About 4-5 weeks ago i started having these "attacks" of severe pain on my right side under my breast area. I had several in a two week period or so. The pain came on slowly and escalated to the point that I would be wriggling in my seat or bed. They lasted from 45min up to 3 hrs. the last one. The pain was like a stabbing sharp pain and came sortof in waves or like throbbing during the episodes. It also hurts out my back near my shoulder bLade. Afther the 3rd or 4th episode I had a doctors appt. My doc said "NO" when I asked if it could be my gall bladder, she said since I had an ultrasound 9 Mths ago and no stones were present then, it couldn't be my gb. All she wants to do is rule out my heart. Her reasons are that i am on birth control (nuvaring) age 31 and i smoke. She had me do a CT SCAN - which came back normal - 2 EKG'S normal as well- and I met with a cardiologist last week and he thinks the symptoms are atypical for heart but they are going to do and echo test and a stress test over the next two weeks "JUST IN CASE". This is frustrating me because I work out all the time, no cardio probs from what i can tell and I just don't think its my heart. But any time you say "chest pain" docs panic and "cover their bases" Anyway, now I haven't had an attack since 10/2, about 2 weeks. But I still have little twinges now and then almost every day??? I Haven't had any bad gas or nausea throughout and I have always had diarrhea probs even before this... So do you guys think this is my GB?? Did you ever go for lengths of time without an attack?? Or was this something else and its fading away?? I am meeting with my main doc Friday and since I haven't had a full on attack since 2 weeks, I feel somewhat funny to be goin to the doctor, for what seems like "False Alarm?!?!?!? PLEASE GIVE ANY ADVICE OR TIPS ON WHAT TO ASK DOC, OR WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN MY SYMPTOMS, anything at all!!! THANKS A BUNCH!!!

Your pain type and location sound like you may have been passing a gallstone. I don't know why your doctor wouldn't think it could not be gallstones since your ultrasound was good 7 months ago. Does that mean you can't develop gallstones over a 7 month period? I really don't know but it seems like you could. Also, maybe the ultrasound missed possible stones at that time (assuming thats what you have). There are many cases where it takes more than one ultrasound to find the gallstones.

A friend of mine had an experience just like yours. He went to the doctor and was told that he probably passed a small stone. He had lost a good bit of weight through dieting and quick weight loss can cause stone formation. Anyway, he mentioned that he didn't feel quite right for several weeks after his bad attack. He also didn't have any nausea or stool change. Several weeks later after his attack, he was 100% okay.

If your doctor suspects heart, I would have the tests performed just in case. The doctors know a lot more than me so I would heed to the doc's orders. I would also ask for another ultrasound if you feel that it may still be your gallbladder. I would first wait to see if you are in fact getting better since you haven't had an attack in two weeks. I would ask the doctor why would it couldnt possible that you may have passed a stone. Good luck with your tests.

It sounds like your gall bladder to me. I went to the emergency room 9 times in one year, every time I had an "attack" basically the same symptoms you are describing. They would blame it on my endomitriosis and give me darvocets and an antibiotic. Like you said, sometimes you go a few weeks without a very severe attack, I was having at least one bad one a month. My doctor said the same thing, that it wasn't my gb. They did tests on my heart as well and everything came back fine. Finally one day I had the worst attack yet that lasted a few hours. That time I really did think I was having a heart attack or something, the pain was so intense. I went back to the ER and saw someone I hadn't seen before. I asked her to somehow check my gallbladder. She did a simple blood test, my wbc's were sky high and I had to have emergency surgery to remove my gall bladder that day. Doctor's are smart, but sometimes we know our own bodies best. I would go on with the tests she wants but maintain that it could be your gall bladder. Don't let it go! Good luck! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by hmm419 (edited 10-15-2003).]

I have a gnawing sometimes achy sore pan underneath my breast on the right side that sometimes goes to my back in my shoulder blade.I will soon be checked for gall bladder problems with a hida scan. had an ultrasound done which showed nothing amiss.I have since went to another gastro doc the one that recommende the hida scan.I told him i had an ultrasound done.He said that the ultrasound is not necessarily the best test to determine gall bladder problems.He also said that just because no gall stones showed up on the ultrasound doesnt mean that there are no gall bladder problems.He said there can be other abnormalities of the gall bladder.Are you seeing a gastro doc or just a GP?

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Thanks guys for your advice... Well I went to my doc today for a followup, she is a gp not a specialist. She said since my ct scan came back ok and I haven't had a major attack since 2 wks (even though i feel twinges, some sharp everyday) She suggested asthma was a thought she had ??What the heck..?? and or since I have fiber cystic breast somewhat that could have been it too.... and then she's like... since the ct is ok... and was done with me.. I brought my husband with me and he's like, wait a minute... could you see the gallbladder on the ct, she said no. and we discussed how i have a family history of gb probs which i found out recently since the attacks... again she tried to discount it since i had an ultrasound back in december with no stones present... then i asked if there could be other possibilities with the gb besides stones and would it show up... anyways she then reluctantly set us up with the ultrasound and seemed kinda miffed?? then as she walked to the nurse station to check us out and order the test, she's like by the way when is the last time you had blood work, i said forever ago.... so she said that was another way to check and i got those labs done today too...?? Hello?!?! I feel like she is not on top of things... I think I am changing docs... At least we are getting the blood and ultrasound even though it was our prodding to get them... and i might find something out or atleast rule out others.... right?! i never go to the doc hardly and these attacks were so severe i thought about the emergency room even... but i haven't had one for 2 wks... but it is important to know what is going on before things get worse.... oh well forgive me for venting... we'll see what the results are.... thnks again for your info....

It's nice to hear that your ct was clear. Also good to hear that you will be getting more tests. Your doctor sounds like most doctors I know. They come up with their dx and almost won't consider your problem being something else unless you bring up other possible things that it could be. It's like they work inside the box. I need a doc that works outside the box meaning he would look at all possible causes and not just say everything is okay because one test comes back okay. Hopefully you will have nothing that requires medication and hopefully you are on the road to final recovery since you say all you have now are occasional twinges. Good luck!

I'm 40 yrs. old, 160 lbs. I've been having mild attacks (sharp pain that makes me stop for a time and put light pressure to the area)in the left and right quadrants of the upper abdominal region. I've had this problem for 2 yrs. now and have had 3 major attacks (puts me on the ground clutching for at least 30 minutes and light headed. I am now unemployed and paying out of pocket for everything. I've had the ultrasound which showed thick walls to the gall bladder. I've next had the HIDA/CCK scan done, very painful with the injection. The results were an enjection fraction of 19.89% and cystic duct patency without evidence of acute cholecystitis. The doctor now has me on a diet of low fat, caffeine, sugar, and spicy foods for 2 weeks. With the mild pain every day now, I will not be able to function at a job. I would have thought from the scan they would say the gall bladder is bad and have it removed? Am I just wasting my savings go back and forth to doctors (3 so far in the last year)?

Hi there - sure sounds like gall bladder to me. In '96, I started having vague upper right quadrant pain and nausea, which over time worsened to daily attacks of knife-sharp stabbing agony. My ultrasounds (2) and 2 hida scans were considered "normal" but my surgeon knew it was my GB and after a 2nd opinion I had it out. I suffered with severe debilitating attacks for about 6 months before something was done.

So don't let the doctor tell you your tests are "normal" and therefore it's not the GB. The surgeon told me that when he opened me up he could see that mine was severely inflamed and covered in scar tissue. No stones, but the severe inflamation was causing all my problems. The right upper quadrant pain for the most part is gone - sometimes vague pains will occur in that area, but usually that's related to trapped gas.

So keep pushing your doc for an answer or get a 2nd opinion. Medical tests are not foolproof and may not actually pinpoint the problem.

Good luck and keep us posted,
Katie G

Hi,

I too cannot believe that your doctor totally dismissed your gallbladder with your symptoms you are having.
Like me, even if you don't have stones, you can have a gallbladder that does not function properly which will exhibit the same symptoms. The ONLY test to verify this is called a HIDA scan with CCK injection. This test shows the percentage at which your gallbladder functions. The normal function is 35-40%, mine is at 11.2%. I now have an appointment with a surgeon tomorrow as it seems the treatment option is the same...removal of the gallbladder.
I would definitely suggest for you to be proacvtive with your doctors and ask for this test to be ordered.

Good Luck,
Heni

These healthboards are great. I am so glad to get REAL LIFE feedback and advice from everyone. It gives a much better perspective on everything.
Of course, AFTER my appt. on Friday, later that afternoon I had a pretty mildy-severe attack again that lasted about 2-3 hrs, so it definitely hasn't gone away. I am looking for a new doctor as we speak, meanwhile I am scheduled for the ultrasound and waiting on bloodtest results. When I see the new doctor I am going to (depending on what all the test results are) ask about the Hida scan and see what they have to say about everything. Wish me luck finding someone good!! I'll keep everyone posted.... Thanks again for the info...

[This message has been edited by cstarz7721 (edited 10-20-2003).]

Sure sounds like your gallbladder to me! Those stabbing pains you mention, coming in waves, sound exactly like what I had out of the blue several months ago.

I had recently had a colonoscopy which was fine, so went back to that same gastroenterologist and told him my story.

My pains were located initially in mid to upper abdomen (just above navel) and then increased, covering the entire abdomen. My abdomen was very "hard" and tender to the touch, too, but I had NO other symptoms. This fun lasted nearly three hours, during which I felt I needed to be active and moving around so tried walking it off (didn't work) and finally did laundry when it seemed like it at least wasn't getting any worse. After about three hours the whole episode just stopped, as though it had never happened. Assuming it was a stone, it PASSED the area it was trying to go through (probably into small intestine) OR it fell back into the GB, as is often the case.

After hearing my story, the gastro guy ordered up ultrasound and BINGO, gallstones, readily visible on the films!!! I had a HIDA scan a week later to see how the GB was functioning and was told "it's fine!" by the radiologist.

Freaked out, I immediately put myself on a low carb, low sugar, low(er) fat diet and lost a bunch of weight. My regular old internist was pleased and said "you've put yourself on the gallbladder diet!" I knew from reading up on the GB on the internet that most carbs turn into sugar in the liver and sugar helps create most of those stones.

I am lucky that so far my gallbladder is evidently not terribly diseased or inflamed, nor has the wall "thickened," so if I eat fairly well and not too much I am spared most discomfort. Of course, none of this has anything to do with passing a stone, which is probably what happened to me the day of the pain incident. I think you, too, are passing stones. The pain and suffering from a bad GB is not typical of what you (or I) described, pain-wise.

Normal GB problems cause nausea, vomiting, on and off soreness/pains in the area of the GB (upper right quadrant) and around the back, under the right shoulder blade. This gets worse and worse until finally surgery is necessary. People have lots of gas, belching, diarrhea, etc.

I have the opposite problem from some people here; my gastro guy is in a huge hurry for me to see a surgeon and have the surgery; my internist and cardiologist (I have a benign arrythmia) say "you can hold off -- you're not really all that sick!"

There are over 22 million people with gallstones in the U.S. today. Most don't know they HAVE stones. A fraction of them suffer and find out they actually HAVE stones and/or a diseased GB. You don't have to have stones to have disease.

Another fraction of the 22 million only have ONE stone passing attack in their lifetime OR just a FEW stone passings. They don't have the typical illness and chronic pain that most suffer with diseased/malfunctioning GB.

Believe me, if/when I get worse and am in lots of pain or feel sick, I will definitely have the surgery. You are correct that you must keep on top of this and if need be, change doctors, until you find one who will really listen to you. It sure doesn't sound like ANYTHING except your GB to me.

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out!

Right, When I have an attack they are so severe and then after they stop as if nothing ever happened and I'm fine. I don't feel sick, no eating difficulties, no nausea, in between... But thats what makes me question if its gb too. but I see what you are saying, you can have stones and not totally be diseased and you can just have an inflamed or irritated, there are many degrees of probs which makes total sense. I hope I never get that bad... Well I just took my stress test yesterday everything was fine as I expected. I also got a call and my blood labs are normal, no elevated liver enzymes, etc.?! So I don't know if this means it's not the gb, should something show up definitely in your blood tests for gb?? Or can it be undetected there?? Either way basically I still have no answers on whats going on. Thats what docs are for right?!? And I have an appt. set up with NEW doctor on 11/4. I now am getting a cold and also have a fever blister, so I am geniunely miserable, I think I'm falling apart!! Does everything happen at once or what...? Actually people are a lot worse off than me for sure... So I should suck it up... http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif Ultrasound is Friday, we'll see... Thanks for responding, I'm learning more and more!!

Hi CStarz!

Glad to hear your ultrasound is this Friday -- hopefully you will learn whether or not you have stones. Mine revealed the little stones very readily, but that's not always the case. Smaller (newer) stones are more likely to cause a problem when they try to escape from the GB. Any larger (older) stones would not be able to move into the ducts at all, so they tend to just sit there, dormant.

I actually felt the ultrasound "probe" over the gall bladder area as it was moved around. It was a slightly sore feeling in one tiny area, but I am unable to duplicate it now using my fingers. My doctor(s) were unable to duplicate it, either.

Your ultrasound test ("abdominal ultrasound) should also cover the following organs: pancreas, liver, kidneys and abdominal aorta. In my case, all were fine. Only the gallstones showed up as a potential problem. If they do find stones, or the GB wall looks thickened, etc., they may want to do a HIDA scan next to see how the GB is functioning. It's another simple test.

I'm like you -- not really sick, but I do anticipate the "next" possible stone passing. Given your symptoms, if they do see stones on ultrasound, I'd say it's a pretty fair assumption that your pain incidents are caused by these stones.

When I expressed fear of traveling (to Maui!) to my internist, she said "don't worry -- you're not going to a third world country. They have a good hospital there."

The fact is that if you think you are having a really bad GB attack anywhere in the U.S., and go to an emergency room, and they determine you ARE having a gallbladder attack of some sort, unless it is REALLY obvious that you need immediate surgery for some reason, they will do two simple things: Give you an antibiotic to prevent infection, and give you a strong pain killer to get you through the incident. Then they will send you on your way to deal with possible surgery later.

So far, as I said, I have had only one incident in a three month timeframe. If I have a few more, I will undoubtedly opt for surgery. But... if I have a couple more incidents and they aren't overly long-lasting and I am not really sick, I will stick with the wait-and-see approach, along with trying to prevent MORE stones from forming via a healthy diet and very few carbs (that form stones) or fried or other greasy foods that can make us feel ill.

when I told a male friend of mine what had happened with that pain incident, he said it sounded exactly like a bizarre incident he had a number of years ago. He never investigated it, and it never happened again. Perhaps his was a stone, perhaps not... but the fact that a number of people have only one or a few such incidents makes us suspect he probably did pass a gallstone.

As some on these boards have said, when we are sick enough, suffer enough pain, and our lives are interrupted enough to want surgery, we will do it. My gastroenterologist said most people come back begging for referral to a surgeon to have the GB taken out. I definitely have not reached that stage yet.

Part of my hesitancy is that a significant number -- some 10% of people who have the surgery, have long-term or lifelong side effects that are not pleasant; i.e., constant diarrhea, etc. What they ARE happy about, however, is relief from the chronic pain when the GB is gone. There are medications they can take to help their digestion after surgery, but if I'm not really "sick" now, why mess with things? Most of the happy post-surgery people had very significant illness, pain and digestive problems before surgery.

Sorry you have a cold now -- hope it's enough better by Friday so you can concentrate on the ultrasound and not on your cold symptoms.

Good luck Friday, and let us know what the ultrasound reveals!

Joan

I called today and got my ultrasound results, the nurse said they were totally normal!!?? Now what??? I've had 2-3 semi-bad attacks over the last week, so its not going away. I also have been feeling a burning sensation above my right breast area?? Not sure what that is... I still have my appt. on 11-4 with the new doc and will go over everything and get their opinion, etc. But you feel crazy for going thru all this when they haven't found anything!!?? My husband called me a hypochondriac the other day when I complained about something else (which I normally don't go to doc ever or complain) he was kinda joking I guess with everything thats been going on. But it really hurt my feelings and is exactly what I am talking about since they haven't found anything yet!!!??? I know everyone says the hida is the only way to tell for sure?? But I think I've read people have passed that before too? Do you know of any really in depth resources online about gb probs. That I could read for symptoms and that talks about the tests not always showing, etc???? What do you guys think about my situation, still gb?? http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif

Hi. I just read your post and have to respond. I am 30 years old and I had the exact pain you are describing since I was about 21. At first it just started with upper right abdominal pain. Felt like someone was wringing out my stomach. I went to the doctor and got sent for ultrasounds, xrays, upper gi, barrium swallows etc etc. Sometimes the pain would be there every time I ate, sometimes I wouldn't get it for quite a while. When I didn't get the pain, I thought maybe I just had a sensitive stomach or that it was all in my head. I too have a history of gb problems which run in my family. Within the past year my problems became worse. I started getting pain under my shoulderblade, nausea, headaches, constant burping, diarreah, and just a general feeling of being sick, along with the abdominal pain. I had 2 more ultrasounds which came up normal. I was sent to a specialist that said no it's not your gallbladder. I had a funny feeling it was. I was really at my ropes end. I explained to the doctor that I knew it was my gb and that it runs in my family and she finally sent me to see a surgeon. I had to really push. The surgeon sent me for a hida scan. My gb did not fill up at all. They told me right there that they generally see this when someone has chronic cholestystitis. I was so relieved! I went to my doctor and she said yes it's your gallbladder. No stones were detected with any tests. I had mine out 2 weeks ago now. I can actually eat without getting pain, although I do experience slight phantom pains. If you have a feeling this is what it is, then you should go with it. Push your doctor to send you for tests. Especially if it runs in your family. I hope you find a doctor that will listen. And I hope you do not have to go through the same thing I did for 8 years. At least I know it was not all in my head. It sure gets frustrating! Sometimes persistance pays off. It does sound like your gallbladder to me. I hope everything gets figured out. Let us know how you are doing. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by carebear73 (edited 10-29-2003).]

Hi cstarz -- I agree with carebear!

Now that you've had the ultrasound with nothing showing up, don't stop there.

You need the HIDA scan. Even that scan might not indicate there is a big problem now, but keep on pushing the doctor, or get another one if need be.

So many people here have gone ahead and had further tests, eventually resorting to surgery, and found out they were correct about their conditions all along -- it WAS their gall bladder even though they didn't have stones and "passed" the tests. Tests are good, but not perfect. Many people have GB disease but it doesn't show up on a test result Others have obvious stones, but NO symtoms or only occasional, non-typical ones.

No sense in continuing to suffer -- keep forcing the issue and let us know what happens. Good luck!

Cstarz-keep the post up to let us know what is going on please! I am going through EXACTLY the same thing only I am also running a low grade temp. Normal bloodwork, norm ultrasound, had a scope and CT Friday. Will get results of that sometime this week. Doc said that he saw minor irritation which he biopsied but nothing more. To be honest I teared up a little not bc I want something to be wrong with me but bc I want to know why I am hurting so bad and feel so bad.
I hope you find an answer soon.

I realize I'm posting this reply a year after the original post, and I hope you have resolved this problem, but I will reply anyway. :)

I'm having the exact same feelings you had - exactly. Keep in mind though, that I have hepatitis C with liver cirrhosis.

My ultrasounds (2 of them) showed no stones, however, I know it's my gall bladder. I've just finished reading this: I realize I'm posting this reply a year after the original post, and I hope you have resolved this problem, but I will reply anyway. :)

I'm having the exact same feelings you had - exactly. Keep in mind though, that I have hepatitis C with liver cirrhosis.

My ultrasounds (2 of them) showed no stones, however, I know it's my gall bladder. I've just finished reading this:

http://www.qualitysurgical.com/Chapter%2018.htm

and it seems that stones "do not" have to show up on a scan, nor does the pain have to be caused by stones (I think I read that anyway ;) ).

I know my symptoms are not from my liver as I have
lived with this disease for almost 14 yrs and I can distinguish liver pain from other pain. One doctor also told me this specific pain is from my gallbladder, unfortunately, he is a "walk-in" clinic doctor and told me to follow up with my specialist, and that I will tell you is a chore in itself!

I hope that website article I posted above gives someone some insight, and I hope that your doing much better now.

Thanx, victoria
and it seems that stones "do not" have to show up on a scan, nor does the pain have to be caused by stones (I think I read that anyway ;) ).

I know my symptoms are not from my liver as I have lived with this disease for almost 14 yrs and I can distinguish liver pain from other pain. One doctor also told me this specific pain is from my gallbladder, unfortunately, he is a "walk-in" clinic doctor and told me to follow up with my specialist, and that I will tell you is a chore in itself!

I hope that website article I posted above gives someone some insight, and I hope that your doing much better now.

Thanx, victoria

Don't let the doctors rule out your gallbladder. I had liver test, blood test, sonogram and the doctors said they all came back normal BUT I kept having problems so I took it within myself to find a gastenterologist and he done a endoscopy and found a hernia and polyps but other than nothing. SO I still kept having the problems and finally the last resort he done a HIDA SCAN and the scan showed it exactly that it was my gallbladder. A sonogram doesn't pick up gallstones or gallbladder problems well so ask for a Hida Scan to be sure. Any questions I will be happy to answer.

Just curious if since this post you have found any answers?I had my out 1.5 weeks ago and today I had the exact same pain that I had before it was removed and that has me concerned....this was NOT phantom pain or a twinge...this was serious enough to make me wanna hurl and lasted @2-3 hrs just like my previous attacks.

All my pains pre-op (and today) are just as you described...feels like a heart attack...only this pain is on the right, under the breast, radiating to the center.

Any news??