Pippinkitty
11-12-2006, 01:16 AM
Not sure what happened except our postings took a turn in a different direction but all related to the fallout of bipolar disorder. Would like to keep contact with others as it gives a continuum at which to view and a support system with familiarity. PippinKitty
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tsohl
11-12-2006, 01:30 AM
Hi Pippin,
Can't we keep posting on your original thread, even though there was a reprimand from the moderator? Hope was explaining about the problems she was having with her son, including a big verbal fight with her husband, and then someone else commented about ...well, you know....It didn't seem off-topic to me, just a little diversion....I was confused by the moderator's comments. Anyway, I'm hear to listen, and help if I can....best, Tsohl
Can't we keep posting on your original thread, even though there was a reprimand from the moderator? Hope was explaining about the problems she was having with her son, including a big verbal fight with her husband, and then someone else commented about ...well, you know....It didn't seem off-topic to me, just a little diversion....I was confused by the moderator's comments. Anyway, I'm hear to listen, and help if I can....best, Tsohl
Pippinkitty
11-12-2006, 01:56 AM
Thanks Tsohl!:wave:
I guess I didn't understand why the thread was "locked" either. I hope we can continue on there at some point. I have grown to lean on the group going through the same things together-different rates and different manifestations but all coming back to the issue of bp.
My daughter, Erika, has started to head into a depression-two days ago. We started working in a bipolar workbook this evening in an attempt to get her mind on something proactive. She said she couldn't focus enough to read but would like it if I read it to her. We agreed to go over a section of a chapter. Her first assignment is to fill out a sheet describing what "normal" feels like to her. She fell asleep because of her meds before she could complete it. While I have truly seen improvement this time it feels as though it is very touch and go right now. Anyway, I'm tired too and hope to see "the group" back together again. Again, thanks for the life-saver. Felt as though I was floating alone. :angel: :wave: (for Ruth) Pippin
I guess I didn't understand why the thread was "locked" either. I hope we can continue on there at some point. I have grown to lean on the group going through the same things together-different rates and different manifestations but all coming back to the issue of bp.
My daughter, Erika, has started to head into a depression-two days ago. We started working in a bipolar workbook this evening in an attempt to get her mind on something proactive. She said she couldn't focus enough to read but would like it if I read it to her. We agreed to go over a section of a chapter. Her first assignment is to fill out a sheet describing what "normal" feels like to her. She fell asleep because of her meds before she could complete it. While I have truly seen improvement this time it feels as though it is very touch and go right now. Anyway, I'm tired too and hope to see "the group" back together again. Again, thanks for the life-saver. Felt as though I was floating alone. :angel: :wave: (for Ruth) Pippin
tsohl
11-12-2006, 02:17 AM
Hello Pippin,
I'm sure the rest of the crew will find their way over to this thread. I didn't realize the old one was locked, but went back and saw what you meant. Hmmmm.
Sorry to hear your excitement about Erika's improvement has waned a tad. I hope tomorrow will be a day moving forward again. Baby steps....best, Tsohl.
I'm sure the rest of the crew will find their way over to this thread. I didn't realize the old one was locked, but went back and saw what you meant. Hmmmm.
Sorry to hear your excitement about Erika's improvement has waned a tad. I hope tomorrow will be a day moving forward again. Baby steps....best, Tsohl.
langlee
11-12-2006, 02:55 PM
Hi Ladies,
I found you! I didn't realize the thread was locked, although I did see the Moderator's comment and didn't quite understand it. All of our comments have been about our children's bipolar disorder.
In any event, it sounds like Erika is still working with you, Pippin, and I'm glad for that. Tiredness seems to be par for the course.
Hopefully, Goody will find us soon.
Love,
Hope
I found you! I didn't realize the thread was locked, although I did see the Moderator's comment and didn't quite understand it. All of our comments have been about our children's bipolar disorder.
In any event, it sounds like Erika is still working with you, Pippin, and I'm glad for that. Tiredness seems to be par for the course.
Hopefully, Goody will find us soon.
Love,
Hope
goody2shuz
11-12-2006, 04:33 PM
Hey, Pippin:wave: I think that the shock of the hospitalization and the adjustment of the meds is what's happening with Erika. You must remember that Erika is just out of the hospital and got the feeling of what stability will feel like and you got a peek into it all being possible. Don't give up....I think that what you are seeing is sort of like the aftermath as in any type of crisis....like when we are in an accident and find out we are going to make it but the reality is that the bruises and effects of the accident aren't felt until a few days later....sort of a delayed reaction. Both you and Erika are feeling that now and I am so glad to share in that hope with you.
I would allow Erika to experience the healing and readjustments with time and patience. WE all know that this is going to entail some ups and downs but nothing like before the right meds were found. So don't be afraid....I think that Erika is just experiencing those bruises and bumpas she didn't realize she had and is happy to know that she has her life back.
I am here for you as another mom walking the same journey. I think in terms of seeking support and updating everyone I will open a new thread that way it is open to all which is the way this forum is run.
Looking forward to sharing in Erika's success in her journey towards stability.
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
I would allow Erika to experience the healing and readjustments with time and patience. WE all know that this is going to entail some ups and downs but nothing like before the right meds were found. So don't be afraid....I think that Erika is just experiencing those bruises and bumpas she didn't realize she had and is happy to know that she has her life back.
I am here for you as another mom walking the same journey. I think in terms of seeking support and updating everyone I will open a new thread that way it is open to all which is the way this forum is run.
Looking forward to sharing in Erika's success in her journey towards stability.
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Pippinkitty
11-12-2006, 10:43 PM
Hello!
Hope, I wanted to respond to your question on the old thread about what I think my have been different this time. This was Erika's 3rd hospitalization and all three were very different. This time we had just upped her Lithium (Lithobid ER) from 600mg/day to 1200 mg/ day about a week or so before. I think the original dosage could have been just starting to kick in. Additionally, the pdoc there apparently gave her resperdal for her psychotic symptoms and upped her dose of Geodon from 60mg/day to 160mg/day. She also said in her 1st therapy session since being released that she knew she was out of control, knew she was manic, and was scared. She actually wanted to be there but couldn't say that-in fact, did quite the opposite. She said she couldn't think anything but everything was going on in her mind. She felt a sense of relief in the hospital. She konked out soon after being admitted which was before she was given any additional medication.
There seem to be so many factors that play into this process and for us other areas were having a doctor who was knowledgeable about this particular thing and my family getting closer to acceptance that this is truly a medical thing. They sent cards to her and cousins made cards. Going on Home and Health Instruction which reduced her stressors immensely.
So I guess I don't have just one thing that I can say was magical. The key thing seems to be putting several things in place, giving her "permission" to be sick and work on getting well, and my husband and I letting her know we understood that she couldn't just "straighten out" but that we believe once her meds are right we have all the confidence in her to do what she wants.
The med thing is huge and for Erika it requires what I deem as pretty hefty amounts for now. Goody has said this many times-stabilization, stabilization, stabilization.
Not to sound like I'm flip-flopping but major increase in meds and pulling out of school have seemed to make a real difference. The other stuff is the smaller but equally important pieces of the current situation/status.
It really was a trauma we went went through and I know you're right Goody in that it's another adjustment. It's just so scarey because it can happen again. It seems we (my little family) keep going through shifts and it takes our minds a little more time to catch up. It'll be okay though. I do have faith.
Glad some of the group is back. I guess I'm not ready to have the line cut from my life boat. Thanks again all! Although i haven't been too visable for a while, I am here for you in any way I can. :angel: :wave: Pippin
Hope, I wanted to respond to your question on the old thread about what I think my have been different this time. This was Erika's 3rd hospitalization and all three were very different. This time we had just upped her Lithium (Lithobid ER) from 600mg/day to 1200 mg/ day about a week or so before. I think the original dosage could have been just starting to kick in. Additionally, the pdoc there apparently gave her resperdal for her psychotic symptoms and upped her dose of Geodon from 60mg/day to 160mg/day. She also said in her 1st therapy session since being released that she knew she was out of control, knew she was manic, and was scared. She actually wanted to be there but couldn't say that-in fact, did quite the opposite. She said she couldn't think anything but everything was going on in her mind. She felt a sense of relief in the hospital. She konked out soon after being admitted which was before she was given any additional medication.
There seem to be so many factors that play into this process and for us other areas were having a doctor who was knowledgeable about this particular thing and my family getting closer to acceptance that this is truly a medical thing. They sent cards to her and cousins made cards. Going on Home and Health Instruction which reduced her stressors immensely.
So I guess I don't have just one thing that I can say was magical. The key thing seems to be putting several things in place, giving her "permission" to be sick and work on getting well, and my husband and I letting her know we understood that she couldn't just "straighten out" but that we believe once her meds are right we have all the confidence in her to do what she wants.
The med thing is huge and for Erika it requires what I deem as pretty hefty amounts for now. Goody has said this many times-stabilization, stabilization, stabilization.
Not to sound like I'm flip-flopping but major increase in meds and pulling out of school have seemed to make a real difference. The other stuff is the smaller but equally important pieces of the current situation/status.
It really was a trauma we went went through and I know you're right Goody in that it's another adjustment. It's just so scarey because it can happen again. It seems we (my little family) keep going through shifts and it takes our minds a little more time to catch up. It'll be okay though. I do have faith.
Glad some of the group is back. I guess I'm not ready to have the line cut from my life boat. Thanks again all! Although i haven't been too visable for a while, I am here for you in any way I can. :angel: :wave: Pippin
tsohl
11-12-2006, 11:24 PM
Hello all,
To keep on going about the meds...and nothing any of you want to hear, but, as you all know intellectually (but not yet emotionally) it can talk a long time to find the optimal combination and dosage. And, you can get to the point where you are doing "better" but there is still the possibility for tweaking a little and feeling even a bit "better." It took the better part of seven years for one of my son's friends to find the right combo that did the trick and didn't have lots of side effects. But it didn't take nearly that long with my son. It also depends on how well you can tolerate what is being prescribed. Son's friend had a hard time with lots of the basic meds....
Goody, hope the weekend turned out ok for Kait's roommate. What's going on with Erin?
And, Hope, I hope things have quieted down a bit at your house. I believe you said you have a meeting scheduled for Monday.... I will hold the right thoughts, hoping you find some answers there.
My thoughts go out to you all as you start another week. best, Tsohl
To keep on going about the meds...and nothing any of you want to hear, but, as you all know intellectually (but not yet emotionally) it can talk a long time to find the optimal combination and dosage. And, you can get to the point where you are doing "better" but there is still the possibility for tweaking a little and feeling even a bit "better." It took the better part of seven years for one of my son's friends to find the right combo that did the trick and didn't have lots of side effects. But it didn't take nearly that long with my son. It also depends on how well you can tolerate what is being prescribed. Son's friend had a hard time with lots of the basic meds....
Goody, hope the weekend turned out ok for Kait's roommate. What's going on with Erin?
And, Hope, I hope things have quieted down a bit at your house. I believe you said you have a meeting scheduled for Monday.... I will hold the right thoughts, hoping you find some answers there.
My thoughts go out to you all as you start another week. best, Tsohl
langlee
11-13-2006, 03:15 PM
Hi All,
Things here have taken another turn. The belligerence of last week has turned into total despair this week and Zac's illness is becoming more and more apparent. I am shifting my thinking, at least for now. All of this time, I have seen him as a well child with a disorder. I really thought we would get him more intensive help, get new meds, and get back on track.
I now know better and am adjusting to the realization that he is sick child who is desperate to be well, but cannot be right now. In many ways, I think this will help me pace myself for the road ahead. It has been so difficult to manage all of the pieces of this and I have to slow down and stop being so deseperate for an immediate solution.
We had a good session with his therapist this morning and she, too, realizes that things have changed for him. We are trying to come up with a new plan of attack and find ways to help him re-socialize and discover the things he loves again. He has been detaching from his life and even his music and his speech program have lost their luster. I think the newness of the IOP has worn off and he is starting to see himself as a mental patient, rather than a teenager with a challenge. We need to change that.
My husband and I also talked about finding a pdoc with more experience with bipolar. Our pdoc is a nice guy and responsive, but he is young and I don't think he has seen alot of bipolar patients. We'd like to find someone who has more depth of experiential knowledge.
We are also becoming more aggressive at looking at private schools. It is clear that Zac is incredibly unhappy at his current school and the thought of going back is a major area of stress. I sat down with him and had him give me his list of priorities of what he would like from a new school and I am going to start talking to some educational consultants.
The financial part of this is becoming overwhelming, especially because we never planned on private high school in addition to college, but I don't know if I can send him back to his public high school in good conscience. It is so ironic because we chose this town due to the outstanding ratings the school system receives. Go figure!
In any event, we had another rough night and we're exhausted, but I am feeling like we are starting a new plan and so I am not as stressed as I was this weekend.
Good to see all of you here again and I hope others will join, too!
Goody, I'm sorry you've hit another rough patch. Keep us posted. Tshol, thanks for expressing your concern about us. I so appreciate it. And, Pippin, thanks for your perspective on what is different this time with Erika. It helps to understand what other parents and teenagers are going through as we all try to wrap our arms around this difficult time in our lives.
Love,
Hope
Things here have taken another turn. The belligerence of last week has turned into total despair this week and Zac's illness is becoming more and more apparent. I am shifting my thinking, at least for now. All of this time, I have seen him as a well child with a disorder. I really thought we would get him more intensive help, get new meds, and get back on track.
I now know better and am adjusting to the realization that he is sick child who is desperate to be well, but cannot be right now. In many ways, I think this will help me pace myself for the road ahead. It has been so difficult to manage all of the pieces of this and I have to slow down and stop being so deseperate for an immediate solution.
We had a good session with his therapist this morning and she, too, realizes that things have changed for him. We are trying to come up with a new plan of attack and find ways to help him re-socialize and discover the things he loves again. He has been detaching from his life and even his music and his speech program have lost their luster. I think the newness of the IOP has worn off and he is starting to see himself as a mental patient, rather than a teenager with a challenge. We need to change that.
My husband and I also talked about finding a pdoc with more experience with bipolar. Our pdoc is a nice guy and responsive, but he is young and I don't think he has seen alot of bipolar patients. We'd like to find someone who has more depth of experiential knowledge.
We are also becoming more aggressive at looking at private schools. It is clear that Zac is incredibly unhappy at his current school and the thought of going back is a major area of stress. I sat down with him and had him give me his list of priorities of what he would like from a new school and I am going to start talking to some educational consultants.
The financial part of this is becoming overwhelming, especially because we never planned on private high school in addition to college, but I don't know if I can send him back to his public high school in good conscience. It is so ironic because we chose this town due to the outstanding ratings the school system receives. Go figure!
In any event, we had another rough night and we're exhausted, but I am feeling like we are starting a new plan and so I am not as stressed as I was this weekend.
Good to see all of you here again and I hope others will join, too!
Goody, I'm sorry you've hit another rough patch. Keep us posted. Tshol, thanks for expressing your concern about us. I so appreciate it. And, Pippin, thanks for your perspective on what is different this time with Erika. It helps to understand what other parents and teenagers are going through as we all try to wrap our arms around this difficult time in our lives.
Love,
Hope
goody2shuz
11-13-2006, 03:37 PM
Pippin ~ What you say makes complete sense of taking the stressors off so that the meds can do their thing and I must agree with Tsohl....just because today the meds seem to be in place the future is going to require some more adjustments. I think that for our girls, though, since they have exceeded that prepubescent phase that we are okay for awhile....at least until the time comes for them to have kids....I can't even look that far ahead as I am sure you are finding it just as difficult to do yourself. and I don't know even if Erin will be able to have kids....I just want to get her stabilized as I know you would like for Erika.
Sometimes I still wonder if Erin even has BP....I guess when her symptoms returned when having to come off the Risperdal was an affirmation that she does...I am still having a problem differentiating the BP from the normal teenage behaviors. She doesn't seem to go into a clear mania...for the most part we have constant irritability and depressive symptoms....I guess that what we see are mixed states and rapid cycling.....we still have major mood changes going on and since adolescents demonstrate severe irritability when experiencing mania and depression I am finding it difficult to differentiate between the two which makes it much more difficult to find the right meds I guess.
Anyway....I am rambling....I am here Pippin, no need to cut that lifeboat string yet.....just hang in there. You had a rough week with Erika in the hospital....give yourselves some time to catch your breath.
Tsohl....I answered most of your questions on a new thread I opened.
((((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Sometimes I still wonder if Erin even has BP....I guess when her symptoms returned when having to come off the Risperdal was an affirmation that she does...I am still having a problem differentiating the BP from the normal teenage behaviors. She doesn't seem to go into a clear mania...for the most part we have constant irritability and depressive symptoms....I guess that what we see are mixed states and rapid cycling.....we still have major mood changes going on and since adolescents demonstrate severe irritability when experiencing mania and depression I am finding it difficult to differentiate between the two which makes it much more difficult to find the right meds I guess.
Anyway....I am rambling....I am here Pippin, no need to cut that lifeboat string yet.....just hang in there. You had a rough week with Erika in the hospital....give yourselves some time to catch your breath.
Tsohl....I answered most of your questions on a new thread I opened.
((((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
11-13-2006, 03:52 PM
Hi Hope,
I was just thinking about you, wondering if you'd had your meeting yet. It is so difficult to take in the knowledge that your child is really ill, and it is a shock, no matter how old your child is when you find out. And you're right. The news does make you totally rethink what your plans are for the child and his future, and yours as well.
It is so very important that Zac is not using drugs or drinking. Do you think that might be what precipitated this most recent episode? The longer our son used drugs, the less he cared about his condition, or his life, for that matter. His pdoc at school continued to write prescriptions for lithium for him, but refused to treat him or try any other meds as long as he continued to smoke pot. So the last two years at college, our son smoked pot and took lithium. This worked ok as long as he was in college, but when he graduated and suddenly found himself working full-time, with the knowledge that he'd only have one week of vacation for a whole year, the stress of the new job, etc., he started using pot every day and then more drugs that his supplier kept pushing on him. That lasted about 8 months and then he started becoming almost psychotic, checked himself into a phospital and that was the beginning of his recovery and his new life. Without the drug use, I don't believe his bipolar would have become so bad...but, as I just told Goody, there is no point in looking back. Just find a way to get through today. I know you're aware that the drug use is damaging...I just thought I'd reenforce the thought from our example...so you'll be sure to watch out for this in Zac.
Glad you found some agreement at your appt. this morning. Realizing that you have a long road ahead of you will be helpful in the long run. Unfortunately there is not another way. I'll be interested to follow your thinking on other plans for Zac's education. It doesn't help to have money put away for college if he can't get through high school. And when he is more stablized, there are so many wonderful options out there for kids who hate "high school." But that is a topic for another day. Hang in there, Hope. best regards, Tsohl
I was just thinking about you, wondering if you'd had your meeting yet. It is so difficult to take in the knowledge that your child is really ill, and it is a shock, no matter how old your child is when you find out. And you're right. The news does make you totally rethink what your plans are for the child and his future, and yours as well.
It is so very important that Zac is not using drugs or drinking. Do you think that might be what precipitated this most recent episode? The longer our son used drugs, the less he cared about his condition, or his life, for that matter. His pdoc at school continued to write prescriptions for lithium for him, but refused to treat him or try any other meds as long as he continued to smoke pot. So the last two years at college, our son smoked pot and took lithium. This worked ok as long as he was in college, but when he graduated and suddenly found himself working full-time, with the knowledge that he'd only have one week of vacation for a whole year, the stress of the new job, etc., he started using pot every day and then more drugs that his supplier kept pushing on him. That lasted about 8 months and then he started becoming almost psychotic, checked himself into a phospital and that was the beginning of his recovery and his new life. Without the drug use, I don't believe his bipolar would have become so bad...but, as I just told Goody, there is no point in looking back. Just find a way to get through today. I know you're aware that the drug use is damaging...I just thought I'd reenforce the thought from our example...so you'll be sure to watch out for this in Zac.
Glad you found some agreement at your appt. this morning. Realizing that you have a long road ahead of you will be helpful in the long run. Unfortunately there is not another way. I'll be interested to follow your thinking on other plans for Zac's education. It doesn't help to have money put away for college if he can't get through high school. And when he is more stablized, there are so many wonderful options out there for kids who hate "high school." But that is a topic for another day. Hang in there, Hope. best regards, Tsohl
goody2shuz
11-13-2006, 09:52 PM
Hope, sweetie, ((((HUGS)))) for getting through the weekend. Sounds like you, hubby and Zac regrouped and realized that getting Zac through High School right now and on the road to stabilization is what is most important. When you say you are looking for a private school will there be therapy involved....will it be in a therapeutic setting with a daytreatment program??? I think that it is important for Zac to have a sense of hope and not feel as if being Bipolar is going to deny him of a great future.....however, is he capable of even seeing that for himself??? What I notice with Erin is that when she is unstable and not quite on the right meds everything is so distorted and illogical....I also thought that a private school or change may do the thing, however, one thing you may want to think about is the is that for our kids a fresh start is only a change in demographics and the issues will still be the same. The demons that our kids need to face will be the same no matter where they go and will certainly be easier when on the right meds and after learning the coping skills that they need to use to get through it all. And I would hate for you to take on a financial burden that might be used better once Zac is further stabilized. Do you think that he can handle even going to a private school???
Oh, dear Hope....I wish there was an easy answer to all of this. I think that what we had once hoped for in each of our children's lives has been altered to something much more important...for me it isn't about high school, or college or graduations, proms or things like that...it is to see Erin stabilized and feeling at peace with herself and who she is, of being happy again looking forward to the future ahead. I am sure you are with me on that!!
I hope that today you were able to relax a little bit....I know the road ahead looks scary but we are still here with outstretched hands to help you through.
Love & (((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Oh, dear Hope....I wish there was an easy answer to all of this. I think that what we had once hoped for in each of our children's lives has been altered to something much more important...for me it isn't about high school, or college or graduations, proms or things like that...it is to see Erin stabilized and feeling at peace with herself and who she is, of being happy again looking forward to the future ahead. I am sure you are with me on that!!
I hope that today you were able to relax a little bit....I know the road ahead looks scary but we are still here with outstretched hands to help you through.
Love & (((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Pippinkitty
11-13-2006, 11:18 PM
Hello All!:wave:
Tsohl, I know what you say about the meds is true and I have to keep myself in check. As you know, it is so difficult to be patient when you're exhausted. I want to throw a tantrum! It just feels like torture. And then I get upset for being self-centered because I know it must be torture for my daughter.
Erika is sitting here this moment telling me how much she hates herself. She wants to be perfect and right now, in her mind, losing an unrealistic amount of weight is what will bring perfection. She has just told me she is going to go off on her pdoc because the Lithium makes her hungry and the Geodon makes her sleep all day. She woke me up last night to tell me she was depressed.
She's crying right now. I'd better get off. Pippin
Tsohl, I know what you say about the meds is true and I have to keep myself in check. As you know, it is so difficult to be patient when you're exhausted. I want to throw a tantrum! It just feels like torture. And then I get upset for being self-centered because I know it must be torture for my daughter.
Erika is sitting here this moment telling me how much she hates herself. She wants to be perfect and right now, in her mind, losing an unrealistic amount of weight is what will bring perfection. She has just told me she is going to go off on her pdoc because the Lithium makes her hungry and the Geodon makes her sleep all day. She woke me up last night to tell me she was depressed.
She's crying right now. I'd better get off. Pippin
langlee
11-15-2006, 12:15 AM
Hi All,
We've had quite the siege here and it is only tonight I am feeling like I can breathe again. Sunday night Zac woke us up at 4 AM, crying uncontrollably, morose, desperate, truly besides himself. I have never seen him like this. We tried to comfort him, but all day on Monday, he was cycling so rapidly that he was becoming delusional. He was sobbing, thrashing around, hitting his head on the wall, and totally devoid of hope or of his life getting better.
Needless to say, my husband and I were terrified. Zac wouldn't go to the IOP and we could hear him crying all through the house all day. I put in emergency calls to the pdoc because it seemed like his meds had gone haywire. Finally, today, I dragged him kicking and screaming to the IOP, where he finally was able to break the cycle. I took him for an emergency appointment to the pdoc and he now has a much more comprehensive med regimen. Seems his bipolar has taken another ugly turn.
He was in a much better place tonight, talking about the future, trying to think things through again. This has been such a nightmare because there are times I look at him and truly find him unrecognizable. He was never aggressive, abusive, or even unhappy. To see my formerly joyful child in total despair is more heartbreaking than anything else I have ever lived through.
But, tonight, he's back and there's hope. I thank God everyday for all of you because I know you are the wind beneath my wings.
Tomorrow I promise to focus on all of you. I have been absorbed in our version of hell for 10 days and I'm trying to remember what life looks like.
I'll also update you on our thinking about private schools, but Zac has been to several programs on college campuses in the summer and has always flourished so I'm thinking that when he's feeling better, that may be a better option for him than our high school. He and I had a long talk about what he would be looking for and I'll update you on his thinking about that, too.
Have a good night and thanks for being there. I love you all.
Hope
We've had quite the siege here and it is only tonight I am feeling like I can breathe again. Sunday night Zac woke us up at 4 AM, crying uncontrollably, morose, desperate, truly besides himself. I have never seen him like this. We tried to comfort him, but all day on Monday, he was cycling so rapidly that he was becoming delusional. He was sobbing, thrashing around, hitting his head on the wall, and totally devoid of hope or of his life getting better.
Needless to say, my husband and I were terrified. Zac wouldn't go to the IOP and we could hear him crying all through the house all day. I put in emergency calls to the pdoc because it seemed like his meds had gone haywire. Finally, today, I dragged him kicking and screaming to the IOP, where he finally was able to break the cycle. I took him for an emergency appointment to the pdoc and he now has a much more comprehensive med regimen. Seems his bipolar has taken another ugly turn.
He was in a much better place tonight, talking about the future, trying to think things through again. This has been such a nightmare because there are times I look at him and truly find him unrecognizable. He was never aggressive, abusive, or even unhappy. To see my formerly joyful child in total despair is more heartbreaking than anything else I have ever lived through.
But, tonight, he's back and there's hope. I thank God everyday for all of you because I know you are the wind beneath my wings.
Tomorrow I promise to focus on all of you. I have been absorbed in our version of hell for 10 days and I'm trying to remember what life looks like.
I'll also update you on our thinking about private schools, but Zac has been to several programs on college campuses in the summer and has always flourished so I'm thinking that when he's feeling better, that may be a better option for him than our high school. He and I had a long talk about what he would be looking for and I'll update you on his thinking about that, too.
Have a good night and thanks for being there. I love you all.
Hope
tsohl
11-15-2006, 12:42 AM
Hello,
There was a group of 4 or 5 ladies on the back board last winter when I read it more often who were like a little coffee klatch. :dizzy: They'd check in every morning, report how the weather was in their respective parts of the country, whether they'd been able to get out to do their walking, etc...and then they'd check back at the end of the day to see how everyone had done that day! I'm beginning to feel that way about you ladies with your bipolar teens. I find myself thinking during the day about how Zac and Erin and Erika are doing, if you all are having a reasonably calm day (oh, you don't remember what that is, you say?), sometimes reading up on teens with bipolar to see if anything jogs some memories of things I lived through that might be useful, etc. I worry when night comes and none of you have posted.
Hope, I am happy to hear that things were a bit better with Zac and that you got in to see the pdoc. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on private schools. Sometimes a program other than a public high school is the best option, at least for awhile. I forget what year of school Zac is--I think he was just starting high school, but is that 9th or 10th grade where you are?
You all need to pace yourselves, take a couple deep breaths and realize that you'll find a way to get through tomorrow and the day after....that it will get easier and your children will get better. Be happy that you are there to help them while you can still make decisions for them. That is a blessing. Trust me on that. best, Tsohl
There was a group of 4 or 5 ladies on the back board last winter when I read it more often who were like a little coffee klatch. :dizzy: They'd check in every morning, report how the weather was in their respective parts of the country, whether they'd been able to get out to do their walking, etc...and then they'd check back at the end of the day to see how everyone had done that day! I'm beginning to feel that way about you ladies with your bipolar teens. I find myself thinking during the day about how Zac and Erin and Erika are doing, if you all are having a reasonably calm day (oh, you don't remember what that is, you say?), sometimes reading up on teens with bipolar to see if anything jogs some memories of things I lived through that might be useful, etc. I worry when night comes and none of you have posted.
Hope, I am happy to hear that things were a bit better with Zac and that you got in to see the pdoc. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on private schools. Sometimes a program other than a public high school is the best option, at least for awhile. I forget what year of school Zac is--I think he was just starting high school, but is that 9th or 10th grade where you are?
You all need to pace yourselves, take a couple deep breaths and realize that you'll find a way to get through tomorrow and the day after....that it will get easier and your children will get better. Be happy that you are there to help them while you can still make decisions for them. That is a blessing. Trust me on that. best, Tsohl
langlee
11-15-2006, 06:59 PM
I feel the same way about all of you! I think about Erin and Erika and hope they are well and look forward to hering from Tsohl and hoping she will post and give perspective. I don't ever want to alienate anyone else, and I would be happy if others joined in, but I have developed a special bond with all of you and feel very connected. Thank you for that.
Goody, I'm trying to get a perspective with where you are with Erin. I've tried to read some of the posts on this thread and others and it sounds like you are dealing with irritability and defiance. Have the meds started kicking in yet? What would you say is Erin's biggest complaint right now? Her biggest source of unhappiness?
Pippin, how is Erika today? I know last night she was weepy and depressed, but that's probably to be expected after the inital thrill of being home wears off. How is she doing with being out of school? Does she like it or is she missing her friends?
Tsohl, I hear your concern about Zac and drugs and I share it, although I don't think that's the problem right now. I think we just hit another version of his biploar and this one was scary. This really felt like we were watching our child's descent into madness. He was so outside of himself and so unreachable. He is more himself again, but his new demon is severe panic attacks. He has been struggling with them for awhile, but they seem much more frequent now and he is clinging to his Seroquel as if it's a lifesaver. He is on so many meds now that I wonder if we'll ever be able to find the real Zac under the haze of prescription drugs, but we need them now to help keep his equillibrium.
When he's calm we talk about this experience and how he can make it meaningful. He's a wonderful writer and I suggested he capture his thoughts and feelings so someday he can write a book. He was already ahead of me on that. I told him the goal is to find sustainable joy once again and that, although now his life is filled with struggles and challenges, he will find his essence again. I am sure of it.
I have to remind myself to look for moments of joy, too. This has been so exhausting and I feel like we have been living in high anxiety for so long that I truly can't remember what it feels like to wake up and look forward to the day. I have to try to do what I can to keep my wits about me because so much of this falls on me and I have to be strong for Zac. He has been the joy of my life since the day he was born and I feel the responsibility of helping him get his life back so intently.
I don't know which way to turn first, but now that the crisis is at least temporarily over, I am back to thinking about private schools. I have alot of research to do, but in my heart of hearts, I know he will be happier in a school that has more emphasis on the joy of learning than in gradepoint averages. Zac has mulitple interests and he is passionate about so many things, but I think his current high school has been toxic for him. He has been saying that since the beginning, but I now believe it to be true. I want him to enjoy learning once again, to be excited about the world around him, to cherish the discovery of new things. He has not had that for a long, long time and I hope to find it for him again. I am not looking for a therapeutic school, although I want one that nourishes the soul and has an understanding of bipolar. I've been given the names of several educational consultants and I'll be starting with them. I'll keep you posted on my progress.
For now, I want to help my child find his inner core again. One of my friends described Zac as a child who was drawn to the light and I love that vision. That's our goal - drawn to the light and sustainable joy.
So, my friends, I look forward to hearing from all of you and continuing to gain strength and hope from each other.
Love always,
Hope
Goody, I'm trying to get a perspective with where you are with Erin. I've tried to read some of the posts on this thread and others and it sounds like you are dealing with irritability and defiance. Have the meds started kicking in yet? What would you say is Erin's biggest complaint right now? Her biggest source of unhappiness?
Pippin, how is Erika today? I know last night she was weepy and depressed, but that's probably to be expected after the inital thrill of being home wears off. How is she doing with being out of school? Does she like it or is she missing her friends?
Tsohl, I hear your concern about Zac and drugs and I share it, although I don't think that's the problem right now. I think we just hit another version of his biploar and this one was scary. This really felt like we were watching our child's descent into madness. He was so outside of himself and so unreachable. He is more himself again, but his new demon is severe panic attacks. He has been struggling with them for awhile, but they seem much more frequent now and he is clinging to his Seroquel as if it's a lifesaver. He is on so many meds now that I wonder if we'll ever be able to find the real Zac under the haze of prescription drugs, but we need them now to help keep his equillibrium.
When he's calm we talk about this experience and how he can make it meaningful. He's a wonderful writer and I suggested he capture his thoughts and feelings so someday he can write a book. He was already ahead of me on that. I told him the goal is to find sustainable joy once again and that, although now his life is filled with struggles and challenges, he will find his essence again. I am sure of it.
I have to remind myself to look for moments of joy, too. This has been so exhausting and I feel like we have been living in high anxiety for so long that I truly can't remember what it feels like to wake up and look forward to the day. I have to try to do what I can to keep my wits about me because so much of this falls on me and I have to be strong for Zac. He has been the joy of my life since the day he was born and I feel the responsibility of helping him get his life back so intently.
I don't know which way to turn first, but now that the crisis is at least temporarily over, I am back to thinking about private schools. I have alot of research to do, but in my heart of hearts, I know he will be happier in a school that has more emphasis on the joy of learning than in gradepoint averages. Zac has mulitple interests and he is passionate about so many things, but I think his current high school has been toxic for him. He has been saying that since the beginning, but I now believe it to be true. I want him to enjoy learning once again, to be excited about the world around him, to cherish the discovery of new things. He has not had that for a long, long time and I hope to find it for him again. I am not looking for a therapeutic school, although I want one that nourishes the soul and has an understanding of bipolar. I've been given the names of several educational consultants and I'll be starting with them. I'll keep you posted on my progress.
For now, I want to help my child find his inner core again. One of my friends described Zac as a child who was drawn to the light and I love that vision. That's our goal - drawn to the light and sustainable joy.
So, my friends, I look forward to hearing from all of you and continuing to gain strength and hope from each other.
Love always,
Hope
goody2shuz
11-15-2006, 09:40 PM
Well I guess we all have taken that deep breath...in and out, in and out.....Tsohl I hear you about how during the day you are wondering how the kids we all have grown to care about are doing....it's not easy to find other mother's out there who are going through all that we are to help find some type of stability for their child almost fighting an hourglass of time in order to do so. And it is unbelievably exhausting. I feel as if I have 10 kids with all that is involved with Erin and I am sure that each of you know exactly what that feels like.
Okay....so Pippin has left off and seems to have relayed that Erika has taken a few steps back....I am sure that is to be expected now that the reality of this all has set in. I sure hope that things are okay and that Erika is more settled in. I am sure that schoolwork is low on the list of priorites for now.
Hope ~ I can hear the calmness returning...I am guessing that things are at a better place for Zac and your family. You haven't really mentioned how hubby is dealing with all of this....I know that you bared your soul to us regarding your concerns about your hubby and I didn't want you to feel that we have forgotten about that. If you need to further talk about it we are here.
I must ask, Hope, and share Tsohl's concern regarding the drugs....the night that Zac took the walk and was beaten up by some boys in the park and then his decline.....I have read that use of drugs could elicit a psychotic episode a source I searched through states " Psychotic symptoms can occur as a result of drug use....". Did they do a drug test when things got out of hand that night??? I know that the days that followed Erin's use of pot she was much more irritable and unstable. I was thinking that perhaps Zac was coming down from something and of course when drugs/alcohol are mixed with the psychotropic drugs this can be worstened.
I think that it is good to refocus Zac on his interests and take the stress off of him as much as possible. I just watched Oprah last night and a psychiatrist said that the best support we can give to somebody who is experiencing depression is to 1) alleviate the hopelessness by pointing out the things they have to look forward to, 2) Do not allow them to isolate themselves from family friends....keep them involved in things, and 3) do not allow them to alienate others from them (this one I couldn't understand since it may be difficult to control this from happening).
As far as updating you on Erin.....we have been on Seroquel for 6 days (50mgs) and increased the Lamictal to 75mgs for a week and will go up to 100mgs starting tomorrow. We called the pdoc today to tell her that we have had no real effect from the Seroquel and surprisingly she instructed us to increase the dosage to 150mgs and give her a call on Monday to report how we are doing. We are hoping that we will have some good news to report.;) Today was a good day....Erin has been more talkative and smiling more so perhaps the meds are starting to work....but if I have learned one thing it is not to get my hopes up too quickly with all of this. It looks like Zac and Erin are on some of the same meds and hopefully they will kick in soon.
I hear you about helping Zac find his inner core again....I think that this all has knocked the breath out of them and until the meds do their thing I think that it will be difficult for them to do that work within themselves needed to move forward with all of this.
Erin's play rehearsals are not as demanding as we originally thought....she only has to go to the ones when they ask for the full cast and the next one is on the 29th....we are relieved about that. We are looking into starting piano lessons which should balance things out. Erin's newest thing is looking into graduating a year earlier so that she can go to college sooner.....I am not getting too worked up about it because tomorrow she will be into something else but she did go meet with the guidance counselor and social worker about being emancipated....she wants out of out home and this was all part of what we went through last year when she was unstable so I know that when the meds kick in she won't be thinking like that. She thinks that she may be failing math but otherwise is doing well....her report card comes home in a few days. Meanwhile, Kait comes home tomorrow for a ten day break for Thanksgiving and for some reason I am dreading it....it seems that her own behavior plays on any progress we are making with Erin. One good thing is that we will be getting away as a family for Thanksgiving. We are heading up to a resort and hour away from Kait's college for four days and they have a five star restaurant on the premises in which they serve a Thanksgivng dinner family style with your own turkey and all and even wrap up the leftovers!!:D I think that our family really needs this after the year that we have had!! And I am looking very much forward to it!!
Oh, Tsohl...you once mentioned a college that is in the Midwest that is as renound as Julliard....what was the name of it again??? Being that Erin is now looking into colleges and spent most of this evening doing so, I figured I would have her look into it.
I really find that I get such support here with all of this.....it is my lifeline that I haven't found anywhere else. I don't know how I would be able to face all that this entails without other mom's who know what it's like to try to find stability for their child while they are still able to. Like Tsohl already said....we ARE blessed to have this time to do so before our kids turn 18.
((((HUGS)))) and knowing we are one more step closer to stability ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Okay....so Pippin has left off and seems to have relayed that Erika has taken a few steps back....I am sure that is to be expected now that the reality of this all has set in. I sure hope that things are okay and that Erika is more settled in. I am sure that schoolwork is low on the list of priorites for now.
Hope ~ I can hear the calmness returning...I am guessing that things are at a better place for Zac and your family. You haven't really mentioned how hubby is dealing with all of this....I know that you bared your soul to us regarding your concerns about your hubby and I didn't want you to feel that we have forgotten about that. If you need to further talk about it we are here.
I must ask, Hope, and share Tsohl's concern regarding the drugs....the night that Zac took the walk and was beaten up by some boys in the park and then his decline.....I have read that use of drugs could elicit a psychotic episode a source I searched through states " Psychotic symptoms can occur as a result of drug use....". Did they do a drug test when things got out of hand that night??? I know that the days that followed Erin's use of pot she was much more irritable and unstable. I was thinking that perhaps Zac was coming down from something and of course when drugs/alcohol are mixed with the psychotropic drugs this can be worstened.
I think that it is good to refocus Zac on his interests and take the stress off of him as much as possible. I just watched Oprah last night and a psychiatrist said that the best support we can give to somebody who is experiencing depression is to 1) alleviate the hopelessness by pointing out the things they have to look forward to, 2) Do not allow them to isolate themselves from family friends....keep them involved in things, and 3) do not allow them to alienate others from them (this one I couldn't understand since it may be difficult to control this from happening).
As far as updating you on Erin.....we have been on Seroquel for 6 days (50mgs) and increased the Lamictal to 75mgs for a week and will go up to 100mgs starting tomorrow. We called the pdoc today to tell her that we have had no real effect from the Seroquel and surprisingly she instructed us to increase the dosage to 150mgs and give her a call on Monday to report how we are doing. We are hoping that we will have some good news to report.;) Today was a good day....Erin has been more talkative and smiling more so perhaps the meds are starting to work....but if I have learned one thing it is not to get my hopes up too quickly with all of this. It looks like Zac and Erin are on some of the same meds and hopefully they will kick in soon.
I hear you about helping Zac find his inner core again....I think that this all has knocked the breath out of them and until the meds do their thing I think that it will be difficult for them to do that work within themselves needed to move forward with all of this.
Erin's play rehearsals are not as demanding as we originally thought....she only has to go to the ones when they ask for the full cast and the next one is on the 29th....we are relieved about that. We are looking into starting piano lessons which should balance things out. Erin's newest thing is looking into graduating a year earlier so that she can go to college sooner.....I am not getting too worked up about it because tomorrow she will be into something else but she did go meet with the guidance counselor and social worker about being emancipated....she wants out of out home and this was all part of what we went through last year when she was unstable so I know that when the meds kick in she won't be thinking like that. She thinks that she may be failing math but otherwise is doing well....her report card comes home in a few days. Meanwhile, Kait comes home tomorrow for a ten day break for Thanksgiving and for some reason I am dreading it....it seems that her own behavior plays on any progress we are making with Erin. One good thing is that we will be getting away as a family for Thanksgiving. We are heading up to a resort and hour away from Kait's college for four days and they have a five star restaurant on the premises in which they serve a Thanksgivng dinner family style with your own turkey and all and even wrap up the leftovers!!:D I think that our family really needs this after the year that we have had!! And I am looking very much forward to it!!
Oh, Tsohl...you once mentioned a college that is in the Midwest that is as renound as Julliard....what was the name of it again??? Being that Erin is now looking into colleges and spent most of this evening doing so, I figured I would have her look into it.
I really find that I get such support here with all of this.....it is my lifeline that I haven't found anywhere else. I don't know how I would be able to face all that this entails without other mom's who know what it's like to try to find stability for their child while they are still able to. Like Tsohl already said....we ARE blessed to have this time to do so before our kids turn 18.
((((HUGS)))) and knowing we are one more step closer to stability ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
11-15-2006, 10:23 PM
Hi all,
Goody ~ it wasn't a college. I mentioned Interlochen Arts Academy to you and said that it was the only high school in the whole country where Julliard came to recruit. It is a 4 year prep school and they also have a 5th year program for kids who want a bit more experience in music, drama, dance or art before going on professionally or to a college or university. They have a wonderful summer program as well. Check out their website: www.interlochen.org.
One thing you might look into is the other college Bard College runs for younger students. www.simons-rock.edu. I don't know too much about it other than it takes kids after 10th grade. One of my daughter's friends from Interlochen went there. Anyway, you can look at their website before you mention it to Erin to see what you think of it! It is in western MA. I have no idea if it is particularly arts oriented.
Wow, Kait has a long vacation. Then she goes back for a couple weeks and it is time for Christmas vacation/Winter break. I share your concerns about having her home and her influence on the chemistry of the household. The plans for Thanksgiving sound terrific and, hopefully, that will take the focus off of the girls.
Hope everybody had a good day and that the new meds are starting to kick in. I was so excited when my son first got his prescriptions written out for 3 months. That was the first sign I had that the pdoc thought he was stablizing!! (That actually just happened this past spring.)
Oh, these are random thoughts tonight....sorry. One thing to be aware of is the change in season...this can also be contributing to your children's problems. I think we all live in parts of the country where the weather really changes as winter approaches...the days are shorter, well, the hours of daylight, anyway...the days are grayer and in general more BLAH. There is less sun, etc. I don't think it is exactly S.A.D. but very similar to it. There's not much to be done about it, but just be aware that it may be one of the things contributing to the general malaise. Take care, all. Tsohl.
Goody ~ it wasn't a college. I mentioned Interlochen Arts Academy to you and said that it was the only high school in the whole country where Julliard came to recruit. It is a 4 year prep school and they also have a 5th year program for kids who want a bit more experience in music, drama, dance or art before going on professionally or to a college or university. They have a wonderful summer program as well. Check out their website: www.interlochen.org.
One thing you might look into is the other college Bard College runs for younger students. www.simons-rock.edu. I don't know too much about it other than it takes kids after 10th grade. One of my daughter's friends from Interlochen went there. Anyway, you can look at their website before you mention it to Erin to see what you think of it! It is in western MA. I have no idea if it is particularly arts oriented.
Wow, Kait has a long vacation. Then she goes back for a couple weeks and it is time for Christmas vacation/Winter break. I share your concerns about having her home and her influence on the chemistry of the household. The plans for Thanksgiving sound terrific and, hopefully, that will take the focus off of the girls.
Hope everybody had a good day and that the new meds are starting to kick in. I was so excited when my son first got his prescriptions written out for 3 months. That was the first sign I had that the pdoc thought he was stablizing!! (That actually just happened this past spring.)
Oh, these are random thoughts tonight....sorry. One thing to be aware of is the change in season...this can also be contributing to your children's problems. I think we all live in parts of the country where the weather really changes as winter approaches...the days are shorter, well, the hours of daylight, anyway...the days are grayer and in general more BLAH. There is less sun, etc. I don't think it is exactly S.A.D. but very similar to it. There's not much to be done about it, but just be aware that it may be one of the things contributing to the general malaise. Take care, all. Tsohl.
goody2shuz
11-16-2006, 09:56 PM
Okay, Tsohl, I know how you may worry so here's a quick update. Erin has now been increased to 150mgs of Seroquel (from 50mgs) and also has increased from 75mgs of Lamictal to 100mgs. I am hoping with the increase in both we will be seeing some improvement especially since we are now approaching a more therapeutic range with the Lamictal!!;)
She is still very irritable....nearly bit my head off this morning when I greeted her. She spent most of the day in her room....I think that she is trying to avoid any confrontations. She also complained of a stomachache/heartburn.....I believe it may be from the Seroquel and if it persists we are going to split the dose up to 75mg in am and 75mg in pm which hopefully will help.
Kait is done with her finals:blob_fire First trimester is done and she is on her way home. I am hoping that we all can survive this Thanksgiving break together. I really need it to go smoothly.
Thanks for the information on the music programs. I really appreciate it.
Hoping that everything is good in your corner of the world....thanks for the hope you give us of getting that 3 month script for meds, I am really looking forward to that day!!
Hoping all is well with our other ladies and their teens. I am sure that they will check in again soon.
(((((HUGS))))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
She is still very irritable....nearly bit my head off this morning when I greeted her. She spent most of the day in her room....I think that she is trying to avoid any confrontations. She also complained of a stomachache/heartburn.....I believe it may be from the Seroquel and if it persists we are going to split the dose up to 75mg in am and 75mg in pm which hopefully will help.
Kait is done with her finals:blob_fire First trimester is done and she is on her way home. I am hoping that we all can survive this Thanksgiving break together. I really need it to go smoothly.
Thanks for the information on the music programs. I really appreciate it.
Hoping that everything is good in your corner of the world....thanks for the hope you give us of getting that 3 month script for meds, I am really looking forward to that day!!
Hoping all is well with our other ladies and their teens. I am sure that they will check in again soon.
(((((HUGS))))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
11-16-2006, 10:48 PM
Thanks, Goody, for the update.
I had not started worrying yet!
FYI: I graduated from high school a year early and went off to college when I was 16....I turned 17 in Oct. of my frosh year. I've never regretted it. I really hated high school!! So if you ever want to hear about that experience, I can chime in with my thoughts!
Looking forward to an update on Erika and Zac. Seems like all your kids are on new or more meds, and I'm hoping that is having a positive effect.
Have a good evening....Tsohl
I had not started worrying yet!
FYI: I graduated from high school a year early and went off to college when I was 16....I turned 17 in Oct. of my frosh year. I've never regretted it. I really hated high school!! So if you ever want to hear about that experience, I can chime in with my thoughts!
Looking forward to an update on Erika and Zac. Seems like all your kids are on new or more meds, and I'm hoping that is having a positive effect.
Have a good evening....Tsohl
langlee
11-16-2006, 10:59 PM
Hi All-
Goody, your Thanksgiving plans sound wonderful! I hope you and your family can enjoy a team of peace and togetherness.
You and Tsohl might be right about the drug use. The night Zac came home from the park we supsected that he had taken something. He was not tested for drugs the next day and they certainly could have contributed to his psychotic state.
Today, though, is a good day. For the first time in a long time I saw Zac's old smile - the kind of smile that says all is right with the world. He was tired today, but feeling better, and had a great session with a new home instructor. His guidance counselor arranged for him to have home instruction on his art history elective and it was adose of wonderful medicine. He loved it!
Goody, is Erin serious about finishing high school early? How do you feel about that?
Zac is also on 100 mg of Lamictal and the pdoc finally added an anti-depressant. He also can take Seroquel as needed for anxiety, (as long as he follows recommended doses), is winding down the Tripleptal, and has medications for sleep. It's alot of meds now, but if it helps him through the rough spots, I'm good with it.
I think we came down off of the Trileptal too quicky and that may have added to Zac's trauma. Who knows? I feel like I'm becoming a doctor myself, but I know my son, and this time was different.
I'm just happy to have a few days of "normal". We are starting to talk again about transitioning him slowly back to the high school. Even if we are ultimately going to change schools, it would be a positive for him to be able to return to his high school and succeed. He is having a positive experience with most of the home instructors and that is giving him his confidence back.
Tomorrow is another day. I'm hoping for a good one for all of us!
Love,
Hope
Goody, your Thanksgiving plans sound wonderful! I hope you and your family can enjoy a team of peace and togetherness.
You and Tsohl might be right about the drug use. The night Zac came home from the park we supsected that he had taken something. He was not tested for drugs the next day and they certainly could have contributed to his psychotic state.
Today, though, is a good day. For the first time in a long time I saw Zac's old smile - the kind of smile that says all is right with the world. He was tired today, but feeling better, and had a great session with a new home instructor. His guidance counselor arranged for him to have home instruction on his art history elective and it was adose of wonderful medicine. He loved it!
Goody, is Erin serious about finishing high school early? How do you feel about that?
Zac is also on 100 mg of Lamictal and the pdoc finally added an anti-depressant. He also can take Seroquel as needed for anxiety, (as long as he follows recommended doses), is winding down the Tripleptal, and has medications for sleep. It's alot of meds now, but if it helps him through the rough spots, I'm good with it.
I think we came down off of the Trileptal too quicky and that may have added to Zac's trauma. Who knows? I feel like I'm becoming a doctor myself, but I know my son, and this time was different.
I'm just happy to have a few days of "normal". We are starting to talk again about transitioning him slowly back to the high school. Even if we are ultimately going to change schools, it would be a positive for him to be able to return to his high school and succeed. He is having a positive experience with most of the home instructors and that is giving him his confidence back.
Tomorrow is another day. I'm hoping for a good one for all of us!
Love,
Hope
tsohl
11-16-2006, 11:21 PM
Hope,
Good news about Zac. My son takes lithium, tegretol and lamictal. He can take seroquel if needed, but he hasn't had any in several months. It does seem like a lot, but it is doing the trick for him, and the pdoc said that if the progress continues as it has, by next July he hopes to have him down to one med. (I don't know which one....)
It's interesting how differently the various states handle the educational issues for someone with bipolar. Sounds like you are in a good one.
Hope you can string several good days in a row together!! Then you can catch your breath. best, Tsohl
Good news about Zac. My son takes lithium, tegretol and lamictal. He can take seroquel if needed, but he hasn't had any in several months. It does seem like a lot, but it is doing the trick for him, and the pdoc said that if the progress continues as it has, by next July he hopes to have him down to one med. (I don't know which one....)
It's interesting how differently the various states handle the educational issues for someone with bipolar. Sounds like you are in a good one.
Hope you can string several good days in a row together!! Then you can catch your breath. best, Tsohl
langlee
11-17-2006, 04:57 PM
Dear Tshol,
Thanks for the kind words. To tell the truth, I don't know what the different states do for bipolar kids, but I would say that I have been less than impressed with our school system's (consistently rated as one of the Top 10 in our state) response to Zac's challenges. Having said that, there have been individuals who have been wonderful.
We had a scare this morning. One of the instructors noticed that several capsules fell out of Zac's book bag and she turned them over to the school nurse. The nurse called us becasue she was concerned he might be using again. Turns out they were Dietary Supplments he bought in Whole Foods months ago. Whew!
I hope you all have a wonderful weekend!
Hope
Thanks for the kind words. To tell the truth, I don't know what the different states do for bipolar kids, but I would say that I have been less than impressed with our school system's (consistently rated as one of the Top 10 in our state) response to Zac's challenges. Having said that, there have been individuals who have been wonderful.
We had a scare this morning. One of the instructors noticed that several capsules fell out of Zac's book bag and she turned them over to the school nurse. The nurse called us becasue she was concerned he might be using again. Turns out they were Dietary Supplments he bought in Whole Foods months ago. Whew!
I hope you all have a wonderful weekend!
Hope
Pippinkitty
11-18-2006, 12:10 AM
Hello Girls!
This week has rapidly gone downhill. Erika has been very clingy, talkative, and having a major burst of creativity. The evenings are filled with despair, confusion, frustration, self-harming (slapping her face, throwing herself against the wall, pulling out her hair, and obsessing), and screaming.
She hugs me in the morning and apologizes. She has taken Concerta for two days and while I feel she has worsened the progression started before that. I'm going to say what doesn't really need to be said but this is so exhausting. I'm thinking about switching to the pdoc that seems to specialize in bipolar.
Erika is supposed to spend Thanksgiving with her father (who does not acknowledge his own bipolar or his brother's). I'm just not sure what he might do if she pushes him at the wrong moment. Of course I won't send her if she doesn't improve. I guess my problem is every now and then I let myself slip back into the role I was in in my marriage to him-being controlled by a bipolar and all the ugliness that came with it.
Erika's Home Instruction has gone very well, considering. Her teacher is experienced with thinking outside the box.
Anyway, if anybody has any input I'm all ears. I know-the concerta. I'm not going to give it to her over the weekend to see if that helps anything. Night-Night. Pippin:wave:
This week has rapidly gone downhill. Erika has been very clingy, talkative, and having a major burst of creativity. The evenings are filled with despair, confusion, frustration, self-harming (slapping her face, throwing herself against the wall, pulling out her hair, and obsessing), and screaming.
She hugs me in the morning and apologizes. She has taken Concerta for two days and while I feel she has worsened the progression started before that. I'm going to say what doesn't really need to be said but this is so exhausting. I'm thinking about switching to the pdoc that seems to specialize in bipolar.
Erika is supposed to spend Thanksgiving with her father (who does not acknowledge his own bipolar or his brother's). I'm just not sure what he might do if she pushes him at the wrong moment. Of course I won't send her if she doesn't improve. I guess my problem is every now and then I let myself slip back into the role I was in in my marriage to him-being controlled by a bipolar and all the ugliness that came with it.
Erika's Home Instruction has gone very well, considering. Her teacher is experienced with thinking outside the box.
Anyway, if anybody has any input I'm all ears. I know-the concerta. I'm not going to give it to her over the weekend to see if that helps anything. Night-Night. Pippin:wave:
Pippinkitty
11-18-2006, 02:43 PM
Hello again:wave:
Okay, I had a meltdown this morning. Erika was fighting me, as always, on taking her meds. And as ususual, it's like an interrogation from her, in that she fires question after question at me. No answer works accept to tell her she has to take them. She will never never get past the side effects if she is not taking them as directed. Anyway, all this was going on and my husband called me into our office to show me a printout of Guardian (records Erika's keystrokes) and how Erika had been up in the middle of night on the computer and during the day when I had to slip out to visit my schools. So I had them both coming at me-one in anger, the other with tattling at the wrong time. As I was getting up to leave the office hubby asked if there was anything he could do. I felt so overwhelmed I could barely get the words out "I have to go upstairs and listen to my deep relaxation CD". I had a really hard time reigning the tears and heavy breathing in enough to focus but finally did and fell asleep for 2 1/2 hours.
After I was up about 20 or 30 minutes (which is all Erika is going to give me) I pulled out a list I found on early warning signs of biploar relapse or oncoming episode. I gave it to Erika and firmly said she needed to check off any of the things she was feeling on the list. She did and I'm guessing what she has been doing is either rapid cycling or a mixed episode? I'll list the things she checked:
Having more trouble sleeping
Having more trouble concentrating
enjoying things less
Having more religious ideas
preoccupied with one or two ideas (absolutely!)
feeling like I was forgetting things more
feeling worthless
feeling that someone else is controlling me(she said because we make her take meds)
feeling badly for no apparent reason
feeling too excited or overactive
having trouble relating to family
Just more info. for anyone's elses experience or opinion on this. Thanks.
I'm feeling a little better just telling the crew this and knowing I will see something in a couple of days. It's something to look forward to. I hope you all are having a period of calm waters. You all deserve it! Take care girls! Pippin;)
Okay, I had a meltdown this morning. Erika was fighting me, as always, on taking her meds. And as ususual, it's like an interrogation from her, in that she fires question after question at me. No answer works accept to tell her she has to take them. She will never never get past the side effects if she is not taking them as directed. Anyway, all this was going on and my husband called me into our office to show me a printout of Guardian (records Erika's keystrokes) and how Erika had been up in the middle of night on the computer and during the day when I had to slip out to visit my schools. So I had them both coming at me-one in anger, the other with tattling at the wrong time. As I was getting up to leave the office hubby asked if there was anything he could do. I felt so overwhelmed I could barely get the words out "I have to go upstairs and listen to my deep relaxation CD". I had a really hard time reigning the tears and heavy breathing in enough to focus but finally did and fell asleep for 2 1/2 hours.
After I was up about 20 or 30 minutes (which is all Erika is going to give me) I pulled out a list I found on early warning signs of biploar relapse or oncoming episode. I gave it to Erika and firmly said she needed to check off any of the things she was feeling on the list. She did and I'm guessing what she has been doing is either rapid cycling or a mixed episode? I'll list the things she checked:
Having more trouble sleeping
Having more trouble concentrating
enjoying things less
Having more religious ideas
preoccupied with one or two ideas (absolutely!)
feeling like I was forgetting things more
feeling worthless
feeling that someone else is controlling me(she said because we make her take meds)
feeling badly for no apparent reason
feeling too excited or overactive
having trouble relating to family
Just more info. for anyone's elses experience or opinion on this. Thanks.
I'm feeling a little better just telling the crew this and knowing I will see something in a couple of days. It's something to look forward to. I hope you all are having a period of calm waters. You all deserve it! Take care girls! Pippin;)
tsohl
11-18-2006, 03:37 PM
Hi Pippin,
I'm here, but am not much help today. Ever since I started reading on this board I've wondered why people refuse to take their meds. It seems like it must be a very complicated issue. We've been very lucky in that regard. Our son has pretty much managed his bipolar on his own and has always been compliant with his meds. He took it upon himself to read up on all the various classifications of meds, what they are supposed to do, etc., and is now very knowledgeable. He understands why he needs them and he doesn't ever want to end up in the psych hospital again. One time was sufficient for him. Which is not to say that every drug he was prescribed, he did ok on. But he would call his pdoc and they'd discuss it and then he was compliant with the doc's recommendations. But, as I've said before, he went through a number of years where he was self-medicating, and then on lithium and self-medicating, then several pdocs. before he finally got to the right pdoc who finally figured out the magic combo that works for him. And waiting month to month to see if a new drug was going to help seemed like an eternity....
13 is a pretty awful age to begin with, without having all the bipolar issues on top of it. You just have to convince Erika that it will all be worth all the trial and error when they finally come up with the right mix that works for her, and allows her to live life in a more tranquil state...that it takes time, but that it will happen. It's so hard because we're all so conditioned to getting things quickly.
I just read an interesting article on "summer mania" and "fall depression" in which it said something like 80% of hospital admissions for depression occur in the fall. I know my son has a hard time when the cold weather begins, the daylight gets shorter and the sun goes away for awhile. I've been thinking about encouraging him to try that light therapy for awhile to see if it would make any difference. I bet Erika is bothered by the change in season also, even if she doesn't recognize it as such.
I wish I had something wise to say to you, or some advice to offer. All I can do is let you know I'm thinking about you and your family and that I'm sending positive, supportive thoughts your way. Taking deep breaths doesn't do much good in this situation, does it? best regards, Tsohl
I'm here, but am not much help today. Ever since I started reading on this board I've wondered why people refuse to take their meds. It seems like it must be a very complicated issue. We've been very lucky in that regard. Our son has pretty much managed his bipolar on his own and has always been compliant with his meds. He took it upon himself to read up on all the various classifications of meds, what they are supposed to do, etc., and is now very knowledgeable. He understands why he needs them and he doesn't ever want to end up in the psych hospital again. One time was sufficient for him. Which is not to say that every drug he was prescribed, he did ok on. But he would call his pdoc and they'd discuss it and then he was compliant with the doc's recommendations. But, as I've said before, he went through a number of years where he was self-medicating, and then on lithium and self-medicating, then several pdocs. before he finally got to the right pdoc who finally figured out the magic combo that works for him. And waiting month to month to see if a new drug was going to help seemed like an eternity....
13 is a pretty awful age to begin with, without having all the bipolar issues on top of it. You just have to convince Erika that it will all be worth all the trial and error when they finally come up with the right mix that works for her, and allows her to live life in a more tranquil state...that it takes time, but that it will happen. It's so hard because we're all so conditioned to getting things quickly.
I just read an interesting article on "summer mania" and "fall depression" in which it said something like 80% of hospital admissions for depression occur in the fall. I know my son has a hard time when the cold weather begins, the daylight gets shorter and the sun goes away for awhile. I've been thinking about encouraging him to try that light therapy for awhile to see if it would make any difference. I bet Erika is bothered by the change in season also, even if she doesn't recognize it as such.
I wish I had something wise to say to you, or some advice to offer. All I can do is let you know I'm thinking about you and your family and that I'm sending positive, supportive thoughts your way. Taking deep breaths doesn't do much good in this situation, does it? best regards, Tsohl
goody2shuz
11-19-2006, 12:07 AM
((((((HUGS))))))) Pippin:angel: I am so sorry that things are not going as well as when you got Erika back home from phosp. Don't you just hate when that happens.....there is finally this great big ray of hope and then "POOF" it is gone as fast as if came!!:confused:
I agree that what you are seeing is some rapid cycling/mixed states. It is really difficult to say with our girls because the irritability and agitation are signs of both depression and mania. There is a fine line there but it is definitely difficult for us parents to deal with not knowing when it is going to come or go. But her going from depression to activity at night on the computer is definitely increased cycling/mood swings.
I think that you are handling things really well, Pippin.;) The meltdown you described is warranted.....this all takes it's toll on us and seems to knock the wind out of us. Taking the nap was a good thing.....like when we brought our newborns home and it took alot out of us to care for their needs when they were so dependent on us, so must we do the same during this time. Our daughters need us to take care of their needs until we find the right meds. Even if it seems as if we never will, we must not lose hope and give our girls hope that we will find the right meds. Remind Erika of that feeling when she first got home from the phosp and that when the time comes that you finally have the right drug combo that she will feel good for many days and know that it was all worth it.
I think that your instincts to take her off the Concerta for the weekend is right on.....I am hoping that you will see some improvement and that you and the pdoc come up with a better plan.
As far as Erin, things are going pretty good (as you know it almost seems like a jinx to even say that;) ). We're now at 150mgs of Seroquel and on day #5 and yesterday was a good day and, while out today, Erin said that she thinks that something is finally kicking in:blob_fire ....she told me to remind her to call her pdoc on Monday so that she can discuss possibly increasing the Seroquel some more, that she is feeling better but feels that she might do better with a little bit more. This is a big thing for Erin to realize that something is happening enough for her to want to take control of her own meds enough to find the right dosage with the pdoc and be able to be an active participant in finding stability. I couldn't be happier.:D Of course I am trying not to get my hopes up too much, for as we all know things could change within a matter of hours or days. I am just looking forward to seeing a week like we have seen the past two days and then it will be real.
Tsohl....I too notice how easily many go off their meds only to find they're back to square one again only to find that the meds that were working do not work a second time around. That is my biggest fear since Erin has college ahead and may not be compliant with the meds and have us starting all over again. She has been talking about graduating high school a year earlier and that seems like a scary thing right now particularly since she is not yet stabilized. Perhaps this would be a good time for you to share your experience with that.;) You told me to let you know and I think the timing couldn't be more perfect.
Hope ~ I am hoping that things are going okay with Zac and that things are quiet for you and your family.
As usual I send lots of (((HUGS))) and good thoughts your way ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
I agree that what you are seeing is some rapid cycling/mixed states. It is really difficult to say with our girls because the irritability and agitation are signs of both depression and mania. There is a fine line there but it is definitely difficult for us parents to deal with not knowing when it is going to come or go. But her going from depression to activity at night on the computer is definitely increased cycling/mood swings.
I think that you are handling things really well, Pippin.;) The meltdown you described is warranted.....this all takes it's toll on us and seems to knock the wind out of us. Taking the nap was a good thing.....like when we brought our newborns home and it took alot out of us to care for their needs when they were so dependent on us, so must we do the same during this time. Our daughters need us to take care of their needs until we find the right meds. Even if it seems as if we never will, we must not lose hope and give our girls hope that we will find the right meds. Remind Erika of that feeling when she first got home from the phosp and that when the time comes that you finally have the right drug combo that she will feel good for many days and know that it was all worth it.
I think that your instincts to take her off the Concerta for the weekend is right on.....I am hoping that you will see some improvement and that you and the pdoc come up with a better plan.
As far as Erin, things are going pretty good (as you know it almost seems like a jinx to even say that;) ). We're now at 150mgs of Seroquel and on day #5 and yesterday was a good day and, while out today, Erin said that she thinks that something is finally kicking in:blob_fire ....she told me to remind her to call her pdoc on Monday so that she can discuss possibly increasing the Seroquel some more, that she is feeling better but feels that she might do better with a little bit more. This is a big thing for Erin to realize that something is happening enough for her to want to take control of her own meds enough to find the right dosage with the pdoc and be able to be an active participant in finding stability. I couldn't be happier.:D Of course I am trying not to get my hopes up too much, for as we all know things could change within a matter of hours or days. I am just looking forward to seeing a week like we have seen the past two days and then it will be real.
Tsohl....I too notice how easily many go off their meds only to find they're back to square one again only to find that the meds that were working do not work a second time around. That is my biggest fear since Erin has college ahead and may not be compliant with the meds and have us starting all over again. She has been talking about graduating high school a year earlier and that seems like a scary thing right now particularly since she is not yet stabilized. Perhaps this would be a good time for you to share your experience with that.;) You told me to let you know and I think the timing couldn't be more perfect.
Hope ~ I am hoping that things are going okay with Zac and that things are quiet for you and your family.
As usual I send lots of (((HUGS))) and good thoughts your way ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Pippinkitty
11-19-2006, 12:44 AM
Thanks Girls!:D
Things aren't any better but at least Erika is sleeping tonight. I talked to my sister tonight who's an RN. She has been learning more about bipolar-thank goodness. Surprisingly, she said I should think about a therapeutic residential facility. She's very direct person but is also a very devoted mother herself and I know she thought before she said this. I just don't know if I can live with that, though. Then I feel selfish because I know that in a very controlled environment she'd have a better chance of stabilization-especially with the start she already has on medication. She thinks Erika is more than can be handled in the home. I just don't know and don't really want to think about that right now. It would be like ripping my heart out and I can't imagine how it would feel for Erika. I seem to have a way of keeping very painful things at a superficial level for a while and then it hits me later. Right now the subject of residential is very superficial and call me Scarlett but I say "I'll worry about that tomorrow". I wish this were a nightmare I could take up from and walk in my daughter's room and see her minus the bipolar.
Better go to bed girls so I'm fresh for another day. Thanks for letting me lean on you. Tsohl I would also like to hear your story. Night! Pippin:yawn:
Things aren't any better but at least Erika is sleeping tonight. I talked to my sister tonight who's an RN. She has been learning more about bipolar-thank goodness. Surprisingly, she said I should think about a therapeutic residential facility. She's very direct person but is also a very devoted mother herself and I know she thought before she said this. I just don't know if I can live with that, though. Then I feel selfish because I know that in a very controlled environment she'd have a better chance of stabilization-especially with the start she already has on medication. She thinks Erika is more than can be handled in the home. I just don't know and don't really want to think about that right now. It would be like ripping my heart out and I can't imagine how it would feel for Erika. I seem to have a way of keeping very painful things at a superficial level for a while and then it hits me later. Right now the subject of residential is very superficial and call me Scarlett but I say "I'll worry about that tomorrow". I wish this were a nightmare I could take up from and walk in my daughter's room and see her minus the bipolar.
Better go to bed girls so I'm fresh for another day. Thanks for letting me lean on you. Tsohl I would also like to hear your story. Night! Pippin:yawn:
jules3
11-19-2006, 07:44 PM
I have been reading your posts and have alot of the same issues with my 21 yr old..we were told he may possibly be bipolar..and is taking effexor and seroquel for only a couple of days now...isnt seroquel and lamictal the same kind of drug? if so then why take both? im confused..and also how long does these drugs take to start working? he is in a bad way right now..in his room for days. this time of year has always been hard for him..its like his body craves sunlight..he is going to see his grandparents in fla..for thanksgiving weekend..hopefully it will be warm and sunny there..
goody2shuz
11-19-2006, 09:50 PM
Hi, Jules ~ First a big welcome...it sounds as if you are pretty much in the same boat as us in terms of finding the right meds that will make your son feel better. It does take time and an awful lot of patience. He is lucky to have a mom who cares about him and whom he seems to trust.
As far as the Seroquel...it is an an atypical antipsychotic which usually addresses the manic side of the imbalance but research now shows that it has great results in taking care of depression as well. It also will work on any anger, aggression, or impulsivity that may be present. It needs to be increased in increments and seems to work fairly quickly when increased to a usual dosage. The Lamictal on the other hand, needs to be titrated very slowly in order to avoid a nasty rash that is dangerous if not taken care of. The slower the med is increased the less likely one is to develop this rash. Lamictal is a mood stabilizer which also works on the depressive side of Bipolar. My daughter is on these two meds and we are hoping to see some improvement with them since she seems to exhibit more depressive components of the disorder.
I am a little confused....is your son on the Lamictal...I know that the Effexor is an antidepressant. If your son IS bipolar it is best to have a mood stabilizer in place before being on an antidepressant since most of the antidepressants can trigger a manic episode without one in place.
It will generally take a few weeks before you will see the meds working.....sometimes it takes months. The worst part of this whole process is finding the right combo....it is not as simple as knowing you have diabetes and taking insulin....the brain and it's chemistry is a whole different thing.
The fall months seem to trigger depression more readily. I sure hope that your son has some response to the meds soon.
Hang in there and feel free to ask any questions you may have. There are many here that will be more than happy to support you in any way that you may need....even if it is just to say hello.
I see that you opened your own thread which is a good idea to. I hope to see more of you and that you will soon be telling us of the improvements you see in your son once the meds start working.
~ Goody:angel: :wave:
As far as the Seroquel...it is an an atypical antipsychotic which usually addresses the manic side of the imbalance but research now shows that it has great results in taking care of depression as well. It also will work on any anger, aggression, or impulsivity that may be present. It needs to be increased in increments and seems to work fairly quickly when increased to a usual dosage. The Lamictal on the other hand, needs to be titrated very slowly in order to avoid a nasty rash that is dangerous if not taken care of. The slower the med is increased the less likely one is to develop this rash. Lamictal is a mood stabilizer which also works on the depressive side of Bipolar. My daughter is on these two meds and we are hoping to see some improvement with them since she seems to exhibit more depressive components of the disorder.
I am a little confused....is your son on the Lamictal...I know that the Effexor is an antidepressant. If your son IS bipolar it is best to have a mood stabilizer in place before being on an antidepressant since most of the antidepressants can trigger a manic episode without one in place.
It will generally take a few weeks before you will see the meds working.....sometimes it takes months. The worst part of this whole process is finding the right combo....it is not as simple as knowing you have diabetes and taking insulin....the brain and it's chemistry is a whole different thing.
The fall months seem to trigger depression more readily. I sure hope that your son has some response to the meds soon.
Hang in there and feel free to ask any questions you may have. There are many here that will be more than happy to support you in any way that you may need....even if it is just to say hello.
I see that you opened your own thread which is a good idea to. I hope to see more of you and that you will soon be telling us of the improvements you see in your son once the meds start working.
~ Goody:angel: :wave:
goody2shuz
11-19-2006, 10:14 PM
((((PIPPIN))))).....I know that the decision ahead is the most difficult one that you will make. I am here for you to offer any advice or support that you may need. As you may already know, Erin had 5 hospitalizations this past year. Her 4th was for 10 weeks and everyone feels, including Erin, that it was the one that helped her out the most. Although she is not yet stabilized, she is far better off than she was last year when we didn't know what was going on.
It will be a difficult decision and I guess what you must ask yourself is, will Erika receive more than she can get at home in terms of reaching stabilization in a therapeutic setting than she will at home with only the mental health resources that are available to you at this time as an outpatient??? If she were in a residential setting there would be around the clock care, you wouldn't have to worry about Erika at night and what she is doing. She would have more aggressive treatment in terms of meds being monitored with behavior and also group/individual therapy in which you will be actively involved in. Erika will be in an environment where her progress can be continuously monitored. In most of these centers there is a school program which will keep her up to par with her studies and balanced in with the emotional and mental needs that she has. I know that it is a realy tough decision and only you will be able to make it.
What does your pdoc & tdoc have to say???? And do you know any of the residential treatment centers in your area???
I believe that the stay can be as long as a year and sometimes sooner if stabilization occurs. Please keep us all posted to how you are feeling with all of this and how Erika is doing as well.
As always we are sending BIG (((((HUGS))))) and and endless supply of prayers your way.
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
It will be a difficult decision and I guess what you must ask yourself is, will Erika receive more than she can get at home in terms of reaching stabilization in a therapeutic setting than she will at home with only the mental health resources that are available to you at this time as an outpatient??? If she were in a residential setting there would be around the clock care, you wouldn't have to worry about Erika at night and what she is doing. She would have more aggressive treatment in terms of meds being monitored with behavior and also group/individual therapy in which you will be actively involved in. Erika will be in an environment where her progress can be continuously monitored. In most of these centers there is a school program which will keep her up to par with her studies and balanced in with the emotional and mental needs that she has. I know that it is a realy tough decision and only you will be able to make it.
What does your pdoc & tdoc have to say???? And do you know any of the residential treatment centers in your area???
I believe that the stay can be as long as a year and sometimes sooner if stabilization occurs. Please keep us all posted to how you are feeling with all of this and how Erika is doing as well.
As always we are sending BIG (((((HUGS))))) and and endless supply of prayers your way.
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
11-20-2006, 09:10 AM
ok thanks for the meds info...no hes not on lamictal..is seroquel a mood stabilizer also? is 100mgs to start too little? in your opinion?
goody2shuz
11-20-2006, 10:05 AM
Hi, again:wave: Seroquel is classified as an atypical antpsychotic that does have mood stabilizing abilities. In other words it addresses the manic as well as the depressive components of the disorder.
My daughter is now on 150mgs.....she started at 50mgs 2 weeks ago and they gradually increase until they find the dosage that helps. The increase is usually anywhere from a week to 10 days depending upon the person's sensitivity to meds. Each person will require a different dosage but it usually is around 800mgs per day on average in divided doses (eg: 300mg am, 200mg noon, & 300mg pm)
I hope that answers your questions.
~ Goody:angel: :wave:
My daughter is now on 150mgs.....she started at 50mgs 2 weeks ago and they gradually increase until they find the dosage that helps. The increase is usually anywhere from a week to 10 days depending upon the person's sensitivity to meds. Each person will require a different dosage but it usually is around 800mgs per day on average in divided doses (eg: 300mg am, 200mg noon, & 300mg pm)
I hope that answers your questions.
~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
11-20-2006, 10:29 AM
Oh my god, 800mgs a day sounds like so much..
goody2shuz
11-20-2006, 12:13 PM
Jules...I answered your question on your thread that way you don't need to be jumping from one place to another.;)
Pippin and Hope.....haven't heard from you two in a while and I am hoping that everything is okay. Please update us ASAP.
As far as Erin goes....the increase in Seroquel and Lamictal has us having good days and bad days....on Saturday Erin actually told me that she felt like the meds were starting to work we had a very nice day together and she asked when the therapaist would be coming next and to remind her to call the pdoc on Monday and how she was going to tell her that with a little more of an increase in the meds she might feel better.:) What a change....Erin taking responisibility for her own meds. This didn't last too long for yesterday she woke up agitated and angry & she was that way most of the day. We went to church & when her sister went out with friends and she couldn't be with hers (since she lost that privelege for behavior) she decided to take it out on us saying how we treat her differently and it isn't fair....she went into crying saying how she has no friends and only acquaintances blah, blah, blah. We were in the car at this time and when hubby explained how that wasn't true and how Kait often had it even worse than her she escalated into screaming at me that I was Bipolar and she had it because of me. She stormed into the house, took her meds and refused to eat dinner and went to bed. Hubby got up with her this morning and said she was in a better mood....we will have to see once she gets home later.
On a good note....we got Erin's first quarter marks. Honors English she got an 87, Honors Science 89, History (which she failed the last quarter last year) 83, Spanish a 97, Chorus 97, and Advance Math she failed with a 60. Despite it all she ended up with a 89 GPA:blob_fire She seemed equally pleased with her marks and told us that she is doing so much better in Math and that her teacher is her study hall teacher and working on helping her out so that this quarter will be better. I couldn't be more pleased.
We have parent-teacher conferences today and will be discussing her overall progress/grades and following up on the email that I sent each of them regarding Erin's diagnosis.
Hope all is well with everybody else ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Pippin and Hope.....haven't heard from you two in a while and I am hoping that everything is okay. Please update us ASAP.
As far as Erin goes....the increase in Seroquel and Lamictal has us having good days and bad days....on Saturday Erin actually told me that she felt like the meds were starting to work we had a very nice day together and she asked when the therapaist would be coming next and to remind her to call the pdoc on Monday and how she was going to tell her that with a little more of an increase in the meds she might feel better.:) What a change....Erin taking responisibility for her own meds. This didn't last too long for yesterday she woke up agitated and angry & she was that way most of the day. We went to church & when her sister went out with friends and she couldn't be with hers (since she lost that privelege for behavior) she decided to take it out on us saying how we treat her differently and it isn't fair....she went into crying saying how she has no friends and only acquaintances blah, blah, blah. We were in the car at this time and when hubby explained how that wasn't true and how Kait often had it even worse than her she escalated into screaming at me that I was Bipolar and she had it because of me. She stormed into the house, took her meds and refused to eat dinner and went to bed. Hubby got up with her this morning and said she was in a better mood....we will have to see once she gets home later.
On a good note....we got Erin's first quarter marks. Honors English she got an 87, Honors Science 89, History (which she failed the last quarter last year) 83, Spanish a 97, Chorus 97, and Advance Math she failed with a 60. Despite it all she ended up with a 89 GPA:blob_fire She seemed equally pleased with her marks and told us that she is doing so much better in Math and that her teacher is her study hall teacher and working on helping her out so that this quarter will be better. I couldn't be more pleased.
We have parent-teacher conferences today and will be discussing her overall progress/grades and following up on the email that I sent each of them regarding Erin's diagnosis.
Hope all is well with everybody else ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
langlee
11-20-2006, 12:48 PM
Hi All,
Wow - there has been a lot of activity! Pippin, you and Erika are on my mind constantly. I don't know that much about the medications, but I thought Concerta was often prescribed for ADHD and I know I've read that sometimes the medication for ADHD can conflict with the bipolar meds. Just something to think about.
I think your idea of getting a pdoc who specializes in bipolar is a good one. I've thought the same thing for Zac. I also can empathize completely about your questions about residential treatment. It may be the best solution for Erika, but it is hard to think about making these decisions without the expert advice of a medical professional you trust. Last year, a therapist I spoke to sometimes gave me the names of two adolescent in-patient treatment centers she had heard good things about. I trusted her, but since she wasn't Zac's therapist, I was resistant to make those decisions myself and no one working with Zac had heard of these places or seemed willing to investigate. I often wonder if we could have prevented some of his challenges if we had done something last year, but my husband always reminds me that you can't prove a negative.
Since your sister sounds willing to help, perhaps the two of you could do research and even visit the facilities while you look for a more specialized pdoc. I KNOW how hard this is, Pippin, and I am glad you come to us for support. There is so little we can do, but please know that we are there for you and Erika 100%! Keep us posted. Hopefully, stopping the Concerta for the weekend helped.
Zac has had a good weekend, but like Goody, I fear even saying that. We all went to the mall yesterday and had dinner out. He is talking now about becoming a psychiatrist, which is amazing since he doesn't love math or science. I can tell, though, that he is really trying to figure out how to make this experience meaningful and what he can do to help others who are struggling. Zac is a very astute young man and when he is thinking clearly, he is incredible! I can definitely see him someday helping others. We just have to keep working at getting him centered.
He is very apprehensive about going back to school, even for a partial day. He doesn't want to be questioned about where he has been and is concerned about the stress and pressure. We will transition very slowly, but we have to come up with a plan. The IOP has been wonderful in many ways, but none of us want him to become too dependent on it. One of the things they have taught him that has been helpful is yoga. I highly recommend it as something to investigate for the girls and Jules' son when he is up to it. Zac finds it definitely helps him reduce the stress and takes him outside of himself, something he so desperately needs.
Well, that's it for now. More to follow. You are all in my thoughts and prayers.
Love,
Hope
Wow - there has been a lot of activity! Pippin, you and Erika are on my mind constantly. I don't know that much about the medications, but I thought Concerta was often prescribed for ADHD and I know I've read that sometimes the medication for ADHD can conflict with the bipolar meds. Just something to think about.
I think your idea of getting a pdoc who specializes in bipolar is a good one. I've thought the same thing for Zac. I also can empathize completely about your questions about residential treatment. It may be the best solution for Erika, but it is hard to think about making these decisions without the expert advice of a medical professional you trust. Last year, a therapist I spoke to sometimes gave me the names of two adolescent in-patient treatment centers she had heard good things about. I trusted her, but since she wasn't Zac's therapist, I was resistant to make those decisions myself and no one working with Zac had heard of these places or seemed willing to investigate. I often wonder if we could have prevented some of his challenges if we had done something last year, but my husband always reminds me that you can't prove a negative.
Since your sister sounds willing to help, perhaps the two of you could do research and even visit the facilities while you look for a more specialized pdoc. I KNOW how hard this is, Pippin, and I am glad you come to us for support. There is so little we can do, but please know that we are there for you and Erika 100%! Keep us posted. Hopefully, stopping the Concerta for the weekend helped.
Zac has had a good weekend, but like Goody, I fear even saying that. We all went to the mall yesterday and had dinner out. He is talking now about becoming a psychiatrist, which is amazing since he doesn't love math or science. I can tell, though, that he is really trying to figure out how to make this experience meaningful and what he can do to help others who are struggling. Zac is a very astute young man and when he is thinking clearly, he is incredible! I can definitely see him someday helping others. We just have to keep working at getting him centered.
He is very apprehensive about going back to school, even for a partial day. He doesn't want to be questioned about where he has been and is concerned about the stress and pressure. We will transition very slowly, but we have to come up with a plan. The IOP has been wonderful in many ways, but none of us want him to become too dependent on it. One of the things they have taught him that has been helpful is yoga. I highly recommend it as something to investigate for the girls and Jules' son when he is up to it. Zac finds it definitely helps him reduce the stress and takes him outside of himself, something he so desperately needs.
Well, that's it for now. More to follow. You are all in my thoughts and prayers.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
11-20-2006, 08:10 PM
Hi all,
Yes, Hope, our son has been stable for about 18 months and is doing well. And it did take about a year to find the right mix. This was after following a different pdoc's advice for a year, and then another pdoc for another 6 months...so it has been a long, slow process. At one point, we thought it might be a good idea for him to enter a residential setting where they could change his meds more rapidly. After a day and a half, son decided this was not for him and he demanded to be "released." So he has always been calling the shots regarding his own treatment.
Regarding Erin wanting to graduate from high school early, I can't imagine that this would be a good idea. I think it would just add layers of stress and create that many more issues for her to have to cope with. I'm hoping that as she has success in high school and as her meds kick in and she can enjoy things a bit more, she will realize that this is not a good plan for her. I did go off to college when I was 16 and I have never regretted it. However I think my situation was rather unique. I am an only child. I was always tall for my age, mature for my age and from the time I was in first grade, people always assumed I was older. I grew up in a city where a major state university was located. I was sufficiently advanced in my coursework that I was given the choice of taking senior English at the high school and then taking the rest of my courses at the university. I thought that was silly, so I took one class in summer school and petitioned the school board to allow me to finish early.
Today things are different. The pressure to get into a "good" college is much more intense. There are so many more AP classes now, and also other kinds of interesting educational opportunities that weren't available when I was in high school. Kids are so much more competitive. I really can't imagine going off to college at age 16 now!! Plus it limits the number of plays you can be in, the experience you get from performing in choir, chorus, etc. I am guessing that Erin just wants to get out of the house at this point. She's unhappy in general and she probably feels high school is stupid. From her viewpoint I'm sure Kait's newfound freedom looks wonderful and she wants it, too. No one running her life, telling her what she may or may not do, rules, punishments, etc. In reality, I think she probably needs all the time she has to get herself stablized, to learn how to deal with her bipolar, how to recognize situations that might trigger episodes, just how to take care of herself. She needs to make the academic situation easier for herself, not harder and even more stressful. If you have specific questions about going off to college early, I will try to answer them. But you don't need to worry about that for a couple years, right?
You've mentioned several times that Erin blames you for her bipolar. Why do you think she keeps saying that you have bipolar disorder?
Glad to hear your kids are having a couple good days now. And I'm hoping that Erika is a little better by today, also. best, Tsohl.
Yes, Hope, our son has been stable for about 18 months and is doing well. And it did take about a year to find the right mix. This was after following a different pdoc's advice for a year, and then another pdoc for another 6 months...so it has been a long, slow process. At one point, we thought it might be a good idea for him to enter a residential setting where they could change his meds more rapidly. After a day and a half, son decided this was not for him and he demanded to be "released." So he has always been calling the shots regarding his own treatment.
Regarding Erin wanting to graduate from high school early, I can't imagine that this would be a good idea. I think it would just add layers of stress and create that many more issues for her to have to cope with. I'm hoping that as she has success in high school and as her meds kick in and she can enjoy things a bit more, she will realize that this is not a good plan for her. I did go off to college when I was 16 and I have never regretted it. However I think my situation was rather unique. I am an only child. I was always tall for my age, mature for my age and from the time I was in first grade, people always assumed I was older. I grew up in a city where a major state university was located. I was sufficiently advanced in my coursework that I was given the choice of taking senior English at the high school and then taking the rest of my courses at the university. I thought that was silly, so I took one class in summer school and petitioned the school board to allow me to finish early.
Today things are different. The pressure to get into a "good" college is much more intense. There are so many more AP classes now, and also other kinds of interesting educational opportunities that weren't available when I was in high school. Kids are so much more competitive. I really can't imagine going off to college at age 16 now!! Plus it limits the number of plays you can be in, the experience you get from performing in choir, chorus, etc. I am guessing that Erin just wants to get out of the house at this point. She's unhappy in general and she probably feels high school is stupid. From her viewpoint I'm sure Kait's newfound freedom looks wonderful and she wants it, too. No one running her life, telling her what she may or may not do, rules, punishments, etc. In reality, I think she probably needs all the time she has to get herself stablized, to learn how to deal with her bipolar, how to recognize situations that might trigger episodes, just how to take care of herself. She needs to make the academic situation easier for herself, not harder and even more stressful. If you have specific questions about going off to college early, I will try to answer them. But you don't need to worry about that for a couple years, right?
You've mentioned several times that Erin blames you for her bipolar. Why do you think she keeps saying that you have bipolar disorder?
Glad to hear your kids are having a couple good days now. And I'm hoping that Erika is a little better by today, also. best, Tsohl.
Pippinkitty
11-20-2006, 11:02 PM
Thanks girls for all the hugs and support. Erika has improved a bit and I do attribute the improvement to not giving her Concerta for the last three days. I have decided to change pdocs. She had therapy tonight and her therapist talks to both of us (for about 15 min.) about every other visit. During this session Erika told her that trying to do any kind of concentrating is painful for her. She has two hours of instruction a day and has been working pretty good with her instructor.
Hope, it's funny you say Zac wants to be a psychiatrist. Erika has recently said she will probably be a therapist because that's one thing she thinks she would be good at.
Better go. Erika is up again. Pippin
Hope, it's funny you say Zac wants to be a psychiatrist. Erika has recently said she will probably be a therapist because that's one thing she thinks she would be good at.
Better go. Erika is up again. Pippin
langlee
11-21-2006, 11:20 PM
Hi All-
Just got back from the pdoc with Zac. He's happy with Zac's progress and is upping the Lamictal to 150 mg. Zac has been in a good place for several days now and we are hoping that the medication is finally kicking in! You never know and we are keeping our fingers crossed!
I am concerned that Zac continues to have anxiety attacks. He is controlling them with the Seroquel but I'm not sure how he will transition back to a regular routine. His day doesn't start until 10 AM right now and even though he is managing a full course load with home instruction, it certainly isn't like being in class. On the other hand, I'm just thankful that we haven't had any outbursts.
The pdoc said something interesting tonight. He said he has 4 bipolar teens and that is all his practice can handle because treating bipolar is such an imprecise science and it takes so much time. He was not unkind at all, just matter of fact. It's an interesting comment because several of us have said that we'd like to find pdocs who specialize in bipolar and yet, listening to him, I can see how frustrating it is for busy pdocs too. As a parent, I want someone who is totally focused on getting my child healthy and I think Zac's pdoc does genuinely care about him, but he is setting limits for himself so he can be successful with all of his patients. It's something I will remember next time I call in a panic so I can set expectations of what I need from him and when. To his credit, he does give out his cell phone number for emergencies and is usually good about returning calls. I have to remember to be as articulate as I can about the problem so I can get the best response. Something for me to think about.
I'm thinking about Erika, Erin and Jules' son and wondering how they are doing. And, Tsohl, I think of your son often as well and am thankful for his stability and success. I hope it continues for a long, long time and his life becomes the one he always wanted.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
Love,
Hope
Just got back from the pdoc with Zac. He's happy with Zac's progress and is upping the Lamictal to 150 mg. Zac has been in a good place for several days now and we are hoping that the medication is finally kicking in! You never know and we are keeping our fingers crossed!
I am concerned that Zac continues to have anxiety attacks. He is controlling them with the Seroquel but I'm not sure how he will transition back to a regular routine. His day doesn't start until 10 AM right now and even though he is managing a full course load with home instruction, it certainly isn't like being in class. On the other hand, I'm just thankful that we haven't had any outbursts.
The pdoc said something interesting tonight. He said he has 4 bipolar teens and that is all his practice can handle because treating bipolar is such an imprecise science and it takes so much time. He was not unkind at all, just matter of fact. It's an interesting comment because several of us have said that we'd like to find pdocs who specialize in bipolar and yet, listening to him, I can see how frustrating it is for busy pdocs too. As a parent, I want someone who is totally focused on getting my child healthy and I think Zac's pdoc does genuinely care about him, but he is setting limits for himself so he can be successful with all of his patients. It's something I will remember next time I call in a panic so I can set expectations of what I need from him and when. To his credit, he does give out his cell phone number for emergencies and is usually good about returning calls. I have to remember to be as articulate as I can about the problem so I can get the best response. Something for me to think about.
I'm thinking about Erika, Erin and Jules' son and wondering how they are doing. And, Tsohl, I think of your son often as well and am thankful for his stability and success. I hope it continues for a long, long time and his life becomes the one he always wanted.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
Love,
Hope
tsohl
11-22-2006, 12:04 AM
Hi Hope,
The comments from your pdoc are very interesting. I know there are some pdocs that won't even accept bipolar patients, or at least prefer not to. It is interesting to hear one verbalize why! I'm thrilled that you've had several good days with Zac. He'll get his confidence back as he starts stringing "good" days together...just remember that progress usually doesn't go at as quick a pace as we'd like or hope for. And sometimes there are potholes along the way....Hope you have a wonderful and peaceful Thanksgiving. regards, Tsohl.
The comments from your pdoc are very interesting. I know there are some pdocs that won't even accept bipolar patients, or at least prefer not to. It is interesting to hear one verbalize why! I'm thrilled that you've had several good days with Zac. He'll get his confidence back as he starts stringing "good" days together...just remember that progress usually doesn't go at as quick a pace as we'd like or hope for. And sometimes there are potholes along the way....Hope you have a wonderful and peaceful Thanksgiving. regards, Tsohl.
jules3
11-22-2006, 09:20 AM
thanks for thinking about my son..last night he went from being depressed in his room in the dark..to getting some phone calls from friends home from college..getting up ,getting dressed extremely hyper..foul language etcc....my husband and i just look at each other in shock..he goes from 1 extreme to the next...nothing in between...he did go out with friends came home 2am pretty drunk...he is on effexor and seroquel..now im worried how alcohol will interfere with them..i am always on edge and lost 10 lbs in the last month just from the stress of all this..i dont know how much more i can handle...do you actually watch a 20 yr.old swallow pills? im afaid he might not take them everyday. and i know how they help..
tsohl
11-22-2006, 12:28 PM
Hi Jules,
We can all empathize with what you're going through. This is going to sound crazy to you, but there is a certain amount of "letting go" that you have to do in order to protect your own health and sanity. When I first "met" Goody, almost every time I posted, I urged her to be patient and tried to tell her she was expecting too much too soon from a couple little pills. There is no magic cure for bipolar; as you know, there is no cure at all. Unfortunately there is no way for a pdoc to know which med is going to "work" for which patient. It is literally trial and error and it can take a long time. Obviously things are complicated by this when the patient is not compliant. The more I read on these boards, the more I realize how very lucky I am in that my son realizes he feels well on his meds and his life is hell without them. He has accepted that he cannot drink or use street drugs. There were several years in there before he was willing to comply with his pdoc. The pdoc was unwilling to treat him if he continued drinking and/or smoking pot. And at the time, that was fine with my son. It took a major episode where he checked himself into a private psych. hospital to change his thinking. After a day of being there, he refused to stay any longer, demanded to be let out and he made up his mind that he wouldn't be going back. It's been a slow process but he has been stable now for 18 months.
I think you know that your son cannot drink and expect the meds to "work."
And of course, it can be dangerous to his health to mix alcohal with antidepressants and atypical antipsychotics. Not so great on his liver, either.
Does your son live with you? If so, you should be able to tell by the number of pills left in the bottle if he is compliant in taking his meds. Then I guess it is up to you how to proceed. I think your first post indicated that your son was newly diagnosed and it sounds like he hasn't accepted his diagnosis. It also sounds like he is rapid cycling and that his meds will need to be adjusted.
I hope he will let you go with him to his next pdoc appointment.
Hopefully others will chime in with suggestions as to how to get him to take his meds. You must take care of yourself or you won't be any help to your son. You do not have a situation here that is going to resolve itself in a matter of weeks. You're in it for the long haul. I would suggest you start reading and doing research on bipolar. You might want to check out the website of NAMI and you might even want to attend a meeting if there are any in your area. NAMI has groups all over the country and is a wonderful resource for education, referrals and support. You need to learn as much as you can so that you can support your son and help him to understand that this is a condition that he must learn to manage. It is possible to do so and to lead a fairly normal life, but, ultimately it will be up to him and how he handles it. Tough for a 20-year old to handle, no doubt about it.
Is your son still going to Florida? Do the grandparents know that he has been given this diagnosis and that he is on meds?
I hope you find something in what I've written helpful and that I haven't just scared you further. That is not my intention!! I just want you to realize that this is not an easy diagnosis to deal with, but it can be managed and there is hope. I'm hoping that your son will take his meds. He will need to be very open and honest with his pdoc and will need to work with him to find the combination of meds that is just right for him. Please keep posting. I'll be eager to know how you, your family and your son are doing. Take care, Tsohl.
We can all empathize with what you're going through. This is going to sound crazy to you, but there is a certain amount of "letting go" that you have to do in order to protect your own health and sanity. When I first "met" Goody, almost every time I posted, I urged her to be patient and tried to tell her she was expecting too much too soon from a couple little pills. There is no magic cure for bipolar; as you know, there is no cure at all. Unfortunately there is no way for a pdoc to know which med is going to "work" for which patient. It is literally trial and error and it can take a long time. Obviously things are complicated by this when the patient is not compliant. The more I read on these boards, the more I realize how very lucky I am in that my son realizes he feels well on his meds and his life is hell without them. He has accepted that he cannot drink or use street drugs. There were several years in there before he was willing to comply with his pdoc. The pdoc was unwilling to treat him if he continued drinking and/or smoking pot. And at the time, that was fine with my son. It took a major episode where he checked himself into a private psych. hospital to change his thinking. After a day of being there, he refused to stay any longer, demanded to be let out and he made up his mind that he wouldn't be going back. It's been a slow process but he has been stable now for 18 months.
I think you know that your son cannot drink and expect the meds to "work."
And of course, it can be dangerous to his health to mix alcohal with antidepressants and atypical antipsychotics. Not so great on his liver, either.
Does your son live with you? If so, you should be able to tell by the number of pills left in the bottle if he is compliant in taking his meds. Then I guess it is up to you how to proceed. I think your first post indicated that your son was newly diagnosed and it sounds like he hasn't accepted his diagnosis. It also sounds like he is rapid cycling and that his meds will need to be adjusted.
I hope he will let you go with him to his next pdoc appointment.
Hopefully others will chime in with suggestions as to how to get him to take his meds. You must take care of yourself or you won't be any help to your son. You do not have a situation here that is going to resolve itself in a matter of weeks. You're in it for the long haul. I would suggest you start reading and doing research on bipolar. You might want to check out the website of NAMI and you might even want to attend a meeting if there are any in your area. NAMI has groups all over the country and is a wonderful resource for education, referrals and support. You need to learn as much as you can so that you can support your son and help him to understand that this is a condition that he must learn to manage. It is possible to do so and to lead a fairly normal life, but, ultimately it will be up to him and how he handles it. Tough for a 20-year old to handle, no doubt about it.
Is your son still going to Florida? Do the grandparents know that he has been given this diagnosis and that he is on meds?
I hope you find something in what I've written helpful and that I haven't just scared you further. That is not my intention!! I just want you to realize that this is not an easy diagnosis to deal with, but it can be managed and there is hope. I'm hoping that your son will take his meds. He will need to be very open and honest with his pdoc and will need to work with him to find the combination of meds that is just right for him. Please keep posting. I'll be eager to know how you, your family and your son are doing. Take care, Tsohl.
tsohl
11-22-2006, 12:31 PM
'Morning all.
Just a quick note to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving and that you have peace in your households over the long weekend. I'll be thinking about you .
best, Tsohl
Just a quick note to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving and that you have peace in your households over the long weekend. I'll be thinking about you .
best, Tsohl
langlee
11-22-2006, 03:33 PM
Dear Jules,
I can't add much to Tsohl's great advice, but I will tell you something that was helpful to me. When we first learned of our son's bipolar diagnosis, I thought it was something we would mangage and get past. I found out that it's not that easy and what I realized is that I needed to pace myself differently. I came to see it as a disease we are fighting to get stabilized, and once stabilized, I can go back to thinking of it as a managable disorder. For now, we are fighting it the same way we would would fight an elusive physical disease, full of setbacks and disappointments in our path to progress.
It's helpful to me because it reset my expectations. When I saw my son as basically well, with a problem, I was constantly frustrated every time we had a setback. Now that I view him as sick on the path to better health, I have paced myself differently and the setbacks are not as earth-shattering to me.
It has also made me more empathetic to his struggles because some of his struggles have been high irritability, anger, verbal abusivenss and it is hard not to take it personally. But, I know it's not him acting that way, but his unmanaged disease, and we are working towards the day that his bipolar is not taking center stage in his life.
Your son is in a tough spot right now. The meds haven't kicked in, he doesn't feel well, he's upset about the diagnosis (whether he admits it or not) and he is probably fighting it in his mind. Try to give it some time and remind him that once the meds kick in, he will feel completely differently. Try to find a routine for the meds. I put them out for my son, next to his breakfast or hand them to him before bed and I do watch him take them. I'm not trying to be his medication police, but I remind him how easy it is to forget them or to miss them. Encourage your son to try compliance to see how he feels. He may be resistant now, but if he continues to feel awful, he should change his mind.
Good luck and keep posting.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Hope
I can't add much to Tsohl's great advice, but I will tell you something that was helpful to me. When we first learned of our son's bipolar diagnosis, I thought it was something we would mangage and get past. I found out that it's not that easy and what I realized is that I needed to pace myself differently. I came to see it as a disease we are fighting to get stabilized, and once stabilized, I can go back to thinking of it as a managable disorder. For now, we are fighting it the same way we would would fight an elusive physical disease, full of setbacks and disappointments in our path to progress.
It's helpful to me because it reset my expectations. When I saw my son as basically well, with a problem, I was constantly frustrated every time we had a setback. Now that I view him as sick on the path to better health, I have paced myself differently and the setbacks are not as earth-shattering to me.
It has also made me more empathetic to his struggles because some of his struggles have been high irritability, anger, verbal abusivenss and it is hard not to take it personally. But, I know it's not him acting that way, but his unmanaged disease, and we are working towards the day that his bipolar is not taking center stage in his life.
Your son is in a tough spot right now. The meds haven't kicked in, he doesn't feel well, he's upset about the diagnosis (whether he admits it or not) and he is probably fighting it in his mind. Try to give it some time and remind him that once the meds kick in, he will feel completely differently. Try to find a routine for the meds. I put them out for my son, next to his breakfast or hand them to him before bed and I do watch him take them. I'm not trying to be his medication police, but I remind him how easy it is to forget them or to miss them. Encourage your son to try compliance to see how he feels. He may be resistant now, but if he continues to feel awful, he should change his mind.
Good luck and keep posting.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Hope
tsohl
11-22-2006, 04:18 PM
Hope,
You phrased that very well. And I can remember when the "change" occurred in you and your attitude. And I think it has made it easier for you to cope, right? I hope Jules understands what you said and will take it to heart!
Hope Zac is continuing to feel better and that things have smoothed over a bit between him and your hubbie. I think this is a tough disorder for husbands to grasp. I guess it's because society trains them to be skeptical of emotion and they don't really give themselves permission to express any openly. So it is really hard for them to understand how someone could have something that seems emotional and yet, can't control it. I think the attitude is to think "well, try harder." "Get a hold of yourself!" Also, we're so used to problems that have a solution and if you try hard enough, you solve it. Bipolar disorder certainly doesn't fall into that category and it takes awhile to understand that.
I'll be curious to know what you decide about schooling. You may find that a full regular school day is just too much. This was the case with a couple of my son's friends. The school was able to make arrangements so the kids had their classes from something like 10-2 and didn't have to be there the rest of the time. Hopefully you will be able to work something out that is best for Zac. all for now. Best, Tsohl
You phrased that very well. And I can remember when the "change" occurred in you and your attitude. And I think it has made it easier for you to cope, right? I hope Jules understands what you said and will take it to heart!
Hope Zac is continuing to feel better and that things have smoothed over a bit between him and your hubbie. I think this is a tough disorder for husbands to grasp. I guess it's because society trains them to be skeptical of emotion and they don't really give themselves permission to express any openly. So it is really hard for them to understand how someone could have something that seems emotional and yet, can't control it. I think the attitude is to think "well, try harder." "Get a hold of yourself!" Also, we're so used to problems that have a solution and if you try hard enough, you solve it. Bipolar disorder certainly doesn't fall into that category and it takes awhile to understand that.
I'll be curious to know what you decide about schooling. You may find that a full regular school day is just too much. This was the case with a couple of my son's friends. The school was able to make arrangements so the kids had their classes from something like 10-2 and didn't have to be there the rest of the time. Hopefully you will be able to work something out that is best for Zac. all for now. Best, Tsohl
jules3
11-22-2006, 04:51 PM
Ts, yes he did go to florida this a.m to see my parents and they are aware of his bp..they are so happy to have him there for thanksgiving. you have helped me so much..i do know i need to step back just a little, its definitly affecting my 2 younger children and i dont want that to happen. how old is your son?
my mom will make sure he takes his meds while he is there..and i will do everything in my power to make sure he takes them when he comes home..And i will go with him to his doc appt. on tuesday. also im doing a ton of research on the internet and unfourtantly i think its upsetting more. But i still feel like i need to know all i can about bp. again thanks so much for all your help...you guys are great..
my mom will make sure he takes his meds while he is there..and i will do everything in my power to make sure he takes them when he comes home..And i will go with him to his doc appt. on tuesday. also im doing a ton of research on the internet and unfourtantly i think its upsetting more. But i still feel like i need to know all i can about bp. again thanks so much for all your help...you guys are great..
langlee
11-22-2006, 04:54 PM
Hi Tsohl,
Yes, changing my thinking has calmed me down considerably and I don't feel as desperate as I did to find all of the right solutions right away. Things have gotten better with Zac and my husband, too, but part of that is because Zac is calm now. My husband does really well when Zac is crumbling, but is not good when Zac is irritable or aggressive. You are completely right. He has somewhat of the attitude that Zac should just get it together, but I think it has helped him, too, to see Zac as dealing with an illness right now.
I appreciate your questions about the school. How did your son's friends who had the shorter day in high school do once they went to college? For me, it's such a balancing act. Zac is incredibly bright, but he has been struggling with the routine of school. I don't want to push him more than he's able, yet I know he will be disappointed if he is not able to go to a college that is intellectually stimulating. (providing he's well enough) I have to speak to the educational consultants, but it's hard to know what I'm even looking for because he has been out of his routine for so long. Do you have any insight?
I'd appreciate any and all thoughts.
Be well, my friend. Thanks for caring about us.
Hope
Yes, changing my thinking has calmed me down considerably and I don't feel as desperate as I did to find all of the right solutions right away. Things have gotten better with Zac and my husband, too, but part of that is because Zac is calm now. My husband does really well when Zac is crumbling, but is not good when Zac is irritable or aggressive. You are completely right. He has somewhat of the attitude that Zac should just get it together, but I think it has helped him, too, to see Zac as dealing with an illness right now.
I appreciate your questions about the school. How did your son's friends who had the shorter day in high school do once they went to college? For me, it's such a balancing act. Zac is incredibly bright, but he has been struggling with the routine of school. I don't want to push him more than he's able, yet I know he will be disappointed if he is not able to go to a college that is intellectually stimulating. (providing he's well enough) I have to speak to the educational consultants, but it's hard to know what I'm even looking for because he has been out of his routine for so long. Do you have any insight?
I'd appreciate any and all thoughts.
Be well, my friend. Thanks for caring about us.
Hope
langlee
11-22-2006, 04:59 PM
Dear Jules,
I know that the research can be overwhelming, but I truly believe there is hope. I think it's great that your son was able to go to Florida - a change in scenery and some bright light might be what he needs to break his cycle and it gives you some needed rest and the chance to focus on your other 2 children.
Keep asking questions and know that others are sharing your journey.
Always,
Hope
I know that the research can be overwhelming, but I truly believe there is hope. I think it's great that your son was able to go to Florida - a change in scenery and some bright light might be what he needs to break his cycle and it gives you some needed rest and the chance to focus on your other 2 children.
Keep asking questions and know that others are sharing your journey.
Always,
Hope
tsohl
11-22-2006, 06:02 PM
Hi Hope,
I am still struggling with how much you can push. Unfortunately you usually don't find out it's too much until it's too much for the child and then you find out the hard way!! This is still a problem even now for me. Our son seems so well and so stable that it seems to me he could do anything...but I know that's not the case. There are still some things that, if required to do, would really drive him nuts!! Like his old job....
I think college is easier than high school because you're really only in class a couple hours a day unless you have a lot of labs. You can pretty much structure your life according to your needs. You can choose classes that don't meet at 8 a.m. if you have trouble with early mornings, for example. You can even choose the kind of college you attend so that it matches your strengths and avoids your weaknesses. My son and one friend were both able to graduate in 4 years. His other friend has not graduated yet, but she developed some other health problems that required some surgeries on her hip and she's had a tough road. The one friend majored in psychology, with the thought of pursuing work in clinical psychology. (Both his parents are physicians.) But while in school he worked in a camera shop and developed a love for photography. He changed his career plans and has now enrolled in a 4-year art school and is pursuing his love for photography. You would never know from looking at my son's college experience that he is bipolar.
Both my son and his friend are both very bright, too. What year in school is Zac? Or where would he have been this year...a sophomore? Just so you know, admissions depts. are mainly interested in junior and senior year grades.
If I were you, I would go in soon and talk to your high school's college guidance person, or speak to an educational consultant who could advise you on this. There just might be some things that would be helpful to be aware of now that would help Zac when it comes time to apply to colleges. There's no reason why he can't still get into a top college. After all, bright kids who are home-schooled can get into top colleges...I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I know it is possible. Another thought for the future would be something like the following: after Zac gets his meds straightened out and realizes he can still achieve at the same level, you might want him to look into a 5th year program...what I'm thinking is, if he's interested in pursuing his music, he could take a 5th year at a school like Interlochen where there are others doing the same thing--almost all his classes would be in music and he might want to take a couple AP classes in academic subjects. This would show the college admissions people that he is capable of doing the work, that he is serious about his music, and would make him stand out from the masses....this is just an example of one way you could handle things...I'm sure there are many. Anyway, you have time to think about these things.
I would stress to Zac that while things probably seem somewhat hopeless at the moment and he probably thinks he'll have to give up his dreams, that isn't necessarily so. A lot of it will depend on Zac's attitude and how he handles his diagnosis.
Keep asking questions as you think of them. That jogs my memory! best, Tsohl.
I am still struggling with how much you can push. Unfortunately you usually don't find out it's too much until it's too much for the child and then you find out the hard way!! This is still a problem even now for me. Our son seems so well and so stable that it seems to me he could do anything...but I know that's not the case. There are still some things that, if required to do, would really drive him nuts!! Like his old job....
I think college is easier than high school because you're really only in class a couple hours a day unless you have a lot of labs. You can pretty much structure your life according to your needs. You can choose classes that don't meet at 8 a.m. if you have trouble with early mornings, for example. You can even choose the kind of college you attend so that it matches your strengths and avoids your weaknesses. My son and one friend were both able to graduate in 4 years. His other friend has not graduated yet, but she developed some other health problems that required some surgeries on her hip and she's had a tough road. The one friend majored in psychology, with the thought of pursuing work in clinical psychology. (Both his parents are physicians.) But while in school he worked in a camera shop and developed a love for photography. He changed his career plans and has now enrolled in a 4-year art school and is pursuing his love for photography. You would never know from looking at my son's college experience that he is bipolar.
Both my son and his friend are both very bright, too. What year in school is Zac? Or where would he have been this year...a sophomore? Just so you know, admissions depts. are mainly interested in junior and senior year grades.
If I were you, I would go in soon and talk to your high school's college guidance person, or speak to an educational consultant who could advise you on this. There just might be some things that would be helpful to be aware of now that would help Zac when it comes time to apply to colleges. There's no reason why he can't still get into a top college. After all, bright kids who are home-schooled can get into top colleges...I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I know it is possible. Another thought for the future would be something like the following: after Zac gets his meds straightened out and realizes he can still achieve at the same level, you might want him to look into a 5th year program...what I'm thinking is, if he's interested in pursuing his music, he could take a 5th year at a school like Interlochen where there are others doing the same thing--almost all his classes would be in music and he might want to take a couple AP classes in academic subjects. This would show the college admissions people that he is capable of doing the work, that he is serious about his music, and would make him stand out from the masses....this is just an example of one way you could handle things...I'm sure there are many. Anyway, you have time to think about these things.
I would stress to Zac that while things probably seem somewhat hopeless at the moment and he probably thinks he'll have to give up his dreams, that isn't necessarily so. A lot of it will depend on Zac's attitude and how he handles his diagnosis.
Keep asking questions as you think of them. That jogs my memory! best, Tsohl.
tsohl
11-22-2006, 06:34 PM
Hi Jules,
I'm glad your son got to go on his trip. My son is also affected by the dark, fall weather but has learned how to deal with it.
My son is almost 25. He was not diagnosed until his junior year in college, although he feels he developed bipolar around 9th grade. He was initially put on lithium which worked ok but didn't take care of everything. After graduation when he began working full time in a job with a lot of stress, he went through difficult times. We went through 3 pdocs and what seems like every drug in the world before finding the right combination that worked for him, with the fewest side effects. I missed out on most of the traumas that the other moms are experiencing now as he was over 18 and away most of the time when his bipolar really began to affect his life. I do have some experience of what it is like however, as he had several close friends who were diagnosed around 7th or 8th grade. (That was back in my more ignorant days!). In my opinion, it is more difficult as the kids get older as you have no legal rights and it is almost impossible to intervene. I have two friends whose children are a bit older than mine. One has no idea where her son is, or even whether he is dead or alive. Last she knew, he was homeless, living on the street in L.A. There is a very fine line that separates kids like my son from those on the street who are living with mental illness....but that's a topic for another day.
Rest up while your son is away, and gather strength for his return. It's great that your parents are supportive. Wishing you a happy Thanksgiving. Tsohl
I'm glad your son got to go on his trip. My son is also affected by the dark, fall weather but has learned how to deal with it.
My son is almost 25. He was not diagnosed until his junior year in college, although he feels he developed bipolar around 9th grade. He was initially put on lithium which worked ok but didn't take care of everything. After graduation when he began working full time in a job with a lot of stress, he went through difficult times. We went through 3 pdocs and what seems like every drug in the world before finding the right combination that worked for him, with the fewest side effects. I missed out on most of the traumas that the other moms are experiencing now as he was over 18 and away most of the time when his bipolar really began to affect his life. I do have some experience of what it is like however, as he had several close friends who were diagnosed around 7th or 8th grade. (That was back in my more ignorant days!). In my opinion, it is more difficult as the kids get older as you have no legal rights and it is almost impossible to intervene. I have two friends whose children are a bit older than mine. One has no idea where her son is, or even whether he is dead or alive. Last she knew, he was homeless, living on the street in L.A. There is a very fine line that separates kids like my son from those on the street who are living with mental illness....but that's a topic for another day.
Rest up while your son is away, and gather strength for his return. It's great that your parents are supportive. Wishing you a happy Thanksgiving. Tsohl
jules3
11-22-2006, 06:49 PM
Yes i know the sun will help him..hes always had a problem this time of year..sunlight is a wonderful thing for him...btw, he is a junior in college as of last year, he had a 3.8 and was on the deans list..hes extremely bright, thats how he compensates. but, we havent seen any grades for this semester so far..we shall see..He goes to a private university ,which is pretty expensive even tho he lives at home...we sure are enjoying the peace around here...thanks!
tsohl
11-23-2006, 01:59 PM
Hello ladies,
Hope you all read the article on the front page of the NY Times this morning (Thursday) regarding medicating young people with psychiatric drugs...."Proof is Scant on Psychiatric Drug Mix for Young." It is quite interesting. Hope you're all enjoying a peaceful Thanksgiving. Remember to stop and think about all your blessings. It's easy to get hung up on what's wrong with your children. Be thankful for what's right with them!! love, Tsohl
Hope you all read the article on the front page of the NY Times this morning (Thursday) regarding medicating young people with psychiatric drugs...."Proof is Scant on Psychiatric Drug Mix for Young." It is quite interesting. Hope you're all enjoying a peaceful Thanksgiving. Remember to stop and think about all your blessings. It's easy to get hung up on what's wrong with your children. Be thankful for what's right with them!! love, Tsohl
goody2shuz
11-23-2006, 10:09 PM
Hello, Ladies:angel: Just wanted to jump on board and send my love and best wishes to you and your families for a Happy Thanksgiving. We are having a great time away together as a family and full from a wonderful dinner together all seved family style...no work, no fuss, just us being together.;) Just what we needed.
We may get out early and do the Black Friday shopping......we will see who wants to get up early with hubby who naturally arises at 5am each morning. He will be our alarm clock.:D
Will check back again when time allows. Just wanted to tell you how thankful I am for each of you and hoping that your day was wonderful as well. I will catch up more later on.
(((((HUGS))))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
We may get out early and do the Black Friday shopping......we will see who wants to get up early with hubby who naturally arises at 5am each morning. He will be our alarm clock.:D
Will check back again when time allows. Just wanted to tell you how thankful I am for each of you and hoping that your day was wonderful as well. I will catch up more later on.
(((((HUGS))))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
11-24-2006, 10:33 PM
goody , how was your shopping..i did go to macys today..but wanted out of there as soon as possible..i did get some good deals tho..still enjoying some peace around here!
goody2shuz
11-25-2006, 09:47 PM
Hello, Ladies:wave: This getaway with the girls was just what the doctor ordered. I must say that at first Erin was quite irritable to begin with but has been doing quite well over the past few days.:D I don't know if it is the meds or the change in scenery but things seem to be pretty good so far. As usual we will know once we see it being fairly consistent.
I sure hope that everyone else is doing well. Erin asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I told her the truth....that I want her to feel better and to be feeling well about herself and life in general. She told me that there must be something I want and I told her I was serious, that I would want nothing more than her to be stabilized on her meds. I am sure that each of you are wishing the same.;)
We head back home tomorrow and will be dropping Kait back off at college. The time went by so quickly but it was so nice to be together.
Hoping to hear that everyone else enjoyed the holiday and that things are going better.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
PS ~ Jules...the shopping went okay and we all survived.:D
I sure hope that everyone else is doing well. Erin asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I told her the truth....that I want her to feel better and to be feeling well about herself and life in general. She told me that there must be something I want and I told her I was serious, that I would want nothing more than her to be stabilized on her meds. I am sure that each of you are wishing the same.;)
We head back home tomorrow and will be dropping Kait back off at college. The time went by so quickly but it was so nice to be together.
Hoping to hear that everyone else enjoyed the holiday and that things are going better.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
PS ~ Jules...the shopping went okay and we all survived.:D
jules3
11-27-2006, 11:39 PM
goody, how much seroquel is your daughter on? is it 200 mgs at night? my son says he cannot sleep with only 100mg seoquel...so he will ask the doc for 200mgs tomorrow. that sounds like alot..does body size have anything to do with it? i know your daughter is young. also, he know has a ravenous appetite..could it be from effexor or seroquel...he will not be happy if he starts putting on weight.
tsohl
11-27-2006, 11:53 PM
We haven't had any problems with effexor increasing appetite...for what that's worth!
tsohl
11-27-2006, 11:59 PM
Oh, meant to ask....did your son have a good trip and did he get back safely?
Hope everyone else had a good holiday weekend.
Hope everyone else had a good holiday weekend.
goody2shuz
11-28-2006, 12:27 AM
Hi Jules ~ My daughter is 15 and is now on 200mgs of Seroquel at night and 100mgs in the morning. It does increase the appetite as I have noticed her eating more than usual. The same thing happened with Risperdal and unfortunately most of the atypical antipyschotics do cause weight gain, however the Seroquel is noted to be the least of the culprits. My daughter put on weight with the Risperdal which seemed to come off once she was off of it and now seems to be putting on some with the Seroquel as well. I heard that eventually this levels off and comes off. I encourage my daughter to watch her sugar intake as well as her calories.
Of course everybody is different in terms of which meds will cause weight gain and which ones won't. I have heard from others that Seroquel is usually not a problem in terms of weight gain but there are some here that claim it puts on weight.
As far as the Seroquel and sleep....my daughter seems to sleep well since being on the Seroquel even at the lowest doses. She seemed to have more of a problem with the Risperdal than the Seroquel in terms of sleep.
I think that at 200mgs your son should have a better time sleeping. How is he feeling otherwise???
Hope everything else is going okay with everyone here. Tsohl....hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your family. Did your son spend the day with you???? I sure hope that things are going well. I must say that things have been going quite well for Erin....she seems to be doing the best I have seen on the meds....I am almost afraid to say it but this is the closest we have come to stability ever!!!:D It has been 5 days with no problems....she isn't irritable and I haven't seen this long a period of time in which she seems to be acting like a "normal" teenage girl (if there is such a thing;) ). And I couldn't be happier!! Of course I am afraid to say so since everytime I do it doesn't seem to last but I am hoping that one time it will!!! So here I am telling you that we are in a good place right now and are hoping to stay there!! We have alot to be thankful for, that's for sure.:)
Hoping that everyone else is having a good week as well.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Of course everybody is different in terms of which meds will cause weight gain and which ones won't. I have heard from others that Seroquel is usually not a problem in terms of weight gain but there are some here that claim it puts on weight.
As far as the Seroquel and sleep....my daughter seems to sleep well since being on the Seroquel even at the lowest doses. She seemed to have more of a problem with the Risperdal than the Seroquel in terms of sleep.
I think that at 200mgs your son should have a better time sleeping. How is he feeling otherwise???
Hope everything else is going okay with everyone here. Tsohl....hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your family. Did your son spend the day with you???? I sure hope that things are going well. I must say that things have been going quite well for Erin....she seems to be doing the best I have seen on the meds....I am almost afraid to say it but this is the closest we have come to stability ever!!!:D It has been 5 days with no problems....she isn't irritable and I haven't seen this long a period of time in which she seems to be acting like a "normal" teenage girl (if there is such a thing;) ). And I couldn't be happier!! Of course I am afraid to say so since everytime I do it doesn't seem to last but I am hoping that one time it will!!! So here I am telling you that we are in a good place right now and are hoping to stay there!! We have alot to be thankful for, that's for sure.:)
Hoping that everyone else is having a good week as well.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
11-28-2006, 08:20 AM
Im so happy to hear that erin is doing well, believe me i have a 17yr old girl and it is not easy...my son had a nice trip. the change of scenery did help him alot..last night he was extremely hyper and went out with friends..i just worry about drugs and alcohol because thats the way he seems to go when hes in a hyper mood. some times he sleeps for days and sometimes hes up for days..i just dont get it! It makes me crazy, my mom keeps telling me to back off a little..but he is only 20 (acts younger) and does live in our home.
anyway, he does have a pdoc appt. this morning hopefully he will be honest with him and tell him how hes feeling...thanks for asking.:dizzy:
anyway, he does have a pdoc appt. this morning hopefully he will be honest with him and tell him how hes feeling...thanks for asking.:dizzy:
tsohl
11-28-2006, 10:19 AM
I think you have every right to be involved in your son's health and welfare. Our son has told us several times that he would be out on the street, homeless or dead if it hadn't been for our help, and, at the time, he wouldn't have cared! But now that he's stable he really appreciates all we do for him and he appreciates his life.
I hope he is bluntly honest with his pdoc. Otherwise, it is so much harder!
It is hard for a 20-year old to come to the realization that he can't do what his friends do...drinking, partying, staying up til morning. It will probably take awhile for him to accept this. Be patient and try to accept that this is a LONG process....best, Tsohl
I hope he is bluntly honest with his pdoc. Otherwise, it is so much harder!
It is hard for a 20-year old to come to the realization that he can't do what his friends do...drinking, partying, staying up til morning. It will probably take awhile for him to accept this. Be patient and try to accept that this is a LONG process....best, Tsohl
tsohl
11-28-2006, 10:26 AM
Hello all--
We did have a nice Thanksgiving and, what was best of all was seeing our son stay for the whole day and not look like a caged lion!! After he left I commented to my husband that it was so great to see him calm and able to enjoy himself. I can recall other times (in the past) when he came out that he just couldn't sit still and just hang out while I got dinner together and on the table.
Glad to hear Erin is enjoying a couple days all strung together!! We'll keep our fingers crossed that you're approaching the right mix and dosage of meds.
How are Erika and Zac?? best, Tsohl
We did have a nice Thanksgiving and, what was best of all was seeing our son stay for the whole day and not look like a caged lion!! After he left I commented to my husband that it was so great to see him calm and able to enjoy himself. I can recall other times (in the past) when he came out that he just couldn't sit still and just hang out while I got dinner together and on the table.
Glad to hear Erin is enjoying a couple days all strung together!! We'll keep our fingers crossed that you're approaching the right mix and dosage of meds.
How are Erika and Zac?? best, Tsohl
jules3
11-28-2006, 11:07 AM
Ts, we are on his side...but, you are right he will not accept that he cant drink like his friends.. When i try to talk to him about bp..he tells me im crazy not him..so, he has a long way to go...I am not going with him to his doc appt. today. He told me i hog up all the time and do not give him a chance to talk..so i have to have to trust him to be honest with the doctor. I have no other choice!
jules3
11-28-2006, 08:14 PM
Well, he did go see his doc today..he did up his seroquel to 300mgs at bedtime. That seems like alot to me..But i guess i have to trust the doc..He will see him once a week for the next month....I will say it again..All we can do is 1 day at a time..right?
tsohl
11-28-2006, 10:32 PM
Well, the good news is that he'll be seen once a week and that your son is willing to go! Has your son been willing to read any books about BP or would he consider going to a support group that was for young people?
jules3
11-29-2006, 08:57 AM
I am reading a great book now about bipolar..a guide for family and patients... he will never go to a meeting because he is in denial..he told me and the doctor he is not bipolar. so, a meeting is out of the question...i might be able to get him to read this book. he is very curious about medications and how they work..and the book tells alot about them. he did take 300mgs seroquel last night and could not get up for school this morning..im sure he will be in his bed all day...
tsohl
11-29-2006, 10:16 AM
Good morning all,
Jules, do you know why your son is in denial? If you don't mind me asking, how long has he been having issues that led to him being diagnosed? Does he smoke pot in addition to the drinking? I wonder if his pdoc knows about this? Gee, I'm full of questions this morning, aren't it? I am just trying to understand better "where he's at" so I might be able to relate it to my son's experiences.
Hope, haven't heard from you in awhile. I hope that means things are all ok and the meds are helping with Zac's issues.
Wishing you all a good day. Nasty weather is setting in here, but we had four fabulous, sunny, warm days over the Thanksgiving weekend, so can't complain (unless you're a deer hunter, I guess!!). Tsohl
Jules, do you know why your son is in denial? If you don't mind me asking, how long has he been having issues that led to him being diagnosed? Does he smoke pot in addition to the drinking? I wonder if his pdoc knows about this? Gee, I'm full of questions this morning, aren't it? I am just trying to understand better "where he's at" so I might be able to relate it to my son's experiences.
Hope, haven't heard from you in awhile. I hope that means things are all ok and the meds are helping with Zac's issues.
Wishing you all a good day. Nasty weather is setting in here, but we had four fabulous, sunny, warm days over the Thanksgiving weekend, so can't complain (unless you're a deer hunter, I guess!!). Tsohl
langlee
11-29-2006, 11:09 AM
Hello All,
This is a quick note to let everyone know I am alive, but very sad. My sister was killed this past Friday in an accident. Zac is taking it very, very hard (as am I) because my Mom died unexpectedly this past March. It is grief upon grief and I am worried how this will affect him.
I'll write more later, but you are all in my thoughts and heart.
Love,
Hope
This is a quick note to let everyone know I am alive, but very sad. My sister was killed this past Friday in an accident. Zac is taking it very, very hard (as am I) because my Mom died unexpectedly this past March. It is grief upon grief and I am worried how this will affect him.
I'll write more later, but you are all in my thoughts and heart.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
11-29-2006, 11:54 AM
Oh, Hope. What tragic news. I had a feeling something was wrong when we didn't hear from you in awhile...but I never expected anything like this. Our prayers are with you and your family. I'm not sure what I can do from Cyberspace, but if there is anything, please let me know. Love, Tsohl.
jules3
11-29-2006, 04:08 PM
Hope, so sorry to hear about your loss...
ts, Hes been having issues for about a year..i would say hes had anger issues since about 13 yrs old. I know he doesnt smoke pot, but he does drink and he has been taking pills (benzos and opiates) the past couple of months..thats what made us start going to the pdoc with him..hes been seeing this pdoc since jan. and he hasnt been honest with him..until now. He has told us that he stopped the pills and only took them to make himself feel better (numbing effect)..we have been drug testing 1x a week and he has been negative for the past 3 weeks...I can deal with bipolar, but i will not tolerate street drugs at all. He did at first get a prescription for klonopin from his pdoc, thats 1 reason why i needed to go see him with my son..Because he was abusing them . then started buying them on the street..those and vicodins. So, now hes tested and the lab results go to his doc. He knows he gets depressed and angry and agitated easily..and his mood changes in minutes..He just hates the word BIPOLAR. He thinks it means hes crazy! Like i said he might be 20 yrs old, but hes not very mature.The medication seems to be helping him, but we shall see in the next few weeks.You never can tell with him..Hes either good or bad..hardly ever in between...
ts, Hes been having issues for about a year..i would say hes had anger issues since about 13 yrs old. I know he doesnt smoke pot, but he does drink and he has been taking pills (benzos and opiates) the past couple of months..thats what made us start going to the pdoc with him..hes been seeing this pdoc since jan. and he hasnt been honest with him..until now. He has told us that he stopped the pills and only took them to make himself feel better (numbing effect)..we have been drug testing 1x a week and he has been negative for the past 3 weeks...I can deal with bipolar, but i will not tolerate street drugs at all. He did at first get a prescription for klonopin from his pdoc, thats 1 reason why i needed to go see him with my son..Because he was abusing them . then started buying them on the street..those and vicodins. So, now hes tested and the lab results go to his doc. He knows he gets depressed and angry and agitated easily..and his mood changes in minutes..He just hates the word BIPOLAR. He thinks it means hes crazy! Like i said he might be 20 yrs old, but hes not very mature.The medication seems to be helping him, but we shall see in the next few weeks.You never can tell with him..Hes either good or bad..hardly ever in between...
langlee
11-29-2006, 06:12 PM
Hello All,
I have a little more time now so I'll give an update. Before I start, I want to tell Goody that I'm thrilled that Erin is doing better and that the Thanksgiving retreat went well and Jules, when I'm feeling a little stronger, I will give you some thoughts on your son. For now, I'm with you on your journey. And Tsohl, I can feel your compassion even in Cyberspace. Thank you.
Things here are not good. Zac had a severe reaction to my sister's death, self-injured so drastically that we thought we'd have to go to the hospital and is in a terrible state. We are not yet through with our period of mourning, but I left my sister's house today to come back to continue researching an inpatient facilty for Zac. He has agreed that he probably needs that, but we are very wary about where he should go, especially since we all had a negative feeling about the place he went for the weekend in September. I've got calls out to several places, one that specializes in bipolar, and we'll see. For now, we are on 24 hour watch with him to help him through this (he's sleeping on the floor of our room)
Quite honestly, the self-injury is scaring me more now than the substance or alcohol abuse. I don't believe he has abused drugs or alcohol lately, but he has begun aggressively cutting again. My husband and I are desolate that 8 weeks of the IOP does not seem to have worked. We met with the therapist there and she is equally frustrated. She said Zac does great when he's there, but he's not applying what he learned. We are so disappointed because we had high hopes.
I'll keep you posted to our progress. Please keep us in our prayers. With Zac's latest crisis, there is no time to grieve. Everyone has been telling my sister and me that we should go for grief counselling and I feel like I can't even think about that right now. As much as I am mourning my sister and my mother, I am mourning my son's pain more right now.
If anyone has any thoughts, I'd most appreciate it.
Thanks,
Hope
I have a little more time now so I'll give an update. Before I start, I want to tell Goody that I'm thrilled that Erin is doing better and that the Thanksgiving retreat went well and Jules, when I'm feeling a little stronger, I will give you some thoughts on your son. For now, I'm with you on your journey. And Tsohl, I can feel your compassion even in Cyberspace. Thank you.
Things here are not good. Zac had a severe reaction to my sister's death, self-injured so drastically that we thought we'd have to go to the hospital and is in a terrible state. We are not yet through with our period of mourning, but I left my sister's house today to come back to continue researching an inpatient facilty for Zac. He has agreed that he probably needs that, but we are very wary about where he should go, especially since we all had a negative feeling about the place he went for the weekend in September. I've got calls out to several places, one that specializes in bipolar, and we'll see. For now, we are on 24 hour watch with him to help him through this (he's sleeping on the floor of our room)
Quite honestly, the self-injury is scaring me more now than the substance or alcohol abuse. I don't believe he has abused drugs or alcohol lately, but he has begun aggressively cutting again. My husband and I are desolate that 8 weeks of the IOP does not seem to have worked. We met with the therapist there and she is equally frustrated. She said Zac does great when he's there, but he's not applying what he learned. We are so disappointed because we had high hopes.
I'll keep you posted to our progress. Please keep us in our prayers. With Zac's latest crisis, there is no time to grieve. Everyone has been telling my sister and me that we should go for grief counselling and I feel like I can't even think about that right now. As much as I am mourning my sister and my mother, I am mourning my son's pain more right now.
If anyone has any thoughts, I'd most appreciate it.
Thanks,
Hope
goody2shuz
11-29-2006, 06:38 PM
Hope....I had a post a while ago that got lost in cyberspace but if you could just close your eyes for a moment and feel the hands that are reaching out to you and pulling you in for a big hug to give you comfort and strngth my wish is that you will feel it all the way from NY to NJ.:angel: I cannot even imagine what it must feel like to be experiencing so many losses at one time....and we all know that our kids feel that 100 times more. I know that such losses also trigger the worst in stable kids so I would imagine that things will be bad before they get better for Zac. You are doing exactly what you must do....the 24 hour watch is what I would do...I have been there and done that until Erin was hospitalized. We moved her mattress in our room as well she didn't like it one bit and fought us but we did it to keep her safe. You need to get him hospitalized....I know that you are afraid that won't be good to do and that you don't want Zac feeling as if he is being punished or that you are abandoning him but he is in crisis right now and he needs the 24 hour monitoring and treatment. I know that you know that and Zac does too.
Oh Hope....my heart aches for you, I know that with each hospitalization I felt so helpless and scared that Erin would be worse off but eventually she got the help that she needed. Erin cut too, Hope, and she hasn't self injured for over six months now.:blob_fire She tells me that it is the meds....the Risperdal really helped her and when she had to go off of it she told that the urges to self injure increased....so I know that the meds helped. She is now on the Seroquel and she says it has helped as good as the Risperdal so you may want to keep that in mind.
Zac needs to have his meds adjusted, Hope, and he needs aggressive treatment right now. Do not be afraid....we are here for you if you need advice or support in anyway. I will keep an extra eye out for you so please know that you are not alone.
Take care of yourself too, Hope, call in some family/friends you can trust to allow you time to sleep/rest and take a warm bath/shower. Again....I am reaching my hand out to you and am right there beside you to help you through. You are a great mom and Zac is going to be okay...he will get through this because you are strong and love him. He is so lucky to have you. Keep us posted as much as you can and know that every thought and prayer I can send your way is there.
(((HUGS))) and prayers ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Oh Hope....my heart aches for you, I know that with each hospitalization I felt so helpless and scared that Erin would be worse off but eventually she got the help that she needed. Erin cut too, Hope, and she hasn't self injured for over six months now.:blob_fire She tells me that it is the meds....the Risperdal really helped her and when she had to go off of it she told that the urges to self injure increased....so I know that the meds helped. She is now on the Seroquel and she says it has helped as good as the Risperdal so you may want to keep that in mind.
Zac needs to have his meds adjusted, Hope, and he needs aggressive treatment right now. Do not be afraid....we are here for you if you need advice or support in anyway. I will keep an extra eye out for you so please know that you are not alone.
Take care of yourself too, Hope, call in some family/friends you can trust to allow you time to sleep/rest and take a warm bath/shower. Again....I am reaching my hand out to you and am right there beside you to help you through. You are a great mom and Zac is going to be okay...he will get through this because you are strong and love him. He is so lucky to have you. Keep us posted as much as you can and know that every thought and prayer I can send your way is there.
(((HUGS))) and prayers ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
11-29-2006, 06:58 PM
Goody,
Do you know of any residential programs in your area? I know of a couple in Michigan and Florida, but that's not any help. There must be some good ones near you. Maybe you could look into it for Hope? Have you discussed it with Erin's pdoc perhaps? She needs help and I don't think she had found anything yet. more later...Tsohl
Do you know of any residential programs in your area? I know of a couple in Michigan and Florida, but that's not any help. There must be some good ones near you. Maybe you could look into it for Hope? Have you discussed it with Erin's pdoc perhaps? She needs help and I don't think she had found anything yet. more later...Tsohl
tsohl
11-29-2006, 07:13 PM
Hope, Are you ok? You sound so calm and rational. Have Zac's doctors been any help in suggesting residential treatment programs? You may have to admit him to a private psych hospital or psych dept. of a local hospital until you can find a program that suits your needs. It sounds like he needs to be heavily medicated for a few days to break this cycle. I wish there were something I could do. I feel so helpless. love, Tsohl
jules3
11-29-2006, 07:43 PM
Hope, i know im new to this site,but i feel like i know you..my heart breaks for you..because i know how much we love our sons. how old is zac? i do know of a private psychiatric hospital here in n.y...im assuming we are not allowed to names places on this forum..am i right? a friend of mines daughter did well there..she is bipolar and was cutting too.
tsohl
11-29-2006, 08:08 PM
Hi Jules,
I'm pretty sure Zac is 16. And I just reread the posting rules and I think it is ok to mention the name of a program. It says you can mention the name of a doctor, services, etc and can post an opinion about them, so i'd think the name of a program/hospital would be ok as long as you aren't advertising a specific product that you benefit from....regards, Tsohl
I'm pretty sure Zac is 16. And I just reread the posting rules and I think it is ok to mention the name of a program. It says you can mention the name of a doctor, services, etc and can post an opinion about them, so i'd think the name of a program/hospital would be ok as long as you aren't advertising a specific product that you benefit from....regards, Tsohl
goody2shuz
11-29-2006, 08:20 PM
Hi, Tsohl thanks for the heads up....they have two residential programs that were recommended to us...I thought that Hope was talking about hospitalization rather than a residential treatment center. I think at this point Zac may require that and stabilization. I have heard wonderful things about Long Island Jewish Medical Center....they have a Child/Adolescent Psych unit and they are very familiar with Adolescent Bipolar there. They have facilities at North Shore University Center as well as Zucker Hillside hospital. As far as residential centers Harmony Heights in Oyster Bay, NY and Madonna Heights which I believe is in Dix Hills, NY. Unfortunately it looks like these are geared towards girls but perhaps calling them they will recommend facitilities for boys.
Hope.....I recall hearing great success stories at a place in PA called Kidspeace in Orefield, PA. Several people from the hospital where Erin was the entire summer mentioned that hospital and the success of kids that have gone there.....they have a residential treatment facility as well. It handles bipolar as well as drug addictions so I think that may be a place to check out for Zac. Let's put it this way....if I were looking for a place for Erin that is where I would probably go. Let me know what you think of all that I have mentioned and if I could help you out in any other way please don't hesitate to ask.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
PS ~ In my search I found that Kidspeace has a dual diagnosis residential center for adolescents in Salorsburg, PA. It is on the Blue Ridge Campus of the program. I hope this helps....somehow I got a good feeling about this one, Hope. Let me know what you think.
Hope.....I recall hearing great success stories at a place in PA called Kidspeace in Orefield, PA. Several people from the hospital where Erin was the entire summer mentioned that hospital and the success of kids that have gone there.....they have a residential treatment facility as well. It handles bipolar as well as drug addictions so I think that may be a place to check out for Zac. Let's put it this way....if I were looking for a place for Erin that is where I would probably go. Let me know what you think of all that I have mentioned and if I could help you out in any other way please don't hesitate to ask.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
PS ~ In my search I found that Kidspeace has a dual diagnosis residential center for adolescents in Salorsburg, PA. It is on the Blue Ridge Campus of the program. I hope this helps....somehow I got a good feeling about this one, Hope. Let me know what you think.
jules3
11-29-2006, 08:36 PM
I did take my son to zucker hillside to be evalueated, and was not too impressed...They would have admitted him, but he said no..so that was the end of that..I was talking about South Oaks hospital and treatment center..It is on long island. I wish her well in whatever she decides...
tsohl
11-29-2006, 08:39 PM
Thanks Goody. I thought you'd be on top of this. I'm too far away to be of much help! I'm sure Hope doesn't want to have to commute to Wisconsin!!
By the way, I hope Erin is still doing well.... Tsohl
By the way, I hope Erin is still doing well.... Tsohl
goody2shuz
11-29-2006, 09:39 PM
Yes, Jules...I am familiar with South Oaks....Erin was at Sagamore
Childrens Psychiatric Center and did really well in their program....that is where she got the most help and was properly diagnosed and treated. I heard that the doctors at South Oaks are great but that the ones at Schneiders Children's Hospital (Long Island Jewish) are even better. The place in PA sounds much more intense than we get here on Long Island....and like I said I heard wonderful things about it. So I hope that some of this will help Hope find the right treatment for Zac.
Tsohl....yes Erin is doing better. The only thing is that she is having social issues which seems to be an ongoing problem and common with Bipolar teens. She has always had a problem with friends in the sense of distorting others actions....she seems to feel betrayed by friends who have other friendships and who do other things without her. If she doesn't have plans at any given moment or her friends do something without her with another friend she takes that as if they are no longer her friends. This happened with her last best friend who made other friends and she took it as if they were no longer best friends because her friend had other friendships. Now we see the same thing happening with her guy best friend....apparently Erin says that he spread the word last year that she had sex with a boy. Erin has not been talking to this guy best friend....he didn't walk with her at spooky walk like he promised and buddied up with another girl who is also her friend....he didn't invite her over with other friends to watch TV one night and on and on.
The latest is that this guy best friend had disclosed to Erin that he is Bisexual....he told her last year and finally had gotten the courage to tell his mom. He had promised Erin that she would be there when he did decide to tell his mom...well he told her in the car while two other friends were with him and Erin was extremely upset to hear this. I explained that he probably got the courage and saw the moment and did it without thinking. I know the drama:dizzy: Anyway....turns out that her best guy friend's mom (who I am quite close to and knows what Erin has been through) called today. We were at a sports award ceremony last night and Erin and her son were not speaking to one another and wouldn't even sit with us together. His mom didn't even know that they weren't getting along and was surprised.....they are usually joined at the hip and are like brother and sister to one another. Anyway...she tells me that she is concerned about something knowing that Erin had just changed meds that her son shared with her. Apparently Erin has been telling others that her son had sex with another boy at school and that somehow she had also written the same info on a piece of paper and posted it where others would see it. She went on to say that her son said that Erin also told others that her son molested his younger brother. I was shocked by all of this...Erin had said last night that she will never be friends with this guy best friend again...that he told the whole school that she slept with another boy and that he is disgusting because he has sex with boys. I pointed out to her that this boy had been there through the best and worst times of her life...that when she was in the hospital he was the only one that came to visit and brought her flowers and wrote her letters while her other friends didn't. And that to me he had proven to be a real friend and that should count for something. Today when we confronted her with the info she admitted to telling the biggest gossiper girl about her guy best friend being bisexual and having sex with another boy at school....I asked her why she would do such a thing...she said that her guy friend was already telling everybody that he is bisexual and that they already know and also that she wanted him to see how hurtful it was for a friend to share something personal with others. I told Erin how disappointed that she would do something so hurtful and that hurting somebody the same way you were hurt by them will not solve problems but create more. She denied writing a note but said the principal had asked her about it but that she didn't write it. I told her that even though she didn't whoever did had done so after she had shared the info with them and that is was still a result of something she did wrong. Erin started crying and hubby and I told her that we saw the same thing happening with her guy best friend as happened with her and her last best friend. That she was not allowing them the freedom to have other friends and accept the fact that friends are entitled to have other friends and other plans and that she was distorting things in her mind believing something that wasn't exactly true....like if a friend makes plans with somebody else that doesn't include her that they are no longer her friend. Erin started crying....I could see that she really cares about her guy friend but has been hurt by him (I do believe that he told others about her having sex with the guy last year and that she was deeply hurt by that and I acknowledged how hurtful that would be especially when your best friend did so) I went on to say that everybody makes mistakes and these days sometimes fitting in makes you do stupid things and that while her guy friend was wrong she has been too. I hugged her and told her that there was no excuse for either her or her guy friend to have said the things they did about each other to others and that she could do one of two things. She could go on hurting her friend and saying she doesn't really care OR she could make ammends and talk things out and try to make it better. She continued to cry....I told her that real friends are hard to come by and that I could see both her and her guy friend were both hurting and both had done things wrong and that if they wanted to they could fix it. OR they could allow their foolish pride to allow them to continue to say or do hurtful things and lose a friendship that might have been salvaged.
I don't know what to think about all of this....I tell you, it is a mean cruel world out there. I am shocked that Erin could have done something so hurtful....surprisingly her guy friend's mom feels much the way I do...that the two of them have said and done bad things about one another and that we should encourage them to work things out and apologize for what they had done to one another. What do you make of all of this??? Is this all part of the Bipolar or normal teenage drama. I am worried about Erin in this regard....it is as if when she feels she is losing a friend she thinks that hurting them will make it better.
The drama is way too much for this mom....can't wait to hear your reply Tsohl:D
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Childrens Psychiatric Center and did really well in their program....that is where she got the most help and was properly diagnosed and treated. I heard that the doctors at South Oaks are great but that the ones at Schneiders Children's Hospital (Long Island Jewish) are even better. The place in PA sounds much more intense than we get here on Long Island....and like I said I heard wonderful things about it. So I hope that some of this will help Hope find the right treatment for Zac.
Tsohl....yes Erin is doing better. The only thing is that she is having social issues which seems to be an ongoing problem and common with Bipolar teens. She has always had a problem with friends in the sense of distorting others actions....she seems to feel betrayed by friends who have other friendships and who do other things without her. If she doesn't have plans at any given moment or her friends do something without her with another friend she takes that as if they are no longer her friends. This happened with her last best friend who made other friends and she took it as if they were no longer best friends because her friend had other friendships. Now we see the same thing happening with her guy best friend....apparently Erin says that he spread the word last year that she had sex with a boy. Erin has not been talking to this guy best friend....he didn't walk with her at spooky walk like he promised and buddied up with another girl who is also her friend....he didn't invite her over with other friends to watch TV one night and on and on.
The latest is that this guy best friend had disclosed to Erin that he is Bisexual....he told her last year and finally had gotten the courage to tell his mom. He had promised Erin that she would be there when he did decide to tell his mom...well he told her in the car while two other friends were with him and Erin was extremely upset to hear this. I explained that he probably got the courage and saw the moment and did it without thinking. I know the drama:dizzy: Anyway....turns out that her best guy friend's mom (who I am quite close to and knows what Erin has been through) called today. We were at a sports award ceremony last night and Erin and her son were not speaking to one another and wouldn't even sit with us together. His mom didn't even know that they weren't getting along and was surprised.....they are usually joined at the hip and are like brother and sister to one another. Anyway...she tells me that she is concerned about something knowing that Erin had just changed meds that her son shared with her. Apparently Erin has been telling others that her son had sex with another boy at school and that somehow she had also written the same info on a piece of paper and posted it where others would see it. She went on to say that her son said that Erin also told others that her son molested his younger brother. I was shocked by all of this...Erin had said last night that she will never be friends with this guy best friend again...that he told the whole school that she slept with another boy and that he is disgusting because he has sex with boys. I pointed out to her that this boy had been there through the best and worst times of her life...that when she was in the hospital he was the only one that came to visit and brought her flowers and wrote her letters while her other friends didn't. And that to me he had proven to be a real friend and that should count for something. Today when we confronted her with the info she admitted to telling the biggest gossiper girl about her guy best friend being bisexual and having sex with another boy at school....I asked her why she would do such a thing...she said that her guy friend was already telling everybody that he is bisexual and that they already know and also that she wanted him to see how hurtful it was for a friend to share something personal with others. I told Erin how disappointed that she would do something so hurtful and that hurting somebody the same way you were hurt by them will not solve problems but create more. She denied writing a note but said the principal had asked her about it but that she didn't write it. I told her that even though she didn't whoever did had done so after she had shared the info with them and that is was still a result of something she did wrong. Erin started crying and hubby and I told her that we saw the same thing happening with her guy best friend as happened with her and her last best friend. That she was not allowing them the freedom to have other friends and accept the fact that friends are entitled to have other friends and other plans and that she was distorting things in her mind believing something that wasn't exactly true....like if a friend makes plans with somebody else that doesn't include her that they are no longer her friend. Erin started crying....I could see that she really cares about her guy friend but has been hurt by him (I do believe that he told others about her having sex with the guy last year and that she was deeply hurt by that and I acknowledged how hurtful that would be especially when your best friend did so) I went on to say that everybody makes mistakes and these days sometimes fitting in makes you do stupid things and that while her guy friend was wrong she has been too. I hugged her and told her that there was no excuse for either her or her guy friend to have said the things they did about each other to others and that she could do one of two things. She could go on hurting her friend and saying she doesn't really care OR she could make ammends and talk things out and try to make it better. She continued to cry....I told her that real friends are hard to come by and that I could see both her and her guy friend were both hurting and both had done things wrong and that if they wanted to they could fix it. OR they could allow their foolish pride to allow them to continue to say or do hurtful things and lose a friendship that might have been salvaged.
I don't know what to think about all of this....I tell you, it is a mean cruel world out there. I am shocked that Erin could have done something so hurtful....surprisingly her guy friend's mom feels much the way I do...that the two of them have said and done bad things about one another and that we should encourage them to work things out and apologize for what they had done to one another. What do you make of all of this??? Is this all part of the Bipolar or normal teenage drama. I am worried about Erin in this regard....it is as if when she feels she is losing a friend she thinks that hurting them will make it better.
The drama is way too much for this mom....can't wait to hear your reply Tsohl:D
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
11-29-2006, 10:04 PM
Goody, i have an 18 yr.old daughter and have seen alot of drama..Its very hard to be a teen nowadays..imagine being a bipolar teen?
tsohl
11-30-2006, 12:20 AM
Hey Goody, I'll have to think about this a bit. One observation I have is that, to make a rash generalization, many bipolars seem to be self-absorbed and self-centered. Also distortion is a common trait. So I think in Erin's case, you probably have a bit of both the usual teen-age girl thing going on, as well as the BP thing. Girls her age for the most part haven't found their individuality and the group is important...and the need to belong. She looks at her circle of friends as concentric circles that radiate out from her, revolve around her, and she probably can't figure out how someone could make plans that don't include her. This sounds like a good issue for the therapist to work on with Erin when you get beyond the basics of stability, etc.
It sounds like you've given Erin all the logical, mature advice on her problems with the best guy-friend...and if he's getting from his mom similar advice, hopefully they will work it out. But that takes a certain level of maturity to admit to someone you've made a mistake and would like another chance at friendship. I guess I wouldn't harp on it with Erin and keep asking her about it. Sounds like you've made your point, given her plenty to think about, and now it's kind of up to Erin. It is so easy for girls this age to get their feelings hurt, whether or not they are bipolar!
I was really lucky to miss all this drama with my daughter, who just turned 22 a couple weeks ago. I remember stories she'd bring home though of unbelievable cruelty that the "popular" girls heaped on one another. You just had to wonder "what were they thinking??" Unfortunately it just seems to come with the age these days...this, too, you will live through and Erin will pass through.
Speaking of girls, how's Kait? Now that you've spent a number of days together without the distraction of friends, etc. how did you find her? Are you still worried that she might be bipolar?
Poor Hope, I wish there was something we could do for her. I remember so well that horrid feeling, like being kicked in the stomach where you're just not sure you're going to survive. Well, all for now.....best, Tsohl
It sounds like you've given Erin all the logical, mature advice on her problems with the best guy-friend...and if he's getting from his mom similar advice, hopefully they will work it out. But that takes a certain level of maturity to admit to someone you've made a mistake and would like another chance at friendship. I guess I wouldn't harp on it with Erin and keep asking her about it. Sounds like you've made your point, given her plenty to think about, and now it's kind of up to Erin. It is so easy for girls this age to get their feelings hurt, whether or not they are bipolar!
I was really lucky to miss all this drama with my daughter, who just turned 22 a couple weeks ago. I remember stories she'd bring home though of unbelievable cruelty that the "popular" girls heaped on one another. You just had to wonder "what were they thinking??" Unfortunately it just seems to come with the age these days...this, too, you will live through and Erin will pass through.
Speaking of girls, how's Kait? Now that you've spent a number of days together without the distraction of friends, etc. how did you find her? Are you still worried that she might be bipolar?
Poor Hope, I wish there was something we could do for her. I remember so well that horrid feeling, like being kicked in the stomach where you're just not sure you're going to survive. Well, all for now.....best, Tsohl
goody2shuz
11-30-2006, 01:45 AM
Thanks Jules and Tsohl for your input.....yes I am tending to think that this is mostly part of the Bipolar and Erin having a difficult time interpreting things and processing them in a magnified way. I know that it is difficult enough being a teen these days and even tougher when one is also Bipolar. The good thing is I think I found a good therapist for Erin. She comes highly recommended from her best guy friend's mom (how ironic;) ) and she spoke with me by phone today and I have a feeling that she will be a good match for Erin. The one who has been following her from the state feels as we do that Erin is ready and in need of individual therapy which she cannot provide. I think that Erin will benefit from somebody who can teach her coping skills and ways of dealing with all the issues she encounters at school and at home. The therapist said that she could take Erin on sometime in January and I think that it will be good for us to start the New Year off with Erin receiving the therapy that she so needs. She is open to it and I feel that she will get alot out of it now that the meds have gotten her to the point of realizing that she has Bipolar and that she needs to learn how to manage some of the challenges that come with it.
Now we just have to find a good pdoc....that is what we are going to need the most. I am hoping that somebody will direct us to one who manages the meds well. I really have grown to like the pdoc we have now....we have a good understanding of one another and I hate to have to find that again. But she also feels that Erin would benefit from her individual pdoc & tdoc rather than being followed by the state where there are so many cases and not enough services. The pdoc has accommodated us nicely despite her overwhelming patient load.
Thanks for asking about Kait. She seems to be okay but I notice that she gets quite moody and irritable and has a night time schedule. She was up most of the nights and was sleeping most of the day. She stayed up until 2or 3 in the morning and would sleep until noon or 1pm each day. She didn't do as well as she would have liked to the first trimester....he ended up failing one of her courses which was a pass/fail course which will require her to retake the test in order to get credit for it (I guess this is better than having to repeat the entire course) She had to drop her Honor's Math course which she had a B in but was afraid of not doing well on the final....she will have to repeat that and got a passing withdrawal grade which will allow her to repeat it without it looking bad on her transcript. She ended up with a 2.61 GPA which she was somewhat shocked with....she was quite upset since she thought she had done better. She got B+'s in her honors English course and from what others have shared her grade wasn't too bad for a first trimester. I expect her to do better....she will need a 2.65 GPA in order to renew her academic scholarship and remain in honors status.....if she gets a 3.4 GPA her diplom will reflect her honors program recognition. Kait doesn't expect to be able to do this...she told us that college is so much harder than what she has done up to now. So she is now into her 2nd trimester and hopefully ready to take things more seriously. As far as her being Bipolar I do worry about her going out most weekends to clubs and her overall night schedule. The good thing is she scheduled her classes later this trimester which should work out better for her. Hopefully that will make it easier to pay attention in her classes since all of her classes were 7am last trimester and Kait is definitely not a morning person...since Kindergarten her teachers told us it took her an hour or two to wake up and get into her studies.
So I continue to observe Kait......for now I am happy that she is loving college and making friends. Her friends do seem very nice although her Bipolar roommate isn't very compliant with her meds.:nono: Kait mentioned how she can tell when her roommate hasn't had her meds because she gets really nasty, agitated and upset. So I don't think it is bad thing for her to see....if anything it will give her a better understanding of what Erin is going through.
Well I guess it is time to get myself some sleep. Thanks again for the insight, Tsohl. I am thinking that what Erin is going through is a combo of normal teen drama mixed in with her Bipolar. It upset me that she could be so cruel....I have no intentions of bringing it up anymore. It is up to Erin what to do about the friendship...the therapist did tell me to encourage Erin to apologize but I think that she should come to that decision on her own. I already pretty much gave her my advice. I am sure that tomorrow there will be a new dose of drama. We will see.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Now we just have to find a good pdoc....that is what we are going to need the most. I am hoping that somebody will direct us to one who manages the meds well. I really have grown to like the pdoc we have now....we have a good understanding of one another and I hate to have to find that again. But she also feels that Erin would benefit from her individual pdoc & tdoc rather than being followed by the state where there are so many cases and not enough services. The pdoc has accommodated us nicely despite her overwhelming patient load.
Thanks for asking about Kait. She seems to be okay but I notice that she gets quite moody and irritable and has a night time schedule. She was up most of the nights and was sleeping most of the day. She stayed up until 2or 3 in the morning and would sleep until noon or 1pm each day. She didn't do as well as she would have liked to the first trimester....he ended up failing one of her courses which was a pass/fail course which will require her to retake the test in order to get credit for it (I guess this is better than having to repeat the entire course) She had to drop her Honor's Math course which she had a B in but was afraid of not doing well on the final....she will have to repeat that and got a passing withdrawal grade which will allow her to repeat it without it looking bad on her transcript. She ended up with a 2.61 GPA which she was somewhat shocked with....she was quite upset since she thought she had done better. She got B+'s in her honors English course and from what others have shared her grade wasn't too bad for a first trimester. I expect her to do better....she will need a 2.65 GPA in order to renew her academic scholarship and remain in honors status.....if she gets a 3.4 GPA her diplom will reflect her honors program recognition. Kait doesn't expect to be able to do this...she told us that college is so much harder than what she has done up to now. So she is now into her 2nd trimester and hopefully ready to take things more seriously. As far as her being Bipolar I do worry about her going out most weekends to clubs and her overall night schedule. The good thing is she scheduled her classes later this trimester which should work out better for her. Hopefully that will make it easier to pay attention in her classes since all of her classes were 7am last trimester and Kait is definitely not a morning person...since Kindergarten her teachers told us it took her an hour or two to wake up and get into her studies.
So I continue to observe Kait......for now I am happy that she is loving college and making friends. Her friends do seem very nice although her Bipolar roommate isn't very compliant with her meds.:nono: Kait mentioned how she can tell when her roommate hasn't had her meds because she gets really nasty, agitated and upset. So I don't think it is bad thing for her to see....if anything it will give her a better understanding of what Erin is going through.
Well I guess it is time to get myself some sleep. Thanks again for the insight, Tsohl. I am thinking that what Erin is going through is a combo of normal teen drama mixed in with her Bipolar. It upset me that she could be so cruel....I have no intentions of bringing it up anymore. It is up to Erin what to do about the friendship...the therapist did tell me to encourage Erin to apologize but I think that she should come to that decision on her own. I already pretty much gave her my advice. I am sure that tomorrow there will be a new dose of drama. We will see.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
12-01-2006, 07:29 PM
Hello all,
We had a snow day -- 12" here and 16" to the south towards Chicago...don't know if it's headed your way. How is everyone?
Hope, when you have a chance, let us know how you are. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we are all praying for you and your family. love, Tsohl
We had a snow day -- 12" here and 16" to the south towards Chicago...don't know if it's headed your way. How is everyone?
Hope, when you have a chance, let us know how you are. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we are all praying for you and your family. love, Tsohl
langlee
12-04-2006, 05:25 PM
Hi All,
Thanks so much for worrying about me. I appreciate it.
Things here went from bad to worse. On Thursday Zac was agitated and wanted to leave the house. We couldn't believe he would even think about it since the day before he had been so morose. He was also starting to have unusual behaviors such as trying to put a sheet out of his bedroom window to escape. Finally, after much discussion with him and realizing he was in an awful place, we told him we thought we should go to the ER. He, of course, didn't want to go and we ended up having the police come with an ambulance. Talk about nightmares!
We then proceeded to have 12 hours of verbal abuse as we waited in the ER. I can't even tell you what that was like. Zac is not, by personality, an agressive or abusive kid and to deal with all of that, on top of my sister's death, was unbearable. But we find strength when we need it and I just let it go in one ear and out the other. I remember Pippin's account of taking Erika to inpatient and all of the abuse she took and it helped get me through it. (BTW, where is Pippin? I hope everything is OK with Erika)
He is now in an inpatient hopsital in NJ. I was doing research to find the best place for him and I appreciate the recommendations you all have made. Perhaps it is overly optimistic of me, but I am trying to prevent multiple hospitalizations and losing so much time, money, and energy. This is such an exhausting journey and I am so frustrated. Fortunatley, I think the hospital he is at is a good one and he is getting the crisis care he needs.
Everyone is telling me I should go for grief counselling, but the truth is, I am grieving more for my alive son right now than my dead sister and mother. Sometimes it hits me in waves and I realize all that I have lost this year, but I don't have the time to indulge my grief. I need to stay focused on Zac.
The biggest challenge I face is finding the right help for him. (I know that's true for all of us) He really has a triple diagnosis right now: bipolar, substance abuse, and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. My sense is to start with the bipolar because until he's stablized, I don't think he can really work on the others. To compound matters, he doesn't really see the substance abuse as a current problem. From his perspective, he had a serious problem when he was using everyday. He then had 120 days sober and he considers the current problem relapses. (once every once in awhile) He doesn't fully understand that ANY illegal substance can throw off all of his bipolar medication and cause psychotic episodes. A therapist at the IOP (not his main one) told him that he is not an addict, but uses when he is manic. He has now decided that he's manic all of the time and that's why he's drawn to the drugs. It's a mess and I'm furious that this therapist told Zac that because it gives Zac an out.
I'll keep you all posted and, again, I appreciate your concern and your recommendations. I'll check them all out and let you know what I find.
Love Always,
Hope
Thanks so much for worrying about me. I appreciate it.
Things here went from bad to worse. On Thursday Zac was agitated and wanted to leave the house. We couldn't believe he would even think about it since the day before he had been so morose. He was also starting to have unusual behaviors such as trying to put a sheet out of his bedroom window to escape. Finally, after much discussion with him and realizing he was in an awful place, we told him we thought we should go to the ER. He, of course, didn't want to go and we ended up having the police come with an ambulance. Talk about nightmares!
We then proceeded to have 12 hours of verbal abuse as we waited in the ER. I can't even tell you what that was like. Zac is not, by personality, an agressive or abusive kid and to deal with all of that, on top of my sister's death, was unbearable. But we find strength when we need it and I just let it go in one ear and out the other. I remember Pippin's account of taking Erika to inpatient and all of the abuse she took and it helped get me through it. (BTW, where is Pippin? I hope everything is OK with Erika)
He is now in an inpatient hopsital in NJ. I was doing research to find the best place for him and I appreciate the recommendations you all have made. Perhaps it is overly optimistic of me, but I am trying to prevent multiple hospitalizations and losing so much time, money, and energy. This is such an exhausting journey and I am so frustrated. Fortunatley, I think the hospital he is at is a good one and he is getting the crisis care he needs.
Everyone is telling me I should go for grief counselling, but the truth is, I am grieving more for my alive son right now than my dead sister and mother. Sometimes it hits me in waves and I realize all that I have lost this year, but I don't have the time to indulge my grief. I need to stay focused on Zac.
The biggest challenge I face is finding the right help for him. (I know that's true for all of us) He really has a triple diagnosis right now: bipolar, substance abuse, and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. My sense is to start with the bipolar because until he's stablized, I don't think he can really work on the others. To compound matters, he doesn't really see the substance abuse as a current problem. From his perspective, he had a serious problem when he was using everyday. He then had 120 days sober and he considers the current problem relapses. (once every once in awhile) He doesn't fully understand that ANY illegal substance can throw off all of his bipolar medication and cause psychotic episodes. A therapist at the IOP (not his main one) told him that he is not an addict, but uses when he is manic. He has now decided that he's manic all of the time and that's why he's drawn to the drugs. It's a mess and I'm furious that this therapist told Zac that because it gives Zac an out.
I'll keep you all posted and, again, I appreciate your concern and your recommendations. I'll check them all out and let you know what I find.
Love Always,
Hope
langlee
12-04-2006, 05:34 PM
A few other comments:
They took Zac off of the Trileptal and the sleep meds. He is now on Lamictal, Seroquel and Abilify and he claims that the Abilify is giving him nightmares.
I am disappointed with my three experiences in the ER. I've brought him because he is so agitated and out of control and they leave him in a room for hours and hours with absolutely no medication. It seems to me that there should be a standard protocol for agitation and he would have been far better off if he could sleep.
Well, just another piece of this disturbing and upsetting process.
UGH!
Hope
They took Zac off of the Trileptal and the sleep meds. He is now on Lamictal, Seroquel and Abilify and he claims that the Abilify is giving him nightmares.
I am disappointed with my three experiences in the ER. I've brought him because he is so agitated and out of control and they leave him in a room for hours and hours with absolutely no medication. It seems to me that there should be a standard protocol for agitation and he would have been far better off if he could sleep.
Well, just another piece of this disturbing and upsetting process.
UGH!
Hope
langlee
12-04-2006, 05:36 PM
A few other comments:
They took Zac off of the Trileptal and the sleep meds. He is now on Lamictal, Seroquel and Abilify and he claims that the Abilify is giving him nightmares.
I am disappointed with my three experiences in the ER. I've brought him because he is so agitated and out of control and they leave him in a room for hours and hours with absolutely no medication. It seems to me that there should be a standard protocol for agitation and he would have been far better off if he could sleep.
Well, just another piece of this disturbing and upsetting process.
UGH!
Hope
They took Zac off of the Trileptal and the sleep meds. He is now on Lamictal, Seroquel and Abilify and he claims that the Abilify is giving him nightmares.
I am disappointed with my three experiences in the ER. I've brought him because he is so agitated and out of control and they leave him in a room for hours and hours with absolutely no medication. It seems to me that there should be a standard protocol for agitation and he would have been far better off if he could sleep.
Well, just another piece of this disturbing and upsetting process.
UGH!
Hope
jules3
12-04-2006, 05:48 PM
Hope, im praying for you and zac..my son was using street drugs when he was manic too...its like you dont know where to begin..but,you are right to try to get the bipolar under control then work on the other issues...i felt like it was a no win situation there for a while. hes doing ok with the seroquel and effexor..he is very agitated and wants klonopin or some kinda benzo,but because he's abused them he cannot take them again..somebody told me they are for the very sick or the very well patient..and that makes sense. I know deep inside if he had an rx. for them he would abuse again just to numb himself...its so sad. I had a bad experience with him in the e.r when he was using vicodins and xanax. they stuck him in a room unattended for 10 hrs..the doctors were so annoyed that he was wasting a bed.. I will try never again to have to bring him there unless he wants to hurt himself or somebody else...my thoughts are with you and your son!
goody2shuz
12-04-2006, 06:43 PM
Hope, sweetie, you are doing so wonderfully. I don't think there is another thing I would recommend you do other than take some time out to take a warm bath or shower....it will remind you that you still need to take care of your needs so that you can better tend to Zac's. I agree that the Bipolar should be addressed first and then look into the rest. I would think that with the right meds he will not look to drugs to feel better. I remember when Erin was caught smoking pot she told me that it was too painful to deal with everything she just wanted to feel better and numb so is didn't hurt so much. She told us that the only thing that would make her feel better was the pot or just going to sleep that way she didn't have anything to deal with. I would think that Zac is doing the same exact thing. There is too much pain right now, too many losses to deal with. Until he gets the proper meds he will continue to feel this way. I recall that with each of Erin's hospitalizations it took a day or two of observation before they perscribed/changed meds. They want to see what by observation he is presenting with in order to find the right med that will treat it. If he is depressed they will go with one thing, manic another or if he is cycling they will use another med. I know it is a very frustrating process but it is important to assess whether he is manic, depressive or in a mixed state.
As far as the sheets being tied together, Erin did the same thing when she was manic....she just wanted to be anywhere but home and planned her escape. That was the scariest part....thinking that she would run into the dead of the night and end up anywhere. She succeeded at doing so despsite our onststalling door alarms. There were 5 police cars and a canine unit looking for over two hours for her.....they found her 11 hours later at a boys house!! This was when she was on only an antidepressant which tirggered the mania. It seems to me as if Zac is demonstrating the same mania. I would thing that by upping his Seroquel they may take care of that. The abilfy also is known to address the mania but isn't as fast acting as the Seroquel. How much Seroquel is he on??? And what about the Abilify??
Please know that you and Zac are in my prayers. I am thinking about you constantly and sending (((HUGS))) and wishes of strength your way.
Please know that you are not alone and that we are here for you to serve in any capacity that you may need.
I also wonder where Pippin is and how she and Erika are doing. I am worried since it has been quite sometime since she has posted.
As for Erin....I really think that we are in a good place. What I see is typical teenage behavior. She made up with her best guy friend and is realizing that some of her actions have consequences and that she can lose friends if she doesn't think about what she says or does in certain situations. So I think the combo of meds is a good one and this is the most stable I have seen Erin since her last hospitalization. We are now in the process of finding a new pdoc and therapist since the state now feels that Erin is well enough to not require their services anymore. We see the pdoc this Thursday for the last time....she feels that there really isn't any need to increase Erin's meds anymore since she is doing so well on them. So Hope, there is hope for Zac!! You hang in there and know that stabilization is in the near future. And when you get there you will know it because then you will feel the aftermath of all that you are going through now....and you are going to need that support more than ever.....it all hit me when Erin started improving. so long as she was needing my attention I was alright, but as soon as thing got better that is when it all hit me. I am just preparing you because it will happen....this wave of both physical and emotional exhaustion will hit you like a ton of bricks!! And it is then that you will realize that you have been to hell and back but that through the grace of God and the angels He has sent you, you survived. Like I said, you and Zac and your entire family are in my prayers.
I will be peeking in but am extremely busy planning hubby's surprise 50th birthday party!! I finally feel we have something to celebrate....it will be a party we both need. And then we are off to the Bahamas for a getaway thanks to my parents offering to come in to be with Erin. We really need it and I am looking so much forward to it as is hubby.:blob_fire
So if I am not here it is because we are busy taking care of all of this plus preparing for the holidays. I would imagine that this holiday season will be difficult for you Hope, I know that last year I just seemed to float through it. Christmas is for family and I know that right now you must be feeling such a loss. But please remember that God's love and strength are there for you and that your mom and sister are still around looking out for you and Zac. Erin's Bipolar started when we had two family deaths as well within a week of one another and I know without a doubt that Nana and her Great Uncle are watching over her. Just yesterday she wrote an English essay on what she believes and hers was about how people who are no longer with us as well as those who still are are able to bring heaven to earth. She of course wrote about Nana and her Great Uncle.....a few months ago she couldn't without crying. As I read her essay it almost confirmed what I am believing myself....that the meds are finally working and my Erin is coming home to me. IT's all I want for Christmas this year for her and for me!!:angel:
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
As far as the sheets being tied together, Erin did the same thing when she was manic....she just wanted to be anywhere but home and planned her escape. That was the scariest part....thinking that she would run into the dead of the night and end up anywhere. She succeeded at doing so despsite our onststalling door alarms. There were 5 police cars and a canine unit looking for over two hours for her.....they found her 11 hours later at a boys house!! This was when she was on only an antidepressant which tirggered the mania. It seems to me as if Zac is demonstrating the same mania. I would thing that by upping his Seroquel they may take care of that. The abilfy also is known to address the mania but isn't as fast acting as the Seroquel. How much Seroquel is he on??? And what about the Abilify??
Please know that you and Zac are in my prayers. I am thinking about you constantly and sending (((HUGS))) and wishes of strength your way.
Please know that you are not alone and that we are here for you to serve in any capacity that you may need.
I also wonder where Pippin is and how she and Erika are doing. I am worried since it has been quite sometime since she has posted.
As for Erin....I really think that we are in a good place. What I see is typical teenage behavior. She made up with her best guy friend and is realizing that some of her actions have consequences and that she can lose friends if she doesn't think about what she says or does in certain situations. So I think the combo of meds is a good one and this is the most stable I have seen Erin since her last hospitalization. We are now in the process of finding a new pdoc and therapist since the state now feels that Erin is well enough to not require their services anymore. We see the pdoc this Thursday for the last time....she feels that there really isn't any need to increase Erin's meds anymore since she is doing so well on them. So Hope, there is hope for Zac!! You hang in there and know that stabilization is in the near future. And when you get there you will know it because then you will feel the aftermath of all that you are going through now....and you are going to need that support more than ever.....it all hit me when Erin started improving. so long as she was needing my attention I was alright, but as soon as thing got better that is when it all hit me. I am just preparing you because it will happen....this wave of both physical and emotional exhaustion will hit you like a ton of bricks!! And it is then that you will realize that you have been to hell and back but that through the grace of God and the angels He has sent you, you survived. Like I said, you and Zac and your entire family are in my prayers.
I will be peeking in but am extremely busy planning hubby's surprise 50th birthday party!! I finally feel we have something to celebrate....it will be a party we both need. And then we are off to the Bahamas for a getaway thanks to my parents offering to come in to be with Erin. We really need it and I am looking so much forward to it as is hubby.:blob_fire
So if I am not here it is because we are busy taking care of all of this plus preparing for the holidays. I would imagine that this holiday season will be difficult for you Hope, I know that last year I just seemed to float through it. Christmas is for family and I know that right now you must be feeling such a loss. But please remember that God's love and strength are there for you and that your mom and sister are still around looking out for you and Zac. Erin's Bipolar started when we had two family deaths as well within a week of one another and I know without a doubt that Nana and her Great Uncle are watching over her. Just yesterday she wrote an English essay on what she believes and hers was about how people who are no longer with us as well as those who still are are able to bring heaven to earth. She of course wrote about Nana and her Great Uncle.....a few months ago she couldn't without crying. As I read her essay it almost confirmed what I am believing myself....that the meds are finally working and my Erin is coming home to me. IT's all I want for Christmas this year for her and for me!!:angel:
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
langlee
12-06-2006, 11:44 AM
Hello All,
Goody - I'm so delighted to hear that Erin is doing so much better. I know you have waited a long time for this. I''m also happy to hear that you and hubby are taking some time for yourselves. Right now I can't even imagine what if feels like to have a regular life with plans. Between my mother, my sister and Zac, I feel like I'm just moving through the days. I know that will change once Zac is more stabilized.
What meds is Erin currently on? Zac is now on 150 mg. of Lamictal, Seroquel as needed for anxiety and 100 mg. at night and 10 mg. of Abilify. He is doing a little better, but is completely focused on getting out of the inpatient facility and we are focusing on what to do next.
I am disappointed that the IOP was not more successful. For a time, things were really looking up, but at the end of 8 weeks and ALOT of money, I feel like we are in a worse place than ever. I'm continuing my research to find the solution because I still believe that the bipolar is not stabilized. Zac says he feels manic most of the time and it's not the happy manic, it's the irritable and edgy manic. He said he feels like he's racing.
I'll keep you all posted. Hope everyone is doing well.
Love,
Hope
Goody - I'm so delighted to hear that Erin is doing so much better. I know you have waited a long time for this. I''m also happy to hear that you and hubby are taking some time for yourselves. Right now I can't even imagine what if feels like to have a regular life with plans. Between my mother, my sister and Zac, I feel like I'm just moving through the days. I know that will change once Zac is more stabilized.
What meds is Erin currently on? Zac is now on 150 mg. of Lamictal, Seroquel as needed for anxiety and 100 mg. at night and 10 mg. of Abilify. He is doing a little better, but is completely focused on getting out of the inpatient facility and we are focusing on what to do next.
I am disappointed that the IOP was not more successful. For a time, things were really looking up, but at the end of 8 weeks and ALOT of money, I feel like we are in a worse place than ever. I'm continuing my research to find the solution because I still believe that the bipolar is not stabilized. Zac says he feels manic most of the time and it's not the happy manic, it's the irritable and edgy manic. He said he feels like he's racing.
I'll keep you all posted. Hope everyone is doing well.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Hi ladies,
We celebrated our son's 25th birthday last evening. A year and a half ago, getting to 25 seemed pretty doubtful. Keep our story in mind when you're feeling discouraged with what seems like one step forward and 3 back....
Hope ~ I would suggest to you that it may be too early to know what the results were from the IOP. I've found that sometimes things are internalized from these experiences that become a part of your son's skills that he will use to build a better life for himself. He doesn't have all the skills put together yet...but I think you'll find down the road he has picked things up from the IOP that will become more apparent in the future...if that makes any sense to you! I felt like we had wasted a lot of money on a program we sent our son to, but several years later, I realize now that he actually did learn some coping skills that have allowed him to recover and to learn to live well with his bipolar disorder. But you musn't think that if you find the "right" place for Zac, he will be well in a matter of days. This is a long process and you will only set yourself up for great disappointment if you expect changes to happen quickly.
Do you know if they are planning on increasing the dosage of Lamictal?
Hope things are going ok for everyone. This time of year is really tough for so many. best, Tsohl
We celebrated our son's 25th birthday last evening. A year and a half ago, getting to 25 seemed pretty doubtful. Keep our story in mind when you're feeling discouraged with what seems like one step forward and 3 back....
Hope ~ I would suggest to you that it may be too early to know what the results were from the IOP. I've found that sometimes things are internalized from these experiences that become a part of your son's skills that he will use to build a better life for himself. He doesn't have all the skills put together yet...but I think you'll find down the road he has picked things up from the IOP that will become more apparent in the future...if that makes any sense to you! I felt like we had wasted a lot of money on a program we sent our son to, but several years later, I realize now that he actually did learn some coping skills that have allowed him to recover and to learn to live well with his bipolar disorder. But you musn't think that if you find the "right" place for Zac, he will be well in a matter of days. This is a long process and you will only set yourself up for great disappointment if you expect changes to happen quickly.
Do you know if they are planning on increasing the dosage of Lamictal?
Hope things are going ok for everyone. This time of year is really tough for so many. best, Tsohl
langlee
12-06-2006, 04:08 PM
Dear, dear Tsohl,
You are always so wise. I know that I can't set myself up for miracles, but I need to feel that I am on my way to a more targeted approach.
I am frustrated once again becasue I spoke to the psychologist at the inpatient program who told me not that they were not yet focusing on his discharge and then the psychiatrist called, with Zac in the room, and said he could be discharged on Friday. She thinks he ultimately needs long term residential treatment, but I'm very unsure of that. So far, I have not been impressed with the general inpatient programs.
The psychologist is also very focused on his substance abuse. I still feel that until his bipolar is effectively addressed, that drug rehab is only going to go so far. From Zac's perspective, he was sober for 128 days and he has had a few relapses, but he is not an addict. He needs to internalize why any substance abuse if dangerous to him.
Sorry to always be so self-centered. This is so hard. But I did want to congratulate you on celebrating your son's 25th birthday. You and your son continue to give me hope.
Love,
Hope
You are always so wise. I know that I can't set myself up for miracles, but I need to feel that I am on my way to a more targeted approach.
I am frustrated once again becasue I spoke to the psychologist at the inpatient program who told me not that they were not yet focusing on his discharge and then the psychiatrist called, with Zac in the room, and said he could be discharged on Friday. She thinks he ultimately needs long term residential treatment, but I'm very unsure of that. So far, I have not been impressed with the general inpatient programs.
The psychologist is also very focused on his substance abuse. I still feel that until his bipolar is effectively addressed, that drug rehab is only going to go so far. From Zac's perspective, he was sober for 128 days and he has had a few relapses, but he is not an addict. He needs to internalize why any substance abuse if dangerous to him.
Sorry to always be so self-centered. This is so hard. But I did want to congratulate you on celebrating your son's 25th birthday. You and your son continue to give me hope.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-06-2006, 08:41 PM
Hey Hope.
You are so sweet to say I am wise. I'm not. I've just gone through what you're going through now, and lived to talk about it!!
You're not self-centered. When you're in the midst of a crisis, it isn't possible to think of anything else. It totally engulfs you and your brain just can't turn off or be distracted from it.
I only posted about the birthday so you all would see that as horrendous as your lives are right now, you must hold on to the hope that your child too can and will learn to live with this disorder. I didn't know about this board when we were going through our darkest moments (days, weeks) and I read it now and post on it in hopes that my experiences can help somebody.
Now, I have to tell you, and I said this to Goody earlier, it has been my exact experience as yours, that the docs want to focus on the substance abuse rather than the bipolar. In my son's case, his first doc on the East coast where he was in college, refused to actively treat him until he agreed to stop using pot. He had initially prescribed lithium, but when he realized my son was still self-medicating, he refused to prescribe additional meds the pdoc knew he needed...but he did keep writing for the lithium and demanded to see him once a month. So they'd just sit and look at each other for the half hour time!! Then after graduation when he was back in this area, a new doc that he'd be going to for several months refused to treat him at all unless he enrolled in a 12-step program!! He wouldn't even give him more meds when he ran out!! (I was really angry about that one!!). So even though to us it seems logical that you'd work on the bipolar first, it seems common to approach it the other way. Maybe they all think this is how you go about it.
How much looking have you done for a residential program? We pretty much let our son pick out a treatment program when he came to us and said he felt he needed that. I went and looked at several with him, but we figured it ultimately needed to be his choice or he might not throw himself into it wholeheartedly. Of course he was older than Zac and had been at college on his own for four years...but even if he'd been in high school we probably would have approached it the same way, due to the kind of kid he is.
If you could find a program that only dealt with bipolar kids, it might be useful. I don't know if any even exist. What are your alternatives?? Until he is more stable he won't be able to go back to his regular school, right? Have you had any contact with your local NAMI? Maybe someone there might be a resource. Well, all for now. best, Tsohl
You are so sweet to say I am wise. I'm not. I've just gone through what you're going through now, and lived to talk about it!!
You're not self-centered. When you're in the midst of a crisis, it isn't possible to think of anything else. It totally engulfs you and your brain just can't turn off or be distracted from it.
I only posted about the birthday so you all would see that as horrendous as your lives are right now, you must hold on to the hope that your child too can and will learn to live with this disorder. I didn't know about this board when we were going through our darkest moments (days, weeks) and I read it now and post on it in hopes that my experiences can help somebody.
Now, I have to tell you, and I said this to Goody earlier, it has been my exact experience as yours, that the docs want to focus on the substance abuse rather than the bipolar. In my son's case, his first doc on the East coast where he was in college, refused to actively treat him until he agreed to stop using pot. He had initially prescribed lithium, but when he realized my son was still self-medicating, he refused to prescribe additional meds the pdoc knew he needed...but he did keep writing for the lithium and demanded to see him once a month. So they'd just sit and look at each other for the half hour time!! Then after graduation when he was back in this area, a new doc that he'd be going to for several months refused to treat him at all unless he enrolled in a 12-step program!! He wouldn't even give him more meds when he ran out!! (I was really angry about that one!!). So even though to us it seems logical that you'd work on the bipolar first, it seems common to approach it the other way. Maybe they all think this is how you go about it.
How much looking have you done for a residential program? We pretty much let our son pick out a treatment program when he came to us and said he felt he needed that. I went and looked at several with him, but we figured it ultimately needed to be his choice or he might not throw himself into it wholeheartedly. Of course he was older than Zac and had been at college on his own for four years...but even if he'd been in high school we probably would have approached it the same way, due to the kind of kid he is.
If you could find a program that only dealt with bipolar kids, it might be useful. I don't know if any even exist. What are your alternatives?? Until he is more stable he won't be able to go back to his regular school, right? Have you had any contact with your local NAMI? Maybe someone there might be a resource. Well, all for now. best, Tsohl
langlee
12-06-2006, 08:59 PM
My dear Tsohl,
It's so interesting that you say you had your son look for programs. Did he go to a residential program? I've been thinking that I have to appeal to Zac's intellect and have him become a part of the solution. I have been investigating the Mood Disorder Clinic at Johns Hopkins. They only deal with affective disorders such as bipolar, depression and anorexia. It sounds promising and I've spoken to several people there. It is a hospitalization, though, and not a resdiential treatment program. Do you know anything about it?
Zac, of course, has no interest in a residential program. He'll consider the Hopkins program because he understands the value of being at a research hospital. I'm struggling with how to get him to internalize how important it is for him to start to manage this disorder, rather than self-medicate and run from it. His current inpatient program kept him safe, but didn't have the structure we hoped for.
I know your son was older, but when did he finally "get" it? I so value you and the others on this board, Tsolh. Thank you for being there for me.
Love,
Hope
It's so interesting that you say you had your son look for programs. Did he go to a residential program? I've been thinking that I have to appeal to Zac's intellect and have him become a part of the solution. I have been investigating the Mood Disorder Clinic at Johns Hopkins. They only deal with affective disorders such as bipolar, depression and anorexia. It sounds promising and I've spoken to several people there. It is a hospitalization, though, and not a resdiential treatment program. Do you know anything about it?
Zac, of course, has no interest in a residential program. He'll consider the Hopkins program because he understands the value of being at a research hospital. I'm struggling with how to get him to internalize how important it is for him to start to manage this disorder, rather than self-medicate and run from it. His current inpatient program kept him safe, but didn't have the structure we hoped for.
I know your son was older, but when did he finally "get" it? I so value you and the others on this board, Tsolh. Thank you for being there for me.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-06-2006, 09:20 PM
Our son was over 18 so we couldn't force him to attend anything. That being said, we knew, and as I recall he even verbalized, that if it wasn't a program that he was fully behind, he wouldn't give it his "all" and therefore, it would be a waste of money. Yes, after he hit what was for him rock bottom and checked himself into the private mental hospital, when he knew he had to do something (which involved admitting he could no longer self medicate in any way) he thought he needed to go into a residential program where he'd have a change of scene. He found a program in Florida that he thought would meet his needs -- it was an open ended program, but most people stay one month, which is about how long he stayed. He had finished college, so education wasn't a problem.
Unfortunately I don't know anything about Johns Hopkins' programs. Sorry.
Zac probably won't get it until he gets into a program that makes some sense to him -- where he finds something that clicks. You may just have trial and error until you find that. How long is the program at Hopkins? Maybe he could go for awhile -- I would think that in an inpatient program they could get his meds straightened out fairly quickly--and then with some time for therapy, etc. it may be enough to get him on the right path so that he could then come back home and continue on locally. I'll look at their website and see what I think--I'm pretty good at evaluating programs from what they choose to tell you about how they go about treatment--I'll also email my sister-in-law. She has her PhD in psych. and works with adolescents. She's in Michigan but she may know something about some programs in your area..... i'll get back to you....Tsohl
Unfortunately I don't know anything about Johns Hopkins' programs. Sorry.
Zac probably won't get it until he gets into a program that makes some sense to him -- where he finds something that clicks. You may just have trial and error until you find that. How long is the program at Hopkins? Maybe he could go for awhile -- I would think that in an inpatient program they could get his meds straightened out fairly quickly--and then with some time for therapy, etc. it may be enough to get him on the right path so that he could then come back home and continue on locally. I'll look at their website and see what I think--I'm pretty good at evaluating programs from what they choose to tell you about how they go about treatment--I'll also email my sister-in-law. She has her PhD in psych. and works with adolescents. She's in Michigan but she may know something about some programs in your area..... i'll get back to you....Tsohl
goody2shuz
12-06-2006, 09:30 PM
Hi, Hope....I am so sorry that I haven't been around for you as much as I would like to...been so busy trying to put together a surprise 50th birthday party for hubby....it's on Saturday and then the two of us leave on Monday for a getaway for 6 days!!!:blob_fire I am a little nervous about that but I do trust my mom and the tdoc and pdoc are promising to be readily available for my parents in case of emergency. The last time we were away alone was 12 years ago....I think that we really need this but I am so nervous leaving Erin....as if God knew He made sure that she has been s howing signs of stability just so I can go with peace of mind.
Anyway....my heart is going out to you as you face this crisis before you. You can and will get through it, Hope....I did when Erin was hospitalized 5 times this year all within a 4 month period of time....the last time being for 10 weeks!!! Go with what you see as the right thing....your intuition is strong as a mom and usually right on. Come here, as I did, and seek out the support and reach out to any and all resources available to you.....the more you do the clearer things will be. There is definitely hope for Zac....a while back I never thought things would get to where we are with Erin right now....Tsohl was there too.;) We are all on this road together, some a little farther ahead and some right by our side but still we are all here on this journey together. I too find such hope in hearing about Tsohl's son who is stabilized. I don't know if I can quite say that Erin is stable....I hear that if you have a good year without any further occurrences it is safe to say that you have found stability. I don't know if I can fully trust we are there yet but from what I am seeing now there is definite improvement.
Hope....if John Hopkins has a fairly structured program that is long term I would go with that. Our first psychiatrist suggested a RTC before even having a clear diagnosis on Erin....he just saw the behavior as oppositional and treated her for depression little did we know that by doing so he was throwing her into a mania as he increased the antidepressant. The first 4 hospitalizations were what we called "a bandaid effect". They really didn't help Erin....it wasn't until she was in a long term hospitalization that she received the most help. Even Erin agrees with this and although before the proper meds and diagnosis she cried about wanting to come home when she was finally feeling better she realized how important staying in the hospital was. I don't really think that Zac is even capable of making a decision about what type of help he needs....he is unstable and his thought processes are not capable of making such a decision. I think that you have to ask Zac to trust you and remind him that you love him and want him to find the stability that he needs and reassure him that you will no matter what obstacles you may face. Erin needed to hear that from me....that I wouldn't give up until we found the right treatment/meds. When she was discharged and she attended an intake for followup services, when the therapist asked who was her hero she said "my parents". It was then that I realized, as you will, that I had done the right thing for her.
Hope, John Hopkins is tops in terms of treating illnesses.....they are up with all the research and treatment and I think it would be a wonderful choice. If you can get him there I would say go for it. I am sure that they will have some type of Ronald McDonald house in which you can stay if he is going to be there long term. As parents we will do just about anything to get the help that our children need. I know that you are that type of mom.
How does your hubby feel about all of this?? And how is he dealing with it?? I know that this has got to be tough on the two of you....please know that I am thinking of you and your entire family and hoping that you will get the help that you need for Zac.
I am a little worried about Pippin....we haven't heard from her in way too long and that does concern me. I sure hope that she will check in here and let us know that she and Erika are okay.
Hope and all....I will try to check in as much as possible. For the next week or two I will be quite busy but my thoughts and heart will be with each one of you. I can't help but think of you as family.....it is here that I find respite and hope. I know that you feel the same.
(((((HUGS)))))) and a neverending supply of prayers. ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Anyway....my heart is going out to you as you face this crisis before you. You can and will get through it, Hope....I did when Erin was hospitalized 5 times this year all within a 4 month period of time....the last time being for 10 weeks!!! Go with what you see as the right thing....your intuition is strong as a mom and usually right on. Come here, as I did, and seek out the support and reach out to any and all resources available to you.....the more you do the clearer things will be. There is definitely hope for Zac....a while back I never thought things would get to where we are with Erin right now....Tsohl was there too.;) We are all on this road together, some a little farther ahead and some right by our side but still we are all here on this journey together. I too find such hope in hearing about Tsohl's son who is stabilized. I don't know if I can quite say that Erin is stable....I hear that if you have a good year without any further occurrences it is safe to say that you have found stability. I don't know if I can fully trust we are there yet but from what I am seeing now there is definite improvement.
Hope....if John Hopkins has a fairly structured program that is long term I would go with that. Our first psychiatrist suggested a RTC before even having a clear diagnosis on Erin....he just saw the behavior as oppositional and treated her for depression little did we know that by doing so he was throwing her into a mania as he increased the antidepressant. The first 4 hospitalizations were what we called "a bandaid effect". They really didn't help Erin....it wasn't until she was in a long term hospitalization that she received the most help. Even Erin agrees with this and although before the proper meds and diagnosis she cried about wanting to come home when she was finally feeling better she realized how important staying in the hospital was. I don't really think that Zac is even capable of making a decision about what type of help he needs....he is unstable and his thought processes are not capable of making such a decision. I think that you have to ask Zac to trust you and remind him that you love him and want him to find the stability that he needs and reassure him that you will no matter what obstacles you may face. Erin needed to hear that from me....that I wouldn't give up until we found the right treatment/meds. When she was discharged and she attended an intake for followup services, when the therapist asked who was her hero she said "my parents". It was then that I realized, as you will, that I had done the right thing for her.
Hope, John Hopkins is tops in terms of treating illnesses.....they are up with all the research and treatment and I think it would be a wonderful choice. If you can get him there I would say go for it. I am sure that they will have some type of Ronald McDonald house in which you can stay if he is going to be there long term. As parents we will do just about anything to get the help that our children need. I know that you are that type of mom.
How does your hubby feel about all of this?? And how is he dealing with it?? I know that this has got to be tough on the two of you....please know that I am thinking of you and your entire family and hoping that you will get the help that you need for Zac.
I am a little worried about Pippin....we haven't heard from her in way too long and that does concern me. I sure hope that she will check in here and let us know that she and Erika are okay.
Hope and all....I will try to check in as much as possible. For the next week or two I will be quite busy but my thoughts and heart will be with each one of you. I can't help but think of you as family.....it is here that I find respite and hope. I know that you feel the same.
(((((HUGS)))))) and a neverending supply of prayers. ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
12-06-2006, 09:49 PM
Goody,
I totally agree with everything you wrote to Hope, and I too am worried about Pippin. She hasn't posted in quite awhile now.
One thing regarding Erin: with someone as young and relatively immature as Erin, you will need to watch for compliance with her meds. It is SO common for people to feel so much better, and after they've been stable awhile, it is easy to think maybe they're "well" and don't need them any more. You get sick of the routine of having to swallow all those pills and off you go to college feeling "normal" and pretty soon you decide "Gee, I don't really need this stuff any more. I bet I've outgrown the problem...etc. " You get the picture. Speaking personally, I don't know when you get to the point where you think your child is stable and ok. There's a part of me that still holds my breath concerning our son. And I worry if several days go by and I haven't talked with him. But that's a topic for another day!
Hope you have a wonderful party with your friends and a fabulous trip. I know it will be hard to relax as you'll still have your heart back home worrying about Erin...but do try to relax and enjoy. You're only a plane ride away if you need to get back home! best, Tsohl
I totally agree with everything you wrote to Hope, and I too am worried about Pippin. She hasn't posted in quite awhile now.
One thing regarding Erin: with someone as young and relatively immature as Erin, you will need to watch for compliance with her meds. It is SO common for people to feel so much better, and after they've been stable awhile, it is easy to think maybe they're "well" and don't need them any more. You get sick of the routine of having to swallow all those pills and off you go to college feeling "normal" and pretty soon you decide "Gee, I don't really need this stuff any more. I bet I've outgrown the problem...etc. " You get the picture. Speaking personally, I don't know when you get to the point where you think your child is stable and ok. There's a part of me that still holds my breath concerning our son. And I worry if several days go by and I haven't talked with him. But that's a topic for another day!
Hope you have a wonderful party with your friends and a fabulous trip. I know it will be hard to relax as you'll still have your heart back home worrying about Erin...but do try to relax and enjoy. You're only a plane ride away if you need to get back home! best, Tsohl
langlee
12-08-2006, 11:47 AM
Hi All,
Goody-I wanted to make sure I reached out and told you to have a WONDERFUL time on vacation!
I'm worried about Pippin, too. Pippin - please let us know how you and Erika are!
I'll post more soon. Zac is being released today and we're going to pick him up. He was wonderful when we saw him last night, but we know we still can't trust it. So many times we thought he rounded the corner, only to be devastated when he spun out of control again but, for today, we are happy to have our son back.
More later.
Love,
Hope
Goody-I wanted to make sure I reached out and told you to have a WONDERFUL time on vacation!
I'm worried about Pippin, too. Pippin - please let us know how you and Erika are!
I'll post more soon. Zac is being released today and we're going to pick him up. He was wonderful when we saw him last night, but we know we still can't trust it. So many times we thought he rounded the corner, only to be devastated when he spun out of control again but, for today, we are happy to have our son back.
More later.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-08-2006, 02:52 PM
Hi all,
There is a chance that this experience may be just what Zac needed to get a handle on his issues. This was the case with our son. When he hit bottom he checked himself into a mental hospital. But after being there for less than 24 hours, he realized that it was not the answer. He realized that there wasn't a "program" that was going to solve his issues and that he was going to have to pretty much figure it out on his own. So he convinced the pdoc in charge that he was in the wrong place and wanted to be released. I was so shocked when he called me to come pick him up. I thought he'd be in at least a week or longer! But as it turned out, my son was right. He figured out what he needed for himself and we went on from there.
I am hoping that this experience for Zac will be that type of experience! I'm hoping he'll be happy to be back home and will realize he has what he needs to get well in your home environment, with the help of a good therapist and out-patient treatment. I'll look forward to reading your posts and you know my best wishes are with you and your family....Tsohl
There is a chance that this experience may be just what Zac needed to get a handle on his issues. This was the case with our son. When he hit bottom he checked himself into a mental hospital. But after being there for less than 24 hours, he realized that it was not the answer. He realized that there wasn't a "program" that was going to solve his issues and that he was going to have to pretty much figure it out on his own. So he convinced the pdoc in charge that he was in the wrong place and wanted to be released. I was so shocked when he called me to come pick him up. I thought he'd be in at least a week or longer! But as it turned out, my son was right. He figured out what he needed for himself and we went on from there.
I am hoping that this experience for Zac will be that type of experience! I'm hoping he'll be happy to be back home and will realize he has what he needs to get well in your home environment, with the help of a good therapist and out-patient treatment. I'll look forward to reading your posts and you know my best wishes are with you and your family....Tsohl
jules3
12-08-2006, 04:13 PM
Goody i know you are from ny... I really would like to find a new pdoc for my son somewhere on long island, queens...I hate just going into the insurance book and picking a doctor..any suggestions?
tsohl
12-11-2006, 02:01 AM
Hello ~ Just a quick note to check in and see how everyone is doing.
Hope to hear how Zac is now that he's back home...
And about your son, as well, Jules.
Hope Goody had a successful party and that she and hubby will have a great vacation and that Erin will be well while they are gone...
and Pippin, we're all waiting to hear news from you.
I'm reading a new book that is a bit different from the others...it is called "The Bipolar Advantage." You might want to check it out and see what you think.
best, Tsohl
Hope to hear how Zac is now that he's back home...
And about your son, as well, Jules.
Hope Goody had a successful party and that she and hubby will have a great vacation and that Erin will be well while they are gone...
and Pippin, we're all waiting to hear news from you.
I'm reading a new book that is a bit different from the others...it is called "The Bipolar Advantage." You might want to check it out and see what you think.
best, Tsohl
jules3
12-11-2006, 09:10 AM
Hi ts,
i did write you back a few days ago on the thread "need more advice on meds"...so if you go there maybe you can give me some more insight into your thought on my sons bipolar diagnosis..thank you
i did write you back a few days ago on the thread "need more advice on meds"...so if you go there maybe you can give me some more insight into your thought on my sons bipolar diagnosis..thank you
langlee
12-13-2006, 05:01 PM
Hi All,
Seems like this thread has been quiet since Goody is on vacation and Pippin has not posted for awhile.
Things are OK with Zac. He had a harder time adjusting to being out of the hospital than he thought he would - he found it difficult to go from total structure to little structure. He also did not go back to the IOP so he has floundered a little bit. He interviewed new therapists this week and found one that he likes a lot, so I guess it's fresh start time. We also talked to a therapist who does cognitive/behavior therapy who is young, but very knowledgable about bipolar. The only problem is he is about 45 minutes from us and Zac is concerned about the schedule. I am going to talk to the new therapist and see if he thinks it would be worth it for Zac to go for a finite period of time to learn some of the behavioral recommendations. The new therapist is also very knowledgeable about bipolar because his son was diagnosed at 18 and he has lots of inside experience and contacts. I am keeping my fingers crossed that we are digging deeper into the help that Zac really needs so he can get on with his life.
This has been exhausting, but I remain hopeful that we are going to finally have a plan and Zac will get the help that will change his life. The IOP was great for the first four weeks, but lost its focus after that and Zac started to slide. I remain convinced that until we harness the bipolar beast that nothing else will really work for any length of time.
You are all in my hearts.
Love,
Hope
Seems like this thread has been quiet since Goody is on vacation and Pippin has not posted for awhile.
Things are OK with Zac. He had a harder time adjusting to being out of the hospital than he thought he would - he found it difficult to go from total structure to little structure. He also did not go back to the IOP so he has floundered a little bit. He interviewed new therapists this week and found one that he likes a lot, so I guess it's fresh start time. We also talked to a therapist who does cognitive/behavior therapy who is young, but very knowledgable about bipolar. The only problem is he is about 45 minutes from us and Zac is concerned about the schedule. I am going to talk to the new therapist and see if he thinks it would be worth it for Zac to go for a finite period of time to learn some of the behavioral recommendations. The new therapist is also very knowledgeable about bipolar because his son was diagnosed at 18 and he has lots of inside experience and contacts. I am keeping my fingers crossed that we are digging deeper into the help that Zac really needs so he can get on with his life.
This has been exhausting, but I remain hopeful that we are going to finally have a plan and Zac will get the help that will change his life. The IOP was great for the first four weeks, but lost its focus after that and Zac started to slide. I remain convinced that until we harness the bipolar beast that nothing else will really work for any length of time.
You are all in my hearts.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-13-2006, 05:23 PM
Hello Hope,
Missed hearing from you. That is very good news about the new pdoc...and how terrific that he has a son with bipolar! (Well, you know what I mean....)
Things will turn around fairly quickly when you find the right combination of meds, and this should hopefully be soon with the new doc. I am thrilled for you. You are making progress, even though it probably doesn't feel like it at the time. When I mentioned the cutting to my son, his reaction was "In the entire scheme of things, that is no big deal. But it does make adults freak out...." Meaning, when you have a handle on the bp, the rest with be fairly easy to resolve. It's hard for us to understand...I just don't understand cutting...but my son did it for awhile, too.
Gotta run. The plumber just arrived. Please keep posting. It's good to hear how Zac and you are doing. best, Tsohl
Missed hearing from you. That is very good news about the new pdoc...and how terrific that he has a son with bipolar! (Well, you know what I mean....)
Things will turn around fairly quickly when you find the right combination of meds, and this should hopefully be soon with the new doc. I am thrilled for you. You are making progress, even though it probably doesn't feel like it at the time. When I mentioned the cutting to my son, his reaction was "In the entire scheme of things, that is no big deal. But it does make adults freak out...." Meaning, when you have a handle on the bp, the rest with be fairly easy to resolve. It's hard for us to understand...I just don't understand cutting...but my son did it for awhile, too.
Gotta run. The plumber just arrived. Please keep posting. It's good to hear how Zac and you are doing. best, Tsohl
langlee
12-13-2006, 07:12 PM
Dear Tsohl,
He's a tdoc, not a pdoc, but he's very connected and I am hopeful. Zac loved him and that's the first time I've heard him say that about a therapist.
I agree with your son about the cutting. I have always looked at the cutting, the drugs, and all of the other self-medicating behavior as syptomatic of the bigger problem of bp. The problem with both of those is that they can take over. The cutting has been a bigger problem this year because it has gotten more intense and the last time was closer to Zac's wrists. BUT, I do believe when we finally get the bp stabilized that Zac will be able to fight his other demons more effectively.
Thanks for always being there for us. As always, you give us hope.
Love Always,
Hope
He's a tdoc, not a pdoc, but he's very connected and I am hopeful. Zac loved him and that's the first time I've heard him say that about a therapist.
I agree with your son about the cutting. I have always looked at the cutting, the drugs, and all of the other self-medicating behavior as syptomatic of the bigger problem of bp. The problem with both of those is that they can take over. The cutting has been a bigger problem this year because it has gotten more intense and the last time was closer to Zac's wrists. BUT, I do believe when we finally get the bp stabilized that Zac will be able to fight his other demons more effectively.
Thanks for always being there for us. As always, you give us hope.
Love Always,
Hope
jules3
12-13-2006, 10:12 PM
A friend of mine has a daughter that cuts. she is also bipolar. she explained it to me one time why she cuts, basically she said when she cuts and feels the pain she knows shes alive. I guess you have to be in their minds to know what she means..I think emotionally they are numb and need to feel some kind of pain...does that make any sense?
langlee
12-14-2006, 12:23 PM
Unfortunately, I think it makes alot of sense. From what I've read, they experience some sort of "rush" when they cut and it makes them feel better. It is yet another struggle that Zac needs to conquer. He has so many challenges now that I sometimes wonder whether he will really ever get back to the life he was meant to have.
I'm frustrated, too, because we get so much conflicting information and I'm not sure what to do first. I'm focusing on the bipolar, but am worried that I may not be doing enough about the other things simultaneously. We are spending a fortune, trying to find the "answer" for him and he continues his self-destruction. He is good for awhile and then he seems to falter. His new philosophy is that he can use drugs or drink occasionally and it won't hurt him. (He does not tell us that directly, but I know him well enough to read between the lines). Since he had a serious addiciton and is not using everyday, he thinks he is not an addict. He doesn't realize that any drug use could take him down the path of addiciton and, moreso, that the combination of illegal drugs and psychiatric drugs can cause psychotic episodes.
This is soooo hard.
Sorry to be such a downer today. As he rides his emotional rollercoaster, he has taken his mother with him!
Hope
I'm frustrated, too, because we get so much conflicting information and I'm not sure what to do first. I'm focusing on the bipolar, but am worried that I may not be doing enough about the other things simultaneously. We are spending a fortune, trying to find the "answer" for him and he continues his self-destruction. He is good for awhile and then he seems to falter. His new philosophy is that he can use drugs or drink occasionally and it won't hurt him. (He does not tell us that directly, but I know him well enough to read between the lines). Since he had a serious addiciton and is not using everyday, he thinks he is not an addict. He doesn't realize that any drug use could take him down the path of addiciton and, moreso, that the combination of illegal drugs and psychiatric drugs can cause psychotic episodes.
This is soooo hard.
Sorry to be such a downer today. As he rides his emotional rollercoaster, he has taken his mother with him!
Hope
tsohl
12-14-2006, 01:48 PM
Hi Hope,
Glad you posted again so soon. Sorry to hear you're having a bad day. It is sooo hard. My heart goes out to you.
Regarding the cutting, it is often done by people who use amphetamines. Apparently when someone cuts, the body releases endomorphins and it results in the same kind of feeling that you'd get from taking speed or whatever ~ or so I read somewhere! Sometimes when people can't get their hands on the drugs, they resort to cutting.
The problem with the drug use is that the results of using a particular drug can mimic the behavior of a bipolar episode. When someone is using and trying to control BP with meds, it is hard to tell what's what. What is causing what...etc.
Hope I think you need to think about something you have written a number of times..."if he will get back to the life he was meant to have." I'm not sure what you mean by this, but every time I read it I have the same reaction. That is, that you should try to think of Zac in a new way. I've kind of lost track here, but I think with Zac you feel for sure that his diagnosis is correct and that he has bipolar. Is that correct? If that is the case, whatever hopes and dreams you had for Zac when he was a little boy need to be updated with some new ones. It may turn out that they will end up being one and the same...but you'll drive yourself crazy if you only focus on the hopes you had for him and the fears that now he won't accomplish them. I'm not expressing this very well...do you get an idea of what I'm trying to tell you? For example if you had a little girl and dreamed that she'd be a ballet dancer when she grew up and you put all your efforts into that by providing the best lessons, etc., maybe moving to NY so she could study with the best company, etc. and then suddenly she had a growth spurt, and grew to be 6 ' and suddenly you know that no classical company will ever hire her...you would need to refocus your dreams for her. It doesn't mean that she won't have a wonderful life. She'll just have to take her talents and abilities in a slightly different direction. Right now you need to devote all your thought process to getting Zac on an even keel. All the rest can wait.
All I can tell you from my own experience, and I can assure you that our son was cutting in high school and using pot on an almost daily basis, is that we could not find a pdoc who would prescribe meds as long as he was using drugs. After he graduated from college, worked a bit and then had the big crisis which resulted in him going into a residential program, it seemed much more directed toward the addictive behaviors. While he was working, as the stress mounted, he started using all kinds of different drugs, much stronger than pot. He considers himself to be an addict. While looking for programs, I noticed that they seemed to lump various disorders in together, along with the treatment for addiction. I couldn't find anything that was just for bipolar. Probably that is because they know how to treat addiction; the treatment for bipolar is a lot more "iffy."
I don't know, Hope, if you'll have this same experience. Maybe for younger kids there are programs that just treat BP. But I think you do have to get a handle on the drug use too. What does your pdoc say about this?? what are you doing with Zac at the moment?
Sorry this is so long and rambling....take care of yourself. It will take awhile, but things will work out. Hugs to you....Tsohl
Glad you posted again so soon. Sorry to hear you're having a bad day. It is sooo hard. My heart goes out to you.
Regarding the cutting, it is often done by people who use amphetamines. Apparently when someone cuts, the body releases endomorphins and it results in the same kind of feeling that you'd get from taking speed or whatever ~ or so I read somewhere! Sometimes when people can't get their hands on the drugs, they resort to cutting.
The problem with the drug use is that the results of using a particular drug can mimic the behavior of a bipolar episode. When someone is using and trying to control BP with meds, it is hard to tell what's what. What is causing what...etc.
Hope I think you need to think about something you have written a number of times..."if he will get back to the life he was meant to have." I'm not sure what you mean by this, but every time I read it I have the same reaction. That is, that you should try to think of Zac in a new way. I've kind of lost track here, but I think with Zac you feel for sure that his diagnosis is correct and that he has bipolar. Is that correct? If that is the case, whatever hopes and dreams you had for Zac when he was a little boy need to be updated with some new ones. It may turn out that they will end up being one and the same...but you'll drive yourself crazy if you only focus on the hopes you had for him and the fears that now he won't accomplish them. I'm not expressing this very well...do you get an idea of what I'm trying to tell you? For example if you had a little girl and dreamed that she'd be a ballet dancer when she grew up and you put all your efforts into that by providing the best lessons, etc., maybe moving to NY so she could study with the best company, etc. and then suddenly she had a growth spurt, and grew to be 6 ' and suddenly you know that no classical company will ever hire her...you would need to refocus your dreams for her. It doesn't mean that she won't have a wonderful life. She'll just have to take her talents and abilities in a slightly different direction. Right now you need to devote all your thought process to getting Zac on an even keel. All the rest can wait.
All I can tell you from my own experience, and I can assure you that our son was cutting in high school and using pot on an almost daily basis, is that we could not find a pdoc who would prescribe meds as long as he was using drugs. After he graduated from college, worked a bit and then had the big crisis which resulted in him going into a residential program, it seemed much more directed toward the addictive behaviors. While he was working, as the stress mounted, he started using all kinds of different drugs, much stronger than pot. He considers himself to be an addict. While looking for programs, I noticed that they seemed to lump various disorders in together, along with the treatment for addiction. I couldn't find anything that was just for bipolar. Probably that is because they know how to treat addiction; the treatment for bipolar is a lot more "iffy."
I don't know, Hope, if you'll have this same experience. Maybe for younger kids there are programs that just treat BP. But I think you do have to get a handle on the drug use too. What does your pdoc say about this?? what are you doing with Zac at the moment?
Sorry this is so long and rambling....take care of yourself. It will take awhile, but things will work out. Hugs to you....Tsohl
jules3
12-14-2006, 04:13 PM
Hope, you have so many things going on at the same time..and you feel like you dont know where to start..my son is 20 in between ts's son and zacs age. i understand what you are saying about the drugs, my son would definitly still be doing them if we werent on him 24/7..i mean we watch him like a 3 yr old..and let me tell you its getting old and im tired. we drug test weekly..imagine having to have your husband stand in the bathroom with him while hes peeing in a cup. then having a doctor say i cant treat his bipolarism with any new meds cause now hes drinking. I feel like im fighting a losing battle....the bottom line here is like ts keeps saying, they will take ownership of all this and help themselves when they are good and READY.. I know you dont choose to be bipolar, but you have to help yourself a little..do you agree? i mean we are spending a fortune here too..weekly visits to his pdoc, medications are so expensive. sometimes you feel like you want to give up....But we love these boys with all of our hearts , so we can't !!!
jules3
12-14-2006, 05:19 PM
Ts, i was reading your last post again...you sound so on the money with this whole bipolar thing...last weekend my son came home from being out with his friends with this weird kinda wild look in his eyes his speech was also strange and he was very hyper...i swore he was on some kinda drugs.. we had him do the whole peeing in the cup thing and it was all negative...his mood looked like he was on drugs but really it was the bipolar showing its colors. i know he has used drugs in the past, and have seen him on them...this time i was stumped..they looked the same..just like you said..
langlee
12-14-2006, 06:02 PM
Thanks, ladies. I really appreciate the support.
At this point, Tsohl, the life he was meant to have simply means getting back to school and being a teenager. Zac has not been in school since the beginning of the year and his life is very derailed right now. I'm not worrying at this point about long term dreams, just short term realities. But I appreciate the reality check because I certainly do need it.
More later, but love to all. Thank goodness I have all of you!
Love,
Hope
At this point, Tsohl, the life he was meant to have simply means getting back to school and being a teenager. Zac has not been in school since the beginning of the year and his life is very derailed right now. I'm not worrying at this point about long term dreams, just short term realities. But I appreciate the reality check because I certainly do need it.
More later, but love to all. Thank goodness I have all of you!
Love,
Hope
langlee
12-14-2006, 07:31 PM
I have a little time so I thought I'd try more clarity!
I am frustrated because I feel like I have been doing everything humanly possible to figure out the best plan for Zac so he can get on with his life and I am getting nowhere. I look at all of the time and effort and hope we have put into different mental health professionals, and the disappointments we have all suffered, not the least being Zac.
I can still see my son somewhere in the haze of all of this - bright, charming, handsome, talented, but he is lost. He has not been able to go to school since the beginning of the year, we invested alot of money and hope into the IOP only to realize it was not moving him forward, we are getting lots of conflicting advice from professionals who have only met him once or twice, and I want to SCREAM!
Tsohl is completely right. When I first joined this board, I thought I would get some advice, recommendations, help and Zac would be on his way! I have since realigned my expectations, but I don't think it's unreasonable to want him to have a life. He's drifting, he has been abandoned by professionals he trusted more than once, he is struggling and I know him well enough to see how he vacillates between hope and despair.
I would be willing to do anything for him if I could get a concrete recommendation, but I am fearful of doing anything that might be wrong. For example, the psychologist and the psychiatrist at the inpatient facility (he was there for one week) suggested residential treatment. No real recommendations of where or what to expect, just that he could use more intensive help because of the bipolar and history of substance abuse. By the end of the week the psychiatrist said he should either go residential or back to his high school and I'm wondering what that really means.
From Zac's perspective (and I don't completely disagree) his substance abuse was very severe for a concentrated period of time (for 2 1/2 months right after my mother died unexpectedly), he volunteered to go to drug rehab, was clean for 128 days and has had a few relapses. He needs help so that the doesn't fall back into the continuous use and he needs to understand the severity of illegal substances with his psychiatric meds, but is it enough to send him to a residential center?
I do like the tdoc alot and hopefully he'll be able to give us some clear direction. But I'm worn out by all of this (my husband even more so) and I can see how much Zac is struggling to be himself.
I'm going to take a deep breath. Tomorrow will be better. Thanks for letting me vent.
Hope
I am frustrated because I feel like I have been doing everything humanly possible to figure out the best plan for Zac so he can get on with his life and I am getting nowhere. I look at all of the time and effort and hope we have put into different mental health professionals, and the disappointments we have all suffered, not the least being Zac.
I can still see my son somewhere in the haze of all of this - bright, charming, handsome, talented, but he is lost. He has not been able to go to school since the beginning of the year, we invested alot of money and hope into the IOP only to realize it was not moving him forward, we are getting lots of conflicting advice from professionals who have only met him once or twice, and I want to SCREAM!
Tsohl is completely right. When I first joined this board, I thought I would get some advice, recommendations, help and Zac would be on his way! I have since realigned my expectations, but I don't think it's unreasonable to want him to have a life. He's drifting, he has been abandoned by professionals he trusted more than once, he is struggling and I know him well enough to see how he vacillates between hope and despair.
I would be willing to do anything for him if I could get a concrete recommendation, but I am fearful of doing anything that might be wrong. For example, the psychologist and the psychiatrist at the inpatient facility (he was there for one week) suggested residential treatment. No real recommendations of where or what to expect, just that he could use more intensive help because of the bipolar and history of substance abuse. By the end of the week the psychiatrist said he should either go residential or back to his high school and I'm wondering what that really means.
From Zac's perspective (and I don't completely disagree) his substance abuse was very severe for a concentrated period of time (for 2 1/2 months right after my mother died unexpectedly), he volunteered to go to drug rehab, was clean for 128 days and has had a few relapses. He needs help so that the doesn't fall back into the continuous use and he needs to understand the severity of illegal substances with his psychiatric meds, but is it enough to send him to a residential center?
I do like the tdoc alot and hopefully he'll be able to give us some clear direction. But I'm worn out by all of this (my husband even more so) and I can see how much Zac is struggling to be himself.
I'm going to take a deep breath. Tomorrow will be better. Thanks for letting me vent.
Hope
tsohl
12-14-2006, 09:32 PM
Hello again,
Jules ~ Thanks for the compliment. I'm always glad when some of my experience is helpful to someone. I was totally flying blind when we were going through all this with our son. None of our close friends has any idea any of this went on with our son, or that he is bipolar. We knew they wouldn't understand. We haven't even told some family members that we don't see very often. It just isn't necessary and it saves a lot of explanation.
It's unfortunate that there is still such a stigma attached to any type of mental illness that it causes me to feel this way, but it's just a fact of life.
Does your son understand his use of drugs? Is this a peer thing -- meaning the friends he hangs out with are into this sort of thing? I will be interested in hearing how his appointment goes tomorrow. Will this be your husband's first time to go along?
Hope ~ Thanks for clarifying what you meant. I was interpreting your words on a slightly different level!! Of course you are eager for him to get back to his life. I think structure is so important, and it's hard to maintain any of that when he doesn't go to school, etc. I suppose you are in the process of trying to figure out what to do about schooling for the coming semester. I look forward to hearing about what you are thinking. -- just read your latest post so will go on responding here rather than start a new one --
Even though you feel like you're spinning your wheels at the moment, I have a feeling that down the road a ways, you will see that what you're doing now and will do in the near future are like building blocks. While you're in the midst of this, it doesn't seem like anything is being accomplished...but I I bet Zac is actually learning little bits and pieces and when he gets further along, you'll realize that these first steps were necessary to the whole process.
Of course Zac is frustrated, too. He doesn't want his life to be like this either. I'm sure he alternately feels anger, shame, hopelessness and a feeling of everything being out of his control. I really hope the new therapist will have a fresh outlook that Zac will respond to.
I share your concerns about putting him in a residential treatment program. I hope the therapist can provide guidance on this, too. However, your relationship with him may be too short to be too helpful for this coming semester. Are you able to talk about this with Zac? Does he have a firm opinion about how he'd like to proceed? What does he think would help him? Or does he not care at this point?
I think you do want to watch carefully for a recurrence of the drug use. It is common to revert to the substance abuse after being clean or sober for awhile. If he is using, it can increase the chances for rapid cycling, can slow down the rate of recovery and also increases the risk for mixed states and dysphoric mania. And if he starts using again with the same intensity, I suspect it will be harder to quit than it was the first time. It's really important that he understand just how dangerous drug abuse on top of bipolar illness can be.
You haven't talked about your sister's death. Are you doing ok? I really can't imagine everything you've been through the past couple months.
Well my post won't help cheer you up and I apologize for that. We need Goody here to hand out those cyber-hugs and some warm fuzzies!! Hopefully she has had a wonderful trip and Erin has been ok while they've been away.
Take care of yourself while you're worrying about your son.
best,
Tsohl
Jules ~ Thanks for the compliment. I'm always glad when some of my experience is helpful to someone. I was totally flying blind when we were going through all this with our son. None of our close friends has any idea any of this went on with our son, or that he is bipolar. We knew they wouldn't understand. We haven't even told some family members that we don't see very often. It just isn't necessary and it saves a lot of explanation.
It's unfortunate that there is still such a stigma attached to any type of mental illness that it causes me to feel this way, but it's just a fact of life.
Does your son understand his use of drugs? Is this a peer thing -- meaning the friends he hangs out with are into this sort of thing? I will be interested in hearing how his appointment goes tomorrow. Will this be your husband's first time to go along?
Hope ~ Thanks for clarifying what you meant. I was interpreting your words on a slightly different level!! Of course you are eager for him to get back to his life. I think structure is so important, and it's hard to maintain any of that when he doesn't go to school, etc. I suppose you are in the process of trying to figure out what to do about schooling for the coming semester. I look forward to hearing about what you are thinking. -- just read your latest post so will go on responding here rather than start a new one --
Even though you feel like you're spinning your wheels at the moment, I have a feeling that down the road a ways, you will see that what you're doing now and will do in the near future are like building blocks. While you're in the midst of this, it doesn't seem like anything is being accomplished...but I I bet Zac is actually learning little bits and pieces and when he gets further along, you'll realize that these first steps were necessary to the whole process.
Of course Zac is frustrated, too. He doesn't want his life to be like this either. I'm sure he alternately feels anger, shame, hopelessness and a feeling of everything being out of his control. I really hope the new therapist will have a fresh outlook that Zac will respond to.
I share your concerns about putting him in a residential treatment program. I hope the therapist can provide guidance on this, too. However, your relationship with him may be too short to be too helpful for this coming semester. Are you able to talk about this with Zac? Does he have a firm opinion about how he'd like to proceed? What does he think would help him? Or does he not care at this point?
I think you do want to watch carefully for a recurrence of the drug use. It is common to revert to the substance abuse after being clean or sober for awhile. If he is using, it can increase the chances for rapid cycling, can slow down the rate of recovery and also increases the risk for mixed states and dysphoric mania. And if he starts using again with the same intensity, I suspect it will be harder to quit than it was the first time. It's really important that he understand just how dangerous drug abuse on top of bipolar illness can be.
You haven't talked about your sister's death. Are you doing ok? I really can't imagine everything you've been through the past couple months.
Well my post won't help cheer you up and I apologize for that. We need Goody here to hand out those cyber-hugs and some warm fuzzies!! Hopefully she has had a wonderful trip and Erin has been ok while they've been away.
Take care of yourself while you're worrying about your son.
best,
Tsohl
jules3
12-14-2006, 11:02 PM
Ts, he had his appt. tonite with his pdoc and his dad..my husband said it went well..we have been there together (the 3 of us) in the past...This was the first time just him and his dad. My heart just breaks for this kid because i know hes trying now. He explained to the doctor that most of his "friends " use drugs and drink and he knows how they influence him..And, we question him whenever he leaves the house..and the doc explained to him that he has to gain some trust back with us..and its not going to be overnight, its going to take some time. He did tell the doc that he has alot of anxiety and wants something for it like klonopin or xanax. Doc basically told him he wont give him those anymore because he abused them...so, im happy with that..He seems to be doing well on his seroquel and effexor..So, right now thats all hes on.
I do understand that its hard to be 20 years old in this day and age..i mean im only 43 ,but i was mature at his age.i got married at 21..had him at 23.
my mom told me that her dads (my grandfather) brother lived his whole life in a mental institution..he would be in his 90"s now if he was alive..you never heard the term BIPOLAR then.. But,he probably was. Does that sound so far fetched that he could have inherited this from him? my grandfather and my mom and me have occasionally suffered from depression! Anyway, we do live one day at a time..you are right some days its one hour at a time in this house...but, for tonite all is well!! I thank you so much for your support..I cant really talk to my friends about this,it is so hard sometimes..
I do understand that its hard to be 20 years old in this day and age..i mean im only 43 ,but i was mature at his age.i got married at 21..had him at 23.
my mom told me that her dads (my grandfather) brother lived his whole life in a mental institution..he would be in his 90"s now if he was alive..you never heard the term BIPOLAR then.. But,he probably was. Does that sound so far fetched that he could have inherited this from him? my grandfather and my mom and me have occasionally suffered from depression! Anyway, we do live one day at a time..you are right some days its one hour at a time in this house...but, for tonite all is well!! I thank you so much for your support..I cant really talk to my friends about this,it is so hard sometimes..
langlee
12-15-2006, 12:14 AM
Jules- It sounds like your son is starting to acknowledge the bipolar. That's a good thing. I think it will go a long way to his adapting. It sounds like the meds are beginning to work. Good for him (and you!)
Tsohl- I am definitely not looking into residential until I get a better handle on things with this tdoc. He is very knowledgable and Zac loves him. His son was valedictorian of his private high school and had his first major bipolar episode freshman year. Did heavy, heavy drug use and basically fried his brain (the tdoc's description) He's a real no-nonesense guy and I'm hoping that he will be able to make Zac understand the severity of the drug use. For now, I am still hoping that a better med regime will help Zac think more clearly. Zac said this regimen is better, but it still needs tweaking. The tdoc gave recommendations based on his experience and knowledge and we go to the pdoc tomorrow.
Zac feels very strongly that he does not want to go to a residential program and in NJ it has to be voluntary. I am also talking to educational consultants. Zac doesn't even want a therapeutic school (emotional growth). He is hoping to get back to a "regular" life in a school he likes better and is hoping to learn to manage the bipolar and the resulting behaviors. Zac's biggest problem is that he is both too mature and too immature for his age. When he's thinking clearly, he is able to understand the implications of the behavior and wants to get on with his ife. When he is not, his judgement is completely off and he thinks nothing will hurt him. Part typical teen, part grandiose, part defiant, part manic. We are looking to capitilize on the clear thinking as much as possible.
My husband is having an extremely difficult time with this. He wants to move forward and gets frustrated when it seems like we are taking two steps back. I talked to the tdoc about this today because I know it is a road paved with very small steps and we can't let every setback be earth-shattering. But I understand the frustration, too, because all of us want this to in a better place.
Thanks for asking about my sister. Honestly, I've had no time to grieve, but I find myself getting teary-eyed everyday (not like me at all). The enormity of loss this year is overwhelming, but I can't give in to it because I have to be clear-headed for my son. He thanked me the other day for all I am doing to try to help him find his way and that is what gives me strength. He has been the light of my life since the day he was born and I will not rest until I know that he's more at peace. My sister was very supportive once she knew about his problems and it's what she would want. And my mother would have been heartsick to think that her "joy boy" was struggling so. I believe they are both with me in this journey and I feel their presence everyday.
It was my mother's death (she and Zac were very, very close) that catapulted his downward spiral and my sister's death that landed him in-patient, so I'm hoping that once the trauma of this year is over, coupled with more aggressive meds and the realization that we all survived the heartache and the loss will help Zac get back on his feet.
I am sorry to be so needy right now, but I am overwhelmed. Once I get a little more levelheaded, I promise not to be so self-centered.
Thanks,
Hope
Tsohl- I am definitely not looking into residential until I get a better handle on things with this tdoc. He is very knowledgable and Zac loves him. His son was valedictorian of his private high school and had his first major bipolar episode freshman year. Did heavy, heavy drug use and basically fried his brain (the tdoc's description) He's a real no-nonesense guy and I'm hoping that he will be able to make Zac understand the severity of the drug use. For now, I am still hoping that a better med regime will help Zac think more clearly. Zac said this regimen is better, but it still needs tweaking. The tdoc gave recommendations based on his experience and knowledge and we go to the pdoc tomorrow.
Zac feels very strongly that he does not want to go to a residential program and in NJ it has to be voluntary. I am also talking to educational consultants. Zac doesn't even want a therapeutic school (emotional growth). He is hoping to get back to a "regular" life in a school he likes better and is hoping to learn to manage the bipolar and the resulting behaviors. Zac's biggest problem is that he is both too mature and too immature for his age. When he's thinking clearly, he is able to understand the implications of the behavior and wants to get on with his ife. When he is not, his judgement is completely off and he thinks nothing will hurt him. Part typical teen, part grandiose, part defiant, part manic. We are looking to capitilize on the clear thinking as much as possible.
My husband is having an extremely difficult time with this. He wants to move forward and gets frustrated when it seems like we are taking two steps back. I talked to the tdoc about this today because I know it is a road paved with very small steps and we can't let every setback be earth-shattering. But I understand the frustration, too, because all of us want this to in a better place.
Thanks for asking about my sister. Honestly, I've had no time to grieve, but I find myself getting teary-eyed everyday (not like me at all). The enormity of loss this year is overwhelming, but I can't give in to it because I have to be clear-headed for my son. He thanked me the other day for all I am doing to try to help him find his way and that is what gives me strength. He has been the light of my life since the day he was born and I will not rest until I know that he's more at peace. My sister was very supportive once she knew about his problems and it's what she would want. And my mother would have been heartsick to think that her "joy boy" was struggling so. I believe they are both with me in this journey and I feel their presence everyday.
It was my mother's death (she and Zac were very, very close) that catapulted his downward spiral and my sister's death that landed him in-patient, so I'm hoping that once the trauma of this year is over, coupled with more aggressive meds and the realization that we all survived the heartache and the loss will help Zac get back on his feet.
I am sorry to be so needy right now, but I am overwhelmed. Once I get a little more levelheaded, I promise not to be so self-centered.
Thanks,
Hope
tsohl
12-15-2006, 01:32 AM
Oh Hope!! I don't know that I could cope with everything you've been through. You are not needy. I read your warm posts on other threads where you are reaching out and offering support to others, even as you are feeling really awful yourself.
I agree with you totally about the schooling. With the meds, things CAN turn around in several weeks' time, and hopefully that will happen soon for Zac. It sounds like he will be compliant in taking meds, since he seems to want to feel better. That will be a big help to you if that is the case. I think you've said that Zac didn't like the high school he's supposed to go to --
are there any smaller, private schools in your area that might appeal to him? I would think a fresh start might be in order. Of course the private school will not be equipped with all the social services that a public school will have, but it would be more accomodating in treating Zac more individually, and you'd have a more personal relationship with the teachers and administrators.
Maybe Zac could start out for one semester by taking a partial load to see how he handles the stress. Have the consultants been helpful?
Regarding the anxiety, would Zac try some yoga classes or something along that order? Moderate exercise would be good for him and provide some release. My son's program in Florida included yoga and he really liked it. Also you could try some acupuncture if you could find a good practioneer that didn't make you sign up for a whole course of treatment. It has a very calming effect and also can help with some addictive behaviors.
Did we talk about Zac going to AA or NA? We were just amazed at how young some of the people were at the one location where our son went--he was very negative about any 12-step program as he'd attended a couple meetings while away at college and thought it was a bunch of crap, but for some reason, this time something clicked. He met a couple people near his age who are still friends today and through them he met a new group of friends who did things that didn't involve alcohol or drugs. Jules, this might be something for you to suggest to your son, too. He doesn't attend meetings any more, but the friends still hang out together. Again, this is just a way to learn some new coping skills...and half the people there were bipolar.
Hope, please let us know how it goes tomorrow. I feel like you're on the right path now. Good night. Tsohl
I agree with you totally about the schooling. With the meds, things CAN turn around in several weeks' time, and hopefully that will happen soon for Zac. It sounds like he will be compliant in taking meds, since he seems to want to feel better. That will be a big help to you if that is the case. I think you've said that Zac didn't like the high school he's supposed to go to --
are there any smaller, private schools in your area that might appeal to him? I would think a fresh start might be in order. Of course the private school will not be equipped with all the social services that a public school will have, but it would be more accomodating in treating Zac more individually, and you'd have a more personal relationship with the teachers and administrators.
Maybe Zac could start out for one semester by taking a partial load to see how he handles the stress. Have the consultants been helpful?
Regarding the anxiety, would Zac try some yoga classes or something along that order? Moderate exercise would be good for him and provide some release. My son's program in Florida included yoga and he really liked it. Also you could try some acupuncture if you could find a good practioneer that didn't make you sign up for a whole course of treatment. It has a very calming effect and also can help with some addictive behaviors.
Did we talk about Zac going to AA or NA? We were just amazed at how young some of the people were at the one location where our son went--he was very negative about any 12-step program as he'd attended a couple meetings while away at college and thought it was a bunch of crap, but for some reason, this time something clicked. He met a couple people near his age who are still friends today and through them he met a new group of friends who did things that didn't involve alcohol or drugs. Jules, this might be something for you to suggest to your son, too. He doesn't attend meetings any more, but the friends still hang out together. Again, this is just a way to learn some new coping skills...and half the people there were bipolar.
Hope, please let us know how it goes tomorrow. I feel like you're on the right path now. Good night. Tsohl
jules3
12-15-2006, 08:45 AM
HOPE, self centered, are you nuts? you are so not self-centered...you will see someday zac will come to realize how much you love him and are proud of every step he takes towards his recovery..He sounds alot like my son too immature at times and too mature other times..you have to see it to believe it.!
My son would never go for the yoga or any kind of meetings at this point , hes just not ready..but thanks anyway TS.
My husband sounds like your husband hope. he always says..Everyday is an adventure. But hes not being funny!
My son would never go for the yoga or any kind of meetings at this point , hes just not ready..but thanks anyway TS.
My husband sounds like your husband hope. he always says..Everyday is an adventure. But hes not being funny!
langlee
12-15-2006, 07:12 PM
You are both so wonderful! Thank you so much.
Today was a better day. We went to the pdoc and he adjusted Zac's meds again, but feels like we are making progress. Zac asked him about something for ADHD and he had been hesitant before, but he is willing to try. When he and I first talked about the ADHD he did not feel Zac had it, although he is scoring high now on the Connors scale. I reminded the pdoc that Zac always had problems sitting still (he and the shcool nurses have always had special relationships), but in elementary school the teachers thought it was because he was so bright. He never had behavior issues. He also never needed much sleep and even in kindergarten was going to bed at 10:00. We used to argue about it until I asked his teacher if he was tired in school and she said, "NEVER!".
The good news is that Zac was asking for the ADHD meds because he is realizing that he really needs to get alot of schoolwork done in January and wants to give himself every chance of success. That's a good sign because it's the first time that Zac seems to really be focusing on the future again.
Zac has tried therapeutic yoga and was resistant at first, but now loves it. He finds it very helpful.
Tsohl and Jules, our sons sound very similar in many ways. Zac also hated the idea of NA meetings. He went to a few last year as part of the drug rehab and never connected, felt like he didn't need them, was smarter than that, etc. We have been trying to convince him to go because we think it would be helpful to find new people to connect with and to see that others have succeeded. He finally went to one grudgingly on Wednesday night in our town and he loved it! It was a men's only group and there were about 70 men there of all ages. Several were also bipolar. Tonight he went to Starbucks with someone he met there. He is feeling very encouraged.
Jules, I know how resistant Zac was to going to NA and I can understand why your son doesn't want to go. However, if he finds the right group, he may be as surprised as Zac and Tsohl's son were to find new friends there - friends who understand what it's like to fight the demons of drugs or alcohol.
So, tonight I feel more hopeful. I am so glad to have both of you. Have a great night!
Love,
Hope
Today was a better day. We went to the pdoc and he adjusted Zac's meds again, but feels like we are making progress. Zac asked him about something for ADHD and he had been hesitant before, but he is willing to try. When he and I first talked about the ADHD he did not feel Zac had it, although he is scoring high now on the Connors scale. I reminded the pdoc that Zac always had problems sitting still (he and the shcool nurses have always had special relationships), but in elementary school the teachers thought it was because he was so bright. He never had behavior issues. He also never needed much sleep and even in kindergarten was going to bed at 10:00. We used to argue about it until I asked his teacher if he was tired in school and she said, "NEVER!".
The good news is that Zac was asking for the ADHD meds because he is realizing that he really needs to get alot of schoolwork done in January and wants to give himself every chance of success. That's a good sign because it's the first time that Zac seems to really be focusing on the future again.
Zac has tried therapeutic yoga and was resistant at first, but now loves it. He finds it very helpful.
Tsohl and Jules, our sons sound very similar in many ways. Zac also hated the idea of NA meetings. He went to a few last year as part of the drug rehab and never connected, felt like he didn't need them, was smarter than that, etc. We have been trying to convince him to go because we think it would be helpful to find new people to connect with and to see that others have succeeded. He finally went to one grudgingly on Wednesday night in our town and he loved it! It was a men's only group and there were about 70 men there of all ages. Several were also bipolar. Tonight he went to Starbucks with someone he met there. He is feeling very encouraged.
Jules, I know how resistant Zac was to going to NA and I can understand why your son doesn't want to go. However, if he finds the right group, he may be as surprised as Zac and Tsohl's son were to find new friends there - friends who understand what it's like to fight the demons of drugs or alcohol.
So, tonight I feel more hopeful. I am so glad to have both of you. Have a great night!
Love,
Hope
jules3
12-15-2006, 07:15 PM
Hope, thats all we can ask for 1 peaceful day at a time..
langlee
12-15-2006, 07:17 PM
I forgot to mention that I gave the pdoc an assignment and told him we all have to think of constructive recommendations to give Zac to manage severe stress since those have been the worst times for him. I also had him deliver the zero tolerance message again about the drugs and alcohol and why it's so important for Zac.
My husband and I also have an appointment together with the new tdoc so we can all be on the same page.
At least today I feel like we are making progress. Yesterday my husband was so desolate and disgusted and angry that I couldn't think clearly. Today he is feeling more optimistic again.
It's tough living with two people whose moods swing so severely. No wonder I'm breaking out in rashes! (another story for another day, but my body does seem to be rebelling and now I'm discovering that derms also deal in voodoo science - I have been prescribed 7 different topical treatments in 7 days!)
Love,
Hope
My husband and I also have an appointment together with the new tdoc so we can all be on the same page.
At least today I feel like we are making progress. Yesterday my husband was so desolate and disgusted and angry that I couldn't think clearly. Today he is feeling more optimistic again.
It's tough living with two people whose moods swing so severely. No wonder I'm breaking out in rashes! (another story for another day, but my body does seem to be rebelling and now I'm discovering that derms also deal in voodoo science - I have been prescribed 7 different topical treatments in 7 days!)
Love,
Hope
jules3
12-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Hope, we sound so much alike.i am so into the zero tolerance thing here too...My son needs to manage his anxiety somehow..read my post about medications...help me out. anyway, the rash.. would you believe i actually got shingles from the stress of all this..43 yrs old with shingles...that was a nightmare..stress can do amazing nasty things to your body.
langlee
12-15-2006, 07:41 PM
We do sound so much alike, Jules. Shingles! Yikes! Maybe I should be happy with my creeping rashes!
I responded to your post about the meds. I'd be happy to answer more questions. Ask away!
Hope
I responded to your post about the meds. I'd be happy to answer more questions. Ask away!
Hope
tsohl
12-15-2006, 08:56 PM
Hello ladies,
Stress always finds a way to come out, in some form or another. Shingles are really painful. I hope you have a case that won't linger. And Hope, maybe you should find a yoga class also! But it's good to hear you in a more chipper mood this evening.
I am delighted that your appointment went well. It sounds like you have a fairly good relationship with this doc. Does he work in conjunction with the new tdoc that you like so much? I'm glad Zac was willing to go to the NA meeting. About half the people at my son's group had drug issues rather than with alcohol, and were bipolar. I think it is really helpful to get acquainted with others who have bipolarity issues. Our son had friends from 7th grade on who were diagnosed bipolar, so it was always something he was familiar with. He did not have to go through denial when he himself was diagnosed.
I can remember all those adjustments of medications. Every month when my son would go to the pdoc, at least at the beginning, I would think "this will be the month when he finds the right meds." I thought there would be some magic pill that would click and suddenly my son would be back to the way he was in high school. Of course the falicy of this was that I didn't actually know what he was going through in high school as he was so good at covering. But I didn't know this until he had his big episode almost a year after graduating from college. Month after month he would have his meds changed and after waiting a couple weeks, I'd realize that the changes hadn't made much of a difference. But while he was going through this, he was also attending those AA meetings and making little changes in his life...baby steps, baby steps. It was a very slow process....Finally the meds that work for him were found and he's slowly getting his life back on track. Now he needs to figure out what kind of occupation to pursue ~ one that uses his intelligence without being overly stressful and that won't drive him crazy!! But as you can see, this all takes time. You have to become very patient and always remain positive and hopeful.
Hopefully tomorrow will be an even better day for you and your families.
best regards, Tsohl
Stress always finds a way to come out, in some form or another. Shingles are really painful. I hope you have a case that won't linger. And Hope, maybe you should find a yoga class also! But it's good to hear you in a more chipper mood this evening.
I am delighted that your appointment went well. It sounds like you have a fairly good relationship with this doc. Does he work in conjunction with the new tdoc that you like so much? I'm glad Zac was willing to go to the NA meeting. About half the people at my son's group had drug issues rather than with alcohol, and were bipolar. I think it is really helpful to get acquainted with others who have bipolarity issues. Our son had friends from 7th grade on who were diagnosed bipolar, so it was always something he was familiar with. He did not have to go through denial when he himself was diagnosed.
I can remember all those adjustments of medications. Every month when my son would go to the pdoc, at least at the beginning, I would think "this will be the month when he finds the right meds." I thought there would be some magic pill that would click and suddenly my son would be back to the way he was in high school. Of course the falicy of this was that I didn't actually know what he was going through in high school as he was so good at covering. But I didn't know this until he had his big episode almost a year after graduating from college. Month after month he would have his meds changed and after waiting a couple weeks, I'd realize that the changes hadn't made much of a difference. But while he was going through this, he was also attending those AA meetings and making little changes in his life...baby steps, baby steps. It was a very slow process....Finally the meds that work for him were found and he's slowly getting his life back on track. Now he needs to figure out what kind of occupation to pursue ~ one that uses his intelligence without being overly stressful and that won't drive him crazy!! But as you can see, this all takes time. You have to become very patient and always remain positive and hopeful.
Hopefully tomorrow will be an even better day for you and your families.
best regards, Tsohl
jules3
12-16-2006, 12:04 PM
Shingles are going away, but the pain does linger and it could for weeks..but its much better...it was on my chest area going underarm towards my back...ugh!