I am 35 and just now starting my journey to become pregnant with the help of ART. I don't yet know my doctors recommendations (my husband and I have both been thouroughly tested and so far no reason has been found for our infertility) but have been researching iui and ivf process and am really starting to have a moral dilema regarding unused fertilized embryos! Is anyone else having the same feelings?

I have some of the same issues. We have chosen NOT to do IVF, with the moral issue being only one of our personal problems with it. Please don't get me wrong, I am not against it for other people and am happy for anyone and everyone that it works for!! It's just a choice that my DH and I have made for ourselves.

But, just FYI - when I spoke to my RE about this issue she told me that they could only remove a limited number of eggs and attempt to fertilize only the number that you are comfortable with transferring back in. Therefore leaving no left over embryos and taking away the moral issues. However, this does leave less of a chance that you will get any to fertilize and divide at all. Possibly if they do IVF with ICSI, you would have a better chance of fertilization and cell division - but I am not sure of that answer for sure.

It's something that I prayed about for a long time before the right answer for us came to me. But, like I said before, it was the right answer for us not to go through with IVF - not the right answer for everyone. I know there would be a lot less precious little lives in this world without the wonderful technology that allows us to do IVF - but just not the right answer for us.

I wish you the best of luck with your decision. Even if you are not a very religious person (which I am not) - prayer works if you believe in it!

Baby Dust to all!!

~ravae

So what options does that leave you? I am totally unfamiliar with TTC so I hope I am not wasting your time. Doesnt that just leave you with surrogacy or something?

Some people with left over embryos and moral issues donate the unused embryos to another infertile couple. But maybe that's another moral issue.

I am on my 2WW after doing IVF. Freezing left over embryos that may never get used weighed heavily on my mind and in my heart. My husband and I have been trying for almost 5 years...3 1/2 with our RE. We attempted IUI's with no luck and in my gut I felt if we were to have success we would have to do IVF. I prayed and had my entire family praying for our miracle to happen on its own. We didn't have coverage so we were paying everything our of pocket. I am a huge believer that everything happens for a reason. On day I was looking though our insurance web site and ran across something that told us we had coverage, my husbands company had be bought out but they kept the same carrier. I began e-mailing and found out we did...not much, but at least to attempt one cycle. I brought it to my husband and together decided to try. I started my meds and stilled had moral issues with freezing, but I put it in God's hands. Turns out the Doctor was only able to retrieve 3. Our doctor only transfers 2 so that still left me thinking I may have an extra if they all fertilize. Well I got the call the next day and ONLY 1 of the embryos made it. This isn't at all an easy decision, but it is a decision you and your hubby have to make together. Best of luck to you all, I will keep you in my prayers.

Thanks for sharing your story, It helped to hear other points of view!! What I really need is more information from my RE, I think that I am not going to worry about it until our next appt. when we find out what the RE recommends we do, I at least will be informed enough now to ask the right questions!! Wish you all well!

Wanted to respond and ask how things ended up for you.
I just read this I think if I'm doing this right you wrote this in 2004.. wanting to know your outcome ? :)

I am on my 2WW after doing IVF. Freezing left over embryos that may never get used weighed heavily on my mind and in my heart. My husband and I have been trying for almost 5 years...3 1/2 with our RE. We attempted IUI's with no luck and in my gut I felt if we were to have success we would have to do IVF. I prayed and had my entire family praying for our miracle to happen on its own. We didn't have coverage so we were paying everything our of pocket. I am a huge believer that everything happens for a reason. On day I was looking though our insurance web site and ran across something that told us we had coverage, my husbands company had be bought out but they kept the same carrier. I began e-mailing and found out we did...not much, but at least to attempt one cycle. I brought it to my husband and together decided to try. I started my meds and stilled had moral issues with freezing, but I put it in God's hands. Turns out the Doctor was only able to retrieve 3. Our doctor only transfers 2 so that still left me thinking I may have an extra if they all fertilize. Well I got the call the next day and ONLY 1 of the embryos made it. This isn't at all an easy decision, but it is a decision you and your hubby have to make together. Best of luck to you all, I will keep you in my prayers.

that ended up being a Grade A - divided into 8 cells or more ? I had only 3 that fertilized by day 2.. when I went to have them put in I ended up only with 2 as one did not make it.. and out of the 2 again.. 1 was a grade A cell 8 to 10. and the 2nd happened to be only a 3 cell Grade A but it was not dividing quick enough...

:bouncing:

to answer your question. I am catholic. I don't feel freezing is going to hurt anyone or anything. If down the road you have them and need them - you use them. if not you can always just have them thaw and be discarded.. it's just a cell that's how I'm looking at it.

Thanks for sharing your story, It helped to hear other points of view!! What I really need is more information from my RE, I think that I am not going to worry about it until our next appt. when we find out what the RE recommends we do, I at least will be informed enough now to ask the right questions!! Wish you all well!

I guess you have to really have a lot of faith in the doctors and stuff, but with all this science stuff how do you TRULEY know if they discard them. I mean I am not a conspirator or anything but I got to thinking about it the other day and I was like for goodness sake what if they did some tests on them first or picked it apart or I mean any number of things. I just felt badly cause I had 2 left that we decided against freezing due to the outcome of out cycle. The moral issue kicked in there, it does make everyone a little teary eyed I mean they may be cells but they the do create what you are so badly trying to have. But on our next cycle I am definitely going to freeze our embies because so many FET do work and pocket books whys, and physically it is much better. Even if it does work and you still have frozen embryos down the road I would think if IVF is the only thing that does work for you then it would be great for the sibling end of it.

jak2k2000--the 2004 is when I signed up on this board. I just had my transfer done last Thursday so I am on my 2WW. I will definately share my outcome.

Marie1971,
If I may ask, what is it that you are concerned about? I know you said the unused embryos but what specifically about it? My husband and I have 12 embryos that are now frozen and we have decided, through prayer and a TON of our own research, to select couples to adopt our little babies when we're done having kids. I know that option is not for everyone but the way I see it is I don't want 14 (I'm pregnant with twins now from our first IVF) children and there are so many other women out there that for one reason or another can't have their own and desire to actually "carry". I would much rather have another couple raise a child that my husband and I created than to just kill them. If you decide against embryo adoption or donation than I can certainly see your dilema. I agree with the other posters though, just pray about it and if you believe you will, you'll receive an answer. And remember that you can always only have them take out 2 or 3 eggs, you don't have to rule out IVF altogether.

We too had the same feelings going into IVF. We did our share of research on the internet and discussed at length our limitations with IVF before we even discussed IVF with our RE (but we knew it was our next step). My DH and I made a promise to ourselves that we would give ALL fertilized embryo's a chance of life...they are in fact a part of us, our DNA that is very unique, our potential children and not just a cell to us and so we explained this to our RE. We don't have a problem freezing them for the future...b/c our max for ET is 2 and so we know we may have some embies left to freeze. But we personally do not want any fertilized embryo's discarded, frozen for eternity or donated to science. So our RE is going to be "concervative" in the egg retrieval.
Good luck to you and DH in whichever decision you make!

From my standpoint I have no problem with IVF for several reasons:

1. I have done two IVFs and have not had any left over that were good enough to freeze. Both pregnancies ended in miscarriage so for me the issue is having enough, rather than what to do with all the extras. I would LOVE to have the dilemma of what to do with extras.

2. The main reason for freezing is that a given IVF cycle is twice as likely to fail as to succeed. Frozen embies give you another shot, without the shots (which are the bulk of the expense of IVF). When my first IVF pregnancy failed to double the beta I was heartsick at the thought of going through another egg retrieval. Seriously, this bothered me more than the failure itself. (Due to a onetime back injury I have a high resistance to painkillers and had to be put under the second time around.) Dwelling on these niceties can set you up for more medical risk, time, and expense than necessary.

3. These zygotes would have never had a chance of existing anyway other than through IVF. So when you ponder your moral objections, try to include this question: objectionable in comparison to what, exactly? Nonexistance? By creating them they have a chance at life, their only chance.

4. The problem of extras, as you get into your late 30s, is overblown. Most of us when we get to the point of IVF are no longer great egg producers, and both spouses at that point have a greater chance of passing on a genetic abnormality that will doom the zygote (hopefully early enough to avoid m/c). You will likely have few extras unless you're pretty young. And because they're always getting better at it, many clinics go for quality rather than quantity -- especially now that even a single ET seems to be equally effective for some people.

5. Unused frozen embies can be donated to another woman. I am only interested in pregnancy to carry my own genetic child, otherwise I wil adopt due to my trick back. But I see no possible MORAL objection to donation whatsoever. I can understand EMOTIONAL objections to "losing" the "child" but that's a separate issue.

6. The moral objection to unused embies is the basis for the religious right's War on IVF, so know who you're getting in bed with when you joing in the hand-wringing. Some states are trying to pass laws restricting EVERYONE's rights to medically appropriate reproductive assistance. For example, limiting the number of eggs that can be FERTILIZED. (See Louisiana)

7. A newly developing alternative is to freeze unfertilized eggs. Ask about it!

On the day of the transfer they tell you the condition of the various embies. They must be a certain quality level to qualify for transfer. Others will be discarded if, in the experience of the embryologists, they are doomed. I'm sure those with moral objections to discarding even an obviously doomed embie can have them "thrown in" with the transfer. I personally would avoid this in light of recent research suggesting that multiple embies "compete" in the womb. I would hate the thought that the doomed one somehow could hang in there just long enough to take out a good one. Probably far-fetched but still. (One of mine was "slowing down the division" and probably dying but they threw it in anyway and I wonder...)

Sharon6 - those were extremely well thought out arguments (for lack of a better word) for freezing extra embryos. I especially liked #3..."These zygotes would have never had a chance of existing anyway other than through IVF. So when you ponder your moral objections, try to include this question: objectionable in comparison to what, exactly? Nonexistance? By creating them they have a chance at life, their only chance."

I'm very sorry to hear about the difficulties you are having in conceiving and I wish you all the best in the future!!! ~Baby Dust to All~

One of my girlfriends did IVF and had twins, but had 6 embryos frozen. She dealt with the moral issue, and she and her DH decided to try for all other 6 b/c her RE said that there is a chance that the embies may not make it thru the second round. Sure enough, 3 didn't survive, and they tranfered 3, and I think she's carrying triplets now. It is a chance you take in wondering if they will survive the freezing process.

Another friend told me last night that they are doing genetic testing b/c her DH is a carrier of some disease. They are planning on IVF, then checking to see which ones don't have the illness and transfer those to her. I asked her what they'll do to the ones that's positive for the disease. She said she wasn't sure. Probably donate them to research or toss them. I was a bit surprised at her answer. I think this opens up a whole can of worms of another moral issue- checking to find out which embryos are disease free. What do you think?

Thanks to all who have responded!! Your comments have really help me work thru my issues. I guess my main issue with left over embies is that in my eyes a fertilized egg is a baby and I am not opposed to freezing but would not feel comfortable not using all fertilized eggs.. Many of you suggested donating my embies but, I just can't do that either. So, I guess what I am confortable with is transfering as many as doc w/allow, freezing left overs and promising to use my self in a future cycle and dealing with the consequences, (multiple births, 10 children, etc. :) ) Thanks again to all of you! My dh and I go see doc on the 26th to find out his recomendations, I am hoping that I by some miracle am pregnant (the old fashion way) and don't have to make these hard decissions.

As for "tossing" the ones that have the bad gene, I think it makes a difference what the gene is. If I had, say, four embies and one had cystic fibrosis gene I would not make that one my first choice. But I would implant one that was a carrier.

Some people also use PIGD to make sure they carry a baby who is a tissue match for a family member needing a bone marrow transplant or similar. This is more contraversial but of course I'd do it in a heartbeat, how could a parent do anything less?

It might help to think if it as each embryo competing with its siblings. The ones most likely to thrive will get priority.