Sandyspen
03-04-2006, 09:26 AM
Well, it's almost a week since the doc sent a med for mom's aggressive behavior. I believe he sent busprione, and stated that it would take 2-3 weeks to work well.
I saw her one day last week and she was so peaceful, just sweet as could be and looked like her old self. Can't remember if I posted that info or not. It was such a relief to see her calm.
That was the only day of calm, though. She was so agitated and calling me 5-6 times a day, asking me to take her home. G suggested that I not visit so often and I hadn't been to see her in 4 days until yesterday. I don't answer most of her calls because she simply calls back in 5 minutes if I do talk to her.
I went early yesterday, knowing that's a better time for her. It was the same old same old. Her bag was packed and she was certain that I was taking her home. She fluctuated from crying and forlorn to agitated and threatening if I didn't take her home.
G came back to her room and I thought this was a little odd. She asked if I would talk to my mom about using her phone. That it's a business line and mom stays on it all day long; calling me, my brothers and taking out the phone book to simply call people at random!
I'm sitting here with a woman who can't remember anything said 2 minutes ago and G wants me to tell her NOT to use her phone.....I said, "I do tell her when she calls me, but she doesn't remember. "Mom cuts in and says, "I don't use the phone. I've never called you!"
I take G aside and ask about the day that Mom was calm and happy. She said her doc sent a prescription for lorazepam (sp?) but only for severe aggression, when she's totally out of control. For a daily med, he sent busiprone (sp?) and it takes several weeks to get into her system. The day she was calm, they had to use lorazepam because she was hitting.
She says, we need to tell her that this is her new home. When I tell her she can go home "someday," she remembers it and keeps packing. They tell her this is her home and her old home is gone now. Not know what is right to do, I went along with this to mom. She did unpack and put her things away, bawling her eyes out.
I know it won't really matter, she won't remember later. But my questions are?
Does anyone have experience with this buspirone? Will it eventually work? Does anyone get the lorasepam? I saw the affects of it and it was wonderful. Is it always only used for severe aggression?
I'm in the process of changing doctors. It took us 4 days and a call to her HMO to even get a call-back from her doctor when we needed meds.
And does anyone else think it's strange that G asked me to make mom stop using her phone. She doesn't remember anything I say, either. I must admit, I can see the strain in all their faces. Mom has worn them out. This agitation is relentless, so I'm trying to keep an open-mind. All their other charges are calm and sweet ladies. Mom is a tyrant.
I'd appreciate anyone's suggestions or thoughts. I tell ya, your vision gets blurred after awhile when dealing with this.
I saw her one day last week and she was so peaceful, just sweet as could be and looked like her old self. Can't remember if I posted that info or not. It was such a relief to see her calm.
That was the only day of calm, though. She was so agitated and calling me 5-6 times a day, asking me to take her home. G suggested that I not visit so often and I hadn't been to see her in 4 days until yesterday. I don't answer most of her calls because she simply calls back in 5 minutes if I do talk to her.
I went early yesterday, knowing that's a better time for her. It was the same old same old. Her bag was packed and she was certain that I was taking her home. She fluctuated from crying and forlorn to agitated and threatening if I didn't take her home.
G came back to her room and I thought this was a little odd. She asked if I would talk to my mom about using her phone. That it's a business line and mom stays on it all day long; calling me, my brothers and taking out the phone book to simply call people at random!
I'm sitting here with a woman who can't remember anything said 2 minutes ago and G wants me to tell her NOT to use her phone.....I said, "I do tell her when she calls me, but she doesn't remember. "Mom cuts in and says, "I don't use the phone. I've never called you!"
I take G aside and ask about the day that Mom was calm and happy. She said her doc sent a prescription for lorazepam (sp?) but only for severe aggression, when she's totally out of control. For a daily med, he sent busiprone (sp?) and it takes several weeks to get into her system. The day she was calm, they had to use lorazepam because she was hitting.
She says, we need to tell her that this is her new home. When I tell her she can go home "someday," she remembers it and keeps packing. They tell her this is her home and her old home is gone now. Not know what is right to do, I went along with this to mom. She did unpack and put her things away, bawling her eyes out.
I know it won't really matter, she won't remember later. But my questions are?
Does anyone have experience with this buspirone? Will it eventually work? Does anyone get the lorasepam? I saw the affects of it and it was wonderful. Is it always only used for severe aggression?
I'm in the process of changing doctors. It took us 4 days and a call to her HMO to even get a call-back from her doctor when we needed meds.
And does anyone else think it's strange that G asked me to make mom stop using her phone. She doesn't remember anything I say, either. I must admit, I can see the strain in all their faces. Mom has worn them out. This agitation is relentless, so I'm trying to keep an open-mind. All their other charges are calm and sweet ladies. Mom is a tyrant.
I'd appreciate anyone's suggestions or thoughts. I tell ya, your vision gets blurred after awhile when dealing with this.
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BarbaraH
03-04-2006, 09:51 AM
Hi Sandy,
I'd suggest to G that the office door be locked, the phone book be put out of sight, and/or maybe even the phone be tucked into a desk drawer. For many AD patients, it's out of sight, out of mind.
I'd also suggest that they use the lorizepam more frequently until the other medicine kicks in.
Perhaps you should take the suitcase away so all signs of a trip home or away are gone. If there are any few items like photos or a lamp or a pillow that meant a lot to your mother and have little real value, bring those things to her new room.
At one stage, my mother carried a soft silky stuffed bunny (dressed in a pinafore and hat) as if the toy was a favorite doll or child. She even rode this rabbit on her walker seat, talked to it, and cuddled it. I first sat the bunny on her bed and Mom picked it up from there. Maybe your mother needs something to carry around like this.
Come to think of it, I also always complimented Mom on how lovely her home was. I didn't say apartment or room as I didn't want to open that can of worms.
It does get less traumatic as they slip farther away. Sad, but true.
Hope these few ideas are helpful.
Hugs - Barbara :)
I'd suggest to G that the office door be locked, the phone book be put out of sight, and/or maybe even the phone be tucked into a desk drawer. For many AD patients, it's out of sight, out of mind.
I'd also suggest that they use the lorizepam more frequently until the other medicine kicks in.
Perhaps you should take the suitcase away so all signs of a trip home or away are gone. If there are any few items like photos or a lamp or a pillow that meant a lot to your mother and have little real value, bring those things to her new room.
At one stage, my mother carried a soft silky stuffed bunny (dressed in a pinafore and hat) as if the toy was a favorite doll or child. She even rode this rabbit on her walker seat, talked to it, and cuddled it. I first sat the bunny on her bed and Mom picked it up from there. Maybe your mother needs something to carry around like this.
Come to think of it, I also always complimented Mom on how lovely her home was. I didn't say apartment or room as I didn't want to open that can of worms.
It does get less traumatic as they slip farther away. Sad, but true.
Hope these few ideas are helpful.
Hugs - Barbara :)
Sandyspen
03-04-2006, 10:24 AM
Barbara,
That's some great ideas! I will talk to G more about the phone.
I had taken a few doilies she'd crocheted and put them under the lamps, etc. Tried to give it a homey look. And brought some knick-knacks that were hers. She has them all removed and packed away every time I arrive.
I can't believe I hadn't thought to remove the suitcases entirely. I will do that the very next time I go down there. For all the months and months she was at my home, she kept putting her things back into those suitcases, wouldn't use the dresser at all. I wish I had thought of it then.
She's a great doll collector, and I do have several of her collection here. I think I'll take a few of those. She also has a stuffed poodle that she treated like a baby. It goes too! I was kind of afraid of making her feel that I was taking too much from her old home, but now, I think I should. If it helps her to feel "at home."
I'm so anxious to get a new doctor. It will be my own md, her HMO requires a referral for a geriatric. At least I know him, and will feel comfortable telling him all that we're going through.
Thanks so much, Barbara.
That's some great ideas! I will talk to G more about the phone.
I had taken a few doilies she'd crocheted and put them under the lamps, etc. Tried to give it a homey look. And brought some knick-knacks that were hers. She has them all removed and packed away every time I arrive.
I can't believe I hadn't thought to remove the suitcases entirely. I will do that the very next time I go down there. For all the months and months she was at my home, she kept putting her things back into those suitcases, wouldn't use the dresser at all. I wish I had thought of it then.
She's a great doll collector, and I do have several of her collection here. I think I'll take a few of those. She also has a stuffed poodle that she treated like a baby. It goes too! I was kind of afraid of making her feel that I was taking too much from her old home, but now, I think I should. If it helps her to feel "at home."
I'm so anxious to get a new doctor. It will be my own md, her HMO requires a referral for a geriatric. At least I know him, and will feel comfortable telling him all that we're going through.
Thanks so much, Barbara.
Martha H
03-04-2006, 10:25 AM
It does strike me as strange that you are supposed to tell your mom not to do something. G may have been at her wits end that day. She must know that nobody can tell an AD patient what to do and have it done. That phone must be unaccessible. Not where she can go and use it at will. She could be dialing Timbuctoo!
In the olden days of dial phones, there was a phone lock one could buy to prevent it from being used by an unauthorized person. There must be something similar for push button phones. Mom has a phone by her bedside. It is on a special deal with verizon - she ONLY takes incoming calls. She cannot make a call. There is no dial tone and no connection. It's only there for us to call her - and then she often ignores it.
Of course the NH needs to have a business phone, but this is not her first patient, so I wonder why she doesn't have it in a place no one but an authorized person can get to it.
I also think Mom should be getting the Lorazipam daily, and when she has calmed down, gradually get her off of it. Not to be saved for emergencies. Every violent day is an emergency. She could get a stroke from anger!
Love,
Martha
In the olden days of dial phones, there was a phone lock one could buy to prevent it from being used by an unauthorized person. There must be something similar for push button phones. Mom has a phone by her bedside. It is on a special deal with verizon - she ONLY takes incoming calls. She cannot make a call. There is no dial tone and no connection. It's only there for us to call her - and then she often ignores it.
Of course the NH needs to have a business phone, but this is not her first patient, so I wonder why she doesn't have it in a place no one but an authorized person can get to it.
I also think Mom should be getting the Lorazipam daily, and when she has calmed down, gradually get her off of it. Not to be saved for emergencies. Every violent day is an emergency. She could get a stroke from anger!
Love,
Martha
Sandyspen
03-04-2006, 10:34 AM
That's what I think too, Martha. The Lorazipam should be used until the other stuff kicks in. Good grief! That's what it's for. G has said all along, though, that this isn't a good doctor. And I agree.
We called his office for nearly a week, begging for something to calm her with no response at all. At this point mom was violent and hitting. I called his office, G called his office. His office said he'd call back, then said a medical assitanct would call back. Day after day, we never received a call back, and 2 of those days, I know he was in his office taking patients.
I called mom's HMO and told them about our situation and they agreed to send paper-work to change doctors. Mom's doctor called within an hour of this call to the HMO.
As G says, what if it was an emergency! Actually, to me, it seemed an emergency.
Yes, I do think G and her staff are feeling the strain of this also. She made several calls to the doctor also, that went ignored.
Sad situation.
We called his office for nearly a week, begging for something to calm her with no response at all. At this point mom was violent and hitting. I called his office, G called his office. His office said he'd call back, then said a medical assitanct would call back. Day after day, we never received a call back, and 2 of those days, I know he was in his office taking patients.
I called mom's HMO and told them about our situation and they agreed to send paper-work to change doctors. Mom's doctor called within an hour of this call to the HMO.
As G says, what if it was an emergency! Actually, to me, it seemed an emergency.
Yes, I do think G and her staff are feeling the strain of this also. She made several calls to the doctor also, that went ignored.
Sad situation.
BarbaraH
03-04-2006, 11:19 AM
Glad you found my suggestions helpful. I hope you Mom will latch onto that little poodle and peace will reign!
I had the same situation with Mom's doctor of 30 years. I called at 4:40pm on a Thursday and got the answering machine. I then called the emergency number from the machine message and said I needed to talk to the doctor as it was an emergency. No repsonse. I called the office at 7:30am on Friday morning and talked to a nurse I'd gotten to know and told her it was criminal to have an emergency number with no help available. I was furious. She was sympathetic and the doctor called me an hour later. He said he'd gotten the message when he returned to town at 11pm and he decided it was too late to call. I read him the riot act. He agreed that the system failed me. I said the system and he were both at fault and I fired him. He refused to make "housecalls" at the ALF or NH anyway and I'd come to refuse bringing Mom to his office to sit far an hour before being seen. She was 87 and deserved courtesy and prompt service, especially after being his patient for so long.
Good luck gettting all of the doctor stuff sorted out!
Happy Saturday! Barbara :)
I had the same situation with Mom's doctor of 30 years. I called at 4:40pm on a Thursday and got the answering machine. I then called the emergency number from the machine message and said I needed to talk to the doctor as it was an emergency. No repsonse. I called the office at 7:30am on Friday morning and talked to a nurse I'd gotten to know and told her it was criminal to have an emergency number with no help available. I was furious. She was sympathetic and the doctor called me an hour later. He said he'd gotten the message when he returned to town at 11pm and he decided it was too late to call. I read him the riot act. He agreed that the system failed me. I said the system and he were both at fault and I fired him. He refused to make "housecalls" at the ALF or NH anyway and I'd come to refuse bringing Mom to his office to sit far an hour before being seen. She was 87 and deserved courtesy and prompt service, especially after being his patient for so long.
Good luck gettting all of the doctor stuff sorted out!
Happy Saturday! Barbara :)
LuvMyLilDoggie
03-04-2006, 11:33 AM
Lorazepam is habit forming. It's in the Xanax and Valium family of drugs. The long term use of it and then tapering off of it can open a whole new can of worms. With AD, it could cause her agressiveness to get much worse when off the drug once her body is dependant on it. That (plus the slew of possible side effects) is probably why this doctor didn't order it daily for her.
I read up on Lorazepam when my dad's doctor rx'd it for him when he was getting violent with me. It calmed him down a LOT. But it made him sleep all the time too. He was taken off it when I noticed a side effect that could affect his heart. He has congestive heart failure already. I called his doctor and he was rx'd another med.
I wonder if maybe cutting the pill in half would be enough to take the edge off just for a few weeks until the other med kicks in.
You're doing a GREAT JOB, Sandy! Yoiu're RELAXING! You sound like a whole different person than you did a few weeks ago.:)
Love, Barb
I read up on Lorazepam when my dad's doctor rx'd it for him when he was getting violent with me. It calmed him down a LOT. But it made him sleep all the time too. He was taken off it when I noticed a side effect that could affect his heart. He has congestive heart failure already. I called his doctor and he was rx'd another med.
I wonder if maybe cutting the pill in half would be enough to take the edge off just for a few weeks until the other med kicks in.
You're doing a GREAT JOB, Sandy! Yoiu're RELAXING! You sound like a whole different person than you did a few weeks ago.:)
Love, Barb
janeslk
03-04-2006, 12:39 PM
My FIL is apparently on lorazepam to stop his violent behavior and it is definitely working. I read that no one should stay on it longer than four months. He is also taking depakote, a bi-polar drug: temazepam, a sleep aid, buspirone, and Zoloft. The doctor does not consult us on his prescribed drugs so I only know what he is taking when I get the pharmacy bills.
The effects of any drugs seem to wear off over time, but I hope they keep him on whatever combination is working. A doctor makes calls at his AD unit so I am glad we don't have to run down a doctor everytime there is a problem.
I can't believe patients are allowed access to an office phone. Surely your mother is not the first patient of this type they have encountered.
Jane
The effects of any drugs seem to wear off over time, but I hope they keep him on whatever combination is working. A doctor makes calls at his AD unit so I am glad we don't have to run down a doctor everytime there is a problem.
I can't believe patients are allowed access to an office phone. Surely your mother is not the first patient of this type they have encountered.
Jane
Sandyspen
03-04-2006, 01:08 PM
Jane, that's sort of my way of thinking. It's hard to believe they haven't had someone in this stage before my mom. Their main phone, the one mom is hijacking, is in G's office. I think just shutting the door would probably dissuade her from entering. Hope they try that. They did say they had unplugged it for awhile and she left because she thought it was broken. No calls today, maybe she still thinks that.
What an awful ordeal, Barbara. I know doctors are busy but emergencies still happen. It seems to me in an office with several doctors, someone should be on-call to accept phone calls.
At one point they put me on-hold for the medical assistant whom they said could order the meds with the doc's approval. I held for 40 minutes and she never picked up.
I do feel tons better, Barb. I'm glad it shows! It's much easier to call doctors and try to manage all their affairs when you aren't tugging with them at the same time. My heart goes out to anyone who is still trying to do that. It's near impossible without losing "yourself."
Martha, I don't know how on earth you did it for so many years.
What an awful ordeal, Barbara. I know doctors are busy but emergencies still happen. It seems to me in an office with several doctors, someone should be on-call to accept phone calls.
At one point they put me on-hold for the medical assistant whom they said could order the meds with the doc's approval. I held for 40 minutes and she never picked up.
I do feel tons better, Barb. I'm glad it shows! It's much easier to call doctors and try to manage all their affairs when you aren't tugging with them at the same time. My heart goes out to anyone who is still trying to do that. It's near impossible without losing "yourself."
Martha, I don't know how on earth you did it for so many years.
angel_bear
03-04-2006, 07:09 PM
Sandy, Look into the laws in your state governing Chemical Restraints ..... it's a BIG thing over here ....... same with my ex-charge .... they FINALLY called in the anti-psychotic Med's (Serenace I think) and the change was INCREDIBLE .. but it was prescribed PRN (as needed) and only in extreme circumstances could they give it to her.
Just because I wanted her to have one in her morning coffee, afternoon tea and night-time supper to keep her calm ALL the time, was irrelevant .. the nursing home is only allowed to give her one if she's at an extreme, or about to be under duress. You might want to check into the rules. You may also need to sign a "Restraint Agreement" as time goes by .. it sounds awful, but it's still there to keep them safe and to keep others safe from them .... especially the violent ones.
Sandy, you sound GREAT. Even though you have a different set of stresses now, you can WALK AWAY, you can choose NOT to answer the phone (get an answering machine) and your suggestions to "G" are good .. I haven't found an Aged Care Facility who HAVEN'T had a locked Nurses Station .. we have swipe cards to gain access to ours, much quicker than a key.
Hang in there Sandy .. everything is still on the improve.
Hugs
Sally
Just because I wanted her to have one in her morning coffee, afternoon tea and night-time supper to keep her calm ALL the time, was irrelevant .. the nursing home is only allowed to give her one if she's at an extreme, or about to be under duress. You might want to check into the rules. You may also need to sign a "Restraint Agreement" as time goes by .. it sounds awful, but it's still there to keep them safe and to keep others safe from them .... especially the violent ones.
Sandy, you sound GREAT. Even though you have a different set of stresses now, you can WALK AWAY, you can choose NOT to answer the phone (get an answering machine) and your suggestions to "G" are good .. I haven't found an Aged Care Facility who HAVEN'T had a locked Nurses Station .. we have swipe cards to gain access to ours, much quicker than a key.
Hang in there Sandy .. everything is still on the improve.
Hugs
Sally
BarbaraH
03-07-2006, 10:37 PM
Hi Sandy,
How goes it? I've been wondering how your mother is doing and if anything has helped her restlessness. Hope so!
Hugs to you! Barbara :)
How goes it? I've been wondering how your mother is doing and if anything has helped her restlessness. Hope so!
Hugs to you! Barbara :)
Sandyspen
03-08-2006, 08:16 AM
Hi Barbara,
I hadn't seen Mom since Friday. My brother and his girlfriend visited on Saturday, then again on Monday, so I didn't go back until yesterday.
I was still getting the same furious calls, so didn't expect much difference. When I arrived, it was the same; crying, wanting to go home, didn't think anything was wrong with her.
I brought a doll from her collection, a photo album of old family pictures. And it just seemed a tad different after all the crying subsided. She didn't get aggressive and by the time I left, she was saying; "Well, I'm really fortunate to have such a nice place." I left feeling a little peaceful instead of horrid and guilty, while she went off, smiling, with an aide to visit the gardens. No tears or wailing.
This is the beginning of her second week on Buspar. G told me that two of the other ladies are on the same dose and they're doing fine. They've been on the meds a lot longer than mom, though.
I finally feel hopeful that this med will work. I can handle a short crying spell as long as that awful aggression is gone.
My brother is going to take her shopping on Saturday and she seems excited. I've tried to tell them about my experiences with that, but........you know how that goes. They've only seen the sweet little girl and believe every word mom says. (I never visit her, the employees are stealing from her, etc.)
They'll have to learn about those things on their own. I can't control what they believe. I'm just glad to have someone else visiting and helping with her morale right now.
I hadn't seen Mom since Friday. My brother and his girlfriend visited on Saturday, then again on Monday, so I didn't go back until yesterday.
I was still getting the same furious calls, so didn't expect much difference. When I arrived, it was the same; crying, wanting to go home, didn't think anything was wrong with her.
I brought a doll from her collection, a photo album of old family pictures. And it just seemed a tad different after all the crying subsided. She didn't get aggressive and by the time I left, she was saying; "Well, I'm really fortunate to have such a nice place." I left feeling a little peaceful instead of horrid and guilty, while she went off, smiling, with an aide to visit the gardens. No tears or wailing.
This is the beginning of her second week on Buspar. G told me that two of the other ladies are on the same dose and they're doing fine. They've been on the meds a lot longer than mom, though.
I finally feel hopeful that this med will work. I can handle a short crying spell as long as that awful aggression is gone.
My brother is going to take her shopping on Saturday and she seems excited. I've tried to tell them about my experiences with that, but........you know how that goes. They've only seen the sweet little girl and believe every word mom says. (I never visit her, the employees are stealing from her, etc.)
They'll have to learn about those things on their own. I can't control what they believe. I'm just glad to have someone else visiting and helping with her morale right now.
Sandyspen
03-08-2006, 08:25 AM
Oh.....one more thing.
I kept intending to take an appointment book down there so that visitors could sign and we'd know when others visit.
The AFH has a large calender in every room that doesn't look like a standard calendar but lists the days..then to the right, a space for appts, etc. No square boxes.
Brother and girlfriend had signed-in each day that they visited. Great idea! I signed yesterday.
Mom had no recollection of them being there, so I showed her where they'd signed in, told her that when she felt she had had no visitors.......just check the names. I doubt she will remember, but I'm going to remind her every time I do there.
Her number one complaint is that she feels alone because no one comes to see her.
I kept intending to take an appointment book down there so that visitors could sign and we'd know when others visit.
The AFH has a large calender in every room that doesn't look like a standard calendar but lists the days..then to the right, a space for appts, etc. No square boxes.
Brother and girlfriend had signed-in each day that they visited. Great idea! I signed yesterday.
Mom had no recollection of them being there, so I showed her where they'd signed in, told her that when she felt she had had no visitors.......just check the names. I doubt she will remember, but I'm going to remind her every time I do there.
Her number one complaint is that she feels alone because no one comes to see her.
Martha H
03-08-2006, 11:32 AM
My Mom thinks no one ever visits her. There is no way she would remember to check a list, or believe you if you told her there are many names on it. It's all a part of her disease. No one ever comes, and no one ever calls. All you can say is, "well, I'm here now! "
The reasoning, the explanations - that's what drove me nuts for a couple of years. I couldn't get it through my thick head that it was completely counterproductive to say," Look, here it is in writing. Now do you believe me?" Two minutes later, all of it forgotten. Wasted energy. Unless the NH needs that list for their own purposes, I don't see any use to it.
Be glad she is gradually adjusting, and don't expect anything. That way, you will not constantly be disappointed. I hope the shopping trtp goes well. If not, they will learn .. they might need a lesson!
love,
Martha
The reasoning, the explanations - that's what drove me nuts for a couple of years. I couldn't get it through my thick head that it was completely counterproductive to say," Look, here it is in writing. Now do you believe me?" Two minutes later, all of it forgotten. Wasted energy. Unless the NH needs that list for their own purposes, I don't see any use to it.
Be glad she is gradually adjusting, and don't expect anything. That way, you will not constantly be disappointed. I hope the shopping trtp goes well. If not, they will learn .. they might need a lesson!
love,
Martha
Sandyspen
03-08-2006, 11:57 AM
Hi Martha,
Yep, I have finally given up on making her "see the light." It only frustrates me when mom says I'm trying to make her think she's crazy by telling her all these lies that aren't true. And I get hurt feelings, so It's much better to let her believe what she wants to believe.
Selfishly, I think I was happy about the calendar for myself. Now, I have place to show that I've been there! Bro and girlfriend are really believing everything mom says right now.
I agree, they may need the lesson of taking her shopping. It will be NO ordinary shopping trip, for sure!
Yep, I have finally given up on making her "see the light." It only frustrates me when mom says I'm trying to make her think she's crazy by telling her all these lies that aren't true. And I get hurt feelings, so It's much better to let her believe what she wants to believe.
Selfishly, I think I was happy about the calendar for myself. Now, I have place to show that I've been there! Bro and girlfriend are really believing everything mom says right now.
I agree, they may need the lesson of taking her shopping. It will be NO ordinary shopping trip, for sure!
LuvMyLilDoggie
03-08-2006, 12:44 PM
Maybe the Buspar will kick in before the shopping trip. ;)
I think signing the calendar is a good idea. There may be moments when your mom has some clarity about her and even if it's just once in a while, it may make her feel good. That plus your brother will SEE that you've been there so there'll be no accusations of you not visiting.
Love, Barb
I think signing the calendar is a good idea. There may be moments when your mom has some clarity about her and even if it's just once in a while, it may make her feel good. That plus your brother will SEE that you've been there so there'll be no accusations of you not visiting.
Love, Barb
ToBeFreeToRoam
03-08-2006, 03:03 PM
Hi Sandyspen,
I too think that the sign-in calendar/paper is a very good idea. I wish there was some way we could use it at my parents house. But, if I put one up, my mom would tear it down! My sister and I bought them a big (medium) calendar, to better write their appts. and such on. We paid $10. Well, she would not let us put it in their breakfast room, where the importanat one is. We had to put it in the study. But, at least it is where I can write on it, when they forget something and they can look at it if they will...
I am wondering. Have any of you caregivers used a list/chart in the bathroom. Like: Brush teeth _______ Comb Hair __________ Deodorant ________ Take Pills am _________ Take pills pm __________ and so on. ???
I do not know if my dad would use it, or could, or be insulted by it, or some combination of those.
Sandyspen, it does sound like you and your mom are doing better. Less stress for you and the meds, calming her a bit.
Good Luck to both of you.
Take Care.
Love, Wannabe
I too think that the sign-in calendar/paper is a very good idea. I wish there was some way we could use it at my parents house. But, if I put one up, my mom would tear it down! My sister and I bought them a big (medium) calendar, to better write their appts. and such on. We paid $10. Well, she would not let us put it in their breakfast room, where the importanat one is. We had to put it in the study. But, at least it is where I can write on it, when they forget something and they can look at it if they will...
I am wondering. Have any of you caregivers used a list/chart in the bathroom. Like: Brush teeth _______ Comb Hair __________ Deodorant ________ Take Pills am _________ Take pills pm __________ and so on. ???
I do not know if my dad would use it, or could, or be insulted by it, or some combination of those.
Sandyspen, it does sound like you and your mom are doing better. Less stress for you and the meds, calming her a bit.
Good Luck to both of you.
Take Care.
Love, Wannabe
Sandyspen
03-08-2006, 03:31 PM
Hi Wannabe,
Yep, mom doesn't remember to look at the calendar but it does help me. I know when someone else has been there and they know when I've been there. Mom says no one comes to visit at all.
You know, when mom was still at home, I did try the list thing.
I put her pills in the tray: mon - tues - wed - etc. And made a list for the table. Take Pills - Eat Breakfast - Etc. She remembered to stack her mail on the table and leave it for me, because she never knew what to keep or throw away. So I left the list right beside the mail.
It never worked for her though. I'd call and ask if she'd done her list, she'd say: "What list?" I'd remind her, and she'd say: "I don't know. I think I did it. I must have done my list."
The last few weeks, I'd arrive on my weekly visit and all the pills were still neatly in her tray for the entire week. She would argue up and down that she had taken them every day and someone else must have put them back in the tray.
It's really odd, because some things she never forgets...at least not yet. She brushes her teeth every morning. Wets her hair and brushes it. And applies lipstick.
But......she won't take a shower if you threaten her life! And this, too, use to be part of her morning routine. Very hard to understand or make sense of it.
It might depend too, on how far along your dad is.
Yep, mom doesn't remember to look at the calendar but it does help me. I know when someone else has been there and they know when I've been there. Mom says no one comes to visit at all.
You know, when mom was still at home, I did try the list thing.
I put her pills in the tray: mon - tues - wed - etc. And made a list for the table. Take Pills - Eat Breakfast - Etc. She remembered to stack her mail on the table and leave it for me, because she never knew what to keep or throw away. So I left the list right beside the mail.
It never worked for her though. I'd call and ask if she'd done her list, she'd say: "What list?" I'd remind her, and she'd say: "I don't know. I think I did it. I must have done my list."
The last few weeks, I'd arrive on my weekly visit and all the pills were still neatly in her tray for the entire week. She would argue up and down that she had taken them every day and someone else must have put them back in the tray.
It's really odd, because some things she never forgets...at least not yet. She brushes her teeth every morning. Wets her hair and brushes it. And applies lipstick.
But......she won't take a shower if you threaten her life! And this, too, use to be part of her morning routine. Very hard to understand or make sense of it.
It might depend too, on how far along your dad is.
Martha H
03-08-2006, 03:54 PM
I don't know why bathing becomes such an issue with AD victims, but it does. Mom always said she had just bathed. If she felt dirty, she washed her hair. Once 10 x in a single afternoon.
I wonder if the fear of climbing into the bathub had something to do with it, but even when I offered to help her, she said no, I just took a bath a little while ago.
Some small children have a fear of the bath for awhile .. until they get used to it. But an adult who was super clean all her life? She would have been so embarrassed if she had known what she was doing.
I did hear that AD patients have a fear of falling into holes. So putting a navy blue or black bath mat in front of the tub or shower is a bad idea ... but an excellent idea in front of the house door if you don't want them to go out.
They see the dark spot as a hole.
I never tried the mat trick, but Mom's problem was much worsened by her macular degeneration and partial blindness.
She had already lost her sense of color or coordinating her wardrobe a few years before. I remember being really embarassed when she went to the funeral of a relative (a couple of years ago, before we had any clue she had AD) wearing bright green pants and a purple jacket and an aqua winter hat.
People all shrugged it off, saying, she's so old, it doesn't matter. I had gone directly from work and was unable to help her get dressed. Around that time she also began wearing egg or mustard stained blouses, and started having the smelly pants problem (forgetting to wipe.) Down hill, all the time ... so sad, so hard. It is such a relief for all of us to have her in a NH. She gets taken to the shower and washed, no protests accepted.
It's so much harder when you are the daughter!
Love,
Martha
I wonder if the fear of climbing into the bathub had something to do with it, but even when I offered to help her, she said no, I just took a bath a little while ago.
Some small children have a fear of the bath for awhile .. until they get used to it. But an adult who was super clean all her life? She would have been so embarrassed if she had known what she was doing.
I did hear that AD patients have a fear of falling into holes. So putting a navy blue or black bath mat in front of the tub or shower is a bad idea ... but an excellent idea in front of the house door if you don't want them to go out.
They see the dark spot as a hole.
I never tried the mat trick, but Mom's problem was much worsened by her macular degeneration and partial blindness.
She had already lost her sense of color or coordinating her wardrobe a few years before. I remember being really embarassed when she went to the funeral of a relative (a couple of years ago, before we had any clue she had AD) wearing bright green pants and a purple jacket and an aqua winter hat.
People all shrugged it off, saying, she's so old, it doesn't matter. I had gone directly from work and was unable to help her get dressed. Around that time she also began wearing egg or mustard stained blouses, and started having the smelly pants problem (forgetting to wipe.) Down hill, all the time ... so sad, so hard. It is such a relief for all of us to have her in a NH. She gets taken to the shower and washed, no protests accepted.
It's so much harder when you are the daughter!
Love,
Martha
ToBeFreeToRoam
03-08-2006, 04:31 PM
Hi Everyone,
I know this is sort of off the thread, but... Have any of you ever had a bath fitted with bars (the handicapped kind - for support) to help the ad person get in and out of the bath/shower? If my mom insists on them staying in their home for a while longer, the health care/aid worker would like that already installed - I would think... What do you guys think and are there other things that would not cost an arm and a leg, to fix or add to their home to help my mom, dad, me and sister and a paid helper????
Thanks, sorry Sandyspen.
Love, Wannabe
I know this is sort of off the thread, but... Have any of you ever had a bath fitted with bars (the handicapped kind - for support) to help the ad person get in and out of the bath/shower? If my mom insists on them staying in their home for a while longer, the health care/aid worker would like that already installed - I would think... What do you guys think and are there other things that would not cost an arm and a leg, to fix or add to their home to help my mom, dad, me and sister and a paid helper????
Thanks, sorry Sandyspen.
Love, Wannabe
Sandyspen
03-08-2006, 05:53 PM
Martha,
Me too, I've tried and tried to figure out the shower thing.
At mom's home, she had a walk-in shower with no step up (no tub.) So I thought she was uneasy, stepping over the side of the tub to shower at my house. I would offer to help her, and set her walker there for support, too. But she wouldn't do it.
At one point, after the aggression started, I'd convinced her to take a shower and she yelled out after only a few minutes! When I went in there, she was cussing the knobs to turn the water on. Just regular round knobs, one for hot and one for cold. She said she couldn't adjust them to a good temperature and with some angry expletives...told me to do it because they were just stupid!
I sort of thought she was having trouble getting the temp just right. Now that I think about it though, the water wasn't even running. After that, I'd have the water already running before I began the drawn-out, angry scene of mom taking a shower. I've always wondered, though, about "turning the knobs, or adjusting 2 things at once")
Wannabe, at the AFH, they have the neatest showers! A low step-in, and a bench seat from wall to wall (at chair level). You take one step in, turn around and sit down. Really easy to use and safe. Wish mom would try it out...........
Me too, I've tried and tried to figure out the shower thing.
At mom's home, she had a walk-in shower with no step up (no tub.) So I thought she was uneasy, stepping over the side of the tub to shower at my house. I would offer to help her, and set her walker there for support, too. But she wouldn't do it.
At one point, after the aggression started, I'd convinced her to take a shower and she yelled out after only a few minutes! When I went in there, she was cussing the knobs to turn the water on. Just regular round knobs, one for hot and one for cold. She said she couldn't adjust them to a good temperature and with some angry expletives...told me to do it because they were just stupid!
I sort of thought she was having trouble getting the temp just right. Now that I think about it though, the water wasn't even running. After that, I'd have the water already running before I began the drawn-out, angry scene of mom taking a shower. I've always wondered, though, about "turning the knobs, or adjusting 2 things at once")
Wannabe, at the AFH, they have the neatest showers! A low step-in, and a bench seat from wall to wall (at chair level). You take one step in, turn around and sit down. Really easy to use and safe. Wish mom would try it out...........
LuvMyLilDoggie
03-08-2006, 07:44 PM
Hmmmm, this is all VERY interesting! Some points have been brought up that I hadn't thought of before.
Martha, I had heard about the fear of holes. Do you think that maybe AD patients feel like they're stepping into a hole when getting in the bathtub? I know my dad has a problem with depth perception since getting AD. Maybe he's afraid he'll fall?
Sandy, I know what you mean about the memory! My grandma (who had AD) forgot all of us, all of her children and grandchildren. But whenever we pointed to her daughter's husband and asked her who he was, she'd ALWAYS say "Oh that's Lonnie!" And my dad remembers certain things we say word for word but mix up who actually said it. Anything to do with hygiene he doesn't do anymore without prodding. He even sleeps with his dentures in his mouth!
My MIL has the COOLEST bathtub! Actually it's a shower but it's the same size as a large bathtub. She has shower doors that slide from side to side. All the guide rails are built in and there is plenty of room for her shower chair. It costed her an arm and a leg but she couldn't lift her legs over the side of the bathtub anymore. She's 76 years old, 5' 6" tall and over 400 lbs She had to buy a new shower because there's no way anyone could lift her into the bathtub.
Wannabe, I'm still thinking on your question. I'll get back with you if I think of something. Just thought of something. :D We bought a handicap toilet for dad. It sits higher than a normal toilet. But you can get an extension that raises the sitting position of a regular toilet. The only thing about extensions is they can come loose and create a situation where an older person might fall but if you check the screws often, it should be ok. My husband has a bath seat that extends out to the outer part of the bathtub. We got this for him when he had his first hip replacement surgery. I had to help him in and out of the bath. He would sit on the outer part and scoot in. The only bad thing about that is you can't use it with a shower door or you'll soak everything more than the person using it! But I'll tell ya, it made things a whole heck of a lot easier for me. So much so that we took our shower doors off before his last hip replacement and put up a shower curtain with a rod that had rubber on each end and you turn the middle part of the rod to tighten it against the walls. No screws needed.
If I come up with any more ideas, I'll let you know. ;)
Love, Barb
Martha, I had heard about the fear of holes. Do you think that maybe AD patients feel like they're stepping into a hole when getting in the bathtub? I know my dad has a problem with depth perception since getting AD. Maybe he's afraid he'll fall?
Sandy, I know what you mean about the memory! My grandma (who had AD) forgot all of us, all of her children and grandchildren. But whenever we pointed to her daughter's husband and asked her who he was, she'd ALWAYS say "Oh that's Lonnie!" And my dad remembers certain things we say word for word but mix up who actually said it. Anything to do with hygiene he doesn't do anymore without prodding. He even sleeps with his dentures in his mouth!
My MIL has the COOLEST bathtub! Actually it's a shower but it's the same size as a large bathtub. She has shower doors that slide from side to side. All the guide rails are built in and there is plenty of room for her shower chair. It costed her an arm and a leg but she couldn't lift her legs over the side of the bathtub anymore. She's 76 years old, 5' 6" tall and over 400 lbs She had to buy a new shower because there's no way anyone could lift her into the bathtub.
Wannabe, I'm still thinking on your question. I'll get back with you if I think of something. Just thought of something. :D We bought a handicap toilet for dad. It sits higher than a normal toilet. But you can get an extension that raises the sitting position of a regular toilet. The only thing about extensions is they can come loose and create a situation where an older person might fall but if you check the screws often, it should be ok. My husband has a bath seat that extends out to the outer part of the bathtub. We got this for him when he had his first hip replacement surgery. I had to help him in and out of the bath. He would sit on the outer part and scoot in. The only bad thing about that is you can't use it with a shower door or you'll soak everything more than the person using it! But I'll tell ya, it made things a whole heck of a lot easier for me. So much so that we took our shower doors off before his last hip replacement and put up a shower curtain with a rod that had rubber on each end and you turn the middle part of the rod to tighten it against the walls. No screws needed.
If I come up with any more ideas, I'll let you know. ;)
Love, Barb
Martha H
03-08-2006, 09:17 PM
I just thought about how little kids sometimes develop a fear of going down the bathtub drain when the plug is out. I do think in many ways AD patients get like small children.
I do know the NHs have better showering and bathing possibilities than we do in our normal homes.
My sister in law's Mom in her advanced Alzheimer's towards the end, ignored the bathroom altogether and went to the garage and peed and pooed in the middle of the garage floor. Shortly after that they had to place her in a facility - that was too much. This happened with the garage door up in full view of the astonished neighborhood.
She was at a very nice NH in Florida, with a lovely enclosed flowery yard, walkways, etc. But she always stayed indoors. No desire to enjoy the flowers. She soon forgot how to swallow and how to eat, expirated food into her lungs and died.
This is a fatal disease ... but often it takes years and years before it gets really bad.
M
I do know the NHs have better showering and bathing possibilities than we do in our normal homes.
My sister in law's Mom in her advanced Alzheimer's towards the end, ignored the bathroom altogether and went to the garage and peed and pooed in the middle of the garage floor. Shortly after that they had to place her in a facility - that was too much. This happened with the garage door up in full view of the astonished neighborhood.
She was at a very nice NH in Florida, with a lovely enclosed flowery yard, walkways, etc. But she always stayed indoors. No desire to enjoy the flowers. She soon forgot how to swallow and how to eat, expirated food into her lungs and died.
This is a fatal disease ... but often it takes years and years before it gets really bad.
M
ToBeFreeToRoam
03-09-2006, 12:08 AM
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the replies and the ongoing talk about everything!!! :> My dad does not mind taking a shower, most of the time. Sometimes, he is just too tired or sleepy to have one.
My dad cannot scoot up or back or sideways. It is probably his parkinsons? Like in bed or at the dr. ofc. You can say - scoot up 6 more inches, or when he gets in the car. He has trouble scooting over in the seat! So, he could not do anything but walk up to the bath tub or walk into the very small shower in the very small 2nd bathroom!
Sandyspen, that shower at the care center sound really neat. I wish that my dad had one of those! And the knobs on the shower. I had never really thought about that. I guess that either my dad has a bath/shower by himself or my mom helps him. I do not know, only that I do not help with that part!
Thanks again. I guess that I need to go to a medical supply type store and look for the bars that go on the walls and the tub. And of course whatever else they might have that would help.
Take care.
Love, Wannabe
Thanks for the replies and the ongoing talk about everything!!! :> My dad does not mind taking a shower, most of the time. Sometimes, he is just too tired or sleepy to have one.
My dad cannot scoot up or back or sideways. It is probably his parkinsons? Like in bed or at the dr. ofc. You can say - scoot up 6 more inches, or when he gets in the car. He has trouble scooting over in the seat! So, he could not do anything but walk up to the bath tub or walk into the very small shower in the very small 2nd bathroom!
Sandyspen, that shower at the care center sound really neat. I wish that my dad had one of those! And the knobs on the shower. I had never really thought about that. I guess that either my dad has a bath/shower by himself or my mom helps him. I do not know, only that I do not help with that part!
Thanks again. I guess that I need to go to a medical supply type store and look for the bars that go on the walls and the tub. And of course whatever else they might have that would help.
Take care.
Love, Wannabe