SteveGn
09-28-2006, 01:01 PM
This is somewhat of a continuation from what I wrote in the thread titled "Crazy" by sponsoredbynobody. If this subject is of interest to you, then I encourage you to read my post there also.
I think that negative sensations (anxiety/panic, for example) should not be pushed away, they should just be allowed to run their course. However, when it comes to negative, anxiety producing thoughts, such as the "what if's," or negative mental images, continuing to think about them is only going to lead to more fear, and continued intrusion of those thoughts. I do think, however, that it is important to first make peace with those thoughts. In other words, sit down with yourself and identify the type of thoughts that are causing you problems (Some would refer to this as inviting them in). Then plant the idea firmly in your head that those thoughts are nothing more than BS, and even see clearly why they are not worthy of your further attention. Then make it a mental habit to NO LONGER think about them.
Whenever you have even the slightest hint of one of those thoughts, then change the mental channel, or go into what I call the "just be" mode (not thinking of anything, except maybe the breath, if that's practical at the moment). Remind yourself - if you feel the need to at that moment - that you've already reconciled in your mind that that thought is not worth your attention, and then think about something else, or go into the "just be" mode.
By the way, the "just be" mode can be extremely important in the event that you do start to feel anxiety or panic coming on. This gives the sensations a chance to fade away, because you will not be further aggravating the problem by feeding into the anxiety with more thoughts. Learning to NOT feed into the anxiety is an important tool to develop, and the practice that I'm suggesting helps to accomplish that.
In the early going, you may have to change the mental channel countless times in a day.....so be it, just do it! - you'll get better and better at it because you'll be developing a stronger mind, as well as your nervous system will be becoming less sensitized. The first days and weeks were the most challenging for me, but it has paid off enormously. Thoughts are energy, like everything else. When a person stops feeding into them, they start losing their power, and they then stop coming around as much, and with less influence. Also, when you start seeing that those thoughts are losing their power through practicing what I've suggested, then your confidence and hope will increase, because you start to see that you are in control of things. Increased confidence and hope are a big issue when dealing with anxiety/panic and unwanted thoughts. Hang in there and be a warrior! It will pay off for you both short term and long term. Steve
I think that negative sensations (anxiety/panic, for example) should not be pushed away, they should just be allowed to run their course. However, when it comes to negative, anxiety producing thoughts, such as the "what if's," or negative mental images, continuing to think about them is only going to lead to more fear, and continued intrusion of those thoughts. I do think, however, that it is important to first make peace with those thoughts. In other words, sit down with yourself and identify the type of thoughts that are causing you problems (Some would refer to this as inviting them in). Then plant the idea firmly in your head that those thoughts are nothing more than BS, and even see clearly why they are not worthy of your further attention. Then make it a mental habit to NO LONGER think about them.
Whenever you have even the slightest hint of one of those thoughts, then change the mental channel, or go into what I call the "just be" mode (not thinking of anything, except maybe the breath, if that's practical at the moment). Remind yourself - if you feel the need to at that moment - that you've already reconciled in your mind that that thought is not worth your attention, and then think about something else, or go into the "just be" mode.
By the way, the "just be" mode can be extremely important in the event that you do start to feel anxiety or panic coming on. This gives the sensations a chance to fade away, because you will not be further aggravating the problem by feeding into the anxiety with more thoughts. Learning to NOT feed into the anxiety is an important tool to develop, and the practice that I'm suggesting helps to accomplish that.
In the early going, you may have to change the mental channel countless times in a day.....so be it, just do it! - you'll get better and better at it because you'll be developing a stronger mind, as well as your nervous system will be becoming less sensitized. The first days and weeks were the most challenging for me, but it has paid off enormously. Thoughts are energy, like everything else. When a person stops feeding into them, they start losing their power, and they then stop coming around as much, and with less influence. Also, when you start seeing that those thoughts are losing their power through practicing what I've suggested, then your confidence and hope will increase, because you start to see that you are in control of things. Increased confidence and hope are a big issue when dealing with anxiety/panic and unwanted thoughts. Hang in there and be a warrior! It will pay off for you both short term and long term. Steve
Sponsor
anxiousinnj
09-28-2006, 01:32 PM
wow- very helpful- thanks so much Steve.
I have to get "in the mode"- going to try very hard. : )
anxiousinnj
I have to get "in the mode"- going to try very hard. : )
anxiousinnj
sponsoredbynobody
09-28-2006, 07:24 PM
Yes, I agree we don't have real control over our emotions butwe have total control (whether or not we realize it) over our thoughts that produce those emotions.
NEGATIVE THOUGHTS AWAY!
Don't fight the anxiety, but train your mind to ignore negative thoughts.
NEGATIVE THOUGHTS AWAY!
Don't fight the anxiety, but train your mind to ignore negative thoughts.
SteveGn
10-02-2006, 04:29 PM
You're welcomed, anxiousinnj.
Well put, sponsoredbynobody.
I just wanted to add something to my above post. This technique makes it easier to get in the "just be" mode, to get the mind off of negative thoughts, and to calm and desensitize the nervous system.
The idea is to consciously slow your movements down. When the physical body slows down, then the mind tends to follow. Also, by consciously slowing your movements down, a certain amount of concentration is needed or you will find yourself back to moving too quickly out of habit. Therefore, if the concentration is focused on slowing down, then that pulls the mind away from unwanted thoughts, and brings you to the present moment, or "just being," i.e. no analyzing, monitoring, questioning, judging, labeling, etc.
In our hurry-up society we tend to want to move quickly which causes the mind to jump around and be easily agitated, which, in turn, causes the body, heart, and our system in general to speed up even more, and before we know it our mind and body are experiencing negative symptoms. Think of the anxiety and panic as a sign that changes need to be made in the direction of living a more calm, peaceful, easy-flowing life.
Put another way, you're looking to develop a demeanor or personality to where you're no longer easily agitated, annoyed, angered, afraid, hurried, etc... A calm, peaceful, moment-to-moment flow starts to become more and more commonplace in your life. It takes time, and like everything else, the beginning always seems to be the hardest.
Another benefit to developing this calm, peaceful, "just being" flow is when a scary thought, sensation, or event occurs in your life. Instead of having the usual immediate "uh oh" response, which leads to a worsening of the symptoms, you instead are able to maintain the same calm demeanor you were experiencing. Developing this ability is extremely important.
By practicing keeping your physical movements slow and easy-flowing, you can get on the road to a peaceful existence which includes effectively coping with anxiety and panic.
Well put, sponsoredbynobody.
I just wanted to add something to my above post. This technique makes it easier to get in the "just be" mode, to get the mind off of negative thoughts, and to calm and desensitize the nervous system.
The idea is to consciously slow your movements down. When the physical body slows down, then the mind tends to follow. Also, by consciously slowing your movements down, a certain amount of concentration is needed or you will find yourself back to moving too quickly out of habit. Therefore, if the concentration is focused on slowing down, then that pulls the mind away from unwanted thoughts, and brings you to the present moment, or "just being," i.e. no analyzing, monitoring, questioning, judging, labeling, etc.
In our hurry-up society we tend to want to move quickly which causes the mind to jump around and be easily agitated, which, in turn, causes the body, heart, and our system in general to speed up even more, and before we know it our mind and body are experiencing negative symptoms. Think of the anxiety and panic as a sign that changes need to be made in the direction of living a more calm, peaceful, easy-flowing life.
Put another way, you're looking to develop a demeanor or personality to where you're no longer easily agitated, annoyed, angered, afraid, hurried, etc... A calm, peaceful, moment-to-moment flow starts to become more and more commonplace in your life. It takes time, and like everything else, the beginning always seems to be the hardest.
Another benefit to developing this calm, peaceful, "just being" flow is when a scary thought, sensation, or event occurs in your life. Instead of having the usual immediate "uh oh" response, which leads to a worsening of the symptoms, you instead are able to maintain the same calm demeanor you were experiencing. Developing this ability is extremely important.
By practicing keeping your physical movements slow and easy-flowing, you can get on the road to a peaceful existence which includes effectively coping with anxiety and panic.
gxpark1234
10-02-2006, 04:39 PM
could you guys give me some examples of your scariest thoughts?? im just wondering and i have weird/scary thoughts and i get scared.. thanks
toxxct
10-02-2006, 09:59 PM
Gxpark1234,
thoughts such as losing control in your life, dying, the list goes on...
I haven't been on the site for a while as i've been doing a bit of an experiment with myself...sounds like fun huh.
Seriously though i've found a great way for myself to get over my anxiety. I seemed to be for weeks just going in complete circles with no success. I than discovered that the way to rid myself or atleast lessen the tingling, anxiety, scared feelings was to re-inforce my belief system in myself.
Simular to what you guys are talking about, when you get into those uh oh moments. Use positive affirming messages tuned to what is scaring you into an attack.
it's a great launching point I'm sure you've all at some point tried this or thought about trying it. Positive affirmations if used correctly can change your mind set completely. Just like a negitive thought is given a place to grow in your mind, why not replace that thought with a postive one. What i've done is everytime i get a negitive feeling, thought i use my trusty positive reinforcment and within minutes i'm feeling way better. This might not work for everyone right away, it isn't a pill replacement. Its just another set of tools to help us get through this crap and back to the people we deserve to be.
thoughts such as losing control in your life, dying, the list goes on...
I haven't been on the site for a while as i've been doing a bit of an experiment with myself...sounds like fun huh.
Seriously though i've found a great way for myself to get over my anxiety. I seemed to be for weeks just going in complete circles with no success. I than discovered that the way to rid myself or atleast lessen the tingling, anxiety, scared feelings was to re-inforce my belief system in myself.
Simular to what you guys are talking about, when you get into those uh oh moments. Use positive affirming messages tuned to what is scaring you into an attack.
it's a great launching point I'm sure you've all at some point tried this or thought about trying it. Positive affirmations if used correctly can change your mind set completely. Just like a negitive thought is given a place to grow in your mind, why not replace that thought with a postive one. What i've done is everytime i get a negitive feeling, thought i use my trusty positive reinforcment and within minutes i'm feeling way better. This might not work for everyone right away, it isn't a pill replacement. Its just another set of tools to help us get through this crap and back to the people we deserve to be.
sponsoredbynobody
10-03-2006, 12:20 AM
I see everything through the filter of an obsession of mine when I have bad anxiety, so everything I think see or do is auto-analyzed and negatively concluded as a symptom of some mental illness.
When I am overstimulated or over tired I have bipolar when I analyze my perceptions I am psychotic when I close my eyes and try to sleep but cant cause I get weird images behind my eyelids (WEIRD ONES, like patterns, scary creatures in my imagination, horrifying ugly people, etc)I have bipolar and schizophrenia.
When I go to the bar I have to keep firm watch over my drink for fear someone will put LSD in it (ridiculous, but I read it happened somewhere) and I will lose control.
I worry about a friend I had who actually had a psychotic episode and explained that he felt a whoosh come oer his brain and fogot who he was and had to remind himself over and over again he was the son of so and so, so when I get depersonalization I think Im going psychotic.
The list is endless.
I read some guy sees in 2D so when I see a car across the street I 'imagine' it is actually that size and I am seeing in 2-D and then I think oh this is psychotic.
Anxiety is really a weird experience, it almost is like being on a drug, since every little thought you have is taken so seriously you convince yourself its true, all the while knowing it can't be.
I just ignore those BS thoughts now, since I feel better I am getting better and better at it. When you are in the HOLE, as I have been in but didn't even realize before, it seems impossible to get out, but you dug yourself in there didn't ya???
And you can undo it and get back simply by undoing those thoughts.
Anytime I see or hear something bad on TV now, or am tempted to read a gross story or horror story or tragedy, I blink off and put down that tabloid crap. Its tempting for some reason, I think it appeals to a darker side in us, but we always have a choice, and we always have a choice with what we choose to think too.
Ever notice when you feel good, and you are positive, it just kind of builds up into this unshakable confidence you knew you always had and wondered how you could ever question it? And then you start questioning it and before you know it you are anxious!?
Well thats my goal. To get back to that guy, and I WILL do it by simply doing one thing. Focus on the positive and ignore the crap.:D
When I am overstimulated or over tired I have bipolar when I analyze my perceptions I am psychotic when I close my eyes and try to sleep but cant cause I get weird images behind my eyelids (WEIRD ONES, like patterns, scary creatures in my imagination, horrifying ugly people, etc)I have bipolar and schizophrenia.
When I go to the bar I have to keep firm watch over my drink for fear someone will put LSD in it (ridiculous, but I read it happened somewhere) and I will lose control.
I worry about a friend I had who actually had a psychotic episode and explained that he felt a whoosh come oer his brain and fogot who he was and had to remind himself over and over again he was the son of so and so, so when I get depersonalization I think Im going psychotic.
The list is endless.
I read some guy sees in 2D so when I see a car across the street I 'imagine' it is actually that size and I am seeing in 2-D and then I think oh this is psychotic.
Anxiety is really a weird experience, it almost is like being on a drug, since every little thought you have is taken so seriously you convince yourself its true, all the while knowing it can't be.
I just ignore those BS thoughts now, since I feel better I am getting better and better at it. When you are in the HOLE, as I have been in but didn't even realize before, it seems impossible to get out, but you dug yourself in there didn't ya???
And you can undo it and get back simply by undoing those thoughts.
Anytime I see or hear something bad on TV now, or am tempted to read a gross story or horror story or tragedy, I blink off and put down that tabloid crap. Its tempting for some reason, I think it appeals to a darker side in us, but we always have a choice, and we always have a choice with what we choose to think too.
Ever notice when you feel good, and you are positive, it just kind of builds up into this unshakable confidence you knew you always had and wondered how you could ever question it? And then you start questioning it and before you know it you are anxious!?
Well thats my goal. To get back to that guy, and I WILL do it by simply doing one thing. Focus on the positive and ignore the crap.:D
SteveGn
10-21-2006, 12:24 PM
Just wanted to bump this up in response to the American vs. European thread. One of my post in this thread deals with slowing down and living more in the present moment which is a very important attribute of the Europeans and most others around the world. This practice has been very helpful for me in dealing with anxiety.
ocdengineer
10-21-2006, 04:21 PM
Steve,
Sounds like you have done a lot of reading into the subject of buddhism. Mindfulness is exactly what you have been describing in your posts. Defined as full attention to present in its purest form with now outside thoughts to distract you. Also, meditation is a good method of practicing thought control. I am not going to lie and say that medicine doesn't have its place because I take Xanax for the panic and it works wonderfully, but I also meditate daily before work as well as exercise regularly which both inprove your quality of life. I agre with all that you have said.
To the post on different negative thoughts people have:
thoughts of getting an illness
thoughts of hurting people you love
thoughts of harm coming to people you love
thoughts of not being able to live a normal life
thoughts of fear that people won't like you
Anti religious thoughts when you are really religious
the list goes on and on and on....
Anxiety and panic can cause thoughts of all sorts. It is a very sneaky disease and always seems to come at you froma different angle to catch you off guard. I agree with the above posts that the best way to improve qulity of life is to practice relaxation techniques as well as mindfulness which is simply another way of saying Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Some people may also need to take meds, but that road can be very scary and frustrating.
Good luck all,
Matt
Sounds like you have done a lot of reading into the subject of buddhism. Mindfulness is exactly what you have been describing in your posts. Defined as full attention to present in its purest form with now outside thoughts to distract you. Also, meditation is a good method of practicing thought control. I am not going to lie and say that medicine doesn't have its place because I take Xanax for the panic and it works wonderfully, but I also meditate daily before work as well as exercise regularly which both inprove your quality of life. I agre with all that you have said.
To the post on different negative thoughts people have:
thoughts of getting an illness
thoughts of hurting people you love
thoughts of harm coming to people you love
thoughts of not being able to live a normal life
thoughts of fear that people won't like you
Anti religious thoughts when you are really religious
the list goes on and on and on....
Anxiety and panic can cause thoughts of all sorts. It is a very sneaky disease and always seems to come at you froma different angle to catch you off guard. I agree with the above posts that the best way to improve qulity of life is to practice relaxation techniques as well as mindfulness which is simply another way of saying Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Some people may also need to take meds, but that road can be very scary and frustrating.
Good luck all,
Matt
catlover4156
10-24-2006, 11:09 PM
Mine are mainly of dead people, cemeteries, graves, etc. I can't even see a TV commercial for a scary movie now without changing the channel--previously, I loved anything frightening! Now the thought of death terrifies me.
stacygee
10-25-2006, 10:12 AM
I've been reading the posts that you guys wrote and I agree whole heartedly on your methods of a peaceful mind. Some of the things I find that really help me are deep breathing when I feel an "attack" coming on and repeating to myself that worrying never solves anything. This gives me a clearer mind to think about what is really bothering me. I no longer take meds because I want to learn to deal with this on my own and reading about what you guys do to get rid of your "attacks" really helps me with my own. Thanks for all the info.:)
bondai
10-31-2006, 04:19 PM
Hi StevenGn, that sounds like great advice, Iam currently using meditation CD`s and do feel that stress and exhaustion realy does play havoc with the mind.we need to slow down and just be!! Easier said than done I know!! To add to my stress I contacted a clinic today offering Cognitive behavoural therapy, the deal was a 45 minute session over the phone for 200 dollars and i needed many weeks of therapy, Also I had to make the long distance call. I obviously did not pursue this offer and will find a local therapist. What you have outlined makes so much sense, I was really getting upset and stressed by my thoughts and now when one comes into my head I try not to react and change the thought and I find it is working.
The other thread as gxpark1234 asked what kinds of thoughts, mine can be of someone I really respect and love doing some thing perverse or of me killing someone I love they are most upsetting, like your mind is trying to shock you!!!
The other thread as gxpark1234 asked what kinds of thoughts, mine can be of someone I really respect and love doing some thing perverse or of me killing someone I love they are most upsetting, like your mind is trying to shock you!!!