ankle Clinics of separate large hospitals. Both hospitals are teaching hospitals too. The upcoming Dr3 (also specialist) is with a slightly smaller 3rd hospital. I guess I'm pretty lucky to have all these specialist around here and not have to drive 1.5 hours. Whew! Since I don't know the medical tracks much, I can't tell how long they've been working on other poor souls' ankles. That's why I was surprise to hear Dr 2's treatment plan. In my own uneducated (medically) opinion, I also thought I should take care of the original problems first and then the flat footedness. As for that, I was never known to have much of an arch, neither foot. The other leg with the good ankle had a slowly-builtup knee problem about 3 years ago, but seem to have gone away (on its own) about 99% of the time.

I was afraid to hear that OCD just won't get healed on it's own, but to hear about Ellen's "crumbling" ankle - Yikes! My MRI was done a month after the initial injury - 1/05, so it is old. But new x-rays were taken 2 weeks ago and the OCD is still there. Ankle felt quite good yesterday and this morning, so I went to the gym. Parked 2 blocks away. Walked the 2 blocks, spent 15 minutes on the bike and did some upper body resistance exercises (while sitting down), walked back 2 blocks to the car. Now my ankle is sore again. Yep. OCD won't vanish on its own.

Good to know that maybe Dr 1's cast referral meant progressing through different kinds of casts. She was not very specific and frankly, she lost me way back when she talked about drilling bones, etc, and I didn't know better to ask her. She did say "3 months in a cast, and then PT after that." Pretty specific about no PT before 3 months. Hmmm! She said that the first 1.5 months, no bearing weight. From 1.5 month to 3rd month, I can use crutches and walk with the cast.

I'm leaning toward the surgery decision now, but will probably do it after mid-August since I already scheduled a trip to visit family. I'd better start stashing movies and books away. It will be a great time to wrap up some of the unfinished jewelry projects that were started a while back. What a great idea about an anklet to decorate the new foot. I'll make myself a "kit" to work on while I'm down. I'm not looking forward to the recovery process. Sounds painful. It's my driving foot, and from all your experiences, I'd better tell my boss to count on me being out for at least 4 months?

Lisa, even before surgery like now, one of my main painful spot is the achilles. I think since all these muscles and tendons are connected... Yeah, probably ask the doctor about it. Good luck. I've learned to value all my healthy body parts.

Jane, good luck on the 21st. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you then. In the meantime while you are still mobile (relatively), stock up on projects and good books. I learned it the hard way when I went on bed rest for the last 3 months of my pregnancy. I was going bonkers.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and opinions. It really help to have others to "talk" to.

Theresa

:cool: Greetings all!

Well, today I wore nothing on my ankle but my socks and shoes - it felt weird and vulnerable, but what do you expect after being protected that past 11 plus weeks. I even went out of the house - to the library and yes, the grocery store! It wasn't bad, but it is not ready for any long walks or hikes, but you got to start somewhere. Tonight before I go to bed, I will do my PT stretches and exercise and then give my ankle a nice massage. Depending on it is is feeling tomorrow morning, I will probably do it again, but Monday back at work I will probably put the wrap back on at least until after my appointment on Wednesday.

Theresa-I am glad to hear you have so many doctors in your area. You are correct in your thinking that the OCD and Brostrom first. I have acquired flat footedness in the same foot I had the ankle surgery on. We addressed the OCD issue first, then we'll address the rest, because the rest, well, just may not be that big of an issue. Can't tell until the bigger problem is cleared and we stop compensating for the injury. When you go to see Dr. 3 - ask more specific questions about the recovery process. If you haven't before, make a list of questions you want answered, now that you have seen two docs and found us. Let us know what he/she has to say.

Take care everyone - there is a light at the end of the tunnel - one step at a time!

-Ellen

Ellen,

Great to hear that you are out and about after only 11 weeks. Your enthusiasm gives me lots of hope. Great idea about coming up with a list of questions, and it makes sense to take care of the bigger issues first which caused the other side problems. Take good care of your new foot and don't push yourself too hard on your first day back at work.

Theresa

Congrats Ellen!
It must feel odd to be naked in the ankle. Hope this morning it felt not too badly - just a little protesting but no real "pain". Back to work on Monday eh? Must be liberating! Congratulations!

Just don't forget all of us on the boards now that you are fixed:) I am very happy for you!
jane

Hi All,
I do have some silly questions for all of you who's "been there":
- How long did the OS or PT estimate the PT period? 2 months? 3 months?
- While you are NWB, can you use crutches to get around the house, just as long as you don't put the leg down on the floor?
- What about shower privileges?
- Can you sit and put the leg on another chair, so leg is at hip level?
- How long before you can drive (mine is the right ankle)?
- I read on the net that the car insurance companies won't cover damages as a result of "inability to react to emergency situations". Is that true?
- Will it be reasonable to see if the car insurance can pro-rate my premium since I won't be able to drive for a few months? Hey, every penny helps in paying for that medical bill.
- What are some of the pre-op preparations? More doctor visits? New MRI?
- Any other tid-bits you can share?

Thanks, Theresa :confused:

Congrats Ellen!
It must feel odd to be naked in the ankle. Hope this morning it felt not too badly - just a little protesting but no real "pain". Back to work on Monday eh? Must be liberating! Congratulations!

Just don't forget all of us on the boards now that you are fixed:) I am very happy for you!
jane

Oh, I have been back at work since 3.5 weeks. I have an office job, so when I first went back NWB I had an extra chair and pillow in my office so I could prop up my ankle when I needed to. Work has been very gracious in putting up with me, it was part-time until I was PWB when I went full-time.

This morning it actually felt surprisingly good, so the ankle is "naked" again today, but because of the heat I am not out doing much. I still have a Dr. appointment on Wednesday to see what he has to say and more physical therapy to go.

And don't worry, I won't forget the boards, I owe a lot of advice and support for what has been given to me in the past - just passing it on...

~Ellen

Hi All,
I do have some silly questions for all of you who's "been there":
- How long did the OS or PT estimate the PT period? 2 months? 3 months?
- While you are NWB, can you use crutches to get around the house, just as long as you don't put the leg down on the floor?
- What about shower privileges?
- Can you sit and put the leg on another chair, so leg is at hip level?
- How long before you can drive (mine is the right ankle)?
- I read on the net that the car insurance companies won't cover damages as a result of "inability to react to emergency situations". Is that true?
- Will it be reasonable to see if the car insurance can pro-rate my premium since I won't be able to drive for a few months? Hey, every penny helps in paying for that medical bill.
- What are some of the pre-op preparations? More doctor visits? New MRI?
- Any other tid-bits you can share?

Thanks, Theresa :confused:

Answers (based on my experience)
PT - approx. 6 weeks (This round I go 2x per week)

NWB - yes, you can use crutches. If you are uncomfortable getting around on them, or want to get out of the house for longer periods of time, rent a wheel chair. I used a combination during my NWB period.

Showers - okay as long as you keep the cast dry. I had a chair in the shower to sit on that I nabbed when my grandmother went into the nursing home. I have heard of others using stools or lawn chairs for the same purpose.

Yes, you can sit with your leg elevated to hip level on another chair.

Driving - I didn't drive until after six weeks when I was PWB and put in a brace.

Insurance info is correct.

Another MRI, unlikely. Another pre-op Dr. visit, possibly depending onyou and the Dr.

Other tidbits: Have things to keep you occupied, books, movies, etc. Multiple ice packs that are flexible. To keep your cast dry, you can purchase a cast protector, but I used a garbage bag and before I tied a string around it, I folded a hand towel and wrapped it around the top of the leg and teid the string over it and tuck the garbage bag in. Make meals and freeze ahead of time, that way they just need to be warmed up, unless you have someone else who likes to cook. Look around and think about what it's going to be like and what would make things easier for you. Get post-op meds ahead of time if possible.

I am sure there are others with advice out there, pick what is best for you.

~Ellen

:( I was all set for my appointment on Wednesday to see my Dr. and I get a call, they have to reschedule my appointment because he needs to be in surgery. Now I have to wait until next week to see what he has to say, oh yeah and my appointment is at 3:50pm which is more like 4:30 or 5:00 by that time of the day and add a 3 hour drive home to that.

Anyway, I have PT yet this morning so I'd better get moving, see what kind of torture she has set up for me today.

I hope that all of you are doing well. Take care ~Ellen

Ellen,

That stinks that your appt. had to be moved up a week. I know how ya feel! At least they were courteous enough to call you and notify you before you made a trip all the way there. I know from experience...lol. Anyways, hope all is going well with the ankle and PT.

Megan

Sorry about the doc appt, but, yes, be glad you got a call, lol. SO? What kind of torture are you now getting? How's the normal sock/shoe walking coming? Let us know! Take care. :wave: Kim

Hello all~

I have been thinking of all of you, just haven't been out posting much lately.

Went to the Dr. yesterday, he has discharged me with instructions.

I have no restrictions, but learned yesterday that I had really messed up the cartilage in my ankle. That combined with previous injurues has left me with with a lot of arthritis in the joint. Do to that situation I should not expect to do regular weight-bearing exercise any more. Biking and swimming are the name of the game. I am disappointed, a little bummed right now about that, here I am 42 with an 80 year old ankle. I am going on vacation in two weeks, part of it camping, part involves sand and water, and general lounging. He told me if I push my ankle to much, I will hurt (ie no three mile hikes or walks), so I am going to be packing ice packs and a brace just in case. I'll just have to find my tolerance level and move on from there.

The no brace walking is going well, the doc was fine with what I did, actually pleased. I did brace this past weekend when I was out at Boy Scout Camp because I am not entirely comfortable on uneven surfaces yet. Better safe than sorry I figured.

I have one last assignment besides finishing PT and that is to go back to my Podiatrist. I have acquire a flatfoot due to previous surgery/injury and need to discuss a support for my foot. My DPM loves me, he did my Brostrom Repair and great toe fusion, now I have a new challenge for him, all on the same :dizzy: foot!

Well, that's it for now! ~Ellen

Ellen,

Thats great that you got dc'd from the doc! I understand how you feel when you say you feel as if you have an 80 year old ankle. I am 20 and feel like I have the ankle of a 60 year old due to now having arthritis in the ankle too. Before I ever hurt my ankle, I was a runner, and have had to totally give that up. I took up cycling, which is great for a bum ankle, as it is low-impact. But go figure...I cycle and still end up hurting myself.

Thats interesting that you have a acquired flat-foot issue also. After I had my brostrom, I developed a flat foot in the same ankle. MRI showed a partially torn post-tib tendon. I have no clue how that happened. Doc had me get custom orthotics which don't do a thing for it...they were a waste of money. What type of treatment are you going to pursue with your DPM?

Megan

Ellen:

:) I am so glad to hear that your ankle is healing. From reading your posts it has been a very long road for you. It is a bummer to go through so much and still have pain in your ankle.

I can't imagine at this point ever getting to the point that you are at. Seems like an eternity since I have had no pain in my ankle and now I have apparently messed up what my surgery corrected. I posted today my bad news. :p

Lisa

Hi Ellen,

Sorry to hear about the arthritis. You know what, one of the orthos I saw also advised biking and swimming. Just have to switch gear but still get good workout and muscles, especially with swimming. Another co-worker fell from a chair once and was told having to wear orthotics and will have arthritis as well, and he is in his late 20s or early 30s.

I'm the one who has flat-foot but it didn't bother my uninjured foot. If I didn't have to walk funny to avoid the pain spot on my bad ankle, flat footedness wouldn't have bother me. So, it might not be a big issue after all. You might just have to be on the alert. There are PT exercises to strengthen the arch too.

Keep up the good spirit and be happy that you are doing so well with your ankle. You worked hard to get to where you are.

Keep smiling.;)

Theresa

Thats interesting that you have a acquired flat-foot issue also. After I had my brostrom, I developed a flat foot in the same ankle. MRI showed a partially torn post-tib tendon. I have no clue how that happened. Doc had me get custom orthotics which don't do a thing for it...they were a waste of money. What type of treatment are you going to pursue with your DPM?


Megan,

I am not sure what type of treatment I am going to pursue with my DPM, all I know is that I am looking for a non-surgical route. My DPM and I have a pretty good relationship, I am not one to mince words with him, so he will be pretty clear on what I want. My OS has a theory that with Brostrom, and the fusion (after a bunionectomy) that the structure of my foot has been changed resulting in the flat footedness. I currently wear a custom orthotic in my other shoe for PF and it has been working great for several years. I have been experimenting with an inexpensive OTC orthotic just to see how that works and to be honest I can't tell to much at this time. I see my DPM 8/21, the day after I return from vacation, so I am sure I will have a lot to report when I see him. I'll let you know what he has to say in about four weeks.

~Ellen

Lisa, saw your bad news - that just sucks!

Theresa, I found some exercise for flat feet that are suppose to help strengthen the arch. I have incorporated some into my home PT program and some I do under my desk at work. I am going to ask my DPM about them when I see him. Some of the exercise require you to be standing and I am not sure my ankle is up for that yet, but the ones that can be done sitting down, I am working on. I may be down, but I am not out.

Everyone continue to take care! ~Ellen:wave:

Ellen, you probably know about toe curls, which you do sitting down. There's another one where you sit down and use toes to drag a weighted down towel, going from side to side. Then there's one that I know of which you have to stand - pushing toes down toward the ground while raising the arch. Don't do this yet if your ankle is not ready for standing. I'm sure your PT will come up with others.

It stinks to end up with these "side effects".

Theresa, I also found an exercise where you try to curl your foot into a fist, hold and release. It is a little odd with a fused big toe, but feels pretty good and works the entire foot. I am actually doing that one with both feet when I am trying to work up the energy to get out of bed in the morning :yawn: . I am going on vacation soon and plan on sitting on the beach with my feet in the sand doing some foot exercises when I am not floating on the lake - ahhhh, relaxation.
~Ellen

Ellen~
I'm glad you've progressed to some relative freedom! Sorry, though, that you still have so much work to do... Hopefully your DPM will be able to rx exercises that will help, and outfit you with an orthotic that works for your flatfootedness. I don't envy you, knowing there is still a lot of trial and error ahead, but I know you're committed enough to persevere until you get er done! Take care, and please, let us know how you make out. There are lots of us behind you, watching to see how it goes! Thank you for taking your time to tell of your experiences. Kim

Perservence ..... like when insurance denies your refereal to see your DPM :blob_fire ? Yeppers, that they did this week. I had a criptic message from my PC doc's nurse, and sure enough, the denial letter came the next day. At least my PC Doc is trying, she sent in more info, so we will see how she makes out. I knew insurance would not cover the orthotic, but I would like the to cover the Dr's visit.

Meanwhile, PT is progressing, I have one more session before vacation. I have managed to piss off what I believe is the tendon that runs down the top of the foot along the inside of the first metatarsal. Talked to my therapist today, she agreed with me and told me to lay off some of the home program for a little while. I see my PC doc next week, hope to finally get off the coumadine therapy, and if the tendon is not getting any better, then we have a new reason for the referral to my DPM. - take that insurance!

So, I leave for vacation in less than a week - yippeeee! So much to do, so little time. Need to pack the ankle it's own little bag of goodies, just in case.

That's my latest news.

All of you take care!
~Ellen

Oh, God. EKO, you have such luck! And humor, too. Hope your tendon isn't too angry with you, but milk it for a covered visit. Stick it to the man!!! Sorry. I'm grousy about ins companies. (The neighbor's house burned down last week, and their ins agent is playing word games with my dad. "Sir, let me explain to you that liability coverage means they had to have caused the fire." His rv was pretty well ruined, fiberglass top and side facing their house is melted, vents and ac units melted too. Lord knows if any wiring, etc. was damaged. He got scared the gas tanks or propane would be a problem, so he moved it down the hill. The vinyl siding just replaced after hail damage is now melted off on that side. Fire marshal wasn't feeling good and did not think he could id the source, so didn't come. This is what the report says!!!) That vacation is well-earned, and sounds like heaven! I hope you are over the angry tendon by then, and able to enjoy this. Take care, girl, and keep us posted! Kim

Gotta love my PC doc:), well, most of the time! She came through for me on the referral to my DPM. She asked for an extension on the initial referral that started the entire chain of events that led to surgery on the ankle to begin with. I have an appointment with her on Monday, we'll talk about the tendonitis in my foot - she's just going to roll her eyes :dizzy: .

I hope of you are doing well. Take care! ~Ellen

Ellen,

Glad the DPM auth worked out. Hope the tendon behaves soon, at least before the vacation starts! Have a great time and enjoy the water-
jane

Getting ready for the camping part of the vacation, as soon as as DH gets home, we are out of here. The kids and I just loaded up the pop-up and worked up a sweat getting it folded down. This is going to test my foot and ankle. At PT my therapist told me not to step in any holes, but she felt it was strong enough to handle the terrain. As for the tendonitis, I plan on wrapping my foot in coban (have some cool colors) for compression. I also have packed an ice bag and my ASO brace just in case. I have to admit I was impressed with myself getting in and out of the camper with the steps, but I have the feeling I will ache tonight.

I'll check in on all of you before part two of my vacation, when we rid ourselves of the pop-up and do laundry before heading to the lake.

Take care over the next several days!
~Ellen

It sounds like some of the people on this board are looking to turn for swimming for exercise. Maybe some biking too. Swimming and biking are my main forms of exercise and my passions (I do a bit of running and do triathlons but the ankle doesn't like to run much). Some unsolicited advice:

1. Swimming - check out Total Immersion. Terry Laughlin is the founder of Total Immersion and has written a number of books and even has a DVD. Regardless of your level of swimming TI will help you swim better and enjoy it more. I have become much more efficient and my swimming has really improved. If you swim better you'll like it better. If you like it better you'll do it more often and swim longer when you are out there.

2. Biking - there are great biking clubs out there and great charity rides. I find that it is easiest to get out and get on my bike when I have a big charity ride (like the MS150) or a triathlon coming up. Go ahead and just sign up for a group ride or charity ride a few months away and then go train. Its great motivation.

Ellen~
You are such an encouragement here, and I hope you enjoy this trip!!! With your positive mindset, I know you will do lots, and be sore, but enjoy every minute. Take care! Kim

Hello everyone,

I had my operation on the osteochondral defect/fracture yesterday, as well as a Bostrum ligament repair at the same time. Bit like Eko but both at the same time! I couldn't feel much in the foot after the operation, probably due to the anaesthetic they injected below the knee, but today, the pain is really kicking in!

Does anyone have tips for things I should do following the operations eg. avoiding certain foods, keeping the legs raised, anything to reduce the pain etc?

Thanks

David

David: Welcome.
My advice:
1. Set an alarm to wake up in the night to take pain meds.
2. Start taking a laxative now. Pain meds cause constipation
3. Buy a shower cast cover and some anti-itch cast spray stuff. You can find them online pretty easily.
4. Stay ahead of the pain with the pain meds. Don't wait until it hurts, take the meds when the prescription says too.
5. Elevate, elevate, elevate.
6. Take it easy. In retrospect I got up and did too much too soon. It didn't affect my healing, it was just a lost opportunity to lay around and read, watch movies and relax. There was really no need for me to being doing dishes 3 days post op. I should have had my wife wait on me more.
7. Be careful on the steps with crutches. I fell twice.

I had two surgeries - one for debridement (remove bone spurs, smooth out damaged cartiledge, remove floating stuff) and then a brostrom repair. I found that the first seven days after the brostrom were pretty painful but a lot better after that. I think I moved off the prescription pain killers to over the counter at about day nine or so.

Hi, David.
While you're on any narcotic painkillers, stomach trouble and constipation are possible. If you're sickened, eat food before each dose. Bread, crackers, broth, whatever you can stand. Plain saltines and soda water or ginger ale do help some. If bowel trouble develops, go with higher fiber breads and cereals, and avoid binding foods like cheese...
Staying on a schedule with pain meds helps, if you go beyond your thresh-hold, it can take several dose periods to get back on top of it. Protecting your splints with towels and applying ice helps. Elevation is supremely helpful, initially required more often and for longer periods, and you'll find gradually you can bear longer dangling times. Your body will tell you, with swelling, throbbing, and lovely colors in your toes, that you need to rest. Better to rest initially and avoid having to be told!!!
You're brave to do both at once! One was difficult for me. But you've lots of good company here, and will find all kinds of advise and suuport. Post when you can and let us know how you are!!! Kim

Thank you for the kind replies.

Kim - I'm not so sure I was being brave in having the two done at the same time. I'm actually from the UK, and here we have the National Health Service which the State's health service. I suspect its the Government trying to save money as I was simply told that I would be having both done at the same time! In fact, I found out more about the operation from this thread than I did from my surgeon!

I wondered if people could shed some light on a couple of other symptoms I'm experiencing?

Firstly, I'm constantly thirsty throughout the day. I've probably drunk about 3-4 litres of fluids today already - anything from water, orange juice, diet coke etc. I'm never usually this thirsty.

Secondly, I find that I get tired really easily and sleep alot during the day. Today I've probably slept about 6-7 hours on and off during the day. Is this typical?

David~ Don't remember being thirsty after my foot surgeries, but I sure was tired. It took me weeks to get my energy back; I was pretty frustrated by it. I think that trauma from the surgery might cause some of the fatigue, but lying around during recovery probably also saps one's strength.

Hi Kathy. How you doin? I pray all is well!!!:wave:

Hi David,
Your body has been, as far as it knows, poisoned and traumatized, and is working very hard to survive the attack. Fatigue is normal, and could linger awhile. Pain meds contribute to it as well. When you are up and about, be patient with yourself, it takes time to get back to normal.
I can't figure the thirst. The surgery shouldn't, but the meds might. How is your health in general? And is this a very extreme increase for you? Drink plenty of water, for whatever reason, you need it. (And it helps in the bathroom.) Take care. Kim

Thanks. ;)

David,

I was dying of thirst after my last surgery and it was due to the tube shoved down my throat during surgery. It eventually passed after a few days.

Sorry to hear you have joined us on the board, but you are more than welcome to ask questions, rant or just ask for support.

Take care of yourself and your ankle, you have got a long healing process ahead!

~eko

Hi ya'll,

I have been off camping the last several days with my family. I have done more with this ankle than I have ever done in PT.

I also found this great quote... "If you wait until you're sure, you'll never take off the training wheels."

The training wheels were off. Uneven terrain, playing mini-putt up and down a huge hill (loved those steps and steep climbs), and balancing in a wave pool at the water park. Day 3 about did me in, my ankle was tight, the achilles tendon was tight, so that night I went to the pool and walked around, and then to the hot tub, did some stretching to see if I could loosen up the ankle. It was the only night I took Tylenol before going to bed because the ankle just ached. Today, it's not too bad, but tomorrow it is off to Lake Michigan and the beach:cool: . Workout in the sand!

Hope all is going well with all of you!
Take care! ~Ellen