TiredMan
05-21-2003, 04:26 PM
I was dx'ed with depression as early as 13, and at 28 dx'ed with BP type II. I've had a lack of success with medications/PT. I also have many specific examples of extreme selfishness and just downright meanness I can remember from myself as early as 6 years old.
I kick myself constantly about these memories because I "know" that the actions that created them were wrong, but I am beginning to wonder if my symptoms are a result of my struggling to be a good person when I am a bad person at the core. It sure would explain a lot.
I kick myself constantly about these memories because I "know" that the actions that created them were wrong, but I am beginning to wonder if my symptoms are a result of my struggling to be a good person when I am a bad person at the core. It sure would explain a lot.
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iduno
05-22-2003, 10:17 AM
hi,
if you feel bad about the stuff you did then you are good. if you dont feel bad about the stuff you did then you dont know the pain you caused so you are still not bad.you just cant feel others pain.if you could you wouldnt do it. everyone is just learning really and ghandi said everyone is just doing what they think is right. i think everyone is just doing what makes them feel better.
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
if you feel bad about the stuff you did then you are good. if you dont feel bad about the stuff you did then you dont know the pain you caused so you are still not bad.you just cant feel others pain.if you could you wouldnt do it. everyone is just learning really and ghandi said everyone is just doing what they think is right. i think everyone is just doing what makes them feel better.
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
HoosierBj
05-22-2003, 10:56 AM
Iduno, that was great! I have grabbed me a big ol' virtual cup of coffee (tea if anyone prefers) and am sitting here just enjoying your reply to TiredMan's post...
One of the few benefits of being a bi-polar that I've discovered is that our moodswings tend to take us to places in the brain that most people don't ever reach, and I love to "have a cuppa" with someone who thinks deeply!
For me, I lean more towards the spiritual angle of things. I think that we are all flawed from the git-go and our natural inner drive is to try to become better and strive to become as Good as we possibly can. If we do a bad thing we want to fix it, apologize for it or feel guilty about it. Some find it easier to just do bad...
Those who feel no guilt or have no conscience(i.e. Ted Bundy)are the one's I still struggle to understand.
But for TiredMan, please remember that there is alot of very real brain chemistry going on behind the anger & irritability of someone with bi-polar disorder.
Much of your anger and rage may actually be directly a result of your disorder and/or anti-depressents. Do check with your doctor about it, o.k.?
And just think.. at least you don't have to add the irritibility of hormonally induced PMS to bi-polar disorder! That is your silver lining, and I don't know how my dear husband has survived with me!!!
Welcome to the Boards, and please come back often because you're already qualified here to let someone else know that you DO know exactly what they are going thru!!
Bj
One of the few benefits of being a bi-polar that I've discovered is that our moodswings tend to take us to places in the brain that most people don't ever reach, and I love to "have a cuppa" with someone who thinks deeply!
For me, I lean more towards the spiritual angle of things. I think that we are all flawed from the git-go and our natural inner drive is to try to become better and strive to become as Good as we possibly can. If we do a bad thing we want to fix it, apologize for it or feel guilty about it. Some find it easier to just do bad...
Those who feel no guilt or have no conscience(i.e. Ted Bundy)are the one's I still struggle to understand.
But for TiredMan, please remember that there is alot of very real brain chemistry going on behind the anger & irritability of someone with bi-polar disorder.
Much of your anger and rage may actually be directly a result of your disorder and/or anti-depressents. Do check with your doctor about it, o.k.?
And just think.. at least you don't have to add the irritibility of hormonally induced PMS to bi-polar disorder! That is your silver lining, and I don't know how my dear husband has survived with me!!!
Welcome to the Boards, and please come back often because you're already qualified here to let someone else know that you DO know exactly what they are going thru!!
Bj
TiredMan
05-22-2003, 05:18 PM
Well, iduno, while it took a couple reads, there was a lot of good stuff in there for me to think about, so thank you. I identified in particular with the concept about a lot of this being a vicious, self-feeding spiral. That first step seems unreachable to me though, I must admit - I have serious doubts as to whether I am even capable of the emotion of love.
Thanks for the welcome, Hoosierbj. If much of my anger et al does indeed come from my illness, it started at an extremely early age. I didn't think BP symptoms manifested themselves until the teens. I'm not actually seeing a doc right now, I kind of had a falling out with my last one over a dispute of choice of meds, plus I finally "gave" my employer an excuse to cut off my benefits, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do in terms of future treatment.
I am glad I found this place - people that have any understanding about this kind of thing are few and far between. Thanks again.
Thanks for the welcome, Hoosierbj. If much of my anger et al does indeed come from my illness, it started at an extremely early age. I didn't think BP symptoms manifested themselves until the teens. I'm not actually seeing a doc right now, I kind of had a falling out with my last one over a dispute of choice of meds, plus I finally "gave" my employer an excuse to cut off my benefits, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do in terms of future treatment.
I am glad I found this place - people that have any understanding about this kind of thing are few and far between. Thanks again.
iduno
05-22-2003, 06:06 PM
thanks hoojerbj,you are great, :)
i do go on. i want to believe in the spiritual bit too and about evolution.. however you are better off not believing in one thing or another too much or particularly cos the middle way is more balanced and there are no absolute truths anyway. that last sentence being a contradiction in itself.
what if we identified ourselves a energy conduits? to do with your thinking on sprituality we would then be able to take in bad and try to give out good ie to do with physics change negative into positive.just another way of putting things.
i always want proof.i love the hado thing that is about the effect good things have like the word thank you which changes the water into beautiful water chrystals. dr emoto photographs them and they look really good. i love that idea especially when you consider that our bodies are mainly water so everythnig could effect it. but i would want proof. i would have to see it with my own eyes with a microscope.
so how is tiredman? even tireder now after me going on.!! i hope not. there is a theory that says there is no bad.that sins are mistakes. or naughtiness.you could be depressed and that always makes you think bad things. every time.
all the best hooj and tman. :) :) :bouncing:
theres a good book called conversations with god that is by a person who does automatic writing and that is very good for going on about things like good and bad.
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
i do go on. i want to believe in the spiritual bit too and about evolution.. however you are better off not believing in one thing or another too much or particularly cos the middle way is more balanced and there are no absolute truths anyway. that last sentence being a contradiction in itself.
what if we identified ourselves a energy conduits? to do with your thinking on sprituality we would then be able to take in bad and try to give out good ie to do with physics change negative into positive.just another way of putting things.
i always want proof.i love the hado thing that is about the effect good things have like the word thank you which changes the water into beautiful water chrystals. dr emoto photographs them and they look really good. i love that idea especially when you consider that our bodies are mainly water so everythnig could effect it. but i would want proof. i would have to see it with my own eyes with a microscope.
so how is tiredman? even tireder now after me going on.!! i hope not. there is a theory that says there is no bad.that sins are mistakes. or naughtiness.you could be depressed and that always makes you think bad things. every time.
all the best hooj and tman. :) :) :bouncing:
theres a good book called conversations with god that is by a person who does automatic writing and that is very good for going on about things like good and bad.
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
Ozymandias
05-22-2003, 09:48 PM
Seems to me your thinking is polarized (excuse the pun, please). If you are Catholic, then you believe that saints are good - that's a pretty hard standard to live up to. I believe that there are people who are opposite as well -- Hitler, Stalin, Ghengis Khan, Lumumba. That's a hard standard to compare yourself to as well.
Most of us are somewhere in between, we do good things, we do bad things. Each action we take moves us in one direction or the other on this spectrum (kinda like Karma?)
Your state, therefore is not fixed (assuming you're not a mass murderer - I find that hard to forgive) and all you can do is try to move yourself in the right direction.
------------------
Oz
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.
-- Horace Smith
Most of us are somewhere in between, we do good things, we do bad things. Each action we take moves us in one direction or the other on this spectrum (kinda like Karma?)
Your state, therefore is not fixed (assuming you're not a mass murderer - I find that hard to forgive) and all you can do is try to move yourself in the right direction.
------------------
Oz
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.
-- Horace Smith
HoosierBj
05-22-2003, 10:36 PM
Excellent pun, Oz!
And Iduno, I have taken a virtual trip to the grocery store to treat myself to some virtual Fritos to enjoy with a serious perusal of your Energy theory.
I've always thought of one's Energy as being apart from the physical body - and that your energy (or your soul if you are Christian) is what survives our death.
TiredMan, sadly enough they are finding bi-polar disorder in kids at younger and younger ages. And some bi-polar kids are cross diagnosed with ADD - you can imagine the sheer enormous energy/anger they must have at times...
If Sprout checks in here she may share some of her knowledge, too. She's a Mom to a bi-polar child, and I just love her.. I have gained such a better idea of what my own Mom must have gone through when I was a kid with this disease from reading her posts.
You seem like you have alot of stories locked up TiredMan. Please share when you can, probably about the time you get tired of listening to all of ours!!!!
Thanks for putting up with US, o.k.???
And Iduno, I have taken a virtual trip to the grocery store to treat myself to some virtual Fritos to enjoy with a serious perusal of your Energy theory.
I've always thought of one's Energy as being apart from the physical body - and that your energy (or your soul if you are Christian) is what survives our death.
TiredMan, sadly enough they are finding bi-polar disorder in kids at younger and younger ages. And some bi-polar kids are cross diagnosed with ADD - you can imagine the sheer enormous energy/anger they must have at times...
If Sprout checks in here she may share some of her knowledge, too. She's a Mom to a bi-polar child, and I just love her.. I have gained such a better idea of what my own Mom must have gone through when I was a kid with this disease from reading her posts.
You seem like you have alot of stories locked up TiredMan. Please share when you can, probably about the time you get tired of listening to all of ours!!!!
Thanks for putting up with US, o.k.???
iduno
05-23-2003, 07:32 AM
hi ozymandias,
the writing is polarized to express certain ideas because the question was about good and bad.its a good basis for a debate.
there is subjective and objetive reality and a thing called 'above dualism'. anyway there are no absolute truths which is a contradiction in itself! :round:
cheers all the best!
hi tiredman,
sorry to here about your doc and your job.
hope you are feeling okay and a bit better. hope you are not thinking too much especially while you are down ,as you can see there are no answers it just depends how you look at things and thats a lot to do with mood.
so anyway wishing you all the best and thinking of you.cheers all the best! :)
hi bj
i love your virtual reality fritos tea and coffee. i like cakes myself!! cheers all the best! :)
:wave:
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dance.gif
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
the writing is polarized to express certain ideas because the question was about good and bad.its a good basis for a debate.
there is subjective and objetive reality and a thing called 'above dualism'. anyway there are no absolute truths which is a contradiction in itself! :round:
cheers all the best!
hi tiredman,
sorry to here about your doc and your job.
hope you are feeling okay and a bit better. hope you are not thinking too much especially while you are down ,as you can see there are no answers it just depends how you look at things and thats a lot to do with mood.
so anyway wishing you all the best and thinking of you.cheers all the best! :)
hi bj
i love your virtual reality fritos tea and coffee. i like cakes myself!! cheers all the best! :)
:wave:
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dance.gif
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-23-2003).]
TiredMan
05-23-2003, 07:44 PM
I wasn't think my overall state is fixed so much as thinking that people are born with certain attributes that are unalterable, and some of those traits may be highly undesirable to society at large. That is one of the reasons I chose the word bad rather than evil. I do not think I am an evil person. As has been mentioned, the mistakes I've made wouldn't torment me so if I was. OTOH, for some people, being a "good" person seems to come almost naturally. For me, I've had to try so hard to be a "good" person, for as long as I can remember, that it seems like I am forcing/faking it. That is the distinction I was trying to describe.
Imagine the energy/anger a bipolar child has... good luck out there, Sprout - I was a maelstrom of a child.
Imagine the energy/anger a bipolar child has... good luck out there, Sprout - I was a maelstrom of a child.
HoosierBj
05-23-2003, 10:21 PM
Ok Iduno... I'll have to grab a "v"cake and see what you think about the following in regards to TiredMan's really excellent questions.
I understand the debate of good and bad, bad & evil. But if you add the faulty brain chemistry of someone with bi-polar disorder what does that do to the whole issue of "born with" vs inherent vs environment, etc?
If TiredMans's (or ANY of our) anger and rage is due to the disease, then is it beCAUSE of the disease only or is it exaggerated from our usual state of not so perfect?
That's it. I'm headed for some virtual amaretto. Haven't discussed stuff like this in years!
Bj
I understand the debate of good and bad, bad & evil. But if you add the faulty brain chemistry of someone with bi-polar disorder what does that do to the whole issue of "born with" vs inherent vs environment, etc?
If TiredMans's (or ANY of our) anger and rage is due to the disease, then is it beCAUSE of the disease only or is it exaggerated from our usual state of not so perfect?
That's it. I'm headed for some virtual amaretto. Haven't discussed stuff like this in years!
Bj
iduno
05-24-2003, 07:04 PM
hi everyone,
hi bj hope you saved some ameretto and cake for me!
your question about the brain chemistry thing and the external factors and environment etc and bi polar. i think it is all connected interactive and accumulative with factors which can very it such as drugs family support love counselling etc etc.
money would help a lot i think.if only for the security.(and the ameretto and cakes of course!.)
tired man, i can relate a lot to this good bad identity concept. And also to the social conformity acceptance or rejection thing.
you sound like a very honest person.hope you are doing ok
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-26-2003).]
hi bj hope you saved some ameretto and cake for me!
your question about the brain chemistry thing and the external factors and environment etc and bi polar. i think it is all connected interactive and accumulative with factors which can very it such as drugs family support love counselling etc etc.
money would help a lot i think.if only for the security.(and the ameretto and cakes of course!.)
tired man, i can relate a lot to this good bad identity concept. And also to the social conformity acceptance or rejection thing.
you sound like a very honest person.hope you are doing ok
[This message has been edited by iduno (edited 05-26-2003).]