murphy65
07-27-2006, 07:41 PM
I have been on all kinds of pain medication but mainly on vicoden the last 5yrs. I hate the ups and downs of vicodin. I take 8-7.5/325 a day. I am going to the diamond headache clinic the second week of August to try and get to the bottom of my neck/back pain and daily headaches. They suspect chiari malformation. My question is my regular doc started me on avinza 60mg along with the vicoden. I like the avinza since it helps with my pain and is constant without the ups and downs of vicoden but I'm scared at the same time to be dependent on it and then have the doc I'm going to change things. I know I can taper down the vicoden if I absoulutely have to and I know what to expect as far as feeling crappy from dropping the dose. I don't know what to expect with the avinza if they would want me to stop it. I don't see ever being able to be without pain meds but just need some encouragement not to be afraid of the avinza. Anybody with experience with avinza please let me know what to expect. Thanks
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Monty44
07-28-2006, 06:03 PM
I've been taking Avinza for two years now. My only complaint is the constipation. I'd rather keep my pain level in check than worry about being "regular". As far as being dependent - you either need it and therefor are dependent or you don't need it and are addicted.
murphy65
07-28-2006, 07:14 PM
I definately need it and it helps tremendously with my pain. I guess I'm in denial. Every time I find something that helps with the pain I think I am cured and should quit taking it. I have had some constipation but nothing bad. Thanks. Have you had any trouble with tolerance with avinza. Have you had to up the dose any in the 2 years you have been on it.
zach016
07-29-2006, 10:45 AM
Hi Murphy,
Have you talked to the Diamond Headache Clinic to see what they would suggest? I know they are very anti-opiate.
Good luck there, I look forward to hearing what they have to say to you!!
zach
Have you talked to the Diamond Headache Clinic to see what they would suggest? I know they are very anti-opiate.
Good luck there, I look forward to hearing what they have to say to you!!
zach
Shoreline
07-29-2006, 11:06 AM
Hey Murph, I've heard the same thing about the diamond clinic as far as their use of opiates, but that was 3 years ago. Everytime a new medical director comes on board often policies change. I've seen it happen at local PM clincs that have gone from not using opiates to using them selectively to using them on many patients. It just depends on the new medical directors position on opiates. However when a major policy change occurs because of differenrt beliefs from the new medical director, other docs and staff that won't get on board with wide spread use of opiates have large turnovers. Just because the medical director is comfortable using LA mopiates doesn't mean that every doc and NP or PA is going to stay on and instantly change their beliefs about the use of opiates. I they have run the place with a fairly high success rate for the last 10 years without making every patient dependnet on opiates, the docs that have been there that long aren't going to instantly change their POV on the use of opiates.
So what they offered 3 years ago, may be very different from what they offer now. If the new staff hapens to be apposed to the use of opiates, there first goal is to get you off them. It's kind of tough to learn new techniques and try new methods that don't offfer the imediate and level of relief that opiates do why your going through withdrawal.
MY only concern is that if you go to the clinic and they don't use opiates, It would be much eaasier to taper down the Vicodin fairly quickly rather than trying to taper off Long acting morphine. If it were me, and there was some way to continue your old med regemin untill you go to the clinic I would shoot for that. Now isn't the greatest time to switch your protocol knowing it's likely goingto be switched again in 3 weeks. Those 3 weeks may give you enough time to significanlt reduce your Vicodin use where 3 weeks is enough time to start to develop dependence on round the clock morphine.
Take care, Dave
So what they offered 3 years ago, may be very different from what they offer now. If the new staff hapens to be apposed to the use of opiates, there first goal is to get you off them. It's kind of tough to learn new techniques and try new methods that don't offfer the imediate and level of relief that opiates do why your going through withdrawal.
MY only concern is that if you go to the clinic and they don't use opiates, It would be much eaasier to taper down the Vicodin fairly quickly rather than trying to taper off Long acting morphine. If it were me, and there was some way to continue your old med regemin untill you go to the clinic I would shoot for that. Now isn't the greatest time to switch your protocol knowing it's likely goingto be switched again in 3 weeks. Those 3 weeks may give you enough time to significanlt reduce your Vicodin use where 3 weeks is enough time to start to develop dependence on round the clock morphine.
Take care, Dave
zach016
07-29-2006, 01:54 PM
Hi Dave,
You make some excellent points (as usual).
I've talked to a few h/a patients that have gone to the Diamond Clinic and the latest one (about 11 months ago) was put in hospital and detoxed off of the morphine and fent. (Kadian and Actiq) she was taking and I don't remember if they switched her from Ativan to something else and started a taper or just tapered from Ativan.
Since it is run by Dr. Diamond and he is quite firm in his beliefs, I wonder if they will ever come around to being more open minded when it comes to opioids. I'm very much a believer in what you have written about using them AFTER exhausting every other option, but feel that there comes a time when they can improve a persons life big-time.
I've never considered going to Diamond, but have asked for information at other clinics and some state right on the first application sheet that they don't accept patients that are taking even tylenol #3's, so if it were me, I'd call them and run that question by them. You are right, you can't expect to get a whole lot out of going there if you are trying to detox off of morphine (or Vicodan) while trying to learn new techniques.
The problem I think we are seeing more, now that there is such an increase in PM Dr.'s, is that patients are being given stronger pain medications earlier in their treatment and that is doing them no favor at all.
If someone goes from taking tylenol *1 2 or 3* to MSIR, it works (for most) SO much better than anything they have tried and once that happens the motivation for trying the myriad of meds. and other techniques is diluted or gone. It's so easy just to pop a couple MSIR and carry-on.
The best h/a Dr. I've seen who Rx the major pain meds. but calls them an 'end of the line' treatment is Dr. Robbins in Chicago (Northbrook Ill.). The information that he freely gives out is second to none!
Nice reading your response!
Zach
You make some excellent points (as usual).
I've talked to a few h/a patients that have gone to the Diamond Clinic and the latest one (about 11 months ago) was put in hospital and detoxed off of the morphine and fent. (Kadian and Actiq) she was taking and I don't remember if they switched her from Ativan to something else and started a taper or just tapered from Ativan.
Since it is run by Dr. Diamond and he is quite firm in his beliefs, I wonder if they will ever come around to being more open minded when it comes to opioids. I'm very much a believer in what you have written about using them AFTER exhausting every other option, but feel that there comes a time when they can improve a persons life big-time.
I've never considered going to Diamond, but have asked for information at other clinics and some state right on the first application sheet that they don't accept patients that are taking even tylenol #3's, so if it were me, I'd call them and run that question by them. You are right, you can't expect to get a whole lot out of going there if you are trying to detox off of morphine (or Vicodan) while trying to learn new techniques.
The problem I think we are seeing more, now that there is such an increase in PM Dr.'s, is that patients are being given stronger pain medications earlier in their treatment and that is doing them no favor at all.
If someone goes from taking tylenol *1 2 or 3* to MSIR, it works (for most) SO much better than anything they have tried and once that happens the motivation for trying the myriad of meds. and other techniques is diluted or gone. It's so easy just to pop a couple MSIR and carry-on.
The best h/a Dr. I've seen who Rx the major pain meds. but calls them an 'end of the line' treatment is Dr. Robbins in Chicago (Northbrook Ill.). The information that he freely gives out is second to none!
Nice reading your response!
Zach
murphy65
07-29-2006, 11:09 PM
pain medication is the only thing that has helped me stay sane. I've had worse problems mentally and physically from antidepressents and so called non addictive medications. I've been through the ringer of tests and therapies and meds and I'm not going to go through the withdrawls just to start over with the try this and if it don't work will try this. I think I will call Monday and get some things straight before I get myself into something I'll regret. Thanks for the help.
Murph
Also I started with motrin and tore my stomach up. Went to a/d's along with ultram(which was a living nightmare to get off of. Then began to go through neurontin,depakote,all the migraine meds,fioricet,duragesic patch, demerol, etc.
Murph
Also I started with motrin and tore my stomach up. Went to a/d's along with ultram(which was a living nightmare to get off of. Then began to go through neurontin,depakote,all the migraine meds,fioricet,duragesic patch, demerol, etc.
zach016
07-30-2006, 02:16 PM
Hi Murphy,
It sounds like you have been looking for answers for a long time. There does come a time when your focus has to shift from trying to prevent the migraines from happening (unsuccessfully) to controlling the pain.
Please let us/me know what the clinic says to you when you call them!
Good luck..........zach
It sounds like you have been looking for answers for a long time. There does come a time when your focus has to shift from trying to prevent the migraines from happening (unsuccessfully) to controlling the pain.
Please let us/me know what the clinic says to you when you call them!
Good luck..........zach
murphy65
07-30-2006, 03:37 PM
I'll let you know. I am going to talk to them first thing tomorrow morning. I have lost pretty much all faith in the medical field the last 5-6 yrs. I am a lineman for an electric co. and if I treated people when they have electrical problems at homes and businesses like doctors have treated me I would have the easiest job in the world. I would tell them that when the power went off it was just in their head. Take an antidepressant and the power will come back on. If it doesn't come back on in 2 weeks call me.
ozzybug
07-30-2006, 03:48 PM
Hey Murphy-
I know this is frustrating, enfuriating (sp?), confusing and really tough to deal with. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with this. You really need answers, espcially since this is about you and your pain.
Good luck in getting some concrete answers tomorrow. If you don't, then don't give up the search for answers. I'm the kind of person who wants answers too because it helps me feel better equipped to deal with any situation. It also helps me make informed decisions on what step to take next.
Take care, and let us know what you find out.
Lezlee
I know this is frustrating, enfuriating (sp?), confusing and really tough to deal with. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with this. You really need answers, espcially since this is about you and your pain.
Good luck in getting some concrete answers tomorrow. If you don't, then don't give up the search for answers. I'm the kind of person who wants answers too because it helps me feel better equipped to deal with any situation. It also helps me make informed decisions on what step to take next.
Take care, and let us know what you find out.
Lezlee
murphy65
07-30-2006, 08:12 PM
Hey Murphy-
I know this is frustrating, enfuriating (sp?), confusing and really tough to deal with. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with this. You really need answers, espcially since this is about you and your pain.
Good luck in getting some concrete answers tomorrow. If you don't, then don't give up the search for answers. I'm the kind of person who wants answers too because it helps me feel better equipped to deal with any situation. It also helps me make informed decisions on what step to take next.
Take care, and let us know what you find out.
Lezlee
Thank you. Thank you very much.
I know this is frustrating, enfuriating (sp?), confusing and really tough to deal with. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with this. You really need answers, espcially since this is about you and your pain.
Good luck in getting some concrete answers tomorrow. If you don't, then don't give up the search for answers. I'm the kind of person who wants answers too because it helps me feel better equipped to deal with any situation. It also helps me make informed decisions on what step to take next.
Take care, and let us know what you find out.
Lezlee
Thank you. Thank you very much.