Hi,
I was reading one of your earlier posts, where you had said that you are on a very high dose of Ibuprofen daily and had just had a fusion on 3-5. I am very curious because my Dr. won't even let me take a normal dose, he said that any anti-inflammatory can retard bone growth, causing my fusion to possibly fail. Well after two failed fusions I will certainly stay away from anything that might cause another. So I am just wondering why your Dr. has no problem with this, I suffer from my arthritis terribly because of no anti-inflammatories, I would love to be able to take them if i had some proof that it wouldn't interfere with the fusion. I hope you have a wonderful reason I can present to my Dr. as to why they won't bother me. Good luck with your recovery.

Carol

Same here......what I wouldn't give for a anti-inflammatory :(

Hi,
So glad to hear my Dr. isn't the only one telling me that. Hope you find some relief in the future.
Carol

Me three, I would kill for an ibuprofen 800.
Sheri

Hello To All!
Well, I don't know what to think. I was on the max dose (2400 mg/day) prior to the surgery since the whole Vioxx thing blew up. I had taken Bextra with very good results (Celebrex, too) but they really bothered my stomach so I was switched to the Ibu then (maybe 3 months prior to surgery). I am sure I was NEVER told not to take Ibu and I am also sure that I was about 4 -5 months post op when I told my doc I thought they weren't doing anything for me. He said to quit them if that were the case and he up'ed my dosage of Flexeryl at that time. Well, I quit the Ibu and had about the 2 worse weeks of my like. At the next apt I told him about it and he said, "So, I guess they were doing something for you." We had a good laugh over it, actually. Adn I started taking Ibu again.
Now, I have run across all kinds of references that say NSAIDS are a no-no with fusions but I didn't think Ibu was in that catagory. I never say never but I will be drop-dead shocked if my doc just didn't know this or just didn't think about what I was telling him.
I will surely ask my doc but I don't dare do it until my next apt. Here's a funny and silly situation for you: my doc's PA is a real piece of work. I call him Angry Andy. He is never rude or mean but he has one channel only - AA fires questions at you and doesn't wait for the answer before racing off on his own diagnosis. Luckily, he is often right.
Well, I suddenly have a problem in my neck. Painful all the way into my hand and thumb is very numb. My doc is away on vacation. I called AA from work on Tues because I'm thinking I need to let them know. AA about blew a gasket and orders me, ORDERS ! - me home from work for the rest of the week! No visit, I haven't been seen, no MRI or xray, no need because he just knows it's muscular and all due to the ergonomic-incorrectness of my work station. So here I am at home with a numb hand and a sore back. The PC here bothers my neck just as much as the one at work, too. Anyway, I don't dare call AA again! I'm afraid he'll send an ambulance to get me and put me in the hospital. But I sure will discuss this with my doc and thoroughly, too. Just btw - I was considered at low-risk for non-fusion: I don't smoke and so on. And BTW - I put the Ibu information on a bazillion med forms (for my GP and for the hospital prior to my surgery) - not one word was ever said to me about it. In fact, the only thing I was told was to stop taking Vit E 2 wks prior to surgery because Vit E is an anti-coagulant.
What do you make of them apples? I do enjoy being able to chat. Take good care - Suzy-Q

Hello Again -
Well, I have been busy doing some research on this Ibuprofen after fusion question. Considering that I 1) have cat and bone scan results that confirm I have a failed fusion and, 2) I took 2400 mg Ibu per day for most of the last year and a half! - I'm rather interested in the subject. First, I was wrong in an earlier post - Ibu is a NSAID. But from there things get a whole lot less clear. But take a look at this site and read the whole page - the letter at the top is responded to by letters below. Sure looks like there is controversy to say the least. http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/316/7141/1390

I note the responses to this letter saying no Ibu should be Rx'ed after an orthopaedic surgery include some pretty heavy -lifters in the field. They come right back that there are no good studies with solid evidence that this is a valid approach. I haven't read them all but I will.

I know from my scan reports that I apparently 'resorbed' my own fusion - I'd hate to learn that I was 'resorbing' my fusion as I was absorbing my Ibuprofen! Thoughts? Suzy-Q

My daughter's dr allowed her to take motrin post op. She has only taken it once or twice during her 8 month post op time. but he said it wasn't a problem for her. I was wondering if whether you can take it depends if you had bmp or not. She did not have bmp or is this another dr preference? Don't know and am curious also. cas

I didn't even realize this was a contreversal subject:) My Dr. said Tylonol only and finally at 3 monts he said I could use my aleeve and motrin again for my migranes. (Then again...I stayed away from it because I was told it affects the fusion and still my fusion failed. Go figure...not a smoker, drinker and did not use anti-inflammatories and still no fusion :eek: )

Talk to ya all later,
Lorie :angel:

Good Afternoon All-
I have done as much addtional research as I can on this 'Ibuprofen after fusion issue' but my danged neck/arm/hand problem is really limiting the amount of time I can work at this computer. Between this and my back, I am falling apart at the seams and should be ready for the glue factory pretty dern quick!
All that I find indicates that there is not a good deal of clinical evidence to support this ban against Ibuprophen but many docs still prohibit it to be on the safe side. Can't really blame them for being cautious. I'll admit learning a thing like this a week after learning I have a failed fusion was a bit of a body blow. But I think Lorie's comments are a big help in that it reminds me that we can't always know the reasons why and these fusions sometimes fail depite all the right actions and precautions.
I am going top focus on the 'how do we fix me' plan because I sure need fixing! And I sure have a lot of fight left in me. I am chomping at the bit to know what my options are. I know some of them will make me sick to think of but I'd much rather be moving forward. I like forward. Take good care - Suzy-Q

Here Here, let's keep looking forward to finding the cure of these cycles of pain!
I am with you, Suzy-Q, with new pains and few answers. I saw my neurosurgeon yesterday and she is going to talk to my orthosurgeon on Monday and try to figure this all out. She realized that when I called the Ortho's office, they put me with the PA who just goes by the text book explanations and did nothing to get to the root of my new problems. So, she is taking it on herself to get the ball rolling and to get to the bottom of the Dx. I feel so alone in this pain and I sit here in tears. But knowing that there are people here who understand makes it worth sitting for a little while to write.

Bless everyone who finds themselves on this board :angel:

Lorie

Hi Lorie -
Gosh, I must have missed somehting? Is there some new problem you're going through? I know you are in pain and have been and that you are scheduled for a revision surgery on 3/15 - a 360, I think. But your last post here sounds like something else is up? Golldangit - as my Pop used to say - cuz I sure thought your plate was full as it were and your not needing anything 'new' at this late date. A change in Dx is needed?
And so you, too, have been dealing with a PA, you say. I have to laugh when I think of mine - Angry Andy. He grounded from work and diagnosed my problem right through the phone. Wonderful powers he has, has Andy. Only it hurts just as much at home as it did at work. What a hoot. March 4th already - are you nervous? Suzy-Q

Hi All, :wave:
Well I really didn't mean to start a panic :eek: , I too have done everything rite, no smoking for 19 yrs. now, no drinking, good diet,no Ibu or arthritis drugs of any kind, only arthritis & stage 2 diabetes are my other ailments, and still have two failed fusions :confused: , I was so hoping the replies would be how I can maybe start taking it, oh well so much for that one. I thank you Suzy-Q for all the research, I know how painful being at the computer can be.

I do agree with Lorie, let's look forward, positive energy :bouncing: results in positive results. I feel for all of the failed fusions on this and any other board out there.

I am having some increased problems with the nerve damage pain, so much so that I called my Dr. he wants me to get an xray on monday at my primary Dr. and send it to him over night(he's a 3 hr. drive from me). His response to my call really has me worried, does he think something is wrong already???? I'm only 3 months post op, I really can't take another failed attempt, 4 surgeries in 3 yrs. is just my limit. I can't do anything now, and he suggested putting the leg brace back on, it attaches to the body part of the brace I have now(hard version). It sure seems like I'm going backwards. I'm sorry to go on and on, but I really don't want to have my hubby hearing all of this, he works three jobs because I can't work at all, so he really don't need the extra pressure of me rite now.

Well good luck to you all in the failed fusion club, not exactly a long line to join that one, but lots of eager ones waiting to graduate into the success club I'm sure. :)

Carol

As much as it hurts to sit at the computer...it sure is nice to talk with ya'all. Carol- 4 surgeries in 3 years, wow. I hope this is it for a long while for you. Good luck w/ the x-rays, and let us know how it turns out.

Suzy- I loved your post that talked about Angry Andy:) I guess we need to find a way to lighten things up at times, huh? I am in constant pain w/numbing and burning sensations and a bladder issue going on. The Neuro. is not comfortable doing the fusion until I see a urologist first and get some procedure done to measure what the bladder is holding. I told her that I can not take the pain much longer...I cant sit, stand or walk. I have to change my position every 20 mins (and even then I am still in pain).

Anyway, I will find out on Monday if my surgery is still on or not. Anyone who believes in prayer, please pray that the surgery goes on as scheduled.

Hugs to all,
Lorie :angel:

Hi,
There can be nothing stronger than the power of prayer. I hope I never see another OR ever again. I hope your still on for the 15th, I can remember that horrible pain you describe, I would not wish that on my worst enemy. I truely believe God is watching over all of us, and he only gives us what makes us stronger. I will be praying extra hard for you Lorie. I too loved the Angry Andy, thats just way too much,lololol. A lil humor never hurt anyone, except for the first week after surgery that is,lol.

May God Bless all of us today and everyday to come.

Carol :wave:

Good Evening to One and All,
I'm just getting back from a night out on the town - whoopie! I have been house-bound since Tuesday so I agreed to take in a hockey game with my husband, a quick trip to Home Depot, and a meal at our favorite italian restaurant. I have been working since 12 wks post -op but even so my husband has had a lot of slack to pick up for 3 years now and I try to do things with him when I can. Little things like this high school hockey game mean a lot to him so I I go. Despite all my issues, I feel I have always been very fortunate that my symptoms are just a few degrees less than 'unbearable'. In comparison with so many, I have it easy.
Lorie - I so very sorry to know this bladder problem threatens your surgery date. Lordy, I know I would be near mad at a complication like that at the 11th hour! Just an FYI - I thought an ultrasound could determine the contents of the bladder. In fact, I was recently visiting a friend in hospital who had just had this done (he was catheritized) for fear that his bladder was not emptying fully and thus susceptible to infection. Please keep us posted.
Carol - I am so very sorry for your pain as well. It must be so frustrating not to feel a little better every day. And so much nerve pain - rotten pain, that is, too. Do you mean that you'd have a leg brace that would work with your hard plastic back brace. Huh? And do you have an bone growth stimulator? I guess I'm wondering what they did differently this time to increase your chances of a succesful fusion? And a 3 hr drive!! Land-of-Goshen, only a very, very good doc is worth that. But when I read Sheri's posts I realize a good doc is worth every mile!
My doc has never mentioned any meds for nerve pain. In fact, I'm not sure anymore that my 'sciatic' pain has anything to do with the sciatic nerve at all. I guess from my cat scan I have a screw loose (yeah, me too Lorie!) and the report says that screw has preforated the cortex - I'm wondering if this isn't the explanation for my left bum pain. Well, I'm wondering a whole lot of things since I got my reports.
Absolutely everybody, upon hearing that I have a failed fusion, demands to know from me that I will be taking all my stuff and seeking another opinion from some major medical center (I'm in NH so for me that means BOSTON or Dartmouth Hitchcock) as though this failed fusion is proof positive that my doc did me wrong. Did you get a 2nd opinion before your surgery decisions? I did get 2 opinions about my original fusion. I know multiple opinions are a good idea. I'm not convinced of my docs incompetence - not by a mile. And I still don't know what his opinion of my results will be. I'm just not feeling very lucky and I don't see any easy fixes for me.
But whatever happens I know I'll be better able to face it with this board and you - I'm in the river. Suzy-Q

Hey Suzy-just to add to your post...I too trust my orthosurgeon w/ all my heart. He came highly recommended by my G/P as well as 2 co-worker and he was voted by other doctors as one of the top Orthosurgeons that they would send their family members to. Still, as you mentioned, when he Dx. me with a failed fusion, I did go for a 2nd and 3rd opinion just in case. They all agreed and even my company dr. (who is suppose to be for the company and not so much for me) said the X-Rays showed a failed fusion...so, I believe my surgeon was correct in his Dx. When we talked about why this happened, he said that of all the fusions he does (and he is a spine specialist, so he only works on spines) there are those who have reasons to not fuse, you know the ones where the person has a history of smoking, obese, certain other health issues or they don't follow their post op instructions and break the fusing before it's completly solid. But, he said he has 1 or 2 a year that do not fuse and he can not come up with a reason. (Lucky me, huh? :) ) As you mentioned, it doesn't do any good to keep trying to figure out why I did not fuse...our time and energy is probably a lot better spent looking to our future healing...I am confident it is out there somewhere :D

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know how my surgeon explained it to me. It seems to be a small %, but some just don't fuse and there is no apperant reason. Talk to you later,
Lorie

Hi, :wave:
Suzy, to answer your questions, yes the leg brace attaches to the hard back brace, it is to keep me from turning at the waste, no danger of the fusion being disturbed that way. It was removed on Feb. 1st, I was so happy it really was hard living that way. The nerve pain meds, nuerontin, is used by epileptic patients for seazures, but does wonders for nerve pain. It appears to stop the pain signals from getting to the brain, so I'm really in the pain but my brain just don't know it, kinda cool huh. I'm hoping that my body is just getting used to the neurontin and not that the pain is so bad it is over riding the med. No i do not have a bone stimulator, but it was brought up at my last visit, I did have one with the second fusion, didn't help that one succeed. My second failed fusion, the screws came loose, terrible pain from that.I would think your bum pain was from that loose screw. My hubby had a ball with me "having loose screws" lol. The screws came loose because the fusion failed which caused some movement which caused the screws to come loose after a while. I sure hope thats not your trouble. I have the same Dr. with all of my surgeries. Yes he is very good, well worth the trip, not many docs give you their personal cell number. I have had several opinions, but the bottom line is it just woudln't grow, no reason that I'm doing or the docs doing. I haven't smoked in 19 yrs. not very overweight. Do everything I'm told, but still no luck. This time we are doing the brace thing, looks like I might be in it for 6 to 12 months, yeah!!!!! but i have grown used to it, imagine that! The second failed fusion, when they went in to remove the screws taht were loose from the first one, they packed more BMP in there, but no screws, no place to put them. The lobes of the vertibre where the screws go, are smaller than normal and with holes being there from the ones that were removed not enough room to make new holes. The new BMP didn't fuse as fast as it should have, the vertibre moved AGAIN and then the gap was to big for it to fuse, that all led me to where I am now. Frustrated, but very hopeful. I still have faith in my Dr. I have been asked why don't i find a new one, my answer to that is, He can't make bone grow, he's not God. He has done everything in his power, I have researched all I can find and he really can't do much more. Sorry I am so long in this post, sometimes you just need to vent. I am so sorry that it seems your fusion has failed, I certainly know exactly how you feel, it is a terrible feeling when they tell that.

Lorie, I have to agree with you, so glad your Dr. has tried to find the reason for the failure. My doc has really started to take it personnally, he is determined to get a fusion!!! lol, I think he's more determined thatn me at this point.I'm growing so tired of fighting this. I have decided this is my last surgery unless I'm in a wheelchair, then I might condsider another. BY the way a wheelchair is how get around if I have to walk more than 15 minutes or so. I hope that improves as time goes by, but it doesn't seem to be. I hope you get some resolution to your problem. I will certainly keep you both in my special prayers, God Bless.

Carol

Good Evening -
I returned to work to day and also to my beloved pool for my pre-work swim. What used to be for years a 1.5 mile flat out lap swim has become a PT approved, mix-up of stretches, modified strokes and kickboard exercises. My neck didn't like it but my back sure did. I just don't like not getting my pool time in and I am sure it does me a world of good because my land-based exercise is reduced to walking since the weight-bearing stuff is so uncomfortable.
I have read your wonderful responses several times. I am struck by how much our bodies tell us except that we don't see clearly until a 'test' or a doctor makes it real for us. Lorie and Carol - you sure knew there was something wrong after your surgeries. I did too but I didn't really 'know' it until the tests told me so. I 'knew' months ago that I couldn't move right in the pool and it was very odd because I wasn't in pain in the water and I was doing all kinds of strengthening stuff but it was no good. I could feel the wrong movement. And I sure knew something was up with my bum pain and as soon as I saw the report saying the one screw had preforated the cortex I just knew that was the one because it was so very there from the moment I opened my eyes.
Anyway, I'm rambling but it occurs to me how often I hear people demanding to know why so and so didn't go to the doctor or call the doctor or go to the hospital and so on. And tonight I am thinking that even when fairly experienced, well-informed people go to the doctor all the time - it isn't so easy as some would have you think to 'know' when there is a problem. We three are a pretty good example - all with fine doctors and great medical care, all straining to do it right, and all of us knowing and not knowing at the same time. Funny. Interesting.
Your stories are an inspiration to me and I am glad to 'know' you. Night - Suzy-Q

Wow, back to work...I hope it is an easy transition for you. I know that the pool felt wonderful. I have always gotten a great release from pain and tension from being in the pool, even if it is just walking ans stretching. You have made some really valid points...sometimes it is very hard to know how serious things are, if they are over exagerated by something we have done or even if it is just a new side affect from meds or therapy. There are just so many different aspects to pain and the cause of it.

Your support and insight has also been inspirational and although you are back to work, I hope you stay in touch. Please do not over do things either, I'd rather see you less on these boards and know that it is because you are out living life a little more.

I will keep you and your work in my prayers,
Lorie :angel:

Hi Lorie - no need to worry I'm not going anywhere. I guess I must not have mentioed it before but I was only home from work for 3 days last week. I have been back to work for quite some time since my surgery. I went back to work in June (12 weeks post-op). Yes, it was very hard to go back physically but I was mentally very ready. And for a brief time in the fall I started to get better but .... I am a mover and a doer. I can't lie around unless I am really down and out. Luckily, my pain has always been very low at the start of the day and pretty manageable with meds until dinner time. I am also very lucky that I have adjusted quite well to the meds. After a few days, I usually have few side effects. I take Flexeryl 40 - 60 mg a day and plenty of folks would be asleep on half that dose. But I was adjusted after 4 days and I hardly notice a single thing (except that I sleep better). Again, I'm lucky.
And I have always thought that my pain is just a few notches less than many peoples. I hurt, no doubt of that. And if I bend and do stupid things like lift practically anything, I will have pain that will stop me and lay me low. But with my meds and with gentle, slow, delibrate activity I can get to my desk job and do it and do it fairly well. Everyone sees me all crippled when I take my hourly stretch and walk around break and everyone sees me trying to do stairs likea very, very old person. But the work helps me deal with the discomfort and my co-workers are quite wonderful to me, too. It also helps pay the bills! I feel very fortunate to be able to work and my heart breaks for the many people on these boards who are kept from this so-important aspect of their lives. So far as work goes, I won't go down without a heck of a fight.
And so it was doubly galling to me that Angry Andy pulled me out of work for 3 days (nearly depleting my entire sick bank) last week without any plan to image or diagnose my neck problem. Arrgghhh.... But don't let me get going on that again.
Unusual, my day started with a ferocious aching arm/shoulder. Think I might have slept on it wrong. The thumb is still numb and I had to miss my swim. But I got to work and took my meds and it calmed down nicely by noon. Never a dull moment, eh? Suzy-Q