I was wondering how many people here agree with this philosophy. It goes like this: As a drug user, you become more and more selfish in your quest for more drugs. You pitty yourself and then use that pitty as another excuse to use.

Maybe this applies to some people but for the other half of us it doesnt. Never once have I pittied myself and used "self-pitty" to go to use more drugs.

Before I even knew about the fact that I was a sitting duck in terms of "drug using genetics" being passed down to me from my family, I knew I was a drug addict and alcoholic through and through. I didnt know where it came from, just that it was definately there. So I had no chance to say, "Poor me, I was doomed from day 1 to use drugs and alcohol because my genetics programmed my body to yearn for them". No, I just did them because I had to.........because my body was screaming at me to do so.

No self pitty here.

Now I do realize that it makes it much easier to take your mind off using when you turn your attention to other people and do good things for other people, but that also plays into deep religious beliefs I have as well.

The bottom line is that I don't agree that every drug user is a self-centered brat who uses because he/she has too much money, or because they had a tragedy in the family that they just cant deal with sober. I am a firm believer of the genetics theory. People are born into this disease and thats just how it is. In my opinion self pity plays a very minor role for most people, if it plays a role at all.

I was wondering how many people here agree with this philosophy. It goes like this: As a drug user, you become more and more selfish in your quest for more drugs. You pitty yourself and then use that pitty as another excuse to use.

Maybe this applies to some people but for the other half of us it doesnt. Never once have I pittied myself and used "self-pitty" to go to use more drugs.

Before I even knew about the fact that I was a sitting duck in terms of "drug using genetics" being passed down to me from my family, I knew I was a drug addict and alcoholic through and through. I didnt know where it came from, just that it was definately there. So I had no chance to say, "Poor me, I was doomed from day 1 to use drugs and alcohol because my genetics programmed my body to yearn for them". No, I just did them because I had to.........because my body was screaming at me to do so.

No self pitty here.

Now I do realize that it makes it much easier to take your mind off using when you turn your attention to other people and do good things for other people, but that also plays into deep religious beliefs I have as well.

The bottom line is that I don't agree that every drug user is a self-centered brat who uses because he/she has too much money, or because they had a tragedy in the family that they just cant deal with sober. I am a firm believer of the genetics theory. People are born into this disease and thats just how it is. In my opinion self pity plays a very minor role for most people, if it plays a role at all.

I'm not sure how to put this without coming across in the wrong way so I will preface it by saying, I mean this with the utmost respect and do not say it to be combative. That being said, do you not see the self centeredness of your post? Self centeredness and self pity do not in any way have to go hand in hand.

I'm not sure how to put this without coming across in the wrong way so I will preface it by saying, I mean this with the utmost respect and do not say it to be combative. That being said, do you not see the self centeredness of your post? Self centeredness and self pity do not in any way have to go hand in hand.

No I really do not see any self centerdness in my post. I just stated where I stand on the subject and asked what others thought about it and what their stance on the subject is.

Maybe I'm missing something though. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not perfect so I could have easily posted something self centered without knowing it.

If you would, please point out what you mean by me being self centered in my post. You won't hurt my feelings I promise :)

No I really do not see any self centerdness in my post. I just stated where I stand on the subject and asked what others thought about it and what their stance on the subject is.

Maybe I'm missing something though. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not perfect so I could have easily posted something self centered without knowing it.

If you would, please point out what you mean by me being self centered in my post. You won't hurt my feelings I promise :)

Firstly, my sponsor was the one that pointed this out during my first days in recovery and her wisdom was great.

She asked me to write a short couple of paragraphs about what sobriety meant and to define the disease for her. Finished writing, I handed pen and paper to her. She read it and then we discussed my feelings, which BTW, were eerily similar to yours. When we were done she looked down at the paper and started circling things... :confused: When she finished, she handed the paper back and looking down, I saw she had placed a circle around each "I" statement. It was a clarifying moment.

Your first post on this thread (at one glance) has approximately 15 "I" statements.

really really interesting constant,it makes ALOT of sense to me too.The thing that I personally found was that I spent a ton of time just 'justifying".you know what I mean?You can always find some way to actually justify your using,no matter how small or pitiful,you just do it in order for your mind to accept some of the crappy stuff you have to do in order to keep that supply going.like taking someone elses pills out of their medicane cabinet?"oh,its an old Rx they wont miss it" "they wont miss a few little pills".and that doesn't even hit on the BIG crap we did to justify using.

It isn't always a self pity thing its a big constant long running list of justifications.and it does hit on the oh poor me crap there too.it really scares me about the stuff I did that I could actually really justify somehow in my warped mind.If we didn't do this,we would not actually be able to do the things we did as some are just sooo ugly to try and even think about.I do think it not only allows us to feel somehow "entitled",but it allows us to actually live with ourselves and continue to do what we did in order to further our addictions.otherwise,the mind just couldn't accept it all.do you know what I mean?

justin,while there are indeed alot of genetics that play a role in the liklyhood of becomming addicted,it isn't really as simple as that,really.you are a product of your environment you know what I mean?not every single person who is born into an alcoholic predisposed family will become addicted or become an alcoholic.there are sooo many other factors that play into this,the list just goes on and on.its all in how you CHOOSE to live your life and how things were while growing up.if the alcoholic parent had cleaned up their act before the child was born.the predisposition is still there but since the child is not actually living in that dysfunctional atmosphere,the chances of the child becomming an addict or alcoholic just naturally will go down.

while there IS a genetic component,it in no way means that you will just automatically become an addict,you know?there are just so many other factors involved in just why a person who is predisposed does or does not follow the family tradition.

If you actually felt your body "screaming' for drugs,there has to be some other issues that are playing a huge part in your addiction,no ones body will just do that.It does make it all excusable in ones mind though.that I find very hard to believe,as genetic predisposition just does not work in that way at all.

not to sound harsh here,but I do think you DO feel self pity in just the way you worded things here.you seem to be thinking that you were some sort of a "victim' in all this?the "sitting duck" comment is what kind of tells that part of it.do you see what I mean?no one is ever just 'born to be an addict' sometimes it happens and some times it doesn't.it just raises the chances of it actually ocurring.espescially when you grow up in the atmosphere where you see people in your family using drugs or alcohol as a way to cope,or even drinking just to have 'fun'.But i know many many people who are genetically predisposed who are just fine with no addiction or alcohol problems.it comes down to the choices we make for ourselves.we ALWAYS have a choice.Those drugs don't just jump into your body by themselves.they are placed there by choice,not force.just trying to clarify.i hope things are going okay for you.Marcia

I feel that it is very dangerous for anyone to place the blame of their addiction on their genetics. That phylosiphy basically says "I am not responsible for my own actions and therefore should not be held accountable."

Bull Pucky.

We are all here on this board because of Choices we made. We chose to use the first time and we chose to continue to use, even when we knew we were headed to a bad place. Genetics may "predispose" but we are born with something called "free will" as well. That's my stance on the issue.

Thanks for listening,
Amy

feelbad, I am a college graduate and actually was going to pharmacy school when I decided that was going to be the stupidest move of my life. I took sociology in college and know about the "genetics vs. environment" argument. And scientists range from 100% genetic to 100% environment, but most are somewhere in between. But when you talk about physiological changes in your body that have nothing to do with psychology, you have no choice in the matter. When people that have alcoholic or drug addict genes get drunk or high the first time(or over a series of a few times....thats up for debate), a change takes place in their brain that can never be reversed. IT CAN BE FOUGHT, but it will never be switched off. I've heard this from numerous sources.

If it was merely "a choice" that I could make to not drink or take drugs, then I can tell you for a fact that I would not have quit hundreds of times over the past 7 years(and meant it with all my heart), and then go on to continue ruining the relationships with other people and the lives of myself and the people who love me and who I love by continuing to use drugs.

I agree that environment does play a small factor in this but not very much. The reason I say that is because(and I'm sure you have heard this many times) alcohol and drugs don't play favorites. It doesnt matter if you are rich, poor, good looking, in good health, bad health, from a dysfunctional family, or not from a dysfunctional family. That to me throws out the environment argument almost completely.

Constant, the reason "I" was used a lot of times in the first post was that I was talking about MY DISEASE and the "self centered theory". I cant speak for anyone but myself so "i" had to be used a lot. No other way around it in the context of the discussion i was having. That psychologist trickery has never worked on me. Psychologists thrive on people who are desperate and will accept anything they have to say that "seems revolutionary" to the drug addict's hope starved brain. Again, I agree that helping other people is great not only to help you recover but to lift yourself spiritually.

Those who believe that we have 100% choice in the matter of taking drugs or not taking them either:
-was not born with addictive genetics and therefore doesnt know of the horrible suffering and plight of the drug addict who wants desperately to do good and quit using drugs but cant. Or.............
-would take the stand that no gay people were born gay, that they chose to go against their insticts and become gay.

HydroHead, a cancer patient may be born with the predisposition to get cancer...... but once he gets it, free will is all but thrown out the window.

Predisposition and choice are different.

We all do have a choice. About everything. Some things we like to do. Others we do not. The problem with addiction is obviously it’s dire consequences. That is the insanity of it – but saying it is insane I think is also a cop out. I truly believe that after years and years blasting our synapses with these artificial rewards (I have read many times it is like we are marinating our brains) we have a hard time producing our chemicals again. Also there is a lot of learned behaviour involved –see your gay analogy which is a strike out right away because of the above.

What I am learning is that it takes a long-long-long time. A lot of effort and work to learn to live again.

I think all this has nothing to do with the slef-centred condemnation. For example, there are just as many self-centred non-addicts as there are addicts. I don’t justify my using. I don’t really think there is much wrong with it. Like the suggestion that we hide it and denial etc. I don’t hide it. I just do it. I don’t deny it. Show me a way out and let’s do it. There are drug users that are functional and happy. My greatest beef with it all is it’s legal status and it is on this that I blame most of the dire consequences that illegal drug users face. This of course goes out the window when we read about our pill popping legal users.

Where does that leave me?

I just know I want to feel and I don’t want to be a prisoner. That is all that drives me. Not it’s legal status (what a joke government nanny state), not what other people think, etc.

I think we should also be open to the possibility that some people will never be able to produce those chemicals anymore. I think some compassion is in order. If some people cannot realize happiness any other way, so be it. I know I can and I know most of my social issues (mild anxiety, sometimes mild paranoia – this one is directly pot related for sure, etc) are by products of my chemical use. They disappear in time.

Ethos

justin,just a thought here.if your theory were actually true and valid,then explain just how someone can use and abuse for many years and finally 'decide" to get sober and actually magically somehow does it?if what you are saying was true,we would have a country of addicts who never ever would be clean and sober,you know what I mean?it is a CHOICE we make to use or not,to say that despite the fact that you have tried and actually got yourself clean many times only to relapse I do think its kind of a cop out.My step father and my sister both have been clean for well over 25 years.I was clean for many many years myself until a severe spinal cord injury and the resulting secondary pain syndromes made me have to go back onto some sort of narcotic along with the tons of anti seizures tricyclics and a ton of other crappy meds just to control my 24/7 pain.it is always a choice whether concious or not.If there weren't hundreds of thousands of recovered addicts out there in the world some who havent used since like the 70s,I could see the validity of what you say to be true,but since people actually manage somehow to get themselves clean and back on track,well,it just is an excuse to use.If you are relapsing after really getting to where you were clean and sober,something needs to change in the way you were actually trying to maintain your sobriety.marcia

Predisposition and choice are different.

We all do have a choice. About everything. Some things we like to do. Others we do not. The problem with addiction is obviously it’s dire consequences. That is the insanity of it – but saying it is insane I think is also a cop out. I truly believe that after years and years blasting our synapses with these artificial rewards (I have read many times it is like we are marinating our brains) we have a hard time producing our chemicals again. Also there is a lot of learned behaviour involved –see your gay analogy which is a strike out right away because of the above.

What I am learning is that it takes a long-long-long time. A lot of effort and work to learn to live again.

I think all this has nothing to do with the slef-centred condemnation. For example, there are just as many self-centred non-addicts as there are addicts. I don’t justify my using. I don’t really think there is much wrong with it. Like the suggestion that we hide it and denial etc. I don’t hide it. I just do it. I don’t deny it. Show me a way out and let’s do it. There are drug users that are functional and happy. My greatest beef with it all is it’s legal status and it is on this that I blame most of the dire consequences that illegal drug users face. This of course goes out the window when we read about our pill popping legal users.

Where does that leave me?

I just know I want to feel and I don’t want to be a prisoner. That is all that drives me. Not it’s legal status (what a joke government nanny state), not what other people think, etc.

I think we should also be open to the possibility that some people will never be able to produce those chemicals anymore. I think some compassion is in order. If some people cannot realize happiness any other way, so be it. I know I can and I know most of my social issues (mild anxiety, sometimes mild paranoia – this one is directly pot related for sure, etc) are by products of my chemical use. They disappear in time.

Ethos

Great post, great points.

Self centeredness is not a reason to practice condemnation nor should it be an excuse to condone using, yet for us the addict/alcoholic it is exactly that. Just think about how much time us addicts/alcoholics spend mulling over our disease as we toss another one back. Drinking, using, and thinking about drinking and using, was a 24 hour job for me. If I wasn't drinking or using, I was thinking about drinking and using, and if I wasn't thinking about drinking and using ,I was thinking about NOT drinking and using...you see the self absorbed hamster wheel we get on?

I was completely unable to think my way into sobriety because my thinking had become too distorted. Of course, at the time, I "thought" my thinking was perfectly reasonable (as I tossed a few more back, popped a few more pills). The truth for me is drinking and using became my number one priority in everything. Oh I tried not using, not drinking but then I realized all I did was think about not drinking and using and then I would come up with "valid" reasons why drinking and using weren't so bad...and on and on and on.....

I just have yet to meet anyone who has thought their way into anything as everything requires action.

(p.s. notice how many "I's" I used ;) "

justin,just a thought here.if your theory were actually true and valid,then explain just how someone can use and abuse for many years and finally 'decide" to get sober and actually magically somehow does it?if what you are saying was true,we would have a country of addicts who never ever would be clean and sober,you know what I mean?

I answered this in my previous post.....here is the quote:

I took sociology in college and know about the "genetics vs. environment" argument. And scientists range from 100% genetic to 100% environment, but most are somewhere in between. But when you talk about physiological changes in your body that have nothing to do with psychology, you have no choice in the matter. When people that have alcoholic or drug addict genes get drunk or high the first time(or over a series of a few times....thats up for debate), a change takes place in their brain that can never be reversed. IT CAN BE FOUGHT, but it will never be switched off. I've heard this from numerous sources.

Notice how the disease can be fought and "put into remission", but it is always there. Here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about:

Go to an AA meeting. It doesnt matter whether the guy/gal has been sober for 2 days or 50 years, they still introduce themselves as an alcoholic. Their disease is in remission but very much still there, and they fight it every day.

Constant, I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to get at.

Are you saying you had no other interests while using except using?

Is that right?

ethos

Constant, I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to get at.

Are you saying you had no other interests while using except using?

Is that right?

ethos

No I'm not saying that, what I am saying is my other interest were not primary, my drinking and drugging were.

I answered this in my previous post.....here is the quote:

I took sociology in college and know about the "genetics vs. environment" argument. And scientists range from 100% genetic to 100% environment, but most are somewhere in between. But when you talk about physiological changes in your body that have nothing to do with psychology, you have no choice in the matter. When people that have alcoholic or drug addict genes get drunk or high the first time(or over a series of a few times....thats up for debate), a change takes place in their brain that can never be reversed. IT CAN BE FOUGHT, but it will never be switched off. I've heard this from numerous sources.

Notice how the disease can be fought and "put into remission", but it is always there. Here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about:

Go to an AA meeting. It doesnt matter whether the guy/gal has been sober for 2 days or 50 years, they still introduce themselves as an alcoholic. Their disease is in remission but very much still there, and they fight it every day.

I'd like to comment on your very last sentence. I am sober going on twelve years and I can assure I don't fight my disease any longer and haven't for many, many years now. Are there times when I jones? Yes, the first few warm days when I'd like to throw back and beer or 12, the first cold day when I'd like to drink a glass or 10 of wine, etc. These moments however are so fleeting, they are barely recognizable.

The board topic isn't "philosophy of addiction", so let's get back to admitting addiction and working on recovery, please.

Thanks.