MomOf4VA
03-07-2006, 10:16 PM
I am a chronic pain patient. I was on suboxone for awhile for maintenance, but it did nothing for my pain. So I went back on the morphine, fentanyl, and then back on the oxy, which i detest. I was put on Subutex today for long term pain med. Anyone have experience with this? Because I am feeling really weird. And not in a good way. It's effecting me TOTALLY different than the suboxone did. Can someone please answer me? Anything you know or have heard about the Subutex would be GREATLY appreciated~
~Kim
~Kim
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Shoreline
03-08-2006, 02:56 AM
Hi Kim, The only thin I can think of is that you may not have been as physically dependent on opiates when your tried the Suboxone last time. Although Suboxone contains narcan to prevent abuse, Burprenorphin can also induce withdrawal as it's a mixed opiate agonist/antagonist on it's own. If you hadn't reached the point of physical dependence when you used suboxone it wouldn't cause the initial withdrawal symptoms, However after months of trying various pure opiates you would certainly have some level of physical dependece and any mixed opiate agonsit/antagonist could induce withdrawal and make you feel bad the first few days.
Another thought is to look at the dose, If your using more Bup than you did previously it might be to much or not enough although the mixed opiates d have a ceiling of effectiveness due t the antagonist. More than likely it's some form of withdrawal you were fortunate to avoid the first go round. What had you been taking prior to using the Suboxone?
It was initially developed for opiate dependence, the subutex has the least antogonistic qualities and is used as a starter drug, once the patient is stable they switch to Suboxone which would negate the effects of most other opiates due to it's potent antogonistic action "blocking and purging opiate receptors.
I understand it's used for pain and there are several meds that are mixed opiates used to treat pain, but by virtue of the antagonist action, you would never reach the same level of opiate as you did with any of the pure opiates you mentioned. Most of the literature says you will adjust to the subutex in a few days, so if you can ride it out you may get better results in 3-5 days once the initial withdrawal subsides and then is controlled by the action of Bup.
This is the basic technical difference betwen the two.
Subutex contains only buprenorphine hydrochloride. This formulation was developed as the initial product. Suboxone contains an additional ingredient called naloxone to guard against misuse.
The naloxone acts as a form of antibuse for opiates making it a waste of time and money to even try to get high with opiates with naloxine in your system.
Just like any new med, there is a titration process and adjustement phase. When changing meds simply from one class of opiates to another, it can be a tough adjustment, switching from a pure opiate to a mixed antagonist is an even biggger change that will take time to get used too.
Good luck, Dave
Another thought is to look at the dose, If your using more Bup than you did previously it might be to much or not enough although the mixed opiates d have a ceiling of effectiveness due t the antagonist. More than likely it's some form of withdrawal you were fortunate to avoid the first go round. What had you been taking prior to using the Suboxone?
It was initially developed for opiate dependence, the subutex has the least antogonistic qualities and is used as a starter drug, once the patient is stable they switch to Suboxone which would negate the effects of most other opiates due to it's potent antogonistic action "blocking and purging opiate receptors.
I understand it's used for pain and there are several meds that are mixed opiates used to treat pain, but by virtue of the antagonist action, you would never reach the same level of opiate as you did with any of the pure opiates you mentioned. Most of the literature says you will adjust to the subutex in a few days, so if you can ride it out you may get better results in 3-5 days once the initial withdrawal subsides and then is controlled by the action of Bup.
This is the basic technical difference betwen the two.
Subutex contains only buprenorphine hydrochloride. This formulation was developed as the initial product. Suboxone contains an additional ingredient called naloxone to guard against misuse.
The naloxone acts as a form of antibuse for opiates making it a waste of time and money to even try to get high with opiates with naloxine in your system.
Just like any new med, there is a titration process and adjustement phase. When changing meds simply from one class of opiates to another, it can be a tough adjustment, switching from a pure opiate to a mixed antagonist is an even biggger change that will take time to get used too.
Good luck, Dave
slipperyslope
03-08-2006, 09:37 AM
You may want to go back over to the addiction board to post this. since there are a lot of people that have experience with this medication over there.
Blasterboy
03-10-2006, 06:27 AM
Subutex is becoming very popular to treat cronic pain in the UK and I went on it on my way up from Codeine phosphate. It helped for a few months until I build a tolerance to it. Then I was put on LA OXY; BTW I don't think this is nessaserily a post for the addiction board as Suboxone is the one with the abuse limiting chemical in it that is used to "cul" addicts use.
I would think that Shorelines idea is most likely the reason, because you used it moving down from more potent drugs, that's why you have had the adverse effects, as opposed to me moving up from weaker drugs like myself etc.
I would think that Shorelines idea is most likely the reason, because you used it moving down from more potent drugs, that's why you have had the adverse effects, as opposed to me moving up from weaker drugs like myself etc.