Kokopelli
09-14-2002, 09:43 AM
This is basically for chrys but anyone jump in.. bev, starcat? or whoever is reading this post.
chrys since you have studied alot about bi-polar when or how do we see the signs of each illness (since they both are different) say for instance the doctors diagnose david with bi-polar and then go back to schitzophrenia how can I help his doctors conclude the diagnose, since I take care of him and know him better.
16 years of my family taking care of david with this illness is a long time. And to this day they still will not all agree he is schitzophrenic I feel people like starcat are going to having a rougher time caring for their loved one if they don't have a true diagnose of the illness. Although more doctors that have studied david say he is schitzophrenic and we have seen schitzophrenic type behavior more so on his point there is still times doctors say he may be bi-p (I know nothing on bi-polar) Bev I read somewhere where your husband tells you to slow down a bit and that you don't realize you are having these episodes.. David doesn't ever stop anymore he cannot seem to figure out even a kind voice telling him to slow down so they obviously have your illness pinpointed and are treating you properly (I hate saying illness). Can you give me some pointers?
Hugs
Koko
when you give up your dreams your life is over
never give up your goals, fight to the end
chrys since you have studied alot about bi-polar when or how do we see the signs of each illness (since they both are different) say for instance the doctors diagnose david with bi-polar and then go back to schitzophrenia how can I help his doctors conclude the diagnose, since I take care of him and know him better.
16 years of my family taking care of david with this illness is a long time. And to this day they still will not all agree he is schitzophrenic I feel people like starcat are going to having a rougher time caring for their loved one if they don't have a true diagnose of the illness. Although more doctors that have studied david say he is schitzophrenic and we have seen schitzophrenic type behavior more so on his point there is still times doctors say he may be bi-p (I know nothing on bi-polar) Bev I read somewhere where your husband tells you to slow down a bit and that you don't realize you are having these episodes.. David doesn't ever stop anymore he cannot seem to figure out even a kind voice telling him to slow down so they obviously have your illness pinpointed and are treating you properly (I hate saying illness). Can you give me some pointers?
Hugs
Koko
when you give up your dreams your life is over
never give up your goals, fight to the end
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bev52
09-14-2002, 03:19 PM
Hi Koko,
Yes, I have a tendency to get on a roll...I get faster, and louder and continue to pick up momentum until some one says something. My hubby, doc, family have told me "you almost sound like you're speaking another language" or..."you sound like it's a life and death situation!" These kind of comments can really set me off. I'm desperately trying to make them understand something that is very important to me and they're treating as if it's really nothing. In reality, it probably and usually isn't as important as I thought it was - but at the time - it seemed incredibly important and their remarks just made me want to grab them and shake a dumplin out of 'em!
When I'm through that 'episode,' usually I can see that what I was trying so hard to get across...really wasn't that big of a deal and lacking in importance, as they tried to tell me. I think the key, (as bconn mentioned), is family and those around the bipolar person....need to have as much insight as possible because it REALLY does make a difference as to how we are talked to when in that state.
Hope I've helped a little,
Hugs,
Bev
bconn seems to be quite knowledgeable in this area. Hope she comes on the scene w/something to add.
Yes, I have a tendency to get on a roll...I get faster, and louder and continue to pick up momentum until some one says something. My hubby, doc, family have told me "you almost sound like you're speaking another language" or..."you sound like it's a life and death situation!" These kind of comments can really set me off. I'm desperately trying to make them understand something that is very important to me and they're treating as if it's really nothing. In reality, it probably and usually isn't as important as I thought it was - but at the time - it seemed incredibly important and their remarks just made me want to grab them and shake a dumplin out of 'em!
When I'm through that 'episode,' usually I can see that what I was trying so hard to get across...really wasn't that big of a deal and lacking in importance, as they tried to tell me. I think the key, (as bconn mentioned), is family and those around the bipolar person....need to have as much insight as possible because it REALLY does make a difference as to how we are talked to when in that state.
Hope I've helped a little,
Hugs,
Bev
bconn seems to be quite knowledgeable in this area. Hope she comes on the scene w/something to add.
bconn
09-14-2002, 11:03 PM
Ok, I will jump in but I know nothing about Schizophrenia. I do know about bi-polar manic episodes and I can control mine most of the time. I think that I might be somewhat unusual in that I can control my episodes to a degree but I don't think I am the only one that can.
I think that doctors and all the mental health people want to treat bi-polar people with medicines rather than take the longer route of teaching them how to change their lives to deal with their thought process. It is hard but it can be done and you have to work at it all the time. It does become easier because you find that you are happier.
I think that your spouse is much sicker than I was (or am) and I feel so sorry for both of you. I want you to know that it is important to help as much as you can but do not destroy your own mind doing what you can't do! You can't cure but you can love. Sixteen years is a lifetime when you are dealing with stress of bi-polar episodes much less Schizophrenia!
Keep trying to find the right way for you both. It may actually be the meds but ask questions all the time. Don't take it for granted that the doctors know what is best. They don't always. You do because you are the one there. You can see what is helping and what isn't. Insist that they change the meds if they aren't helping or if the meds are making things worse. All you have to do is watch this board or read about meds to find that a lot of people have problems with the meds that doctors insist are helping when they aren't.
In the meantime, remember that a kind voice helps (us) much more than screaming or accusing (not that I think that you are doing that) because we get so damn defensive so damn easy and you usually won't even know it!
Please know that healing thoughts are being sent your way!
Brenda aka bconn
I think that doctors and all the mental health people want to treat bi-polar people with medicines rather than take the longer route of teaching them how to change their lives to deal with their thought process. It is hard but it can be done and you have to work at it all the time. It does become easier because you find that you are happier.
I think that your spouse is much sicker than I was (or am) and I feel so sorry for both of you. I want you to know that it is important to help as much as you can but do not destroy your own mind doing what you can't do! You can't cure but you can love. Sixteen years is a lifetime when you are dealing with stress of bi-polar episodes much less Schizophrenia!
Keep trying to find the right way for you both. It may actually be the meds but ask questions all the time. Don't take it for granted that the doctors know what is best. They don't always. You do because you are the one there. You can see what is helping and what isn't. Insist that they change the meds if they aren't helping or if the meds are making things worse. All you have to do is watch this board or read about meds to find that a lot of people have problems with the meds that doctors insist are helping when they aren't.
In the meantime, remember that a kind voice helps (us) much more than screaming or accusing (not that I think that you are doing that) because we get so damn defensive so damn easy and you usually won't even know it!
Please know that healing thoughts are being sent your way!
Brenda aka bconn
chrysanthemum
09-16-2002, 08:13 AM
[deleted]
[This message has been edited by chrysanthemum (edited 01-09-2003).]
[This message has been edited by chrysanthemum (edited 01-09-2003).]
StarCat
09-16-2002, 10:52 AM
Cheers for Koko for starting the perfect topic for me! Now that I'm back at work where I have internet access....let me flex my typing muscles........
Oh my gosh it is SOOO frustrating not being sure of the diagnosis. Today will be a huge day for my b/f as his primary hospital doc returns from vacation, and will be made aware of the mania and paranoia that's been occurring. I am obviously not a doc, although I feel like I'm just as qualified to make a diagnosis, since I'm the only one w/ Mental Health expertise that knows my b/f real well...some ego I have huh? I am stuck on Bipolar type 1 w/ Schizo-affective, mostly b/c my psychiatrist thinks he's Bipolar 1, not schizophrenic. The doc there only dx'd Bipolar 1. And like I said, my psychiatrist, who of course has never seen my b/f, also thinks that he is Bipolar 1....because even Bipolar people can get paranoid. She also said that with his history of paranoia, it doesn't matter what the dx is, because he'll still get the right meds (antipsychotics in addition to mood-stabilizers).
BUT IT MATTERS TO THE FAMILY AND ME http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
But Chrys (as usual) made a good point that maybe doc's are being more cautious with dx's lately in part because they realize the intricacies of mental health, and acknowledge that they don't have all the answers. I've been keeping a log of my b/f's behavior and mood, which I hope will be helpful to a doc someday... Right now, he is still blazing manic, although they're trying to dope him up to "slow him down" so they don't have to keep restraining him. I've tried nonchalantly mentioning the volume and tone of his voice in an effort to alert him to his state, but he keeps insisting that he's just happy.
I think having a support network is vital, since so often the sufferer cannot pinpoint a mood-swing as easily as family, etc. I just wish the doctors would listen more closely to the families for feedback on what the sufferer is really like. Doc's really don't end up knowing what the sufferer is "normally" like, since they don't see him/her unless something is wrong (at least in a hospital setting).
Well, I've done my share of rambling. Hugs to all,
StarCat
Oh my gosh it is SOOO frustrating not being sure of the diagnosis. Today will be a huge day for my b/f as his primary hospital doc returns from vacation, and will be made aware of the mania and paranoia that's been occurring. I am obviously not a doc, although I feel like I'm just as qualified to make a diagnosis, since I'm the only one w/ Mental Health expertise that knows my b/f real well...some ego I have huh? I am stuck on Bipolar type 1 w/ Schizo-affective, mostly b/c my psychiatrist thinks he's Bipolar 1, not schizophrenic. The doc there only dx'd Bipolar 1. And like I said, my psychiatrist, who of course has never seen my b/f, also thinks that he is Bipolar 1....because even Bipolar people can get paranoid. She also said that with his history of paranoia, it doesn't matter what the dx is, because he'll still get the right meds (antipsychotics in addition to mood-stabilizers).
BUT IT MATTERS TO THE FAMILY AND ME http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
But Chrys (as usual) made a good point that maybe doc's are being more cautious with dx's lately in part because they realize the intricacies of mental health, and acknowledge that they don't have all the answers. I've been keeping a log of my b/f's behavior and mood, which I hope will be helpful to a doc someday... Right now, he is still blazing manic, although they're trying to dope him up to "slow him down" so they don't have to keep restraining him. I've tried nonchalantly mentioning the volume and tone of his voice in an effort to alert him to his state, but he keeps insisting that he's just happy.
I think having a support network is vital, since so often the sufferer cannot pinpoint a mood-swing as easily as family, etc. I just wish the doctors would listen more closely to the families for feedback on what the sufferer is really like. Doc's really don't end up knowing what the sufferer is "normally" like, since they don't see him/her unless something is wrong (at least in a hospital setting).
Well, I've done my share of rambling. Hugs to all,
StarCat
bev52
09-16-2002, 11:54 AM
I would like to thank all of you for taking the time to share, and draw from your resources. You have all helped me and I have great appreciation for your time.
It hasn't been all that long ago that I was dx'd w/bipolar...I just hate to admit this infront of all of you...but I'm still just a little in denial.
Family and friends 'don't want me to be - Bi-Polar,' and have said, "I just don't believe that doc knows what he's talking about, and you shouldn't be so quick to believe everything you're told." It makes me feel like they don't want to be associated w/someone that's mentally ill....well, neither do I! My family and friends are COMPLETELY in denial! Unfortunately, I can't get away from it if it's true...and from everything I've read -- I fit the ticket and this is the 2nd psych that has told me that.
Well, enough about me and my piddly little things going on. I know it pales in comparison to what Koko and StarCat are up against.
I'm hoping to hear good news from you Koko, and StarCat.
Best Wishes and please care of yourselves,
Bev
[This message has been edited by bev52 (edited 09-16-2002).]
It hasn't been all that long ago that I was dx'd w/bipolar...I just hate to admit this infront of all of you...but I'm still just a little in denial.
Family and friends 'don't want me to be - Bi-Polar,' and have said, "I just don't believe that doc knows what he's talking about, and you shouldn't be so quick to believe everything you're told." It makes me feel like they don't want to be associated w/someone that's mentally ill....well, neither do I! My family and friends are COMPLETELY in denial! Unfortunately, I can't get away from it if it's true...and from everything I've read -- I fit the ticket and this is the 2nd psych that has told me that.
Well, enough about me and my piddly little things going on. I know it pales in comparison to what Koko and StarCat are up against.
I'm hoping to hear good news from you Koko, and StarCat.
Best Wishes and please care of yourselves,
Bev
[This message has been edited by bev52 (edited 09-16-2002).]
sillytycoo
09-16-2002, 12:08 PM
My sister has the same diagnoses Bi-polar and schitzophrenia . She has for 10 yrs. and counting.I say counting because this is an on going battle . You mentioned that you don't know the syptoms of Bi-polar well I tell you some signs : the very deep depression , the mood swings from one extreme to the next just like that, and my sister also has panic attacks . With my sister schitzophrenia she gets delusions sometimes pretty bad . My sister is in an indepent living program and depending how she does she might have to go back into a goup home it is hard to say right now. With my sister's illness I only see bouts of schitzophrenia but I can always see the Bi-polar . But no two people with same illness with act the same . I hope I have offered some insight to you about your family memeber and best of luck to you and your family this is a diffcult .
StarCat
09-16-2002, 12:26 PM
Dear Bev,
I think I already picked up from other posts of yours that you were leaning towards denial. But now that you've come right out and said it - congratulations! You've just taken your first step into moving past denial!! My b/f grappled for years w/ denial - look where it landed him! And his parents are still in denial to some degree, which is a real shame, because you need to have your family and friends be on the same page as you and your doc, and be supportive of your illness.
I applaud you for having the insight to know that you need more help coming to terms with your illness. We're all here to support you. Maybe you could write a letter to family/friends explaining that you really do have this illness, but that you are having a hard time dealing with it, and you could really use their support.
I hope your family & friends shape up. Take care,
StarCat
I think I already picked up from other posts of yours that you were leaning towards denial. But now that you've come right out and said it - congratulations! You've just taken your first step into moving past denial!! My b/f grappled for years w/ denial - look where it landed him! And his parents are still in denial to some degree, which is a real shame, because you need to have your family and friends be on the same page as you and your doc, and be supportive of your illness.
I applaud you for having the insight to know that you need more help coming to terms with your illness. We're all here to support you. Maybe you could write a letter to family/friends explaining that you really do have this illness, but that you are having a hard time dealing with it, and you could really use their support.
I hope your family & friends shape up. Take care,
StarCat
bev52
09-17-2002, 01:07 AM
Star, I appreciate the advice but I CANNOT make my Mom, Dad or Sis believe this, (a couple of cousins that are just like sisters will NOT accept it either), so I was reluctant to even tell them...since I know them so well. They've always depended on me for help in different areas and I've never minded indulging them.
I believe they think that if I 'won't' accept this illness, then they can continue to receive help from me, and not feel guilt. I don't say this to make my family sound like bad people or talk about them in a negative way...it's just the facts. I know they will NEVER accept this dx's. They see me as a strong, diligent, determined, person, (not this weakened shell of a person I have turned into), that has always been there when they needed me - and now if I have something wrong w/me...maybe they can't come to me (freely), to ask of me whatever it is that they want.
As long as they don't accept it,(bipolar),...then nothing has changed.
I don't know if telling them that I was dx'd as bipolar was the right thing to do...but that is exactly WHY I told them, so they would try to fight their own battles, find answers to lifes problems on their own, seek advice/info on things that concern them. It's just been a life-long battle w/trying to help them every time they have a little turbulence in their lives. I don't mean this as a complaint...I just need to help myself and they need to help themselves.
You have no idea how hard I've tried to explain this to them and wean them off.
No matter how hard I try, they still call me when they need help, and 'pretend' that I have no problems and things are just as they've always been.
Oh well, so many others are hurting in the world and I'm gabbing my head off about little to do about nothing.LOL Sorry.
Thx,
Bev
I believe they think that if I 'won't' accept this illness, then they can continue to receive help from me, and not feel guilt. I don't say this to make my family sound like bad people or talk about them in a negative way...it's just the facts. I know they will NEVER accept this dx's. They see me as a strong, diligent, determined, person, (not this weakened shell of a person I have turned into), that has always been there when they needed me - and now if I have something wrong w/me...maybe they can't come to me (freely), to ask of me whatever it is that they want.
As long as they don't accept it,(bipolar),...then nothing has changed.
I don't know if telling them that I was dx'd as bipolar was the right thing to do...but that is exactly WHY I told them, so they would try to fight their own battles, find answers to lifes problems on their own, seek advice/info on things that concern them. It's just been a life-long battle w/trying to help them every time they have a little turbulence in their lives. I don't mean this as a complaint...I just need to help myself and they need to help themselves.
You have no idea how hard I've tried to explain this to them and wean them off.
No matter how hard I try, they still call me when they need help, and 'pretend' that I have no problems and things are just as they've always been.
Oh well, so many others are hurting in the world and I'm gabbing my head off about little to do about nothing.LOL Sorry.
Thx,
Bev
chrysanthemum
09-17-2002, 01:17 AM
[deleted]
[This message has been edited by chrysanthemum (edited 01-09-2003).]
[This message has been edited by chrysanthemum (edited 01-09-2003).]
bev52
09-17-2002, 03:28 AM
Chrys, you are such a sweetheart and I DO know how fortunate I am to have you in my life.
This dx's of bipolar wasn't easy for me and I kept second guessing...probably still am to some degree. I do think that I HAD come to the place that I knew it would be better in the long run to embrace it and go to work on getting help. When I told my family - hoping that even if they didn't want to accept it, at least they could show me the courtesy of backing off on asking for so much help, and understand that I was not up to par and needed some breathing room.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - just about the time I feel I'm making progress in the right direction...someone jumps in and verses their strong opinion, which is meant to reinforce my initial feelings of denial - then I feel like I'm starting all over again.
I know these people, and I love them but they CANNOT and WILL NOT accept this. If truth came along and sat in their laps...and even jumped up and bit them...LOL...they would be like a snapping turtle...they wouldn't turn loose until it thundered, and even then they would still deny the facts.
I guess my goose is cooked on this one...it's just a go-it-alone kinda thing.
Oh well, I have all of you and my hubby, so I'm sure things will be okay.
...and how are you faring these days? (Now that I've written a book about myself...I give you one little measley line).LOL I'm being such a wuss...and just making a big old donkey out of myself. So sorry.
If you would like to just chat about yourself sometime....believe it or not...I really can listen!
My Love and Hugs,
Bev
I'm ashamed to admit this but that's one reason I have not been to see them in so long. I believe the last time I saw them was around the time I was dx'd, ( a little less than a year ago), and the negative vibes were so strong I felt that my life was literally draining from my body.
This dx's of bipolar wasn't easy for me and I kept second guessing...probably still am to some degree. I do think that I HAD come to the place that I knew it would be better in the long run to embrace it and go to work on getting help. When I told my family - hoping that even if they didn't want to accept it, at least they could show me the courtesy of backing off on asking for so much help, and understand that I was not up to par and needed some breathing room.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - just about the time I feel I'm making progress in the right direction...someone jumps in and verses their strong opinion, which is meant to reinforce my initial feelings of denial - then I feel like I'm starting all over again.
I know these people, and I love them but they CANNOT and WILL NOT accept this. If truth came along and sat in their laps...and even jumped up and bit them...LOL...they would be like a snapping turtle...they wouldn't turn loose until it thundered, and even then they would still deny the facts.
I guess my goose is cooked on this one...it's just a go-it-alone kinda thing.
Oh well, I have all of you and my hubby, so I'm sure things will be okay.
...and how are you faring these days? (Now that I've written a book about myself...I give you one little measley line).LOL I'm being such a wuss...and just making a big old donkey out of myself. So sorry.
If you would like to just chat about yourself sometime....believe it or not...I really can listen!
My Love and Hugs,
Bev
I'm ashamed to admit this but that's one reason I have not been to see them in so long. I believe the last time I saw them was around the time I was dx'd, ( a little less than a year ago), and the negative vibes were so strong I felt that my life was literally draining from my body.
chrysanthemum
09-17-2002, 07:10 AM
[deleted]
[This message has been edited by chrysanthemum (edited 01-09-2003).]
[This message has been edited by chrysanthemum (edited 01-09-2003).]
bconn
09-17-2002, 07:40 PM
Hey Bev52,
I also understand about having to cut yourself off from family & friends that are in denial. When you first find out about this bi-polar adventure, you yourself are in denial while at the same time, thinking "Thank God!" because I thought I was crazy. Now I know I can do sometime about it.
Educate yourself as much as possible, then try to get your family & friends to educate themselves. Write down your feelings, the mixed up stuff you are going through and let them read how your mind is working. It can be an eye-opener for them. They will be able to see that your very mind is contradicting itself all the time... feel good about feeling guilty? feel bad about saying no? feel horrible about feeling well... You know what I mean!
Hang in there, you've got a trip ahead of you that you really can make it through if you change the way that you handle things. It will be up to you because you are the one that has to do it.
We are all here for you. bconn, aka Brenda
I also understand about having to cut yourself off from family & friends that are in denial. When you first find out about this bi-polar adventure, you yourself are in denial while at the same time, thinking "Thank God!" because I thought I was crazy. Now I know I can do sometime about it.
Educate yourself as much as possible, then try to get your family & friends to educate themselves. Write down your feelings, the mixed up stuff you are going through and let them read how your mind is working. It can be an eye-opener for them. They will be able to see that your very mind is contradicting itself all the time... feel good about feeling guilty? feel bad about saying no? feel horrible about feeling well... You know what I mean!
Hang in there, you've got a trip ahead of you that you really can make it through if you change the way that you handle things. It will be up to you because you are the one that has to do it.
We are all here for you. bconn, aka Brenda
Kokopelli
09-18-2002, 05:53 PM
Thanks to everyone for the excellent responses..
I used my own experiences to receive some good answers and learn a little more about the differences.. I wanted someone elses questions answered and felt I could not help without a little knowledge. Btw if you want to read davids story it's on the schitzophrenia forum under my brother.. I have received so many caring answers that I could not answer even living with him. thank you all and Starcat hopefully this topic can answer more for you and your situation or anyone elses.. Hugs sweetie
Koko
I used my own experiences to receive some good answers and learn a little more about the differences.. I wanted someone elses questions answered and felt I could not help without a little knowledge. Btw if you want to read davids story it's on the schitzophrenia forum under my brother.. I have received so many caring answers that I could not answer even living with him. thank you all and Starcat hopefully this topic can answer more for you and your situation or anyone elses.. Hugs sweetie
Koko