kelpie
02-06-2006, 08:55 PM
I haven't been diagnosed as having MS but the MS specialist says its "possible MS". The neuro said that Botox injections might help my muscle spasms either way. Has anyone who is experiencing muscle spasms ever tried Botox and did it help?
Thanks, Kelpie :cool:
Thanks, Kelpie :cool:
Sponsor
curious11
02-06-2006, 09:04 PM
As far as I have read, Botox for spasticity isn't approved, it's just experimental. There are a few different spasticty drugs on the market, I wonder why your doctor didn't mention those first?!
kelpie
02-06-2006, 10:45 PM
Hi Curious,
I think because he's had good results with Botox. Btw, he's a MS specialist/neuro. He asked why my regular neuro hadn't suggested it! But he did confirm that insurance wouldn't pay for it. I've been on Soma and Baclofen for 3 years and not gotten much relief. I've also had physical therapy (two different rounds), acupuncture, cranial sacral massage - with very limited success - and chiropractic actually made things much, much worse.
Towards the end of my appt. the specialist said he wanted to wait before giving me anything until the results of the LP had come in, which I guess makes sense. Still, I was wondering if anyone had tried Botox for spasms. Expensive, but the MS specialist seemed to have a lot of faith in it and thought it was a shame insurance wouldn't recognize it as being beneficial. I've also read it's being used with success in treating migraines.
kelpie
I think because he's had good results with Botox. Btw, he's a MS specialist/neuro. He asked why my regular neuro hadn't suggested it! But he did confirm that insurance wouldn't pay for it. I've been on Soma and Baclofen for 3 years and not gotten much relief. I've also had physical therapy (two different rounds), acupuncture, cranial sacral massage - with very limited success - and chiropractic actually made things much, much worse.
Towards the end of my appt. the specialist said he wanted to wait before giving me anything until the results of the LP had come in, which I guess makes sense. Still, I was wondering if anyone had tried Botox for spasms. Expensive, but the MS specialist seemed to have a lot of faith in it and thought it was a shame insurance wouldn't recognize it as being beneficial. I've also read it's being used with success in treating migraines.
kelpie
Barbbelle
02-07-2006, 08:59 AM
Hi!!
I had Botox injections in my calf 3 months ago. The doctor uses very thin needles and injects 3-4 vials of Botox in different parts of your muscles. I really didn't feel anything. I must say that it did really help the muscle spasm in my leg and now that it is wearing off, I notice it's benefits more because the spasms are becoming more of a problem again. I didn't feel very well the day after the shot...but that could have been just one of those days!
I asked the neuro at my last appointment if I should up my Baclofen (which I take at night) or Zanaflex (which I occasionally take during the day) and he said that he would rather that I take another round of Botox. The other drugs make me a little drowsy and he wants me to keep my head in the game.
I didn't mind this treatment at all and my insurance company paid for it...surprisingly enough. I heard that it costs approx. $5000. Not sure if that is correct or not.
Hope this helps you!! Best of luck! Barb :wave:
I had Botox injections in my calf 3 months ago. The doctor uses very thin needles and injects 3-4 vials of Botox in different parts of your muscles. I really didn't feel anything. I must say that it did really help the muscle spasm in my leg and now that it is wearing off, I notice it's benefits more because the spasms are becoming more of a problem again. I didn't feel very well the day after the shot...but that could have been just one of those days!
I asked the neuro at my last appointment if I should up my Baclofen (which I take at night) or Zanaflex (which I occasionally take during the day) and he said that he would rather that I take another round of Botox. The other drugs make me a little drowsy and he wants me to keep my head in the game.
I didn't mind this treatment at all and my insurance company paid for it...surprisingly enough. I heard that it costs approx. $5000. Not sure if that is correct or not.
Hope this helps you!! Best of luck! Barb :wave:
kelpie
02-07-2006, 01:20 PM
That is very interesting, Barb! I'm really glad the Botox helped the spasms :) and that your insurance paid for it!! :bouncing: :bouncing:
Maybe if there are precendents elsewhere of insurance companies paying for Botox treatments, other insurance companies will follow suit. Botox isn't without a few side effects but sure sounds better to me than being on muscle relaxants on a daily basis, especially when (for me) they only give minimal relief. Two doctors now have told me they believe Botox could relieve my symptoms for about 3 months. I've heard the cost is $500 per vial - so 3-4 vials as you had would be quite expensive. If I am diagnosed, I'll definitely check into the insurance aspect of it. Thank you so much for the information!
kelpie
Maybe if there are precendents elsewhere of insurance companies paying for Botox treatments, other insurance companies will follow suit. Botox isn't without a few side effects but sure sounds better to me than being on muscle relaxants on a daily basis, especially when (for me) they only give minimal relief. Two doctors now have told me they believe Botox could relieve my symptoms for about 3 months. I've heard the cost is $500 per vial - so 3-4 vials as you had would be quite expensive. If I am diagnosed, I'll definitely check into the insurance aspect of it. Thank you so much for the information!
kelpie
Natatude
02-07-2006, 03:22 PM
my neuro suggested that when i was at my last appointment in december,,, i said no thnx,, only thing i could think of is women who have that crap shot into their lips and them being really huge and ugly looking like someone punched em in the mouth,,, so he just gave me more baclofen
kelpie
02-07-2006, 03:41 PM
I thought it was Collagen that makes the fat lips. Botox temporarily paralyzes the muscle (so it forces it to relax). As far as I know there's no swelling like the Collagen.
kelpie
kelpie
Barbbelle
02-07-2006, 03:50 PM
Hi again!!!!
I didn't have any swelling at all. I would love to say that my 40+year old calf looked alot younger, but I didn't notice that!! They injected the gastrocnemius muscle and the anterior tibial and that definitely reduced the spasms from those muscles. I have a foot drop and it seemed to be more pronounced before the Botox. Oh, and there were people in the Rehab Drs office who had strokes, etc other than MS so I assume that their insurance paid for it too. Best of luck to you! Barb
I didn't have any swelling at all. I would love to say that my 40+year old calf looked alot younger, but I didn't notice that!! They injected the gastrocnemius muscle and the anterior tibial and that definitely reduced the spasms from those muscles. I have a foot drop and it seemed to be more pronounced before the Botox. Oh, and there were people in the Rehab Drs office who had strokes, etc other than MS so I assume that their insurance paid for it too. Best of luck to you! Barb
lilc
02-07-2006, 06:57 PM
When I first was dx'd with BET (benign essential tremor) about 15 years ago the research I did suggested botox was being tried for that. It never appealed to me because it is, well, poison (botulism toxin - no idea if I spelled it right). I was horrified when it became popular for cosmetic purposes! But the fact remains, it does what they want it to do - temporarily induces a degree of paralysis in muscles, making them less tense. For those of us with uncooperative muscles, it might make sense...
stanleyguy
03-08-2006, 01:34 PM
Here's the lowdown on the Botox:
There are two types, A and B, and one is 'approved' for treating muscle spasm, type B, it's brand name is MyoBloc - http://www.myobloc.com/
Type A is the type used to get rid of wrinkles in your forehead, and no they don't inject it into people lips.
Botox is sort of no-brainer for treating muscle spasms, since it's a muscle paralysis drug. That's why it gets rid of wrinkles in the face, those wrinkles are caused by tiny muscles that contract more with age, and the Botox relaxes them, lasting about 3-4 months.
Incidentally before I ever came down with my 'condition' I had tried out Botox on my forehead a couple of times and it did indeed get rid of lines, etc.
I have chronic myofasical pain in the face, head, and neck, caused by constant severe spasms in my neck. After going through regular trigger point injections which never lasted more than about a month (i.e. it would disrupt the spasm but it would return) my doctor suggested the Botox and I figured it would probably do something to improve my condition.
So we did 100 units of Botox type A (the cosmetic Botox) into about 10 points on my neck. I did feel sick for about a day afterwards, this is normal they told me for IM injection of Botox for non-cosmetic muscles. After that by the end of the following month I was doing much better with the spasms.
It didn't completely alleviate them at all times, but what it did do is when the muscle would start to or want to spasm, it really just couldn't get that far, and I would have mild neck tightness that I could get rid of with heat, massage, and muscle relaxing medication.
On the other hand it did completely alleviate the pain in my face that was caused by the neck spasm radiating over my head and into my face. Again because the muscle just couldn't spasm enough to cause that secondary action.
It lasted almost 4 months for me, and as someone else mentioned here, I noticed what it was doing for me more now that it has worn off, and the spasms are worse and the pain is back in my face. I am in a new city now and seeing a new pain doctor who happens to use the Type B MyoBloc Botox and I may give that a try as he said he's seen good results with it.
My personal non-medical opinion is that Botox may work better for smaller muscle groups than larger ones, and if you want to treat larger ones you may need a good lot more than 100 units. If you're using a few vials at each treatment you may be up around 400 units, which as told to me by a different physician - you can develop an immune response to at 400-500 units if injected multiple times per year with that much and then you develop antibodies to the Botox rendering it ineffective. The good news on that one though is that supposedly by switching between Type A and Type B you can avoid the immune response as the body sees them differently.
Now on to the cost. Yes it's expensive and insurance usually doesn't cover it. They didn't cover my first treatment, and I had to pay for it my self. Cost for 100 units of Botox is pretty universal at $500-$600. There's only one company that makes each type and that's the price for A or B. The insurance companies don't want to pay for it because it's VERY expensive, and not just for the Botox itself but for the injection cost, because...
The cost to inject it is a whole different story. When I used to have trigger points the cost was about $200-$300 for easily 10 points and that the included whatever was in the needle (lidocain, etc.). The cost to inject Botox is typically $800-$900 and that DOES NOT include the cost of the Botox itself. Why so much more for the same needle into the same trigger points but just different medication? Liability issues I've been told. It always seems to be a different billing code and because it's something that stays in your system for months once it's in there the chances they could screw it up increase dramatically as compared to pumping in some lidocaine that dissipates quickly.
So you're looking at average $1,500 per treatment 3-4 times per year. For me, it's worth it. For anyone else out there dealing with chronic spasm where no matter what you do with medication and therapy the spasms keep coming back it's worth a try, at least once. The problem is that if it really works for you you're going to want it again.
There is also a glimmer of hope of being 'cured' of spasm with Botox as well. In cosmetic use after 2-3 years of injections at least 4 times per year, the muscle becomes permanently 'relaxed' in many people, and they find they no longer the need the Botox or need it only 1-2 times per year. I think that there are not enough people using Botox for muscle spasm who have been using it that much for that many years to find out if it has the same 'retraining' effect on the muscle as seen in cosmetic use, but again there's hope.
P.S. In speaking with my new doctor he said that many insurance companies are approving the MyoBloc as it's approved for that type of use. We shall see. He's also put my on Baclofen and Zanaflex which are new for me, and I'm going to give them a try before I spend the $1,500 again.
There are two types, A and B, and one is 'approved' for treating muscle spasm, type B, it's brand name is MyoBloc - http://www.myobloc.com/
Type A is the type used to get rid of wrinkles in your forehead, and no they don't inject it into people lips.
Botox is sort of no-brainer for treating muscle spasms, since it's a muscle paralysis drug. That's why it gets rid of wrinkles in the face, those wrinkles are caused by tiny muscles that contract more with age, and the Botox relaxes them, lasting about 3-4 months.
Incidentally before I ever came down with my 'condition' I had tried out Botox on my forehead a couple of times and it did indeed get rid of lines, etc.
I have chronic myofasical pain in the face, head, and neck, caused by constant severe spasms in my neck. After going through regular trigger point injections which never lasted more than about a month (i.e. it would disrupt the spasm but it would return) my doctor suggested the Botox and I figured it would probably do something to improve my condition.
So we did 100 units of Botox type A (the cosmetic Botox) into about 10 points on my neck. I did feel sick for about a day afterwards, this is normal they told me for IM injection of Botox for non-cosmetic muscles. After that by the end of the following month I was doing much better with the spasms.
It didn't completely alleviate them at all times, but what it did do is when the muscle would start to or want to spasm, it really just couldn't get that far, and I would have mild neck tightness that I could get rid of with heat, massage, and muscle relaxing medication.
On the other hand it did completely alleviate the pain in my face that was caused by the neck spasm radiating over my head and into my face. Again because the muscle just couldn't spasm enough to cause that secondary action.
It lasted almost 4 months for me, and as someone else mentioned here, I noticed what it was doing for me more now that it has worn off, and the spasms are worse and the pain is back in my face. I am in a new city now and seeing a new pain doctor who happens to use the Type B MyoBloc Botox and I may give that a try as he said he's seen good results with it.
My personal non-medical opinion is that Botox may work better for smaller muscle groups than larger ones, and if you want to treat larger ones you may need a good lot more than 100 units. If you're using a few vials at each treatment you may be up around 400 units, which as told to me by a different physician - you can develop an immune response to at 400-500 units if injected multiple times per year with that much and then you develop antibodies to the Botox rendering it ineffective. The good news on that one though is that supposedly by switching between Type A and Type B you can avoid the immune response as the body sees them differently.
Now on to the cost. Yes it's expensive and insurance usually doesn't cover it. They didn't cover my first treatment, and I had to pay for it my self. Cost for 100 units of Botox is pretty universal at $500-$600. There's only one company that makes each type and that's the price for A or B. The insurance companies don't want to pay for it because it's VERY expensive, and not just for the Botox itself but for the injection cost, because...
The cost to inject it is a whole different story. When I used to have trigger points the cost was about $200-$300 for easily 10 points and that the included whatever was in the needle (lidocain, etc.). The cost to inject Botox is typically $800-$900 and that DOES NOT include the cost of the Botox itself. Why so much more for the same needle into the same trigger points but just different medication? Liability issues I've been told. It always seems to be a different billing code and because it's something that stays in your system for months once it's in there the chances they could screw it up increase dramatically as compared to pumping in some lidocaine that dissipates quickly.
So you're looking at average $1,500 per treatment 3-4 times per year. For me, it's worth it. For anyone else out there dealing with chronic spasm where no matter what you do with medication and therapy the spasms keep coming back it's worth a try, at least once. The problem is that if it really works for you you're going to want it again.
There is also a glimmer of hope of being 'cured' of spasm with Botox as well. In cosmetic use after 2-3 years of injections at least 4 times per year, the muscle becomes permanently 'relaxed' in many people, and they find they no longer the need the Botox or need it only 1-2 times per year. I think that there are not enough people using Botox for muscle spasm who have been using it that much for that many years to find out if it has the same 'retraining' effect on the muscle as seen in cosmetic use, but again there's hope.
P.S. In speaking with my new doctor he said that many insurance companies are approving the MyoBloc as it's approved for that type of use. We shall see. He's also put my on Baclofen and Zanaflex which are new for me, and I'm going to give them a try before I spend the $1,500 again.
scarlet45
03-22-2006, 12:24 PM
i have been offered botox treatment for my blurred vision, but was not sure about it as no one knows what is causing the mucsle spasmsin my eyes.my vision has been blurred and double vision for 18 months.i had an mri and was told it was nomal that was 18 months .i also get very tired and get vertigo :confused:
scarlet45
09-29-2006, 08:50 AM
i have been offered botox treatment for my blurred vision, but was not sure about it as no one knows what is causing the mucsle spasmsin my eyes.my vision has been blurred and double vision for 18 months.i had an mri and was told it was nomal that was 18 months .i also get very tired and get vertigo :confused:
well i had the botox injction for the accomadative spasm in my eyes ,but it did not work so they are going to try a stronger dose in jan ,but they still dont know why it is happening,and dont know if next one will work as i am an unusual case. so very worried and fed up as work are giving me a hard time.:confused:
well i had the botox injction for the accomadative spasm in my eyes ,but it did not work so they are going to try a stronger dose in jan ,but they still dont know why it is happening,and dont know if next one will work as i am an unusual case. so very worried and fed up as work are giving me a hard time.:confused:
Serenity/2
12-18-2006, 04:12 AM
I get botox shots in my neck for muscle spasms. I have a condition called cervical dystonia also known as spasmodic torticollis. My neck muscles are in a constant spasm, they become very hard. The botox has helped me alot, it helps me function on a daily basis, as before I was getting so stiff that in order to turn my head I pretty much had to turn my whole body. I get the botox shots every 3 months, 300 units, the cost is expensive but I get help from NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders). I would reccomend this treatment for any spasm, I do not have any side affects from the botox. I hope this might help someone who is thinking about gettting botox for cervical dystonia (spasmodic torticollis). Is there anyone that has been diagnosed with this disorder that I might be able to compare symptoms with.
God Bless and take care,
Audrey
God Bless and take care,
Audrey
waitingtolive
07-11-2008, 11:18 AM
I have been fighting spasmodic torticollis for alot of years,I have gotten so many injections but even the botox has not stopped it !!! So please feel free to post to me . This has been soooooo devastating not only the pain but all the meds and injections !!!!!