Dear Friends (those who are HIV+ and those who are not): Please understand that I write this inquiry mostly to ascertain whether or not I am being hypersentive about this issue and not to disparage anyone's way of thinking. So, your patience and guidance is so deeply appreciated: frequently, when people write they relate an experience in which they have asked their new partner about their HIV status and the report is that the partner will tell them that they are "clean." Or, someone will begin their post with "I am clean but...yadda, yadda, yadda."

Now, since I am HIV+, I have attempted to lead people in the direction that the obverse of "clean" is "dirty" and that for people to suggest that "clean" means that they are HIV neg, and that people who are HIV+ are, obversely, "dirty." So, am I nit-picking about this? Should I just let it go....?
Because, while I want people to understand and be educated about this disease, I also want them to be sensitve to people (ie: me) who have this disease. That's all...just let me know and I'll check my neuro-trasnsmitters at the door. Bless you all, chris :wave:

I agree with you that the terminology is outdated and insensitive. Implying that a person is dirty because they were unfortunate enough to contract a real PIA virus is unkind even if there was no malicious intention. That is my perspective as an HIV negative person.

Yeah , Chris, I hear ya on the "dirty" VS "clean" thing ......Like me being HEP C + and everyone else that has it, we now have the " dirty" disease ( not just clean or dirty status) . per se..... I have heard it SO much and its SO much of a degrading feeling to actually hear or read someone say that, ya know !?.....Im already beating myself up because I have not a clue as to how long Ive had this nor how exactly I got it......All people think about HEP C is that homeless IV users ( junkies) are the only ones who get it from sharing used rigs ...the ones who shoot up in the alley or whatever...And Im NOT that person nor have I ever been. You would never suspect me to have anything from my looks , yet I have the " dirty disease"....

I just hate it and wish people would be more sensitive when they talk about other peoples health status , that they know nothing about !

Spirit, thank you for the info about the tea. Ive never heard of that and this weekend Im headed to the health store just for the stuff........Speaking of which, until then, how many mgs of milk thistle do you recommend by capsule , per day ?? Ive been taking Spring Valley ( Wa;Mart) 175 mg a couple times a day....I sure wish the sleepies would leave and Mr Sandman would only visit when its time to go to bed !! ( I feel I need to nap several times a day and would if I could !! HA !!)

Thanks guys , for letting me on my soap box again !!!

Flower

the way i see it...
clean means your sober from drugs alcohol
dirty to me means your still using.

that's what i think of when i hear clean/dirty. i dont think of HIV or AIDS.
i personally dont like it being used for HIV. it kind sounds like people are referring to nasty people when they say DIRTY .
JMO.

i hear what your saying cflas.

I never really thought about it like that.
For me, when I had my encounter I asked the person if he had anything, he replied by telling me "no, I'm clean". Later of course that turned out to be a lie and he in fact was infected by HIV and intentionally put my health in harms way.

Anyway, I totally see your point in regards to clean vs. dirty, however, remember that "clean" is often used as a slang word for disease free. I would find it odd if someone asked if one was "dirty" or claimed to be "dirty". Either way, I believe that the main point of this point is in regards to societal undertone of HIV phobia, homo-disease, miseducation, etc...

Personally and ethically I think it’s a social injustice that the government will not properly educate society about this disease. All we ever hear about is "gay" people getting HIV in the US or about statistical information on AID/HIV in Africa! Its like they are trying to further this disease from society by all means possible. I know about the parallel between abstinence and our current government, however, this is no longer a "religious or political" issue. This is a socio-crisis issue. People need to be educated for prevention.

Enough ranting on this issue...I'm sure we all have beaten this issue to death in our heads and on the internet. Personally I feel the only true solution is to actively do something. I know I will be forever be affected by this even if end up being HIV negative or positive. I hope that in the future I will both financially and personally be able to further this cause of education, prevention and research for a cure. I just pray that more fortunate/wealthy people in this world follow Bill Gates and Warren Buffetts footsteps. Sad that people such as them give more money for HIV/AID research/prevention then most countries. God bless us all who have been either directly or indirectly affected by this tragic disease and are trying to learn and change for the better... And to the those who lie about there known status and put others in harms way, may you never sleep a sound/peaceful night again.

Chris-

I am so glad you started this thread! I was wondering the same as you.

As im getting older i noticed the english terms have changed right out from underneath me!

Clean to me is- showered and smelling good!

Dirty to me is- you had a good mud fight or you were playing in the dirt!

I do not understand where the respect has gone. Have you ever seen the movie The Green Mile? Well i love that movie and i just watched it again lastnight. In that movie John talks about "How mean everyone is to each other in this world" And he couldnt of said it better. People are cruel. People tend to say things before thinking. Which results into hurt feelings. Its pretty sad people dont even "think" anymore.
When my son was 6 there was this little boy in his class that had an accident in his pants. The WHOLE class was laughing at him and that little boy ran to the bathroom crying. My son ran after him and sat in the bathroom with him telling him that everything was gonna be ok..and he also told him how he doesnt understand why the other kids had to do that.
And not that long ago i was driving down the road with my son and my 1 year old daughter and these older kids were sitting on a bridge. the kid waved and i didnt wave back and he yelled "you B****!! I turned around of course and i pulled over and said "why would you call me such a thing? Do you see i have kids with me? and now they have heard someone call their mom that nasty word" he never said one word back. so i hope i kinda taught him a little respect.
Children simply dont understand that thats not right unless they are "taught" But whats the excuse for adults that do this?
I just dont understand where that little word (that means so much) has gone in most people now days and that word is "Respect"
The english language and termonology has been slashed beyond repair. I remember coming home from an amusement park one night and this car load of people were gonna let us out (the lines to leave were horrendous) and when we went to go after she was gonna let us she yelled to us "you want out? "how does it feel to want?" It took all i had to not get out of our truck and pulverize her (because she was of age). As for voilence rates being up shy high this year..its a wonder why!. when you get people that say the most stupidest things because THEY think it is funny.
I remember is school i was taught (many many moons ago) Treat others how you would like to be treated.
Do they not teach that anymore? Its sad. it really is.

:p CFLAS,
Like i said in previous posts my admiration of you is absolutley fenominal, I will say it again. I dare someone to call me Dirty! I am one of the most cleanist people around, I exercise, my house is immaculate and I eat better than the average JOE(Excuse the PUN)It's unwarranted in a age of where people need to understand what the HECK is going on and the knowledge that is out ther on television, schools, and our greatest enemy the internet(Symptom sites)this site however is a wonderful place and it is no excuse to not know that HIV can stike the youngest and oldest. People who are HIV Positive are NOT dirty and in retrospect we are probably the cleanest people on earth. Not because of our status, but, because we are normal human beings living a daily life and doing the best we can to stay the course and things happen whether you believe in Karma or the good Lord above, things and happen like HIV. I know I just joined the wonderful folks who are HIV Pos, I do however understand where some of the folks come from and may it be their background or understanding of HIV? HIV has made it's way into every single culture, every single city,town or village. Unfortunately, we cannot control a small communities thinking of that their town or group could never be stricken with HIV. To some it is impossible, therefore, they automatically call it dirty!! "You sleep around, you do drugs, you don't take precautions on and on and on." It just seems to happen and I wish one day and trust me I honestly believe it is going to happen until there is a cure. Some folks are just going to refer to it as being "Dirty", but, will finally come to the realization that it could happen and can happen to anyone!! That is absolutely no excuse, but, we know it is going to happen. Until the world becomes educated and accepts that this can happen to anyone, I think were going to have to live with that stigma. But, I appreciate you for writing that, it is a thorn in ones side who is on the right track to getting back on their feet having to deal with the Dirty Stigma. Including my own two emormous feet:) Thanks for writing that CFLAS and Ronnie that was a great analogy of what goes on nice post.
I can't stop writing what a great bunch of folks are here on this site. It is most humbling

Thanks, guys, I really appreciate your responses. And, I'm just really glad to know that I'm not being hypersensitive. You always make me feel very grateful that you all are a part of my life. chris

God bless us all who have been either directly or indirectly affected by this tragic disease and are trying to learn and change for the better... And to the those who lie about there known status and put others in harms way, may you never sleep a sound/peaceful night again.

I agree with you. I don't know if I can understand the level of selfishness needed to sleep with someone while lieing about your status.

~~~~~

Anyway, Chris, I agree with you. I don't think you are being overly sensetive at all. Referring to HIV- as "clean" is insensetive, but I do think lots of people just aren't aware of how it comes across...(ie HIV+ is "dirty").

I see how it's offensive, because the first thing that comes to mind for many is probably clean and dirty.

I don't think it's meant that way though. At least, that's not how I read it. We use the term "clean" to mean different things all the time. We could use clean to refer to whether something is clean or dirty, but we also use to to say people have a clean driving record, a clean criminal record, a clean bill of health, or that one might start over with a clean slate. When people use "clean" in reference to their HIV status, I take it as being used in the same way we use the word for the above examples. I don't think it's really being used in terms of clean and dirty.