conan1017
11-18-2006, 01:33 AM
A recent thread considering natural medicines/therapies has prompted me to highlight a few items from my reading as a catalyst for further discussion. As I said in that thread, I cannot advise anyone in this area but I can share what information, sources and my perspective on my wife’s treatment. Neither am I an authority on cancer or natural medicines, but I can read, reason and apply formal logic. My primary source is:
An Alternative Medicine Definitive Guide to Cancer
(W. John Diamond, MD, W. Lee Cowden, MD and Burton Goldberg) -37 top physicians explain their explain their proven, safe, non-toxic and successful treatments)
Future Medicine Publishing, Inc; 1997, Tiburon, CA
Unfortunately the topic at hand can be as confusing as it is controversial. Even so, consider a quote from chapter 26 of “Alternatine Medicine…” in regards to the Cancer industry:
By definition, a profit oriented pharmaceutical company in not going to pursue non-patentable products such as laetrile, maitake mushroom and other alternative medicines, because they cannot be registered as patented drugs and thus cannot be controlled in the marketplace (p.662) (emphasis mine)
(Might I add, for the same reason we are unlikely to see the use of alternative medicines in clinical trials and thus the same will likely not be considered along with standard treatments.) What you can expect from this book is the medical opinions, basic treatment plans and success stories from 37 physicians concerning specific cancers, not just lung. With that said, there are only 3 lung cancer success stories in the entire book (I expect there is others). The physician’s credentials, address, fax, phone, etc. are provided. For example: Emanuel Revici, MD (Revici Therapy) offers what he calls “a biologically guided, non-toxic, true chemo therapy.” If brief, Revici claims: “Cancer results when the body’s defense system is arrested in the lipidic phase… When this occurs either fatty acids or sterols are produced in excessive quantities and this, in turn, promotes the development of cancer.” (p.309)(this makes sense to me in respect to my limited knowledge of microbiology). In his chapter, his treatment claims to have reversed an advanced stage of adenocarcinoma of the lung in 5 years for a 62 year old woman (clear for 6 years) as well as in colon, bone and brain cancers.
As for my wife Patsy (43), she has never been a smoker and has stage IV NSCLC which entails a semi-obstructive (was completely obstructive) tumor in the primary lobe of her left lung, a small tumor in the bronchial of her right lung, 2 liver mets and 1 in the bone (head). I started her on some supplements while she was doing radiation, prior to chemo. However, it was not until she started chemo that we saw any noticeable difference in her scans, symptoms of the post-obstructive pneumonia she was suffering with at the time.
At the moment, we plan to continue with the current chemo line and a modest supplement regimen which includes a multi-vitamin in addition to vitamin C & vitamin A, Echinacea-Goldeseal, Max 3 immune/killer cell booster (cat’s claw, maitake mushroom, IP-6 and inositol) and Bromelain (enzymes from pineapple) and an amino acid nutritional shake with a fatty acid oil blend. I can’t say that for certain “what” if any of these has been effective, but we are getting some positive results. My current regimen is an attempt to boost her defenses and healing process without conflicting with chemo therapy –so I intend to move slowly and with caution. There are also a few supplements that I have read a lot of interesting things about but haven’t yet tried like B-17, apple pectin and shark cartilage.
In the event that we arrive at the place where conventional treatments are no longer effective for whatever reason, I hope to go strictly to a natural treatment plan that has been successful under similar circumstances (keeping in mind all cancers and people are different). I am certainly not a physician or nutritionist, but I am simply giving my best effort in giving my wife every opportunity to beat what are insurmountable odds and hope the same for everyone here (which includes more than just medicine).
No matter what the outcome or courses we choose, let all we do be motivated by our love for our family and one another. I personally respect the opinions and whatever treatment decisions others make because I don’t have hope in “one-size fits all” approaches, neither would I say that my current view is fixed or best. But I do believe this topic merits our consideration and hope that others may contribute what they have learned, tried or experienced in some detail.
Thanks for reading and God Bless,
conan
An Alternative Medicine Definitive Guide to Cancer
(W. John Diamond, MD, W. Lee Cowden, MD and Burton Goldberg) -37 top physicians explain their explain their proven, safe, non-toxic and successful treatments)
Future Medicine Publishing, Inc; 1997, Tiburon, CA
Unfortunately the topic at hand can be as confusing as it is controversial. Even so, consider a quote from chapter 26 of “Alternatine Medicine…” in regards to the Cancer industry:
By definition, a profit oriented pharmaceutical company in not going to pursue non-patentable products such as laetrile, maitake mushroom and other alternative medicines, because they cannot be registered as patented drugs and thus cannot be controlled in the marketplace (p.662) (emphasis mine)
(Might I add, for the same reason we are unlikely to see the use of alternative medicines in clinical trials and thus the same will likely not be considered along with standard treatments.) What you can expect from this book is the medical opinions, basic treatment plans and success stories from 37 physicians concerning specific cancers, not just lung. With that said, there are only 3 lung cancer success stories in the entire book (I expect there is others). The physician’s credentials, address, fax, phone, etc. are provided. For example: Emanuel Revici, MD (Revici Therapy) offers what he calls “a biologically guided, non-toxic, true chemo therapy.” If brief, Revici claims: “Cancer results when the body’s defense system is arrested in the lipidic phase… When this occurs either fatty acids or sterols are produced in excessive quantities and this, in turn, promotes the development of cancer.” (p.309)(this makes sense to me in respect to my limited knowledge of microbiology). In his chapter, his treatment claims to have reversed an advanced stage of adenocarcinoma of the lung in 5 years for a 62 year old woman (clear for 6 years) as well as in colon, bone and brain cancers.
As for my wife Patsy (43), she has never been a smoker and has stage IV NSCLC which entails a semi-obstructive (was completely obstructive) tumor in the primary lobe of her left lung, a small tumor in the bronchial of her right lung, 2 liver mets and 1 in the bone (head). I started her on some supplements while she was doing radiation, prior to chemo. However, it was not until she started chemo that we saw any noticeable difference in her scans, symptoms of the post-obstructive pneumonia she was suffering with at the time.
At the moment, we plan to continue with the current chemo line and a modest supplement regimen which includes a multi-vitamin in addition to vitamin C & vitamin A, Echinacea-Goldeseal, Max 3 immune/killer cell booster (cat’s claw, maitake mushroom, IP-6 and inositol) and Bromelain (enzymes from pineapple) and an amino acid nutritional shake with a fatty acid oil blend. I can’t say that for certain “what” if any of these has been effective, but we are getting some positive results. My current regimen is an attempt to boost her defenses and healing process without conflicting with chemo therapy –so I intend to move slowly and with caution. There are also a few supplements that I have read a lot of interesting things about but haven’t yet tried like B-17, apple pectin and shark cartilage.
In the event that we arrive at the place where conventional treatments are no longer effective for whatever reason, I hope to go strictly to a natural treatment plan that has been successful under similar circumstances (keeping in mind all cancers and people are different). I am certainly not a physician or nutritionist, but I am simply giving my best effort in giving my wife every opportunity to beat what are insurmountable odds and hope the same for everyone here (which includes more than just medicine).
No matter what the outcome or courses we choose, let all we do be motivated by our love for our family and one another. I personally respect the opinions and whatever treatment decisions others make because I don’t have hope in “one-size fits all” approaches, neither would I say that my current view is fixed or best. But I do believe this topic merits our consideration and hope that others may contribute what they have learned, tried or experienced in some detail.
Thanks for reading and God Bless,
conan
Sponsor
Kimslos
11-18-2006, 02:13 PM
Conan,
Thanks for sharing with all of us...appreciate you taking the time. Oh, thought I would share this with you...In July/August of 2001 my FIL was going thru radiation on the brain so we did research and my husband bought some Bovine pills and he took them during radiation which reduced the side effects of the brain radiation and oddly enough did not lose his hair. The doctors were confused why he was not losing his hair during brain radiation, but then my FIL could no longer swallow pills and within about 5 days his hair finally started falling out. Given the condition of my FIL it was pointless for him to go thru brain radiation given his diagnosis, but my MIL (don't blame her) begged them to do anything to try to save him for just a bit. After he died my husband and I realized how wrong it was to put him thru that and the two brain surgeries, but it was not our decision to make. Long story and sad one and such a good man gone, but he left me wonderful memories and my children too and he loved me like I was his daughter. (too bad my MIL is not the same sweet person as he was)
Anyway, thought I would share the Bovine experience and know everyone responds differntly. Sorry to have gone on, but got me going about my FIL and miss him dealry.
Kim
Thanks for sharing with all of us...appreciate you taking the time. Oh, thought I would share this with you...In July/August of 2001 my FIL was going thru radiation on the brain so we did research and my husband bought some Bovine pills and he took them during radiation which reduced the side effects of the brain radiation and oddly enough did not lose his hair. The doctors were confused why he was not losing his hair during brain radiation, but then my FIL could no longer swallow pills and within about 5 days his hair finally started falling out. Given the condition of my FIL it was pointless for him to go thru brain radiation given his diagnosis, but my MIL (don't blame her) begged them to do anything to try to save him for just a bit. After he died my husband and I realized how wrong it was to put him thru that and the two brain surgeries, but it was not our decision to make. Long story and sad one and such a good man gone, but he left me wonderful memories and my children too and he loved me like I was his daughter. (too bad my MIL is not the same sweet person as he was)
Anyway, thought I would share the Bovine experience and know everyone responds differntly. Sorry to have gone on, but got me going about my FIL and miss him dealry.
Kim
conan1017
11-22-2006, 08:19 AM
Kim-
Thanks for sharing and I think you make a good point. Thats basically what I'm alluding to ...that supplements might be needful when getting conventional treatment. I played golf with a guy about 7 years ago who had cancer and he told his Onc he was done with conventional treatments and was going all natural. He died 5 months later. My thoughts are that advanced and aggresive cancer is too formidable a foe for our bodies natural defenses, no matter how good. I truly believe that in our case, chemo is that necessary evil but that we can offset chemo's side effects by boosting the bodies natural defense and healing processes. ...or maybe I'm just pipe dreamimg :confused: .
Still praying for you, Stan and the boys,
conan
Thanks for sharing and I think you make a good point. Thats basically what I'm alluding to ...that supplements might be needful when getting conventional treatment. I played golf with a guy about 7 years ago who had cancer and he told his Onc he was done with conventional treatments and was going all natural. He died 5 months later. My thoughts are that advanced and aggresive cancer is too formidable a foe for our bodies natural defenses, no matter how good. I truly believe that in our case, chemo is that necessary evil but that we can offset chemo's side effects by boosting the bodies natural defense and healing processes. ...or maybe I'm just pipe dreamimg :confused: .
Still praying for you, Stan and the boys,
conan
kris114
11-22-2006, 02:08 PM
You may also want to look into melatonin, another herbal supplement, discussed on the Sloan Kettering web site:
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69298.cfm
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69298.cfm
conan1017
11-22-2006, 06:06 PM
kris-
I sure am glad you posted that link, it is my favorite online source.
I when I started reading on supplements I made a list of supplements along with notes from the sources. Melatonin was on list, but I'm not sure why I never tried it other than I didn't want to try too much at once and it was a long list. In have it my notes that Melatonin works even better when combined with Interluekin-2 (IL-2). I think you have rekindled my interest Melatonin.
conan
I sure am glad you posted that link, it is my favorite online source.
I when I started reading on supplements I made a list of supplements along with notes from the sources. Melatonin was on list, but I'm not sure why I never tried it other than I didn't want to try too much at once and it was a long list. In have it my notes that Melatonin works even better when combined with Interluekin-2 (IL-2). I think you have rekindled my interest Melatonin.
conan
kris114
11-24-2006, 01:24 PM
Conan, if you are checking out the Sloan Kettering web site, Dr. William Pao from Sloan Kettering is a leading researcher in trying to determine how genetic mutations in certain lung cancers respond to the Tarceva drug. He and his medical team have conducting promising research studies linking certain characteristics (non-smokers, women, NSCLC) in patients who respond more favorably to Tarceva (also called erlotonib). I will be praying for your wife's healing. Kris
rockie
11-24-2006, 10:33 PM
Conan, my Bud was a strong person physically, but ultimately, the cancer was too strong and in the end, it took a lot to take him down. What a sad, sad ending to such a fighter, a rock. He tried the vitamins, the antioxidants, etc etc...and he lived two full years since first signs of illness. We all know that when we actually have "signs" of lung cancer, things are progressed. So, he exceeded all expectations, hopes, wishes....He did good. We looked at alternatives, but we knew based on my history of vitamin and mineral therapy for overall health, that his chances were slim. YET, he lived another year above expectation. That was OUR MIRACLE. The extra doses of minerals and vitamins helped him cope and keep strength. Maybe. Who knows at this point, all I can share with you is our results. He was healthy as a horse until he came down with cancer. He never swallowed even a vitamin until his DX...
Please continue doing for yourself or your loved one everything that can possibly be done. What can it hurt?
I thank you for listening to me ramble on. But we tried, and ultimately IT was too strong for us.
Thank you for listening....love, prayers, peace and healing
Jan
Please continue doing for yourself or your loved one everything that can possibly be done. What can it hurt?
I thank you for listening to me ramble on. But we tried, and ultimately IT was too strong for us.
Thank you for listening....love, prayers, peace and healing
Jan
conan1017
11-25-2006, 12:05 AM
Kris-
About 8 weeks ago I listened to a series of lectures on Sloan Kettering and I believe Dr. Pao was the one who spoke on medical oncology. He spent a considerable amount of time on Tarveva and spoke of the genetic testing you mentioned and said that if one tested beneficially then Tarceva could be given in the first line. When I asked our oncolgist, he said it was controversial. But I am absoultely not going to settle for less than getting Tarceva in the second line. We must at least try.
Jan-
It sure is good to see you. I have prayed for you and thought of you often since Bud passed. You know, every night when I go to bed I am faced with the harsh reality of Patsy's condition. This is largely why I have trouble getting to sleep. I know I need to rest and I want to. But at the end of the day I need to feel that I am giving her the best nurture and care I can ...and that her oncologists are giving the her the best care.
I question everything ....that is why I started this thread. I feel like it is good to see things through the eyes of others and through thier experiences ....so thanks for sharing yours. I appreciate your perspective and I think you are right ...the cancer is too often too strong. However, it sounds like cancer was not strong enough to conquer Bud's spirit ...and perhaps Bud's spirit was the best "supplement" of all. As I said earlier, medicines, supplements, etc., are only one way to fight.
Thanks again for stopping in. I hope you have begun to heal as well. Know that Bud did have his victory of cancer as he is now healed. May God bless you and be your comforter.
conan
I don't know
About 8 weeks ago I listened to a series of lectures on Sloan Kettering and I believe Dr. Pao was the one who spoke on medical oncology. He spent a considerable amount of time on Tarveva and spoke of the genetic testing you mentioned and said that if one tested beneficially then Tarceva could be given in the first line. When I asked our oncolgist, he said it was controversial. But I am absoultely not going to settle for less than getting Tarceva in the second line. We must at least try.
Jan-
It sure is good to see you. I have prayed for you and thought of you often since Bud passed. You know, every night when I go to bed I am faced with the harsh reality of Patsy's condition. This is largely why I have trouble getting to sleep. I know I need to rest and I want to. But at the end of the day I need to feel that I am giving her the best nurture and care I can ...and that her oncologists are giving the her the best care.
I question everything ....that is why I started this thread. I feel like it is good to see things through the eyes of others and through thier experiences ....so thanks for sharing yours. I appreciate your perspective and I think you are right ...the cancer is too often too strong. However, it sounds like cancer was not strong enough to conquer Bud's spirit ...and perhaps Bud's spirit was the best "supplement" of all. As I said earlier, medicines, supplements, etc., are only one way to fight.
Thanks again for stopping in. I hope you have begun to heal as well. Know that Bud did have his victory of cancer as he is now healed. May God bless you and be your comforter.
conan
I don't know
mabegb
11-25-2006, 01:09 AM
conan, i like you am searching for many of these answers. 10 years ago when i was first diagnosed with the cancer i had surgery to remove it but refused the chemo and radiation. i spent 6 months seeing a nutritionist who dealt with many other things like chinese herbs , supplements and holistic healing. it was quite a lifestyle change. i ate only organic food. did the juicing and many cleanses . i finally decided to do radiation. i healed so quickly from it and regained all my energy back. i feel if not for the changes i made i would never have bounced back the way i did. also i was cancer free for 9 years. which was almost unheard of with my type of cancer. i fell back into many old habits and became very complacent in my life and wouldn't you know it the cancer returned.
i'am now in the process of making the changes again i need to make hoping for the same result. if i hear of anything different than the things that you already know about i will certainly share. good luck i feel you are really on a good track if nothing else i know it does improve the quality of life we have. lots of prayers for you , patsy and the kids. melissa
i'am now in the process of making the changes again i need to make hoping for the same result. if i hear of anything different than the things that you already know about i will certainly share. good luck i feel you are really on a good track if nothing else i know it does improve the quality of life we have. lots of prayers for you , patsy and the kids. melissa
rockie
11-25-2006, 10:23 AM
I pray for you and Patsy every day. You have the additional challenge of childcare. I am sure though that the kids are a bright spot of the day with their abounding energy and enviable optimism. It must be very tough to care for Patsy and knowing in your heart of hearts that time with her kids may be limited and what time there is, much of it spent sleeping or feeling poorly. It amazes me how tough these fighters are. Like Kim's Stan. He just keeps on ticking like a Timex (like that one, Kim? :) ) He tries his best to participate in outside activities that involve Andrew and Anthony as I am sure your Patsy tries also to do and stay involved in as best as she can. These people are tough. I think us caregivers are also a tough breed. Now that Bud is gone, I have a very tough time figuring out what to do with my time and energy. But energy is also an issue right now. I truly feel like a flat tire. Apathy has set in and it's making working through my grief very tough. It's not really depression, but just a total lack of energy and the desire to get up and get this or that done. The hospice family therapist that meets with me says it's perfectly normal. That I am physically, emotionally and mentally spent. The last two years have taken their toll on me and I won't bounce back as easily as I think I should. Also, the added bonus of being 47 yrs old. So, I am still on my vitamins and am trying to start working out again, but the energy is just not there. She said I should rest, but that's an impossibility. Rest does not come to someone who is attuned to getting up every couple of hours to do meds etc etc, and between the meds, still keeping an ear open for any "odd" sounds or a faint call for help. One learns to live on very very little sleep. But in time I'm sure that will change. It's been almost 3 weeks now and it feels like an eternity since I have seen my Bud. I try to go camping every weekend if the weather permits and being outdoors seems to recharge my batteries better than anything else on earth right now. So Conan, when you hug your Patsy today, give her an extra one from me and let her know I am praying for her and you in my little corner of SW Indiana.
Take care of yourself as best as you can and stay strong. If you need me, I'm here.
Prayers, healing, peace and love
Jan
Take care of yourself as best as you can and stay strong. If you need me, I'm here.
Prayers, healing, peace and love
Jan
conan1017
11-25-2006, 10:46 PM
Melissa-
Yhanks for sharing that with me. I had no idea you had cancer perviously. However I'm not clear about something. Was it the same cancer you now have (nsclc). At any rate, I am praying that you beat it again.
Jan-
I have no doubt you are emotionally and physically spent, but like Bud you are a fighter and you will adjust and bounce back. I think you are going to have to learn how to rest. I’m not sure “keeping busy” is the best way to heal (unless of course you are spending your time here :D ). And I am glad you do …and Kim, such a sweetheart. I am thankful to have found a community of such fine people. You however, are 47 years young and probably have a good bit of life in front of you. I have just come to the realization that life is extremely short and yet, I have a long way to go.
I can only imagine how terribly you miss Bud. I miss Patsy even now, because like you said they spend so much time sleeping and feeling poorly. She was down with chemo from last Sat. to Wed, but thank God, she was better by Thanksgiving …and she ate great. Tonight she came upstairs and got the kids church clothes ready for tomorrow while I gave them a bath, which was encouraging. However, she is in no way strong enough to handle them to do much more.
I hope you are able to do some camping sometime soon. I was just outside and could have stayed out there all night. It is clear, fairly cold and the stars are really bright (perfect atmosphere for clear thinking). I look forward to hearing from you when your batteries are charged. Until then, get rested and fix your eyes on Jesus, because you still have a course to finish and only God knows the plans He has for you.
conan
Yhanks for sharing that with me. I had no idea you had cancer perviously. However I'm not clear about something. Was it the same cancer you now have (nsclc). At any rate, I am praying that you beat it again.
Jan-
I have no doubt you are emotionally and physically spent, but like Bud you are a fighter and you will adjust and bounce back. I think you are going to have to learn how to rest. I’m not sure “keeping busy” is the best way to heal (unless of course you are spending your time here :D ). And I am glad you do …and Kim, such a sweetheart. I am thankful to have found a community of such fine people. You however, are 47 years young and probably have a good bit of life in front of you. I have just come to the realization that life is extremely short and yet, I have a long way to go.
I can only imagine how terribly you miss Bud. I miss Patsy even now, because like you said they spend so much time sleeping and feeling poorly. She was down with chemo from last Sat. to Wed, but thank God, she was better by Thanksgiving …and she ate great. Tonight she came upstairs and got the kids church clothes ready for tomorrow while I gave them a bath, which was encouraging. However, she is in no way strong enough to handle them to do much more.
I hope you are able to do some camping sometime soon. I was just outside and could have stayed out there all night. It is clear, fairly cold and the stars are really bright (perfect atmosphere for clear thinking). I look forward to hearing from you when your batteries are charged. Until then, get rested and fix your eyes on Jesus, because you still have a course to finish and only God knows the plans He has for you.
conan
Kimslos
11-26-2006, 10:17 PM
Hi Conan,
I thought of you during the Holiday hoping all went well with Patsy. She is a remarkable lady, but she certainly has a wonderful husband sticking by her side. It is amazing how much one can push themselves when necessary and you doing more than your share! I am sure Patsy is so proud of you and appreciates all you do for her and the family. We had a nice Thanksgiving other than Stan did not feel well we made the day special for him. We had 10 family/friends over. (yes the MIL was over too) She is a piece of work, but I bit my tongue and moved forward. She always feel the need to control everything from cooking to telling us how to raise our boys. (oh, not to mention the times she has come into our house while we have been on vacaiton and moved things around!) Yes, I finally put my foot down years ago and decided no more housesitting done by her! (thought you would take humor with that one to give you more of an idea what I am up against) Stan had a very tough day on Thanksgiving, but smiled and enjoyed having the company around. We had reservations to get away for the night on Friday without the boys and it took him until 2pm on Friday to get ready, but he was so determined to get out of the house. HE DID! I was worried he would not enjoy himself, but he did manage too and once we met our friends for dinner he seemed to be doing better. We were only gone for a little over 24 hours but the best medicine he could ever have had. He was so sad when we were driving back and even last night wanted to pack up again and go back. The boys were excited to see us so that distracted him. Stan I thought was doing better this morning, but then all of a sudden he said he does not feel well again and has slept on and off. He does eat quite well still so that is a huge plus!
Okay, I rambled and rambled...sorry. How is Patsy? Did she enjoy having the kids home for 4 days from school? When does she see the doctor again? Does she go weekly like Stan?
You keep me going Conan...amazing you are working, caring for your wife and raising the kids!
Hugs to you and prayers for all,
Kim
I thought of you during the Holiday hoping all went well with Patsy. She is a remarkable lady, but she certainly has a wonderful husband sticking by her side. It is amazing how much one can push themselves when necessary and you doing more than your share! I am sure Patsy is so proud of you and appreciates all you do for her and the family. We had a nice Thanksgiving other than Stan did not feel well we made the day special for him. We had 10 family/friends over. (yes the MIL was over too) She is a piece of work, but I bit my tongue and moved forward. She always feel the need to control everything from cooking to telling us how to raise our boys. (oh, not to mention the times she has come into our house while we have been on vacaiton and moved things around!) Yes, I finally put my foot down years ago and decided no more housesitting done by her! (thought you would take humor with that one to give you more of an idea what I am up against) Stan had a very tough day on Thanksgiving, but smiled and enjoyed having the company around. We had reservations to get away for the night on Friday without the boys and it took him until 2pm on Friday to get ready, but he was so determined to get out of the house. HE DID! I was worried he would not enjoy himself, but he did manage too and once we met our friends for dinner he seemed to be doing better. We were only gone for a little over 24 hours but the best medicine he could ever have had. He was so sad when we were driving back and even last night wanted to pack up again and go back. The boys were excited to see us so that distracted him. Stan I thought was doing better this morning, but then all of a sudden he said he does not feel well again and has slept on and off. He does eat quite well still so that is a huge plus!
Okay, I rambled and rambled...sorry. How is Patsy? Did she enjoy having the kids home for 4 days from school? When does she see the doctor again? Does she go weekly like Stan?
You keep me going Conan...amazing you are working, caring for your wife and raising the kids!
Hugs to you and prayers for all,
Kim
conan1017
11-27-2006, 10:35 PM
Kim-
I am so delighted to hear that you and Stan were able to get some time away. I have been contemplating the same thing, but there is only one weekend in December that might work …so we will see. It sounds like you had your hands full over the holiday as well. But isn’t wonderful that Stan eats well. Patsy really enjoyed the dinner and I am pretty sure she has gained a few pounds. We have our labs, appt. and chemo on Wed.(we go every 2 weeks now) so I’ll have to wait til then to see if she has gained, because she won’t get on a scale at home.
We had my mom down for Thanksgiving and it really wore me out. It is kind of like a “National Lampoon’s Christmas vacation” type of thing. I had to stay home from work if for nothing else to keep an eye on my mom. On Wed. I had to take Jamie to the doctor and tried to get her to go with, but she decline. And when I came home 40 minutes later she moved the furniture around in the family room and had a 6 ft. “outdoor” inflatable snow man in my living room!! (and you thought you had it bad) I kid you not. I wouldn’t want that thing “outdoors” much less in my living room. So I pulled the plug on it before Patsy saw it. So it was kind of like having another child for a few days.
Kim, let me ask you something. Do you ever get depressed for no specific reason? I feel as if I slipped into depression over the past few days and don’t know exactly why. It is like suddenly, all these negative thoughts and feelings having taken residence without my consent. I am wondering if maybe I’m a little burned out or something. If have this struggle, how do you regroup?
I’m going to have to get of here for now, but thanks for all the kind words. Reading your post was a boost for me. I hope you continue to find opportunities to get Stan out when he is able. You are a remarkable lady yourself and your Husband and boys are blessed to have you.
conan
I am so delighted to hear that you and Stan were able to get some time away. I have been contemplating the same thing, but there is only one weekend in December that might work …so we will see. It sounds like you had your hands full over the holiday as well. But isn’t wonderful that Stan eats well. Patsy really enjoyed the dinner and I am pretty sure she has gained a few pounds. We have our labs, appt. and chemo on Wed.(we go every 2 weeks now) so I’ll have to wait til then to see if she has gained, because she won’t get on a scale at home.
We had my mom down for Thanksgiving and it really wore me out. It is kind of like a “National Lampoon’s Christmas vacation” type of thing. I had to stay home from work if for nothing else to keep an eye on my mom. On Wed. I had to take Jamie to the doctor and tried to get her to go with, but she decline. And when I came home 40 minutes later she moved the furniture around in the family room and had a 6 ft. “outdoor” inflatable snow man in my living room!! (and you thought you had it bad) I kid you not. I wouldn’t want that thing “outdoors” much less in my living room. So I pulled the plug on it before Patsy saw it. So it was kind of like having another child for a few days.
Kim, let me ask you something. Do you ever get depressed for no specific reason? I feel as if I slipped into depression over the past few days and don’t know exactly why. It is like suddenly, all these negative thoughts and feelings having taken residence without my consent. I am wondering if maybe I’m a little burned out or something. If have this struggle, how do you regroup?
I’m going to have to get of here for now, but thanks for all the kind words. Reading your post was a boost for me. I hope you continue to find opportunities to get Stan out when he is able. You are a remarkable lady yourself and your Husband and boys are blessed to have you.
conan
Kimslos
11-28-2006, 02:27 AM
Conan,
Wow, I guess I had it easy compared with you and having a huge inflatable snowman in your family room! Sorry, but I had to chuckle a bit as I have been there given the stuff my MIL has done over the years! I feel for you, but sounds like you took care of it before Patsy saw..whew!
When you ask if I have been depressed...well, not 100% if I know how to know or to answer, but let me try. I do have my pity parties and believe me I have had my share! (I do not know if that constitutes being depressed...maybe it does not) But, I have snapped out of those time after time. I sit there and say why, how, so unfair and so on and so on and then remind myself it could be so much worse. I have thought, wow, I could be a widow at such a young age raising two boys who will miss their father dearly and then think...shoot, what is Stan going thru and here I am having a pity party! It usually takes me working it thru in my head to snap out of that mode. I can go into what I call my turtle mood...where I hide in my shell and keep all inside of me and don't talk to any of my friends for a week or so. I get upset with them at times because they cannot understand what I am going thru, but, how could I expect them to if they have not walked in my shoes. Somehow I look at Stan and snap out of my blue moods. Infact, let me share with you how Stan is even during his cancer....Tonight I was sitting in the family room with Stan and he looks at me and says so what are you surprising me with Christmas this year? I said I am not sure, other than a miracle we are waiting for and he says...well, I was hoping for some new skis! He smiled at me and said, well, what do you think...skis? And then he looks at me and says probably not a good idea so maybe a new hat would be good. Keep in mind during all that there were no tears, just smiling and being so fun and loving! I think that is what keeps me in balance.
I think I just rambled and not even sure if I helped you at all Conan. I am sorry you might be depressed. And remember I also go to the gym and get sterss out via my cardio. Keep me posted on how you work thru it or if anything I wrote made sense to you.
I pray everything will go smooth for Patsy on Wednesday. Stan's counts were okay enough not to get shots today and infact his white was high...hhhmmm, and his albumin was low so you know me I already have a great Chemistry Blood profile I had printed in the past so looked at it to see what a low albumin means. My mom also works in a lab so that is a big plus. It stated that low levels of albumin could be caused by malnutrition (which Stan is eating) or chronic inflammation (which Stan has) and severe acute disease(which Stan has) so...that is why it is showing up low. So it makes me think his cancer could be getting worse and based on the way he is feeling it could be the case. But, not going to dwell on it and will see what they counts are like next week.
You hang in there Conan and ask anything you want, but keep in mind I may not be the best in answering but will offer what help I can! Oh, didn't you mention you were seeing your doctor??? How did that appt. turn out? You mentioned you have a hard time sleeping. (keep in mind you are not alone...since Stan was diagnosed I don't sleep well either) But...I did something very silly one night...I was so tired so took a Tylenol PM and meds work very easy with me so I was out like a light and it was a night that Stan needed me so bad and he almost needed to go to the ER and I could barely keep my eyes open at all! I never took that stuff again! At least Stan and I look back on it and laugh...you see I am the type of person who takes 1/2 a vicadin for my tooth once and could not even stand up!
Ok, need to head to bed...long day and need to still proof some of my son's school work.
Prayers,
Kim
Wow, I guess I had it easy compared with you and having a huge inflatable snowman in your family room! Sorry, but I had to chuckle a bit as I have been there given the stuff my MIL has done over the years! I feel for you, but sounds like you took care of it before Patsy saw..whew!
When you ask if I have been depressed...well, not 100% if I know how to know or to answer, but let me try. I do have my pity parties and believe me I have had my share! (I do not know if that constitutes being depressed...maybe it does not) But, I have snapped out of those time after time. I sit there and say why, how, so unfair and so on and so on and then remind myself it could be so much worse. I have thought, wow, I could be a widow at such a young age raising two boys who will miss their father dearly and then think...shoot, what is Stan going thru and here I am having a pity party! It usually takes me working it thru in my head to snap out of that mode. I can go into what I call my turtle mood...where I hide in my shell and keep all inside of me and don't talk to any of my friends for a week or so. I get upset with them at times because they cannot understand what I am going thru, but, how could I expect them to if they have not walked in my shoes. Somehow I look at Stan and snap out of my blue moods. Infact, let me share with you how Stan is even during his cancer....Tonight I was sitting in the family room with Stan and he looks at me and says so what are you surprising me with Christmas this year? I said I am not sure, other than a miracle we are waiting for and he says...well, I was hoping for some new skis! He smiled at me and said, well, what do you think...skis? And then he looks at me and says probably not a good idea so maybe a new hat would be good. Keep in mind during all that there were no tears, just smiling and being so fun and loving! I think that is what keeps me in balance.
I think I just rambled and not even sure if I helped you at all Conan. I am sorry you might be depressed. And remember I also go to the gym and get sterss out via my cardio. Keep me posted on how you work thru it or if anything I wrote made sense to you.
I pray everything will go smooth for Patsy on Wednesday. Stan's counts were okay enough not to get shots today and infact his white was high...hhhmmm, and his albumin was low so you know me I already have a great Chemistry Blood profile I had printed in the past so looked at it to see what a low albumin means. My mom also works in a lab so that is a big plus. It stated that low levels of albumin could be caused by malnutrition (which Stan is eating) or chronic inflammation (which Stan has) and severe acute disease(which Stan has) so...that is why it is showing up low. So it makes me think his cancer could be getting worse and based on the way he is feeling it could be the case. But, not going to dwell on it and will see what they counts are like next week.
You hang in there Conan and ask anything you want, but keep in mind I may not be the best in answering but will offer what help I can! Oh, didn't you mention you were seeing your doctor??? How did that appt. turn out? You mentioned you have a hard time sleeping. (keep in mind you are not alone...since Stan was diagnosed I don't sleep well either) But...I did something very silly one night...I was so tired so took a Tylenol PM and meds work very easy with me so I was out like a light and it was a night that Stan needed me so bad and he almost needed to go to the ER and I could barely keep my eyes open at all! I never took that stuff again! At least Stan and I look back on it and laugh...you see I am the type of person who takes 1/2 a vicadin for my tooth once and could not even stand up!
Ok, need to head to bed...long day and need to still proof some of my son's school work.
Prayers,
Kim
conan1017
11-28-2006, 09:45 PM
Kim-
As for the 6 ft snowman, my mom does strange things like that because she wasn't around much when me and my brothers were kids. When we were teens she worked in night clubs and we were pretty much left to our own devives. So she in some way wants to make up for lost time and I think that in some way accounts for her odd behavior.
I'm not so sure I have been depressed, but maybe just feeling down. I'm kind of in a "turtle mood". I really just want Christmas to be over with already, and I know I shouldn't have that attitude. I know I need to cherish every moment, day and special day I get with Patsy. But I guess like Jan I need my batteries recharged. I still have somethings to take care of that I have been dragging my feet on and it is so frustrating when you have so little time to work with. But THANKS for sharing that with me. Stan sounds like quite a character. Patsy has noticed my mood and has been extra sweet lately. I'll work through it.
If anything note worthy happens tommorow at Patsy's appt. I'll be sure to post, otherwise I think were okay at that moment. Before bed I will be sure to pray for you and Stan, specifically for his counts ...and for a miracle. The fact that both of you have fought this for more than 17 months now astounds me. You are so strong Kim ...you have to be to do what you do. God bless you all.
Have great week and I talk with you soon,
conan
As for the 6 ft snowman, my mom does strange things like that because she wasn't around much when me and my brothers were kids. When we were teens she worked in night clubs and we were pretty much left to our own devives. So she in some way wants to make up for lost time and I think that in some way accounts for her odd behavior.
I'm not so sure I have been depressed, but maybe just feeling down. I'm kind of in a "turtle mood". I really just want Christmas to be over with already, and I know I shouldn't have that attitude. I know I need to cherish every moment, day and special day I get with Patsy. But I guess like Jan I need my batteries recharged. I still have somethings to take care of that I have been dragging my feet on and it is so frustrating when you have so little time to work with. But THANKS for sharing that with me. Stan sounds like quite a character. Patsy has noticed my mood and has been extra sweet lately. I'll work through it.
If anything note worthy happens tommorow at Patsy's appt. I'll be sure to post, otherwise I think were okay at that moment. Before bed I will be sure to pray for you and Stan, specifically for his counts ...and for a miracle. The fact that both of you have fought this for more than 17 months now astounds me. You are so strong Kim ...you have to be to do what you do. God bless you all.
Have great week and I talk with you soon,
conan
Kimslos
11-29-2006, 02:13 AM
Hi Conan,
Yes, I understand what you mean about being in the turtle mood. I hope you can find a way to get past it. You know I think with cancer there are so many ups and downs for everyone...like some had said (cannot remember who on the posting board said it) but it is a roller coaster ride with the ups and downs. I think today was a down day for us. Stan was able to get out to the store, but it took all he had and then had to rest the rest of the day and was not himself at all...just too hard on him. The doctor encourages him to get out once a day even if it is for lunch for to go to the office, but he seems to do less and less and chemo starts on Monday. I have been so overwhelmed lately with our 5th graders homework...ugh! I honestly think he has more than his older brother who is a Sr! I let him do his own work but he is the type of child who must be micro managed and sit next to him to make sure he stays focused. (but he is my sweetheart even though a handful!)
Ok, I am fading for the night and need to settle down.
Sending prayers your way for a good day tomorrow for Patsy and you too!
You take care of yourself Conan and if you need to scream, maybe get in the car and let it out. (hhhmm, wonder if anyone can hear us when we do that?!)
Thanks as always for the kind words!
Kim
Yes, I understand what you mean about being in the turtle mood. I hope you can find a way to get past it. You know I think with cancer there are so many ups and downs for everyone...like some had said (cannot remember who on the posting board said it) but it is a roller coaster ride with the ups and downs. I think today was a down day for us. Stan was able to get out to the store, but it took all he had and then had to rest the rest of the day and was not himself at all...just too hard on him. The doctor encourages him to get out once a day even if it is for lunch for to go to the office, but he seems to do less and less and chemo starts on Monday. I have been so overwhelmed lately with our 5th graders homework...ugh! I honestly think he has more than his older brother who is a Sr! I let him do his own work but he is the type of child who must be micro managed and sit next to him to make sure he stays focused. (but he is my sweetheart even though a handful!)
Ok, I am fading for the night and need to settle down.
Sending prayers your way for a good day tomorrow for Patsy and you too!
You take care of yourself Conan and if you need to scream, maybe get in the car and let it out. (hhhmm, wonder if anyone can hear us when we do that?!)
Thanks as always for the kind words!
Kim
Janmarie2
11-29-2006, 03:32 AM
Conan, I have just finished reading this volley of posts between you and Kim. You are wondering if you are depressed.Having worked 12 hr night shifts for many years now I am quite familiar with sleep deprivation. Do not under estimate it as it can cause alot of problems. When I am not getting enough sleep I often feel as if I am depressed but once I start getting sleep it all improves.
I think in today's world the importance of sleep is too often over looked. Caregivers really suffer in the sleep department and it is hard on not only our bodies but on our our mental health too. I had alot of issues sleeping while caring for my mom and then felt so rotten and or depressed during the day so I started taking melatonin for sleep and that helped me as I sleep very soundly when I do take it. ( I also know about the effects it has on cancer at higher doses as I am a believer in alternative medicines so researched that one well)
I will be honest I do not know how you deal with Patsy's cancer and the care involved and then have so many little ones to care for too as well as teenagers, you have to be exhausted.Even the real superman would be exhausted. Take care of yourself as well as the others as stress can do so much harm.You might want to try some relaxation or even some of the healing CD's that take you into total relaxation as I have found that 30-45 minutes of listening to them can be very refreshing, even better then a real nap. Speaking of sleep I am about there now so take care. Janmarie
I think in today's world the importance of sleep is too often over looked. Caregivers really suffer in the sleep department and it is hard on not only our bodies but on our our mental health too. I had alot of issues sleeping while caring for my mom and then felt so rotten and or depressed during the day so I started taking melatonin for sleep and that helped me as I sleep very soundly when I do take it. ( I also know about the effects it has on cancer at higher doses as I am a believer in alternative medicines so researched that one well)
I will be honest I do not know how you deal with Patsy's cancer and the care involved and then have so many little ones to care for too as well as teenagers, you have to be exhausted.Even the real superman would be exhausted. Take care of yourself as well as the others as stress can do so much harm.You might want to try some relaxation or even some of the healing CD's that take you into total relaxation as I have found that 30-45 minutes of listening to them can be very refreshing, even better then a real nap. Speaking of sleep I am about there now so take care. Janmarie
Kimslos
12-01-2006, 09:23 PM
Hi JanMarie,
Thanks for reminding me about lack of sleep! I guess we keep going and going and forget out bodies need sleep. And also thanks for reminding me about melatonin. I use to take faithfully, but keep forgetting to pick it up when I go to the store. Thank you as always for your knowledge you share with us...very helpful.
Conan,
Thinking of you and I am sure you are busy wtih Patsy and working. (not to mention the kids!) I hope you can put your feet up and relax as it is Friday night and get some rest. I pray Patsy is doing okay after chemo. Stan and were talking today about his last chemo that is scheduled for Monday and not sure how he will pull thru it given how drained and tired he is...hhhmm. He has fought so hard and know he will fight hard to get thru the last chemo.
You take care and to all the others on the posting board may you have a peaceful weekend.
Prayers,
Kim
Thanks for reminding me about lack of sleep! I guess we keep going and going and forget out bodies need sleep. And also thanks for reminding me about melatonin. I use to take faithfully, but keep forgetting to pick it up when I go to the store. Thank you as always for your knowledge you share with us...very helpful.
Conan,
Thinking of you and I am sure you are busy wtih Patsy and working. (not to mention the kids!) I hope you can put your feet up and relax as it is Friday night and get some rest. I pray Patsy is doing okay after chemo. Stan and were talking today about his last chemo that is scheduled for Monday and not sure how he will pull thru it given how drained and tired he is...hhhmm. He has fought so hard and know he will fight hard to get thru the last chemo.
You take care and to all the others on the posting board may you have a peaceful weekend.
Prayers,
Kim
conan1017
12-01-2006, 10:10 PM
Kim-
How sweet of you to think of me and I know you must have a heavy heart right now. If you don't mind me asking, what is planned after Stan's last chemo? Will there be any more treatments before Christmas? For Patsy's b-day I bought her a video mp3 player and loaded some of her favorite music and pics of the kids. She took it to treatment on Wed and really enjoyed it. If Stan doesn't have one already, it might be a good Christmas gift idea. Our digital camera takes short videos and I think I'm goig to put a few clips of the kids on there. I just thought I would share that.
I hope you enjoy a pleasant weekend and egt some rest. Jamie has had the croup, so I spent a couple of night up and down with him. Other than that, I have been sleeping better. Take care my friend.
conan
How sweet of you to think of me and I know you must have a heavy heart right now. If you don't mind me asking, what is planned after Stan's last chemo? Will there be any more treatments before Christmas? For Patsy's b-day I bought her a video mp3 player and loaded some of her favorite music and pics of the kids. She took it to treatment on Wed and really enjoyed it. If Stan doesn't have one already, it might be a good Christmas gift idea. Our digital camera takes short videos and I think I'm goig to put a few clips of the kids on there. I just thought I would share that.
I hope you enjoy a pleasant weekend and egt some rest. Jamie has had the croup, so I spent a couple of night up and down with him. Other than that, I have been sleeping better. Take care my friend.
conan
Kimslos
12-04-2006, 01:01 AM
Conan,
You were asking about Stan's last chemo tomorrow- He will let about 3 or 4 weeks pass since that is about the time frame they say you need to have your scans after chemo. I think that lands us after Christmas, but they might wait until January 2007. They will reevaluate Stan's condition at that time and determine the next route. I am not sure if a 5th line of chemo is a wise decision given how weak and tired he has been. We have tried alternative stuff too, but as of yet nothing as shown anything significant. (well, other than the fact he keeps amazing the doctors he is still alive given how extensive his cancer is) I don't know how he can have so much cancer in his body and keep going and going. Honestly Conan, I don't know sometimes if Stan will even make it to Christmas and then other days I think he will keep fighting and fighting and be here for yet another wedding anniversary, but lately I worry he has much left in him. (but I could be wrong and let's hope I am!) He still has a fairly decent appetite. I have noticed it is not quite what it use to be, but he can still eat 3 meals a day.
I hope you got some sleep this weekend since Jamie was sick. Thinking of you and Patsy and praying she is getting stronger and beating this terrible disease.
Kim
You were asking about Stan's last chemo tomorrow- He will let about 3 or 4 weeks pass since that is about the time frame they say you need to have your scans after chemo. I think that lands us after Christmas, but they might wait until January 2007. They will reevaluate Stan's condition at that time and determine the next route. I am not sure if a 5th line of chemo is a wise decision given how weak and tired he has been. We have tried alternative stuff too, but as of yet nothing as shown anything significant. (well, other than the fact he keeps amazing the doctors he is still alive given how extensive his cancer is) I don't know how he can have so much cancer in his body and keep going and going. Honestly Conan, I don't know sometimes if Stan will even make it to Christmas and then other days I think he will keep fighting and fighting and be here for yet another wedding anniversary, but lately I worry he has much left in him. (but I could be wrong and let's hope I am!) He still has a fairly decent appetite. I have noticed it is not quite what it use to be, but he can still eat 3 meals a day.
I hope you got some sleep this weekend since Jamie was sick. Thinking of you and Patsy and praying she is getting stronger and beating this terrible disease.
Kim
conan1017
12-04-2006, 10:14 PM
Kim-
I realize that I don't no much about Stan's prognosis, but I feel confident he will make it to Christmas. I say that becuase being a man I know how men think and if your husband can make it ...he will. He will do it because he loves his family and so he will muster up what it takes and give you the best he can. I believe that. I just hope he will rebound nicely from his last treatment and be much better by Christmas (a little miracle, I'm praying).
I have alot of mixed feelings about chemo right now. However, I will wait til Jan. 3 when we get our next scans before think too much about it. I read somewhere that Stan was not able to go with you and the boys to get a tree ...the same with Patsy. I was just going to wait til next weekend, except for a friend of Patsy's pulled up with a frazier fur Sat evening. Which was a nice thing I guess, but would have preferred to take Patsy and the kids out.
I have to run to the pharmacy before it closes and will try to finish posting later tonight. In case I don't, know that I will be thinking about you tommorow. Hang in there, you are doing a great job. God will give you the wisdom to make future decisions.
conan
I realize that I don't no much about Stan's prognosis, but I feel confident he will make it to Christmas. I say that becuase being a man I know how men think and if your husband can make it ...he will. He will do it because he loves his family and so he will muster up what it takes and give you the best he can. I believe that. I just hope he will rebound nicely from his last treatment and be much better by Christmas (a little miracle, I'm praying).
I have alot of mixed feelings about chemo right now. However, I will wait til Jan. 3 when we get our next scans before think too much about it. I read somewhere that Stan was not able to go with you and the boys to get a tree ...the same with Patsy. I was just going to wait til next weekend, except for a friend of Patsy's pulled up with a frazier fur Sat evening. Which was a nice thing I guess, but would have preferred to take Patsy and the kids out.
I have to run to the pharmacy before it closes and will try to finish posting later tonight. In case I don't, know that I will be thinking about you tommorow. Hang in there, you are doing a great job. God will give you the wisdom to make future decisions.
conan
oldfogey
12-05-2006, 12:02 PM
I read this thread with interest and if you don't mind I'll jump in here with some experience of my own to relate.
Our preacher has lung cancer. He underwent everything the medicos advised him to do and then they sent him home to die. There are quite a few different alternative treatments that WORK for healing cancer. One is essiac tea. He decided to try that one first. He called on Friday to say that his cancer has begun to shrink after two months. He was crying for joy. Essiac doesn't work for everyone, but it does for most.
Research essiac tea.
There is another one that has gone thru clinical trials with an 87% cure ( not remission) CURE rate. And that one is paw paw cell reg. Research paw paw cell reg. The folks in the clinical trials were all TERMINAL at the time of beginning treatment. There was every type of cancer represented in those trials. The way paw paw works is to keep the cancer/s from making blood vessels to feed themselves and they starve to death. No side effects unless one overdoses on paw paw. It's quite cheap, you can do it at home. The effects are immediate as you will see when you research paw paw. If your health food store doesn't carry it--and there's only one brand that is regulated which you will learn when you research it--you can order it online.
We told the preacher to start on paw paw...and continue with the essiac tea.
Best of luck to all of you...
Get healed and praise God,
Old Fogey
Our preacher has lung cancer. He underwent everything the medicos advised him to do and then they sent him home to die. There are quite a few different alternative treatments that WORK for healing cancer. One is essiac tea. He decided to try that one first. He called on Friday to say that his cancer has begun to shrink after two months. He was crying for joy. Essiac doesn't work for everyone, but it does for most.
Research essiac tea.
There is another one that has gone thru clinical trials with an 87% cure ( not remission) CURE rate. And that one is paw paw cell reg. Research paw paw cell reg. The folks in the clinical trials were all TERMINAL at the time of beginning treatment. There was every type of cancer represented in those trials. The way paw paw works is to keep the cancer/s from making blood vessels to feed themselves and they starve to death. No side effects unless one overdoses on paw paw. It's quite cheap, you can do it at home. The effects are immediate as you will see when you research paw paw. If your health food store doesn't carry it--and there's only one brand that is regulated which you will learn when you research it--you can order it online.
We told the preacher to start on paw paw...and continue with the essiac tea.
Best of luck to all of you...
Get healed and praise God,
Old Fogey
Kimslos
12-09-2006, 01:53 PM
Conan,
Wow, not sure where the week went, but think most of it was in tears and hiding from Stan. I was so thankful it is his last chemo for a while. His body just does not hande steroids very well at all even though they cut the dosage in 1/2. I honestly had to leave the house so I would not get verbally attacked. It is not him at all and scary what meds can do to you. All I know is that if he has to have steroids on his next chemo I will call the doctor without Stan around and tell him our family cannot go thru it. The poor boys too! I ran out of the house one time with Anthony so we could leave Stan to rest and forgot Andrew was on his way home and forgot to warn him. He handled it okay and knew it was the meds. I thought about you and prayed that Patsy had a good week, did she? I just could not get on the posting board with everything going on and I was just emotionally gone. Yesterday was the first time Stan got out in over a week. He was only out for not even an hour, but at least got out!
I think you are right Conan, Stan will be here for Christmas and thank you for your kind words and reasoning...very well stated!
Yes, it was sad he could not go for the tree, the very first time, but we called home to make him part of it and made the best of it. I understand how you felt about Patsy's friend driving up with the tree and what a beautiful gesture she did for you and the family, but there is something about going as a family for the tree. (guess each family has their own traditions) But...what a dear friend she has to do that for all of you. Yes, understand about the mixed feelings of chemo.
Now Oldfogey wrote about their preacher having lung cancer and improving drinking essiac tea. We personally have not succeeded with it. We tried it on my FIL, a friend used with her mom, aunt and uncle and another friend used it on their BIL and several other people but no success so it is good to know it is working for someone! I need to look into the Paw paw that was mentioned. But you also must be careful and you cannot mix cetain things. Anyway, thanks Old Fogey for sharing a positive story and hopes he continues to have shrinkage.
I need to run for now.
I continue to pray for Patsy and for you and the family Conan,
Kim Oh, thought about Renea all week too and worried since have not seen a posting but I am so behind on reading them. Prayers headed her way too!
Wow, not sure where the week went, but think most of it was in tears and hiding from Stan. I was so thankful it is his last chemo for a while. His body just does not hande steroids very well at all even though they cut the dosage in 1/2. I honestly had to leave the house so I would not get verbally attacked. It is not him at all and scary what meds can do to you. All I know is that if he has to have steroids on his next chemo I will call the doctor without Stan around and tell him our family cannot go thru it. The poor boys too! I ran out of the house one time with Anthony so we could leave Stan to rest and forgot Andrew was on his way home and forgot to warn him. He handled it okay and knew it was the meds. I thought about you and prayed that Patsy had a good week, did she? I just could not get on the posting board with everything going on and I was just emotionally gone. Yesterday was the first time Stan got out in over a week. He was only out for not even an hour, but at least got out!
I think you are right Conan, Stan will be here for Christmas and thank you for your kind words and reasoning...very well stated!
Yes, it was sad he could not go for the tree, the very first time, but we called home to make him part of it and made the best of it. I understand how you felt about Patsy's friend driving up with the tree and what a beautiful gesture she did for you and the family, but there is something about going as a family for the tree. (guess each family has their own traditions) But...what a dear friend she has to do that for all of you. Yes, understand about the mixed feelings of chemo.
Now Oldfogey wrote about their preacher having lung cancer and improving drinking essiac tea. We personally have not succeeded with it. We tried it on my FIL, a friend used with her mom, aunt and uncle and another friend used it on their BIL and several other people but no success so it is good to know it is working for someone! I need to look into the Paw paw that was mentioned. But you also must be careful and you cannot mix cetain things. Anyway, thanks Old Fogey for sharing a positive story and hopes he continues to have shrinkage.
I need to run for now.
I continue to pray for Patsy and for you and the family Conan,
Kim Oh, thought about Renea all week too and worried since have not seen a posting but I am so behind on reading them. Prayers headed her way too!
conan1017
12-09-2006, 11:05 PM
Kim-
I am so sorry to hear that you are having a tough time. You are not alone. I have been having a difficult time with a couple of teenage step-daughters who truly believe the universe revolves around them. They of course did not appreciate my dragging them into the universe of reality. However after a couple of weeks in “consequences & accountability 101”, they are slowly coming around. Add to that, taking Jamie to the doc 3 times in 1 week and trying to get ready for Christmas. Oh, and I have been fighting off a cold all week, so by the time I have the kids down I have been ready to crash and burn.
Back to Stan. How important is it that he take the steroid? Patsy doesn’t have a problem with decadron that I am aware of, but she does of course get grumpy after chemo. The kids really got her rattled when decorating the tree, but it is usually a bit chaotic. Anyway, she has had a good week ….thanks for asking. But it has been cold here and she has a difficult time going out in the cold, so she has stayed in this week. I had her next chemo moved up a couple days to this Monday in hopes that we can attend a Christmas party Sat night. I just hope doing it a couple days early doesn’t mess her up. Our onc thinks it will probably be okay.
I did some research on the essiac tea and wasn’t all that encouraged. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to try, but like Kim I would be concerned of interfering with ongoing treatments. The Pawpaw seems more promising and has been used clinically, but the primary source fails to provide any documented success stories other than to say that it has been “successful” against a variety of cancers and I think they claimed that some went into remission (but nothing specific was offered, nor did they claim any were cured). Basically it claims to do what the drug Avastin does, which is to starve the tumors by restricting/blocking the blood flow. However, Avastin is considered “successful” because clinical trials have shown that patients using Avastin live a median span of 2 months longer than those who did not use the drug. Which considering the quality of time you may get, isn’t all that great.
In closing, very few people see any long term remission and even fewer have ever been considered to be “cured”. I believe a person is not considered cured until you have been clean for 5 years, but I’m not sure. However, thanks oldfogey for sharing and I will continue to look into it. I hope I don’t come across as negative, but if there are any secret cures out here the proponents of these cures need to provide more specific documentation and parade it down every avenue and corridor available, starting with the internet. Most of what I have found has been undocumented testimony and generalizations. If my wife was cured from an alternative therapy, I would have a first class web-site designed that documented her therapy and progress, then I would shout it from the roof tops so that others who were suffering the way we have would have a chance. Heck, I would even go on Oprah.
conan
I am so sorry to hear that you are having a tough time. You are not alone. I have been having a difficult time with a couple of teenage step-daughters who truly believe the universe revolves around them. They of course did not appreciate my dragging them into the universe of reality. However after a couple of weeks in “consequences & accountability 101”, they are slowly coming around. Add to that, taking Jamie to the doc 3 times in 1 week and trying to get ready for Christmas. Oh, and I have been fighting off a cold all week, so by the time I have the kids down I have been ready to crash and burn.
Back to Stan. How important is it that he take the steroid? Patsy doesn’t have a problem with decadron that I am aware of, but she does of course get grumpy after chemo. The kids really got her rattled when decorating the tree, but it is usually a bit chaotic. Anyway, she has had a good week ….thanks for asking. But it has been cold here and she has a difficult time going out in the cold, so she has stayed in this week. I had her next chemo moved up a couple days to this Monday in hopes that we can attend a Christmas party Sat night. I just hope doing it a couple days early doesn’t mess her up. Our onc thinks it will probably be okay.
I did some research on the essiac tea and wasn’t all that encouraged. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to try, but like Kim I would be concerned of interfering with ongoing treatments. The Pawpaw seems more promising and has been used clinically, but the primary source fails to provide any documented success stories other than to say that it has been “successful” against a variety of cancers and I think they claimed that some went into remission (but nothing specific was offered, nor did they claim any were cured). Basically it claims to do what the drug Avastin does, which is to starve the tumors by restricting/blocking the blood flow. However, Avastin is considered “successful” because clinical trials have shown that patients using Avastin live a median span of 2 months longer than those who did not use the drug. Which considering the quality of time you may get, isn’t all that great.
In closing, very few people see any long term remission and even fewer have ever been considered to be “cured”. I believe a person is not considered cured until you have been clean for 5 years, but I’m not sure. However, thanks oldfogey for sharing and I will continue to look into it. I hope I don’t come across as negative, but if there are any secret cures out here the proponents of these cures need to provide more specific documentation and parade it down every avenue and corridor available, starting with the internet. Most of what I have found has been undocumented testimony and generalizations. If my wife was cured from an alternative therapy, I would have a first class web-site designed that documented her therapy and progress, then I would shout it from the roof tops so that others who were suffering the way we have would have a chance. Heck, I would even go on Oprah.
conan
Kimslos
12-11-2006, 01:02 AM
Conan,
Sorry to hear you have had more than your share! I don't have girls, but all my friends do so know what you are speaking of. I was just telling the kids tonight how painful it is as a parent to discipline but necessary. (cannot remember what triggered the conversation but was turned out quite intersting) I am so thankful that my oldest has been such a good teenager because I know I could not handle a bad teenager and Anthony at the same time.
I do know if Stan does not get steroids during chemo it can cause severe side effects from the chemo, but they must have another option. (you would think) We will see what happens going forward after his next scans.
We have our Christmas dinner party on Saturday for the business we own so Stan is doing everything he can to get better. It is a small group and have a restaurant booked that over looks where the annual boat parade is in Newport Beach. At least he has something to look forward too and then on Sunday we have the football banquet for our oldest. I do hope Patsy is up to getting out to the Christmas Party. Is it this coming Sat or the following?
You know I have been fighting something all week too! I thought it was at first allergies, but then thought a cold, but feel much better today.
I think I have been not getting enough sleep between my usual research on cancer/vitamins and treatment options on line, Christmas shopping and the normal routine. I still did not find that much more on Pawpaw...wondering if anyone else on this posting board has used it? I am sure you agree with me, it is so overwhelming at times. I am not sure if I mentioned to you, but when Stan was first diagnosed we flew to Houston to a Clinic to look at other options. (not the MD Anderson Clinic) This clinic has a high success rate with other cancers, but Stan's was so extensive and aggressive. Plus, you still must fly there every 3 months to continue treatment, which Stan was not able to do!
Need to sign off for now and pray all goes well for Patsy. (believe she has chemo tomorrow) May God lighten your load this week and give you strength to keep going and may Patsy have a quick recovery after chemo so she can enjoy the evening out!
Kim
Sorry to hear you have had more than your share! I don't have girls, but all my friends do so know what you are speaking of. I was just telling the kids tonight how painful it is as a parent to discipline but necessary. (cannot remember what triggered the conversation but was turned out quite intersting) I am so thankful that my oldest has been such a good teenager because I know I could not handle a bad teenager and Anthony at the same time.
I do know if Stan does not get steroids during chemo it can cause severe side effects from the chemo, but they must have another option. (you would think) We will see what happens going forward after his next scans.
We have our Christmas dinner party on Saturday for the business we own so Stan is doing everything he can to get better. It is a small group and have a restaurant booked that over looks where the annual boat parade is in Newport Beach. At least he has something to look forward too and then on Sunday we have the football banquet for our oldest. I do hope Patsy is up to getting out to the Christmas Party. Is it this coming Sat or the following?
You know I have been fighting something all week too! I thought it was at first allergies, but then thought a cold, but feel much better today.
I think I have been not getting enough sleep between my usual research on cancer/vitamins and treatment options on line, Christmas shopping and the normal routine. I still did not find that much more on Pawpaw...wondering if anyone else on this posting board has used it? I am sure you agree with me, it is so overwhelming at times. I am not sure if I mentioned to you, but when Stan was first diagnosed we flew to Houston to a Clinic to look at other options. (not the MD Anderson Clinic) This clinic has a high success rate with other cancers, but Stan's was so extensive and aggressive. Plus, you still must fly there every 3 months to continue treatment, which Stan was not able to do!
Need to sign off for now and pray all goes well for Patsy. (believe she has chemo tomorrow) May God lighten your load this week and give you strength to keep going and may Patsy have a quick recovery after chemo so she can enjoy the evening out!
Kim
conan1017
12-13-2006, 11:19 PM
Kim-
How are you doing? I have been thing of you and Stan, wonering how he is holding up. I sure hope he is able to enjoy some of the holiday festivities. I have been thinking of how you and others just open your heart and arms to people here (myself included!) and I really appreciate your friendship. This is really the only place where I actually want to talk about issues related to Patsy's illness.
It sounds like you have a wonderful company party planned. The Christmas party we are attending on Sat. is a church social and we have something else on Monday at a restaurant. Then my dad and stepmom are coming in from Dallas Thus. of next week, which is what I am looking forward to. Overall things are okay.
I am really stumped on what to get Patsy. I bought her some books she wanted, but I am clueless as for anything else. What about you? Got your shopping done? Stan?
Oh well, I have to go for now. I'm not sure if I will have alot of time between now and Christmas. However I am praying that your Christmas with your husband and boys is special. God bless you and Merry Christmas.
conan
How are you doing? I have been thing of you and Stan, wonering how he is holding up. I sure hope he is able to enjoy some of the holiday festivities. I have been thinking of how you and others just open your heart and arms to people here (myself included!) and I really appreciate your friendship. This is really the only place where I actually want to talk about issues related to Patsy's illness.
It sounds like you have a wonderful company party planned. The Christmas party we are attending on Sat. is a church social and we have something else on Monday at a restaurant. Then my dad and stepmom are coming in from Dallas Thus. of next week, which is what I am looking forward to. Overall things are okay.
I am really stumped on what to get Patsy. I bought her some books she wanted, but I am clueless as for anything else. What about you? Got your shopping done? Stan?
Oh well, I have to go for now. I'm not sure if I will have alot of time between now and Christmas. However I am praying that your Christmas with your husband and boys is special. God bless you and Merry Christmas.
conan
Kimslos
12-15-2006, 01:21 AM
Hi Conan,
Thanks for thinking of us. Stan is getting out and has made it to the office twice with me this week and think honestly he is pushing it, but good he gets out. We have a full weekend as now we have had yet another dinner added..tomorrow evening. (our close friend is turning 49) I think since we have Fri, Sat and Sun evening plans I hope it lifts Stan's spirits. He is in pain and takes his vicadin every 3 hours, but he said he has noticed it is wearing off before 3 hours. (and as you know he won't take anything stronger)
Your plans for the church social sound wonderful and I pray Patsy will have a good weekend to enjoy! (wonderful you keep your faith...I sure have questioned mine once or twice...okay maybe more than that during this ordeal, but still keeping it...but certainly a test!)
Yes, most of the shopping is completed...except for our oldest son needs an item and Stan I am still filling in a gift or two. I got him some DVD's of some "oldy" music performers. It entertains him and it is about as long as he can last. Does she have a nice, soft blanket? I went with my son tonight to the mall and we found at Brookstone these wonderfully soft blankets! (just an idea) Stan also likes to be massaged so we have hand held massagers. (got those last year) It is easy for the kids to massage him with those...just hold and move up and down.
Oh, I can understand you are looking gorward to having your dad and stepmom....wonderful to have them arrive soon! Enjoy and know they will be a great help with the kids! Monday is the 10th month of my dad's death...sad for me knowing he won't be here, but mom is arriving on Christmas Eve after we finish dinner. My dad and I did not always see eye to eye, but he loved and adored me and he loved talking to me on the phone when mom was not home. (enough of that before I get too emotional)
Conan, I too appreciate your friendship and support thru this posting board. I pray your Chirstmas is peaceful and blessed with some great days for Patsy to enjoy the Holiday. (I also pray you get a bit of rest)
I understand if you do not post until after the Holidays...just know you are in my prayers.
God Bless you and your Family,
Kim
Thanks for thinking of us. Stan is getting out and has made it to the office twice with me this week and think honestly he is pushing it, but good he gets out. We have a full weekend as now we have had yet another dinner added..tomorrow evening. (our close friend is turning 49) I think since we have Fri, Sat and Sun evening plans I hope it lifts Stan's spirits. He is in pain and takes his vicadin every 3 hours, but he said he has noticed it is wearing off before 3 hours. (and as you know he won't take anything stronger)
Your plans for the church social sound wonderful and I pray Patsy will have a good weekend to enjoy! (wonderful you keep your faith...I sure have questioned mine once or twice...okay maybe more than that during this ordeal, but still keeping it...but certainly a test!)
Yes, most of the shopping is completed...except for our oldest son needs an item and Stan I am still filling in a gift or two. I got him some DVD's of some "oldy" music performers. It entertains him and it is about as long as he can last. Does she have a nice, soft blanket? I went with my son tonight to the mall and we found at Brookstone these wonderfully soft blankets! (just an idea) Stan also likes to be massaged so we have hand held massagers. (got those last year) It is easy for the kids to massage him with those...just hold and move up and down.
Oh, I can understand you are looking gorward to having your dad and stepmom....wonderful to have them arrive soon! Enjoy and know they will be a great help with the kids! Monday is the 10th month of my dad's death...sad for me knowing he won't be here, but mom is arriving on Christmas Eve after we finish dinner. My dad and I did not always see eye to eye, but he loved and adored me and he loved talking to me on the phone when mom was not home. (enough of that before I get too emotional)
Conan, I too appreciate your friendship and support thru this posting board. I pray your Chirstmas is peaceful and blessed with some great days for Patsy to enjoy the Holiday. (I also pray you get a bit of rest)
I understand if you do not post until after the Holidays...just know you are in my prayers.
God Bless you and your Family,
Kim
conan1017
12-16-2006, 02:32 AM
That is a wonderful idea! (the blanket) She has one she uses, but the kids will sometimes take off with it. I think we have a Brookstone here (not sure), so I will definitely check that out. I was doing some shopping last night and it was so depressing not having Patsy with me. I guess that is why I haven’t been too excited about Christmas. ..and massage is not a bad idea either (perhaps you could suggest it to Patsy :D ). Seriously, when Patsy was in the hospital I massaged her legs and feet, mainly to improve circulation since she wasn’t walking much, but she can’t really take a massage on her upperbody. Also, KY makes a really nice massage oil
Switching topics …before Patsy was diagnosed, I was taking about 4 courses a semester at Liberty University via the distance learning program and am about 3 semesters from completing a BA in religion. Theology, philosophy and church history are topics I love to discuss and write about. With out a doubt the most “questioned” topic is the issue of suffering. I believe it is perfectly “normal” for reasonable beings to question why a “good” God would allow good people to suffer. So the philosopher in us desires to understand “why” and for what purpose we must walk through this valley. But then I realize it is not as much my “faith” that is failing, but my logic. “…If God cared for me, He would not allow me or Patsy to suffer like this. …So either He does not care or simply is not there.” The problem with that kind of reasoning for a Christian is that it is simply not biblical. The painful truth is that disease and suffering are part of the human experience and even a part of God’s plan. Before going to the cross, even Jesus questioned God asking if “This cup” could be remove from Him, and yet He yielded saying “Not my will but thy will be done.” And that is where you and I and others ultimately struggle, …trusting God.
I honestly don’t understand what God is doing …why He is allowing us to go through this. But I can tell you this. Months before Patsy was diagnosed I was studying the book of Jeremiah and being inspired, in prayer I asked God to make me a man of “courage and compassion” like Jeremiah. …And have you not become more courageous and compassionate since Stan fell ill? It is difficult to mold hardened clay, so perhaps God has to break our hearts sometimes ...and our wills. Consider Proverbs 16:9 which says "A man's heart plans his way, BUT the Lord directs his steps." I read some of the posts here and while I don’t reply to many of them, my heart breaks because I know something of the pain they feel. Courage and compassion are not things we obtain by skating unscathed down life’s highway. Then again, what about Stan and Patsy? The children? …I don’t know. That is why I say I don’t understand God.
I don’t know what the future holds, but I believe I know Who holds the future. Kim, it has been absolutely amazing how our every need has been met since being first diagnosed. I missed a lot of work and was compensated for much of it. Not to mention, to this day I am still receiving checks in the mail and many times from people I have never met. I just keep depositing it thinking one day I am probably going to need it. My employer sponsored a benefit golf tournament back in Oct. and some of Patsy’s internet friend held an online auction that did extremely well. When we were in the hospital people from church were cooking meals and bring food over …I had to build a pantry and hook up a freezer to store it all. The amazing thing is that the only thing I had to worry about then was being with Patsy and minister to her needs. So instead of getting bogged down in what I don’t know or understand, I try to focus on what I do know. And when I do, I find it easier to trust God and just take one day at a time.
We are all different, so I am not sure if that helps. I doubt this will ever “make sense” to any of us, but since when does life have to “make sense”. Sometimes it is hard to see the forest for the trees. But hang in there, because you are doing a awesome job …I just know it. Through it all, you will bring up two fine young men and bring happiness to your husband (although you may not always see it …you are!) And when you come through this storm, your going to be different than before. I believe when we get to where we are going, then we will understand things better.
I will be praying you, I promise. I am sorry about your dad, but I am thrilled to hear that Stan is able to get around. Just think, no chemo for the rest of the year!
Take care,
conan
Switching topics …before Patsy was diagnosed, I was taking about 4 courses a semester at Liberty University via the distance learning program and am about 3 semesters from completing a BA in religion. Theology, philosophy and church history are topics I love to discuss and write about. With out a doubt the most “questioned” topic is the issue of suffering. I believe it is perfectly “normal” for reasonable beings to question why a “good” God would allow good people to suffer. So the philosopher in us desires to understand “why” and for what purpose we must walk through this valley. But then I realize it is not as much my “faith” that is failing, but my logic. “…If God cared for me, He would not allow me or Patsy to suffer like this. …So either He does not care or simply is not there.” The problem with that kind of reasoning for a Christian is that it is simply not biblical. The painful truth is that disease and suffering are part of the human experience and even a part of God’s plan. Before going to the cross, even Jesus questioned God asking if “This cup” could be remove from Him, and yet He yielded saying “Not my will but thy will be done.” And that is where you and I and others ultimately struggle, …trusting God.
I honestly don’t understand what God is doing …why He is allowing us to go through this. But I can tell you this. Months before Patsy was diagnosed I was studying the book of Jeremiah and being inspired, in prayer I asked God to make me a man of “courage and compassion” like Jeremiah. …And have you not become more courageous and compassionate since Stan fell ill? It is difficult to mold hardened clay, so perhaps God has to break our hearts sometimes ...and our wills. Consider Proverbs 16:9 which says "A man's heart plans his way, BUT the Lord directs his steps." I read some of the posts here and while I don’t reply to many of them, my heart breaks because I know something of the pain they feel. Courage and compassion are not things we obtain by skating unscathed down life’s highway. Then again, what about Stan and Patsy? The children? …I don’t know. That is why I say I don’t understand God.
I don’t know what the future holds, but I believe I know Who holds the future. Kim, it has been absolutely amazing how our every need has been met since being first diagnosed. I missed a lot of work and was compensated for much of it. Not to mention, to this day I am still receiving checks in the mail and many times from people I have never met. I just keep depositing it thinking one day I am probably going to need it. My employer sponsored a benefit golf tournament back in Oct. and some of Patsy’s internet friend held an online auction that did extremely well. When we were in the hospital people from church were cooking meals and bring food over …I had to build a pantry and hook up a freezer to store it all. The amazing thing is that the only thing I had to worry about then was being with Patsy and minister to her needs. So instead of getting bogged down in what I don’t know or understand, I try to focus on what I do know. And when I do, I find it easier to trust God and just take one day at a time.
We are all different, so I am not sure if that helps. I doubt this will ever “make sense” to any of us, but since when does life have to “make sense”. Sometimes it is hard to see the forest for the trees. But hang in there, because you are doing a awesome job …I just know it. Through it all, you will bring up two fine young men and bring happiness to your husband (although you may not always see it …you are!) And when you come through this storm, your going to be different than before. I believe when we get to where we are going, then we will understand things better.
I will be praying you, I promise. I am sorry about your dad, but I am thrilled to hear that Stan is able to get around. Just think, no chemo for the rest of the year!
Take care,
conan
Kimslos
12-17-2006, 03:03 AM
Hi-
You know your timing could not have been better! Stan was having a really tough morning/afternoon, and I was teetering on a meltdown of emotions and the boys being boys and tears were flowing so what better place to come to...the posting board. I read your posting which got me on track after a few more tears shed and kept going for the day. (sorry I could not sit down at that time to thank you, but thanks coming your way now) Thanks for sharing and opening up to me. You made a lot of sense and yes I have become more courageous and compassionate...you are correct in saying that. I also do not think I worry as much about materialistic things or if my hair is sticking up straight or if my house is not clean and neat the way I like.( I tend to be a bit of a neat freak...ssshhh, don't tell anyone!) I have learned those are not important as it use to be...would rather sit with Stan and enjoy time with him. (or the boys) I do not blame God, nor do I blame anyone, but when my dad was sick the same time Stan was and I was trying to juggle my time flying to Vegas and leaving Stan at home to say my final goodbyes to my dad that is when I was getting very frustrated with God. I pray to God everyday...maybe my prayers are too selfish, but I don't think so. So Conan I thank you for taking time to share the verses and the "reasoning" that goes along with them. Your Patsy is very lucky to have a man like you taking care of her and raising your kids! Even though Patsy has this terrible disease she has a husband who has a genuine love of life and love of his family and God...a rare find! THANKS CONAN...and here I thought I could help you out as when you first started posting you sounded like you needed a friend...I guess it was me.
Ok, to update you on the weekend. (I will make this brief as it is late)
Stan made it out last night, a quick and nice dinner. We met at 6:15 and home by 8:00pm. (just perfect based on the way Stan was feeling) Today Stan woke up and was not feeling well and for some reason is retaining water and gaining weight. (don't think a good sign!) Somehow he got ready for tonight, but it was so hard for him. (oh how it broke my heart to see him get ready...and my oldest son was in our room talking to us and keeping us company...I think he knows things are looking worse) We left the house at 5:30 and were home by 9:45 and think it might have been too much for Stan, but he managed! I don't think he completely enjoyed himself and I kept rubbing/massaging his lower back to ease some of his pain. He already mentioned that he might not be able to make it to the football banquet tomorrow afternoon. (he hates missing the kids stuff so know he is not feeling well!) Anyway, I hope Patsy did better that Stan and had a wonderful time at the church social tonight.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
Thanks my friend and prayers continue for you and your family,
Kim
You know your timing could not have been better! Stan was having a really tough morning/afternoon, and I was teetering on a meltdown of emotions and the boys being boys and tears were flowing so what better place to come to...the posting board. I read your posting which got me on track after a few more tears shed and kept going for the day. (sorry I could not sit down at that time to thank you, but thanks coming your way now) Thanks for sharing and opening up to me. You made a lot of sense and yes I have become more courageous and compassionate...you are correct in saying that. I also do not think I worry as much about materialistic things or if my hair is sticking up straight or if my house is not clean and neat the way I like.( I tend to be a bit of a neat freak...ssshhh, don't tell anyone!) I have learned those are not important as it use to be...would rather sit with Stan and enjoy time with him. (or the boys) I do not blame God, nor do I blame anyone, but when my dad was sick the same time Stan was and I was trying to juggle my time flying to Vegas and leaving Stan at home to say my final goodbyes to my dad that is when I was getting very frustrated with God. I pray to God everyday...maybe my prayers are too selfish, but I don't think so. So Conan I thank you for taking time to share the verses and the "reasoning" that goes along with them. Your Patsy is very lucky to have a man like you taking care of her and raising your kids! Even though Patsy has this terrible disease she has a husband who has a genuine love of life and love of his family and God...a rare find! THANKS CONAN...and here I thought I could help you out as when you first started posting you sounded like you needed a friend...I guess it was me.
Ok, to update you on the weekend. (I will make this brief as it is late)
Stan made it out last night, a quick and nice dinner. We met at 6:15 and home by 8:00pm. (just perfect based on the way Stan was feeling) Today Stan woke up and was not feeling well and for some reason is retaining water and gaining weight. (don't think a good sign!) Somehow he got ready for tonight, but it was so hard for him. (oh how it broke my heart to see him get ready...and my oldest son was in our room talking to us and keeping us company...I think he knows things are looking worse) We left the house at 5:30 and were home by 9:45 and think it might have been too much for Stan, but he managed! I don't think he completely enjoyed himself and I kept rubbing/massaging his lower back to ease some of his pain. He already mentioned that he might not be able to make it to the football banquet tomorrow afternoon. (he hates missing the kids stuff so know he is not feeling well!) Anyway, I hope Patsy did better that Stan and had a wonderful time at the church social tonight.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
Thanks my friend and prayers continue for you and your family,
Kim
conan1017
12-20-2006, 12:58 AM
Kim-
I followed up on your suggestion and found a really soft blanket at "Bed & Bath ..." I just have one or two things to get and I think I am done (thank heavens!). Since Patsy was diagnosed I have had a touch of "vertigo" from time to time, which is mainly what I went to see the doc for. Like tonight, I could be walking through a store and suddenly my head feels like its swimming ...and the worst thing you can do is stop moving, if you do you can get really dizzy. So you move on and it passes. I guess it is nuerological and can be activated by stress. The doc prescibed "antivert" which seems to help.
If in my rambling I said anything to encourage you then I am happy. I believe that we caretakers ( or at least myself) tend to beat-up on ourselves. I think you are a fantastic person and I believe with all my being that God recieves your prayers and cathches every tear that falls. When I pray, I talk to God like my Father. I complain, vent my frustrations, beg, ask questions and hopefully when all that is done, I surrender. Someone wisely once said, "Prayer is not getting God to do your will, but getting you ready to do His will."
It sounds like I would have rather went to Stan's party. The church Christmas banquet seemed like a chore, and the food was 'blah'. I prefer small group company with good food and conversation to overcrowded socials filled small talk. Not to mention, some people like to invaded your personal space when they talk. I feel trapped in those kind of environments. For entertainment, they flew this comedian in from LA ...Nick Arnette, I think. He wasn't to bad if you like stand up. Geesh ...I am so excited the holiday is almost over with. ..I know, I sound like a dud. I guess I'm over the hyper-commercial activity and ready for the norm.
If I can get on tommorow night I am going to try to create a Christmas surprise, so keep your eyes peeled. I hope Stan's symtoms are not too serious and that they improve. I will pray specifically for those things tonight. I also hope you are able to find some peace and enjoy this Christmas with your family. God bless you Kim. I'll be thinking of you.
conan
I followed up on your suggestion and found a really soft blanket at "Bed & Bath ..." I just have one or two things to get and I think I am done (thank heavens!). Since Patsy was diagnosed I have had a touch of "vertigo" from time to time, which is mainly what I went to see the doc for. Like tonight, I could be walking through a store and suddenly my head feels like its swimming ...and the worst thing you can do is stop moving, if you do you can get really dizzy. So you move on and it passes. I guess it is nuerological and can be activated by stress. The doc prescibed "antivert" which seems to help.
If in my rambling I said anything to encourage you then I am happy. I believe that we caretakers ( or at least myself) tend to beat-up on ourselves. I think you are a fantastic person and I believe with all my being that God recieves your prayers and cathches every tear that falls. When I pray, I talk to God like my Father. I complain, vent my frustrations, beg, ask questions and hopefully when all that is done, I surrender. Someone wisely once said, "Prayer is not getting God to do your will, but getting you ready to do His will."
It sounds like I would have rather went to Stan's party. The church Christmas banquet seemed like a chore, and the food was 'blah'. I prefer small group company with good food and conversation to overcrowded socials filled small talk. Not to mention, some people like to invaded your personal space when they talk. I feel trapped in those kind of environments. For entertainment, they flew this comedian in from LA ...Nick Arnette, I think. He wasn't to bad if you like stand up. Geesh ...I am so excited the holiday is almost over with. ..I know, I sound like a dud. I guess I'm over the hyper-commercial activity and ready for the norm.
If I can get on tommorow night I am going to try to create a Christmas surprise, so keep your eyes peeled. I hope Stan's symtoms are not too serious and that they improve. I will pray specifically for those things tonight. I also hope you are able to find some peace and enjoy this Christmas with your family. God bless you Kim. I'll be thinking of you.
conan
Kimslos
12-20-2006, 01:30 AM
Oh Conan,
Somehow you knew I needed to see a posting from you. I am having a tough time today watching Stan have a harder time so what a blessing to walk by the computer and something told me to check the posting board! THANKS!
Stan could not make it to our son's football banquet on Sunday. It was so sad leaving him behind and he was miserable. (it did not help that my MIL stopped by for 30 minutes before Stan was to shower...long story not worth the typing and got into it with her) We got out today for a quick bite for lunch and that was about it. He was short tempered today. I was just better keeping quiet and was careful as to what I said.
Oh yes, we could have really enjoyed you and Patsy at our dinner on Saturday evening! I can understand what you said about your Christmas Banquet being more of a chore and the small talk.
Good you got Patsy a soft blanket and hope she enjoys! I have my Christmas shopping completed, except for a basket I have to put together at the last minute. (so it won't spoil) I don't like to let the hype of shopping and all the wrapping and stress get to me as I try to pace myself and complete it early so I can actually enjoy the Holidays. I enjoy baking and so now I have time to bake a couple of things for the Holiday when Stan naps. Last night I made cookies for Anthony to take to his religious class today for their little party. Right before Stan was diagnosed we had just finished building our dream kitchen so I truly enjoy cooking and baking when time allows!
Sorry to hear of your vertigo problem! I get it once in a while from sinus infections,(before I had sinus surgery) but not as severe as yours and it is scary for me so cannot imagine what you must feel! My mom had vertigo about 19 years ago so had to fly over to help her out and it thru her into a panic. I hope the meds can help you and not have one more thing to worry about. Amazing how stress upset one's body!
Stan had a headache in the back of his head today and had them a couple of weeks ago...not sure how severe since he takes vicadin every 3 hours so not sure how much is being masked by that. I am keeping an eye on him, the best I can do. He goes on Dec. 28th for his scans. We get the results on Jan. 2nd.
Thanks Conan for all your support and kind words and words of wisdom.
God Bless You,
Kim oh yes, will look forward to the surprise! Enjoy your parents as I know they are arriving soon!
Somehow you knew I needed to see a posting from you. I am having a tough time today watching Stan have a harder time so what a blessing to walk by the computer and something told me to check the posting board! THANKS!
Stan could not make it to our son's football banquet on Sunday. It was so sad leaving him behind and he was miserable. (it did not help that my MIL stopped by for 30 minutes before Stan was to shower...long story not worth the typing and got into it with her) We got out today for a quick bite for lunch and that was about it. He was short tempered today. I was just better keeping quiet and was careful as to what I said.
Oh yes, we could have really enjoyed you and Patsy at our dinner on Saturday evening! I can understand what you said about your Christmas Banquet being more of a chore and the small talk.
Good you got Patsy a soft blanket and hope she enjoys! I have my Christmas shopping completed, except for a basket I have to put together at the last minute. (so it won't spoil) I don't like to let the hype of shopping and all the wrapping and stress get to me as I try to pace myself and complete it early so I can actually enjoy the Holidays. I enjoy baking and so now I have time to bake a couple of things for the Holiday when Stan naps. Last night I made cookies for Anthony to take to his religious class today for their little party. Right before Stan was diagnosed we had just finished building our dream kitchen so I truly enjoy cooking and baking when time allows!
Sorry to hear of your vertigo problem! I get it once in a while from sinus infections,(before I had sinus surgery) but not as severe as yours and it is scary for me so cannot imagine what you must feel! My mom had vertigo about 19 years ago so had to fly over to help her out and it thru her into a panic. I hope the meds can help you and not have one more thing to worry about. Amazing how stress upset one's body!
Stan had a headache in the back of his head today and had them a couple of weeks ago...not sure how severe since he takes vicadin every 3 hours so not sure how much is being masked by that. I am keeping an eye on him, the best I can do. He goes on Dec. 28th for his scans. We get the results on Jan. 2nd.
Thanks Conan for all your support and kind words and words of wisdom.
God Bless You,
Kim oh yes, will look forward to the surprise! Enjoy your parents as I know they are arriving soon!
jan-01
01-03-2007, 08:57 AM
Hi there, I m a new visitor to the Board, based in Ireland, and regrettably am here in desperation.
I have read some of your stories and am filled with mixed emotions from saddness to frustration to encouragement.
My sister, 24 has secondary Lung cancer Osteo Sarcoma, and is fighting a brave battle - but time is running out for her.
She has three times beaten it off with chemo- and now best advice from Irish Oncologists is the chemo is not working this time. (they are trying a drug called Avastin next)
Unfortunately, it is only recently we have started looking at Alterantive treatments.- Supplements & Juices etc.
There are some encouraging stories out there of people with stage 4 Lung Cancer, who have pulled through but I know the odds are very slim..
Not giving up hope- but need some advice in relation to Homeopathy, Holisitc meds etc.?
We are considering the 'Paracelsus Clinic' in Switzerland and 'Dove Clinic' in London -also sending records to Sloan Kettering for Second opinion.
if anyone has ideas or pointers we would appreciate them.
She is very weak and may not be able to travel any where if she does not improve. -
We will exhaust every avenue, but time is not on our side.
Praying hard.
I have read some of your stories and am filled with mixed emotions from saddness to frustration to encouragement.
My sister, 24 has secondary Lung cancer Osteo Sarcoma, and is fighting a brave battle - but time is running out for her.
She has three times beaten it off with chemo- and now best advice from Irish Oncologists is the chemo is not working this time. (they are trying a drug called Avastin next)
Unfortunately, it is only recently we have started looking at Alterantive treatments.- Supplements & Juices etc.
There are some encouraging stories out there of people with stage 4 Lung Cancer, who have pulled through but I know the odds are very slim..
Not giving up hope- but need some advice in relation to Homeopathy, Holisitc meds etc.?
We are considering the 'Paracelsus Clinic' in Switzerland and 'Dove Clinic' in London -also sending records to Sloan Kettering for Second opinion.
if anyone has ideas or pointers we would appreciate them.
She is very weak and may not be able to travel any where if she does not improve. -
We will exhaust every avenue, but time is not on our side.
Praying hard.
conan1017
01-03-2007, 12:40 PM
jan-01-
First let me say "Welcome to the board!" I hope your time here in some way helps you on this journey, that none us wish we were on.
I share and understand the mixed bag of emotions you are experiencing and so does everyone who is in this battle. Having said that, this board is simply made up of caring people like yourself who desperately want their loved one to get well, as well as some courageous and precious poeple who are battling and suffering this disease, but care enough to share with us.
I started this thread in hopes that someone might shed some insight on alternative medicines that could make a difference for someone. I have read, and read, and read, and still I know of no magic cures. Cancer if a formidable foe and the only success stories I have found involve a holistic approach which begins with an individuals determintion to fight and live. They must give it all they have and undeniably need a strong support base/care giver like yourself. To have success against cancer, we have to attack the cancer and yet maintain the health of the one being treated, BOTH physical and emotionally/spiritually. That requires our intimate involvement and TLC.
Considering alternative medicines, I believe (from my reading) that there are some supplements that may help the body do its part in fight the caner, BUT will usually require the aid of convetional treatments. There difference being, while cancer may eventually become non-responsive to chemo and other convetional/clinical treatments, the same is not true for supplements that inhance and boost the killer cell activity in our bodies naturak defenses. My personal view is that advanced cancer doesn't permitt enough time for an effective immune system to make a difference, it is simply overwhelmed. Chemo and other drugs are much more agressive, but also wear on the immune system. So in my amatuer opinion, we need supplements that COMPLIMENT convetional treatment that are currently EFFECTIVE. That is the path we have choosen using supplements specified earlier in this thread. My wife appears to be making slow progress (need an updated scan to see) and has been infection free whille the rest of us continue to get colds and bugs.
Lastly, diet and exercise are huge ...HUGE factors. It makes no sense to think our bodies can fight such a vicious enemy as cancer without being phycially able. The better our loved one feels, the more they will fight (which includes pain management). There are no promises or magic solutions that I am aware of, we just have to give all we can, try to make good decisions based on what we know and trust God that is" working all things together for good". If in the end we lose our loved one, at least he/she will know how much we loved them by our effort in giving them the best care we could.
God bless and keep in touch,
conan
First let me say "Welcome to the board!" I hope your time here in some way helps you on this journey, that none us wish we were on.
I share and understand the mixed bag of emotions you are experiencing and so does everyone who is in this battle. Having said that, this board is simply made up of caring people like yourself who desperately want their loved one to get well, as well as some courageous and precious poeple who are battling and suffering this disease, but care enough to share with us.
I started this thread in hopes that someone might shed some insight on alternative medicines that could make a difference for someone. I have read, and read, and read, and still I know of no magic cures. Cancer if a formidable foe and the only success stories I have found involve a holistic approach which begins with an individuals determintion to fight and live. They must give it all they have and undeniably need a strong support base/care giver like yourself. To have success against cancer, we have to attack the cancer and yet maintain the health of the one being treated, BOTH physical and emotionally/spiritually. That requires our intimate involvement and TLC.
Considering alternative medicines, I believe (from my reading) that there are some supplements that may help the body do its part in fight the caner, BUT will usually require the aid of convetional treatments. There difference being, while cancer may eventually become non-responsive to chemo and other convetional/clinical treatments, the same is not true for supplements that inhance and boost the killer cell activity in our bodies naturak defenses. My personal view is that advanced cancer doesn't permitt enough time for an effective immune system to make a difference, it is simply overwhelmed. Chemo and other drugs are much more agressive, but also wear on the immune system. So in my amatuer opinion, we need supplements that COMPLIMENT convetional treatment that are currently EFFECTIVE. That is the path we have choosen using supplements specified earlier in this thread. My wife appears to be making slow progress (need an updated scan to see) and has been infection free whille the rest of us continue to get colds and bugs.
Lastly, diet and exercise are huge ...HUGE factors. It makes no sense to think our bodies can fight such a vicious enemy as cancer without being phycially able. The better our loved one feels, the more they will fight (which includes pain management). There are no promises or magic solutions that I am aware of, we just have to give all we can, try to make good decisions based on what we know and trust God that is" working all things together for good". If in the end we lose our loved one, at least he/she will know how much we loved them by our effort in giving them the best care we could.
God bless and keep in touch,
conan
easyrun262
01-03-2007, 04:01 PM
Hi Group- I too believe in complimentary alternative medicines. However if I were to injest every herb, root, mineral, and vitamin that was suggested by good well meaning people, my body would not tolerate such.
The various treatment alternatives available can confuse and actually strain our already strained emotional being. I keep it simple. I take direction from my oncologist. I keep it simple. I find support from members of this health board. I keep it simple. I place my destiny to a higher power. Best to you... Tom
The various treatment alternatives available can confuse and actually strain our already strained emotional being. I keep it simple. I take direction from my oncologist. I keep it simple. I find support from members of this health board. I keep it simple. I place my destiny to a higher power. Best to you... Tom
conan1017
01-03-2007, 10:12 PM
i Tom-
Haven't seen you in a while ...how are things going? Good I hope.
I'm not sure I'm following your commentary here. As far as natural supplements are concerned, it is not a toleration issue per se. It is true that some known supplements may create problems with conventional treatments and thus do more harm than good. Unless you are allergic to herbs/roots or have complicated digestive problems, toleration is not an issue in moderation. However, the things we have a problem tolerating are that which the oncologists give us. The right supplements just may help you better tolerate the poisons you injest in treatment.
Lastly, I am not familiar with natural supplements that strain one emotionally. But chemo therapy on the other hand ....well that can put you on an emotional rollercoaster. One thing we should all be weary of hearsay ...even from an oncologist. Simple means different things to different people I guess, but our family doctor "kept it simple" ....so simple that he missed practically every sign that my wife had lung cancer. As for me, I cannot nod my head at every word that comes out of a physician's mouth (thats what landed us at stage 4). I am going to question, research and challenge every thing that doesn't make obvious sense. I wish you the best Tom and hope the path your on lead to a full recovery.
Peace and grace,
Haven't seen you in a while ...how are things going? Good I hope.
I'm not sure I'm following your commentary here. As far as natural supplements are concerned, it is not a toleration issue per se. It is true that some known supplements may create problems with conventional treatments and thus do more harm than good. Unless you are allergic to herbs/roots or have complicated digestive problems, toleration is not an issue in moderation. However, the things we have a problem tolerating are that which the oncologists give us. The right supplements just may help you better tolerate the poisons you injest in treatment.
Lastly, I am not familiar with natural supplements that strain one emotionally. But chemo therapy on the other hand ....well that can put you on an emotional rollercoaster. One thing we should all be weary of hearsay ...even from an oncologist. Simple means different things to different people I guess, but our family doctor "kept it simple" ....so simple that he missed practically every sign that my wife had lung cancer. As for me, I cannot nod my head at every word that comes out of a physician's mouth (thats what landed us at stage 4). I am going to question, research and challenge every thing that doesn't make obvious sense. I wish you the best Tom and hope the path your on lead to a full recovery.
Peace and grace,