enie
03-12-2006, 08:56 PM
I have a 27 year old son who quite often has several Migraines a week; as did my Grandfather, my Father, and I (off and on our whole life). Of course my Son thinks he is the only one in the family that has ever hurt this bad.
His Neurologist is giving him: 300mg elivil nightly; plus 2 Imitrex Injections per migraine per 24 hour period (he quite often takes 6 injections a week); plus Oxycodone as needed when the Imitrex does not work (but take it easy on the Oxycodone).
I feel that in the long run (almost two years now) that amount of powerful drugs must be doing damage. My son says he has to take that much because of his size he is 6’5"/260lbs.
My question is; has anyone heard of taking this much?
enie
His Neurologist is giving him: 300mg elivil nightly; plus 2 Imitrex Injections per migraine per 24 hour period (he quite often takes 6 injections a week); plus Oxycodone as needed when the Imitrex does not work (but take it easy on the Oxycodone).
I feel that in the long run (almost two years now) that amount of powerful drugs must be doing damage. My son says he has to take that much because of his size he is 6’5"/260lbs.
My question is; has anyone heard of taking this much?
enie
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ARANGER
03-12-2006, 10:31 PM
Enie,
I'm not sure about the Imitrex, but I can tell you that many of us on this board take pain meds that may seem to be alot. One thing I have learned over the years is to forget about the Mg's a person is taking. It really comes down to what works for that person.
I know people that take 500 mg of Morphine daily just to get relief. To some people that may be a lot, but to others its what works. You mentioned he takes Oxycodone on a limited basis. At of all the meds you mentioned, Oxycodone is the the only Narcotic med. I can tell you that on a limited basis is probably ok, if that is what is working for him.
It may be that he is not getting the right relief. Has he tried something like Topamax? It is suppose to reduce the frequency of the migraines and the intensity. You mentioned he is taking 300 mg of Elavil at night. Again to some people, that may be alot. But if that is what it takes to work for him....
I guess is what I am saying is, don't get too caught up on the Mg's. I'm sure many of us could blow you away with what we take monthly/daily. Maybe he should get a second opinion to see if there are other meds or other treatments that may work better for them. There are certain meds that you should not exceed like Tylenol. But pure opiates do not have a ceiling.
Anyway, thats my opinion. Hope he feels better, Take care
I'm not sure about the Imitrex, but I can tell you that many of us on this board take pain meds that may seem to be alot. One thing I have learned over the years is to forget about the Mg's a person is taking. It really comes down to what works for that person.
I know people that take 500 mg of Morphine daily just to get relief. To some people that may be a lot, but to others its what works. You mentioned he takes Oxycodone on a limited basis. At of all the meds you mentioned, Oxycodone is the the only Narcotic med. I can tell you that on a limited basis is probably ok, if that is what is working for him.
It may be that he is not getting the right relief. Has he tried something like Topamax? It is suppose to reduce the frequency of the migraines and the intensity. You mentioned he is taking 300 mg of Elavil at night. Again to some people, that may be alot. But if that is what it takes to work for him....
I guess is what I am saying is, don't get too caught up on the Mg's. I'm sure many of us could blow you away with what we take monthly/daily. Maybe he should get a second opinion to see if there are other meds or other treatments that may work better for them. There are certain meds that you should not exceed like Tylenol. But pure opiates do not have a ceiling.
Anyway, thats my opinion. Hope he feels better, Take care
enie
03-12-2006, 11:56 PM
Thank you for replying Aranger,
I asked because I have read so much on the med/web pages that say what the limit is on elivil, plus the fact that he complains about symptoms that sound like some neuropathy. I read that this was a side effect if you take too much Imitrex. He says he’s fine, but complains all the time. And if I am not allowed to voice my concerns to his Doc anymore because of privacy laws, then how do I help him.
Believe you me; I know what it is like to take too much because you want relief from chronic pain…. It took me many years to “Learn to deal with it”, as my Doctors used to tell me, (I hate that saying).
Right now I am on the max amount of 5 heart meds, plus, Celebrex and T#3 for almost constant Neuralgia and Migraines. Plus I wish I could take something more for my Migraines, but because of my heart, I can not breathe well if I take more than 1/2 a Relpax (which doesn't help much). I know what pain is, and I know what it feels like to want just a little relief even for just a few moments.
I’m sorry if I sound like a worrywart but I’m just a mom that is worried that these meds are too much and might harm my son.
enie
I asked because I have read so much on the med/web pages that say what the limit is on elivil, plus the fact that he complains about symptoms that sound like some neuropathy. I read that this was a side effect if you take too much Imitrex. He says he’s fine, but complains all the time. And if I am not allowed to voice my concerns to his Doc anymore because of privacy laws, then how do I help him.
Believe you me; I know what it is like to take too much because you want relief from chronic pain…. It took me many years to “Learn to deal with it”, as my Doctors used to tell me, (I hate that saying).
Right now I am on the max amount of 5 heart meds, plus, Celebrex and T#3 for almost constant Neuralgia and Migraines. Plus I wish I could take something more for my Migraines, but because of my heart, I can not breathe well if I take more than 1/2 a Relpax (which doesn't help much). I know what pain is, and I know what it feels like to want just a little relief even for just a few moments.
I’m sorry if I sound like a worrywart but I’m just a mom that is worried that these meds are too much and might harm my son.
enie
ARANGER
03-13-2006, 12:29 AM
Hey Enie, I understand your concerns. Like I mentioned before some meds do have limits. I'm not sure about Imitrex on the limits. I know for me that 300 mgs of Elavil would knock me out for a couple days. However, I take Percocet and OxyContin and can tolerate a high dose of that. Everyone is different.
Many times you can look the drug up and check the prescribing info and it may tell you what the maximium dose. For instance, anything with Tylenol in it (Percocet, Vicodin) has a daily limit of no more than 4000 mg of Tylenol. So this would be eight 5/500 Vicodin tablets.
I'm not sure about Elavil, but I have heard of people taking pretty big doses. Elavil is a tri-cyclic antidepressant. Many people use it to sleep due to its sedation properties.
Anyway, I hope everything works out well for your son. Take Care
Many times you can look the drug up and check the prescribing info and it may tell you what the maximium dose. For instance, anything with Tylenol in it (Percocet, Vicodin) has a daily limit of no more than 4000 mg of Tylenol. So this would be eight 5/500 Vicodin tablets.
I'm not sure about Elavil, but I have heard of people taking pretty big doses. Elavil is a tri-cyclic antidepressant. Many people use it to sleep due to its sedation properties.
Anyway, I hope everything works out well for your son. Take Care
theweaver2
03-14-2006, 09:18 PM
I have traveled the ROAD on migraines..... One thing your son should consider is rebound migraines. If he is using imitrex that much there should be some concern if that is actually causing the migraine. Have you considered rebound? It is something you should research and consider.
I used about every abortive there is and find Amerge works for me but my neuro only allows me 3 per week. To reduce my daily migraines I finally resorted to botox injections. It took 6 months and 3 series of injections but I finally got some relief.
I find that pain meds dont work to knock out the true cause of the migraine. I assume your son has been working with a neurologist. With that kind of frequency he needs a specialist that works a lot with migraine patients.
Good luck to you. I know how migraines can rule your life... It also runs in my family. My grandmother, mother and I - my daughter has had a few but oddly she has had visual migraines which I never had. It's very hereditary and hopefully by your son's next generation more will be available to treat this condition.
I used about every abortive there is and find Amerge works for me but my neuro only allows me 3 per week. To reduce my daily migraines I finally resorted to botox injections. It took 6 months and 3 series of injections but I finally got some relief.
I find that pain meds dont work to knock out the true cause of the migraine. I assume your son has been working with a neurologist. With that kind of frequency he needs a specialist that works a lot with migraine patients.
Good luck to you. I know how migraines can rule your life... It also runs in my family. My grandmother, mother and I - my daughter has had a few but oddly she has had visual migraines which I never had. It's very hereditary and hopefully by your son's next generation more will be available to treat this condition.
theweaver2
03-14-2006, 09:20 PM
just posting again so I can get your response by e-mail (which I forgot to check) :D
Blasterboy
03-15-2006, 06:00 AM
he should try Topamax (topiramate), it's an anti seizure med that has worked wonders on migranes for some people.
enie
03-15-2006, 06:38 AM
theweaver2,
Yes he has a Neurologist, but not one that is willing to reevaluate or investigate. At the Medical teaching Hospital were he goes, the Residents that get advanced the quickest are the ones that don’t 'rock the boat'.
Yeah, I've tried to tell him about rebound. He says he can tell the difference.
I know it took me quit awhile befor I could separate the two because for me a rebound was just a continuance of the migraine. It was a lot worse than just an ordinary stress headache, (but mine were not from Imitrex).
He tried morphine and topamax for about a year but didn’t like the side effects and the morphine didn’t do anything but kill the pain and drain his energy.
I'm puzzled as to how to help him. Besides worrying about neuropathy from too much Imitrex, I also worry that his blood pressure will drop too low on the days when he uses the max on his meds and we can't wake him. We also worry because when he does wake up he still gets behind the wheel. Yeah, he's a big boy 6'5", but when he is already on the 300mg nightly of elivil, plus, when his migraines hit he takes two Imitrex injections, and then, the oxy if the Imitrex doesn't work. After that, he becomes incoherent and then he’s out cold and he is still incoherent for awhile when he awakes.
I didn’t want him to go through what I had to go through. And I don’t want him to place himself in danger just to find pain relief. He’s still going through the stage where he thinks the pain is supposed to be gone completely. To me, that is dangerous.
Any hints? We don’t have any way to legally talk to his Doctor without my Son blowing his stack (It’s a big stack and neither his Dad nor I can take the volume or stress). We don’t want to ask the Doctor anything. We just feel that she needs to know that her treatment is not working and that he frequently over does it. We are the ones that live with him and threrefor we are the ones that would know. Plus, she needs to know he still gets drunk on weekends while on the meds. The one time I did speak to her, it was because my Son was drinking heavy and staying sick for a couple of days afterwards. This was while he's on meds that were labeled ‘do not drink’. The Doctor said that she was going to tell my Son anything I told her; plus she told me that my Son was the one that needed to tell her that he was drinking while on those meds, not his Mom; plus if I wanted to tell her anything that I needed to put it in writing and give it to my Son and he could give it to her. And that was all befor the privacy laws started. How do we help? I understand that he needs to be responsible for his own actions, but I still feel that his Doctor should know if there is a problem that relates to her treatment for him. If he had a wife, she would be able to give the Doctor information, then why not his Mom and Dad?
He’s stuck here at home with us because he can’t hold down a regular full time job because of too many migraines. His Dad and I only want help him to become independent again.
I feel that my Son’s Doctor could do more to figure out something that does help him get back on his feet.
He has a lot more medical treatment opportunities than I had, back when I was having migraines almost constantly. Back in the 80s, Doctors didn’t really believe in giving out pain relievers much, they always though the pain was psychological. We didn’t have anything like Imitrex, and they only gave me dilantin plus 20 or 30 T#3s every month. And of course they told me to ‘Learn to Live with It’. I stayed in bed a lot…… plus, I ended up on social security disability for seven years befor the almost constant migraines eased off. Only then was I able to learn to live with them.
Now, in the last three years my migraines have increased (ever since my heart surgery). The irony of it all is, this time around, I’ve got all the pain relievers I want but now I can’t take them because of my bad heart. The most I can handle is ½ Relpax. Not much help….
enie
PS: Sorry for long post. I’m using you guys as a sounding board.
Yes he has a Neurologist, but not one that is willing to reevaluate or investigate. At the Medical teaching Hospital were he goes, the Residents that get advanced the quickest are the ones that don’t 'rock the boat'.
Yeah, I've tried to tell him about rebound. He says he can tell the difference.
I know it took me quit awhile befor I could separate the two because for me a rebound was just a continuance of the migraine. It was a lot worse than just an ordinary stress headache, (but mine were not from Imitrex).
He tried morphine and topamax for about a year but didn’t like the side effects and the morphine didn’t do anything but kill the pain and drain his energy.
I'm puzzled as to how to help him. Besides worrying about neuropathy from too much Imitrex, I also worry that his blood pressure will drop too low on the days when he uses the max on his meds and we can't wake him. We also worry because when he does wake up he still gets behind the wheel. Yeah, he's a big boy 6'5", but when he is already on the 300mg nightly of elivil, plus, when his migraines hit he takes two Imitrex injections, and then, the oxy if the Imitrex doesn't work. After that, he becomes incoherent and then he’s out cold and he is still incoherent for awhile when he awakes.
I didn’t want him to go through what I had to go through. And I don’t want him to place himself in danger just to find pain relief. He’s still going through the stage where he thinks the pain is supposed to be gone completely. To me, that is dangerous.
Any hints? We don’t have any way to legally talk to his Doctor without my Son blowing his stack (It’s a big stack and neither his Dad nor I can take the volume or stress). We don’t want to ask the Doctor anything. We just feel that she needs to know that her treatment is not working and that he frequently over does it. We are the ones that live with him and threrefor we are the ones that would know. Plus, she needs to know he still gets drunk on weekends while on the meds. The one time I did speak to her, it was because my Son was drinking heavy and staying sick for a couple of days afterwards. This was while he's on meds that were labeled ‘do not drink’. The Doctor said that she was going to tell my Son anything I told her; plus she told me that my Son was the one that needed to tell her that he was drinking while on those meds, not his Mom; plus if I wanted to tell her anything that I needed to put it in writing and give it to my Son and he could give it to her. And that was all befor the privacy laws started. How do we help? I understand that he needs to be responsible for his own actions, but I still feel that his Doctor should know if there is a problem that relates to her treatment for him. If he had a wife, she would be able to give the Doctor information, then why not his Mom and Dad?
He’s stuck here at home with us because he can’t hold down a regular full time job because of too many migraines. His Dad and I only want help him to become independent again.
I feel that my Son’s Doctor could do more to figure out something that does help him get back on his feet.
He has a lot more medical treatment opportunities than I had, back when I was having migraines almost constantly. Back in the 80s, Doctors didn’t really believe in giving out pain relievers much, they always though the pain was psychological. We didn’t have anything like Imitrex, and they only gave me dilantin plus 20 or 30 T#3s every month. And of course they told me to ‘Learn to Live with It’. I stayed in bed a lot…… plus, I ended up on social security disability for seven years befor the almost constant migraines eased off. Only then was I able to learn to live with them.
Now, in the last three years my migraines have increased (ever since my heart surgery). The irony of it all is, this time around, I’ve got all the pain relievers I want but now I can’t take them because of my bad heart. The most I can handle is ½ Relpax. Not much help….
enie
PS: Sorry for long post. I’m using you guys as a sounding board.
enie
03-15-2006, 06:48 AM
Blasterboy,
Topamax gave him violant nightmares
Topamax gave him violant nightmares
theweaver2
03-15-2006, 08:34 PM
Enie,
I feel bad for your son and for you.... Migraines and pain are sooooooo debilitating. And there is no cure for migraines except to "manage" them.
Sounds as if your son is having a difficult time right now doing that. It's possible to actually have headaches that frequently and its not rebound. I was told I was having rebound at one point and even though I thought not I agreed to be hospitalized and go through an IV drip to get me away from the abortive I was taking at the time, which was Cafergot. Now, they don't even dispense cafergot because of the horrible longterm effects.
Anyhow, after my 3-4 day "drip" I came out of the hospital with a new "plan". I followed that plan and new meds for 3 full months. I didn't even drink caffeine because that can trigger migraines. Welllll, my headache pattern didnt change and my neuro at that time didn't have anything better to offer me so I went back to the cafergot route because I had no other choices at that time.
A couple years later I tried a new neuro and he immediately took me from cafergot to Amerge, which got me away from that horrible abortive. After a couple years of all the preventative drugs he tried botox. I was able to drop all my preventatives and just use abortives a few days a week effectively.
Your son, at 27, is being prescribed these things that are enabling him to take so much at a time. I think its his doctor's responsibility to restrict these meds. I know you're his MOM and once a mom always a mom, but at 27 he needs to be responsible for himself.
Eventually, he will get himself into a serious situation, especially drinking with those drugs. Obviously trying to educate him isn't helping.. I will just pray that when he does (and it will at his rate), he will appreciate having you there for support.
It kinda upsets me that his doctor is allowing him to use so much imitrex. Actually, many insurance companies won't allow patients to be prescribed that much imitrex. How is he getting so much???
I feel bad for your son and for you.... Migraines and pain are sooooooo debilitating. And there is no cure for migraines except to "manage" them.
Sounds as if your son is having a difficult time right now doing that. It's possible to actually have headaches that frequently and its not rebound. I was told I was having rebound at one point and even though I thought not I agreed to be hospitalized and go through an IV drip to get me away from the abortive I was taking at the time, which was Cafergot. Now, they don't even dispense cafergot because of the horrible longterm effects.
Anyhow, after my 3-4 day "drip" I came out of the hospital with a new "plan". I followed that plan and new meds for 3 full months. I didn't even drink caffeine because that can trigger migraines. Welllll, my headache pattern didnt change and my neuro at that time didn't have anything better to offer me so I went back to the cafergot route because I had no other choices at that time.
A couple years later I tried a new neuro and he immediately took me from cafergot to Amerge, which got me away from that horrible abortive. After a couple years of all the preventative drugs he tried botox. I was able to drop all my preventatives and just use abortives a few days a week effectively.
Your son, at 27, is being prescribed these things that are enabling him to take so much at a time. I think its his doctor's responsibility to restrict these meds. I know you're his MOM and once a mom always a mom, but at 27 he needs to be responsible for himself.
Eventually, he will get himself into a serious situation, especially drinking with those drugs. Obviously trying to educate him isn't helping.. I will just pray that when he does (and it will at his rate), he will appreciate having you there for support.
It kinda upsets me that his doctor is allowing him to use so much imitrex. Actually, many insurance companies won't allow patients to be prescribed that much imitrex. How is he getting so much???
enie
03-15-2006, 10:45 PM
Theweaver2,
He gets 6 Imitrex from the pharmacy and the rest he gets as samples from his Doctor.
I don't think that they use Botox at the clinic where he goes. I haven’t heard of it anyway. Does it have to be done by a Neurosurgeon? If so, that is a separate office. I will ask when I go to see my Neurologist in a couple of weeks. Both of our Doctors are in the same complex.
Thank you so much,
enie
He gets 6 Imitrex from the pharmacy and the rest he gets as samples from his Doctor.
I don't think that they use Botox at the clinic where he goes. I haven’t heard of it anyway. Does it have to be done by a Neurosurgeon? If so, that is a separate office. I will ask when I go to see my Neurologist in a couple of weeks. Both of our Doctors are in the same complex.
Thank you so much,
enie
Kissa
03-16-2006, 08:55 AM
I wouldn't be concerned about the pain meds it's the Imitrex that could be dangerous at that level regardless of weight. There are other types of medications that do the same thing, it's probably in his best interest to try switching to one of those to see if he gets better results.
Also it doesn't seem that he's on a real maintenance medication like a blood pressure med which can help in his situation. I'm surprised he's not a walking zombie on that much elavil (which is probably what the doctor is using as a maintenance/preventative med instead of a bp med) He also needs to learn what triggers the migraines, particularly foods, and avoid them completely.
I've suffered from migraines for years and used to get them daily as well but a change in lifestyle has reduced them drammatically. I had to stop using the Imitrex injections because they caused me to black out and stop my heart and was switched to a different medication which was more effective.
Barbie
Also it doesn't seem that he's on a real maintenance medication like a blood pressure med which can help in his situation. I'm surprised he's not a walking zombie on that much elavil (which is probably what the doctor is using as a maintenance/preventative med instead of a bp med) He also needs to learn what triggers the migraines, particularly foods, and avoid them completely.
I've suffered from migraines for years and used to get them daily as well but a change in lifestyle has reduced them drammatically. I had to stop using the Imitrex injections because they caused me to black out and stop my heart and was switched to a different medication which was more effective.
Barbie
theweaver2
03-16-2006, 10:42 AM
Theweaver2,
He gets 6 Imitrex from the pharmacy and the rest he gets as samples from his Doctor.
I don't think that they use Botox at the clinic where he goes. I haven’t heard of it anyway. Does it have to be done by a Neurosurgeon? If so, that is a separate office. I will ask when I go to see my Neurologist in a couple of weeks. Both of our Doctors are in the same complex.
Thank you so much,
enie
Botox is primarily used in the cosmetic industry to get rid of wrinkles... Kinda gives botox a bad name because its used usefully in medical conditions also. If you search the internet for "botox for migraines" it will help you learn more about it.
I have mine done by my neurologist every 3-4 months. I also see a pain specialist who does the same thing for her migraine patients. It does have to be done correctly and takes a while to work.
The theory behind it is to relax the muscles that contract duirng migraine. In my case, my neck muscles contracting would trigger a migraine and vice versa.... I was mess.
I'm not impressed AT ALL with your son's doctors management of his migraines and other problems... Of course, if he is giving him what he needs to "get by" why should he change....
I'm still afraid he will have to face an "incident" before he wakes up that these meds at these doses could be dangerous for him.
I have sympathy for anyone who has to deal with migraines and life......
He gets 6 Imitrex from the pharmacy and the rest he gets as samples from his Doctor.
I don't think that they use Botox at the clinic where he goes. I haven’t heard of it anyway. Does it have to be done by a Neurosurgeon? If so, that is a separate office. I will ask when I go to see my Neurologist in a couple of weeks. Both of our Doctors are in the same complex.
Thank you so much,
enie
Botox is primarily used in the cosmetic industry to get rid of wrinkles... Kinda gives botox a bad name because its used usefully in medical conditions also. If you search the internet for "botox for migraines" it will help you learn more about it.
I have mine done by my neurologist every 3-4 months. I also see a pain specialist who does the same thing for her migraine patients. It does have to be done correctly and takes a while to work.
The theory behind it is to relax the muscles that contract duirng migraine. In my case, my neck muscles contracting would trigger a migraine and vice versa.... I was mess.
I'm not impressed AT ALL with your son's doctors management of his migraines and other problems... Of course, if he is giving him what he needs to "get by" why should he change....
I'm still afraid he will have to face an "incident" before he wakes up that these meds at these doses could be dangerous for him.
I have sympathy for anyone who has to deal with migraines and life......
enie
03-16-2006, 04:17 PM
Thank you all for your advice and input
very much.....
very much.....