Does autism effect any of your children in a simillar way to my child and do any of you experience the same frustration, I am having at present with Anthony's teacher.
My son is a very bright clever wee boy who has very stong visual skills. He can problem solve very easily and if the task is visual he can work it out with ease. He recently broke into the class computer by reading the passwords on the wall. When they changed the passwords and and took it off the wall he just watched their fingers when typing and quickly got a hold of the new password. So while he was meant to be painting The staff turned there backs when they turned back round Anthony was on the internet playing pac man. Anthony is at a special needs school the children in his class all have a varitety of learning difficulties. From day one i explained to his teacher Anthony doesn't seem to have a learning difficulty he has difficulty in learning due to the language barrier and other autistic traits.

Anthony's grasp of language is very poor and he often stumbles around his small volcabulary till he finds the word he is looking for. When talking to him you have to keep your language short and sweet. he can understand a few words He also looks for contextual clues to help him.

Because he appears very bright anthony's teacher has it in her head that he knows more than he makes out and that he can understand her but he is choosing to shut her off. I have spoke with her about it many times, I have arranged meetings with the head teacher about it I have spoke with the language therapist but she's a bit usless. I have given her chapters on the minimal speach approach. There is not much else I can do.

I was on the phone with her again yesterday and she was telling me how anthony had a bit of a tantrum over a DVD in a shop. I couldn't believe my ears when she said "I took him outside and had a long chat with him explaining why he could not have the DVD" and then commented on how this did not have much effect.DUH.
i was about to launch into another tirade when she realised her mistake and then went on to try and justify it. i told her all she has to say was no DVD bye bye and walk him quickly away, having long chats with Anthony only adds to his levels of stress.
I asked her why she keeps chatting to him. She says she does it and hopes something will click and again says if you bombared him with information then hopefully some of it will stick.She stated that she feels he is so clever and that I am not giving him the credit he deserves.
Am i completely missing something here. I commend her, for her insight into anthony's level of intelligence but why can't she understand that the visual skills and the language skills are two different things.
I don't know what else to do. She just keeps marching on. I am at the stage now I want to shake her. I have another meeting set up on Tuesday with the SLT so i will see if she could help but i am not holding out much hope.
I feel better now I have managed to get all that off my chest :blob_fire
bernadette

I am sorry B that you are having such troubles and can relate to the wall you have seem to hit with the teacher's type of thinking.

When our son was first having problems my DH and I took a course for parents with Children who have ASD/PDD. This course gave us strategies to talk to our son and communicate with him and to teach him how to communicate and the biggest premises of all is SSS (say less, stress, and go slow). By doing this we are not treating our children like dummies, we are giving them the important words or meaning of the communication to them....OMG I now use these strategies for my 16 month old who is typically developing. She is actually learning to say more words clearly than my first two typical children did.

I used to think like the teacher you are dealing with and was having a hard time cutting down on the words I used and was feeling bad like I wasn't given my son credit for having a brain in his head......but we can't have our children bombarded with words. My typical four year old who understands tunes me out....so I get to the point when I speak with him.....this course was awesome to turn my thinking around.

The example I have used for my parents who did not want to confirm was foreign languages. What if someone spoke a whole long string of german words...what would you understand? HOw lost would you feel? B if you know a second language and the teacher doesn't bombard her with an entire speech and then ask what she got out of it. Then say three words in the foreign language and see if she understands (both examples have the same meaning). I think it would be easier to understand the less number of words.

B...I hope something of what I have said has helped. I just can't believe that special needs teaches are not well informed themselves. I am finding that out with our teacher as well.

All the best to you and your son.

Im going thru alot right now with my girl and her school .I have nothing against them i really like all of them and take my hat off to them for what they do its just frustrating that alot of the behaviours with her being in the spectrum they dont understand . At the begining of the year i wrote a story about what to expect from her and im at it again heres whats up.Her teacher has been out due to illness so one of the aides is quote Im in charge and you know how that gos anyway my girl is high functioning she has alot of ocd though its part of her spectrum disorder it gets in the way of her learning so her focus is not up to par thats why shes in special ed in the first place.Shes smart but has a learning disability i wish they would see this.She likes to wear certain things the aide said its getting in her way i said ok and i told my girl leave it at home and told her how they feel at school and they dont want it there they felt its getting in your way and you keep talking about the items at school instead of doing your work your letting your ocd take over she said no im not they are making it up anyway she snuck it in her bag and put it on after i dropped her off in the morning i got a note saying i thought we agreed on this leaving her things at home! Like im a delinquent parent!Sorry im livid right now!I said sorry she snuck it on we told her leave it at home .Shes in time out at home this weekend for this. Anyway to make a long story short we took this problem away but with her its going to be something else getting her off task again she has ocd and i posted the aide about this i feel i have ocd i have to keep telling them over and over again at the school she has ocd its part of her spectrum disorder some days its ok some days its not it waxes and wanes . Dont they know this stuff with their training for special ed?Wheres the school psycologist to train them in this?You no while im thinking about this im going to call the school psycologist and have a IEP meeting about this there never present at my girls IEP meetings? Also shes up in her grade level this year with inclusion they always had her a grade behind doing art work not lanuage arts .They have her in launage arts and they are throwing 4th grade spelling words at her she never even had any spelling words to study at home till now like i said she was in inclusion with art class these past years. She doesnt know how to spell alot of simple words because they never taught her them.There givn her words like birdbath i would think she would have to learn single words first like bird then bath then when she knows the spelling go on to putting them together its crazy im not happy with this im going to the main office if i have to.Im thinking about doing home school could someone post on how to go about doing it.Thankyou very much for listening.

I am sorry your having those issues. We have had similiar issues and are now having another set of issues with the teachers at my childs school. I would suggest an IEP meeting with the principal, director of special ed services, school's behavioral specialist, and the teachers. Maybe you can all agree on how to handle situations.

I attended a TEACH conference last year. On their video, they explained the kids aren't trying to be bad, they just aren't making the 'appropriate' connection between their actions and the bad behavior. I had to remind my childs teachers of that earlier this school year. We had positive results.

Hi im new to the forum. My son 5 and i am home educating him now due to school issues. He is in asd assessments now and fingers crossed will get a diagnosis 6th march.He stuggles with communication and interaction even though has has language and swears alot in public aswell as home. A simple trip to the local shop is hard and everything in dailly life is a struggle, i am worn out!!!

Thanks Jana the only ones who attend her IEP is her main Teacher,Speech specialist,OTwhom she hasnt got any services from yet my girl said i never worked out with her this year and the Special Education coordination person who takes notes.I agree wheres the behaviour specialist.I would think they would mention this service at IEP for a child with a dx as autism spectrum disorder ,behaviour and socialization disorder are with her spectrum maybe they dont want to offend maybe something to do with the higher ups being a tight wad i hope not,the district gets a lot of money for special needs children,and that money is for the students needs only. I dont know whats up here, but im going to be the one to mention it shes needs it, it would be good for her and them.They give time outs etc ,positive learning etc but i think she needs more than that, from a specialist.They already have a full plate with her .Thanks Alot. Great Board ive learned alot from All of You. :angel:

I had a similar problem with the Autism teacher who had a "cookie cutter" idea of what Autism is and since D is high functioning he did not fit her mold. Whenever D. worked with her he would come home so frustrated and out of sorts. I think when you have a teacher like that there is really nothing you can do. So I "fired" her and had him taken out of the program and placed in a regular setting with the support services he needs.


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D. also had sensory issues and was also diagnosed with an auditory processing disorder. My D. is also a visual learner.

This has got me thinking Gialda..
Can any one give me your opinion. I live in Scotland so the set up is a little different.
My son was dx at the age of 18mths with ASD at that time we were told he was moderate to severe (leaning more to the severe side). At that time Anthony was showing all the signs of a severely autistic child. He self harmed, threw tantrums, would not come near anyone. (When he did go to an adult, he made no distinction between me and a stranger, Often went up to adult in shops to get them to open his juice etc). He spun things, he opened and shut doors for hours on end. He had night tremmors, he hand flapped... just about every symptom Anthony displayed it in some form or other.

Bare with me I will get to the point soon, I promise.

We have now done lots of work with Anthony. Anthony was on a programme at age 3 till 4 that just turned him and his life around. Although the actually therapy ended at age 4 the programme was parent inclusive. I still carry on the programme at home. (although the school drives me mad at times) They are fantastic and have taken on a lot of my suggestions.
My thoughts now are if Anthony was to be reassessed would he now be given a different dx? A lot of the symptoms he had at 18mths have now gone. In the two years since he started school he has came on so much he is a very different wee boy altogther.
I have never heard of semantic pragmatic disorder or auditory processing disorder.( But I am away to look them up. )
When i mentioned anthony's school problems (on this board) some people assumed Anthony is a HFA, Reading between the lines do you think he is? I have had this argument with his educational psychologist who said HFA and Asbergers are the same thing. I was arguing that Anthonhy was HFA with a severe language problem. She said well then that is classed as Autism.

I hope some of you have stayed with me as this is so long.

The reason this is so important is where i live, As parents we have a few school options.
1.mainsteam with an unqualified assisstant - Anthony would not get past the first day!
2. An autistic untit in a mainstream school most children here have a dx of asbergers.
3. An autism specific class in a severe learning difficulties school. Very bleak and just not an option I went to visit and ran out the door.
4. A mixed disability class in a well run (although not perfect) moderate/severe learning disability class. where he gets SLT music therapy swimming lessons and many many more benefits.
I choose option 4
Now I am wondering if he is a HFA should he be in option 2 with an assisstant.
Well my fellow parents I am looking for some views before I take this to a review
My biggest worry with Anthony is, if the language in a class is too high (option 2) he will just shut off (thats why an assisstant in the class 1.1 might be an option, that i haven't thought of before. I was advised against it because they just said he wasn't Asbergers or HFA). I would be in for a fight if i tried to get this. ( but hey ho I am used to a good fight by now. but it's always important to make sure that what you are fighting for is the best solution for Anthony). If he stays in the school he is in just now will this hold him back? They do try their best to accomodate him but it is geared up for children with moderate to severe learning difficulties. There are other autistic children in the school but they all seem more severe than Anthony.
Thankyou to anyone who made it this far and double thanks to any one who has the energy or time to reply. I do appreciate it. :)

My son also had more severe symptoms at a younger age and we were given a bleak outcome because he only had echolalic speech and little receptive or expressive language until age 5. But now at age 10 he probably would not be even classified as HFA because he has come so far. (And HFA and Aspergers ARE NOT the same thing- from what I understand, Asperger children develop normal language but have difficulty with social skills.)

I really do not know why he has progressed the way he has. I think I started seeing a change when I finally realized that the world was too stimulating for him and I kept the sensory overload to a minimum until I could see he could tolerate things. I had misgivings about taking him out of a special education setting and mainstreaming him into school, but for D. that was the right decision. That is because he is the "great imitator." And so he learned alot of his lessons and social skills from imitating the behavior of other children in a regular classroom. I dont know if his social skills would have developed as well in a special education setting.

If you are unsure of completely changing his program, maybe he could be mainstreamed part of the day or a few days a week into a different setting to see if it would make a difference.

We have a lot in common
I too live in Scotland , underwent the SCA training and was faced with a similar situation when it came to choosing schools.
My son was dx at age 3 with an unusual profile -"classic autism", but very bright. His main problem was with language, both receptive and expressed.

He is a visual learner and was able to read ( far above his age group), write and count at age 4. However at age 4 he could only use lanauage at the 2 word level, he had little eye contact, and would only interact on his terms. He was an unhappy and frustrated little boy.

I was lucky in that everyone agreed that he did not have learning difficulties but that he did learn very differently. I opted to put him in a mainstream school with an Autistic Base. I wanted him to be able to access a mainstream curriculum, with the support of teaching staff who were experts in autism. I wanted him taught by staff who specialised in Autism, who had seen it all, and who had developed strategies for dealing with the complexitites of autism. I knew that the SLT in the Base was an autism specialist who could really work with my son, and bring out the potential I saw in him.

Being realistic I knew he would be totally unable to cope in a class of 30 if mainstreamed totally, but had a chance of accessing mainstream after having been "hot housed" in the Base. I hoped that after being in the Base he would be able to cope with more regular school life. My main goal was to get him into a Base where the emphasis would be on speech and language and all aspects of communication.

Due to him being a visual learner I wanted him to have role models which were typically developing children and I knew he would be mainstreamed for daily events like playtime, dining , and assembly. However I also needed him to be a small group for learning activites as 30 pupils in a class would overload him.

I also wanted him in a Base where the children were all verbal, as he really needed to hear and model language. The odds were a bit stacked against us, as the Base I wanted him in was totally oversubscribed ( 20 applications that year for 1 place). He got in, and yes most of the other pupils are HFA or AS, but he has really benefited from this as it has helped bring on his speech.

When he started he had intensive speech and language therapy ( 5 individual sessions a week + additional group sessions) , he only attended part-time for the first 3 months as this was all he could cope with. He also had a 1:1 with a SEN auxillary within the Base, who really helped him get settled and cope with the new school. Maybe this would be an option to explore ? ( 1:1 within a Base)

He is now in P3 and a very different boy from the P1 who started. He is now using spontaneous speech ( which in my darkest moments I never thought possible), is so much more socially aware and interactive, and much more flexible and best of all, happy. The Base have been so supportive and have helped him so much. Nothing he has done has fazed them, they always try to analyse and work out WHY he has done something. They have given us so many useful tools to help him and us cope. I have always felt both us and the school were singing off the same song sheet, we shared the same goals and worked using the same strategies.

Thankfully, so far, we seem to have made the right decision, and I just pray that it keeps going so well. I really hope this helps, at least it will give you a Base parent's perspective.
Good luck, I know exactly what you are going through :angel:

Gosh aidymum it's a small world right enough. You must have been at the SCA the year before me. My son is six, primary two.
The biggest problem i face is Anthony seems to have a real language problem. After the year at the SCA two of the best therapists agreed to work with Anthony privately. one stayed with us for a year and the other still works with him on and off ( she is in her final year SLT course at Jordanhill). he has had SLT at nursery and two hours SLT at school. I am from a very large family so anthony is always surrounded by lots of typical children. He goes to a mainstream dance class on a Saturday. All this input has brought him on in many ways but not with language.
At the age of 4 Anthony had one word and that was "go".
By the age of 5 he had picked up another 3 or 4 words
Now at the age of six he actively trys to communicate but finds it so hard to learn and remember words. He has about 20 words in his volcabulary and just trys them out till he gets one that we find acceptable. (the process i go through to teach him each word is a lengthy one.)
(e.g I managed to get him to say his name with the singing game. but I have been trying the same thing with his age but at the end of each sentence he just says his name again even though it's a completely different tune. He will get it eventually but it will take a long time and a lot of singing to get him to realise that name and age are two different words. he will say to me "mummy go" if he wants me to follow but he will also say this to his dad, teacher etc "Mummy go" his school book for the last year contains pictures of us all with our labels underneath he just doesn't grasp it.)
But today he got to level three on his playstation2 sonic the hedgehog game and often can beat his 11year old sister at many games. He remembers how to spell lots of words. works out passwords,solves puzzles. Iknow he is very bright in other ways. but if I don't get the language started it is going to slow everything down.
So I am unsure if the unit will be of help.They might be more specialised and skilled in dealing with Anthony and may find other ways of bringing on his speech or will the language be over his head and cause him to shut off and he might gain nothing from this environment. I will phone tomorrow and ask to speak to the head of the unit school and have another look around and ask her what she thinks. i don't think Anthony's language will just take off I think it will have to be taught to him in a very specific way. And i am just wondering who will be best equiped to teach him.
Thanks for all the input it's a great way to unravel and other parents perspective is always a massive help.
Thankyou all so much
Bernadette

Bernadette, the world gets smaller and smaller , I too had an SCA therapist work with us privately and still visits once a month to advise and encourage us (L.Y.)
I think it's a really good idea to revisit the Base and speak to the Head. You'll get a good indication when you visit if Anthony would fit in and thrive in the school or not.

4 years ago when started looking at schools I felt that Aidan was indeed very different from the children I saw at the Base he eventually joined .They all were much more able, were much more verbal but they were at the level I wanted Aidan to be at. I felt a great deal of hope when speaking to the teachers about this. As they explained to me the majority of children did not enter the base so able, but they had individual specific programmes which were tailored to their needs to help them modify their autism.eg some of the AS children had real difficulty with social skills and fine motor skills so their emphasis was on this and not so much on the use of language. With Aidan the emphasis was on communication, as he could already write quite well.

Talking to the teachers about what they did with the children brought back so memories of the SCA as they followed exactly the same principles that we had been trained to use, and were still using with Aidan. Although the pupils were all verbal, when the SLT and teachers worked with Aidan it was only short 1/2 word commands similar to those we used at home. There was also a great deal of emphasis on using visual symbols with text underneath. As Aidan could read they used his strength in this as a way of getting the message across.

The 1:1 in his first year was really the turning point for him. I doubt that it all would have worked so well if he did not have her there to help him cope. Although he was in a class of 6 he still at that stage needed someone to keep him on task and conduct extra language sessions with him. She was fantastic and was so tuned into where he was coming from and what he needed.

Don't get me wrong it has not been a bed of roses, with Aidan it seldom is. It took him a full year to be able to sit through and participate in a mainstream assembly. I have sat through an awful lot of school plays where Aidan has been dying to get on stage and grab the microphone and has had to be encouraged to wait his turn! It's only in the last few months his has been able to expand his language away from the scripted phrases he has been trained to use, but it has been worth the wait.

You have worked so hard with Anthony and know his strengths and needs so well, I have no doubt you will choose the best option for him. Leave no stone unturned!
Good Luck, Sharon

Hi Sharon
That's amazing it was LY that worked with Anthony for a year and i still keep in touch with her. She used to talk about you to me nothing specific she never mentioned names etc. just general and she said once that we were very similar and our fights were of a similar nature. SCampbell is the other therapist that still works with Anthony. LY and sC are good friends.This is so weird.
I will keep in touch with you and let you know how the whole school thing pans out.
I am glad to hear that your son is coming on so well. it's so nice to hear that all your effort and energy has paid off.
Take care and thanks for replying.
Bernadette

Bernadette,
I wondered last week if you were the Mum that LY had praised so often to me! She always thought Anthony and Aidan were similiar as were we. But then I thought that this would have been too much of a coincidence -both of us on the same international forum and living only 20 miles apart. It just shows to go that God (and the internet) does work in mysterious ways!

I'll probably bump into you at LY's big day and look forward to having a chat. I hope Anthony is having a good week and the teacher is speaking in short sentences!!
Sharon x

I will look forward to seeing you on LY's big day.
Yes as you said God works in mysterious ways! Getting Anthony's teacher to talk in short sentence well that would be somewhat miraculous!!!!!!!!