len.b
06-24-2006, 05:50 PM
HI ,can anyone help me out ,trying to manage chronic pain 2 herniated disc ,thoracic area,accident was at work 20yrs ago!
in the last ten years i was taking 1600 mgs of codien contin ,200 mgs pills 8 x a day!
Me and doctor are trying different pain killers to control the pain better as I dont get the relief anymore ,
I am trying oxycontin for BP ,and oxycodone for long acting pain killer
here is my problem what dose of oxycodone or how many milligrams would be equivalent to 1600 mgs of slow realeased codiene contin?
to me the dose i am on barely touches the pain,
Just want to live a normal life as much as possible
Please any info or websites to help me understand the amount that i would convert to?
Just tring to get info for me and my doctor for perhaps a better life
or if someone went threw this any advice
Please any help
Quick response would be greatly appreciated
in the last ten years i was taking 1600 mgs of codien contin ,200 mgs pills 8 x a day!
Me and doctor are trying different pain killers to control the pain better as I dont get the relief anymore ,
I am trying oxycontin for BP ,and oxycodone for long acting pain killer
here is my problem what dose of oxycodone or how many milligrams would be equivalent to 1600 mgs of slow realeased codiene contin?
to me the dose i am on barely touches the pain,
Just want to live a normal life as much as possible
Please any info or websites to help me understand the amount that i would convert to?
Just tring to get info for me and my doctor for perhaps a better life
or if someone went threw this any advice
Please any help
Quick response would be greatly appreciated
Sponsor
Chaswick
06-24-2006, 06:07 PM
Hi Len,
I'm not familiar with codeine contin, but the conversion from codeine to oxycodone is about 10 to 1.
So 1600mgs. codeine would convert to 160mgs. oxycodone.
Others should be along shortly to help//Chaz
I'm not familiar with codeine contin, but the conversion from codeine to oxycodone is about 10 to 1.
So 1600mgs. codeine would convert to 160mgs. oxycodone.
Others should be along shortly to help//Chaz
len.b
06-24-2006, 06:45 PM
the codien contin is pure with nothing else in the pill,its a 200 milligram red pill says ""cc"" and other side says 200 its a shape of a capsule long and round
thank you everyone,as i need as much info to take to my doc so i can have control in my life,and not the pain controlling me
I will post back with the amount im on shortly:p
thank you everyone,as i need as much info to take to my doc so i can have control in my life,and not the pain controlling me
I will post back with the amount im on shortly:p
bulletinboard25
06-24-2006, 08:29 PM
I think you meant you are taking Oxycodone for a short-acting (break-through), and OXYCONTIN for your LONG ACTING medicine. Oxycontin is an extended release form of oxycodone. They have the same active ingredient (oxycodone), the oxycontin is just the extended release formula.
So if you were taking 1600mg of codeine, you'd be at 160mg of oxycodone, like someone else said.
You could take Oxycontin 3x a day (best dosing schedule) at 40mg per day (120mg total). It lasts around 8 hours a dose, and most say it's best dosed T.I.D. (or three times a day), and 40mg of Oxycodone as needed for breakthrough pain (you could take the 5mg tabs or 10mg tablets of those).
So if you were taking 1600mg of codeine, you'd be at 160mg of oxycodone, like someone else said.
You could take Oxycontin 3x a day (best dosing schedule) at 40mg per day (120mg total). It lasts around 8 hours a dose, and most say it's best dosed T.I.D. (or three times a day), and 40mg of Oxycodone as needed for breakthrough pain (you could take the 5mg tabs or 10mg tablets of those).
len.b
06-24-2006, 08:53 PM
thank you
my doctor started me off with 10mg twice daily the 5mg for break through pain every 4 hrs,this did not work out.
went back and he uped it a little ,20mg 3 x a day slow release,and 10 mg for BT,
i am still having a tuff time i was hoping this stuff made my day better and could go on with work and regular things as every normal person does
what i did was taken a few more pills and felt like the pain was managed and it was at the 160 mg range,
we tried at first hydromorphone at 2mgs 5 x a day,that did not last 2 days :),we moved on to the oxycodone and oxycontin,its getting better,but this is were i need help last visit to him he suggested to go back to the codiene.
Im trying to find somewhere that i can print out to bring to doctors office to show him that the 160 is a starting place with new meds?
as the codiene just doesnt do the job anymore and im tired of being a guy that doesnt get around much.
this stuff will work just need the right amount
thank you again everyone if anyone has any info that i can bring to doc ,i thank you again
my doctor started me off with 10mg twice daily the 5mg for break through pain every 4 hrs,this did not work out.
went back and he uped it a little ,20mg 3 x a day slow release,and 10 mg for BT,
i am still having a tuff time i was hoping this stuff made my day better and could go on with work and regular things as every normal person does
what i did was taken a few more pills and felt like the pain was managed and it was at the 160 mg range,
we tried at first hydromorphone at 2mgs 5 x a day,that did not last 2 days :),we moved on to the oxycodone and oxycontin,its getting better,but this is were i need help last visit to him he suggested to go back to the codiene.
Im trying to find somewhere that i can print out to bring to doctors office to show him that the 160 is a starting place with new meds?
as the codiene just doesnt do the job anymore and im tired of being a guy that doesnt get around much.
this stuff will work just need the right amount
thank you again everyone if anyone has any info that i can bring to doc ,i thank you again
bulletinboard25
06-24-2006, 09:36 PM
So right now you're on 60mg of Oxycontin, and 10mg for breakthrough?
Hopefully he keeps titrating you up so you get more in that equivalent range.
Hopefully he keeps titrating you up so you get more in that equivalent range.
len.b
06-24-2006, 09:56 PM
Yes I take that and the 10 mg i take every 4 hours,6 total all together 120 mgs total
and when i was taking the codiene contin,he was giving me about 100 T3s every 2 weeks
1600 mgs daily codien contin ,plus the tylenol#3s
thank you all very much
and when i was taking the codiene contin,he was giving me about 100 T3s every 2 weeks
1600 mgs daily codien contin ,plus the tylenol#3s
thank you all very much
Chaswick
06-24-2006, 11:59 PM
Hi Len,
That is a he** of alot of tylenol you were taking daily - I think it is really a good thing to be moving to something else. I assume the T3's were for BT pain? If you have to go back to that he could go to the tylenol 4's yes?
I'd be really careful dosing a new medication. Because we all metabolize medication differently Dr.'s usually, when changing to a different med., will start a patient off at the low end. I've read 50% but I don't know if that is a hard and fast rule.
Sometimes by switching medication you get better coverage with the new med. (hits different receptors) and don't need to take the equivalent. Also, it sounded like you were taking more meds. on your own in order to go to work. If so just be aware that besides being possibly dangerous (if you don't know the way you will react to the new med.), many Dr.'s willbe upset and it could jeapordize your care. I've read that many people seem to be easily accommodated when it comes ot Oxy and can escalate their doses up very quickly.
Dr.'s have equivalant dose convertors in their reference books so I'm sure he looked things up. At least I hope he did!! LOL [REMOVED]
-please read and abide by the posting rules
Good luck//Chaz
That is a he** of alot of tylenol you were taking daily - I think it is really a good thing to be moving to something else. I assume the T3's were for BT pain? If you have to go back to that he could go to the tylenol 4's yes?
I'd be really careful dosing a new medication. Because we all metabolize medication differently Dr.'s usually, when changing to a different med., will start a patient off at the low end. I've read 50% but I don't know if that is a hard and fast rule.
Sometimes by switching medication you get better coverage with the new med. (hits different receptors) and don't need to take the equivalent. Also, it sounded like you were taking more meds. on your own in order to go to work. If so just be aware that besides being possibly dangerous (if you don't know the way you will react to the new med.), many Dr.'s willbe upset and it could jeapordize your care. I've read that many people seem to be easily accommodated when it comes ot Oxy and can escalate their doses up very quickly.
Dr.'s have equivalant dose convertors in their reference books so I'm sure he looked things up. At least I hope he did!! LOL [REMOVED]
-please read and abide by the posting rules
Good luck//Chaz
feelbad
06-25-2006, 11:19 AM
i am jsut a bit confused here regarding the codiene contin?Though I have never heard of that stuff before,i am wondering why you would be taking any slow release type of med at 8 times per day??am I missing something?isn't the idea behind the 'contins' so that you are NOT having to take it through out the day?thats the part tht confuses me,which by the way,is pretty easily done these days,lol.just wondering why thats all.it just doesn't make alot of sense to me.could you please explain??hope you have good luck with the oxy now.thanks,Marcia
mpvt
06-25-2006, 02:46 PM
The whole point of someone being on a slow release pain killer is so they don't have to take any quick release.If your still taking a quick release every 4hours then you need to be re-evaluated and either raise your current slow release dose or put you on a different sr pain killer.Your going to end up damaging your liver and maybe even get addicted if you keep taking that many pills every 4 hours along with your sr pain pills.Be careful and see your doctor asap....Dave:)
Kissa
06-25-2006, 03:26 PM
in the last ten years i was taking 1600 mgs of codien contin ,200 mgs pills 8 x a day!
I agree with the others, something is amiss here. I did some research on "codine contin" and it is a Long Acting medication that is supposed to last 12 hours. I have a hard time believing a doctor would prescribe an LA med in such a manner. I am not doubting you, but this doctor needs seriously assesed in his methods of prescribing.
From what I have read 200 mg of codeine phosphate is equivalent to 20 to 30 mg of morphine sulfate during chronic dosing. So roughly speaking in terms of morphine that's about 160 - 240 mg of morphine (yes I know you are taking oxy, just punching in numbers so someone can equate that back to the oxy). The suggested max dose is 4x's a day for those dying of cancer.
Anyhow, apparently your dosage is much lower than what you were on and hopefully your doctor will titrate you up appropriately and additionally actually prescibe the medication in the manner in which is is supposed to be used in terms of the LA medication.
I agree with the others, something is amiss here. I did some research on "codine contin" and it is a Long Acting medication that is supposed to last 12 hours. I have a hard time believing a doctor would prescribe an LA med in such a manner. I am not doubting you, but this doctor needs seriously assesed in his methods of prescribing.
From what I have read 200 mg of codeine phosphate is equivalent to 20 to 30 mg of morphine sulfate during chronic dosing. So roughly speaking in terms of morphine that's about 160 - 240 mg of morphine (yes I know you are taking oxy, just punching in numbers so someone can equate that back to the oxy). The suggested max dose is 4x's a day for those dying of cancer.
Anyhow, apparently your dosage is much lower than what you were on and hopefully your doctor will titrate you up appropriately and additionally actually prescibe the medication in the manner in which is is supposed to be used in terms of the LA medication.
Blasterboy
06-25-2006, 04:58 PM
Codeine Contin must be rough on the stomach. I think you said it's staight, so I presume that's without tylonal; but what an unusual drug, maybe you're in Canada or Australia or something like that as I've never heard anyone talk about that drug on these boards. It's certainly sounds better that you're moving across to the Oxy especially the long acting. This is a much more stable way to treat pain. I find that the doses last between 6 to 10 hours. and take 3 doses a day. It's trial and error at 1st.
Welcome to the boards also, I hope you find the answers and ongoing support that you're looking for.
Welcome to the boards also, I hope you find the answers and ongoing support that you're looking for.
Chaswick
06-26-2006, 01:02 AM
The codeine contin plus 7-8 T3's a day would actually take you up to about 1800mgs. a day.
I know that there is no ceiling effect for opioids, but I've also read that codiene has a ceiling effect at 300=600mg/po.
Regardless I think most agree you will be better off on something else!!
Good luck//Chaz
I know that there is no ceiling effect for opioids, but I've also read that codiene has a ceiling effect at 300=600mg/po.
Regardless I think most agree you will be better off on something else!!
Good luck//Chaz
len.b
06-26-2006, 02:38 PM
--Removed--
Ok still having problems need help,doctor did say we can try something knew wich was a few months back and as of 1 month ago we tried hydromorphone 2mlg 5 x a day wich did not help any bit went threw them like nothing went back and told him then we started oxycodone and BT meds oxycontin 10mgs and 5 mgs,did not work ,then we upped it3x 20 mgs oxycodone and every 4 hrs 10mgs oxycontin.
I need help because this aint working neither :( atleast with the codiene contin the pain was a little dull
2 herniated discs thoracic spine work related
carpal tunnel both wrists failed surgerys work related
also groin problem major pain in some tuby thing that attaches to testicle!
I am tired of the pain its been a long time with these problems
so again i upped my meds and found a comfort in my dose wich is alot higher then i am on, i guess i am going to be put back on my old meds codien contin 200 mgs 8x a day,my guess and then go threw the old grind again,work then lay down and dont move till next day!
I say it would take about 180 mgs of oxycodone to have a better day and be family friendly,and do normal things
What is so powerfull about this codien contin stuff that i need doses like these is this out of the norm?
last resort is there anything that i can ask my doctor to try out so that i can be a able body
thanks for letting me vent a bit i guess :)
this is frustrating
thank again everyone
Ok still having problems need help,doctor did say we can try something knew wich was a few months back and as of 1 month ago we tried hydromorphone 2mlg 5 x a day wich did not help any bit went threw them like nothing went back and told him then we started oxycodone and BT meds oxycontin 10mgs and 5 mgs,did not work ,then we upped it3x 20 mgs oxycodone and every 4 hrs 10mgs oxycontin.
I need help because this aint working neither :( atleast with the codiene contin the pain was a little dull
2 herniated discs thoracic spine work related
carpal tunnel both wrists failed surgerys work related
also groin problem major pain in some tuby thing that attaches to testicle!
I am tired of the pain its been a long time with these problems
so again i upped my meds and found a comfort in my dose wich is alot higher then i am on, i guess i am going to be put back on my old meds codien contin 200 mgs 8x a day,my guess and then go threw the old grind again,work then lay down and dont move till next day!
I say it would take about 180 mgs of oxycodone to have a better day and be family friendly,and do normal things
What is so powerfull about this codien contin stuff that i need doses like these is this out of the norm?
last resort is there anything that i can ask my doctor to try out so that i can be a able body
thanks for letting me vent a bit i guess :)
this is frustrating
thank again everyone
bulletinboard25
06-26-2006, 03:22 PM
then we upped it3x 20 mgs oxycodone and every 4 hrs 10mgs oxycontin.
I think you've got to have that backwards. I would think your Oxycontin would be the 20mg 3x a day and the oxycodone short acting would be the every 4 hours.
I think you're getting your meds confused.
The Oxycontin you have is probably the generic and says something like Oxycontin ER.
If your doctor is prescribing that way, color me very confused... it's definitely a backwards way of prescribing medicine.
I think you've got to have that backwards. I would think your Oxycontin would be the 20mg 3x a day and the oxycodone short acting would be the every 4 hours.
I think you're getting your meds confused.
The Oxycontin you have is probably the generic and says something like Oxycontin ER.
If your doctor is prescribing that way, color me very confused... it's definitely a backwards way of prescribing medicine.
len.b
06-26-2006, 04:10 PM
your right sorry :)
Chaswick
06-26-2006, 05:07 PM
Hey Len,
The reasonyou need such a high dose of Oxycontin is because your dose of codeine is - at least in my experience - many times higher than anything I've ever seen. So to convert that to anything you are going to end up with a high dose.
If it were me, I would ask the Dr. to try Morphine. I'm not sure if you have tried that before. If you do a dose comparison, start at about half of that dose and maybe use T4's, which you have confidence in, as BT to start. Morphine -long acting - is called Avinza, Kadian or MS Contin.
The problem you may run into is that because your codeine is so high your Dr. may be reluctant to start you on a high dose of morphine or any other med.. The conversion is around 400mgs.. He might start you on half of that and see how you do I don't know.
The other one you might try is methadone. It has been a lifesaver for many chronic pain paitients and is becoming less controversial.
Good luck//Chaz
The reasonyou need such a high dose of Oxycontin is because your dose of codeine is - at least in my experience - many times higher than anything I've ever seen. So to convert that to anything you are going to end up with a high dose.
If it were me, I would ask the Dr. to try Morphine. I'm not sure if you have tried that before. If you do a dose comparison, start at about half of that dose and maybe use T4's, which you have confidence in, as BT to start. Morphine -long acting - is called Avinza, Kadian or MS Contin.
The problem you may run into is that because your codeine is so high your Dr. may be reluctant to start you on a high dose of morphine or any other med.. The conversion is around 400mgs.. He might start you on half of that and see how you do I don't know.
The other one you might try is methadone. It has been a lifesaver for many chronic pain paitients and is becoming less controversial.
Good luck//Chaz
feelbad
06-27-2006, 09:40 AM
Hey len,just a thought here but you mentioned that you did indeed find some better relief at a higher dose of the oxycontin that you are on that was higher than the doc Rxed.just wondering what that dose was??even tho you really shouldn't be upping any doses without your docs approval,i am curious as to what this was,since it appeared to actually work for you?
also,i still don't quite understand just why your doc would Rx a long acting med at 8xs a day?did he ever explain his reasoning to you on this?i do think that by him Rxing your codiene this way is the biggest reason that you are having the types of problems with the oxycontin.since the oxy actually worked for you at a higher dose,maybe you should stick with this med til you are titrated up a bit more?
i know when I was first started on oxycontin,it took many many weeks of adjustments til we finally arrived at a does that actually had a good effect on my pain.for me,that was just bringing my screaming ten down to around 7-8.tho i have been actually shooting for a 5.unfortunetly the oxy does not work on my worst form of pain,the dreaded neuropathic crap.but it is working on my other three pain generators so we like it for that.
the thing is,with any of the long acting type pain meds,you have to give it time and constant adjustments til you find the right dose for your particular type of pain.i found the right one at 60-60-60 and was able to stay on that for almost two years before actually needing a raise due to an injury.
this is the biggest difference between trying the short acting vs the long acting.it just takes much more time.but I do think since you did manage to find that relief,once you know that the oxycontin actually works at some point,taking more time just to maybe get to that point would definitely be worth it for you in the long run,vs going with a totally different med right away.you just have to give it some time.just a thought.good luck len,Marcia
also,i still don't quite understand just why your doc would Rx a long acting med at 8xs a day?did he ever explain his reasoning to you on this?i do think that by him Rxing your codiene this way is the biggest reason that you are having the types of problems with the oxycontin.since the oxy actually worked for you at a higher dose,maybe you should stick with this med til you are titrated up a bit more?
i know when I was first started on oxycontin,it took many many weeks of adjustments til we finally arrived at a does that actually had a good effect on my pain.for me,that was just bringing my screaming ten down to around 7-8.tho i have been actually shooting for a 5.unfortunetly the oxy does not work on my worst form of pain,the dreaded neuropathic crap.but it is working on my other three pain generators so we like it for that.
the thing is,with any of the long acting type pain meds,you have to give it time and constant adjustments til you find the right dose for your particular type of pain.i found the right one at 60-60-60 and was able to stay on that for almost two years before actually needing a raise due to an injury.
this is the biggest difference between trying the short acting vs the long acting.it just takes much more time.but I do think since you did manage to find that relief,once you know that the oxycontin actually works at some point,taking more time just to maybe get to that point would definitely be worth it for you in the long run,vs going with a totally different med right away.you just have to give it some time.just a thought.good luck len,Marcia
len.b
06-27-2006, 12:11 PM
you are right i should not put the dose up on my own but it was almost a month trying these new meds and when your in pain again for that amount of time ,it just cant be tolerated. what i figure was instead of trying and trying to see what works i might as well find out !
so i tried more because at night i cant sleep had to take some meds just to sleep feeling way down legs where restless,these meds would wear off in a couple hours ,
atleast this way i can tell the doctor what worked instead of losing alot time doing nothing,
80 mgs 3x a day kept me feeling like a normal person, plus qaulity time threw out the day. i did more family things in the last week then i did in the past 5 yrs :)
I really tried to see if this can work with the doses and it wont,
1600 mgs of codien contin,plus t3s,i wanted this to work but if doctor figures this is to much i guess i go back to the codien wich i am hoping i do not
the oxy did help for the pain better as alot of the burning went away, in my back wich is awesome and other pain dulled out,but this was at the amount i tried
today i go see my doc and i am worried that i cant continue this way i hope,
for the sake of my life style i can carry on ,
just wished the dose i was given worked so i dont have to go back and say again didnt work!!
gets frustrating
thanks alot everyone this is a great place to be involved with,ppl have been great
any last words of what i can tell my doctor
tring to beat the 1600 mgs codien contin daily for better pain control
ps, my kids love who i was in the last week and my family has seen me more involved with other things ,and noticed a smile more often on my face.
so i tried more because at night i cant sleep had to take some meds just to sleep feeling way down legs where restless,these meds would wear off in a couple hours ,
atleast this way i can tell the doctor what worked instead of losing alot time doing nothing,
80 mgs 3x a day kept me feeling like a normal person, plus qaulity time threw out the day. i did more family things in the last week then i did in the past 5 yrs :)
I really tried to see if this can work with the doses and it wont,
1600 mgs of codien contin,plus t3s,i wanted this to work but if doctor figures this is to much i guess i go back to the codien wich i am hoping i do not
the oxy did help for the pain better as alot of the burning went away, in my back wich is awesome and other pain dulled out,but this was at the amount i tried
today i go see my doc and i am worried that i cant continue this way i hope,
for the sake of my life style i can carry on ,
just wished the dose i was given worked so i dont have to go back and say again didnt work!!
gets frustrating
thanks alot everyone this is a great place to be involved with,ppl have been great
any last words of what i can tell my doctor
tring to beat the 1600 mgs codien contin daily for better pain control
ps, my kids love who i was in the last week and my family has seen me more involved with other things ,and noticed a smile more often on my face.
BrittleBones
06-28-2006, 09:16 AM
Hi Len - I can hear the frustration written in your post! I wanted to add my 2 cents worth as well. Chaz has a great idea when he mentions the Methadone. I had a very long history of taking all kinds of codeine type drugs, with and without tylenol. When itching became a huge problem I was switched to short acting oxycodone with tylenol (Percocet) and, once again, my tolerance became so high that the amount of tylenol in the Percocet would have probably killed me if I hadn't stopped and changed to just plain oxycodone. But my tolerance continued to climb and the number of mlg's. I needed just to take a small bite out of my pain was not an amount that any doctor was willing to write. So on to the ms-contin and oxycontin, etc., the Duragesic patch, Actiq lolipops, you name it, and I think I tried it. But...what finally brought me relief was Methadone!!!:) For the first time in my life I had found a drug that gave me no euphoria, no altered state of being (other than the sleepiness that I felt until my body adjusted to the drug) just pain relief! I don't know how your doc feels about methadone as a pain medication, but I hope that you will do some research about the drug and perhaps talk to some other folks here on the board about the pros and cons. There are certainly people who will tell you they think it is the worst drug ever made/discovered.....but some of those folks have never even taken it. But then there are others who have had a similar experience as my own. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the highest level of pain relief that is safely available to you Len! All the best - KathyMac