Hi all! I'm hoping someone here can help me as my doctor doesn't seem to be able to.

Here's the story. Sorry for the length.

I was prescribed Esgic Plus 3 months ago for headaches. Doctor prescribed them as 1-2 every 8 hours not to exceed 6 daily. I have never taken that many. I would take them maybe 3 times a week at most and only 2 pills at a time totaling 6 capsules a week at most. He prescribed 80 and I have only gone through 56 in 3 months time.

Now the problem is that I never quite got used to the side-effects and didn't particularly care for the drug so I tried to stop a week ago. Since then I have been having major anxiety, headaches, stomach cramps and diarrhea, and MaJOR insomnia. I mean I can go nights without one minute of sleep. I broke down and took some because I needed to sleep and to get rid of the headache and it seems to straighten me out for the next couple of days. Then if I don't take it, the symptoms start over again. I will only need to take about 2 capsules.

I confronted the doctor on this a few days ago. He says there is absolutely no way I can become dependent on the amount I was taking. I say it is just plain weird that everything was fine and life was normal until I stopped that week. He says coincidence and prescribed Midrin for headaches and Xanax for anxiety (1 1/2 - 3 mgs daily). I have spoken to him about this twice and each time he says the same thing. YOU ARE NOT DEPENDENT!

I went 2 1/2 more days since then not taking it and was fine up until last night where I had wicked nightmares (so very real) and stomach upset. I am in a horrible state of anxiousness kind of like an animal trapped in a cage at times. I haven't been taking the Xanax yet but started today.

I'm paranoid I am going to go into severe withdrawal but that may just be my paranoid nature. I have anxiety issues to boot.

My question is how can I taper off this since my doctor seems in no way convinced I need to, so I guess I need to do it on my own. Can I use the Xanax? I have read that you can use benzo's to taper off barbitruates. I like the Xanax better as it curbs the anxiety perfectly. I never used the Esgic for a high although I am guilty of using it to be able to sleep sometimes, but still never more than the 4-6 capsules a week.

I will agree that everything I have read would point to safe use of this drug and there shouldn't be a dependence issue, but I also know my symptoms are very real when I stop it and that medicine has no rules so I could be an exception. There is no psychological need for the drug.....trust me...I would like to get as far away from it as possible. The only time I use it now is to curb the symptoms that I have without it.

Doctor says it's all in my head because I'm paranoid about addiction/dependence and am therefore creating these symptoms myself. I am not so sure, but would much rather it be that than to actually be dependent.

My thoughts were to start taking the Xanax on a regular level close to what I was consuming with the Esgic. Then to taper off by each week. I have taken Xanax several times in the past for anxiety and have always been cautious of my usage and was always able to stop taking it when I didn't need it anymore. Therefore, I feel confident there will be no danger of abuse/dependence between Xanax and I. I know whatever said here cannot be construed as medical advice but am curious as to other's opinions on this matter since I've sort of run out of places to turn.

Thanks for any help. Take care!

I just researched this drug before I posted we have simular stories. I googled the name of the drug. This is a highly habit forming drug and shouldnt be taken more than 2 days/wk and no more than 1 tab at a time. So maybe your dr should research that what your going through truly might be w/d. I was given fenabard (I'm not sure about the spelling) and it has the same ingredients as your prescription does, it was a barb, caffine and tylenol. I never abused it and just took as I needed it. When I asked my Dr for a refill a long time after my original script he was very reluctant and gave me Midrim and toradol instead. Midrim is almost the same I think it has the tylenol and caffine not sure about the barbituate though never looked it up. This did help for my headaches though but I think the toradol works better. Then I was put on elavil which helped me so much I no longer had the daily headaches at all but do have the occasional migraine which my neoroligist told me to take 4 advil liquidgels at the first sign and that works the best so far although sometimes I do have to take the toradol and the midrin. The elavil has a horrible hangover effect for like the first 3wks it knocks you right out and its hard to wake up but I trucked through it and now I'm glad I did I just started out at 10mg at bedtime although I took it around 7pm and went to bed around 9-10pm because it helped with the hangover. I would ask your Dr about that too. I would recommend weaning off the esgic skip a dose or cut in 1/2. Also said that there might be an interaction with xanax but my dr gave me that too so not sure if thats correct. So do your research and let your Dr know and maybe he might listen sometimes they are ignorant to their patients needs. Good luck. KIm

He also gave you kinda a high dose of xanax too my dr would only give me .25mg to take 3x's per day. But I mostly would just take one at bedtime ONLY if I was having anxiety as you I too dont want to have a problem with a benzo as they are hell to get off of. So I wouldnt even take what the Dr told you to take I would take maybe .25 or .50 if thats possible and see if that helps with the anxiety and if it doesnt I would take another dose most likely it will though. It total hell to have to live with the headaches I know what your talking about I have chronic headache syndrome which mean I usually dont go a day without some sort of headache and its a horrible way to live. Ok I think I'm done now. I hoped I helped out some. Kim

what is "esgic plus 3"? is is a narcotic, a tranquilizer? drs. will almost always deny you are addicted to whatever you are taking-they are either ignorant of the fact, or don't want to take responsibility. xanax is a very addictive drug-a benzo. this is the hardest drug to withdraw from. on a very small dose you can become dependent. i speak from experience. if you usually take 2 esgic three times a week, this is about every other night. try taking one less pill for a week, see how you feel(you might have to go a little longer than a week). then taper another pill for one or two weeks, and so on. if you start to get withdrawals during your taper, stay where you are at until they subside, but try not to go back up. you definitely want to take them on a regular schedule while tapering, so that you don't go into withdrawals. some people have absolutely no problem coming off of xanax. others go off and on xanax(or other benzos) with no problem, then the day comes that they start to take it again, and find it almost impossible to get off of. if you were taking the esgic for legitimate pain problems, why can't he switch you to something else? xanax isn't for pain. if esgic is a narcotic, you will have anxiety and panic in withdrawals. just go slowly, take yourself off of the pills the easy way-taper. question is, what will you do about your migraines? please let us know what kind of drug esgic is :wave:

Esgic is a combo of Tylenol, barbituate and caffine and is used to treat headaches its in the barbituate family. I have been given something simular and was switched to midrin too. Barbs are highly addictive.

Thanks Kim!

Seriously though, I've discussed this with the doctor twice in the same week and he SWEARS this is all in my head. I will admit it is probable as I am a very anxious person, but for some reason I just can't get it out of my head that it's the butalbital causing this. The symptoms are just to weird and unlike my "usual anxiety". I could go back to him the 3rd time but I'm almost sure he's going to look at me crazy again. He will just say "take the Xanax, it's all in your mind". I wish!

It's hard to taper the butabital because I honestly don't know how often I took it. I would take it for headaches and occassionaly sleep (yea I know I shouldn't for that reason). Therefore I don't really have a dosage to go by. I'm only averaging 6 capsules a week because I've divided the 56 capsules I took by the 14 weeks I took them, but some weeks it could have been 2, some 3 and even 0 on others. It varies so it's hard to come up with a schedule to taper.

I've taken the Xanax today and feel much better. I haven't had butabital in about 63 hours. Yes, I'm counting *LoL*. I'm still having super vivid weird dreams everytime I nap (xanax knocks me out), and am mildly anxious, but overall at least I'm sleeping! No headaches that Tylenol couldn't kill.

I'm pretty scared and freaked out as I've now convinced myself my doctor is wrong and I'm going to go into horrible withdrawal with delerium, halluciantions and seizures that I keep reading about. None of the anxiety I am creating is helping anything either.

What to do!?

Yes, Esgic is a Barbitruate. The withdrawal syndrome and addiction potential is about the same as benzo's. In fact you can substitute a Benzo for a Barb for a taper although usually they use valium or klonopin. This is all what I've read, I am no expert (yet). :)

He did prescribe Midrin for the headaches to replace the Esgic.

you're right, klonopin or valium is the drug to taper with-definitely not xanax! it is a very short-acting drug, and you can get used to it very quickly. you should probably do a search on the heather ashton benzodiazepene manual. it will tell you all you need to know about how dangerous benzos are-especially xanax. i'm definitely not trying to scare you. i am very informed on benzos and barbituates(they both work on the same brain receptors) simply because i went cold turkey off of a benzo called oxazepam. i didn't know it was a benzo. in the first 5-6 days i had hallucinations, not a wink of sleep, seizures, every withdrawal symptom you could possibly have. i reinstated on my benzos after 6 days(i was getting worse!). i then found a dr. to switch me to valium. i am now tapering from that slowly, but i am tapering, and that's what counts. i would hate to see anyone go through the hell i went through, and that alot of people go through coming off of benzos or barbituates. good luck.

If your Dr wont listen to you I would request a referral to a neurologist thats what I did and they will be more familiar with the drugs than your dr and can treat you properly whats what I did. Also instead of taking 2 cut back to 1 and see if that helps you some. Check with your ins. company you might not need a referral for a neurologist but everyone is different. But your regular dr can refer you to one and go from there. They are very aware of headaches and better able to treat you. Thats is what I would do and from personal experience has helped me alot more than my regular Dr. good luck Kim

I believe Butalbital is a long acting barbituate- same as Valium- not sure of the hours involved. Xanax is short acting- 12 hours and therefore much more harder to get off.

Does Esgic Plus 3 contain the tylenol with codeine #3 in it as well. You can be WDing from that as well.

Tapering probably is the best way to go....Xanax is definitely not a good trade off though IMHO.

However you may have to find other ways to deal with your anxiety.

No, Esgic Plus does not contain codeine.

I guess one of my biggest questions is.....How do you taper from a random 2-6 capsules a week when you have no set dosage to go by. I mean most people I have read about addicted to this stuff were taking 10-20 caps per day for years. They had something to taper off of. I really don't.

Should I even start to taper off the Esgic now? It's been over 3 days since I've taken it. I've read the half-life for butalbital is an average 35 hours.

I am starting to think that it's my anxiety that's causing the symptoms and perhaps the doc is right and I am not dependent on the Esgic. I'm thinking this because I've been taking the Xanax regularly for 2 days and I am starting to feel my old self again. I know that Xanax strikes fear in many hearts but I am an old pro with it and have always just been able to use when and as needed for no longer than needed and at the lowest dose possible. I've done it many times before I'm sure this time will be no different.

Tapering would be easy for you even if you do take 2-6 capsules a week. Which days do you take them? For example, you can start now by taking 1 less capsule a week and go from there.

The secret to tapering off a long acting drug is to taper to take less when you reach the half life.

Today you take one capsule - skip 2 (36 hours) days- take one capsule - skip 2 days, etc.

After you lessen your intake of one capsule a week...you can try to do less in a week. Tapering off long acting drugs is a very slow process...takes weeks to do it successfully. Unfortunately as well, you do not feel the WDS until a couple of days have passed, right?

For anxiety- I suppose , truly, exercise would be help your anxiety and your WDs by ten fold. You can cut down your caffeine intake as well.

I dunno...I don't have all of the answers but mere suggestions and opinions. Good luck and post if you need help.

Take care. :cool:

You know it could have been the caffine in the pills causing anxiety too. Now that I can pronounce what esgic I have taken that too. For some reason it just clicked. Sorry about that. I dont know what I called fenabarb, but now I know esgic is generic. I never noticed any signs of dependance nor anxiety while taking it. but like I said I never took it if maybe once a month. Maybe your just worrying yourself about the addiction aspect which might have caused the anxiety. Not sure though. Kim

Ya know Kim, that is sort of what I'm thinking.

I am a HORRIBLY anxious person as it is and am no stranger to panic attacks, especially when it comes to my health. If I have a heart palpitation I totally freak out and convince myself I have heart disease which in turn creates more symptoms of heart disease (palpitaions, can't breath, chest pain). Anxiety is a VERY vicious cycle.

I was taking the esgic months before I found out it was a barb. I never knew when I took it or how much I took, and would sometimes go a week or so without it and never thought twice. All I know is I took 56 out of 80 capsules in 3 months time. Now that I know it's addictive and I want to stop taking it, I am wondering if I am creating the "withdrawals" in my sick little anxious head. :) Like I said, everything that I've read points to my safe usage (3x or less a week, not uping your dose, not building tolerence etc.) so I just don't see how I could become dependent on it. Wouldn't I be in withdrawal right now if I was dependent on the Butalbital despite the Xanax?

I am very paranoid about addictive prescription pain killers and sedatives.

I don't even want to take the Xanax, but it is helping immensley with the anxiety. So I started taking it a few days ago and am going to start reducing the dosage in a few more days and hope to be off of that in a little over a week with no ill effects.

We will see.

Looks like there might be a connection there. My neurologist told me that, that is only really for migraines (but I have read that its not great for migraines) everything always contradicts what its for and since I cant take the new drugs like zomig or any drug in that catagory thats what I was given. If you think you might have a problem and you say you usually take 2 at a time I would try taking only 1. Good luck and sounds like the caffine or your own anxiety might be causing the symptoms. Well we know our bodies better than our dr's do so follow your gut instinct and do what feels right for you. Good luck. Kim

if butalbital is a barbituate, it acts on the gaba receptors in your central nervous system. this is exactly what the xanax does. so basically, you are using a drug of the same class to cover the withdrawals. i know barbituates are much stronger than benzos, so you might need the xanax for a few days to get off of the butalbital. be very careful with the xanax. i know you say you have used it many times in the past, and you don't sound like an addict to me. xanax(and all benzos) are only supposed to be used for short term problems, 2-4 weeks. your body can become dependent on these very easily. good luck with your endeavor. :)