I am having a really hard day today. I didn't even really overeat terribly, but I'm having one of those days where I think about yesterday's dinner and then the day before that's lunch, and my dessert from monday, etc etc and I just feel like I'm out of control! My days usually start off light but then after dinner I am really full. So then the next day I eat a light breakfast and the same thing happens again! And I absolutely can't stand the fact that I am not running, doing the elliptical or anything. Everyone is telling me I shouldn't and I can't, but I want to SO badly...I feel like I NEED to...
Ok, so here is what I ate today:
Breakfast-banana, 1 bite of a bran muffin, medium nonfat latte
Lunch-1/2 cup lowfat cottage cheese, huge apple, sliced turkey, 2 rice cakes, and a couple tbsp lowfat cream cheese
Snack- a few candy corn and 3 marshmallows
Dinner-vegetable stir fry in soy sauce (homemade) with broccoli, green beans, cauliflower and carrots, small handful peanuts, 1 and 1/2 CA roll (crab and avocado sushi)
Dessert-fat free caramel corn and MAYBE frozen yogurt (if I give in, which I will, and then I'll feel terrible tomorrow for some reason).

Joni - howcome when you were eating 3000 calories for months you barely even put on weight and I feel like I have been eating barely anything more than I was eating before, and I know I've put on weight. In fact, when I went to my therapist yesterday she wouldn't let me look at my weight, but when I asked her about it she said "well, when you got weighed at the dr. it was in the morning, etc etc so it makes sense that you are a little more now." That's just an excuse, really. I'm literally going to gain out of control if I don't buckle down. Seriously. If I try and loosen up a little I feel like I have no control whatsoever.

I am so anxious right now about this. It's bothering me like crazy...

Hi LS...
I'm so sorry to see you are anxious and stuggling with this. First, keep in mind that there are 3500 calories in a pound. This means that you will have to eat an extra 500 calories a day for a week to gain one pound. I know you feel like you have been eating alot, but it has been averaging 1500 calories a day, since you are so tall, you would probably need 3000 calories AT LEAST for a week to gain one pound, and you havent been eating near that. It's water weight, any weight that you think you have "gained". With excercise, you sweat, so you lose water weight, and since you are under strict orders not to excercise, you are probably just keeping water weufgt. You simply just have not been eating enough to gain even 1/2 a pound, in my opinion.
With me, i sometimes weigh 3 pounds less in the morning than i do at night, but I dont freak, because it's water weight. Even 8 ounces of water is half a pound, and fruits and vegetables are full of water, even though they have next to no calories.
I Hope this is helping to calm you down. Have a good day.
-Michelle

hm...okay...how did I not know that 3,5000 kcals equals to a pound?? Surely this would differ according to your weight and height..? Or am I wrong. Ohhh confusion.

Thanks, Michelle...that does help put it into perspective.
When I'm in the moment of freaking out I just cannot think realistically. Today is a new day and I feel fine about everything (for the most part), but last night I honestly felt like I was spiraling downward fast.
I realize that 3500 calories = one pound, but if I am attacking this from both ends by NOT exercising and then eating MORE, then it will be much easier to reach that many extra calories, right? Say I was burning 500 calories and now I am eating 500 more, that is 1000 extra calories for one day! Does that make sense? Is that how it works?

I went for a walk/jog this mornign b/c I just felt so anxious and had to do SOMETHING. It's almost impossible for me to ignore these feelings and not act on them. Of course, I didn't tell my parents that I did this, but I know that they would disagree with it. To me, it doesn't seem like a big deal at all, though, if it makes me feel better...

keep in mind that you were probably eating way lower for your body to perform it's basic functions. I know that it is hard to think realistically... but just keep your head up... even if you did weigh your self and you were 5 pounds heavier, you simply have not increased your caloric intake enough to gain at all.. you eat a ton of fruits and veggies, which i have stated before are basically all water, so i really dont think there is a possibility for any kind of weight gain.

oh sweetie, i'm so sorry i didn't read this until today! i'm really glad you're feeling better. it sucks when the anxiety overcomes you and you feel SO out of control and terrible and no one understands, you know? i'm glad some other people got to this post before i did. magnolia's advice is dead on and i think you realize that. you COULD NOT have gained weight eating the low amount of calories that you are right now. i know it seems like a myth, but your weight really DOES fluctuate (like seriously up to 4 lbs or even 5!) within the course of a day. PLUS, it fluctuates day to day depending on water retention (esp. from higher sodium meals, at least for me), depending on where you are in your monthly cycle (seriously big impact!) and depending on lots of little crap you can't know anything about. you aren't gaining weight!!! i know it probably isn't that reassuring to read that from someone who has never met you, but i can guarantee that's not really what's going on.

here's a possibility of what MAY be going on. yes, i eat 3000 calories a day now. BUT, there's a lot that goes into that equation. first of all, my body is OBVIOUSLY f***ed up. i'm almost positive it's doing that "hypermetabolic" thing that a lot of people talk about, so what i'm eating now is not what i'll be eating down the road, you know? my metabolism is just going all crazy-psycho style, that's all.

the second thing, and this is what is think is REALLY relavant to your situation, is that i didn't start out eating this much (not even close!). i started therapy last july and started at only 1200 calories a day because i was having binging problems and blah blah blah. anyway, because i'd been starving my poor body for SO long (forget the binging!), my metabolism was WAY slow. once we got me to about 2000 a day (maybe after a month of therapy???), i did actually start to gain a little weight. BUT then my metabolism kicked back in and it's been sort of a back-and-forth thing since then. i eat more, i gain a little, my metabolism changes, i lose a little and then maintain. honestly, i don't know if this is normal or whatever, but the reason i'm telling you is because i think that could be what's happening to you IF in fact you did gain a pound or half a pound or whatever. you are STARVING your body with what you're eating and your metabolism has suffered as a result. so, as you increase your caloric intake, you might gain a little until your metabolism catches up, you know? (and then you'll most likely lose it, which isn't good either by the way)

i don't know if this is really relavant, but i think it is. this is why i REALLY think you need a meal plan, a very structured one. i don't know what your nutritionist has said, but any sensible person can see that what you're eating is NOT enough nutrition for your body. i really urge you to ask for something more structured. otherwise, how are you going to get used to eating healthy and without that, how are you going to recover? i'm worried, hon, i want you to get better with me! (however long that may take!!)

i actually gotta go, but i wanted to write to you once i'd read your post. also, i'm sorry i ever posted my calories. please don't try to take it as me having a "superior" metabolism/body to you, okay? i only originally wrote it to encourage you to eat more because i KNOW you can! but now looking back, that was dumb of me. none of us should know how much anyone else eats cuz whether it's more or less, we inevitably feel worse about ourselves because of it. so, i'm sorry. please stay strong and keep that good spirit. this is a tough battle, but you CAN win. talk to you soon!

Don't worry about it, Joni! I'm just being psycho lately about posting and I think I almost need to wean myself from these boards - haha. It's good to get reassurance and comfort from everyone here, but I also think I just freak out about things that are really petty and post about them hastily.

Anyway, I am definitely feeling better today, but I think part of the reason I'm feeling better is because I took a little more control over my food. Today I woke up and went for a small jog (I know, I know). Then I had some coffee with milk and then did yoga 11-1230. When I got home I made brunch - lowfat cottage cheese with a banana cut up, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, and flax seed. Oh, and a couple spoonfuls of yogurt. As a late afternoon snack I had a strip of grilled fajita chicken and 3 FF kraft singles. For dinner I had baba ganoush (sort of like hummus) with 1 triangle of pita bread (the pita bread was really oily!) and a chopped chicken salad with olives, chicken, tomatoes, and FF dressing. I also ate my dad's 2 pizza crusts. And then I had sour patch kids at the movies.
I know that I skimped early in the day, but overall I feel like I ate a lot...

My dad suggested getting frozen yogurt after dinner (which, honestly, I would eat every single night after dinner if I had my way), but I got mad and said "no, dad, we don't need to get it every single night!" But I think the reason I got angry is because I really DID want it and I was mad that I couldn't have it (b/c I wouldn't let myself). Has that ever happened to you?

Don't apologize for posting your calories. It has not affected me negatively - I promise. If anything it makes me realize how much I can be eating because of my height and need to gain weight, etc... I mean, most likely my metabolism is different from yours, but there's the slight possibility that it is the same!...i hope! Haha.

I also have this thing with the time of day that I eat. I like to eat breakfast at breakfast time, lunch at lunchtime, etc. If I'm hungry at 4 I make myself wait until a reasonable dinnertime hour b/c I can't stand the thought of eating at a random time like that. It's really weird!

One more thing and then I'll stop - haha - we are quite a pair! Do you take any vitamins? I am taking tons (and have been for a while). My Dr. did an extensive blood workup and it showed what I am missing so I take: DHEA, Trace Minerals, Omega-3, CoQ10, B vitamins, and Borage oil. Oh and I also take those calcium chews and vitamin C. That's so much!!

hey girl! i don't really have anything to say, but i just like to write to you! (i think i need a little "weaning" also . . . but i love to go on these boards to distract myself from actually working! lol!)

so, i still REALLY don't think you're eating enough at all. not even close, kiddo! i tried to roughly estimate your calories for yesterday (hard, cuz i don't really know the portion sizes, but anyway . . .) and even though i rounded everything UP and OVERestimated, i came up with 1600. which means that i'm 99% sure you didn't even eat that much yesterday! AND you ran AND you did yoga for an hour and a half AND your six feet tall AND you're dangerously underweight AND you're supposed to be following a meal plan, aren't you?

i know i'm like a freakin' broken record here, but i'm really getting worried about you. you are eating almost NO fat on a regular basis and you're starving your body. i'm just scared for you. the way you've been eating can SERIOUSLY mess up your body, and it probably already has. you need MORE food, MORE fat, MORE nutrition (women cannot live on fruit and chicken and fat-free dairy alone!) all those vitamins you're taking, keep taking them. your body is so deprived of actual nutrition, it's seriously needs them. (i just take a calcium and a basic multi-vitamin, by the way. nothing too extensive, but you have to keep in mind that i eat about twice as much as you do, so my body gets MANY more vitamins and nutrients from actual food.)

if you don't mind me asking, what has your nutritionist prescribed for you? from your daily posts, i'm assuming she either hasn't told you to do anything or you just aren't following it at all. i'd really like to know what she said and maybe i can help you meet the goals. it's really important. like i said before, how will you EVER be able to recover if you can't learn to eat healthily and not feel guilty about it?

in terms of eating meals at the "correct" times, that's totally fine, but then you need to commit to it. you need to be awake and eating at breakfast time and you need to actually EAT lunch at lunch time (a real lunch too, not just an apple, 4 slices of fat-free cheese and 2 rice cakes. that isn't lunch.) what if you tried just eating 3 REAL meals a day and having two small snacks in between and then a dessert after dinner. just try it for one day. if you're nervous, make your snacks be fruit or something (cuz heaven knows, no one ever gained weight from eating apples!) it's MUCH healthier to eat more often (keeps your blood sugar stable) and you NEED to eat more. doesn't the fact that you're hungry at 4 pm or whenever say that to you? if you're body is begging you for food, you HAVE to feed it! also, you really need to get rid of all that fat-free crap. why do you eat it anyway??? and more importantly, why do your parents allow it in the house when they know you need to gain weight? eat FOOD that's not A) fruit, B) fat-free and C) substansial enough to be considered a meal.

i'm sorry i'm going on some sort of crazy rant again, but i'm really worried. it seems like you aren't following the advice of your therapist or nutritionist at all, you know? don't you want to get better? trust me, i know all the mental obstacles that stand in the way, but do you want to recover? cuz if you do, it doesn't really seem like you're going about it the right way . . . just a thought. keep me posted and please try the 3 meal, 2 snack thing. i guarantee you'll feel SO good just by doing that!

Hi Joni,
My nutritionist recommended this to me: (it's all stuff I am already comfortable eating...)
Breakfast: yogurt or cottage cheese, fruit, cereal, some nuts (maybe 10)
Lunch: Sandwich with meat, avocado, veggies, pretzels or some fruit, 1 juice
or maybe a salad with dressing and protein and crackers and 1 juice
Snack: Nutrition Bar thingy
Dinner: 5oz meat, vegetables, 1 starch and some fat (butter? oil? etc)
Dessert: whatever i want...frozen yogurt? cookie?

That doesn't even seem like that much, but I don't think I am following it, still. I can't eat that bar thingy after lunch and I definitely can't eat whatever dessert. Heck, I feel bad after FF frozen yogurt most of the time!

Today I have a dentist appt at 10am. I was going to have coffee, go to the appointment, and then have my bowl of banana, berries, cottage cheese, etc.. at around 11 as sort of a brunch. But instead I went crazy (sort of) and ate it this morning. While my coffee was being made I just started picking at food and decided to just eat my concoction then - lowfat cottage cheese, a little cereal, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, and a whole banana. Sooooo, now I've decided I can't eat lunch (b/c it was a very big breakfast) and I'm going to have an apple in between now and dinner. It's not that I'm going to be so hungry and not let myself eat -I honestly don't even think I'll get hungry between now and then and it makes me sick to imagine eating when I'm full.
I want to get better, but part of me doesn't b/c I sitll have that feeling like nothing is wrong...I mean, I eat lowfat and I know that I eat very healthy, but I get tons of nutrients and I eat almost anything (steak, salmon, nuts...etc...).

Honestly, I know how you feel about the situation and I'm just being a pest, but I'm just explaining how I feel. I'll try tomorrow to eat the way you suggested b/c today is already down the drain in my book.

stop! it is not down the drain and you do not have to STARVE yourself until dinner. first of all, how in the hell do you consider that "brunch" to be big??? seriously, ls, don't let yourself fall into that trap. you are not going to get better until you actually decide you're willing to get better. when is that gonna be??? (Sorry if i'm being a *****, but i'm pissed. i want you to get on the road to recovery SO badly and it frustrates me beyond belief that you aren't even trying. are you trying??? cuz i don't exactly see the effort in ANY of your posts. i KNOW that it's hard and i KNOW how many conflicting voices are screaming in your head right now, but you have got to take control! you are a woman and an intelligent one, so shut that da** eating disorder voice up and act like the adult you are! i have NO sympathy for you if you won't even try. i mean that in the kindest way possible, but i DO mean it. yes, it's hard to follow the meal plan and it seems like too much food to make your eating disorder happy, but YOU HAVE TO TRY. you owe it to yourself for God-sakes! i will empathize and listen till you're blue in the face about the feelings you have, the anxiety, the successes, etc. that come from trying to beat this disorder because i know how horrible it is. but i refuse to sympathize and understand when you deliberately wallow in anorexia and won't even try to escape. you have a friggin' meal plan! all you have to do is follow it!! yes, it's hard in your mind, but it's laid out for you, so seriously, ls, it isn't that hard!!! just eat the f***ing food that you're supposed to! or at least try to get relatively close to that!

i'm sorry that i'm so insanely out of control with the exclamation points in this reply, but seriously, for some reason i want to cry right now because i feel so frustrated and angry. i want you to get better and i don't think anything that i or your therapist or your parents say is going to make one bit of difference until you are WILLING to change. i know i can't make you get to that point, it has to come from within you, but i will never stop urging you to just give it up. please. :)

Now, let's try to fix today before you let your insecurities and anxiety push you farther into the grasp of anorexia, okay?

what does the meal plan that you are SUPPOSED to be following say? "yogurt or cottage cheese, fruit, cereal, some nuts" for breakfast, right?

and what did you eat? "lowfat cottage cheese, a little cereal, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, and a whole banana."

so, basically here's how i'd look at it: you ate the cottage cheese, banana for fruit, and since it was "a little cereal," i think we can count the cereal you ate plus the strawberries as the "cereal" in your meal plan, okay? (strawberries are VERY low cal, i guarantee them plus the "little" cereal you ate would be about equal to the meal plan "cereal." get it?) Now, what's left is the raspberries and blueberries, right? considering that one serving of nuts is about 200 calories, and berries are about 70 calories per serving, the two berries you had EQUALS the nuts you have in your meal plan. so basically, you're right on track for breakfast.

so f***ing eat lunch! and not a piece of fat free cheese and one pringle, okay? eat the lunch you are SUPPOSED to be eating, eat the da** snack, dinner and then dessert. just DO it! you will never overcome this ed without just confronting it in the face and doing what your fear most - eating. and right now, it's easy cuz it's all laid out for you.

a couple more things, and then i'll stop:
1. please don't hate me. :) i just really want you to commit to getting better.
2. stop f***ing with your meal plan. you aren't ready yet. if you have a designated "breakfast," then just eat it and move on. don't create some fruit combo breakfast and then decide you can't eat lunch cuz you didn't eat the breakfast on your plan, so why eat for the rest of the day, right? i'm fully convinced you didn't actually plan on eating according to the plan today, did you? if you did, why did you plan that breakfast that you think of as a "brunch?" stick to the friggin' plan! it's really your only hope at this point.
3. You need (as a matter of your health) to redefine your ideas of what foods constitute "brunch," "lunch," "snack," etc. i don't know how to go about this (probably talking it over with your therapist is best), but it's gotta be done. 4 kinds of fruit plus some cottage cheese is NOT a brunch! you know what a friggin' brunch is?!? eggs and french toast and bacon and hashbrowns and a little fruit cup and WHATEVER. it ain't a 400 calorie tops meal, okay???

you need to start "normalizing" your views of food. talk to your therapist about all of this, but it's a serious issue that needs to be dealt with. you have a strong misconception of what constitutes a "meal" and you have a very strong fear of MANY foods (just admit it, you do.) you freak out at fat-free frozen f***ing yogurt, for God-sakes!! you think that's a "normal, healthy" way of eating??!! bull. i had hostess chocolate cupcakes last night for dessert. you would NEVER eat those, would you? you need to get to the point where ANY food is okay if you want it, and you are no where near that point. make sure your therapist realizes this. i know hostess might be intimidating, but would you eat oreos? and i mean eat more than ONE with NO guilt. my instinctive answer (for you, not me) is "no." am i right? it's okay if i am, but you NEED to deal with this. your therapist and nutritionist HAVE to know these issues and they HAVE to know that you aren't even trying to stick to your meal plan. so suck it up and stop living the lie, so to speak. eat your dam* lunch and if it makes you anxious out of control, then come on here and i'll help you through it, okay? that's the only way you're gonna get better and i know you have the strength to do it.

sorry so long and i'll talk with you soon. :)

LS Please just read and reread everythign JOni has posted. She is definately right. YOU NEED HELP and you need it now..I know you've been tlaking to a therapist but I don't know if youre committed to getting betteR? I don't know what it will take for you to realize the truth but you really really need to snap out of this daze and see things for what they are. Several times youve posted and posted your daily menus worrying about having overeaten and NOT ONE SINGLE TIME did you even come close to having a NORMAL or HEALTHY amount that day. You know this because everyone tells you EVERY SINGLE TIME. Please LS try and see that what you are doing is fooling yourself into a dangerous cycle that is going nowhere good fast.

Do you remember when you first started posting on the Diet and Nutrition board about your worries and how, even then, you worried about the littlest things..constantly you were given reassurance to know that you aren't even close to overeating- please try to see this. Work with your nutritionist and therapist and anythign else you can find (maybe an ED program or support group?) Stop exercising off the miniscule amounts you eat and read and reread your posts from the past, other peoples posts and anything affirming for you to help you get better NOW.

Wow - It really means a lot to me to see how much you care about my recovery, Joni, and you, too, girlygirl. I guess even though we haven't even met eachother, we've sort of created a friendship on these boards and we really trust eachother's opinions.
That's part of the reason this is so hard for me - I feel like I am not just letting myself down, I am letting you down, too. And even more so because you are going through the recovery process yourself and here I am saying I am not going to eat lunch after eating cottage cheese, fruit, and cereal for breakfast. That is so inconsiderate of me - I'm sorry.
I really don't know what I want. I guess it's obvious that part of me knows I need to get better, but another part of me is just so COMFORTABLE where I am. And I think the hardest part about it is that I am so functional with this problem: I have energy, I can eat out with no problem, I eat most things, I eat very healthy things, so there aren't really that many obstacles. It almost would be easier if I weren't able to eat at restaurants, I would only eat white rice and I exercised every single day...do you know what I mean?

Anyway, I'm talking to my nutritionist tomorrow and I'm going to be completely honest with her and see if there is anything she can do to help me. I wish I could see as clearly as you both can right now b/c I know that my mind is fogged by this disordered thinking...I just can't BELIEVE that it is. But you know what they say: hindsight is 20/20, right??

hey, don't feel bad hon. we are VERY concerned for you, but it comes from a sincere desire to see you recover. have you let me down? not in any way. anorexia is a DISEASE and it's got you REALLY tight in it's grasp right now. i'm not upset because you've let me down or disappointed me; i'm upset because i can see the workings of this horrible disorder and i fear you won't be able to escape it. i see SO many similarities to myself and it makes me scared because i know how i felt when i was at your stage and i know how convinced i was that i was able to exist "normally," so why did i need to recover, right? i don't know if i'm saying this right, but basically, when i was where you are, i felt similarly about the ED. "i can eat out, i can eat desserts and donuts and fried chicken, i never feel sick or tired. as long as i maintain CONTROL, i could do this for the rest of my life and be happy! plus, i'll look skinny and be fit and what's wrong with that?"

i worry cuz i NEVER would have wanted to recover at that point. i was comfortable, happy, in control, thin . . . what more could i want, right??? all i had to do was keep track of calories, exercise, and life would remain great! i think about the fact that my anorexia morphed into 9 months of terrible binge eating (remember? i've written about that before, but not for some time now). if i had never had those binging problems (which is what sent me over the edge and finally made me so frustrated and exhausted that i gave in to therapy). anyway, if i hadn't experienced that 9 months of binging hell, would i have EVER sought therapy? i worry that i wouldn't have, and THAT'S why i'm so worried about you.

when you feel that you're existing normally and healthily and you can do all these things and be okay, you don't see why you need therapy. now that i'm in it though, i can tell you that it is the single best decision i ever made in my life. honestly. i thought i could live with my ED (cuz it wasn't "that bad" before the binging . . . just a little calorie control and exercise, right?) before therapy. and i probably could have. but now that i know i'm gonna kick this thing out of my life, i can't imagine ever even WANTING to live with it. i didn't realize how much it was restricting my life until i realized what life would be without it.

i'm not sure if i'm making sense, and i don't know how much this'll help, but i understand how you feel about not being able to commit to the idea of recovery because you are comfortable and you're getting by doing what you've been doing. i wish there was a way i could make you convinced that you will have a MUCH better life if you commit to recovery, but i know that's something only you can realize for yourself. and you have to commit to it or it'll never work (which i think you realize from what's been going on these past few weeks). it's gonna be EXTREMELY scary and feel risky and that "comfortable" feeling you have now is gonna get all shaken up. i guarantee that. recovery is scary as hell because you break all your control issues, and that's why i think you have to REALLY want it or it can't work.

i don't want to make you feel more guilty or bad about yourself. you are NOT a bad person, you're just a sick person with this disease that clouds the mind so much that you can't tell left from right anymore, you know? i hate the tricks that anorexia plays with my mind and my moods and everything in my life. until you can start to SEE what it's doing to you (even though you're still comfortable), maybe you won't be able to commit to recovery. but i urge you to start looking for the ways this disease affects you. and when you find them, i want you to get angry. REALLY angry. BLAME f***ing anorexia for ruining your life and your opinion of yourself and your peace and wellbeing. Get pissed off at this disorder to the point where you hate it and you want it out of your life even though you know you still depend on it. then maybe you'll be ready to commit. but just keep trying and PLEASE keep posting. i don't care what you say, you'll never make me so angry/upset that i won't want to talk to you anymore, okay? we've built a great relationship of trust (shout out to girlygirl here too!!) and i think the strength in our friendship is helping both of us, regardless of how fast we're getting better.

one more quick thing and then i'll end this novel. :)
in terms of finding the ways anorexia affects your life, look deep into stuff, because it's not all gonna be out in the open. you exist comfortably within the disorder (as do i), so you gotta look beyond the surface to find where it's REALLY killing you. for example, your mom comes home with a starbucks mochja for you. do you get nervous or throw it out or plan to eat less food later to make up the calories? or, your friend calls at 4 pm (after you eaten two meals) to tell you there's an impromtu party involving dinner, dessert and drinks. do you freak out? do you not eat certain things if you do go? do you consider not going? do you focus more on the food, etc. than you do on having fun with your friends? basically, look for areas where you've learned to adapt and live with the disorder and then QUESTION them hard. do you want to live with this anxiety anymore? do you HATE anorexia for making you feel this way instead of just living and loving as the wonderful person you are? just something to think about . . .

Joni,
Before I even say anything in response, I want so say thank you for being so open and honest with me AND for caring so much. Everything you said was 100% true and I know it b/c I battled anorexia several years ago in high school (did I tell you that already?) I had anorexia my junior year of high school and went through recovery my senior year. I just remember that weight being completely lifted off my shoulders and the CLEARNESS that came to me all of the sudden one day. It was like "wow, I was dealing with that this WHOLE time and I didn't even know it!?!?" And even though I remember how that felt, I don't know how to get there again...it's so weird. I KNOW how much happier I became and how much more freedom I felt, but I just don't know how I got there or if I can get there again. It will take a lot of surrendering and commitment and I'm not sure I can do that right now. It's like taking someone's hand and trusting them to guide you when you're blindfolded, you know?
Giving up control of this disease and just blindly trusting meal plans and nutritionists and everything else is SO hard.

Those two examples that you gave at the end of your last post really hit home with me because in BOTH situations I would make the wrong decision. In the first one, if it weren't nonfat I would for sure not drink it, and if it were nonfat I would still feel bad a little (because it wasn't planned or something). And in the second situation, the one about the last minute dessert party, I would almost definitely not go (unless it was a really close friend). I never like going to things like that full or if I have already eaten because I just feel so disgusting. In fact, if I know friends want to go out one night and get drinks I have to plan my whole day around that. I couldn't have a normal day and then have a friend call up and want to go out drinking - I'd go, but maybe only have 1/2 a drink or something b/c otherwise I'd feel too guilty.

And you're right -those are things that I HATE and ways that this disease controls my life. I don't want it to be able to have that much control, but it's so hard to let go. I just hope that I can be as courageous as you and just trust everyone who is trying to help me. Walk blindly, as I said before...

hey girl, thanks for the kind words. i really do care about you and i think because of all our similarities, the advice i give you is advice i'm simultaneously giving to myself, you know? i feel like sometimes i write like i have all the right answers, but don't think i'm like this "Recovery Wonderwoman" or something! :) i'm in as rough of shape as you are; i think i'm just at a different point in the recovery process so it seems different, you know?

anyway, i completely understand what you mean about just not "feeling it" in terms of being ready to recover. this is gonna contradict everything i've said before, but maybe you just can't force it. i don't really know and i don't think you should stop TRYING, but maybe that moment just has to come a little more naturally. (it is sort of a realization after all) maybe no matter what you do you can't make it occur at exactly 5:05 pm today, you know? i don't want to make you feel hopeless or discouraged, and i encourage you to stay in therapy and keep trying and fighting, but maybe there's just been too much pressure or too much too quickly or something. maybe your therapy should be a little more introspective right now; instead of just trying to force you to do something that you're not quite ready for. i don't really know though.

it's SO hard to give up that control and just "walk blindly" as you say (great way of putting it, by the way!) for some reason, it's been very easy for me to just "follow the instructions no matter what" (probably comes down to that perfectionist/obedience/control thing . . .), but it's still really hard for me to deal with all the REAL issues, you know? ugh, it sucks, i agree. and i understand not feeling ready to just surrender EVERYTHING. but don't feel like it won't happen for you! i KNOW it will! you DO have a desire to recover and you CAN see the problem and you DO hate anorexia. i'm confident that you're gonna have that realization/motivation really soon. you've been on the fence for awhile, but i think that's totally normal. heck, it took me 9 months of the binging to finally realize i couldn't live this way any more! and the last two before i went into therapy, i was back and forth daily on whether i was willing to just give it all up and go and get help. and then FINALLY, something clicked. it'll happen for you. i really believe that.

one more quick thing and i've gotta go. don't feel bad about making the "wrong" decision in both of those scenarios. how do you think i even thought of them?!? cuz i know I'd make the wrong decisions too!!! i'd drink the mocha (but no WAY if it had whipped cream) and then i'd scurry over to the internet at the first available opportunity to check it's calories so i could promptly re-arrange my daily meal plan to fit those calories in. and i wouldn't enjoy it either (even if it was the yummiest one ever made!) because all i'd be doing is worrying about how i was going to make the calories fit in my daily plan. in terms of the party, i'd go, but i'd be TOTALLY stressed out about it all day and night. i'd count EVERY calorie from food/drinks and just STOP when i reached my limit. i too wouldn't be able to just be like, "yay! impromptu dinner party with dessert and drinks and friends! how fun!!" nope, stressful freak-out all the way! anyway, have a good day (Happy Valentine's!) and stay strong. You are gonna get better; you just gotta keep with it and keep searching.

You always make me feel so much more "normal," so to speak, Joni. I took what you said to heart and really tried tonight to let myself just GO...because today I could tell I was being too restrictive.
This morning I had a luna bar and a grande nonfat latte for breakfast.
For lunch I had 3 rice cakes with 1/2 cup lowfat cottage cheese on top of them with a sliced tomato and then I had a big apple and some berries. I know that's not enough...
Anyway, for dinner I had A LOT (and I felt badly afterwards, but right now I feel ok b/c it was pretty healthy).
First I started off by eating about 10 wheat thins with a big helping of goat cheese on each one (I couldn't help myself - I sort of felt out of control b/c I guess I was really hungry), then I had a pretty big serving of grilled salmon with BBQ sauce, broccoli (steamed), and spinach salad with beets, onions, and goat cheese (and FF dressing). I was also picking at the food as we were cooking it (you know how that goes...)
For dessert I had 5 dark chocolate covered almonds and a skinny cow fudge bar with a bunch of sprinkles:)
I was pretty full, but not too uncomfortable. I definitely feel like I let myself eat more than I ususally would (like with the goat cheese and a lot of salmon and the chocolate almonds), so I'm proud of myself for that.
I definitely want to go for a jog or brisk walk tomorrow (I think it's b/c I'm kind of feeling like I ate a lot today), but I think that's fine if I do that..don't you?
Anyway, I just wanted to post to tell you that I think I did a pretty good job tonight and I feel ok about it right now.
It's still really hard for me to imagine incorporating 1 or 2 bars in the day and juices...that's what my nutritionist wants me to do. But I guess one step at a time is how I have to approach this.
I honestly hope that I can have some sort of epiphany and see things more clearly b/c I know what my goal is...I just wish it were clearer how to get there.
Thanks again for being so patient with me. I'm going to try hard again tomorrow...I'll let you know how it goes.

hey, great job! i think it's so fantastic that you challenged yourself and pushed past your usual boundaries. sometimes we just gotta prove it to ourselves by sucking it up and DOING it. then we can see that we won't die or gain 40 lbs. or something extreme, you know?!? lol! anyway, you know that your day was light (VERY) and news flash: your dinner and dessert combo was still VERY light! BUT, the important thing is that you were able to challenge your ED and force it to stop restricting you. and that's great! just keep it up and it'll get easier and easier! isn't it bizarre how anorexia makes every day seem like a challenge that we need to overcome/succeed at? sometimes i feel like i'm just fighting this battle against myself and then i gotta take a step back and laugh: it's just food! anyway, you did really good by pushing those boundaries a little. just keep pushing a little more each day (or at least don't push less than the previous day) and i know you'll start feeling much better about everything. it's awesome that you didn't feel guilty or anything either. you did NOTHING bad/wrong and you DIDN'T eat too much at all, so it's good that the ED voice didn't chime in and make you feel guilty.

so, i've got a weird thing going on sort of. i need a little guidance/advice/reassurance or something. basically, on everyone's birthday in my office, the fat lady (really, she's fat) goes out and spends her OWN money to buy the person a big old birthday cake. i think it's weird cuz these cakes are extravagant (more than i ever get on birthdays at home!), plus it makes me ultra nervous. every other place i've worked it's like, "hey, it's my birthday, i brought in some cookies/cake/whatever." and then people have some if they want, etc. no big deal. but in this office, fatty goes around being like, "cake, everyone!" and then everyone piles into the breakroom and eats the cake in there (ie: people don't just take some if they want or go back to their desks to eat it) if fatty sees that you don't have any, she'll be like, "ooo, you didn't get any cake!" and then you either have to refuse it and have everyone STARE at you or get this gigantic slice of cake shoved in front of your face (obviously, i'm biased).

anyway, so basically, this situation makes me VERY nervous. i've been working here since last May and i have avoided having the cake EVERY time (and there's been a lot of times). i leave early sometimes, i slip out of the breakroom, i refuse it and have everyone stare at me with this "well of course you wouldn't eat it cuz you're skinny and you NEVER eat" look (despite the fact that i eat ALL day and donuts on Fridays and candy and cookies and whatever.) i still can tell what they're thinking though, you know?

so anyway, it's basically a VERY uncomfortable situation for me. my therapist is very big on saying "you should not feel forced to eat ANYTHING you don't want to. if the cake makes you uncomfortable, just say no and if they want to judge you, then it's their issue. you don't have to eat it!" unfortunately, that's more easily said than done, you know? it's HARD to not feel incredibly self-conscious and abnormal in those da** cake situations. okay, so now to the point: yesterday, i knew in advance that there was gonna be cake, so (since my stinking diet is 3400ish calories right now and i TOTALLY have calories to spare) i decided i'd FORCE myself to have the cake (alloting 400 calories for a piece). i figured i would feel empowered/better after it and a lot of the nervousness would go away since i'd avoided it for SO long it had just become this big THING, you know? it's like i made it WAY too important, so now having it for the first time was just WAY too nerve-wracking. i thought once i did it once, the other times i'd feel more free to have it/not have it as i please, right?

So . . . fatty pulls out this absolutely insanely large chocolate cake (seriously, it was like a foot tall and probably cost at least 40 bucks.) i got REALLY nervous cuz she's slabbing out huge pieces of this four-layer monster and i REALLY didn't want it. but then my friend was like, "does anyone want to split one?" i totally jumped at that one and we cut a piece in half. so then it felt a little more manageable, you know? but then the weirdest thing happened. it was like i couldn't physically make myself eat it. i took like two bites and felt HORRIBLE. guilty, angry, pressured, unhappy - i don't really know how to describe it. i forced myself to eat 1/2 of my 1/2 piece (which i'm SURE didn't amount to the 400 calories i counted it as) and i honestly couldn't put the fork up to my mouth for any more. i didn't enjoy it AT ALL and it was a suprisingly miserable experience.

so, i really don't get it. why did it upset me so much? i eat cake A LOT (birthdays, graduations, etc.) and i've never had this reaction. i get a little nervous, but i just estimate the calories and enjoy! the cakes are never as HUGE as this one, but still, i only had a 1/2 piece (it still was big, but jeez.) i felt pressured and unhappy and i wanted more than anything to not have that stupid cake in front of me. i'm so confused. i felt upset/angry at fatty AND myself for the rest of the afternoon. why was it such a terrible experience??? it's just cake!

any insight you have would REALLY help. i can't figure this one out. maybe it's something to do with what my therapist said about not ever feeling like i HAVE to eat something i don't want? cuz honestly, i didn't want the huge chocolate monster at 4 in the afternoon. when i have cake at birthdays, etc., it's always at a time that i actually WANT it. and i honestly can just enjoy it. but this sucked. too much pressure? should i have not given in just cuz all the f***ing people in my office would look at me funny? ugh! then like 1/2 hour later i went to get an apple and cake-lady gave me this weird "why are you eating that?" look. i just wanted to scream at her, "because i'm not fat and i prefer not to snack on two huge pieces of cake in the afternoon! sorry!" it makes me SO mad!! i DO eat (a lot!) and i eat LOTS of desserts and i feel like i shouldn't have to PROVE it to the idiots i work with by gorging on cake at 4 in the afternoon! just cuz i prefer to eat dessert at night and not a couple hours before dinner, why do i have to feel this pressure!?!?!

really, i need a little help or something. as you can see, i'm still upset by this and i don't fully understand it. ugh!! ;)

Hey Joni,
I know you posted this more for LS to respond to, but I just thought I'd put in my 2 cents, for what it's worth (obviously I'm not near as far along in recovery as you are, so I'm a little hestitant to try to offer advice to you or anyone else here b/c I'm afraid it may be bad advice). Anyway, here's my take on your situation at work. I totally agree with your therapist on this one. I don't believe it's about the cake itself at all. Like you said, you already eat dessert kind of foods and they don't bother you at all. It's just the fact that those people are practically trying to force the stupid cake on you. I have that happen alot from people who are completely clueless about ED's. It's like you might be completely fine sitting down and eating an entire freaking cake all by yourself (exaggeration, but you know what I mean), but if someone is "hovering" and it feels like they are just dying to see you eat even just a bite of something, it really pisses you off. You just tense up and like you said, you can't even force yourself to eat it, no matter how hard you try. At least, that's always the way I feel. So, if this is even remotely close to how you're feeling, I say keep refusing the cake. If you eat it b/c you just really want to have it, that's great, but if you eat it b/c your coworkers want you to, that's not going to be good for you at all, and you'll end up feeling bad all over again. Think about it, all of those people who want you to eat the cake are not going to give it a 2nd thought when they go home for the evening (whether you eat it or not), but it will stay with you for the rest of the evening and all night, and the next day, on and on, you know what I mean? None of those people are suffering from an ED, but you are, so they will get over it, but you won't if you feel forced to do anything.

Hope this helps at least a little. Sorry this is so long, but I really just wanted to try to help you. You've been such a huge help to me and so many other people on this board.

Let me know things are going. :)

dawgfan, thanks so much for writing back. i was actually gonna post this on the boards as its own thread (cuz i was so upset), but after i wrote it to ls, i was too exhausted to type it all out again! :)

i think you're right and i really appreciate your advice and kind words. i should be eating/not eating cake as a result of ONE thing only: whether or not i want cake. and that's it! i like what you said about me dwelling on it for the rest of the day, while the others (who are the only reason i ate the da** cake) go home and never give it a second thought. i never thought about it that way but you are SO right. that almost ruined my Valentine's Day (flowers from my bf when i got home fixed that!) and for what??? so i could not look like the office freak? it really doesn't seem worth it (especially cuz i DIDN'T enjoy it at all, and you're talking to a girl that LOVES cake!).

but then how do i cope with the looks they give me? the "well of course she wouldn't eat cake, she never eats anything bad, she's skinny, she exercises, she ALWAYS packs her lunch and it's always basically the same thing, she's ANOREXIC" looks. what do i do when the fat lady points it at me and asks me why i'm not having any cake? what do i do when they all look at me with PITY cuz i must be on some terrible diet if i never eat the cake and i'm so thinwhat do i do when my boss accuses me of NEVER eating anything "unhealthy"? (even though i eat the donuts she brings EVERY friday) how do i deal with that?

it just makes me SO mad! i eat 3400 f***ing calories a day; what?!? do i need to wear a badge saying that? ugh! and the worst thing is that i think i get so mad because they're right. i'm anorexic and i try to hide it by donuts and little chocolates in my lunch, but i feel like they all know. and i don't want to be looked at that way anymore. if they only knew what a living hell it is . . .

anyway, sorry for the rant. this really gets me riled up! thank you SO much for your advice though. and one more thing: don't feel like you're "unqualified" to give people advice just cuz you're just starting to recover, okay? you just threw some REALLY good points my way; things that, even though i happen to have been in recovery a little longer than you, i NEVER would have thought of so clearly on my own. so keep 'em coming! we all help each other by seeing these situations differently and reacting to them based on where we are in our own lives. anyway, i just want you to know that what you wrote really helped me, so keep on writing! sorry THIS is so long (i tend to get a little wordy . . .) and i'll talk to you soon!

Hi Joni! I'm sorry it took me so long to respond! I wanted to be able to have enough time to read your post and give you a really thoughtful response.
Ok, so here is what I think: you are giving the cake WAYYYYY too much power. Basically, I picture this giant chocolate cake on a pedestal with God's light shining down on it while the "fat lady" at the office slowly approaches it with her shiny metal cake server!! It's just a piece of cake...and the more you stress about it, the more other people will sense that stress AND the more guilty you will feel when you finally eat it!
Sometimes I want chocolate, so I just eat a handful of chocolate chips and maybe feel guilty for five minutes, but then I'm over it. However, if I sit there and decide for an hour whether or not I should "give in," when I finally do eat them, instead of feeling even more satisfied, I feel even more guilty. That is the difference between normal eating and disordered eating. Most people would LOVE someone to bring treats into the office, or, if they had not had chocolate in a long time, it would be THAT Much more tasty when they finally had it, right? I think so. But for us, it's the opposite. It's STRESSFUL when someone brings something in like that...ESPECIALLY if you feel like they are watching to make sure you eat it!!
I agree with your therapist - if you honestly think it would cause you too much guilt to eat it and you don't want it, then don't. Yeah, people might think this or that, but try to ONLY focus on how YOU feel. Too often we focus on what other ppl are thinking or what they want, when really what we need to learn to do is listen to ourselves.
Picture if you were a completely normal weight (and not extremely thin, like you are)...if you refused the cake, would anyone even flinch? Probably not. Would you flinch if someone else refused it if they weren't extremely thin? No. So the only reason you are worried is because you know you look thin and you don't wnat them to THINK you are anorexic.
OK- well if everyone in the room were in huge ski clothes (we're talking puffy jackets, ugg boots, etc) and you had never met and you didn't know ANYONE'S size, and cake was being offered, would you take it? Or would you refuse it? And if you refused it would you be worried that ppl might be thinking it was b/c you were anorexic? I doubt it b/c they couldn't even see you! So if you picture that scenario and what you would say then you know if you really want it or not...does that make sense? Haha. Sometimes I honestly think my responses confuse you more.

I guess what I'm saying is don't try to plan ahead - get to work, eat your lunch, go thru your day, and if it is a cake day, if you feel like the cake that is brought in, by all means EAT it! But if you don't, then just say "no thanks" and be on your merry way. What everyone else thinks is THEIR business and it should not be important enough to decide how you react...ok?
Do not feel bad about the piece that you did eat the other day. It's not a big deal at all...i promise.
I hope i made sense and that you feel a little better. If not, post again and I'll try a different approach...haha...

Joni,
I have thought long and hard about how you could handle the situation with the people in your office talking about you not eating the cake. There are many different ways you could try to handle it, and I'm not sure which one (if any) of them would work the best. I really think it depends on you and how you will feel at the end of the day.

First of all, you could just say "no thanks" to the cake when it's offered, and if people ask why, just tell them you don't want it. And you could tell yourself that yes, people may talk, but you're not going to let that bother you, b/c you know if you eat the cake when you really don't want it, that will bother you even more.

Now I don't know if I could go with that option, b/c I'm the type of person who it will bother if I know people are talking about me, it doesn't matter how much I say I'm just not going to worry about what they're saying. That kind of stuff does bother me, alot. So, that being said, if I were in your shoes, I would probably try to come up with some sneaky way around the situation. I might try something like bringing some kind of dessert that I had planned on eating that day anyway, and make sure I ate it IN FRONT of EVERYONE just so they could see that I really do eat fattening things, WHEN I WANT them! I would try to do that like everyday, and on the days when the fat lady brings the cake, I would say something like, no, I'm not a "cake" person, I'd much rather have my brownies (or whatever).

Or you might could try to outdo the fat lady, and on someone's b-day, start bringing in your own surprise to share with everyone, only you could make sure it was something that YOU really wanted, not something that someone else wants you to have.

I don't know, that is a really tricky situation. I'm like you though, that kind of thing really burns me up. I don't know why people find it their mission in life to get someone to eat if they don't feel that person is meeting their standards of what they should be eating. It's not like we sit around hovering and eagle-eyeing fat people when they eat, and then go up to them and say "man, are you really going to eat ALL of that cake?!? You are so fat already, you really should cut back!" You know a fat person would be extremely offended, so I don't know why they don't see that skinny people can be just as offended by stupid comments too.

Why can't everyone just mind their own d*** business? AAARRGGGHH!!!

Sorry, like I said, that's just something that really gets to me. Maybe we really just have to learn to live and work around ignorant people, you think?

Please let me know how things are going. Try to keep your chin up, girl! ;)

oh you girls, thank you SO much for taking the time to really look into this situation! i know it seems so dopey on the surface, but it obviously really shook me up and it means so much that you both cared enough to sit down and think about how to help me. your posts were both (don't worry ls, i wasn't confused!) REALLY insightful and kind and i'm so appreciative for that. (don't you just wish we could all meet sometimes?!?)

anyway, i think you're both right in lots of ways. NO, i do not have to eat that cake if i don't want it and f*** all the office fatty's if they want to judge me for it. i know that i DO eat large desserts daily, i just happen to prefer having them after dinner instead of an hour before dinner if you get my drift. i have no reason to impress"them and shouldn't worry myself trying to. i am my own person, i know that i DO eat (plenty!) and if they want to think otherwise, that's their business. it's a little easier said than done when they all give me "the look," but that honestly is what i believe and i feel that i should stick to my guns.

ls, i think you were dead on when you said i put WAY too much pressure on this one piece of cake. (i love the imagery of God's light shining down . . . that's how i felt! lol!!) deciding in advance that i'd force myself no matter what just made it WAY to much of an event and made me stress out for way too long, you know? i think deciding at the moment is best, and you know what? i'm pretty sure i'll rarely have it if i honestly go by my gut. and i'm okay with that. i eat a lot of cake, cookies, cupcakes (you name it!), so when the fatty pulls out these grandiose creations, they don't really tempt or excite me that much. does that make sense? i'm just like, "oh, another one of those." and since it's always at like 4:30/5:00, i'm especially not tempted, cuz i'm thinking, "jeez. i'm gonna be eating dinner in an hour or so." i feel better about not eating it and actually having an appetite for dinner and having my own grandiose dessert later, you know?

also, dawgfan, what you said about bringing in my own treats from time to time, i actually do that kind of a lot. i LOVE baking, but since it's just me and my boyfriend, a batch of cookies lasts us a LONG time. i kind of see my job as an excuse to bake cuz then i don't have to eat chocolate chip cookies ONLY for the two weeks after i bake them! so yeah, i definitely do that, but sometimes i still feel like i'm trying to PROVE that "i'm normal." i'm just so sick of that feeling! i'm sure you both get it too, isn't it frustrating!?!

anyway, i gotta go get some work done (i'm leaving work early to drive up to Milwaukee to see my 13 year old sister's first show! i'm an actress, so i'm SO excited to pass on the genes! I'm also excited cuz i might be brave and get McDonald's or Arby's or something. I KNOW it's crap, but i seriously haven't had it in like 3 years and i'm just getting SO sick of Subway!) But both of you have wonderful, brave days and i'll talk to you soon!

Hey Joni- just to throw something in :)

At Arby's and Mcdonals (and even most fast food palces) there are tons of healthier options now. My fav meal ever is from Arby's and is their Martha's VIneyard Salad with Rasp. Vinaigrette with a Beef and Cheddar Sandwich along with it. SOme people feel it's a lot of food but it's a salad and sandwich! Plus they are jsut SO yummy. At Mcdonald's there are tons of options too..especially their lighter fare. Sure it is still 'fast food' but that doesn't mean it has to be burgers and fries and grease and things liek that.. you shouldn;t be afriad to try it just because of the stigma that goes with it :). Just thought I'd throw that out there too..

thanks, girly! i actually LOVE LOVE LOVE arby's roast beef and curly fries, so i'm just gonna try to be brave. i NEVER eat it, i KNOW i love it, so why not? it's just one time and i totally have the calories to cover it (lol!) anyway, it IS refreshing that they've got healthier stuff, you know? like at mcdonald's i might splurge on the double cheeseburger (mmm), but i know i can get a small salad or a fruit-n-yogurt to "offset" the unhealthiness. or grilled chicken, whatever! anyway, it's WAY less pressure.

Joni-
I'm so happy that you are going to have Arby's or McDonald's today! To a lot of people that may sound like a ridiculous comment (believe it or not there are people who eat a mcdonalds big mac and fries every single day, haha), but I truly am proud of you! A lot of the reason we avoid certain things is because of the stigmas (like girlygirl said) that go along with them. Chocolate is supposed to be "bad," right? But I've read recent research saying it has flavanoids and other beneficial things in it. And McDonald's is "bad," too, right? Actually, a cheeseburger and fries has less calories than some JAMBA JUICE SMOOTHIES. It's so hard, but we have to learn to give up these ridiculous guidelines in our head so that we can just enjoy the foods we love! Soooo much easier said than done. Nothing is "bad"...we just make them bad.

I'm glad you are seeing your cake situation more clearly now, too. Do what you want. If you want to eat it, eat it. If you don't, don't. It's that simple. Do whatever YOU want to do.

Hope you're having a good day...talk to you soon!!! You're really inspirational to me...I'm trying hard!