Hi All:wave: Thought I would open up another thread for the parents to come and offer support for one another. Of course any advice from experience from those who are Bipolar and were diagnosed in their teens would be quite welcome since it would be nice to see what is in store for our kids futures and what might be helpful in helping them find what we are all looking for....S T A B I L I T Y:blob_fire

Oh how we need to know that there is some hope and that this diagnosis is not the worst thing and that the future for our kids will be okay. IN any case it is wonderful to be amongst others who are going through the same thing, some a little bit ahead on this journey and others a little behind....either way it is a Godsend, at least for me, to know that I am not alone in all of this and coming here has been what has kept me going from day to day.....what a wonderful place to be.

Anyway...I know that there were some problems with the other thread and there is a way to read the new posts by doing a quick reply and then hitting advanced search and then scrolling down but I thought it might just be easier to just open up an whole new thread.

Hope ~ The things you are experiencing with the school is typical...don't take it personally there is always something or somebody else to blame so that they can rationalize not spending the extra money but you and Zac are entitled to whatever services are available by law and that is why you should get the classification and have him evaluated to determine his needs and the school will have to meet those needs and if not provide another way to and pay for it. Don't give up.....they are hoping that you will crawl away with your tail between your legs but we won't let you. Research and find a parent advocate from your local Mental Health or Child Help services to help assist you. Remember, it's the squeaky wheel that get's oiled!!!;)

Pippin ~ Thanks for stopping by and giving us an update. Here is what I wrote to you in the other thread....

Pippin ~ When it comes to hugs there are plenty to go around here!!! So pretend that we are all here gathered around you and take it all in big GROUP ((((((HUGS)))))))) are here for the taking, Pippin!!!

I am so sorry to hear about the lack of support you are getting from your family....I know it is difficult to see the ones that you would think should be supportive being such ignoramouses!! Shame on them!!! They will come around, Pippin. I remember when Erin was so chronically sick with esophageal reflux disease as an infant and I told my MIL that we couldn't come visit her because it would mean Erin losing all the weight that I worked so hard to get on her she thought I was just making excuses. Well it turned out that we had a family christening to go to and my MIL was with us and Erin would not sleep or eat she was miserable unless at home. My MIL volunteered to take her home and when I got home she apologized telling me that all this time she thought I was making excuses but saw firsthand how badl Erin did outside her own home. So you just try not to worry too much about your family's lack of empathy at this time.....you just focus on Erika and your marriage and your own health. We are your family that will carry you through so just take the support that is there for you and hopefully in time your family will come around.

So relieved to hear from you....I was really worried about you....don't do that again...okay??? You don't have to come here to support us.....we are here to help you through so please don't stay away....we need you and we are all in this together. PLEASE remember that.

Now for another one of those group ((((((HUGS)))))).....we all seem to be here tonight and there are an endless supply of hugs available here.

((((HUGS)))) to help carry your through ~ Goody :angel: :wave:

Hope everyone is doing okay with their Christmas plans and that we all remember that there IS a light at the end of the tunnel for our kids and together we will find it!!

Love and plenty of (((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Thanks, Goody. I think the school was surprised with how much I knew and I did not let them off the hook! Time to be aggressive!

Here's what I wrote on the other thread (hopefully Tsohl can find this!!):

Hi All,

Yesterday was a really frustrating day. We spoke with the tdoc, who Zac loves and who has alot of experience with bipolar because of his son, but we couldn't help but feel that his bad experience has colored his thinking. Without meaning to, he painted a very dismal picture and we left confused and unhappy.

We then went to the school to discuss classification and they were very resistant (not surprisingly since classification represents a financial investment from them). The whole conversation was upsetting because I hate that feeling they exude which is that somehow Zac's challenges are in part because of our inferior parenting. They don't come out and say it, but it feels like there is an underlying current. Perhaps you haven't set enough boundaries, they ask? Perhaps you have allowed him to manipulate you? I feel like screaming! Zac started having emotional issues in the Middle School and there was not a single resource offered from the school. (and we are supposedly one of the best school systems in the state) I hate that feeling that our child has fallen out of their range of concern because they have to focus on the kids who are "doing what they are supposed to be doing". It's maddening!

I have felt so totally alone in this process (other than all of you), researching, trying to find the right pdocs and tdocs, investigating what's available, trying to figure out what's next, and never losing sight of Zac, the human being. And I feel like they sit in judgement of him and of us. UGH!

In any event, I'm venting again, but everytime we take a step forward, it feels like we take two steps backward and I am disgusted and appalled that the school is so difficult.

We are taking Zac to the primary care doctor to decide if he needs an EKG. His pulse was at 138 for about 6 hours the night he was having the problem and his chest stll aches a little. We thought about taking him to the ER, but my friend, the nurse, assured us he didn't need to go unless it jumped to 150 and our experiences at the ER have been less than satisfying. We don't want to be negligient, either, though.

2007 has to be better than this year. I'm thinking of all of you as the holiday draws closer and hope that you can all find peace and contentment.

Love,

Hope

Hi,
I've found you. Are we abandoning the other thread? ~ Tsohl

Hey guys....the other one was getting a little bit long so it may be a good idea to come here....Pippin should be able to find us or as the originator of her thread post on there if she doesn't find us here. I vote we stay here....we need a new road to tread on anyway since the New Year is almost upon us.:jester:

Besides...as far as I am concerned nobody ever is left abandoned on this wonderful board!!;)

Hope ~ You should push forward with that IEP so that things will be layed in place shortly after the New Year begins. There are wonderful resources available to guide you and wonderful people out there to help advocate for you if you should need them. Don't let this get you down....you will find the right education for Zac....how does he feel about returning to school??? I know that all of us have re-prioritized things since our kids have been diagnosed....right now I think we all would agree that our kids mental and emotional well being is at the top of the list and then we take it from there. Even if Zac receives education at home or an alternative program it will be much better than putting him in an environment that will only cause him mental and emotional stress. You will know when he is ready to go back to school and what provisions should be made for him. And you should expect nothing less.

(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Hope,

i dont really feel like i should give advice, because we are battleling with this every day in our house too..The racing pulse and and chest aches can be anxiety..Believe me, my son has abused benzos like klonopins and xanaxs in the past so, im not big on them..but, they do help sometimes..to calm things down. If prescribed by his doc of course ,occasionally..i m pretty sure i read that you had an issue with zac and drugs..but think about asking his pdoc if its a good idea for you to have them in the house for emergencys like that..believe im not a fan of hospital emergency rooms either...and try my hardest not to take him there...3 days ago,he told me his chest was hurting and he felt his heart beating so fast..i did give him a xanax and he calmed down...just my thoughts!!

Hope,
I'm hear to tell you that it is my firm belief that many of these "Professionals" in the field of education and mental health do not know bipolarity nor do they understand it at all. We spent $13,000 plus airfare on a 4 week program in Florida that advertised and had the reputation of treating bipolar young adults. In reality they lumped it in together with the other "mood disorders" and I saw nothing to indicate they actually understood what it was all about.

I know how you feel about the "bad parenting" reaction. I don't know about "Classification" -- what it is, etc.

What did the tdoc say to you? Isn't his son doing well now?

I have to run for now. Hopefully will have more to add later.
best,
Tsohl

Ts, can you tell me the name of that place in florida? does it have the word "water" in it? i know florida has a ton of recovery centers.. i was researching one and am curious to know if thats it?

THANKS

Hi All,

The tdoc's son is doing OK now, but he really is not the same kid at all. It sounds like he is functional, but had serious ramifications from drug use and is living a much more compromised life than any of us would want for our children. It makes it tough because I think the tdoc has seen one of the worst extremes and it colors his thinking. On the other hand, Zac likes him and he is well connected with the school and can help us there so we're staying with him for now.

Classification in the public school system gives us access to more services if we need it, but it has financial implications for the school and they resist it at all costs. (no pun intended!) I still don't understand everything about it, but I want it so I have options down the road. My sense is that Zac can go back part-time to the high school, but will have to have home instruction for a part of the day and classification helps with that. He is having tremendous issues with axniety, to Jules' point, and we have to tread carefully.

I do believe the racing heart is due to anxiety, but with the new med of Abilify, I want to make sure it's nothing more. The anxiety is becoming as much of a problem as anything else, as is the angry outbursts which seem to come from nowhere. He swings from anxious to even to angry very quickly, which tells me we are not yet where we need to be with the meds.

Goody, thanks for the postive reinforcement with the school system. My niece is a Vice-Principal at an elementary school in our state and she has volunteered to go with us to the next meeting. I am researching like crazy and rallying my resources. It is frustrating and time-consuming, but I know we'll get there.

Tsohl, how is your back?

Jules, when is next pdoc meeting for your son? Please make sure you let us know how that goes.

Happy Holidays to all!

Love,

Hope

Hey guys!! Glad everyone made the move to the new thread.

Jules~ No, that wasn't a part of the name. This place was in Clearwater and I would NOT recommend it.

Thanks for explaining more about the school issues, Hope. I missed all that. Our kids went to a private prep school and our son's two friends who needed more help eventually left as a private school is not able to handle kids with educational issues that fall too far off the norm. The one girl went to the school on the grounds of the private mental hospital which was really terrific for her, and the guy went to a public high school and was able to handle a regular school load. This may sound kind of crazy but our son played hockey at an elite level and I think it helped him manage whatever stress and anxiety he had. All through high school he had a rigid, busy schedule that he seemed to thrive on. I would notice a difference in him when he was in the down times when he wasn't skating all the time.(for the worse) I think he probably was burning off some of those feelings when he was skating. He didn't have much time to sit around and think about things. I may be totally wrong here, but I think he functions best when he has a task to accomplish or a goal to strive for.

One problem with the drug use is that I guess there isn't a way to know if the drug use was caused by the symptoms of bipolarity or if bipolarity is induced by the use of drugs. There seem to be two schools of thought on this, from what I've read. I personally believe our son's drug use intensified his bipolar issues. It was not until he totally quit all drug and alcohol use that the pdoc was able to find the drugs that stabilized him.

Hope all your kids are doing ok and will be able to find some joy in the approaching holidays! And you, too, moms and dads!! MERRY CHRISTMAS. regards, Tsohl

Hope, your whole paragraph about zacs angry outbursts is exactly what we have here with my son..Coming out of nowhere..Its like hes wound very tight..and is suffering alot of anxiety too! His next appt. is dec 29 and his doc did tell him if he'd like, he should bring his mom..so ,im going too.

ts, the place i was talking about is in melbourne fla...thanks

Jules,
What type of program is the one in Melbourne, Fl? Is it a program for those with co-dependency?

How is your son doing? Will he "allow" you to go to the pdoc with him? I've never met a single one of my son's pdocs...but when he started down this road, he was living 1000 miles away and I didn't even know he had problems!
In a way, you're lucky that he's still living under your roof and you have some control over him. best, Tsohl

Ts, yes i am very lucky that hes living in our home and i can see whats happening. But, sometimes i wish he didnt live home, because i see whats happening...understand? He says when hes 21 and gets a full time job he s moving out. we shall see. The place in florida is a recovery center for substance abuse,they have a team of psychitrists. its dual-diagnosis. The agreement we have here is that if he tests positive for drugs, he goes there or he moves out. Like i've said in the past, i cannot tolerate drug abuse,but, i would do everything in my power to help him with his bi-polar issues. I definitly see that hes not using drugs and hes taking his prescribed medications. Its just hard, because whenever i think hes doing well, something happens .like he has a violent outburst or gets very depressed.. so, everyday is still an adventure. I know until he takes ownership of all this he will never be fully stable. I just want to have a nice peaceful Christmas and have told him that...

Dear Jules,

I know how difficult this can be and I hear how weary you are. Try to pace yourself as best you can. This is so hard because we want our children to be well and to get on with their lives as best they can.

I am interested in the dual diagnosis facility in Florida. Do you live near there or was it recommended as the right place to go? We are investigating dual diagnosis facilities, just in case we need them. You said it was in Melbourne?

Hope the holidays are peaceful for everyone. We all deserve it, as do our children!

Love,

Hope

Hi ladies,
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl

Hi ladies,
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl

Hi ladies,
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl

Yes, florida is full of addiction programs. The place i am talking about does mostly specialize in the addiction part. so, you are right about that ts. I do agree with trying to keep it local so families can be more involved. hope, there is a good program in queens very close to long island.. The Zucker Hillside hospital..I know one of us did speak about it in the past.. The problem i have here is that my son refuses to go anywhere. And, i cant force him to because hes 20..So far, we are managing. Like i said 1day at a time.. If you are interested in florida, check out Watershed.. they have a web-site.

Hope, sorry, you misunderstood.. i live on long island, n.y..my parents live in florida..and i made a mistake ,its not melbourne its in boynton beach and boca...i dont know why i said melbourne..sorry for the confusion.:)

Hi All,

To all of you - I'm very interested in any and all input about dual diagnosis facilities. That was recommended by the inpatient program and I am resistant for the same reasons Tsohl mentioned. (I'd love ALL of your thoughts and experiences on this, Tsohl.)

Like everyone, I'm trying to get ready for the holidays, but I'll write more later. As always, we're in flux.

Love to all,

Hope

Hi,
I'll think about what I have to say about facilities we looked into and will write more later. I have company and am doing lots of cooking and haven't wrapped any gifts yet!!

Try not to despair over your children. Be grateful you know where they are and that you have a relationship with them. Things seem really tough right now, but because you are all such strong moms, I have faith that your kids will come around. It may take awhile, but with your love and guidance they will eventually realize that they must take charge of their B.D. Things are far from hopeless. They have a condition that can be managed and they can lead wonderful, healthy lives. You're all on the right path. You must just be patient and positive and loving.

I wish you all a Merry Christmas.
love,
Tsohl

Hi,
I hope you guys had a wonderful christmas.. we for the most part did. My son had a couple of violent outbursts that made us very nervous..and alot of palpitations that subsided when i gave him a xanax. Im thinking that this week i will find him a new doctor. I feel like hes not being treated with the right medication..Hes extremely moody and thats not getting better on seroquel..all that does is help him sleep. I hate the idea of starting from scratch with somebody , but he feels like he wants a new doc, so i cant tell him no..i have to try and help him. the angry mean outbursts have to stop! its just not normal for a 20 yr. old not to get a better grip on his moods...its sad and pathetic for him..he feels bad afterwards.. i just wish i had some names of pdocs on long island..i hate going in cold..any suggestions? anybody from ny?

Hi All,

Hope you all had a wonderful holiday. We did, as best we could, considering all the loss this year.

Jules, I don't have a recommendation for a pdoc, but I would suggest you get several names and call them first. Have a llist of questions ready (e.g. their familiarity with bipolar, how often are they willing to changes meds, etc. - anything you want to know). I was surprised when my pdoc told me he limits his practice to 4 bipolar teens at a time because they are so time-consuming. He wasn't being mean - just honest - and my son is one of his four, but it's something to think about. You might also want to try some of the teaching hospitals in NY, too, to see if they have any recommendations.

To me, learning to manage BP is a race against time. Our sons are young and have their whole lives in front of them and we want them to keep moving! We are also hindered some times because while they, too, want to feel better, they don't always make the best choices for themselves.

I'll write more later, but just wanted to let you know I'm here for you!

Tsohl, thanks for the support for all of us! You always make me feel hopeful!


Love,

Hope

Hello ladies,

I think Goody is in the Long Island vicinity. Goody: We need some help here!!!

We had a lovely Christmas...the very normal, regular kind. It was an absolute joy to see our son be able to sit through the entire day, participating and just sitting around doing nothing without getting antsy and irritable as a result. I clearly remember times not so long ago that it made us uncomfortable to have him around because it took so much effort for him to try to sit and participate...so, there is hope for all of you!!

Jule, I would definitely look for another pdoc if you don't have faith in this one, and particularly, if your son doesn't relate to him. We didn't have any choice in our son's treatment as he began when away at college and took it all upon himself...so we've always just followed his lead. He was the one who came to us and said he felt he needed to go to a residential dual diagnosis treatment program. He did the research and gave us the one he had selected and then I checked it out and looked into some others, as well. But we knew if his choice was at all ok, since it was the one he had picked out, we knew he would be more compliant and willing to follow through on it.

Our son also took seroquel when he couldn't sleep. What else is your son taking? Does he have a mood stabilizer? Is there some doubt about him being bipolar? I should go back through your posts but it's easier just to ask you again!!

Hope's suggestions for finding a new pdoc were all very good ones. It takes time to find the right doc but it is definitely worth it. You could also call your local chapter of NAMI and see if they would have any recommendations.

I have company here the rest of the week so had best close for now. I'll write more when I have more time. Glad to hear your Christmas was without major drama. best, Tsohl

Hi all, hope everyones holidays were good. My daughter Sierra is 13 and was diagnosed at age 8...thats just the little re-cap. Anyway, we had a decent holiday, a few outbursts from sierra, but she has been a little better the last week I guess. We have been having a heck of a time with her school, and I requested a CSE meeting for her and got it on jan 3rd. The school has not been compliant with her iep at all, and no one there gets it or understands the problem. One teacher in particular has been a royal bagga-douche...anyway, I finally called the superintendent and vociferously complained. I am SICK of that school totally but i live in a rural area and there is only about 700 students in the entire elementary junior and senior high schools. The lack of communication between departments is appalling, and I am REALLLLLY frustrated. Also been feeling pretty down and tired myself, it wears you out after a while taking care of your BP child's needs and I have 4 other girls to boot who need me. I try the best I can, but lord knows I am not perfect. Anyway that is my news from my tiny neck of the woods, hope everyone's new year is great.

Well, i was able to get him an appt. today.. hes there now..its amazing how we can move mountains for our kids..Remember he is 20 yrs old..not a minor..i did call the doc and speak to him a little about my son and his behaviour..just gave him a quick background. i did telll him i would like to go with him today, but the doc disagread andtold me he'd rather see him alone for an hour today to gain some trust!

He also assured methat if HE feels like he needs to see me or my husband, he will let us know...this can go either way today, my son could hate him or love him.
ts, hes on seroquel and effexor..thats it. Christmas was ok, but its like we are always skating around him as to not set him off..you know what i mean?
i do think he needs additional meds..but im not a doctor as he tells me all the time...we shall see...thanks everybody!

Hi, everyone:wave: Sorry if you thought I had abandoned you all here....things have been so busy trying to keep up with Erin's needs and my brother being in the hospital for over 2 weeks. Hubby travelled and joined my other brother and the two of them knocked out building a handicapped ramp so that my brother could get into the house once he was discharged home. This was all the day before Christmas Eve....and thank God my brother was discharged home. The doctor still is quite worried about his condition and has advised them to bring him right back if his condition further declines but feels that it would be best for him to be amongst family. I live about 3 1/2 hours away which makes it difficult.....these are the times that I hate being so far away from family.

Anyway, Jules, Erin is treated by an Adolescent Psychiatrist but I beleive I may have a few names for you. I have to locate them and will post them when I have them handy. It has been extremely difficult for me to find a decent psychiatrist...as a matter of fact, just to get Erin her next month's meds I had to schedule her with the psychiatrist who misdiagnosed her in the first place.....the state is done with us and the only appointment I could get with anybody soon enough to get meds was with the psychiatrist she had seen before the state took over. We are on a waiting list for a psychiatrist who comes highly recommended who works with adolescents and is good with meds in treating Bipolar. He may also treat adults. His name is Dr. Neil Rosen and he is in the Huntington area. Your son is now considered an adult....I have a friend who has a son who is older and I will see if I could get some info from her that may help you out. It may take me a while with the holidays....we are preparing to leave for a few days to be with my brother and my side of the family so I promise to help out ASAP.

Who knows....perhaps this new pdoc may be one I come up with and it may give you some peace of mind at least. Let us know how things go once he comes back from his appointment.

To all you wonderful people here who continue to sustain me through the difficult moments and share in the triumphs as well....I hope you had a very Merry Christmas and that the New Year to come is one in which we move closer to stability with our children. I know that there is much to be thankful for....as for me, things are so much better than the beginning of this year and they can only get better. I just feel blessed to have this place to come where I can always find the support and comfort to help me through it all.

((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Wow! I'm impressed you got an appointment so quickly. I'll be eager to hear how your son felt about the new guy. It's good he (the pdoc) was willing to speak with you.

I guess Seroquil is frequently used to treat irritability. And I DO know what you mean about the "skating around."

Hope this new pdoc works out well. They each seem to have their own ideas on how to medicate! best, Tsohl

Thanks guys, hope i will take those names whenever you get the time..Yes, he is an adult not considered an adolosent.
He did have a visit today with a new pdoc, he came home looking a little better. The doc didnt give him any medication at all today he told him to come back next week and he will talk about medications then. I think he wanted to get to know him a little first..Does that make sense? I am confused. I mean this is only the 2nd doctor and i know they are all different,but im still confused. My son liked him, he said he was very normal and laid back. He told my son, that he could see how tightly wound up he is..could even seee that he was having trouble catching his breath. He has an appt.next week. I guess we just have to hope to have a good week here!

I appreciate the concern..thanks again

Hope, sorry i meant goody, when i was asking for the names of pdocs...

Hi All,

Just a quick note to let you all know I'm still here.

I am becoming a professional mourner. My brother-in-law's mother passed away yesterday - 5 weeks to the day my sister passed away! Although she was older and it's not a shock, I can't believe we have to go through another funeral again. At least this one should not affect Zac as much.

We had a relatively good Christmas, all things considered.

Jules, I'm so happy to hear about the new pdoc! Keep us posted!

I have lots to share, but I'm getting ready to go to my brother-in-law's. All of the kids are flying in today from around the country and there are airport pick-ups, etc.

Happy New Year to all. May 2007 be kind to our children and to us!

Love,

Hope

Pippin here! I've been jumping the hoops here and once again thought I had made progress with educating family members and as a result garnered a little more support and understanding. Not a lot but baby steps work for me. Anyhoo, Erika just returned from a visit with her Dad. They went to his wife's parent's home in Erie, PA. When Erika returned home she told us she hadn't taken her morning dose all week and seemed fine. Her morning dose consists of 1/2 of her daily lithium and 1/4 of her Geodon. I was naturally distressed when hearing this because I have worked so hard with her to keep her med compliant and get her stabilized. I have been able to step back but my husband now thinks she has been manipulating us all this time. She said she knew she had to hide it as much as possible because her Dad would hit her but my current husband is not having any of it. He has already started separating himself by going to his train room. I am so tired of having to convince people to learn and understand. Here are my questions-I appreciate any feedback you can give me. Are there any split families with a bipolar who is able to curb the negative outward symptoms when around the other parent? Is it fair to expect my current husband to seek his own answers?
For those who know me-I had a squamous carcinoma removed from my calf in Nov. It grew back within 2 weeks so I had to have it, along with a chunk of healthy tissue, removed last week-13 stitches-not too bad. Hopefully he got it all this time. Here's my funny with it-while the doc was filleting my calf I was listening to CD's about raising teenagers. I told him I had to zone out-it worked! For all you fair-skinned people-I was never one to lay out in the sun. I was never a sunbather although I have always liked swimming and being around the water. My "bump" didn't look like what I have seen in pictures. Mine was light pink-almost flesh toned, round, itchy, and sometimes flakey, slightly raised. The size somewhere between a nickel and a dime. Don't ignore. Not usually malignant but can be if let go.
Look forward to hearing from you! Happy New Year!:wave: Pippin

Hello, Everybody:wave: And Pippin, thanks for checking in, I do hope that you get some feedback from others who are in the "split family" situation....I know that second marriages and stepparenting are difficult enough...add Bipolar into the equation and that makes things so much more of a challenge.

Just to straighten the facts out a little bit...as I recall, you are almost certain that your ex hubby is Bipolar but he denies it....am I correct?? And I am having a little difficulty following what exactly is happening in your family dynamics. Erika is compliant when with you, but decided on her own that she didn't need to take her morning doses of meds while visiting with her dad. Did you confirm this with your ex??? I am a little mixed up....Erika didn't tell your ex because she was afraid of what he would do (hit her)....I don't know, Pippin, but it could very well be that Erika is playing you, I mean if she truly understands the importance of taking her meds as perscribed and how important that is then why all of a sudden decide on her own to not take them knowing that her dad might get upset by that??? I know that a big thing that happens when Erin gets unstable is her distorting the truth and almost pitting hubby and I against one another so that the focus is taken off of her?? Do you think that there is a possibility that she is doing this?? And what about her Lithium levels....surely they will be affected by her readjustment of her meds. When is she due for a recheck?? Perhaps a call into her pdoc is warranted. As far as Erika being able to curb her behavior whether in a split family or not our kids are certainy able to curb their behavior with those they feel they need to have in their camp...peers, teachers, friends, coaches and yes father's who could possibly assist them in accomplishing their goal of getting what they want at the time. So many Bipolar kids are able to hold it together in the classroom and at school but let loose at home with their families because that is where they feel safest and where they know that they will not have ill effects from their behavior as they would if they had done the same in school or when around their peers. So many times I have heard and read about parents being told what a wonderful child they have and the parent wondering if they are talking about the same kid who at home says the most horrible things and has the household in such turmoil. So yes, Pippin, it is possible that Erika can hold it together at your hubby's and not at your home.

I got such a kick out of your story about listening to your parenting CD...just goes to show how proactive us mom's can be and how by doing so we c an be distracted from all those lemons that are being thrown our way.;) I do hope that they have gotten all of those cancer cells and that you will not have any more calf fileting to contend with. To think that you can stay so positive and reach out to us when so much is going on in your life....I find that by doing so things don't seem so bad and it is easier to get through all of this.

Jules....when is your son's next pdoc appointment??? Some of the doctors that I came up with are a Dr.Yogendra Upadhyay who is at South Oaks/Amityville area and a Dr. Doug Marcus in the Amityville/Great Neck area. I am not sure that they are just adolescent or adult so you may want to check into them. I will mention more as they come to mind or through some of the resources that I am in contact with.

Hope ~ I am so sorry to hear about yet another loss for your family. I know that this is not easy and that we of course worry about the overall effect this will have on our kids. I am going through a similar thing with my brother and his declining health. We had our family reunion at my other brother's house and witnessed how rapidly this neurological disorder is taking over my brother's life. Several times he went into violent tremors that had him almost falling out of the recliner he was lying in all the time aware of his surroundings and unable to control what was happening. These episodes were 20 miinutes in length and it was so painful to only be able to rub his leg as he rode it out knowing that there was very little more we could do until the meds kicked in. We got a call yesterday that he was brought back to the hospital because now he is unable to pee and may be going into kidney failure. Each time he is hospitalized his condition further declines. Last night as we celebrated with friends I got a call from my brother wishing me a Happy New Year and telling me that he was on his way home from the hospital with a catheter in place to collect his urine. He told me that they think that his condition has led to a nerogenic bladder in which he has no sensation of when his bladder is full and that from what they explained is irreversible. The pain of yet another loss from this disorder was in my brother's voice and yet he took the time to call me to wish me a Happy New Year. I cried telling him how much I loved him and when I hung up I went to the bathroom and had my own pity party praying that some miracle would happen to make my brother better.

2006 has been a difficult year for me and my family....Erin, thank God seems to be in a good place, however, my brother I fear will not get better and our family will have to continue to bear witness to his further decline. But I still believe in miracles and this is a time that our family sure could use one.

So A Happy New Year to everyone and may we all be blessed with many steps forward in finding the stability that our kids need.

(((HUGS))) and God's blessings ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Goody, thanks for the docs names.He has a 2nd appt. this wednesday with a pdoc..he liked him the 1st visit...we shall see...you never know!. im just happy we made it thru new years eve.

Happy new years everyone..lets hope its a better year for ALL OF US!

Hello friends,
Just wanted to wish you all some joy and peace in 2007.

Goody, so sorry to hear about your brother and his deteriorating condition. It sounds like you, Hope and Pippin all have your special challenges in addition to the problems with your children. From what I've read in some of your other posts, it sounds like Erin is doing reasonably well. I look forward to hearing more about her progress in the near future. How is the play going? Did things go ok with both girls home for Christmas?

Hope~I am so sorry to hear about yet another death in your family. You must really feel like you are being given more than your share this year. How is Zac responding since he is back home?

Pippin~I, too was a bit confused by your last post regarding Erika's dad. Hope your leg is healing and that the doc got all of it this time. My MIL had a similar surgery two summers ago and then last summer on the other leg. It took awhile to heal as it left a fairly large "hole."

And Jules, has your son been off meds since going to the new pdoc or did the new pdoc just not prescribe anything yet? I will be eager to hear your comments after his next appointment. Glad he made it ok through the holidays. Hopefully things will calm down when his buddies go back to their respective colleges. Has your son thought about reducing his load for the coming semester?

We had a nice holiday and we saw more of our son than I have in recent time due to his sister being home from college and my aunt visiting for the holidays. He may be stable on his meds but he still is very intense and I find him tiring to be around for long periods!! Things are definitely livelier, and, usually, more fun, too. But this empty nester won't mind at all when things go back to normal in a few more days! Happy New Year!! best, Tsohl

Hi, Tsohl ~ Funny how you should ask about how things are going now that Kait is home. They seemed to be going well.....that is, until last night when I confronted Kait about her taking liquor from us. We have recently moved and when trying to locate some food coloring in the garage in one of the bins, as I opened one, our collection of various liquors was revealed and Kait's reaction was as if I had struck gold. I warned hubby that we should do something about it, we left for our family reunion and returned home in time to celebrate New Year's Eve with some friends. Erin had plans to be with her best friend where we use to live and Kait was going over a friend's house and spending the night. New Year's Eve day hubby was fishing and I was out getting my nails done. Shortly after we returbed Kait & Erin headed out....Kait was rather rude when we asked where she would be, she stated she was 18 and no longer should have to disclose that, hubby and I told her that as long as she lived under our roof she would and even afterwards it would be nice because even to this day if I were going to be somewhere on vacation or out of the norm that I still informed my parents. She gave me attitude....Erin did as well and off they went. Oh the day before we left for my brother's Erin had vommited 3 times....it was a night after she had some friends over and she had fallen asleep forgetting to take her meds so I had Kait bring them up to her. That night she had skipped dinner so I figured that the meds had not agreed with her on an empty stomach. I recalled how she had brought glasses down from her room after her friends left and questioned her when one smelt like alcohol and she claimed that they had only soda.

Well, after I had discovered the bin and knowing how busy it was going to be during the holidays, I set a leaf on the bin of liquor to alert me if it had been tampered with. Kait came home yesterday, New Year's Day, and was intending on going out with friends again. The previous night, when in our old town we ran into her and she told hubby that her brakes were making a funny noise. Hubby took it for a spin and said it needed checking into and to be very careful driving home and to only drive it to her friend's house and if it worstened to call us. It was pouring rain all day yesterday and we were relieved when she got home safely. Meanwhile, I went out to the bin and discovered it had been tampered with. Hubby asked Kait if she had taken any liquor from us, she said no. He did a search of her vehicle while she showered and found an entire bottle of our vodka in her car. We confronted her, told her we were disappointed that she was stealing from us and also lying. Hubby told her that her plans were off for the evening and that if she ever took anything from us again she would not be welcome to stay with us. She argued that her plans were not to be cancelled, hubby told her that they were and reminded her that her car was not safe to drive anyway. Kait insisted on being able to use one of our vehicles and we told her that we would not be lending her it because of what she had done and also she couldn't be trusted. Next thing she was heading out the door and in her car she took off. Hubby called her cell and told her that if she didn't return immediately don't even bother coming home and that we would take action to make sure she was not driving a vehicle that was dangerous. Our plan was to lock the doors and if she came back by her cufew the only way she would gain access to our home would be for her to relinquish both sets of her keys and to tell her that she is no longer welcome home on her school breaks unless she could abide by our house rules and not steal from us. We have yet to hear from her.

Okay, Tsohl, you are a little bit ahead of me here...any thoughts???

Also when Kait was confronted she mentioned how Erin was in the liquor bin as well. We confronted Erin on this and she admitted to have taken some rum and put it into a seltzer bottle and took it to her friend's house but decided not to drink it. We asked her to get it and found the bottle full. She started crying how she only wanted to experiment but that she had gotten sick when she had tried drinking in her room with her friends....that was the night that she had thrown up three times and she said that she only had a little vodka and knew how she had reacted badly and decided it wasn't worth it to do again. she started crying telling us how all kids experiment and we went over how in her case it was not a wise choice because of her beingon meds that shouldn't be mixed with other drugs or alcohol AND her predisposition to developing an addiction due to family history and our knowledge that Bipolar and drug/alcohol addictions could occur simultaneously. She cried saying that she was sorry and had learned her lesson...we told her that she had lost our trust and until it could be regained that she couldn't have friends in her room.

Kait was the only one who knew where the liquor was so I know that she intitiated everything and made sure that she had stocked up on her alcohol....she has been taking trips out to her car to talk on the phone with friends and I have a feeling that it was to drink....she smokes as well and I know that she steps out to smoke because we have told her there is not smoking, drugs or alcohol in our house. So it wouldn't surprise me that she is spending tine in her car having a drink as well. I think that Kait has more of a problem than we are aware of.....Erin got extremely upset while my parents were with me about how worried she is about Kait and how much she drinks and uses weed, this was even before Kait came home from college. The thing that bothers me is that she seems to be drinking alone now which is a huge red light to me.

I have many thoughts going on here....Kait is due to go back to college by the 7th. I am so concerned about that knowing that we may have more of a problem than she is admitting to. Tsohl, you said that your son used drugs and alcohol before things got bad and that he had some addictions to deal with....please tell me what you think we should do?? Do we allow Kait to hit rock bottom or do we take matters into our own hands?? I am upset because when we had discovered that Kait was drinking alcohol that she took from us and served to her friends in her room while we had friends over, I took her to an AA meeting and there many shared how their lives were ruined by alcohol and oneman in particular shared how it had started when he was aroun 15 with experiementation and it worstened in college and continued to do so....he graduated but by the skin of his teeth and eventually the alcohol had taken everything away from him, his job, his friends, his family and that he was now alone. He shared how he had made sure that he would always have a source of alcohol by owning a restaurant with his own stocked bar. Kait is pursuing hotel/restaurant management. That really scares me.

Okay...so here I am entering 2007 with many worries....it only lasted a day, I thought that we were in a good place with the girls and now it is starting all over. I need some input and suggestions on how I might handle this. I have some thoughts...lots of thoughts running through my mind and it would be nice to see what others here may suggest in this situation. Tsohl...perhaps you could ask your son what may have helped him when this all began,...if there was anything you could have done to help prevent what had happened....that would perhaps be a good place to start....my intuition is thata if I push too hard it may make things even worse. What can I do??? We do have the leverage of funding her college and her car. I await your suggestions.

~ Goody needing some (((HUGS))):angel: :wave:

Goody,
Besides my 20 yr old with all his issues,i have an 18 yr.old girl too. She is a senior in h.s. and very normal..Let me tell you, there is drinking all around us,just about all of these kids drink..it is amazing. I am on top of them almost 24/7,but even thats not enough..she actually told me that some of her friends parents allow it..well, not this parent.drinking age is 21 in our state. But, the driving around with the vodka in the car is a huge no-no..she might find herself in jail for a night.maybe a good thing! anyway,this parenting job is real tough stuff, we are on our toes constanley.im always trying to be one step ahead..but, it doesnt always work. i also have a little one that we are just crazy about ,i guess cause we always know where she is..when people told us little kids little problems, big kids bigger problems...they were so right..i would love to freeze her.lol...

Ok, guys...now that the aura of the new year is a couple hours behind us, it looks like the issues didn't magically disappear. Time to roll up our sleeves and get back to work..... While I agree with Jule that kids have a different attitude toward drinking today, Kait's behavior strikes me as extreme. I need to reread your post and think about it a bit before I write anything more. I have mixed feelings about ultimatums and I need to carefully examine the issues here before I feel comfortable trying to add something to the mix. But I wanted you to know that I am here for you and will be back soon. In the meantime, I send a big hug your way~and remember, Ruth :angel: is up there for consultation, too. best, Tsohl

Kait sounds like a very head-strong young woman. She strikes me as the type that probably just digs in that much harder when you issue ultimatums. Now you have to figure out if you are prepared to follow through. Are you prepared to be estranged from her if you use your financial powers over her and pull the plug, so to speak? I think your intuition has served you well in the past, and I'm guessing it will get you through this situation, too. Without knowing Kait it is difficult for me to guess how she would respond, but I'm guessing that you could very well make matters worse by issuing ultimatums. If you alienate her physically and emotionally, you will have no ability to influence her and guide her.

I share your concerns about her drinking and use of pot. It's one thing to "experiment" when among her peers, but if she is drinking on her own, you already know that is not a good thing. I can't give you much advice based on experience with our son as his situation was so different. He began using pot in high school in an attempt to control the feelings and emotions that we now know were caused by the onset of undiagnosed bipolar disorder. He did not drink or smoke to be cool or to fit in with his friends. As a matter of fact, he just recently told me that his friends were very worried about him and because of them he stopped using for months at a time. But he would go back to smoking pot because it was the only thing that made him feel even slightly under control.

It doesn't sound to me like making Kait attend AA meetings or anything along those lines will work with her. I'm sure she knows better and thinks she knows that she can handle things. I'm not sure what it will take to get through to her. Hopefully not having to "hit bottom." Our son had a wake-up call when it was time to get a full-time job after college. So many companies now perform routine drug testing even among their salaried employees and he realized he no longer could smoke pot without impunity!! If it weren't for that he might still be smoking as he still contends it made him feel more in control and more stable than any amount of lithium, lamictal or whatever. Perhaps he no longer feels this way. We haven't discussed it since just a few months after he stopped smoking.

I'm afraid I haven't been much help with any suggestions or advice for you. I will probably think of more in response to comments you make, but for now, will close. I'm sorry you're having to go through all of this on top of your worries with your brother, and of course, with Erin. Oh, one more thought....since Erin has talked to you on more than one occasion about her worries about Kait's drinking, what about talking to her now...along the line of what can you think of that we can do as a family to help her? Do you have any ideas that we haven't thought of? Not in a dividing way so she feels she has to side with her sister against the evil parents...but in the "we are family and Kait needs all our help...what are your ideas" kind of way.

I'll continue to mull and will probably have more ideas by tonight...but hopefully, the immediate drama will be over by then. best, Tsohl

Thanks, guys...it feels great coming here knowing that I have others who have been there ane done that and can help me through these tough moments. Jules, you are so right about the alcohol and experimentation....Erin was in tears yesterday telling me how all of her friends are into drinking and that even some of their friends parents serve alcohol in their homes. I explained to her how that was not responsible parenting and that I would never be one of those parents because there are severe consequences to doing that could have me or her friends in trouble and that I would never place our family in that situation. Erin went to get the alcohol from her bag and mad stop to the bathroom upstairs.....I am inclined to think that she is not being very honest with me and had added some water to make it look as if she didn't have any....I don't like the lying and deceit. AND.....in her case it is important that I get through how dangerous it is to drink or use drugs when she is on her meds. I truly think that when she threw up that she realized that but then to go take some liquor afterwards doesn't support that she has learned her lesson. She claims that the vodka didn't agree with her and that she wanted to try the rum. I told her that by doing so that she would be placing herself in a dangerous situation, that unlike her friends who weren't on meds, she had alot more to risk by drinking alcohol and using drugs and that she could really hurt herself. I reminded her of how upset she was about her Big Sister's drinking and weed use and to go and do the same was not the wisest way of dealing with it....that even though she were younger she could be a good role model for her sister and at the same time be helping herself by not taking such risks as to have an addiciton on top of her Bipolar. I think that we really need to have more of a heart to heart and I am going to tell Erin that I would rather her not be on meds for her Bipolar if she were going to be using drugs and alcohol. We have an appointment with her old pdoc this week and I am going to tell her that as her parents that we must inform him and see what he suggests we do. Perhaps we need to have it instilled that we will be doing random tests....my friend who is a probation officer gave us some home tests and I think that we will be using them on both of our girls and have consequences if they come out to be positive.

Tsohl....I do appreciate your taking the time to think this over...I too am seeing from experience that ultimatums just don'g seem to be productive. So that you can give me the best advice I need to provide and update....I looked at Kait's recent pictures on her camera and it seems that there are some of her and her friends sneaking into our other house through her window. A few months ago we took Kait's keys away and disabled the electric key pad to access through the garage. Also amongst the pictures were numerous ones of her passed out in a bathtub (a friend must have taken those) as well as some of her passed out on the floor of her dorm room in the closet rather than here bed. So this truly is of real concern to me.

I informed hubby who will be stopping by our other house....my instincts tell me that she has been spending time there and most likely spent the night there if not at our next door neighbor's house who she is friends with. I just got off the phone with my next door neighbor and she informed me that Kait's car was not at the house and that her daughter who is very good friends with Kait has shared with her how concerned she is with Kait and her excessive partying. So my instincts are real.....my neighbor went on to tell me that her daughter has disclosed to her also her concerns regarding Kait's safety with driving a car. My friend suggested that we call Kait's friends and discuss our concerns with them...I feel as if Kait is walking on a tightrope here and the way in which I handle this will impact where she goes from here. Partying is all part of college life and a reality that I cannot shield Kait from. She has to be able to balance this and make sure that it doesn't get out of hand.

Also, I called hubby who was at the house and discovered that the screen to Kait's window was slit open in order to gain access to the house.

Just got a call from the state tdoc who has been working with Erin. She is aware of the problems that Kait has undergone and feels that we need to aggressively intervene....she feels that by allowing Kait to return to college would be a big mistake....that by what I described she has definite problems with alcohol and drugs and that to not intervene at this time would be a big mistake. She even feels that we should call the police and press charges on Kait as drastic as this all sounds it will be what may save her in the end. The tdoc is on her way over to help hubby and I formulate a concrete plan in order to make sure that we can follow through with it. The only thing is that this therapist doesn't have my total confidence....she has done well but she assures me that her specialty is drug and alcohol counseling.

What do you think?? We just paid over $7000 dollars to cover the second trimester's costs. Not that should be the most important thing. The therapist is insistent that we really take things by the horns...Kait does have a free ticket to do as she pleases while at college and how will we monitor her problem long distance. PLEASE help me out here....what should we do???

Just when I thought things were in a good place...also I also worry about having Kait home an how it can lead to a bad effect on Erin. After how far we have come this is of great concern to us.

The therapist just left and it seems that she thinks that minimumly we need to inform the school of our concerns...I know that Kait was brought up before the student conduct board within a week of being in college in regard to alcohol on her possession and thinks that we need to find out what exactly became of that and then see what type of counseling services they would recommend if we were to have her continue to go there. And she also told us it might be necessary to cancel her return to college and have her work for a while and earn her keep while showing us that she is responsible and doesn't have a drinking/drug problem. The thing is how do we monitor that??? There is only so much we can do but the therapist feels that we still have time to help Kait....to wait another year may be too late.

Oh geez....I just never know what is going to come my way. The therapist wants us to make copies of the pictures to show Kait why we have concern.

Any input you may have for us would be much appreciated....Jules I know that your 20 year old is home and perhaps you can tell me what it would be like if your were just getting your Bipolar 15 year old stabilized and then bring in an older sibling who is showing signs of alcohol/drug problems. I feel as if I have two kids drowning and don't know who to save first. On the other hand....our intervention with Kait may help Erin out by her seeing that we are just as concerned about her sister as we are of her and how we address it will make a big difference of showing Erin that there are no double standards set in our household. Erin is equally concerned as we are.....I know that to not do anything will show Erin in someway that we have given up on Kait and that certainly is not the message we want to give her or anyone.

Ruth, if ever I needed your intervention it would be right about now!!:angel: I know that you are still that angel who will intervene on our behalf and I really could use it right about now.

Still needing (((HUGS))) and reassurrance ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Goody,
i feel so bad for what you are going thru now. nobody can ever imagine how hard this is.dealing with kids this age and then have isssues on top of it..as far as school is concerned,my feel is it needs to go on the back burner until things are taken care of with the drinking and drugs etc.. We wasted a whole semester at least 10.000$ on my son this past year..started with 15 credits ended with 6 credits because of the bipolar,drinking,pills. even is doc said his health has to come first not school..and believe me we are devastated by this, because we as adults know how important college is in this day and age..im almost positive we are not sending him back this coming semester. granted he is 20 and a little older than kate..but still, he lives in our home and we pay for his education.

as far as my 18 yr old goes i know she experiments with alcohol and pot, but we never had any real problems with her..she has seen alot of crap with her brother..maybe that is a good thing in her case...she starts college in the fall,shes dorming upstate,so all i can do is pray she makes smart decisions..isnt it hard? its so easy when they are young..

about erin, i thought to myself at one point maybe my son is better off without his medications if he was going to drink. so, i know how you feel about that.. but,decided against taking them away from him..i know he has some beers with the guys now and then..but havent seen him drunk in weeks..so thats good...but, then again hes only on seroquel and effexor. you have a legititmate concern with her meds and drinking.

my daughter has told me that some of her friends drink their parents vodka and replace it with water..vodka does not have a very strong odor..so, i believe it..just writing all this turns my stomach..will it ever end?

Goody,
i feel so bad for what you are going thru now. nobody can ever imagine how hard this is.dealing with kids this age and then have isssues on top of it..as far as school is concerned,my feel is it needs to go on the back burner until things are taken care of with the drinking and drugs etc.. We wasted a whole semester at least 10.000$ on my son this past year..started with 15 credits ended with 6 credits because of the bipolar,drinking,pills. even is doc said his health has to come first not school..and believe me we are devastated by this, because we as adults know how important college is in this day and age..im almost positive we are not sending him back this coming semester. granted he is 20 and a little older than kate..but still, he lives in our home and we pay for his education.

as far as my 18 yr old goes i know she experiments with alcohol and pot, but we never had any real problems with her..she has seen alot of crap with her brother..maybe that is a good thing in her case...she starts college in the fall,shes dorming upstate,so all i can do is pray she makes smart decisions..isnt it hard? its so easy when they are young..

about erin, i thought to myself at one point maybe my son is better off without his medications if he was going to drink. so, i know how you feel about that.. but,decided against taking them away from him..i know he has some beers with the guys now and then..but havent seen him drunk in weeks..so thats good...but, then again hes only on seroquel and effexor. you have a legititmate concern with her meds and drinking.

my daughter has told me that some of her friends drink their parents vodka and replace it with water..vodka does not have a very strong odor..so, i believe it..just writing all this turns my stomach..will it ever end?

Hi, Jules and all ~ The thing with Kait is that she doesn't see this as a problem, even after we layed out the photos she got upset with us saying how we had some nerve going into her camera without her permission. She blamed everything on us trying to take the focus off of herself...called me a f*ing ***** and telling me that I have been saying that she had a problem for years and she doesn't. Hubby and I brought up how she was stealing from us, lying, breaking into our home without our permission and hiding alcohol in her car. She claimed that everyone did that and she was no exception and that everyone must have a drinking problem too. She argued that cutting the screen to gain access into our other home was her right since it was her home too. Her attitude and sense of not owning up to her mistakes had hubby calling the cops to at least make an official report. The police officer has everything documented and was wonderful at sharing with Kait how he too was concerned about her actions and how at 18 years old she was already setting herself up for a future involving the law in which she would not have the opportunity to succeed if things continued to go the way that they were. He also shared how he had seen over many years the end results of teens who acted like her and that the best case scenario was a job at Walmart if at all or even death. He looked at the pictures and told her that by what he saw she had a real problem and that she probably didn't think so and that she may think that it was normal but it wasn't normal for parents to be put in this position of not trusting their own children and that if she were ever to want to work in a restaurant/hotel that having a felony with alcohol or drugs would never land her a job in the future. He also went on to explain how driving a car with bad brakes could land her in jail and if we really wanted to we could have her arrested for breaking and entry. We told the officer that we didn't want that at this time but the next time we would do so.....that we were tired of all this and that from here on out she would be responsible for her actions. He went on to ask Kait if alcohol was her only problem....she admitted freely to using weed and he told her that it was not a good combo. He gave us alanon and AA information and told Kait that the complaint would be on record and that she was not to be in the other house or she would be arrested and have an instant record.

When he left the officer told hubby that it seemed that Kait barely listened to what he was saying and that we should continue to use tough love and perhaps she would wake up.

Kait went on to tell us that we should be more concerned about Erin and how she had drank on Christmas Eve and that was why she was sick....I told her that I already knew that and she upped the ante by telling me that Erin also was playing this choking passing out game and that we should worry more about her. I told her to stop taking the focus off of herself, that I was already concerned about Erin and that the issue still was about her and our legitimate concerns about her alcohol/drug use and overall behavior. We took the keys away for the car and told her that we would be cancelling the registration and insurance and if she took any vehicle without our permission that we would call the police. The officer told us our rights to have her evicted if she continued to be a problem and told her that it would be wise if she changed her ways before she wore out her welcome in her own home, that he had seen the results of that and it wasn't good.

So we have alot of anger going on here....we told Kait that not only we were concerned but her sister and friends were as well and that if she didn't see a problem then all those who cared about her couldn't be wrong. WE told her that we had alot to think about and that we weren't sure about her going back to college that we would be calling the college and setting up an appointment with the student services to ascertain our options. ( They are closed today for the holiday break) And that it may very well come down to her coming home and working a job for a while so that she could get herself back on the right track with our assistance. That college was a provelege and not a ticket to party and screw up your life.

She is in such denial....she doesn't even see that there is a problem...we were going to do a drug/alcohol test that our friend gave us and she admitted to using weed yesterday and we told her there would be no more of that allowed if she wanted to live under our roof. We still have decisions to make.....we still don't know what is best.....Erin is extremely upset about Kait's ratting her out and has told her to go back to college that she doesn't care anymore.....I told her that she was entitled to that but that I had my concerns about her welfare and that some of the things Kait had shared were and could be life threatening. When I asked her about the choking game she said that she did it once but once she learned how you could die from it she hasn't done it since. All of this is too much to absorb and I just don't know what to believe anymore. Hubby informed me that a neighbor invited us for dinner and that is the last thing I can think about. How can we go out an leave or trust these two girls???? And when do we get our lives back???

I need that oxygen mask.....and Ruth I sure hope that you send me a sign and some strong currents to keep me from geting too close to the ground.;) Boy how I miss your posts and your strength and grace that pulled me through such moments....I know that you haven't left me alone and that you will send in a fleet of angels for your friends here....would it be too soon for you to do it now???;)

Thanks everyone for your patience and support....I really don't know how I can get through this all....there are too many lemons and curveballs being thrown my way. It's getting so difficult to dodge them all when they seem to be coming all at once!!:dizzy:

((((HUGS)))) and thanks for the love and support ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

I'll try to clarify-I typed my post in a hurry and was pretty upset. I gave Erika's Dad the meds all divided up into morning and evening doses with a medication chart and instructions written on the two 7-day containers. Erika is compliant here with me pushing and being verbally abused twice a day for it. Her Dad is bipolar but in denial and does not believe in "all this stuff". His brother is diagnosed bipolar and his mother is as well. I may have mentioned it before but he is a Lt. Col. in the Air Force and believes discipline is the answer to everything.
Thanks for the feedback so far. Hang in there all and yep, looking for the funny, kooky things in life help me keep going. Pippin

Goody, i know exactly what you are saying..we drug test our son all the time..it used to come up positive for pain pills..its been negative for weeks now..we will not tolerate drugs.. pain pills numb you and that is what he was trying to achieve. hes rough to deal with, we are always skating around him and i am getting tired of it..we cant go out and trust them home alone either. i wish i had advice for you but im kinda going thru the same thing..im trying to stay 1 step ahead but its starting to destroy my marriage among other things.i wish my 20 yr old was out on his own!

Oh Goody!

I am so sorry you are going through all of this now. I know how heartsick you are and how hard it is when there doesn't seem to be any answers. I'm going to read all of your posts and see if I can get caught up. You certainly don't need this, but I know you will find a way to handle it. You are so strong.

I'm concerned about the advice of the tdoc, only in the sense that you don't really trust her. The whole alcohol/susbstance abuse world is so difficult to deal with and finding someone you trust and who can give you good advice seems almost impossible. There are alot of big rehab places who might have some resources for you or be able to give you some direction. I know that Hazeldon is a well-respected name.

In the meantime, I am sending you huge hugs and I know that Ruth is watching over you.

Love,

Hope

Who is Ruth?

Thanks, Hope, for your continued support and words of understanding. This thread serves as a wonderful lifeline and the people on this board are just great. This is all so difficult to share with family and friends who are not going through it so being here and having found you guys is such a gift.

Jules, Ruth was a wonderful poster I met here when I first came to Healthboards....we met over on the Relationship Board and we seemed to think alike and be connected in a unique way...we felt as if we had a spiritual connection that reached out through cyberspace. We soon adopted one another as cybertwins and discovered that we both shared a strong faith and kinship with one another. After developing such a bond I had some troubles developing with both my girls...Ruth had no children and asked if she could co-parent my girls and soon I learned that she was Bipolar.

When Erin started showing signs of Bipolar, it was Ruth:angel: who gently took hold of my hand and brought me over to this board and told me that there were wonderful people here. I didn't doubt it because she was one of them.:wave: Who would have known that she would play such a vital role in my life....when we met I had no idea that she was Bipolar or that Erin would be diagnosed with it. I really truly believe that our paths were meant to cross.

Sadly we all learned, by a posting by her husband here on Healthboards, that our dear Ruth had passed away on November 4th. When I heard the news I truly felt as if I had lost a sister for we had such a wonderful bond.

I know that she is still among us and in a special way watching over me and my family as well as so many of her other friends here. We often spoke of how we felt that we would know one another when we finally met in heaven and recognize one another's souls.:angel: :angel:

She is a sister and friend who I truly miss and I know that she is still watching over me and is the wind beneath my wings.

~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Wow. I admire your courage. I never could have called the cops. I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes, as a matter of fact. I have never had to face such defiant behavior with my kids. I can't even imagine drug testing. I don't think my son would have put up with it. I think he would have just taken off.

Did you end up going out for dinner? I imagine you are afraid to leave the girls alone at the moment. I am afraid your problems with Erin are going to get worse if Kait isn't allowed to return to college. Their negative energy seems to feed off each other. Is Kait the type to run away?

I am eager to hear what the college has to say if you decide to contact them. My son's college would pretty much not get involved in issues related to drinking and drugs. They were not about to function in loco parentis. But it sounds like Kait's college has a different attitude. What size is the student body? Please keep us all informed. We are all holding you in our thoughts and prayers. best, Tsohl

Hello Hope,

How are things in your world?
Just checking in....
Hugs your way, too.
Tsohl

goody, thats just a bittersweet story. i do believe shes watching over:angel:

Hi Goody, (and friends)

I was just rereading some old posts and I ran across someone you have to get in touch with....Gav 73--Read in the thread "Should I encourage her to go to college" by LAP18, one of her posts (#8) where she describes the kind of teen she was and what she put her parents through -- she definitely reminded me of what you're going through with Kait. She might be just the one to give you some good ideas on how to handle the situation.

I'm sending some prayers your way this morning, hoping your drama isn't intensifying with Kait. best regards, Tsohl

Thanks, Tsohl....yes I had come across Gav's posts before and alot of what she writes about seems so familiar so I think that her perspective of things may very well help me out. I know with your son, you didn't have the butting of heads going on....or perhaps as many therapists have shared with us, the friction seems to be with the opposite sex parent. How is/was your son's relationship with his dad??? Was it more strained??

Anyway, it is so frustrating because as you well pointed out, Kait does not respond to punishments or ultimatums very well, as a matter of fact she has told us that punishing her or taking priveleges away only makes things worse. The therapist tells us that she has held hubby and I with emotional blackmail and it is time for that to stop and have her take responsibility for her actions. As difficult as it was to call the police, we did because we want her to know that there will be consequences to her actions and we are nom longer afraid to take them. We are doing our part as parents and it is time for her to do her part as a young adult. Hubby and I are tired of always doing our part and her not doing hers. We are seriously thinking about evicting her if this continues.

Kait is getting the grades, they are lower than we or she expected...her first trimester she got a 2.61...she needs a 2.75 in order to receive her academic scholarship. I think that her objective is to party and she clearly has chosen friends who like to do the same. Yesterday she tried to make herself look better (as she often does) by telling me that her Bipolar roommate has been arrested for drinking and that her other suitemate was and the roommate were the ones brought up before the college board of conduct for possession of alcohol....she wasn't charged or given any penalties because it wasn't her alcohol BUT she was with them. They are on probation and had to go through alcohol counseling and pay a fine whereas Kait didn't. On top of this, one of the girls Kait told me Thanksgiving time, is a recovering alcoholic and her Bipolar roommate has a history of having been in a rehab for addiction and abuse of Adderall. Kait is no longer rooming with the Bipolar girl but is with the recovering alcoholic. It's not a pretty picture is it????

Unlike Gav, Kait is not seeing that she isn't ready for college....she believes academically she deserves to be there and I don't disagree. She is bright, however, her personal life choices may affect her entire future and the way I see it we cannot force her to WANT to come back home and work and go to a community college...in fact I see that as making matters worse in the sense that Kait will further rebel....she will find trouble here and ways to drink if she wants to. The thing is, at this point she doesn't see that she has a problem....in fact she has said that as far as she is concerned that this is normal because if it weren't then why are there so many people at her college and at home doing the same exact thing and some worse off than her. She told the police officer that she didn't think that there was a problem when he picked up the picture of her passed out in a bathtub. He told her that he disagreed, that she did have a problem and if she didn't start taking care of it she would either be dead or in jail. How much more could be said....Kait told us that we had the problem of being to involved or concerned about her life. So what do we do with that???

I have to get on the phone with the college and see what our options may be.....I am going to share my concerns with them and see if she would be accepted back if she took a year or two off and did some of her electives here and resumed when she was better able to control her drinking. The downside thing is that this college has her taking many of her core requirements in the first two years....,they do things flip side in terms of earning a degree so many of Kait's credits are non-transferable....she has taken Food Safety and Food and Sanitation as well as Front Dest Operations all of which are part of her major. So there is alot to look into.....I know that her well being comes first, however, if Kait doesn't see that then chances are she will continue down this road and there is very little we can do to change it. When she went to live with my brother the same things happened....she went and found the people who liked to party and she was suspended for drinking....she remained an honor student, but she still found trouble and gravitated towards the kids who liked to party. Chances are that she will do the same if we were to keep her home.

Things are rather quiet around here....Kait was up until 2 or 3am as usual and when she has nothing to do that is when she gets nasty....we are in the calm before the storm because we told her that her use of the car is done and that seeing her friends is over for the time being as well until we figure this all out.

We are going to dinner to our neighbors and embaressingly had to tell them that we had to bring out two teenage girls. This has been the 4th invite and we just couldn't decline again.

I will keep you posted...Jules I am so sorry that this is coming between you and your hubby. My advice would be to really try to give your energies to trying to salvage your marriage....all this CAN destroy any happiness you or I may have but it is our job to make certain that it doesn't. Take time for your relationship with your husband....that is so important because when all is said and done it was the two of you that started as the foundation and the two of you that must make sure that it doesn't crumble. I know that sometimes it feels as if we are in this alone but our hubbys are hurting and feeling it just as much, only they are not so good at showing it. Eventually your son will get on his own two feet and he will be walking into the sunset....sad if you and your hubby are left behind not able to watch it together.

Just my two cents worth but I know how much this all can suck out of you.....we have to ride the waves and when we are in the peak take advantage of that moment and look up to the sky and see the beauty that is still there in our lives. That is key to getting through the next trough....and as far as I am concerned, I want my hubby with me riding the waves through the sea of life. I am sure that you do to.;)

((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Hi All,

Tsohl, thanks for always checking in on me. You are so kind!

Things here, for today, are calm. Zac has been in a good mood and said he feels like the medication is finally beginning to work. We had some travails over the holidays, as always, but managed to get through them without the usual bursts of anger and craziness.

We definitely all took a mental break over the holidays and enjoyed a week with no therapists, no psychiatrists, no school, no discussions. I think we all desperately needed it. Now we are getting back into the routine. The pdoc prescribed Concerta so Zac can see if that helps him with his focus. That continues to be his biggest issue and is the stress factor of returning back to school. He is doing fine with his tutors, but he is on such a relaxed schedule that I can't envision him getting back into the grind. Sleep continues to elude him (he has been on so many different meds) and now his whole body clock is off. I'm trying to get him up earlier in the morning, but it's hard when he doesn't fall asleep until 3:00 AM. He has also taken to night eating, which is not a good habit for so many reasons, and so my first priority this new year is helping him find a routine he can commit to.

I am so sympathetic about the drugs and alcohol, Goody. They are like sirens that call to our kids and are so difficult to manage. Please keep us posted about how you are doing. I wish I could give you some good advice, but I've struggled myself. The only thing I can tell you is that you are doing everything possible for your girls and that is all you can ask of yourself. We've had the cops here, too. The only way we could get Zac to go in-patient after my sister died was to have the cops come and take him in the ambulance. It was horriffic, but something we had to do.

What I have learned from this battle is that tomorrow it may all change but, for today, I am thankful to have my son back. He is truly two different people - the one we have always known with the great sense of humor, the keen intellect, and the compassion for those around him - or someone who turns truly monstruous, angry, abusive, volatile. When he is "himself", I find it hard to believe that he will ever turn into the other person and when he is that person I am fearful that I wll never see my son again. It is an ongoing journey, but one I am so thankful to share with all of you.

I love all of you as sisters of the heart.

Love,

Hope

Dear Jules-

I, too, am sorry to hear that you and your husband are having challenges, but it's not surprising. This is tough for everyone. Although at times I get very frustrated with my husband, I know he is in pain, too. He has had a volatile relationship with Zac these past few years and it is especially difficult for him because they were extremely close when Zac was young. I wish that he handled things differently, but I accept him for who he is. I know his heart is in the right place. Like alot of men, he doesn't have the patience or the emotional reserve for the ups and downs of this disorder. But, he loves his son and he loves me and wants all of us to get to a better place.

One of the things I have tried to do is to create a "discussion-free" zone. When we go out to dinner or go out for the evening, I tell him that I don't want to discuss any of the negative things we are dealing with. If he wants to talk about constructive plans or options, I'm happy to do with that, but I don't want to dwell on all of the troubliing things we are facing. It has helped. It is too easy to become consumed by this and soon you find it's all you are talking about. It's a killer!

Just something to think about as you pace yourself.

Love,

Hope

Goody,
I agree with the sentiments expressed in your last post completely. I don't see how keeping Kait home is going to be particularly productive. I think there are ways to let her continue on with her studies. I think the chances are just as great that she would continue on with her partying regardless of where she is living. At school there is always the chance that she will have some experience that will turn around her attitude--whether it be someone she meets, a professor, a class....etc. If she is at home she is always going to be looking for a way to foil you. She just may be one of those kids that has to learn by experience. It is very troubling that she seems to think everyone is doing the same thing. I don't suppose it would do any good to organize something along the lines of an intervention whereby just her peers would talk to her about their concerns? Obviously, she isn't going to take anything away from an adult. Has Kait always been this defiant and oppositional? When I read various comments you've made about how Kait thinks her behavior is on a par with everyone else she knows, how "everyone" is doing it, it sends up red flags for me. In many ways it sounds like she is living in a somewhat manic state. I would certainly continue monitoring her for signs of bipolarity.

Is Kait somewhat young for her class? I seem to recall her turning 18 after she entered college. Her behavior and attitudes strike me as rather immature as well. I'm really out on a limb here, but is there any possibility that Kait is behaving this way to command attention? Generally girls behave this way when they have little self-esteem or self-respect. Maybe you could look into whether her college offers any decent therapy or counseling and you could make that a condition for her return to school this semester. I'm really "thinking outloud" here so please don't let anything I'm writing without really thinking through offend you!! I'm just tossing out some ideas and maybe something will ring true.

To answer your question about our son, I would say that he and my husband have a good relationship. It has been more difficult for my husband to get his mind around understanding bipolar disorder, but he has really made an attempt to educate himself about it. My husband is a very calm, rational being who is used to tough negotiations and always deals from a position of logic so that helps a lot!! Our son has always been strong-willed and a perfectionist. He too is very logical. It is much easier to go along with him than to oppose him. We early on learned to structure what we wanted him to do in such a way that he perceived it as "his idea" and therefore was more willing to do it, work for it, etc. If he was really opposed to something we wanted or asked of him, it was like moving a mountain or trying to stop a tornedo from rotating. So I always structured things as much as possible to avoid conflict. Looking back at things as I write this, I can see that now he is more willing to listen to others opinions than previously. Could be age, or could be the meds....But the world still revolves around him and he still thinks his way is the best way, etc., and I doubt this will ever change!!

Glad to hear things are somewhat peaceful at the moment. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it continues. best, Tsohl

That is excellent advice, Hope. You really can become completely consumed by a child's problems and it can eat you up. My husband is good at compartmentalizing but I am not. When something is on my mind, it is all-consuming and I talk it to death. I have had to learn to tread lightly at times and to really pay attention to the timing of when I say things. For example my daughter will graduate from college in one semester. She is excited and scared at the same time about the future, so I have to be very careful what I say to her about her "plans." If I bring it up at the "right time" we have a nice conversation. But if I am insensitive and bring it up when I want to, I can quickly reduce her to tears, at the very least, or ruin the day!! She needs to know that we can do things together and have fun and that every time she's with me she's not going to face a grilling about her future.

Hope, you expressed what I'm trying to say perfectly and it is very good advice for all of us!! I'm pleased to hear that Zac is at least a bit happier with himself. Even once meds are in place there is still a long ways to go to learn to live again...to develop the confidence that one can go on with life, make plans, achieve. After spending much more time than usual with our son over the holidays, I see that while he appears more himself, he has a ways to go to regain his confidence regarding rejoining the work force and focusing on a "career" as opposed to a job.

Hope you have a good day. Best regards, Tsohl

Tsohl and all my wonderful friends ~ Nothing you could say would ever offend me....in fact your words sure do comfort me as well as the time and genuine caring that goes into your wonderful posts that carry me through what I envision is the battlefield. I aslo feel Ruth's love and energy in the works as she sends in a fleet of angels:angel:

I feel empowered and just got off the phone with the Director of Parent Resources at the college and she spent quite sometime with me. I feel empowered and I shared alot with her and as I did she told me numerous times that I seem to be handling the situation quite well and have thought out what is best for Kait very well. She advised me that if Kait were to return part of the conditions should be that she sign what is called a Buckley Ammendment Waiver...there are 3 in all and she told me we should insist that Kait sign all three that would allow us the right to be informed of any conduct, Academic or Health problems that may occur while she is at college. She also told me that since we are funding Kait we have every right to spell out our expectations and conditions of our doing so. She advised me to contact the Head RA of her dorm and inform him of the situation as well and tell him that we expect to hear of any problems should they arise within the dorm. She also told me that Kait should be capable of pulling a 3.2 cummulative average and that the 2.61 that she got last semester should be unacceptable. That part of our expectations would be for her to pass the Food and Sanitation exam that she is retaking from last semester and that this semester she get a 3.2 or she will not return the following semester funded by us. That way she will not be able to party and drink as she has been doing or will want to do. I also was reassurred that IF we were to have to take her out that we wouldn't lose our money and that she would help us recup almost all of it if need be. I was amazed by that. This woman sounded like an angel....she asked me several times throughout our conversation to keep her in the loop with how things go and how she may further assist us.

So I feel that Kait is going to see that we are serious, that even though she cannot be babysat every step of the way that if she doesn't do her end of things we have no intentions of doing our end of things. We are placing conditions, and reasonable ones on our further funding her education. And she will also know that if she has to come home that she will be earning her keep and have to get to and from college via bus until we are assurred that she is responsible enough to drive a car again

Tsohl ~ You seem to have pinpointed Kait to a T....she has been just as strong willed and defiant like this since she was 14 years old. I have a few threads that describe what we went through with her (they are long ones;) ) and if you have an opportunity I would love if you could take a peek at them because at the time I didn't know what was going on but since it has continued I am still concerned that Kait may be Bipolar as well. The thing is at the time I didn't know any better....she has never been suicidal but she has been quite defiant and manic....always bored unless she was on the go and several times running away into the cold dark night without a coat or shoes on. She never liked our rules even though they were the same as her friends....we were terrible parents and she wanted to live anywhere but with us. She wanted to make her own rules and live her own way without any boundaries. And if she didn't get her way she would make it so that it would be her way. She was a tornadoe and caused much turmoil within our household. Here are the threads....

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=210351
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=220223
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=228429

That should give you a history of just how turbulent life has been in our household and honestly I could use your opinion as to whether Kait has shown signs of Bipolarity or is it just defiance and oppositional behavior?? With Erin and her cutting and suicidal history it was easier....with Kait it is so much more difficult and unless she crashes I will never really know, will I?? All I know is that when she lived with my brother for a year he told me that something was wrong and he was quite concerned as we have been about her.

Just got a call from my mom...my SIL informed her that my brothers BP dropped to 40/30 and he is not putting out any urine and is on the way to the hospital via ambulance. Please, pray for him and for our family that we can get through this.

Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Goody, I am so sorry to hear about your brother and will send prayers his way.

I think you had a wonderful response to your inquiries at Kait's college, and that should go a long way to making you feel like you will have a workable plan when she goes back. Her college is very different from my son's and it is going to help you out immensely.

I will read through some of your older posts about Kait and get back to you later. Keep us posted about your brother. best, Tsohl

Goody-

Your brother is in my prayers and you are in my heart. Please let us know how he's doing.

Love,

Hope

Thanks Everyone for your love and prayers. My brother, thank God, is okay. They were able to get his blood pressure up again, he is admitted and was seen by an endocrinologist, nephrologist and cardiologist. Seems that he was in the beginning phases of acute kidney failure but they think they caught it early enough and will try to figure out exactly what is causing it. Seems that the low blood pressure worstens it so it could be one of his meds doing it....he is on so many. I am relieved that they were able to bring his blood pressure back up and that after they gave him some fluids by IV that he is now producing urine. So for now things are okay....I just pray that his doctors will soon consult with a doctor who specializes in what he has that I found in Tennesee. My mom was able to talk to the head of the center and he agreed to talk to my brother's doctor so hopefully by their putting their heads together they will come up with something that will stop the progression of this terrible thing.

Anyway....the more I think about what we came up with for Kait the more I like it. Of course when we presented it to her she hated it and got all full of how we are expecting too much of her and that nobody elses parents do this to them and that all her friends are drinking and doing worse than her blah, blah, blah. I told her that we have heard the same tune for years and to us she is not everybody else and that we have real concerns for her.....that not everybodyd else has a strong family history of drug/alcohol addictions and not everybody elses parents fund their college. We told her it was time for her to do her part and that there really wasn't too much negotiation because our expectations were more than reasonable and if she didn't like them she could always be out on her own and pay her own way. All we wanted was for her to get decent grades to maintain her scholarship and if she wasn't partying or had no problems with alcohol she would be able to do so. She told us that a boy she likes had kidney problems and couldn't drink and now that it was better he drank....I told her that if he was smart and wanted to keep his kidneys healthy that he wouldn't but that was really something his parents needed to worry about and that at this point in time we were just concerned about her and her decisions in life and her well being and future. And that ultimately it should be her that was concerned about it but so long as we were paying for college we were going to do our best to make sure that she got on the right track. She left the room not too pleased but later on came down and vacuumed for me and made banana bread to bring to our dinner tonight at our neighbor's.

Tomorrow is another day....and hopefully it will be quieter for us. I hope all is well with everybody else and thanks again for all your help, wonderful thoughts, support and prayers. It is so nice to know that all of you are here to make it just a little bit easier and to remind me that we are never alone during these difficult moments in life.

((((HUGS)))) to all the angels here on this board ~ Goody:angel: :wave:

Good news, Goody!!
I am relieved to hear your brother passed the crisis. How far away is he from you and how old is he? I do better praying for someone when I know a little bit more about them.

I'm just curious how strict you were with Kait through junior high and high school? Were you a parent who kind of micro-managed all aspects of Kait's life or did she have some independence?

I think your plan is a good one, and again, I am so amazed there is a college on the East Coast that is willing to help you out with something that is basically what she chooses to do in her free time!! Is this a private college?
My daughter works in the Admissions office of her college in Vermont. We went out for lunch today and I was subtly asking her some questions. She said freshmen in particular will drink to the point of passing out. I inquired what it took to make them change their behavior and she said they usually flunk out or otherwise decide not to return to school. Otherwise, grades serve as a "wake-up" call and they learn to regulate their partying. She also thinks college should be 5 years because it takes at least one year to figure out what's going on and to learn how to function to get the most out of it.
Did I mention she's graduating soon? (thus, the "wisdom")

Get a good night's sleep. Tomorrow is another day!

Best,
Tsohl

Thanks again everybody...yes it is yet another day. And thank God we are yet through another crisis.

Tsohl to answer your questions....I am about a 4 hour driving distance from my brother's sometimes more depending on traffic. That is what I find to be most frustrating. I had my bags packed to be ready in an instant but find it most frustrating being so far away since I would like to be more readily available to him and his family to help out. My brother is only 43 years old, my other brother thank God recently moved and is only an hour away....my parents are more like 2 1/2 hours. So my other brother and his wife joined my SIL at the hospital yesterday and my parents are now visiting him. Even though he is out of this crisis it seems that everytime he is hospitalized his condition further deteriorates which is the sad thing. I am hoping that with the consultation we have set up between his doctor and a specialist that I had found that we can figure out a way to at least keep this from progressing OR perhaps reverse some of what has occurred.

Anyway...I know that I cannot leave home when there is so much to deal with on my homefront...since my brother is now stabilized I will stay put. When things calm down I would like to perhaps fly down once in a while to help my brother and his family out but for now I feel I cannot do that.

I have more concerns regarding both of my daughters....seems that they are both drowning and I don't know who to save first. I am QUITE concerned about Erin's recent behaviors....of the drinking she did on Christmas Eve that left her vommitting...is it as she says only a little bit or more?? And Kait claims that she helped her through that night...Kait won't step one foot near anybody vomitting and when Erin had fallen asleep forgetting to take her meds I asked Kait to give them and knowing that she had done so knowing that Erin had been drinking really bothers me. and Erin knowing that she shouldn't drink while taking the meds and taking them bothers me too. And Erin playing this passing out game and claiming that she doesn't like drinking and then packing up rum and bringing it to her friend's house on New Year's Eve....it all bothers me. Erin crying how concerned she is about Kait's drinking and using weed and then going on to drink herself bothers me too.

We see the pdoc tomorrow....the one who started Erin on AD's and despite my concerns continued them. I am not happy about going to him but it is the only appointment I could get while we are on the waiting list for the pdoc I want to follow her. So how much do I tell this pdoc?? If I tell him about Erin's drinking and passing out game he may not perscribe the meds. I would be extremely upset if we were taken off of them because we have come so far with her treatment of Bipolar. Erin seems to still be quite impulsive...her self injury and suicidal thoughts have lessened as well as her depression and mania so we are in a good place with all of that and I certainly do not wish to mess that up. Do I tell this pdoc who doesn't really hold my confidence?? In fact my intentions are to tell him how I need for him to redeem himself because of how he didn't take my concerns seriously enough in the first place without putting him on the defense.

As far as Kait....she had very similar rules and guidelines as her friends did while in Junior High and High School. We basically didn't want her spending time at anyone's house where a parent wasn't home, her curfew on weekends was 10-11pm and later if circumstances were necessary,....in her Senior year of High School it was 12-12:30am. We had chores at home to be done...very basic like doing laundry and keeping up with her room and bathroom. She was able to work a job at 14 so long as she could handle it with her grades....we were extremely reasonable parents who strived to guide her towards independence and allowing her to see that she needed some ownership towards certain priveleges. While her friends were handed brand new cars we encouraged her to save for one and told her that she would have to also be able to afford the gas and insurance with some assistance from us but the way we saw it, having a car was a responsibility and would be taken on when she needed it or earned it. She seemed to resent the fact that others were given brand new SUV's by their parents or sports cars with the insurance all paid etc. We told her that we were not the type to keep up with the Jone's and that our intentions were to teach her as her parents that things in life are earned and worked for and not just handed over. Kait often feel she is owed everything in life....she has been a great worker but claims that she has had to work for so that she can have the things that she has wanted but we wouldn't give her. She is angry and unhappy....this Christmas, for example, she had about 6 or 7 gifts....they added up to alot and before she even opened them up she was upset. I told her that we had spent equally on her and Erin and what she had before her cost alot of money. By the time she opened them up I think that she came to that realization but her initial reaction really bothered me.

I think that Kait is going to have to be out on her own before she will realize her problems and how distorted her thinking is. IN her eyes her parents haven't done enough for her and the only way that she will ever know is when we no longer do anything for her.