I'm brand new to this board, thanks in advance for your input.

Four years ago I had my first episode of what has become a continual, daily headache. Some days are in the '4' range, some reach a '10' with nausea/vomiting. I have tinnitus which could make voluteer fireman respond to the station house, and am frequently surprised no one else can hear it. :) It worsens with the onset of a severe episode. Light isn't so bad, but sound can be near fatal when the brain is fully aggravated

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, has helped. I have been seeing a NS specializing in migraines, with a failed list of anti-depressants and anti-convulsants and triptans which extends to two pages; have been to a Pain Clinic with negligible results; and have explored chiropractic, accu-puncture and accu-pressure treatments as well an herbalist. Did allergy testing - negative. Got glasses, no change. Kept a headache diary and did the food / environment trigger search...nothing again.

The only condition which I haven't addressed as yet is a c5-c6 stenosis, which was MRI-diagnosed during the intial workups a couple years ago.

Tonight I am suffering and searching the web for other treatments and methods to explore. Somehow, reading of others misery and knowing I'm not the only father/husband/employee going through this gives me persepctive. I have come across several boards on which people list this c-spine condition an aggravating cause for severe headaches.

Any input from others with similar expereinces, or links to somewhere which could be informative?

I am laothe to have neck surgery. The mere thought of it induces irrational fear; but after four years of pain, and almost three of not being able to teach, I am willing to consider going under the knife.

Hang in there fellow sufferers, try to remember it could always be worse. That's the thought that keeps me going day after day. I keep saying to my wife and kids " Tomorrow the pain could all be gone..."

Ditto For my husband. We are scheduled to see a neurosurgeon the 23rd. He has five bulging discs in his neck and two are pressing against the spine. Has had severe headaches for 25 years and been thru all the meds too. Nothing has helped. In May he had a MRI that revealed this neck problem so we are hoping this is the cause of the headaches and if it is hoping they will do the surgery. They have a new surgery now that is an overnight stay and a short recovery. He has had the headaches 25 years. In July he was down most of the month. He was in bed for over two weeks the first part of the month. He has dizzy spells and falls so our family Dr. recommended getting the MRI and that is how we discovered all the pathology in his neck. The family Dr. was sending him to the nuerosurgeon because of his falling all the time and then the MRI showed all this so hoping to get it all taken care of. So you might want to check into a nuerosurgeon. Will let you know what we find out.

I saw this post when I was scrolling down going to another board and it caught my eye. I have also had my share of headaches in the past 3 1/2 years, but not near as bad as yours. I have also been lightheaded. I have been to countless doctors, and no one can seem to find a cause for my lightheadedness. I have had an MRI of my neck and I have "bulging" discs. I have neck pain at times, but not that often. I suffered whiplash about three months before all of my problems started, so I am certain it has something to do with that. The neurologist I was going to just kept writing me prescriptions and pushing me out the door, so I stopped going to him. I have a referral to go to another neuro - I just need to make the appointment. I have talked to other people on these boards that have the same issues, but no diagnosis. I'm sorry I wasn't really able to help you, but I wanted to let you know there are others out there going through the same thing. Please keep us posted!

Thanks for your support and input.

Today is day three of this particular episode,and I am growing very weary of the seemingly endless nature of the problem. Imagine a 'brain freeze' which lasts for hours or days...then you get some idea of what it is like. Throughout it all, I keep saying "it could be worse".

Anyone with surgial relief from this c5-c6 impingment, let me know how it worked out.

Thanks again

I have had headaches too, 4 1/2 years now, along with TMJ and bulging discs and C4-5 and C6-7. My headaches are like wearing a tight helmet for too long. I have had temporary relief from epidural steroidal injections (ESI) w/facet joint injections, and occipital nerve blocks. It is temporary though (weeks). I don't feel it is a long term solution, nor do I think it is very good for your tissue/joints, but it may provide enough relief for you to evaluate your long-term options with a clearer head. If you decide the ESI route, make sure a trained anesthesiologist performs the procedure under fluoroscopy, so he/she is not flying blind, and that you are sedated w/something like Versed, the magic amnesia drug.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I have had numerous steroid injections (My kids call it the 10,000 mile 'lube, oil and filter') for my knees, but never put it together for the neck. Duh! I'll check with the NS and see what he thinks. You're right about the joint deterioration, but what a great thought to perhaps have a period of clarity in which to think about surgical repair.
MANY Thanks to you, Delilah1963

CJRODKEY for 18 years I have had the same problem as you do but it took me this long to get a neck MRI to find out. Over the years I have paid out much cash whithout knowing the root of the problem ... shame on me but mostly on my DR's. Anyway to cut a long story short I will be having Minimally Invasive Laser (MSI) surgery done probably in Sept to clean out the problem areas. I believe there are only 3 clinics that do true MIS proceedure on an out patient bases, so if you look around be careful and make sure that they use small retractor tubes about 1/2" dia to to get access and it's all they do day in and day out. The alternative is classic open back surgery using a 6" cut and splitting the spine like a Lobster, no thanks. So in some ways I am glad it took this long to have the neck MRI, had the problem been found before MSI was available I might have opted for the old method by now. My heart truly goes out to all the quietly suffering people of the world Cheers and good luck?

If your headaches are related to the cervical issues, you may benefit from physical therapy. Those headaches are tension-type headaches brought on from involuntary muscle tightening and spasms that occur while your body is trying to 'guard' from the pain. Even if you're already active and exercise, learning specific strengthening and stretching moves for those upper back, shoulder and neck muscles would help.

However, I don't believe I've heard anyone mention extreme sensitivity to sound in relation to cervical headaches.

I feel I should also mention that 1) libbylou - if your NS has referred to neck surgery as "an overnight stay and a short recovery", he/she is vastly oversimplifying things, and 2) tighthead - you must be referring to lumbar surgery, because no one is going to "make a 6-inch cut and split the spine like a lobster" for a cervical procedure.

Thanks to ember919 and tighthead for the input.

I have gone to the UPMC pain clinic in hopes of getting some relief, and they stressed the relaxation and PT portion of the regimen, but after four months of practicing thrice daily I have found no respite from the pain. The tinnitus is constant, and increases dramatically at the onset of a true migrain. Most times the pain is in the 5-7 on the 'how bad does it hurt from 1-10' scale range, but when the severe ringing starts it rockets to 10, with the violent nausea, and stays there anywhere from several hours to a couple of days.

I have a NS appt. in two weeks,and will be asking about the injections and MIS procedure. There is the Jho clinic here in Pittsburgh, anyone had any experience with them?

My wife is a nurse and makes certain that all medicos and procedures are competent, necessary and safe. It's good to have a professional on hand for consultation. :):)

Thanks again

cjrodkey, what is a Jho clinic? I too suffer from headaches, and have been wondering where to turn next. I live about 30 minutes south of Pittsburgh. I have had these headaches for 8 years now, mine started about a month after a minor fender bender. I was thinking about going to Jefferson Pain Clinic, asking maybe for injections, my mom had them done there and it helped her alot. Good luck, like you, I know how frustrating it is!!! They really are horrible..

Hi JennyR.

I found a reference to Dr Jho while trolling through headache and cervical spine Boards a couple of weeks ago. The refrence was two years old, but I have been following up with searches and Q&A of people in the medical field. I am going to question my own NS at my next appt. in couple of weeks about the choices and chances regarding this procedure.

Seems that Dr Jho has developed a procedure whereby one doesn't have to have the 'filleting' of the dura or severe immobilaization during convalescence. Again, this is all in the roughest of research stages, and I don't truly know much at all.

BTW -> I live in Monroeville.

Good luck with your quest.
Maybe tomorrow it will all just stop hurting. :):)

CJ

WHAT A DISSAPOINTMENT FOR ME AND ESPECIALLY DH. We waited for three months to get into a nuerosurgeon thinking he would do something with the five bulging discs in hubby's neck and it would hopefully get rid of the headaches of 25 years. First we waited in the waiting room for 11/2 hours to even get into a room. Then another probably 15 min. The Dr. said he didn't think he need surgery and to go see a neurologist. We have seen numerous neurologist, Md's, gillions of tests to NO avail. I was not a happy and hubby was in total shock. Two or three of the discs are pushing on the spine. Of course that was a $7,000. test. He has had so many head scans. The day after we had the NS appointment we got home and had a letter from a hospital doing a two year study on treating migraines with botox. Boy he signed up for that. Gives us hope again. I feel like we both have suffered with these darn things. So I can relate to spouses of migrainers. It is awful for all involved. I'm sure the Dr. will charge around $400. for that visit for nothing. He did prescribe a muscle relaxer. It is like no one cares anymore. I'm done complaining now just needed to get it off my chest. Anyone have a good report???:)

WOW! I don't see the topic of cervicogenic headaches very often. That is what my pain doc finally diagnosed me with. My issues stem at C2 & C3 from double whiplash. They started 11/99 and haven't stopped since. Your list of things you have done looks very familiar. I tried everything. I am currently coming down off heavy narcotic meds. I am going with some natural berry juice with Celadrin and Glucosamine in it.

I wish everyone here luck and hope the headaches get better. Take care,
Drew

Does any here with cervicogenic headaches ever get facial tingling? I have been getting these neck and back of skull headaches for 8 years now, after a minor car accident, thinking that maybe whiplash. Neuro told me that people with cervicogenic/migraine headaches are prone to "increased central sensitization". Anyone heard of this? I can't stand clothing against my skin, it makes me feel like there are bugs crawling under it. My brain MRI came back normal, I guess maybe next step cervical MRI. Would be great if I could just walk around naked, sure hubby wouldn't mind either. LOL.

JennyR - perhaps your husband can see a silver lining in your suffering:) Hope it's warm where you live and/or your house is well insulated. Might get some dark drapes too. It's good to keep a sense of humor and positive perspective.

Never have had the tingling you reference. My c5-c7 stenosis is from repeated head trauma over many years of sports injuries, and the only neuro symptoms are the daily headaches interspersed with weekly migraines, and some rather severe numbness of the right arm, hand and thumb /first two fingers of my right hand (like when I ride the motorcycle for a long period without bringing the hand down and shaking it out)

The cervical MRI should provide some evidence and insight into the 'crawling' sensation... and maybe therin lies a path to finding treatment and relief. It sounds like it would be maddening, the headaches are bad enough by themselves.

Someone suggested a 'cortisone' like shot into the effected cervical area, and I think there may be some merit in that possible treatment. It works miracles for my knees (in the relative short term), and I am thinking perhaps a period of clarity might allow me to reach a non-pain-coerced decision into cervical surgery.

Good luck to you in your search. Here's wishing many pain free days for you and some (minor) itching days for your husbands benefit.:):) Here's a prayer my wife gets such a thought someday.

Every night I go to bed thinking "Tomorrow could be pain free..."
Please keep the faith.

Drewtn

The UPMC pain clinic suggested methadone to dull the constant headache and migraine pain. I chose against it and (so far) manage as best I can with the occasional Davocet. It still hurts but at least I can at least cook, clean and get the kids where they need to go, instead of laying in bed or locking myself in my office. I am on medical disability as of 1/06 and have settled in to the 'Mr Mom' groove, most days I can do so with a smile instead of remorse/melancholy for what used to be.

Good luck in your new found regimen. My orthopod (bad knees) has recommended glucosamine and and chondroitin as a daily supplement. I'd be curious to learn of your progress using them for the c-spine.

Guess that's why I'm seaching these boards...to find fellow travelers like you who can suggest alternate treatments. I've also been advised (by a forum member) to try steroid injections into that region to gain temporary relief and make a decision about the surgery. We'll see...

I notiecd the 'senior member' under your name and wondered if that is a good or bad thing. Guess to reach that you hae to have had these for quite a while...like...since 1999?

Thanks for your input and good wishes.
Keep the faith.

CJRODKEY, With all due repect to other opinions over the years I have jumped through a lot of hoops with no success i.e. 1-1/2 years of Chriopractic, Weeks of Massage Therapy, Accupuncture, Biofeedback at the the Penn State Hospital, Some Medication, All Manner of Stretching, Hot and Cold packs, Topical Creams, Relaxation Response Training, Tested by a Physical Therapist who concluded that there was nothing abnormal to treat.,TMJ specialist in Virginia, Trigger Point Therapy, and more. Also my experience has been that excessive neck manipulation causes a rebound of worse thightness and pain. I agree that the first round of treatment should be conservative but no amount of stretching will remove bone and tissue pressing on nerves inside and around the spine.

I admit that using the term " split like a lobster" in my previous posting was a little over the top and I apoligize for the statement. My opinion (I am not a Dr just a sufferer) is that the JHO proceedure to treat Spinal Stenosis, Herniated Discs, and Foraminal Stenosis is much less invasive than open neck surgery but not as advaced as the techniques used by the Laser Spine Institute, Bonati Clinic, or Microspine. The JHO Clinic method requires that a hole be made into the Lamina where as the three other methods, are more advanced , and do not. In all fairness my Nurosurgeon said that he does not do surgery for neck pain and given the type of Surgery for Stenosis (open back and fusion) he is limited to I agree. However, in this day and age there is another little known option available that is not yet in the main stream. For instance there are some Lasik Clinics that do superior corrective Eye Surgery using 100% computer controlled laser not too long ago the proccedure was accomplished by hand using a scalpel. Have fun and stay loose!

JENNY R. Just read your post and yes I also get facial tingling on my left side along with horrific neck and head tension sometimes resulting in equalibrium/balance challenges. I also was in a severe car accident (from the side) with whiplash when I was 12. It's a long time since then but I don't think these issues go away on their own. The more I read in this thread the more I am convinced that cervical spine issues are the root of many or our, thus far, mystery head and neck pain/tension problems. Get a Cervical MRI sweetie it took me 18 years of living in hell before I finally got fed up and insisted that my Dr. order one. I had 3 Brain scans in 18 years but nothing on the neck, where the pain was, go figgure. Sorry to say but I have reached an opinion that some, not all, Dr's are only MD's because they could afford to school for the profession and might be more suitable for doing yard work or something that requires less mental effort. There are some very good ones worthy of great respect and gratitude while others are wet noodles. Cheers!

cjrodkey, your funny!! I don't have drapes, just valances on some windows, other windows nothing, but there about 25 feet off the ground, so I'll be safe there. I have 27 windows in my house, kinda hard to afford window treatments, but I like valances anyway. I have to say, where we used to live, my neighbor would prance outside everyday in the summer with her bikini on, mind you, she weighed about 180 pounds, my husband would say, God, she is asking alot of the sun, isn't she. You only weigh 120 lbs, and you won't even put on a one-piece bathing suit. Thought that was funny!!! Keep feeling these strange feelings, eventually my whole family will see me walking around naked, being that we all live on the same road, only about 1/4 mile apart. They'll say, "She's finally lost it for sure." LOL. Yes, maybe someday we will find something that will work for us, its frustrating, the headaches I can deal with, but these strange feelings must go soon. Who knows maybe I'm going through peri-menopause at 35, my gram went through at 39, god only knows what will happen when those start!!!:eek:
Take care!!!:wave:

Tighthead, thanks for your post. I'm starting to be convinced that all this is coming from my neck. I just always heard that the nerve in your face (trigeminal) was a cranial nerve, and doesn't have anything to do with the cervical region, I guess, after reading alot of posts from people here and there, it's pretty common, and then it makes you think that alot of people never say anything about having this facial tingling thingy because people will think they are nuts!! My doc more or less tells me that everytime I bring this subject up. Thank you so much, and take care!!!:wave:

Jenny R. My MRI showed the majority of problems at C5 & C6 and, as I understand it, facial nerves run under a persons traps and neck muscles before going up into the face so if they are tight it makes sense that the nerves would be affected.

CJRODKEY you are smart to stay away from Meth once hooked a person is pretty much at it's mercy maybe for life. I have seen it in people myself. Taking a little something to calm down the pissed off feeling caused by the chronic nature of the problem is one thing but going long term on heavy RX gives you another emotional and physical problem to boot.

I am booked for MIS at the Laser Spine Institute in Tampa maybe the symptoms will go away when the cervical spine nerve impingement is removed. Cheers!

tighthead

I checked out the webpages for Microspine, Bonati and LSI. Interesting and educational, with a large quantity of 'layman' diagrams and succinct explanations. Seems they will accept a cd of one's scan images and then give a free consulatation on what they think your diagnosis and possible treatment options are. Since I had another C-spine MRI yesterday (9.1), I figure I might as well send some disks off to Fla and see what they all have to say...their impressions/intepretation of the scan, and what each might offer in the way of treatment options.

Microspine says they do a series of elimination tests, blocking certain nerves to see which eliminates the pain one is experiencing, to determine exactly which area to operate upon. While doing that might substantially add to the time and expense of a trip to the region ( I'm in Pa and would have to stay over much longer) I like the idea of pinpointing the pain generator BEFORE anything invasive. It seems practical and a better guarantor of doing the least amount poking and cutting.

Anyone have any expereince with these clinincs? I'd be very interested in hearing success, neutral or horror stories of those undergoing any procedures there.

I have recently heard some less than flattering feedback from folks familiar with the Jho clinic. So before I go all the way to Fla for an extended stay and major procedure, it would be great if I could get some unfiltered testimonials from clients of those clinics.

keep the faith...tomorrow the pain could all just disappear. :)

cjrodkey, Interesting I also live in PA ... You can try the same thing I scoured the internet, Google, Yahoo and Netvista with all kinds of searches. I looked at the Dr's names, company names, and also what was availabe on MIS Laser Surgery utilizing the Depuyspine.com (or similar) illuminated tube for access with laser. I found one or two legal actions directed towards Dr. Bonati and one where Dr. Mork from Microspine was also invoved a number of years back. But the charges were weak claiming that the surgery need not have been done. Medicine is not an exact science if that was the case I could sue a dozen Dr's who took my money with no results. Anyone who is out there pushing the pre boxed limits of medicine will have some issues. In Dr Bonati's 20+ years of pioneering the technique I was frankly surprised to not find more litigation.

Also keep in mind that these Dr's had to leave the relative comfort of a Hospital and the in network insurance gravy train before striking out on thier own investing personal fund to establish a clinic. Also if you look through the Aetna and Cignia web page clinical papers you will see that the technique ( similar to the Y.E.S.S ) is considered by them to be investigational solely because no one has carried out a scientific comparison between it and convetional surgery techniques. My findings have left me with a positive attitude on the technique which is why I am biting the bullet and going for it.

The MRI shows significant nerve impingement many people with similar MRI's seem to have similar symptoms which sounds reasonable, to me, that removing the impingment could resolve the symptoms. One thing I know for sure is that treating the symptoms will not, ever, remove the impingement. If you guy's / girls find out anything more, good or bad ,please post because I might have missed something. Have fun and - try- to stay loose!

Tighthead, where abouts in Pa? I live in SW PA.

JENNY R. I live in the Hershey, PA area.

Also I would like to mention to CJRODKEY (who I think said that he lives in Pittsburgh) that a couple of years ago I visited a Dr. Arriga Moasis (Previously a US Airforce flight DR.) at the Allegheny Hospital for testing on the equlibrium/balance issues I get from time to time. He did the whole nine yards a spinning chair enclosed in a drum like room, brain MRI, some other inner ear test that unleashed a torrent of sensations like spinning uncontrollably in space .... that was nasty. Conclusion , he could find nothing wrong, Brain or inner ear, to cause the problem ... but I did find out that the brain uses quite few reference points for balance including head position sensing coming from certain neck muscles. He agreed that tightness of the balance sensed muscles can cause the problem. This makes sense because my left side neck muscles are chronically tight or technically in spasm in the same area where the MRI is showing problems. The only reason I am writing these details is to hopefully help someone having similar issues know what took me too many years and a lot of bucks to find out. Oh yea in my case ringing in the ears (not as bad as CJRODKEY described) also has no organic cause. So (1) sit back have a drink and (2) never stop looking for a solution while knowing that your DR. is only doing # (1)...Cheers!

I am 36, ...I think I have this same thing. I have hurniated disks elsewhere on my spine as well.

Mine started suddenly...although i think I had ear pain before and some other signs..but I had gotten my hair done 2 weeks in a row..the sinks hurt, so i hold my neck up a little..then i went to a dr to get a photofacial and layed on his table, turning my neck one side then the other at time...and I came up with the most excruciating pain in my right side temple. It is now all over, pressure sometimes, some shooting pains when I turn my head or tilt

One thing I have with my constant headache is nausea..comes and goes. Or i think i have stressed myself out sooo much thinking the worst ( i do that), that I have stomach problems now.

Also...ear pain some...but man oh man...this is almost dibilitating. I have 2 children, i keep going, but if I didn't i would be in bed alot!

Anyone have any other odd symptoms to describe with this cervical spine problem.

Thanks you all,
Trish

TLR... try taking two Advil AND two Percogesic, and rubbing some salnoplas into your neck and sholders, this should give you quite a degree of relief

Thank you Aussie...I am one of those people who try to make it go away..so I dont' take anything to cover up...but i am desperate so i think I will take meds. I was thinking horrible thoughts, not use to having headaches at all.

The 2nd drug you mentioned..is that an anti-inflammatory? Safe to take with advil?

Thanks,
trish