I truly want to get off of xanax which i have been on since 1996. I take 3.5 mg a day: 0.5 mg 3 x day and 2 mg at night. When i approached my doctor 2 weeks ago, he prescribed klonopin 0.5 mg. I gathered lots of information on Klonopin and decided not to taper with it, mostly due to the withdrawal symptoms.

I went to see my psychiatrist today to see if he would prescribe valium so i could follow the crossover and taper schedule as specified in the Ashton Manual.

He didn't want to do it. That was clear. It helped that i had the taper schedule and the benzo equivilency chart. He was not impressed with Dr. Ashton's CV, stating bluntly that she was not an MD and later referred to her as a pharmacist. I also gave him an article titled Klonopin vs. Valium. (He had wanted me to taper off of xanax with Klonopin). and an article titled "Why Valium". I even wore a suitdress and heels instead of my usual jeans. He said he would do it but thought the valium mgs were too high but eventually gave in.

I am pretty excited about being able to use this method of tapering. It will take at least 6 months, maybe more. I will keep you posted on this thread about how it goes and my withdrawal symptoms.

Donna

Hi Donna
What fabulous news! I loved your power clothes - did this doctor ever have a chance?? LOL
As for Ashton - well your doctor couldnt be more wrong. She is far from being a pharmacist and is now an emeritus Professor at Newcastle University. Previously amongst other things she is: Professor C Heather Ashton MB ChB, DM, FRCP - a Doctor of Medicine and Fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - a very well respected member of the international community. She constantly lobbies the UK govt over benzos....... and many papers have been drawn up using her proposals.
I wont go on - she is there on the internet for anyone to research. She needs no advocate.
I rather suspect she is much more qualified than your doctor! But - no point getting into the professional jealousy cat fights?? LOLOL
Great news about the valium.
Take it easy with the cross over? Read your Ashton - she suggests cross over should take weeks - depending on your start up doses. When you stabilise then you can start on one of her tapering regimes. She has specific pages for withdrawal from klonopin - which I am sure you know.
Hopefully Blasterboy will be along to cheer you on from the sidelines too!
Good luck - you are doing just the right thing.
Keep your eyes on the prize...............
It took me about 6 months - but the taper kind of faded into the background of my life - just became part of me - and really the withdrawal was completely bearable - some drops I never noticed - altho it got a little harder at the end - but the trick is to slow up and do it at your own pace.
Looking forward to hearing how you are doing.
Well done you!! You'll never regret this!
encore

Couldnt resist: for your doctor:

Chrystal Heather Ashton DM, FRCP is Emeritus Professor of Clinical Psychopharmacology at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne, England.

Professor Ashton is a graduate of the University of Oxford and obtained a First Class Honours Degree (BA) in Physiology in 1951. She qualified in Medicine (BM, BCh, MA) in 1954 and gained a postgraduate Doctor of Medicine (DM) in 1956. She qualified as MRCP (Member of the Royal College of Physicians, London) in 1958 and was elected FRCP (Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians, London) in 1975. She also became National Health Service Consultant in Clinical Psychopharmacology in 1975 and National Health Service Consultant in Psychiatry in 1994.

She has worked at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne as researcher (Lecturer, Senior Lecturer, Reader and Professor) and clinician since 1965, first in the Department of Pharmacology and latterly in the Department of Psychiatry. Her research has centred, and continues, on the effects of psychotropic drugs (nicotine, cannabis, benzodiazepines, antidepressants and others) on the brain and behaviour in man. Her main clinical work was in running a benzodiazepine withdrawal clinic for 12 years from 1982-1994.

At present she is involved with the North East Council for Addictions (NECA) of which she is former Vice-Chairman of the Executive Committee on which she still serves. She continues to give advice on benzodiazepine problems to counsellors and is patron of the Bristol & District Tranquilliser Project. She was generic expert in the UK benzodiazepine litigation in the 1980s and has been involved with the UK organisation Victims of Tranquillisers (VOT). She has submitted evidence about benzodiazepines to the House of Commons Health Select Committee.

Professor has published approximately 250 papers in professional journals, books and chapters in books on psychotropic drugs of which over 50 concern benzodiazepines. She has given evidence to various Government committees on tobacco smoking, cannabis and benzodiazepines and has given invited lectures on benzodiazepines in the UK, Australia, Sweden, Switzerland and other countries.

Congrats to You Donna!!!! I think I made it too with finally getting my dalmane, similar to valium. What a differance! No xanax for 2 days now, and sleeping so much better. The first night I had to take a large amt, but that was due to the 3 wks of withdrawal hell, no sleep etc too wired. My Pysch sd she will call in 20 more 15mg pills and if I run out she will have to "re-evalute" so I hope I get this under control by then? From what I read dalmane and valium are very similar, good luck and YOU GO GIRL, thumbs up for standing your ground!!! :bouncing:

That's great news,I always refer people to The Ashton Manual who are trying to kick benzo's.One thing to remember,go slow,don't rush it.You've been on these for a good 10 years so it's going to take time to change.Good luck to you and follow the manual.....Dave

Hey Donna, well done!!!!!!!!

I am so pleased for you. I guess there will still be some periods of discomfort, but at least you are in with a chance of a relitivly workable system now; you must feel like there's been a weight lifted of your shoulders.

Keep us informed over the months please, especially on the cross-over. That seems like it will be the toughest bit, so take it easy on that; slowly does it like Dave adviced you. No 1st prize in this taper ;-)

Best Wishes

Hi Donna, congratulations on the success with your doctor!!!! Love the idea about the power clothes strategy!!! I have used that strategy before myself. It shouldn't matter, but it does. My doctor responds to me 100% differently if I am in a suit/heels...even though he may not agree with me he responds more on a line as an equal...most are soooooo uppity as evidenced by your doctors summary dismissal of Ashton because he didn't perceive her as a doctor. Doctors are an extremely academically class conscious group of snobs, not all, but many are. Nonetheless you accomplished your objective....yeahhhhh!!!! And, you will be successful with your taper. You have put a lot of work and effort into this so you are determined, aware, and in control of your detox plan...you go girl!!! Don't rush things. If you follow Ashton you should have minimal discomfort and worry with the rest!!! Hope you keep posting your progress as you are an inspiration to others trying to sort out how to reach your plateau!

Thank you so much for encouraging and supporting me.

I started the crossover last night. 1 mg of valium per 0.5 mg of xanax and took the other 1 mg of my regular dose of xanax. My crossover is kind of weird because unlike the examples on the ashton taper schedule, i took 0.5 tid and then 2.0 and then 1.5 at night instead of being on a even dose like 0.5 4 times a day. So I am getting advice on how to handle that. Woke up a bit wired.

Stopped the concerta 54 mg yesterday after reading "Your Drug May Be Your Problem" by Peter Breggin MD. He said most people are put on more and more psych drugs because of the side effect of the most recent drug. I was put on xanax to deal with anxiety on the job. I should have just quit and dealt with it. Major regret. Then when the xanax made me depressed, i was put on wellbutrin. When the wellbutrin made me agitated and too talkative, i was put on lamictal, a mood stabilizer. When i couldn't concentrate or learn new information, i was put on Concerta for ADD. When i had more agitation, i was put on Abilify.

With the help of my new psychiatrist, i plan to get off of all these meds and be drug free.

Anyway, i will stick to the topic of this thread and keep you updated.

Hey Donna
Great to hear you now on the crossover.
Good for you for ditching the other drugs. Read Breggin myself - makes a ton of sense? The overload of drugs that some people end up with? From ADs to Adderall................... I suspect that your whole situation is a result of taking xanax? Anyway - only way to find out is the way you are going...........
Take it nice n easy - and just let it become part of your daily life - no big deal - dont give it more space in your life than necessary...................
Just wishing you all the very best.............
:) :) :)

Doctors are just far too eager to put us on one drug to the next just chasing symptoms without taking time to sort out whether the symptom is caused by a body biological imbalance OR by an externally supplied drug source. When the source of symptom is the later, to me it just makes no sense to keep adding more drugs; just change/eliminate the drug causing the symptom when possible. That is why I want to be free of it all. I had trusted that these doctors KNEW and were making best prescribing decisions for my medical needs; wronggggggggggg. That was soooooooo foolish of me....caused me to learn the hard way...not once but 3 times!!!! Vicodin, Ultram, and Xanax.....not all at the same time, thank God, but over several year period. Now, I am very questioning to the point of distrustful I think. I research everything now and don't just assume that because one doctor said it that it is best for me.

A great example is the struggle that so many here have encountered in getting other doctors to prescribe Valium for the drug bridge support taper from Xanax.....even when given copies of the information (Ashton) some have been dismissively defiant when the evidence is conclusively there...all one has to do is read it. If we as laypersons can figure this out then so should they be able to. I am just not willing to risk allowing myself to be put at risk again of developing any type of dependency on any drugs when it is obvious that these doctors are prescribing things that they misunderstood and mismanage. I realize that doctors are human and will mistakes, we all do. I am just not willing to gamble with an issue of dependency at their mercy. It is a horrible feeling, as you well know now, to feel drug dependent and realize that your doctor actually knows less than you do about an aspect of it....and yet you are at his/her mercy for support to enable you to do what you need to do. Call me crazy maybe, but I am just not willing to give up such a critical area of control in my life that I now know can have such serious consequences to me!! I never want to be that vulnerable to risks like that again.

Jam - no you are not crazy - very far from it!!
I agree with absolutely all you write.
Anecdotal I know - but - I am the daughter of a doctor and the mother of a doctor - they share your views! Neither my father nor son take any drugs of any sort - its a very ill day the day they take an aspirin for a headache!! LOL
;)
I wont tell you their views on the pill culture in some of our so called western civilisations!

thanks Encoreunfois,

"Take it nice n easy - and just let it become part of your daily life - no big deal - dont give it more space in your life than necessary..................."

I HAVE been giving this too much attention. I have an online support group that is helping with the taper and this board and an email group, plus my books and journals...and pills; I have decided to get on the puter only 3 times a day instead of constantly checking. I put the book and my journal away for the day too.

Thanks again

and Jam, I'm with you. I am looking forward to the day when i am drug free and i am not going to put myself in this position again. I am jealous of people that don't have to take pills every 5 hours. At the rate i was going, i would have had early senility, my memory and cognitive skills are so poor.

Getting on the "doctor med advise" , now my 83yr old father is popping more pills! God, these da.n dr's! He is right where he swore he would never be like that, tons of daily pills, one effecting the other issue and so on. They keep saying well lets try this one...He's got a pill for everything, and the poor guy doesn't even know what they are for? He just confessed to me he likes the little darvocet ones! I sd Dad that is a narcotic!! but he says: "it makes me feel good" Dr says I can take as needed 3#'s day! I've seen too many of my close family die in the last few yrs after getting "more meds". The people who seem to be "living" are not on anything! yes there are occassions, short term to adjust a problem but continuing and not evaluating is the scary part. His sugar leval has dropped to 40, woops, they finally sd lets try a different dose! maybe his diabetes has regulated itself? no need for a drug? dah! then they add a fluid pill, then add a blood thinner and so on...I've lost my mother at age 62, grandmother 53, grandfather 44, a lot had to do with lifestyle eating habits and lack of exercise. I will die of "natural causes", no more pills!!!!!!!!!!

4 9 06. Update on ashton taper: So far have tapered off 0.5 mg xanax at night and am taking 10 mg of valium in it's place. I do this for a week. Then cut another 0.5 mg at night and take 20 mg of valium. I stopped the concerta so i would be calmer and between the two, i am now taking hour long naps in the afternoon each day. Other than that no side effects or w/d. Donna

Donna
There is really no reason why you should suffer any withdrawals at at all - if you go slow enough! Dont talk yourself into them!
I know valium is very sedating - took me ages to get used to - but once crossed and on taper I never really had any problems. The trick is slow and steay - but to keep going... Good luck

Started valium crossover on 4/6. Today 4/11, first day with no nap. Much more energy. I have made a list of things to do to keep from getting depressed/anxious and I think it will help a lot to be prepared. As per Ashton Manual am not tapering Wellbutrin and Lamictal until after the xanax/valium is out of my system and i am doing ok.

4/14 Increased valium to 20 mg at night and cut the xanax from 1.5 to 1 mg during the night. During the day xanax is still the same. 0.5 3xday. Slept later. Drank 2 cups of coffee to wake up and now wished i only had one. I am going to taper off the caffeine too so that i won't be as nervous when i taper from the valium.

I have been learning a lot about the long term affects of benzo's and am hopeful that i won't continue to have problems 6 months to a year after last dose of valium. It is very common.

I also learned that many people are started on multiple drugs following the first drug being a benzo. The same as happened to me. So looking forward to being off of all the meds.

thanks for your encouragement.

Donna

I have been aware too of all that over prescribing by doctors - who - IMO - havent a clue. First the first benzo - then the side effects - then the next benzo - to treat those symptoms - then add another pill to the mix to address the next set of symptoms - and add some more for the heck of it - stir............................ sounds like a concoction to drive you insane? Quite literally!
Ditch them all - and dare to really live?
Great work Donna.

One of the ingredients of my "cocktail" is abilify. I cannot find any information about how to stop this med which is for scizophrenia or mania of which i have never had neither. I don't know if i taper it or just stop it. On the safe side i am cutting by a few mg a month, but it is such a dangerous med that i would like to just stop it. I can't even find info on their home site and i have been searching the web for hours. Thanks if anyone can help me out.

"What should I watch for while taking Aripiprazole? (Back to top)
Visit your prescriber or health care professional for regular checks on your progress. It may be several weeks before you see the full effects of aripiprazole. Do not suddenly stop taking aripiprazole. You may need to gradually reduce the dose. Only stop taking aripiprazole on your prescriber's advice."


Looks as if you will have to taper?

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