I felt that I was being harassed by my boss at work because of past, non-work related, issues involving depression. The factory manager had an open door policy, and I asked that non-work issues involving my depression never be brought up.

As a result, they hired a security firm to evaluate me to see "if I was a potentual danger." They had a "big-time" expert, Dr. Harley Stock, meet with me one day, who then determined after one meeting that I "was a dangerous person"! According to information from various websites, he was FBI trained, and appears to have some strong opinions against people with depression and other mental conditions.

My employer fired me after Dr. Stock made his claims, and my only hope is that the Civil Rights Commision can get to the truth, and reasons, for what happened. I never thought that by having depression that I would end up being called a "Dangerous Person", as if I was like a terrorist or violent criminal!

My Veterns Adminstration doctor does not believe that I am dangerous, and offered to work with my employer to address their concerns. They did not want to discuss accessability, and I was told that I would never work for them again.

Is this something new, or have others experienced simular actions? I am having trouble dealing with it, because it is hard finding a new job and knowing what to tell a potentual employer.

If anyone can point me to support or advice, I am interested. My doctor can only treat the depression. The bigger issue is finding justice and being allowed to work.

Michael Lake

Go speak with your Attorney immediately!!! Depression & other types of illness's are covered under the American with Disabilities Act & employers cannot fire person's with those conditions.

You can have justice this route, but I must warn you, employers have been known to put information in an employee's file for other just reasons for a firing. Basically it ends up being your word against theirs.

Do you really want to mess with a huge mess? Beside's would you really want to work for them again? Just some things to consider. Cat

Hi Catgirl and Michael,

What you are describing is a large fear of mine. I would like to say that it surprises me but it does not.

What has happened to me this past year is very different but there are a number of similarities.

People always will give the advice, if you are really down and are seriously considering suicide, then call 911 and get some help, or go to the emergency room, or something like that.

It sounds like good advice and most of the time it probably is…
But what happens when the police come with their guns drawn and beat you into the dirt or kill you.
What happens when the doctor calls the police?
What happens when the therapist calls the police?
And even if you do not wind up dead when the entire incident is on you record.
Either police record or medical record or any other record then you might as well be dead because you will run into it for the rest of your life.
Every job, every relationship you have will be changed.
Well, it was for me anyway.
I DO NOT recommend this to anyone, but honestly, if I ever try it again, there is no way I would ever tell anyone or leave a note or reach out in any way.

I do not trust anyone. It is that simple.

Some might say well you would have died anyway. But, it is not the same, there are fates worse then death in my mind.

Anyhow my story is that I have had one person on the police pull me over and beat me up twice.
It was very traumatic for me and I am still hurting mentally.
I have spent about a year’s wages and time in the courts just trying to keep my license (and thus my job).
My lawyers would not do ANY discovery.
I asked them to get the video from the car for the police beating me up.
I asked for a trial if that was the best way to go.
I asked them to start with the assumption that I am innocent.
Nobody would do any of this.

Every lawyer’s assumptions have been that I over reacted and that I am the “dangerous person”.
They never even thought that it could be the other way.
This was the reaction of my therapist and my family also.
Mother wrote a terrible letter to the lawyer saying that I had tried suicide once and that she would like me under court order to take whatever medication she thinks is necessary.
After this letter, there was never a though given to challenge the actions of the officer.

I was put in a box in a category. I am sure you feel the same way.
Nobody will ever see me as a good, loving person.
Forevermore I am the “depressed” person the “dangerous person”.

THEY MAKE YOU PAY FOR THE PAST FOREVER.
That is the way I feel anyway.

I see some evil in the way my family, doctors, therapists, and the authorities wanted to be able to feel about me. The label depression lets them justify their feelings.
And once one person treats you that way others are soon to follow…. Them it is not long until to act like others expect you to act. It is a very vicious cycle.

I see the same type of prejudice in your employer’s reaction.

Sorry to babble on.
But I think I know what your are talking about. Depression is still used by society to make lives harder in every way.
I have found that people do make it harder for me to work and to find justice. To excuse there actions they blame my depression and me and label me as a “dangerous person”


[This message has been edited by ffsmith (edited 02-12-2003).]

Michael & ffsmith: I don't have anything to offer in the way of a solution for what you are going through, went through, but I would like to say I am absolutely mortified. I guess that shows how naive I am. I thought this was the USA, not the middle ages where people with chemical imbalances were thought to be possessed by demons and put in jail. Good lord!

Michael,
Mental illness is not a 'protected status' against discrimination per se, like age, sex, disability, etc. However, if you can show that the depression WAS a disability at the time of your employ, under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) you may have grounds for a lawsuit or complaint on the basis of a human rights violation. To qualify for ADA the illness must affect a major life area such as work or other major activitie(s), or there may be some other requirements - you should consult the Human Rights Commission or some such body within the city, county or state the employer is located in, or a private attorney if you wish.
One caveat is that it sounds like you may have had a job requiring access to classified material or some knowledge of clandestine or covert operations -or military related? Or a job involving nuclear power or nuclear materials, or as an air traffic controller...these are a few areas where an employer may be justified in using more restrictive criteria in screening for mental illness, although it does sound like in this case they might be snowing you..can't tell without being there.

ffsmith:

It is almost true to say, you are better off not telling your therapist that you have depression!!

The local police have been keeping an eye on me for the last 1 1/2 years or so, even moreso since I made the incredibly stupid mistake of checking 'yes' to the state licence renewal form, 'do you take any medication for psychiatric condition?'. I have no police record or even a driving record but because of some 'odd' behavior I have engaged in, combined with my use of antidepressents; and throw in the fact that our society which has been unduly influenced by the media into believing that anyone is subject to getting mugged at any moment; and finally, the terrorist/code Orange thing ..

[This message has been edited by justin_thyme (edited 02-12-2003).]

Thanks for the replys so far. I did get a lawyer, but he is slow in getting back to me, and never did answer some questions. Because I lost my job, and don't know my future, I was not willing to pay for an expensive lawyer, so I got one working for part of the settlement. I might simply be depressed, but it does not seem like much is happening after three months. Hopefully I can survive until I finally do find a job, or the issue is resolved.

Catgirl, I am lucky that my empolyer's doctor for hire had admitted to witnesses, like my VA doctor, that they were letting me go for their belief that I "was a dangerous person." Even if it was not a handicap issue, it seems like slander. There are no police records that I had ever attacked or threatened anyone with physical harm. (I did threaten to sue a club once, so I guess I can't say that I was never threatening.)

Fear that I will contine to suffer harm and harassment is one of my bigger issues. It is hard to defend yourself from such sick behavior, because when you try to defend yourself, they try to claim that they are right ... simply because you spoke back!

Michael Lake

I think your employer did the right thing.

Imagine this: The company has on record that a doctor has said you are dangerous. The company keeps you around instead of firing you. You turn around and harm or kill a co-worker or customer. Then the company is liable because they had been informed that you were dangerous and done nothing to protect others. If one of my co-workers was considered dangerous then I'd want my employer to assure my safety....wouldn't you?

I don't think it's your old employer you should be angry with....they were just covering their asses. And they are not qualified to make a dignosis about you, which is why they brought in a doctor. You should be angry with the doctor who advised them that you were dangerous.

Lady^,
In this case though, it sounds as if the employer went out of its way to 'prove' that Michael was dangerous, by itself bringing in the doctor, who was known beforehand to have strong bias against the mentally ill. That is what is meant in my post when I said they tried to 'snow' Michael.

Hey justin. Honestly I don't think we have enough info to know what really happened here. It would seem to me that something that this guy said or did make his employer uncomfortable enough to seek the advice of a professional. But we'd really need both sides of the story. I still feel that one the diagnosis had been made that the employer really had no choice but to terminate the guy. Whether they were secretly hoping for this diagnosis as an excuse to fire him or whether they had true concerns is something none of us here can determine.

I'd also like to state that sometimes people with depression, bi-polar or other mental or emotional issues say or do things that they feel are "no big deal" and which others may find very alarming. The depressed person may later laugh it off, saying "oh I was just kidding" or "I was just mad and talking off the top of my head". That may very well be true but the person that it's said to has no way of knowing for sure.

Agreed. I was taking the initial post at face value. It appeared the employee went to the factory manager and simply asked that his depression issues not be brought up in the work place.
I generally take information at face value unless other information is known or answers to questions are forthcoming, such as the one about the access to classified materials. Especially in a forum such as this where there is no physical interaction, i.e. body language, facial expression, etc.

Reading everyone's post was starting to scare me a bit. But I've gotten over it quickly.

The reason for my writing is that my company knew about my depression and anxiety. First, just for future reference, make sure you include Anxiety if you mention your depression. Many people will assume the depression is a result of the anxiety.
The company I work for is well aware I suffer from depression. They offered me the assistance I needed at the time to get better. I even discussed this with my boss.
One of the things that helped me with working with my employers was to give them all kinds of real information on depression. That way, they had no excuse if they in fact, decided to fire me. After all, we all know that some of the things said about depression is myth. But by giving them all the true facts I could find, they had no way of making any type of excuse for getting rid of me.
I'm sure there is much information we do not know about concerning your situation. So I won't go much further into it.

Lady^, I have to disagree with you. I do not feel the company DID the right thing. They were only covering their own butts.
Second, there is such a thing as misdiagnosis. My sister was misdiagnosed with a Bipolar disorder. I also feel that I was misdiagnosed. And you hear about malpractice suits all the time. So just because ONE doctor says he is a danger doesn't mean his diagnosis is correct. I would want (at the very least) two more opinions. One from a doctor of my choosing, and one from a doctor with no ties to either the company or myself.

Then you said "If one of my co-workers was considered dangerous then I'd want my employer to assure my safety....wouldn't you?" I would agree with you to a point. No employer can ASSURE your safety. Yes, they can take measures to help prevent possible dangerous situations. But just as there are times when dangerous situations can be averted, there are times when they can't. And I don't care what the medical community says, there is NO WAY anyone can tell if someone WILL be dangerous. Yes, they can tell if there is a POSSIBILITY that person may become dangerous. But there is no way to guarantee that person will ever commit any type of dangerous attack against anyone.
I also don't think getting angry over the situation is going to help Michael. Most people with depression I have talked to will tell you that anger is a major trigger for depression.

Justin_thyme - with all due respect, I simply cannot believe that the police are keeping an eye on you because you "made the incredibly stupid mistake of checking 'yes' to the state licence renewal form, 'do you take any medication for psychiatric condition?'" The logic just doesn't make sense that a police force would keep an eye on you because you MAY present a danger to society. If that were the case, they'd be watching every person who checked the box (including me). And there simply are not enough police in any force where I would ever see that occuring.
Also, I would think the police would have much more important things to do, such as stopping speeders, issuing tickets, domestic disputes (there's a good one for the police to watch out for), things like that. Things that are much more likely to lead to a crime being committed. I sense there is much more to your situation than you lead us to believe.

Michael - if you feel strong enough to fight this, and you have no objections to airing your affairs, what would you think about getting a local news station involved? You would be able to discuss your plight, it would give the company bad PR (which they all like to avoid) and you could help to educate more people about depression. Yes, many more people would find out about your depression, but you will most likely never meet 99% of those who will see it. And who cares what the other 1% thinks. Its what you think about yourself that is important.

Now I have no clue what kind of job you held before being fired. But that should not matter. Every company has a myriad of jobs within the company, doing different things. I'm assuming this is a larger company since you mentioned them hiring a security firm to "diagnose" you. Most small firms can't afford this. But even if you work in a "security sensitive" area, very few companies have an environment where every job requires a "security check". But I figured you would have mentioned that in your original post if that had been an issue.

I wish you luck with this Michael. Just remember to do this for the right reasons.

[This message has been edited by MudPuppy (edited 02-14-2003).]

Lady^ and justin_thyme,

You are right that I have not given all of the details, for ethical and other reasons. Why whould I want to harm an employer that I believe I should still be working for? True, it would make me happy for the people with claims against me to be proven wrong, but it is the all the companys fault, which was pointed out. The business owner may not even know what is going on, and may not have wanted it to happen.

I also complained to OSHA about safety issues which were not fixed after three years of suggesting that they be fixed. (Funny in a sick way to be fired for claims of being dangerous, when other employees complain about real dangers that management has not fixed after three years!) OSHA did not look very hard, and I understand from friends that the issues are still there. My friends seem afraid to rish their own jobs, so I guess we must wait until a major injury or death ... something which does make me consider going to the news over. However, it is important for me to find a job and deal with my civil rights claim...

I guess that the "real" reason that I got into trouble is that I believe in ethics, justice, truth, and safety. I had a father who drank a lot, and would lie and act violent to cover up his drinking. As a child, I wanted to be the oppsite, to be above un-ethical behavior. Actually, I have gotten into more trouble from being ethical than if I would have lied or looked the other way... This might be a reason for some of my depression, though I am open to the "brain-chemical" ideas for it. The medicin does help.

A friend still working at the employer e-mailed me yesterday, and suggested that I could help myself by improving my apearance. I had, but he remembers how I looked before I left, and I had gotten run-down looking from having to deal with this situation when it developed. Anxiety and depression can show up in your apprearance if you do not comb your hair enough, shave well enought, or fail to keep your teeth "sparkling white" (My VA dentist said that they could not fix it, and would cost a lot to cover up-I have a problem with the enamal on my front teeth).

Yes, I could go on forever with potentual issues, both for and against me. The bottem line is that I was honest, and wanted to work. Many people say nothing, and are more of a danger. We also have the example of the past president that makes it appear to be ok to be un-ethical, which makes me angry.

The one real focus that I had was doing my job with pride and effort. Now I struggle to find a focus. I want to do the right thing. It is hard to know what is right, because it depends on what you value. God, I wish that I never had any "mental health issues." All I want is to work and be happy.

Michael Lake

(Correction to last post)

Somehow I screwed up, and did not post my final update. Other than mispellings, I ment to say in the first paragraph is that ceriain people may be more to blame than my employer it's self. I can not prove what the real leaders know, it may not have gone higher than the plant manager. He may not even know the whole truth, because someone may have done the work for him, and told him what they wanted him to hear. So, I can can only prove for certain that the doctor had made the claims. Anything else needs to be sorted out.

Michael Lake

Micheal & all others,

I'd like to bring the conversation back to what we should be discussing. Depression!!!

Micheal, you said something in your last post in this thread that I really hope you are really finding out to be true.

Everyone else, Cast your vote after what I have to say & lets see what the real truth is.

I believe that the majority of us on this board have developed depression because we are upstanding citizens. We have moral ethics, work ethics & believe in telling the truth. We strive to work hard & make a difference in this life. Whether it is on the job or in our personal relationships. We normally are the care takers or the sensitive ones.

Now on the flip side, because of our caring, hardwork & upstanding ethics we have been cheated, lied to & beaten down for what we believe in. We have continually seen the lazy, lying, cheater receive more rewards in life than us who have ethics & work hard to get what we do out of life rather than those others who backstab, lie & cheat to receive life's rewards.

Anyone else agree with me? Cat

Catgirl,
I cannot always say that I have been the most caring one in relationships, is this what you mean? However, I will say that oftentimes people with depression tend to be people who have more insight into how screwed up things really are. What is very frustrating to me is that when you say this to a therapist for instance, they assume that outlook is DUE TO your depression, i.e. pessimism; which unfortunately may be partially true, which makes it all the more frustrating..because there is that fragment of you that KNOWS you are right!
(the idiocy of people who see the world through rose-colored glasses or who are just plain naive, is a continual source of amazement).
I'm not sure this is the same type thing you were talking about, but in my 'younger days' I did get taken advantage of many times and was naive enough to believe in justice and truth, which is probably why I have become essentially a loner in my middle age - hell is other people. The incredible dirtbags of days past, roommates who fist-fight with the police and store drugs on nuclear submarines, who defecate on their mattresses and then barricade themselves in their rooms for days; landlords who use illegal leases, who have hidden shotguns, who come into my room at night while I am sleeping; and I am a white collar worker with a degree, raised in a middle class family, I am not talking about I a grew up in a dangerous neighborhood or something. This is just a sampling of the kind of people my depression situation has resulted in me associating with. And you can be sure that each of these morons considered ME to be a 'loser'.

Mudpuppy, yes you are right there is something else going on, please refer to my initial post..where I mentioned that I had engaged in 'odd' behaviour which had attracted the attention of our county's finest.

Justin,

You are absolutely right! Along with the characteristics I mentioned in my post, intelligence also seems to play a part in depression. The "knowing better" or having just enough knowledge to know that a Landlord has no right to enter your apartment in the middle of the night bearing a shotgun.

Justin, the things you mention about the Landlord.....illegal leases, enter the apartment at inappropriate times also exhibits the things I mention in my post. The aspects of a lyer, cheater, etc. & he is not suffering any repurcussions & for some reason a complaint from you is not doing any good. Once again, the unethical person comes out on top, when the just or ethical person loses.

To me, this is not due to outlook but an analysis of what is truly going on in this world. And if your therapist believes your depression is due to outlook then he/she must be wearing rose colored glasses.! Cat

(P.S. --- time for your therapist to go back to school & learn a few things, either that, or incur a few hard knocks himself/herself.)

Catgirl and Justin_thyme,

Both causes and effects of depression are issues, so the details are only important to a degree, as Catgirl helped to point out. However, claims that I was a “dangerous person”, because of depression or other claims, make me think about proof that I had done a good job and was a good, honest, caring person!

OH YEA! THEY SENT ME MOST OF MY PAPERWORK FROM MY JOB AT WORK! I have to thank all of you who posted for causing me to see it! Here is why I am so excited, and not as depressed for the moment:


Back when I was dismissed, my employer shipped my personal tool box and a box of papers and stuff to me. “They were afraid to have me pick it up in person.” In the box were hundred of pages of reports, task lists, e-mails of projects I was working on, etc. All the evidence to show that I was putting a lot of good effort into my job!

With all this documentation, which THEY shipped to me, it is hard to see how I could want to harm them if I was doing so much work to make the company better!

I had this information for almost three months, and did not realize it’s positive worth. I had not mentioned it to my civil rights lawyer back then, because I did not realize it was important. On last Friday I called him right away, and was told that it was a very good thing to have such evidence. So, I feel more hopeful that the truth will be known!

Depression does seem be influenced by feelings of right & wrong, truth, ethics, etc. Simply being given a little more reason to hope seems to go a long way. Still a struggle ahead, but I do not plant to stop struggling. Screw those who would try and claim that I am a bad person. I will prove them wrong to their peers if I must!

Michael Lake