I spent YEARS going to Bipolar Support Groups, and the "taboo" subject was SEX. Bipolars tend to be innately "horny", yet if that subject was ever mentioned the meeting was quickly re-directed. I felt that was of little service to those suffering from the disorder. Freud placed extreme emphasis on sexuality, and as THE primal motivating force it seems ludicrous to exclude it from an adult discussion of living with Bipolar Disorder.

A huge conundrum emerges in that the Bipolar longs for sensual satisfaction yet has horrible problems with relationships. Sounds like a formula for frustration if I've ever heard of one.

In many ways, that's been a lot of the story of MY life... Constantly searching for that elusive satisfying relationship (that can last more than a few months or years).

Stress reduction is essential to dealing with Bipolar Disorder. One of the most effective stress reducers is satisfying sex. Satisfying sex works best with an enthusiastic partner. Bipolars have difficulty cultivating the relationships necessary to maintain enthusiastic partners. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/round.gif And so the pattern can go on and on and on and...

Good luck. I hope we all can find good answers and relationships to enjoy our days and nights as much as possible...

There, I finally got a chance to voice what I had to bottle-up for so long... I hope it didn't offend too many people out there !!!

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Ex-Pharmaceutical Guinea Pig...

(The above passage is an excerpt from a reply I made to another posting... I thought I might give it a try as its own post. Does anyone else out there have similar thoughts to share regarding these ideas ? )

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Ex-Pharmaceutical Guinea Pig...

[This message has been edited by Ben There (edited 09-09-2003).]

Ben,
I think SEX in general is a "taboo" subject here in the United States. Not many people feel comfortable talking as open as others about it. Do you talk to your therapist about sex? Or was it your therapist you were talking about that changed the subject? If it was your therapist, then perhaps you are in need of another one, who is being paid to listen to whatever it is you want to talk about.

Thank you for opening up this subject. The thing I have figured out through trial and error, plus therapy, is I have to fix and be comfortable with myself as a person with bipolar illness, before I can commit to any long term relationship with anyone. I have done enough hurting of other people in my life and I don't want to hurt anyone else.

LB

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When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.

[This message has been edited by littlebernier (edited 09-09-2003).]

[This message has been edited by littlebernier (edited 09-09-2003).]

Thanks "Little..." http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/cool.gif

As with many folks who have dealt with this illness for years, I have gone through more than a few thereapists and "shrinks"... It's a tough balance to strike - finding a good rappore and ability to listen -with limited prejudice (not to mention the 'swinging door" policies that can stem from HMO contracts).
Bi Polars quite often consider "risky" behaviors. Those who conformed to the educational establishment "rigors" {far enough to be credentialed to counsel and/or medicate} are more than likely majority "conformist" (not readilly accepting of the "wayward" tendencies of others). At least, that has been my experience.
I have NEVER had a therapist or physician (psychiatric or otherwise) who was comfortable with a relaxed and open discussion of the "real world".
Conversely, since I do need access to their services, it's a matter of doing the best with what's available.
Oddly enough, I met a forensic psychiatrist by chance "socially" who had a frank and awe-inspiring discussion about how he admired the drives (particularly sexual) of those hypomanics (particularly Bi Polar I) whom he had encountered. He even wanted to sneak me into an APA meeting in San Francisco (disguised cleverly as a "shrink" {perhaps wearing "shrink wrap" ?}) ~ which was to deal with Bi Polar "issues". It made me wonder IF, in the course of playing their professional "roles", most might not feel it too risky to "let their hair down" (if even so inclined) ~ and give honest feedback. Instead, it's probably safest to just employ the olde "status quo" theories - advise to stay between the lines and not make waves.

I had hoped that the more round-table environment of the "support group" would facilitate more open discussion. Not unlike our current central government, politics within the "group" threw a majority "right wing" and conservative "Christian" control over everything. Sexuality discussion was rebuffed instantaneously. I left after 2 1/2 years of frustration.

Not to sound like a whiner.

I openned this "post" in hopes that any others out there who had a similar desire for discussion might consider responding. I greatly appreciate the feedback. And yes, I agree that this country operates on an overly prudish basis. I don't feel that is particularly healthy, in many respects. It certainly seems (to me) to be at odds with our basic selves.

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Ex-Pharmaceutical Guinea Pig...

I always thought it was interesting that hypersexuality was a symptom of Bipolar disorder and I always got stuck with the BORING side effects like rapid speech and catatonia...

Oh well, it may be that I didn't have that particular symptom at all, or maybe the morals hammered into me since I was a small child outweighed the promiscuity I always hear so much about.

Not that I didn't act like a normal kid in the 70's, but I still managed to contain it to monogomous dating rather than 4 guys in one night.

One can always wonder what it would have been like tho... (!!)

Thanks for a great topic. I never have problems with sharing - just wish I HAD something to contribute!!

[This message has been edited by HoosierBj (edited 09-09-2003).]

Hoosier...

"Thanks for a great topic. I never have problems with sharing - just wish I HAD something to contribute!!"

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Alas - you did contribute ~ Thanks !!!


[This message has been edited by Ben There (edited 09-09-2003).]

i am bipolar and sometimes my sexual desire will get the best of me. when my ex and i was togther we would do it so much that we both were so tired we could barely move. I remeber getting such a ruch I felt like I was high!!!!!! Talk about orgasm this man would make me *** over and over like you would not believe. We would do it in public. We spent one weekend in a motel room doing it all weekend long and I mean all weekend long. Neither one of new we had so much fluids inside us. I can talk about it with my theparist.

Having experienced the "rush" ~ AND satisfaction (as you stated, with your "ex") ~ do you find yourself frustrated in the present, when you look back ??? I know that I certainly DO !!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bouncing.gif

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Ex-Pharmaceutical Guinea Pig...

[This message has been edited by Ben There (edited 09-11-2003).]

A-ha Ben Obiwan,
I have located and resurrected your sex post.
Now I must say that I agree. Americans are probably one of the most prudish nations. I attended a conference once where the Brits were all drunk and lewdly dancing on the tables, the northern europeans were laughing the "warmer climate" europeans were shocked and the yanks just stared horrified liuke rabbits in headlights.

In the UK we don't do dating.
We meet people like this: we go to the pub or club with friends. We get very drunk (we brits do rather TOO much of this), we chat someone up, we take them home, we have sex, in the morning we find out their name ( http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif). quite often we chat, have breakfast then go our separate ways. And if you bump into someone you once shagged you just say "hi", it's no big deal.

Sometimes, we might get their number and arrange to see them again, but more usually we just keep hanging around together until we realise we are an item. Its all very straightforward. Sex is quite easy, relationships are trickier.. At least thats the way I did it. Perhaps I'm just a bit of a wacko. Perhaps other Brits will give you a different story.

You said that
" Those who conformed to the educational establishment "rigors" {far enough to be credentialed to counsel and/or medicate} are more than likely majority "conformist" (not readilly accepting of the "wayward" tendencies of others)."

I have not really had too much problem with that over here. Although docs and shrinks tend to raise their eyebrows at my exploits, they seem to quite enjoy hearing it. It's usually a bit of a giggle for both of us. But then I had one CPN who tried to kiss me.... this was not good and definitely not professional, at the time I was especially vulnerable too. Makes me cross thinking about it.

Also, thinking about this more seriously. For me satisfying sex in a steady relationship it pretty much impossible. Sex has to be bad to be good. It's the chase, the illicit nature (danger even) which makes it exciting. Personally sex which is morally okay is never much fun.

I suppose to some extent I choose to be in a relationship for the other non-sexual benefits. I have effectively written off sex for love. I REALLY REALLY hope my husband never reads this.!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope this stuff is usefull to you, it's meant to be serious folks !

Yes, "thoyts", yes... don't stop... I'm com--municATING !!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

Thanks ever so much for resurrecting this strand. I knew I left this stuff somewhere (I have NO list of my posts and replies - don't care to have my unhappy spousal unit go "over-the-top" !!!). Yes, we share that sentiment - in different ways.

This (my current) relationship was grounded in "love", as opposed to comfortable "shagging". Unfortunately, as you pointed-out, the comfortable "shagging" failed to follow !!! That was over a decade ago (Hoosier got some of the details in a different segment area)...

Reading your candid responses HAS helped me VERY MUCH. I no longer feel so "full of fecal matter as a Christmas Turkey" ~ as many in this culture would have me believe. I feel like a "Brit" out of place !!!

THE FOLLOWING IS DIRECTED AT HOOSIER, AND ANYONE ELSE WHO READS THIS AND CAN RELATE... (forced disclaimer)...

Why oh why would ANY Bi-Polar who dreads manic psychosis DRINK COFFEE ??? Caffeine, in any form, acts as a MAJOR UPPER on the path to cyclic wonders. My non-supportive spousal unit attempts DAILY to get me to sit over a cup or 3 of "java" ~ perhaps only so she can later berate me about my supposed irritability and general demeanor. My advice - stay away from that "stuff". I'm somewhat suprized that such "stimulating" advice hasn't been garnered from the "learned professionals". It is POTENT STUFF !!!

Still out here - not just over (There)... http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

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"Stranded"

Another serious ponit: do you thinkthat it would be better to have practical, business like marriages built on love and commitment and joint responsibility AND a loveron the side? or regular prostitutes.

I think that from the sex perspective that if I could shag around without hurting my husband it would be ideal. Open relationships??? I have no experience of them and i believe that 9.9 times out of 10 everyone gets hurt. But it seems like a good idea superficially. Agree?

NOT very many people seem to want to talk about this even here. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif. just you 'n' me baby.

[This message has been edited by thoyts (edited 10-21-2003).]

[This message has been edited by thoyts (edited 10-21-2003).]

Isn't it amusing that to post my message about sex I have to click on "submit". http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

wellllllllllllll....I dont even know what to say i guess...different meds have made me respond differntly in this way. lithium was terrible in this area...could not stay awake...before meds i could not concentrate on anything wich was annoyingggggg now it ok...on depakote...Im the luckiest girl in the wolrd though to have a loving and understanding honey like mine...nomatter what med, side effect or mood i am in, he works with me and each and EVERY TIME i am "HAPPY" thank u honey....

I'm down to a cup or two of "real" coffee in the morning. No pop anymore except as a rare treat.
Am about to dial down to "Half-caff" a.k.a. abomination that still may serve to prevent that awful caffeine withdrawal (ice pick in the middle of the forehead) feeling.

Just a thought, Thoyt. NO one will mess with your sex oriented posts if you put them on the "Sexual Health" boards here. You can let Ben know that you've added one on there. The Moderators are pretty strict about sex posts anywhere else, EXCEPT I believe they understand that the Bipolar related sexuality belongs here since it is a symptom of Bipolar Disorder...

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif

hoosier, you said
"it may be that I didn't have that particular symptom at all, or maybe the morals hammered into me since I was a small child outweighed the promiscuity I always hear so much about."

I think probably the former. I had a VERY strict Christian upbringing, and my urges still got the better of me. And I'm unipolar.Though like I said in my "mother /prozac induced stress" post I really Do have doubts about this. Incidentally I would appreciate opinions.

Unipolars aren't meant to have any supersexual urges are they, according to "the shrinks rule book".
My parents once arranged family therapy with a Christian counselling service. Where basically my mother, father, counsellor and eldest sister sat and interrogated me about my sexual habits. It was THE worst experience of my life. My other sister backed me up (bravely) and told them they were religious extremists and that I was a normal 16 year old. All this was done without using the word "SEX" once. My mother wept the whole time and made comments about girls who are referred to as doorknobs (because every man has handled her ).

This is a very very very painful memory.

At the end of the longest hour of my life the "counsellor told my parents that I was a nymphomaniac. SERIOUSLY !!!!

I don't know if that is a real disorder or whether a family therapist is qualified to make such a diagnosis but that's what they said. And i hadn't really got going at that point http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif. Now if they'd told me I was a nymphomaniac a year or two later I MIGHT have taken it seriously. though I don't suppose my sexual behaviour would have changed any.

Funnily enough they didn't arrange counselling when I cut myself up a year earlier, nor when I ODed and had my stomach pumped. Obviously sexually deviancy is far far more worrying than suicide attempts.

The fact that I have shagged approx 200 men does not pain me at all. I have no regrets. I wish I could do it all again (them all again) and I'd like to add a few more to the list. Alas, I am now middle aged and happily married.
Perhaps when I move to El Dorado !?......... http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/love2.gif

Hoosier, thanks for the tip. I shall pop over to the sexual health boards. I don't want to offend anyone.

I've always agreed that I just didn't have the hypersexual symptom. No one has every single one. And besides, I belive in the chemical imbalance theory. If I was going to have the hypersexual stuff I would have it no matter what my conservative background was.
I'm not shocked by very much anymore, but I do know the moderators have left our little part of the world pretty much alone and I'm betting we all like it that way!!
I stop over at the Sexual Health Boards once in awhile. Sometimes there's an interesting thread..
Didn't mean to sound older than I am, Thoyt!!

hey hoosier,
i don't think you sound old ! (I'm 33 by the way)
I really AM afraid of offending anyone. (especially a moderator) i've already had my ONE slap on the wrist.
I love this board. I feel really at home.
Most of the time I just feel chirpy and chatty and excited to be here, but evry now and then I realise that I have thought about something or analysed something that i had put to the back of my mind.For ever. Supressed.

I think I am achieving more here than I ever did with therapy. If I got kicked off these boards I would be devasted. And I would miss everyone terribly.

Just to throw in my two cents, I have a terribly strong sex drive, and it has pretty much destroyed every one of my relationships. Most of the time, it's not too bad, but there are times when I want to jump on everyone I see (and if I could get away with it, I did).

I didn't really think about it until I saw this thread, but I think since I have finally been receiving the appropriate drug treatment, the sex issue has not been too bad. I still think, as of now, it is a bit of a problem though.

Yes, I agree the U.S. is very prudish, but if inquiring about sexual habits it is part of mental health treatment, it is detrimental to patients to be coy. My psych doc has never asked me once about sexual problems, but should have.

Right-on Steve, Write-on !!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/t_up.gif

You have absolutely validated this strand, and its placement within the Bi-Polar area.

<<The preceding message was an unpaid solicitation to any "moderator" moderating this segment. Your continued tolerance of this discussion is appreciated.>> ~ Ben (way off strand for awhile) http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

PS (to Steve) ~ Imagine that, just maybe, since all the little Anti-Depressants mess with libido ~ then the honored professionals out there just ASSUME that they've taken away enough of OUR sex drive(s) for THEM not to have to deal with it ?

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"Stranded"

[This message has been edited by Ben There (edited 10-22-2003).]

What am I gonna do eh?
this strand has made me all hyper.I have awoken feelings that were probably best left snoozing. I haven't stopped pacing up and down for hours. ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!
My heart is racing and I am completely absorbed in thoughts about this subject.
How do you stop the unrequited lust. Lithium? Bromide???


sorry about that folks. went a bit looney for about 6 hours. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by thoyts (edited 10-22-2003).]

Great topic Ben!!! I think you really hit home with this.Alot of responses because it is a problem for us.Just can't get enough!!!When I go manic I really get bad,surprises me sometimes.It is really hard when your husband just looks at you like your crazy or something.I'm gald to hear though that I'm not alone with this, it is something I don't ever talk about to anyone,even my therapist.I guess I don't want him to know.Although he has made little comments to me about it but I just always thought he was just being flirty.It is really a good topic to talk about,you can see just how many of us have this problem.Especially when you stop antidepressants...I always thought it was just me who had this problem.Its really good to know I'm not alone.Your getting lots of responses to this one Ben, again "good topic".

I have read all these post and I see no one as mentioned welbutrin. I have been on it for almost 3 years. It is the ONLY antidepressant that dose not cause sexual disfunnction ( for me). Welbutrin actually cause me to have a higher drive! Which is good for me since mine has always been low. Even though my drive is low Ive had those permiscous times prior to my diagnosis. Now that I know where they come from I can control them much better. Before I blammed it on my bad sex life w/ the ex husband. Now I know it's just part of who I am. My P dr is very open w/ me re: sexual problems involving my meds. I guess Im lucky to have a good Dr.
Jen

lucky u r

I have OCD (possibly bipolar, I questioned that in another post) but I also have hypersexuality. Luckily, for me, my boyfriend has bipolar disorder and he has MAJOR hypersexuality, too. He just CANNOT get enough. It is the biggest high that he can get, so he says, and it's the same for me. We'll have sex until there is such physical exertion that it's impossible to continue, and we'll wake up 8 hours later and want to start over. Although I'M not sure if I'm bipolar, I have done many sexual things in my past that I really regret due to being overly horny, but I also think that has something to do with the tranquilizer addiction that I had. But anyway everyone, I understand hypersexuality, I definitely do. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

hyper sex drive thats 1 4 star trek

[This message has been edited by oBIwan2 (edited 10-31-2003).]