Well this is my first time posting on a board like this, I just need to talk to people who have problems like mine and can relate. I stated have pain in my back off and on 11 years ago, they always said things like a pulled muscle or aan over worked muscle and always the same thing rest. A few years after the onset I had my first child and the pain began coming more often but it was still tolerable, and the doctors were still saying it was just muscle problems and I believed them, they were doctors and I thought they would tell me the truth. I had a second child and the pain was constant now and getting a little bit worse, at this point I have been on darvocet for 5 years and it is losing it effectiveness but it still takes the edge off. We accidentally get pregnant again the pain is unbearable I am put on percocet the baby was born a month early due to my pain, he is fine put my pain never got better, a doctor finally asks if x rays had ever been done and when I said no he ordered some Nothing so he did an MRI. L4-L5 and L5-S1 are both herniated. He puts me on darvocet. We are now at 7 years. They have done physical therapy, manipulation, injections, tens, and nothing has worked.
I went to a new doctor the other day and after looking at my new MRI he informed me that L3-L4 is degenerated, L4-L5 is degenerated with a small herniation, and L5-S1 is degenerated with a small herniation. Then he informed that there is no surgery that they can do that is going to help me at this time. So basically they can't do anything and I have to depend on pain killers the rest of my life? I can't do the things I want to, I can't work, I can't pick up my kids, I can't even carry a laundry basket up the stairs without paying for it later. They have me on percocet permanently now but I have to take care of my kids and be ready to go to an er if they needed it so I can't always take them when I need it. It doesn't seem fair. Is there anything that anyone can recommend, maybe something I could mention to my doctor? I am only 26 and I don't want to live like this. Please helpif you can.

Leslie

WoW all that and your only 26 ? If I were you I would have demanded x-ray's to be taken when you first thought you had a problem . Yes it isn't fair it's bullcrap that we can't do stuff without paying for it , but there are alot of people here with the same pain to give you answer's . I'm not so sure Percocets the answer , I take them and they don't take the pain away plus you can get addicted to them .

I'm sorry for your pain , but If I were you I would keep checking on different doc's to see If maybe there's a chance they could do somthing.

Good Luck

Well I am kinda limited on Doc's we are military so we have to go where they will send us. I have already been to 6 and they all say the same things.

I have my percocet under control, I only take it when I am in need of help, it takes the edge off and allows me to do the hard things I wouldn't normally be able to do. My husband just left out to sea for 6 months so I am without any help now.

Leslie

Yeah I was in the Army for 8 years. ( Infantry ) I don't have sea legs so I stuck with the ground. lol.. 6 doctor's telling you the same thing, Jeez that would stink . I don't know what to say to you , there has to be someone out there to help you. Sorry I can't help you . There has to be a doctor somewhere out there to help you . Good luck finding one and I hope your pain hold out to atleast your hubby gets home .
Oh and were all proud of our Troop's and hope they all come home safe..

Dear Leslieanne, Did they ever inject your facet joints? I have bulging disc at L5-S1, degenerated disc, and arthritis in my facet joints. My doctor thought all my pain was from the bad disc, but it was from the joints surrounding the disc. I totally understand your frustration-I am a stay at home mom with 4 kids ages 2-12. If I pick up anything too heavy, it will set my back off. My two year old is almost 3 now, and I have her climb up where she needs to go. I cannot be lifting her with my bad back. My pain also started 7 years ago after my second child was about 3. I know the pregnancies contributed to my pain, but I did a lot of ballet when I was younger, too. I also have been through many injections, lots of PT, tens machine, etc. I was prescribed Ultram for pain, but like you, I need to drive my kids places, so I don't take it and just suffer. Lots of ice helps. If you can get to a pain management doctor, that might help. I go to a Physiatrist who gives me the shots/nerve blocks,medicine. Like you, I am not a surgical candidate, just in lots of pain! Take care, Kera

I agree with Kera... If you have DDD, you most likely have osteoarthritis in facet joint... If this is the case, you may find some relief by laying on back, and SLOWLY pulling both knees to chest until you start to feel stretch and hold 5-10 seconds and repeat a few times.... If it bothers you, then stop, but give it a chance... However, if pain is from the bulging / leaking discs, you may need to stretch in the other direction.. I am seeing a physical therapist that is a spine expert, and tells me that if bulge is on back side, you need to lay on stomach, and slowly prop yourself up on your elbows, as though you were watching TV on the floor.. Very slowly at first, and do it 10 times for a few seconds and this is supposed to eventually push bulge back in.. It may make you a bit sore at first but over time you will get used to it, but ease into it and stop if you feel worse.... Also, strengthen stomach muscles and core (butt, hamstrings, etc) in order to take weight off of spine.. ALso, getting to ideal body weight is important too...

One more thing... Someone told me about a natural remedy called TRAUMEEL which is a natural anti-inflammatory.. You may want to try that along with glucosamine with condroitin for the joints... But, it must be accompanied with proper excercise to work (and takes time)..

I sure hope this helps... Get better..

Maurice

Kera thanks for the info, they did one injection and the doctor I am seeing now asked if they had done more, I told him about how I got no relief from the first one but I did get a spinal headache that lasted a month and so I didn't want another one...the headache was worse than the back pain. He then told me how he would never have recommended one because he says it wouldn't help me. I don't know about facet joints but I will mention it next appt. My kids are great they try to help by carrying the folded laundry up to thier rooms and putting it away, they try to carry in the groceries and do all the bending over for me since I can't.
Maurice the stretching is a good idea but I have done that before and things got worse so they had me to stop doing that. I used to be ideal weight but with the pain that excercise puts me in has caused me to gain weight. Without excercise diets don't work, my husband bought me a treadmil recently to try and help me so we will see how that helps. I will definately try the glucosamine with condroitin. Thanks. It really is nice to have people to talk to who understand, my family is supportive but they just don't understand. I don't really show them how much I hurt because i don't want pitty, and I don't want them to feel bad too.

Leslie

I know what you mean... Only a fellow "bad back" member truly understands. At my job, I have become the president of the club, and I am amazed at how many people have bad backs, and how little they really know about what to do about it.. My kids are great too.. A few months ago, when I couldnt move, they would bring me pillows, food and drinks, my meds, and most importantly, my remote control :-)

Stretching also hurt me in the beginning, perhaps because I was too ambitious, but took it VERY slow, and anything was better than nothing... ALso, some stretches really hurt, and stopped those, but kept the others going... Hopefully, time heals all, and you will get better... slowly, but better. Hang in there..

Maurice

Dear Leslieanne, A couple other things I thought of...ANY time I drop something on the floor, or the kids leave things on the floor, I pick it up with one of those "grabbers" (you can get them at the drugstore or catalogues). Or I get my two youngest to pick light things up from the floor. I feel bad that my 4 year old has gone through the worst of my back problems, but she really seems to like helping me out. For the last year she has told me she wants to be a doctor! She certainly has gone to a lot of them with me, and she actually has charmed the whole PT staff.

I find the best exercises are the stomach stabilizers, isometric tighteners, upper stomach crunches, etc. What seems to agravate my back are any exercises with a twisting motion-I don't do those any more. I also really watch that when I turn around, I do it with my whole body, not with any twisting. Also, when I reach for an upper cupboard, I try to use a stool or the grabber. There have been times when I have set my back off just by getting a coffee cup from a high cupboard.

Well, I am resting up my back for tonight-my son is in our church musical tonight. I am very excited to see it, but it will be a long sit. Take care, Leslieanne and Maurice...hope you have a good day! Kera

Hi All,
I'm so very sorry that you are in so much pain, at such a young age. I have agree with the grabbers, keep a few of them in the most used areas of the house, they are a life saver.

It surprises me that they say they can do nothing, i've not dealt with herniations, but I have DDD from L4-S1, I have had 4 fusions to try to fix a gr.2-3 splondy, they had to put the hardware in but had to leave it at the gr.2-3 splondy. That will keep things from getting worse, they say. I would think if they could do that much for me that they can't find some way to help you. I'm not doubting you, but am doubting the Dr.'s. I have seen countless Dr.'s for many years, I've been told I have everything from MS, a brain tumor(which was a MRI shadow) to I'm imagining it. Then like you they took the RIGHT tests and low and behold it's my back ! I was elated it wasn't MS. My son is in the Marines, but I'm not familiar with the medical treament at all.

I do so hope and pray that you find the help you need. Don't give up, I know how hard it is to keep going, but if you don't keep asking questions Dr.'s don't keep looking for answers.

I will keep you in my prayers, God Bless!

Carol

I am also 26 yrs old and was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease 3 yrs. ago. My DDD is at L4-L5 and L5-S1. I don't understand why they tell you that nothing can be done. I was on pain meds, did PT, had epidurals and then this past Jan. I underwent an L4-L5 and L5-S1 spinal fusion with titanium pedical screws and rods and the pain is 70% better but this is a surgery that requires alot of recovery time. I would ask the doctor why they can't try PT and epidurals and if those don't work then why can't they do a spinal fusion with discectomy and laminectomy. Just thought I would let you know that there are things that they can do so get a second opinion and don't give up.

I have done pt and had the injections but they said I am not a surgical candidate. They told me that maybe in a few years there would be more they could do for me. I also think that if it would be a long recovery time then that would be a big problem. I have three kids all under the age of 6 no family or friends that live in my area to help out and my husband is deployed with the navy. It sucks but it is my life unfortunately. I will of course ask what my doctor thinks about it but I am no longer an optimist. I have gotten my hopes up many times only to have them broken so I don't dare dream that anything will go as I want it anymore. My husband says I am a pessimist now. I am very glad to hear that they were able to help you though, at this young of an age it is not a promising future that looms ahead of us. My doctor said that if I was in my 50's he would not have been concerned but he said it is fact that I am 26 with 3 bad discs that have been bad since I was 15 that worries him. Thanks for the great advice.

Lesilieanne (I hope I spelled your name correctly);
Been reading all these post re: PT, I wonder if I'm the onlyest one that does PT in a pool (up at the local VA Hospital). Anyway, that's really all I wanted to suggest, is that perhaps one of your Navy Doc's could set you up in a pool therapy program. My therapist keeps telling us (there are three fellow suffere's from either pre-op or post-op, I'm sad to say, no-op...too old, too fat too grumpy[my spousal unit's opinion]). Anyway my treatment consists of being sent down to Denver once every two years for a 30 second appt with one of the two nuro's to be told "if the pain gets any worse, make an appt." I normally have to wait 6 months from the time my Doc requests the appt, until it comes through. Anyway, the treatment they've got me on is 75mg Morphine sulfate contin twice a day, with 25mg of percocete (5X5mg) for break through pain.
No I'm not high, but I tend to drouse off when not concentrating, but then only at four hour intervals (as the Morphine contine kicks in). I'm now a believer in Pool Therapy, I'm now beginning to lose wieght, and I'm feeling better, and the various stretch's no longer bother me. Even if you have to go to the Base Pool, it would really help you, as you quickly loose 80% of your body weight when you're up to your neck in water.
Lot's of luck.
Jim

DDD T-1 thru S-1
Cervical stenosis @ C4-5, 5-6, 6-7
Thoracic stenosis @ T2-3
Lumbar stenosis @ L4-5, L5-S1
Herniated cervical disc's @ C4-5, 5-6, 6-7
Herniated lumbar disc's @ L4-5
Ruptured disc at L5-S1 with fragment empinging on left siatica nerve root

P.S. I have to wonder why so many are afraid of being addicted to narcotics, when the alternative is being addicted to severe pain...I choose the Morphine over the pain, every time.

Leslieanne:
Oh my dear fellow back pain sufferer. :angel: I'm sorry if this post gets a little long but want to try and help any way I can. Let me give you a little background on myself (maybe it will help you feel less alone). I leaned over at work almost 7 years ago and felt a "pop" in my low back and pain. After the first few doctors, XRay, MRI's, CT Scan, and a bunch of meds no one seemed to think anything was really wrong with me. But the pain kept getting worse and I was able to do things less and less. I finally ended up with a Pain Management doc and he did a discogram and found that I had two levels of DDD in my low back. Tried Epidurals and Physical Therapy but with no luck. He performed the IDET (I was scheduled to have both discs done but I was crying so bad under sedation that he couldn't bring himself to do both levels at the same time). Went back a few months later and had the second done and after some healing time we realized it had failed. Sent me to a surgeon to discuss fusion and the surgeon said he wanted another discogram since it had been a while since my first one. This showed I now I had THREE degenerated discs. Went back to surgeon with test results in hand and he said he wouldn't touch me. My discs were in too bad of shape and there were too many to fuse with any success. If I found a doctor to do the surgery I would maybe have some pain relief for a few months but more than likely not and would stand a huge risk that the fusion would end up causing more damage. Back to the PM doc I went and my only option was to have a morphine pump implanted that delivers a constant flow of the drug into my spine. I was 33 years old by this point. (I'm 37 now). Plus I still take oral narcotics to help with the breakthough pain. The worst part is that I'm still unable to do much of anything. I can't work, drive, sit for very long, stand for very long, walk for very long. Can't lift more than a gallon of milk and spend most of my time doing a bunch of nothing. My story is not a pretty one, but I had to accept that this is my life and do the best with it that I can. I used to be very outgoing, the eternal optimist (you know, the glass is half full kind of thing) and now I'm withdrawn a lot of the time. But I get up and face the day and try to put a smile on my face and realize that I have so much to be thankful for.

There is a point where nothing more can be done, but I'm not sure if you are there yet. Please either talk to your doctor or try and see if it would be possible to see another one. The morphine pump has a great success record with most people and gives many people a relatively normal life back. There is also another implantable option that is kind of like a TEENS unit that's called a Spinal Cord Stimulator. If you do a google search for Implantable Pain Relief, you'll find a wealth of information on both the stimulator and pump. Also if you go to Medtronic.com they are the makers of one of the morphine pumps (these can be filled with things other than morphine as well) and if you contact them they can mail you some information too. The biggest problem might be the recovery time. The pump has to have the medication gradually increased over time to get you used to it. Besides that it requires surgery to implant it. Is there anyone on the base that could help you with your kids if you need to have something done? Could a family member come stay with you for a little while?

I'm so sorry that you are going through all of this. Please know that you aren't alone and post anytime you need to talk. If you have any questions that I can help with, just let me know.

Good luck! I hope you find some answers soon :wave:
Dee

you guys are brave,sorry you in alot of pain,I'm a baby cause I'm afraid to attempt a fusion at L5 S1 due to it might not fuse,I got alot of arthritis afraid it will become worse,that damn bone graft got me really freaky,the thought of hardware may become irritated or maybe body be rejecting it,could go on,I'm in a quiet stage,basically careful what I do,heck with how my place looks anymore,just concern about keeping back from worsening.The radio frequency seems to help me at this point,wish was a cure.Should I continue living way I am,or go for surgery June 13th?The thoughts of more pain,to go again with pain.so confused.Any advice be grateful

Hi Lady... If radiofrequency is helping, then perhaps stick with it for as long as you can... But, if nothing helps, and doc tells you that surgery is best option, then you should consider this.... I know people personally with fusion and they did just fine.... In fact, neighbor was running around in a few months like it never happened.... Just be sure you pick a good surgeon.. one that has completed spine fellowship..

Bye for now..

Maurice

I'm sorry to say but you are the only one who can decide if surgery is the right thing for you. Unfortunately there are no magic answers and we can't see into the future and find out what will happen. Boy would that be a neat and helpful trick though huh?! LOL
I wish I could offer you some help deciding, but all I can say is think it through carefully and be sure you completely trust the doctor that would be doing the surgery.

Good luck! Keep us posted as to what you decide or if you need to talk

See if you are a canadite for the DRX-9000. The first time I tried it I improved 30% or so. It cost me $3500 and my insurance didn't cover it. Some chiropractors will give you a guarantee on this treatment. The second time I tried the procedure I had to stop because of the pain. Good luck. Richard (Coyote Girl is my dog)