lulu222
08-24-2006, 03:16 AM
I had my cervical epidural on the 10th and fortunately was given anesthesia. I thought I was having some success as far as pain relief but the pain behind my right shoulder blade is back.
Not being able to get a straight answer out of my neorosurgeon about this pain I am wondering if anyone here knows anything about it. The MRI show dics bulge at C-4 and C-5 with a possible herniation and bone spurs on both sides where the disc is protruding.
When the Doctor showed me the problem areas they seem much higher on the neck than where I am feeling the worst of the pain. It is approx. mid-shoulder blade and travels down to the bottom of the inner edge of the shoulder blade. The Doctor indicated this pain is from the bone spurs but something doesn't seem right about that.
I do have pain in the neck area where I gather the MRI shows the problem but it's sporadic and much more tolerable than this shoulder blade pain.
Any ideas? Thanks!
Not being able to get a straight answer out of my neorosurgeon about this pain I am wondering if anyone here knows anything about it. The MRI show dics bulge at C-4 and C-5 with a possible herniation and bone spurs on both sides where the disc is protruding.
When the Doctor showed me the problem areas they seem much higher on the neck than where I am feeling the worst of the pain. It is approx. mid-shoulder blade and travels down to the bottom of the inner edge of the shoulder blade. The Doctor indicated this pain is from the bone spurs but something doesn't seem right about that.
I do have pain in the neck area where I gather the MRI shows the problem but it's sporadic and much more tolerable than this shoulder blade pain.
Any ideas? Thanks!
Sponsor
jitteryme
08-24-2006, 12:25 PM
None of this makes sense to me either. According to my MRI, my problem areas are bulging discs, DDD and bone spurs at C-5/6 and C-6/7. But this is not where I feel pain either. All of my pain is right at the base of my skull where the head and neck meet. The MRI shows absolutely nothing wrong at this area. I can't figure it out.
Maybe someone else can shed some light on why this happens.
Maybe someone else can shed some light on why this happens.
bdh7
08-24-2006, 01:10 PM
Hi...I also have had a lot of pain along my shoulder blade exactly where you describe it. My physical therapist couldn't find any muscle knots there, so she felt it was referred nerve pain from my neck. I remember reading somewhere that this is a common area for referred pain from the c6 nerve root (my disc and spurring problems were at C5, C6, C7). My MRI sounded very similar to yours. I'm a little over two weeks out from ACDF surgery; I still get some of the shoulder blade pain, but hope it will go away eventually! It's not fun having a knife in your back, is it? For me, the neck pain started after the shoulder blade pain, and gradually worsened over time until sometimes I felt like I could barely hold my head up...especially if I had been driving or riding in a car for any length of time. I was getting tension headaches along the back of my head, also. It's not uncommon for a neck injury to cause problems all over the neck/head area, as well as radiating pain to arms/hands. How long did the relief from your epidural last? If it was days or weeks, it may be worth looking in to having another one. Mine only lasted a few hours, until the anesthesia wore off! But I know others have had success with epidurals and have been able to put off surgery...sometimes indefinitely.
Hope you find some answers to help with your pain!
Take care,
Donna
Hope you find some answers to help with your pain!
Take care,
Donna
ICC
08-24-2006, 03:00 PM
don't we have it all going on? same here 3 bulged disks, pinched nerve, stenosis and a huge bone spur. i get a headache ever time some dr. moves my neck. my neck doesn't ususally hurt most of my pain is in my shoulders, the center of my shoulder blades and into my shoulder blades. i was told the bone spur is doing this. there is talk of surgery but i haven't had any injections or PT on my neck yet so i don't know if it will help or just prolong the inevitable.
Jimmy B
08-24-2006, 06:00 PM
Lulu,
From all the questions I have asked my Doc, I believe bdh7 is correct. This sharp pain is the same type of pain I am experiencing and I was told this pain is from the C-6 nerve root being pinched. My pain is significantly worse at night (as we all seem to share) and radiates into the bicep region also. I too have numbing of my left thumb and forefinger and now wrist area as well. (Seems to be spreading upward the longer I wait). I have my first NS appt. this Monday and can't wait to see what he says about all of this. I do know that nerves take a while to heal, so hang in there. I am also going to consider having an epidural before considering any kind of surgery. What kind of meds are you taking for the pain?
JAB
From all the questions I have asked my Doc, I believe bdh7 is correct. This sharp pain is the same type of pain I am experiencing and I was told this pain is from the C-6 nerve root being pinched. My pain is significantly worse at night (as we all seem to share) and radiates into the bicep region also. I too have numbing of my left thumb and forefinger and now wrist area as well. (Seems to be spreading upward the longer I wait). I have my first NS appt. this Monday and can't wait to see what he says about all of this. I do know that nerves take a while to heal, so hang in there. I am also going to consider having an epidural before considering any kind of surgery. What kind of meds are you taking for the pain?
JAB
ICC
08-24-2006, 08:42 PM
i'm glad you mentioned the bicep pain. i always forget to mention it becasue it isn't sinking into me that this is from my neck and not a pulled bicep. my left shoulder is the worse. sore to even touch. if i try to lift my arm the pain is in my armpit, shoulder, bicep even sometimes goes down the front of my shoulder. i take flexeril and ultracet when the pain is really bad. since i'm not much of a pill popper i don't take them all the time. my rheumatologist gave me some sort of shots in the trapezios(?spelling) muscles on monday and the relief i have felt in my neck and shoulder blades is unreal. i have fibro so i am sure the muscles were tight as a drum. see my pcp tomorrow and am oing to ask him if he has the notes yet from rheumi. i am curious what he did and why becasue it's the most relief i have had in 2 years.:blob_fire
lulu222
08-25-2006, 03:11 AM
The epidural was two weeks ago and I only had some temporary relief in the shoulder blade area. It may have helped my neck. I'm not certain because I wasn't having too many problem days with the neck. Not in comparison.
It does feel like a knife with pinchers on it back there. I can't see living like this. As far as meds go, I can't take anything at work because my job won't allow it. I have to take Lunesta and either a muscle relaxant or Elivil at night to sleep. I am trying some herbal remedies too.
I did have success with acupuncture but it is really expensive. Twice a week became too much of a financial burden and you just get sick and tired of Doctor's offices. I may have to start again because it has been the only thing that worked. PT had very temporary results. They did teach me some good exercises though.
When I called the Neurosurgeon's office to schedule my post-epidural visit, I was told I can't get in until the end of October. Is this typical? I am considering getting a second opinion but I get the feeling all of these Doctors might be the same.
ICC, I would be interested in what the shots you received were too. It seems to me like the should be able to shoot something into the area were it really hurts to relieve some pain.
It does feel like a knife with pinchers on it back there. I can't see living like this. As far as meds go, I can't take anything at work because my job won't allow it. I have to take Lunesta and either a muscle relaxant or Elivil at night to sleep. I am trying some herbal remedies too.
I did have success with acupuncture but it is really expensive. Twice a week became too much of a financial burden and you just get sick and tired of Doctor's offices. I may have to start again because it has been the only thing that worked. PT had very temporary results. They did teach me some good exercises though.
When I called the Neurosurgeon's office to schedule my post-epidural visit, I was told I can't get in until the end of October. Is this typical? I am considering getting a second opinion but I get the feeling all of these Doctors might be the same.
ICC, I would be interested in what the shots you received were too. It seems to me like the should be able to shoot something into the area were it really hurts to relieve some pain.
debysu46
08-25-2006, 09:24 AM
Hi everyone, I had acdf 4 yrs ago at c6-c7 with bone from hip, hardware. Now I have 2 herniated disc at c-4 c-5, bone spurs, spinal stenosis, DDD. I had an epidural a week ago and I did not get any relief at all, in fact I feel much more pain lately. More so at night, I wake up with severe migraines and neck hurting severely. I constantly have burning pain between shoulder blades and fluctuates between both arms. Also have leg pain. I am just one big pain. I go back to orho next week. I suppose he will order another epidural, as this is under w/c and you do not get the best of treatment. My acdf was not under w/c and I got treated in a very different manner. Surgery is out for me as I did not do well with the last one as during recovery I lapsed into a coma for 4 days due to complications from anthesia. Very frustrated at this time as what my outcome will be for the rest of my life. Now I have been laid off from work also.
Everyone take care
Debbie
Everyone take care
Debbie
ICC
08-25-2006, 02:05 PM
lul222------i believe they were steroid injections but in the muscle not a joint. i will find out definitely this thursday when i see the PM dr. i saw my pcp today and told him too that this is the first time i have had no neck pain in so long i don't remember. i wonder if the bulk of my pain is muscle.
NAPPSIE
08-25-2006, 03:01 PM
I'm curious, am I the only one in the world whose NS says the "cervical" epidurals are dangerous and won't okay them? I don't think I want them anymore anyway, because I'm starting to feel I'll do the surgery, but has anyone else out there run into this? He feels only the cervical are dangerous because of the close proximity to the spinal cord I guess. I know, of course, he's a surgeon so that's what he wants to do..surgery. Nevertheless, I've never seen anyone else say their dr disapproved for safety reasons:confused:
texascritter
08-25-2006, 10:35 PM
Hi. I'm suprised to see any ns that would say they are so dangerious. It's a real common procedure. I was scared to death to have mine done. It did'nt help in fact it caused more pain and it is still here 4 months later. As long as it's done by a skilled doc and done under florscope It is really safe. They put the needle in under a life x-ray and then they guide the needle in and can see where it is at all times. they release a dye to make sure they have the needle at the exact place they are trying to get to before they actually release the medication in. Some people get great results and never have another symptom and some it last years and avoids having surgery all together. Unless you are just dead set on having the surgery it is something worth giving a chance to work. At least that's my opinion. No one reasearched it more than I did and was more scared that I was. I'd do it again if it had worked. I hope this helps. TEXASCRITTER
SpineAZ
08-26-2006, 12:33 AM
I would be concerned about a NS who says ESI's are dangerous becuase they get close to the spinal cord. The reason - cervical surgery of any kind will also get close to the spinal cord. The ESI are far less invasive and a good first step for most people.
It's only my opinion, but the NS seems more interested in surgery than in the right treatment for you. The NS I sas ini 2003 said that he always sees cervical fusion or even just a discectomy as the last choice after all other conservative measures have been taken. I am so glad he did because ESI gave me relief until late 2005.
And of course I don't want to scare you but cervical surgery of any kind has risks. I just can't see that as the first choice unless someone is in an emergency/urgent situation. Again, the spinal cord is just as much at risk in surgery, if not more.
And ESI's take 1 day to recover from, my surgery took 6 weeks for what I call the 'preliminary recovery' as I spent 6 weeks in an aspen brace after the surgery.
Please Please get a second opinion from another NS and possibly a Pain Management doctor.
Karin
C5-C7 ACDF
5/18/06
It's only my opinion, but the NS seems more interested in surgery than in the right treatment for you. The NS I sas ini 2003 said that he always sees cervical fusion or even just a discectomy as the last choice after all other conservative measures have been taken. I am so glad he did because ESI gave me relief until late 2005.
And of course I don't want to scare you but cervical surgery of any kind has risks. I just can't see that as the first choice unless someone is in an emergency/urgent situation. Again, the spinal cord is just as much at risk in surgery, if not more.
And ESI's take 1 day to recover from, my surgery took 6 weeks for what I call the 'preliminary recovery' as I spent 6 weeks in an aspen brace after the surgery.
Please Please get a second opinion from another NS and possibly a Pain Management doctor.
Karin
C5-C7 ACDF
5/18/06
ember919
08-26-2006, 06:35 PM
When the Doctor showed me the problem areas they seem much higher on the neck than where I am feeling the worst of the pain. It is approx. mid-shoulder blade and travels down to the bottom of the inner edge of the shoulder blade. The Doctor indicated this pain is from the bone spurs but something doesn't seem right about that.
Try doing an image search using 'cervical nerve pain' or some similar combination of terms. You should be able to find diagrams that show you how nerve compression at the cervical level affects other parts of your body.
When your doctor refers to "bone spurs", he does, indeed, mean bones spurs in your neck. The pain in your shoulder blade is pain radiating down from the nerves in your neck. I believe the upper back, shoulders, biceps, triceps and fingers are the most commonly affected by cervical issues.
Try doing an image search using 'cervical nerve pain' or some similar combination of terms. You should be able to find diagrams that show you how nerve compression at the cervical level affects other parts of your body.
When your doctor refers to "bone spurs", he does, indeed, mean bones spurs in your neck. The pain in your shoulder blade is pain radiating down from the nerves in your neck. I believe the upper back, shoulders, biceps, triceps and fingers are the most commonly affected by cervical issues.
lulu222
08-31-2006, 02:17 AM
Thanks for the information and I have been learning some things.
I did call another Neurosurgeon to see if I could get a second opinion. The woman I spoke to said to send the MRI's over and she'd call me back. When I mentioned my Doctors name she seemed pretty reluctant about the second opinion thing. My Doctor has a very good reputation here. I think he is too busy though. Most of the time he talks to me with his hand on the doorknob and I leave, after waiting months for an appointment, with most of my questions unanswered. Knowing the kind of money these guys make it's very frustrating.
I did call another Neurosurgeon to see if I could get a second opinion. The woman I spoke to said to send the MRI's over and she'd call me back. When I mentioned my Doctors name she seemed pretty reluctant about the second opinion thing. My Doctor has a very good reputation here. I think he is too busy though. Most of the time he talks to me with his hand on the doorknob and I leave, after waiting months for an appointment, with most of my questions unanswered. Knowing the kind of money these guys make it's very frustrating.
Dutchgirl
08-31-2006, 03:41 AM
Hi Lulu,
I also did years of research on everything just like Texascritter. I started with my pain 3 years ago, and have had unbelievable headaches which I took migraine pills for on a daily basis. I have 4 levels that are degenerative, and 3 levels with herniation, and bone spurs, and stenosis. I have learned a ton over the last 3 years, and mostly from this awesome website.
The pains that I was having from the pinched nerves are: numbness in left arm, and burning on top of arm, numbness in middle fingers, and pinkie finger, stabbing pain in shoulder blade, feeling as if a knife was sawing through the top of my shoulder. The worst were the bad inflammations were the muscles would get so irritated from the nerves being pinched, and they would end up in huge knots, and that would pinch more nerves. I had shooting pain from my neck over my head, which even put pressure on the bridge of my nose, and it would feel like spiders were crawling over my head. I would also get stabbing pain in my jaw that would radiate to my ear, and the trigger points at the base of my skull were so irritated, and painful…. and so on and so on.
I’m just trying to say that when nerves are pinched you can get all sorts of pain shooting in different directions, and one of my doctors said that it was not possible that the pain would radiate to the bridge of my nose. Well guess what! Everyone is wired differently.
I was bound not to have surgery, and self heal, and have tried anything and everything. Did the epidural injection (ESI), and was also scared to death, but it wasn’t that bad. Unfortunately it did not help me, and actually triggered another inflammation. :eek: From all my research I have learned that it will either help a great deal or not at all. I have had trigger injections in the base of my skull, and have had a nerve conduction study done. I have had lots of physical therapy, and if you find a good therapist that understands how the discs works, then you can definitely find some relief. At least it helped me a lot with the trigger points.
I finally got to a point where I could not take it anymore, and had the surgery done approx. 2 weeks ago. Can’t tell yet if it will help a lot or not, but I have at least not had any bad headaches. Also if you have a surgeon that’s too busy, I would definitely go somewhere else! That’s how I finally stuck with my last doc. I was a little bit worried, because he is a newer neurosurgeon, and pretty young, but he really listened, and took so much time explaining everything on my MRI, and also explained everything to my husband. I am really glad that I stayed with him. He even called me at home 2 days after surgery to see how I was doing.
Oh also the doctor that came highly recommended to me also couldn’t see me until October, and he also seemed too busy plus the staff members at that office were non-caring, and rude! Always get at least a second opinion.
Anyways I wish you the best of luck, and let us know how it’s going! Keep reading these posts, because it helps a lot.
Take care,
Annette :wave:
I also did years of research on everything just like Texascritter. I started with my pain 3 years ago, and have had unbelievable headaches which I took migraine pills for on a daily basis. I have 4 levels that are degenerative, and 3 levels with herniation, and bone spurs, and stenosis. I have learned a ton over the last 3 years, and mostly from this awesome website.
The pains that I was having from the pinched nerves are: numbness in left arm, and burning on top of arm, numbness in middle fingers, and pinkie finger, stabbing pain in shoulder blade, feeling as if a knife was sawing through the top of my shoulder. The worst were the bad inflammations were the muscles would get so irritated from the nerves being pinched, and they would end up in huge knots, and that would pinch more nerves. I had shooting pain from my neck over my head, which even put pressure on the bridge of my nose, and it would feel like spiders were crawling over my head. I would also get stabbing pain in my jaw that would radiate to my ear, and the trigger points at the base of my skull were so irritated, and painful…. and so on and so on.
I’m just trying to say that when nerves are pinched you can get all sorts of pain shooting in different directions, and one of my doctors said that it was not possible that the pain would radiate to the bridge of my nose. Well guess what! Everyone is wired differently.
I was bound not to have surgery, and self heal, and have tried anything and everything. Did the epidural injection (ESI), and was also scared to death, but it wasn’t that bad. Unfortunately it did not help me, and actually triggered another inflammation. :eek: From all my research I have learned that it will either help a great deal or not at all. I have had trigger injections in the base of my skull, and have had a nerve conduction study done. I have had lots of physical therapy, and if you find a good therapist that understands how the discs works, then you can definitely find some relief. At least it helped me a lot with the trigger points.
I finally got to a point where I could not take it anymore, and had the surgery done approx. 2 weeks ago. Can’t tell yet if it will help a lot or not, but I have at least not had any bad headaches. Also if you have a surgeon that’s too busy, I would definitely go somewhere else! That’s how I finally stuck with my last doc. I was a little bit worried, because he is a newer neurosurgeon, and pretty young, but he really listened, and took so much time explaining everything on my MRI, and also explained everything to my husband. I am really glad that I stayed with him. He even called me at home 2 days after surgery to see how I was doing.
Oh also the doctor that came highly recommended to me also couldn’t see me until October, and he also seemed too busy plus the staff members at that office were non-caring, and rude! Always get at least a second opinion.
Anyways I wish you the best of luck, and let us know how it’s going! Keep reading these posts, because it helps a lot.
Take care,
Annette :wave:
texascritter
08-31-2006, 07:10 AM
My doc was like that. Seemed to busy to answer my questions. I went in with a list of questions and told him he was'nt touching me untill he answered my questions. I told him I'd set up an appt. just to get these questions answered if that was what i needed to do. He sat down and answered every question I had. It worked for me. mabey it will for you. Either way get a second opinion. You would be amazied at the different answers you will get for different doc. I even went to a third just to see if any of it was the same. Got three different answeres and still have yet to have surgery unless I'm sure someone knows for sure what the problem is. Hope this helps. TEXASCRITTER
lulu222
09-01-2006, 04:42 AM
It all helps TEXASCRITTER. Everyone is wonderful on this site. I am very happy I discovered it. I tried the list of questions. If I asked one that gave him a reason to leave the room, he wouldn't come back. I think he only has time for people he knows he is doing surgery on.
Annette-We are in the same city. I do hope your surgery was a success. I will look for updates. I don't know if you can mention names here but can you tell me your Neurosurgeon's initials? I can probably figure it out. I can relate to the headaches too. I've had migraines all my life but the last couple of months I can't get the amount of Imitrex I've required. I hate taking it everyday though, if there is something to make that pain go away, I'm going to take it. Enough is enough.
Just read your surgery posts Annette. I hope you are taking it easy. You are very brave.
Annette-We are in the same city. I do hope your surgery was a success. I will look for updates. I don't know if you can mention names here but can you tell me your Neurosurgeon's initials? I can probably figure it out. I can relate to the headaches too. I've had migraines all my life but the last couple of months I can't get the amount of Imitrex I've required. I hate taking it everyday though, if there is something to make that pain go away, I'm going to take it. Enough is enough.
Just read your surgery posts Annette. I hope you are taking it easy. You are very brave.
Dutchgirl
09-12-2006, 02:42 PM
It all helps TEXASCRITTER. Everyone is wonderful on this site. I am very happy I discovered it. I tried the list of questions. If I asked one that gave him a reason to leave the room, he wouldn't come back. I think he only has time for people he knows he is doing surgery on.
Annette-We are in the same city. I do hope your surgery was a success. I will look for updates. I don't know if you can mention names here but can you tell me your Neurosurgeon's initials? I can probably figure it out. I can relate to the headaches too. I've had migraines all my life but the last couple of months I can't get the amount of Imitrex I've required. I hate taking it everyday though, if there is something to make that pain go away, I'm going to take it. Enough is enough.
Just read your surgery posts Annette. I hope you are taking it easy. You are very brave.
Hi Lulu,
I am so sorry that it took so long to reply, but I wanted to check first to see if it was OK to give out the doctor's name with the moderator, and my doctor, and both said that it was fine. His name is Dr. Pingree (neuro surgeon), and he is at St. Marks. I hope that helps, and I hope that you are doing well. Please let me know how you are doing.
~Annette :wave:
Annette-We are in the same city. I do hope your surgery was a success. I will look for updates. I don't know if you can mention names here but can you tell me your Neurosurgeon's initials? I can probably figure it out. I can relate to the headaches too. I've had migraines all my life but the last couple of months I can't get the amount of Imitrex I've required. I hate taking it everyday though, if there is something to make that pain go away, I'm going to take it. Enough is enough.
Just read your surgery posts Annette. I hope you are taking it easy. You are very brave.
Hi Lulu,
I am so sorry that it took so long to reply, but I wanted to check first to see if it was OK to give out the doctor's name with the moderator, and my doctor, and both said that it was fine. His name is Dr. Pingree (neuro surgeon), and he is at St. Marks. I hope that helps, and I hope that you are doing well. Please let me know how you are doing.
~Annette :wave:
NAPPSIE
09-12-2006, 03:12 PM
I am learning much from this thread. I'm taking the advise of ((kross426 ))and others here and am seeing a new NS tomorrow. Because to some NS's surgery is the ONLY answer. thank you all and good luck....especially to you ((( dutchgirl)))) on your recovery.
SpineAZ
09-13-2006, 03:44 AM
NAPPSIE:
Let us know how the new doctor is and how the appointment goes.
Karin
C5-C7 ACDF 5/18/06
Let us know how the new doctor is and how the appointment goes.
Karin
C5-C7 ACDF 5/18/06
NAPPSIE
09-15-2006, 02:55 PM
Just a quick post cuz going to be gone a week. Saw the new NS. He's head of his department at the same hospital as the previous NS I saw. The previous one felt CERVICAL esi's are too dangerous. Plus, once he knew I wasn't ready to do the surgery, he gave me the bums rush.
This new NS took a lot more time to talk with me. My herniation isn't huge but it's infringing of course on the nerve and that's where my pain comes from. I also have some bone spurring. He said he also does not recommend ESI's in the cervical area because he hears every few months from a colleague regarding someone who had one performed and something slipped so the person is now a paraplegic. Bottomline, better be sure of the facility where you have it done. Also, of course, if as mentioned in a different post, you have actual structural problems, the esi only is a bandaid so to speak.
This is what he said and that some people get relief from traction ( I unfortunately, did not). And aside from all that only surgery TRULY corrects the situation. Hey, guess this post isn't so short afterall,( sorry) I guess we all know that's the only cure and some don't get cured by it. Although mine would be simple....just one level. :dizzy: Maybe if I finally get the nerve, I'll wonder what in heck I was waiting for....all this pain since 2004!!!!! I liked the new NS better as I can actually converse with him. He, of course, says the ACDF would be simple and I might even go home the same day :rolleyes: So take care all, and thanks for all your advice and concern...this is an excellent site.
This new NS took a lot more time to talk with me. My herniation isn't huge but it's infringing of course on the nerve and that's where my pain comes from. I also have some bone spurring. He said he also does not recommend ESI's in the cervical area because he hears every few months from a colleague regarding someone who had one performed and something slipped so the person is now a paraplegic. Bottomline, better be sure of the facility where you have it done. Also, of course, if as mentioned in a different post, you have actual structural problems, the esi only is a bandaid so to speak.
This is what he said and that some people get relief from traction ( I unfortunately, did not). And aside from all that only surgery TRULY corrects the situation. Hey, guess this post isn't so short afterall,( sorry) I guess we all know that's the only cure and some don't get cured by it. Although mine would be simple....just one level. :dizzy: Maybe if I finally get the nerve, I'll wonder what in heck I was waiting for....all this pain since 2004!!!!! I liked the new NS better as I can actually converse with him. He, of course, says the ACDF would be simple and I might even go home the same day :rolleyes: So take care all, and thanks for all your advice and concern...this is an excellent site.