goody2shuz
12-21-2006, 04:00 PM
Hi All:wave: Thought I would open up another thread for the parents to come and offer support for one another. Of course any advice from experience from those who are Bipolar and were diagnosed in their teens would be quite welcome since it would be nice to see what is in store for our kids futures and what might be helpful in helping them find what we are all looking for....S T A B I L I T Y:blob_fire
Oh how we need to know that there is some hope and that this diagnosis is not the worst thing and that the future for our kids will be okay. IN any case it is wonderful to be amongst others who are going through the same thing, some a little bit ahead on this journey and others a little behind....either way it is a Godsend, at least for me, to know that I am not alone in all of this and coming here has been what has kept me going from day to day.....what a wonderful place to be.
Anyway...I know that there were some problems with the other thread and there is a way to read the new posts by doing a quick reply and then hitting advanced search and then scrolling down but I thought it might just be easier to just open up an whole new thread.
Hope ~ The things you are experiencing with the school is typical...don't take it personally there is always something or somebody else to blame so that they can rationalize not spending the extra money but you and Zac are entitled to whatever services are available by law and that is why you should get the classification and have him evaluated to determine his needs and the school will have to meet those needs and if not provide another way to and pay for it. Don't give up.....they are hoping that you will crawl away with your tail between your legs but we won't let you. Research and find a parent advocate from your local Mental Health or Child Help services to help assist you. Remember, it's the squeaky wheel that get's oiled!!!;)
Pippin ~ Thanks for stopping by and giving us an update. Here is what I wrote to you in the other thread....
Pippin ~ When it comes to hugs there are plenty to go around here!!! So pretend that we are all here gathered around you and take it all in big GROUP ((((((HUGS)))))))) are here for the taking, Pippin!!!
I am so sorry to hear about the lack of support you are getting from your family....I know it is difficult to see the ones that you would think should be supportive being such ignoramouses!! Shame on them!!! They will come around, Pippin. I remember when Erin was so chronically sick with esophageal reflux disease as an infant and I told my MIL that we couldn't come visit her because it would mean Erin losing all the weight that I worked so hard to get on her she thought I was just making excuses. Well it turned out that we had a family christening to go to and my MIL was with us and Erin would not sleep or eat she was miserable unless at home. My MIL volunteered to take her home and when I got home she apologized telling me that all this time she thought I was making excuses but saw firsthand how badl Erin did outside her own home. So you just try not to worry too much about your family's lack of empathy at this time.....you just focus on Erika and your marriage and your own health. We are your family that will carry you through so just take the support that is there for you and hopefully in time your family will come around.
So relieved to hear from you....I was really worried about you....don't do that again...okay??? You don't have to come here to support us.....we are here to help you through so please don't stay away....we need you and we are all in this together. PLEASE remember that.
Now for another one of those group ((((((HUGS)))))).....we all seem to be here tonight and there are an endless supply of hugs available here.
((((HUGS)))) to help carry your through ~ Goody :angel: :wave:
Hope everyone is doing okay with their Christmas plans and that we all remember that there IS a light at the end of the tunnel for our kids and together we will find it!!
Love and plenty of (((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Oh how we need to know that there is some hope and that this diagnosis is not the worst thing and that the future for our kids will be okay. IN any case it is wonderful to be amongst others who are going through the same thing, some a little bit ahead on this journey and others a little behind....either way it is a Godsend, at least for me, to know that I am not alone in all of this and coming here has been what has kept me going from day to day.....what a wonderful place to be.
Anyway...I know that there were some problems with the other thread and there is a way to read the new posts by doing a quick reply and then hitting advanced search and then scrolling down but I thought it might just be easier to just open up an whole new thread.
Hope ~ The things you are experiencing with the school is typical...don't take it personally there is always something or somebody else to blame so that they can rationalize not spending the extra money but you and Zac are entitled to whatever services are available by law and that is why you should get the classification and have him evaluated to determine his needs and the school will have to meet those needs and if not provide another way to and pay for it. Don't give up.....they are hoping that you will crawl away with your tail between your legs but we won't let you. Research and find a parent advocate from your local Mental Health or Child Help services to help assist you. Remember, it's the squeaky wheel that get's oiled!!!;)
Pippin ~ Thanks for stopping by and giving us an update. Here is what I wrote to you in the other thread....
Pippin ~ When it comes to hugs there are plenty to go around here!!! So pretend that we are all here gathered around you and take it all in big GROUP ((((((HUGS)))))))) are here for the taking, Pippin!!!
I am so sorry to hear about the lack of support you are getting from your family....I know it is difficult to see the ones that you would think should be supportive being such ignoramouses!! Shame on them!!! They will come around, Pippin. I remember when Erin was so chronically sick with esophageal reflux disease as an infant and I told my MIL that we couldn't come visit her because it would mean Erin losing all the weight that I worked so hard to get on her she thought I was just making excuses. Well it turned out that we had a family christening to go to and my MIL was with us and Erin would not sleep or eat she was miserable unless at home. My MIL volunteered to take her home and when I got home she apologized telling me that all this time she thought I was making excuses but saw firsthand how badl Erin did outside her own home. So you just try not to worry too much about your family's lack of empathy at this time.....you just focus on Erika and your marriage and your own health. We are your family that will carry you through so just take the support that is there for you and hopefully in time your family will come around.
So relieved to hear from you....I was really worried about you....don't do that again...okay??? You don't have to come here to support us.....we are here to help you through so please don't stay away....we need you and we are all in this together. PLEASE remember that.
Now for another one of those group ((((((HUGS)))))).....we all seem to be here tonight and there are an endless supply of hugs available here.
((((HUGS)))) to help carry your through ~ Goody :angel: :wave:
Hope everyone is doing okay with their Christmas plans and that we all remember that there IS a light at the end of the tunnel for our kids and together we will find it!!
Love and plenty of (((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Sponsor
langlee
12-21-2006, 04:05 PM
Thanks, Goody. I think the school was surprised with how much I knew and I did not let them off the hook! Time to be aggressive!
Here's what I wrote on the other thread (hopefully Tsohl can find this!!):
Hi All,
Yesterday was a really frustrating day. We spoke with the tdoc, who Zac loves and who has alot of experience with bipolar because of his son, but we couldn't help but feel that his bad experience has colored his thinking. Without meaning to, he painted a very dismal picture and we left confused and unhappy.
We then went to the school to discuss classification and they were very resistant (not surprisingly since classification represents a financial investment from them). The whole conversation was upsetting because I hate that feeling they exude which is that somehow Zac's challenges are in part because of our inferior parenting. They don't come out and say it, but it feels like there is an underlying current. Perhaps you haven't set enough boundaries, they ask? Perhaps you have allowed him to manipulate you? I feel like screaming! Zac started having emotional issues in the Middle School and there was not a single resource offered from the school. (and we are supposedly one of the best school systems in the state) I hate that feeling that our child has fallen out of their range of concern because they have to focus on the kids who are "doing what they are supposed to be doing". It's maddening!
I have felt so totally alone in this process (other than all of you), researching, trying to find the right pdocs and tdocs, investigating what's available, trying to figure out what's next, and never losing sight of Zac, the human being. And I feel like they sit in judgement of him and of us. UGH!
In any event, I'm venting again, but everytime we take a step forward, it feels like we take two steps backward and I am disgusted and appalled that the school is so difficult.
We are taking Zac to the primary care doctor to decide if he needs an EKG. His pulse was at 138 for about 6 hours the night he was having the problem and his chest stll aches a little. We thought about taking him to the ER, but my friend, the nurse, assured us he didn't need to go unless it jumped to 150 and our experiences at the ER have been less than satisfying. We don't want to be negligient, either, though.
2007 has to be better than this year. I'm thinking of all of you as the holiday draws closer and hope that you can all find peace and contentment.
Love,
Hope
Here's what I wrote on the other thread (hopefully Tsohl can find this!!):
Hi All,
Yesterday was a really frustrating day. We spoke with the tdoc, who Zac loves and who has alot of experience with bipolar because of his son, but we couldn't help but feel that his bad experience has colored his thinking. Without meaning to, he painted a very dismal picture and we left confused and unhappy.
We then went to the school to discuss classification and they were very resistant (not surprisingly since classification represents a financial investment from them). The whole conversation was upsetting because I hate that feeling they exude which is that somehow Zac's challenges are in part because of our inferior parenting. They don't come out and say it, but it feels like there is an underlying current. Perhaps you haven't set enough boundaries, they ask? Perhaps you have allowed him to manipulate you? I feel like screaming! Zac started having emotional issues in the Middle School and there was not a single resource offered from the school. (and we are supposedly one of the best school systems in the state) I hate that feeling that our child has fallen out of their range of concern because they have to focus on the kids who are "doing what they are supposed to be doing". It's maddening!
I have felt so totally alone in this process (other than all of you), researching, trying to find the right pdocs and tdocs, investigating what's available, trying to figure out what's next, and never losing sight of Zac, the human being. And I feel like they sit in judgement of him and of us. UGH!
In any event, I'm venting again, but everytime we take a step forward, it feels like we take two steps backward and I am disgusted and appalled that the school is so difficult.
We are taking Zac to the primary care doctor to decide if he needs an EKG. His pulse was at 138 for about 6 hours the night he was having the problem and his chest stll aches a little. We thought about taking him to the ER, but my friend, the nurse, assured us he didn't need to go unless it jumped to 150 and our experiences at the ER have been less than satisfying. We don't want to be negligient, either, though.
2007 has to be better than this year. I'm thinking of all of you as the holiday draws closer and hope that you can all find peace and contentment.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-21-2006, 04:23 PM
Hi,
I've found you. Are we abandoning the other thread? ~ Tsohl
I've found you. Are we abandoning the other thread? ~ Tsohl
goody2shuz
12-21-2006, 04:51 PM
Hey guys....the other one was getting a little bit long so it may be a good idea to come here....Pippin should be able to find us or as the originator of her thread post on there if she doesn't find us here. I vote we stay here....we need a new road to tread on anyway since the New Year is almost upon us.:jester:
Besides...as far as I am concerned nobody ever is left abandoned on this wonderful board!!;)
Hope ~ You should push forward with that IEP so that things will be layed in place shortly after the New Year begins. There are wonderful resources available to guide you and wonderful people out there to help advocate for you if you should need them. Don't let this get you down....you will find the right education for Zac....how does he feel about returning to school??? I know that all of us have re-prioritized things since our kids have been diagnosed....right now I think we all would agree that our kids mental and emotional well being is at the top of the list and then we take it from there. Even if Zac receives education at home or an alternative program it will be much better than putting him in an environment that will only cause him mental and emotional stress. You will know when he is ready to go back to school and what provisions should be made for him. And you should expect nothing less.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Besides...as far as I am concerned nobody ever is left abandoned on this wonderful board!!;)
Hope ~ You should push forward with that IEP so that things will be layed in place shortly after the New Year begins. There are wonderful resources available to guide you and wonderful people out there to help advocate for you if you should need them. Don't let this get you down....you will find the right education for Zac....how does he feel about returning to school??? I know that all of us have re-prioritized things since our kids have been diagnosed....right now I think we all would agree that our kids mental and emotional well being is at the top of the list and then we take it from there. Even if Zac receives education at home or an alternative program it will be much better than putting him in an environment that will only cause him mental and emotional stress. You will know when he is ready to go back to school and what provisions should be made for him. And you should expect nothing less.
(((HUGS))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
12-21-2006, 05:05 PM
Hope,
i dont really feel like i should give advice, because we are battleling with this every day in our house too..The racing pulse and and chest aches can be anxiety..Believe me, my son has abused benzos like klonopins and xanaxs in the past so, im not big on them..but, they do help sometimes..to calm things down. If prescribed by his doc of course ,occasionally..i m pretty sure i read that you had an issue with zac and drugs..but think about asking his pdoc if its a good idea for you to have them in the house for emergencys like that..believe im not a fan of hospital emergency rooms either...and try my hardest not to take him there...3 days ago,he told me his chest was hurting and he felt his heart beating so fast..i did give him a xanax and he calmed down...just my thoughts!!
i dont really feel like i should give advice, because we are battleling with this every day in our house too..The racing pulse and and chest aches can be anxiety..Believe me, my son has abused benzos like klonopins and xanaxs in the past so, im not big on them..but, they do help sometimes..to calm things down. If prescribed by his doc of course ,occasionally..i m pretty sure i read that you had an issue with zac and drugs..but think about asking his pdoc if its a good idea for you to have them in the house for emergencys like that..believe im not a fan of hospital emergency rooms either...and try my hardest not to take him there...3 days ago,he told me his chest was hurting and he felt his heart beating so fast..i did give him a xanax and he calmed down...just my thoughts!!
tsohl
12-21-2006, 05:33 PM
Hope,
I'm hear to tell you that it is my firm belief that many of these "Professionals" in the field of education and mental health do not know bipolarity nor do they understand it at all. We spent $13,000 plus airfare on a 4 week program in Florida that advertised and had the reputation of treating bipolar young adults. In reality they lumped it in together with the other "mood disorders" and I saw nothing to indicate they actually understood what it was all about.
I know how you feel about the "bad parenting" reaction. I don't know about "Classification" -- what it is, etc.
What did the tdoc say to you? Isn't his son doing well now?
I have to run for now. Hopefully will have more to add later.
best,
Tsohl
I'm hear to tell you that it is my firm belief that many of these "Professionals" in the field of education and mental health do not know bipolarity nor do they understand it at all. We spent $13,000 plus airfare on a 4 week program in Florida that advertised and had the reputation of treating bipolar young adults. In reality they lumped it in together with the other "mood disorders" and I saw nothing to indicate they actually understood what it was all about.
I know how you feel about the "bad parenting" reaction. I don't know about "Classification" -- what it is, etc.
What did the tdoc say to you? Isn't his son doing well now?
I have to run for now. Hopefully will have more to add later.
best,
Tsohl
jules3
12-22-2006, 09:20 AM
Ts, can you tell me the name of that place in florida? does it have the word "water" in it? i know florida has a ton of recovery centers.. i was researching one and am curious to know if thats it?
THANKS
THANKS
langlee
12-22-2006, 11:55 AM
Hi All,
The tdoc's son is doing OK now, but he really is not the same kid at all. It sounds like he is functional, but had serious ramifications from drug use and is living a much more compromised life than any of us would want for our children. It makes it tough because I think the tdoc has seen one of the worst extremes and it colors his thinking. On the other hand, Zac likes him and he is well connected with the school and can help us there so we're staying with him for now.
Classification in the public school system gives us access to more services if we need it, but it has financial implications for the school and they resist it at all costs. (no pun intended!) I still don't understand everything about it, but I want it so I have options down the road. My sense is that Zac can go back part-time to the high school, but will have to have home instruction for a part of the day and classification helps with that. He is having tremendous issues with axniety, to Jules' point, and we have to tread carefully.
I do believe the racing heart is due to anxiety, but with the new med of Abilify, I want to make sure it's nothing more. The anxiety is becoming as much of a problem as anything else, as is the angry outbursts which seem to come from nowhere. He swings from anxious to even to angry very quickly, which tells me we are not yet where we need to be with the meds.
Goody, thanks for the postive reinforcement with the school system. My niece is a Vice-Principal at an elementary school in our state and she has volunteered to go with us to the next meeting. I am researching like crazy and rallying my resources. It is frustrating and time-consuming, but I know we'll get there.
Tsohl, how is your back?
Jules, when is next pdoc meeting for your son? Please make sure you let us know how that goes.
Happy Holidays to all!
Love,
Hope
The tdoc's son is doing OK now, but he really is not the same kid at all. It sounds like he is functional, but had serious ramifications from drug use and is living a much more compromised life than any of us would want for our children. It makes it tough because I think the tdoc has seen one of the worst extremes and it colors his thinking. On the other hand, Zac likes him and he is well connected with the school and can help us there so we're staying with him for now.
Classification in the public school system gives us access to more services if we need it, but it has financial implications for the school and they resist it at all costs. (no pun intended!) I still don't understand everything about it, but I want it so I have options down the road. My sense is that Zac can go back part-time to the high school, but will have to have home instruction for a part of the day and classification helps with that. He is having tremendous issues with axniety, to Jules' point, and we have to tread carefully.
I do believe the racing heart is due to anxiety, but with the new med of Abilify, I want to make sure it's nothing more. The anxiety is becoming as much of a problem as anything else, as is the angry outbursts which seem to come from nowhere. He swings from anxious to even to angry very quickly, which tells me we are not yet where we need to be with the meds.
Goody, thanks for the postive reinforcement with the school system. My niece is a Vice-Principal at an elementary school in our state and she has volunteered to go with us to the next meeting. I am researching like crazy and rallying my resources. It is frustrating and time-consuming, but I know we'll get there.
Tsohl, how is your back?
Jules, when is next pdoc meeting for your son? Please make sure you let us know how that goes.
Happy Holidays to all!
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-22-2006, 03:24 PM
Hey guys!! Glad everyone made the move to the new thread.
Jules~ No, that wasn't a part of the name. This place was in Clearwater and I would NOT recommend it.
Thanks for explaining more about the school issues, Hope. I missed all that. Our kids went to a private prep school and our son's two friends who needed more help eventually left as a private school is not able to handle kids with educational issues that fall too far off the norm. The one girl went to the school on the grounds of the private mental hospital which was really terrific for her, and the guy went to a public high school and was able to handle a regular school load. This may sound kind of crazy but our son played hockey at an elite level and I think it helped him manage whatever stress and anxiety he had. All through high school he had a rigid, busy schedule that he seemed to thrive on. I would notice a difference in him when he was in the down times when he wasn't skating all the time.(for the worse) I think he probably was burning off some of those feelings when he was skating. He didn't have much time to sit around and think about things. I may be totally wrong here, but I think he functions best when he has a task to accomplish or a goal to strive for.
One problem with the drug use is that I guess there isn't a way to know if the drug use was caused by the symptoms of bipolarity or if bipolarity is induced by the use of drugs. There seem to be two schools of thought on this, from what I've read. I personally believe our son's drug use intensified his bipolar issues. It was not until he totally quit all drug and alcohol use that the pdoc was able to find the drugs that stabilized him.
Hope all your kids are doing ok and will be able to find some joy in the approaching holidays! And you, too, moms and dads!! MERRY CHRISTMAS. regards, Tsohl
Jules~ No, that wasn't a part of the name. This place was in Clearwater and I would NOT recommend it.
Thanks for explaining more about the school issues, Hope. I missed all that. Our kids went to a private prep school and our son's two friends who needed more help eventually left as a private school is not able to handle kids with educational issues that fall too far off the norm. The one girl went to the school on the grounds of the private mental hospital which was really terrific for her, and the guy went to a public high school and was able to handle a regular school load. This may sound kind of crazy but our son played hockey at an elite level and I think it helped him manage whatever stress and anxiety he had. All through high school he had a rigid, busy schedule that he seemed to thrive on. I would notice a difference in him when he was in the down times when he wasn't skating all the time.(for the worse) I think he probably was burning off some of those feelings when he was skating. He didn't have much time to sit around and think about things. I may be totally wrong here, but I think he functions best when he has a task to accomplish or a goal to strive for.
One problem with the drug use is that I guess there isn't a way to know if the drug use was caused by the symptoms of bipolarity or if bipolarity is induced by the use of drugs. There seem to be two schools of thought on this, from what I've read. I personally believe our son's drug use intensified his bipolar issues. It was not until he totally quit all drug and alcohol use that the pdoc was able to find the drugs that stabilized him.
Hope all your kids are doing ok and will be able to find some joy in the approaching holidays! And you, too, moms and dads!! MERRY CHRISTMAS. regards, Tsohl
jules3
12-22-2006, 05:20 PM
Hope, your whole paragraph about zacs angry outbursts is exactly what we have here with my son..Coming out of nowhere..Its like hes wound very tight..and is suffering alot of anxiety too! His next appt. is dec 29 and his doc did tell him if he'd like, he should bring his mom..so ,im going too.
ts, the place i was talking about is in melbourne fla...thanks
ts, the place i was talking about is in melbourne fla...thanks
tsohl
12-22-2006, 07:41 PM
Jules,
What type of program is the one in Melbourne, Fl? Is it a program for those with co-dependency?
How is your son doing? Will he "allow" you to go to the pdoc with him? I've never met a single one of my son's pdocs...but when he started down this road, he was living 1000 miles away and I didn't even know he had problems!
In a way, you're lucky that he's still living under your roof and you have some control over him. best, Tsohl
What type of program is the one in Melbourne, Fl? Is it a program for those with co-dependency?
How is your son doing? Will he "allow" you to go to the pdoc with him? I've never met a single one of my son's pdocs...but when he started down this road, he was living 1000 miles away and I didn't even know he had problems!
In a way, you're lucky that he's still living under your roof and you have some control over him. best, Tsohl
jules3
12-22-2006, 10:28 PM
Ts, yes i am very lucky that hes living in our home and i can see whats happening. But, sometimes i wish he didnt live home, because i see whats happening...understand? He says when hes 21 and gets a full time job he s moving out. we shall see. The place in florida is a recovery center for substance abuse,they have a team of psychitrists. its dual-diagnosis. The agreement we have here is that if he tests positive for drugs, he goes there or he moves out. Like i've said in the past, i cannot tolerate drug abuse,but, i would do everything in my power to help him with his bi-polar issues. I definitly see that hes not using drugs and hes taking his prescribed medications. Its just hard, because whenever i think hes doing well, something happens .like he has a violent outburst or gets very depressed.. so, everyday is still an adventure. I know until he takes ownership of all this he will never be fully stable. I just want to have a nice peaceful Christmas and have told him that...
langlee
12-23-2006, 01:50 PM
Dear Jules,
I know how difficult this can be and I hear how weary you are. Try to pace yourself as best you can. This is so hard because we want our children to be well and to get on with their lives as best they can.
I am interested in the dual diagnosis facility in Florida. Do you live near there or was it recommended as the right place to go? We are investigating dual diagnosis facilities, just in case we need them. You said it was in Melbourne?
Hope the holidays are peaceful for everyone. We all deserve it, as do our children!
Love,
Hope
I know how difficult this can be and I hear how weary you are. Try to pace yourself as best you can. This is so hard because we want our children to be well and to get on with their lives as best they can.
I am interested in the dual diagnosis facility in Florida. Do you live near there or was it recommended as the right place to go? We are investigating dual diagnosis facilities, just in case we need them. You said it was in Melbourne?
Hope the holidays are peaceful for everyone. We all deserve it, as do our children!
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-23-2006, 03:27 PM
Hi ladies,
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl
tsohl
12-23-2006, 03:27 PM
Hi ladies,
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl
tsohl
12-23-2006, 03:27 PM
Hi ladies,
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl
Keep me in the loop on your discussions of dual diagnosis programs as I might be able to help with suggestions of which ones to avoid! It is really really tough to find a good program. You really have to be careful. They will mostly focus on the addiction part of the dual diagnosis rather than the mental disorder as it is MUCH easier to "fix" the addictive behavior. Maybe that's not all bad, but it did surprise me when we were looking. Also many programs are located in Florida. Some pdocs who have more of an interest in lining their pockets in a sunny climate seem to congregate there! Sorry if I sound a tad cynical. I AM. It is also difficult to find a program that is not based on the 12-step program model. Unless your kids really need a change of environment and/or you want them to get away from a group of peers, etc., I don't know that it is worth sending them away. I think you can accomplish the same thing with a local program (depending on where you happen to live, I suppose). Anyway, I can give you a list of things to watch out for, questions to ask, etc. All stuff I didn't know when we were choosing a program!!! best, Tsohl
jules3
12-23-2006, 08:32 PM
Yes, florida is full of addiction programs. The place i am talking about does mostly specialize in the addiction part. so, you are right about that ts. I do agree with trying to keep it local so families can be more involved. hope, there is a good program in queens very close to long island.. The Zucker Hillside hospital..I know one of us did speak about it in the past.. The problem i have here is that my son refuses to go anywhere. And, i cant force him to because hes 20..So far, we are managing. Like i said 1day at a time.. If you are interested in florida, check out Watershed.. they have a web-site.
jules3
12-23-2006, 11:59 PM
Hope, sorry, you misunderstood.. i live on long island, n.y..my parents live in florida..and i made a mistake ,its not melbourne its in boynton beach and boca...i dont know why i said melbourne..sorry for the confusion.:)
langlee
12-24-2006, 02:24 PM
Hi All,
To all of you - I'm very interested in any and all input about dual diagnosis facilities. That was recommended by the inpatient program and I am resistant for the same reasons Tsohl mentioned. (I'd love ALL of your thoughts and experiences on this, Tsohl.)
Like everyone, I'm trying to get ready for the holidays, but I'll write more later. As always, we're in flux.
Love to all,
Hope
To all of you - I'm very interested in any and all input about dual diagnosis facilities. That was recommended by the inpatient program and I am resistant for the same reasons Tsohl mentioned. (I'd love ALL of your thoughts and experiences on this, Tsohl.)
Like everyone, I'm trying to get ready for the holidays, but I'll write more later. As always, we're in flux.
Love to all,
Hope
tsohl
12-24-2006, 02:53 PM
Hi,
I'll think about what I have to say about facilities we looked into and will write more later. I have company and am doing lots of cooking and haven't wrapped any gifts yet!!
Try not to despair over your children. Be grateful you know where they are and that you have a relationship with them. Things seem really tough right now, but because you are all such strong moms, I have faith that your kids will come around. It may take awhile, but with your love and guidance they will eventually realize that they must take charge of their B.D. Things are far from hopeless. They have a condition that can be managed and they can lead wonderful, healthy lives. You're all on the right path. You must just be patient and positive and loving.
I wish you all a Merry Christmas.
love,
Tsohl
I'll think about what I have to say about facilities we looked into and will write more later. I have company and am doing lots of cooking and haven't wrapped any gifts yet!!
Try not to despair over your children. Be grateful you know where they are and that you have a relationship with them. Things seem really tough right now, but because you are all such strong moms, I have faith that your kids will come around. It may take awhile, but with your love and guidance they will eventually realize that they must take charge of their B.D. Things are far from hopeless. They have a condition that can be managed and they can lead wonderful, healthy lives. You're all on the right path. You must just be patient and positive and loving.
I wish you all a Merry Christmas.
love,
Tsohl
jules3
12-26-2006, 11:55 AM
Hi,
I hope you guys had a wonderful christmas.. we for the most part did. My son had a couple of violent outbursts that made us very nervous..and alot of palpitations that subsided when i gave him a xanax. Im thinking that this week i will find him a new doctor. I feel like hes not being treated with the right medication..Hes extremely moody and thats not getting better on seroquel..all that does is help him sleep. I hate the idea of starting from scratch with somebody , but he feels like he wants a new doc, so i cant tell him no..i have to try and help him. the angry mean outbursts have to stop! its just not normal for a 20 yr. old not to get a better grip on his moods...its sad and pathetic for him..he feels bad afterwards.. i just wish i had some names of pdocs on long island..i hate going in cold..any suggestions? anybody from ny?
I hope you guys had a wonderful christmas.. we for the most part did. My son had a couple of violent outbursts that made us very nervous..and alot of palpitations that subsided when i gave him a xanax. Im thinking that this week i will find him a new doctor. I feel like hes not being treated with the right medication..Hes extremely moody and thats not getting better on seroquel..all that does is help him sleep. I hate the idea of starting from scratch with somebody , but he feels like he wants a new doc, so i cant tell him no..i have to try and help him. the angry mean outbursts have to stop! its just not normal for a 20 yr. old not to get a better grip on his moods...its sad and pathetic for him..he feels bad afterwards.. i just wish i had some names of pdocs on long island..i hate going in cold..any suggestions? anybody from ny?
langlee
12-26-2006, 03:04 PM
Hi All,
Hope you all had a wonderful holiday. We did, as best we could, considering all the loss this year.
Jules, I don't have a recommendation for a pdoc, but I would suggest you get several names and call them first. Have a llist of questions ready (e.g. their familiarity with bipolar, how often are they willing to changes meds, etc. - anything you want to know). I was surprised when my pdoc told me he limits his practice to 4 bipolar teens at a time because they are so time-consuming. He wasn't being mean - just honest - and my son is one of his four, but it's something to think about. You might also want to try some of the teaching hospitals in NY, too, to see if they have any recommendations.
To me, learning to manage BP is a race against time. Our sons are young and have their whole lives in front of them and we want them to keep moving! We are also hindered some times because while they, too, want to feel better, they don't always make the best choices for themselves.
I'll write more later, but just wanted to let you know I'm here for you!
Tsohl, thanks for the support for all of us! You always make me feel hopeful!
Love,
Hope
Hope you all had a wonderful holiday. We did, as best we could, considering all the loss this year.
Jules, I don't have a recommendation for a pdoc, but I would suggest you get several names and call them first. Have a llist of questions ready (e.g. their familiarity with bipolar, how often are they willing to changes meds, etc. - anything you want to know). I was surprised when my pdoc told me he limits his practice to 4 bipolar teens at a time because they are so time-consuming. He wasn't being mean - just honest - and my son is one of his four, but it's something to think about. You might also want to try some of the teaching hospitals in NY, too, to see if they have any recommendations.
To me, learning to manage BP is a race against time. Our sons are young and have their whole lives in front of them and we want them to keep moving! We are also hindered some times because while they, too, want to feel better, they don't always make the best choices for themselves.
I'll write more later, but just wanted to let you know I'm here for you!
Tsohl, thanks for the support for all of us! You always make me feel hopeful!
Love,
Hope
tsohl
12-26-2006, 04:02 PM
Hello ladies,
I think Goody is in the Long Island vicinity. Goody: We need some help here!!!
We had a lovely Christmas...the very normal, regular kind. It was an absolute joy to see our son be able to sit through the entire day, participating and just sitting around doing nothing without getting antsy and irritable as a result. I clearly remember times not so long ago that it made us uncomfortable to have him around because it took so much effort for him to try to sit and participate...so, there is hope for all of you!!
Jule, I would definitely look for another pdoc if you don't have faith in this one, and particularly, if your son doesn't relate to him. We didn't have any choice in our son's treatment as he began when away at college and took it all upon himself...so we've always just followed his lead. He was the one who came to us and said he felt he needed to go to a residential dual diagnosis treatment program. He did the research and gave us the one he had selected and then I checked it out and looked into some others, as well. But we knew if his choice was at all ok, since it was the one he had picked out, we knew he would be more compliant and willing to follow through on it.
Our son also took seroquel when he couldn't sleep. What else is your son taking? Does he have a mood stabilizer? Is there some doubt about him being bipolar? I should go back through your posts but it's easier just to ask you again!!
Hope's suggestions for finding a new pdoc were all very good ones. It takes time to find the right doc but it is definitely worth it. You could also call your local chapter of NAMI and see if they would have any recommendations.
I have company here the rest of the week so had best close for now. I'll write more when I have more time. Glad to hear your Christmas was without major drama. best, Tsohl
I think Goody is in the Long Island vicinity. Goody: We need some help here!!!
We had a lovely Christmas...the very normal, regular kind. It was an absolute joy to see our son be able to sit through the entire day, participating and just sitting around doing nothing without getting antsy and irritable as a result. I clearly remember times not so long ago that it made us uncomfortable to have him around because it took so much effort for him to try to sit and participate...so, there is hope for all of you!!
Jule, I would definitely look for another pdoc if you don't have faith in this one, and particularly, if your son doesn't relate to him. We didn't have any choice in our son's treatment as he began when away at college and took it all upon himself...so we've always just followed his lead. He was the one who came to us and said he felt he needed to go to a residential dual diagnosis treatment program. He did the research and gave us the one he had selected and then I checked it out and looked into some others, as well. But we knew if his choice was at all ok, since it was the one he had picked out, we knew he would be more compliant and willing to follow through on it.
Our son also took seroquel when he couldn't sleep. What else is your son taking? Does he have a mood stabilizer? Is there some doubt about him being bipolar? I should go back through your posts but it's easier just to ask you again!!
Hope's suggestions for finding a new pdoc were all very good ones. It takes time to find the right doc but it is definitely worth it. You could also call your local chapter of NAMI and see if they would have any recommendations.
I have company here the rest of the week so had best close for now. I'll write more when I have more time. Glad to hear your Christmas was without major drama. best, Tsohl
missesbeames
12-26-2006, 04:39 PM
Hi all, hope everyones holidays were good. My daughter Sierra is 13 and was diagnosed at age 8...thats just the little re-cap. Anyway, we had a decent holiday, a few outbursts from sierra, but she has been a little better the last week I guess. We have been having a heck of a time with her school, and I requested a CSE meeting for her and got it on jan 3rd. The school has not been compliant with her iep at all, and no one there gets it or understands the problem. One teacher in particular has been a royal bagga-douche...anyway, I finally called the superintendent and vociferously complained. I am SICK of that school totally but i live in a rural area and there is only about 700 students in the entire elementary junior and senior high schools. The lack of communication between departments is appalling, and I am REALLLLLY frustrated. Also been feeling pretty down and tired myself, it wears you out after a while taking care of your BP child's needs and I have 4 other girls to boot who need me. I try the best I can, but lord knows I am not perfect. Anyway that is my news from my tiny neck of the woods, hope everyone's new year is great.
jules3
12-26-2006, 05:09 PM
Well, i was able to get him an appt. today.. hes there now..its amazing how we can move mountains for our kids..Remember he is 20 yrs old..not a minor..i did call the doc and speak to him a little about my son and his behaviour..just gave him a quick background. i did telll him i would like to go with him today, but the doc disagread andtold me he'd rather see him alone for an hour today to gain some trust!
He also assured methat if HE feels like he needs to see me or my husband, he will let us know...this can go either way today, my son could hate him or love him.
ts, hes on seroquel and effexor..thats it. Christmas was ok, but its like we are always skating around him as to not set him off..you know what i mean?
i do think he needs additional meds..but im not a doctor as he tells me all the time...we shall see...thanks everybody!
He also assured methat if HE feels like he needs to see me or my husband, he will let us know...this can go either way today, my son could hate him or love him.
ts, hes on seroquel and effexor..thats it. Christmas was ok, but its like we are always skating around him as to not set him off..you know what i mean?
i do think he needs additional meds..but im not a doctor as he tells me all the time...we shall see...thanks everybody!
goody2shuz
12-26-2006, 06:14 PM
Hi, everyone:wave: Sorry if you thought I had abandoned you all here....things have been so busy trying to keep up with Erin's needs and my brother being in the hospital for over 2 weeks. Hubby travelled and joined my other brother and the two of them knocked out building a handicapped ramp so that my brother could get into the house once he was discharged home. This was all the day before Christmas Eve....and thank God my brother was discharged home. The doctor still is quite worried about his condition and has advised them to bring him right back if his condition further declines but feels that it would be best for him to be amongst family. I live about 3 1/2 hours away which makes it difficult.....these are the times that I hate being so far away from family.
Anyway, Jules, Erin is treated by an Adolescent Psychiatrist but I beleive I may have a few names for you. I have to locate them and will post them when I have them handy. It has been extremely difficult for me to find a decent psychiatrist...as a matter of fact, just to get Erin her next month's meds I had to schedule her with the psychiatrist who misdiagnosed her in the first place.....the state is done with us and the only appointment I could get with anybody soon enough to get meds was with the psychiatrist she had seen before the state took over. We are on a waiting list for a psychiatrist who comes highly recommended who works with adolescents and is good with meds in treating Bipolar. He may also treat adults. His name is Dr. Neil Rosen and he is in the Huntington area. Your son is now considered an adult....I have a friend who has a son who is older and I will see if I could get some info from her that may help you out. It may take me a while with the holidays....we are preparing to leave for a few days to be with my brother and my side of the family so I promise to help out ASAP.
Who knows....perhaps this new pdoc may be one I come up with and it may give you some peace of mind at least. Let us know how things go once he comes back from his appointment.
To all you wonderful people here who continue to sustain me through the difficult moments and share in the triumphs as well....I hope you had a very Merry Christmas and that the New Year to come is one in which we move closer to stability with our children. I know that there is much to be thankful for....as for me, things are so much better than the beginning of this year and they can only get better. I just feel blessed to have this place to come where I can always find the support and comfort to help me through it all.
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Anyway, Jules, Erin is treated by an Adolescent Psychiatrist but I beleive I may have a few names for you. I have to locate them and will post them when I have them handy. It has been extremely difficult for me to find a decent psychiatrist...as a matter of fact, just to get Erin her next month's meds I had to schedule her with the psychiatrist who misdiagnosed her in the first place.....the state is done with us and the only appointment I could get with anybody soon enough to get meds was with the psychiatrist she had seen before the state took over. We are on a waiting list for a psychiatrist who comes highly recommended who works with adolescents and is good with meds in treating Bipolar. He may also treat adults. His name is Dr. Neil Rosen and he is in the Huntington area. Your son is now considered an adult....I have a friend who has a son who is older and I will see if I could get some info from her that may help you out. It may take me a while with the holidays....we are preparing to leave for a few days to be with my brother and my side of the family so I promise to help out ASAP.
Who knows....perhaps this new pdoc may be one I come up with and it may give you some peace of mind at least. Let us know how things go once he comes back from his appointment.
To all you wonderful people here who continue to sustain me through the difficult moments and share in the triumphs as well....I hope you had a very Merry Christmas and that the New Year to come is one in which we move closer to stability with our children. I know that there is much to be thankful for....as for me, things are so much better than the beginning of this year and they can only get better. I just feel blessed to have this place to come where I can always find the support and comfort to help me through it all.
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
12-26-2006, 06:23 PM
Wow! I'm impressed you got an appointment so quickly. I'll be eager to hear how your son felt about the new guy. It's good he (the pdoc) was willing to speak with you.
I guess Seroquil is frequently used to treat irritability. And I DO know what you mean about the "skating around."
Hope this new pdoc works out well. They each seem to have their own ideas on how to medicate! best, Tsohl
I guess Seroquil is frequently used to treat irritability. And I DO know what you mean about the "skating around."
Hope this new pdoc works out well. They each seem to have their own ideas on how to medicate! best, Tsohl
jules3
12-26-2006, 08:25 PM
Thanks guys, hope i will take those names whenever you get the time..Yes, he is an adult not considered an adolosent.
He did have a visit today with a new pdoc, he came home looking a little better. The doc didnt give him any medication at all today he told him to come back next week and he will talk about medications then. I think he wanted to get to know him a little first..Does that make sense? I am confused. I mean this is only the 2nd doctor and i know they are all different,but im still confused. My son liked him, he said he was very normal and laid back. He told my son, that he could see how tightly wound up he is..could even seee that he was having trouble catching his breath. He has an appt.next week. I guess we just have to hope to have a good week here!
I appreciate the concern..thanks again
He did have a visit today with a new pdoc, he came home looking a little better. The doc didnt give him any medication at all today he told him to come back next week and he will talk about medications then. I think he wanted to get to know him a little first..Does that make sense? I am confused. I mean this is only the 2nd doctor and i know they are all different,but im still confused. My son liked him, he said he was very normal and laid back. He told my son, that he could see how tightly wound up he is..could even seee that he was having trouble catching his breath. He has an appt.next week. I guess we just have to hope to have a good week here!
I appreciate the concern..thanks again
jules3
12-26-2006, 08:26 PM
Hope, sorry i meant goody, when i was asking for the names of pdocs...
langlee
12-30-2006, 02:07 PM
Hi All,
Just a quick note to let you all know I'm still here.
I am becoming a professional mourner. My brother-in-law's mother passed away yesterday - 5 weeks to the day my sister passed away! Although she was older and it's not a shock, I can't believe we have to go through another funeral again. At least this one should not affect Zac as much.
We had a relatively good Christmas, all things considered.
Jules, I'm so happy to hear about the new pdoc! Keep us posted!
I have lots to share, but I'm getting ready to go to my brother-in-law's. All of the kids are flying in today from around the country and there are airport pick-ups, etc.
Happy New Year to all. May 2007 be kind to our children and to us!
Love,
Hope
Just a quick note to let you all know I'm still here.
I am becoming a professional mourner. My brother-in-law's mother passed away yesterday - 5 weeks to the day my sister passed away! Although she was older and it's not a shock, I can't believe we have to go through another funeral again. At least this one should not affect Zac as much.
We had a relatively good Christmas, all things considered.
Jules, I'm so happy to hear about the new pdoc! Keep us posted!
I have lots to share, but I'm getting ready to go to my brother-in-law's. All of the kids are flying in today from around the country and there are airport pick-ups, etc.
Happy New Year to all. May 2007 be kind to our children and to us!
Love,
Hope
Pippinkitty
01-01-2007, 01:22 PM
Pippin here! I've been jumping the hoops here and once again thought I had made progress with educating family members and as a result garnered a little more support and understanding. Not a lot but baby steps work for me. Anyhoo, Erika just returned from a visit with her Dad. They went to his wife's parent's home in Erie, PA. When Erika returned home she told us she hadn't taken her morning dose all week and seemed fine. Her morning dose consists of 1/2 of her daily lithium and 1/4 of her Geodon. I was naturally distressed when hearing this because I have worked so hard with her to keep her med compliant and get her stabilized. I have been able to step back but my husband now thinks she has been manipulating us all this time. She said she knew she had to hide it as much as possible because her Dad would hit her but my current husband is not having any of it. He has already started separating himself by going to his train room. I am so tired of having to convince people to learn and understand. Here are my questions-I appreciate any feedback you can give me. Are there any split families with a bipolar who is able to curb the negative outward symptoms when around the other parent? Is it fair to expect my current husband to seek his own answers?
For those who know me-I had a squamous carcinoma removed from my calf in Nov. It grew back within 2 weeks so I had to have it, along with a chunk of healthy tissue, removed last week-13 stitches-not too bad. Hopefully he got it all this time. Here's my funny with it-while the doc was filleting my calf I was listening to CD's about raising teenagers. I told him I had to zone out-it worked! For all you fair-skinned people-I was never one to lay out in the sun. I was never a sunbather although I have always liked swimming and being around the water. My "bump" didn't look like what I have seen in pictures. Mine was light pink-almost flesh toned, round, itchy, and sometimes flakey, slightly raised. The size somewhere between a nickel and a dime. Don't ignore. Not usually malignant but can be if let go.
Look forward to hearing from you! Happy New Year!:wave: Pippin
For those who know me-I had a squamous carcinoma removed from my calf in Nov. It grew back within 2 weeks so I had to have it, along with a chunk of healthy tissue, removed last week-13 stitches-not too bad. Hopefully he got it all this time. Here's my funny with it-while the doc was filleting my calf I was listening to CD's about raising teenagers. I told him I had to zone out-it worked! For all you fair-skinned people-I was never one to lay out in the sun. I was never a sunbather although I have always liked swimming and being around the water. My "bump" didn't look like what I have seen in pictures. Mine was light pink-almost flesh toned, round, itchy, and sometimes flakey, slightly raised. The size somewhere between a nickel and a dime. Don't ignore. Not usually malignant but can be if let go.
Look forward to hearing from you! Happy New Year!:wave: Pippin
goody2shuz
01-01-2007, 03:36 PM
Hello, Everybody:wave: And Pippin, thanks for checking in, I do hope that you get some feedback from others who are in the "split family" situation....I know that second marriages and stepparenting are difficult enough...add Bipolar into the equation and that makes things so much more of a challenge.
Just to straighten the facts out a little bit...as I recall, you are almost certain that your ex hubby is Bipolar but he denies it....am I correct?? And I am having a little difficulty following what exactly is happening in your family dynamics. Erika is compliant when with you, but decided on her own that she didn't need to take her morning doses of meds while visiting with her dad. Did you confirm this with your ex??? I am a little mixed up....Erika didn't tell your ex because she was afraid of what he would do (hit her)....I don't know, Pippin, but it could very well be that Erika is playing you, I mean if she truly understands the importance of taking her meds as perscribed and how important that is then why all of a sudden decide on her own to not take them knowing that her dad might get upset by that??? I know that a big thing that happens when Erin gets unstable is her distorting the truth and almost pitting hubby and I against one another so that the focus is taken off of her?? Do you think that there is a possibility that she is doing this?? And what about her Lithium levels....surely they will be affected by her readjustment of her meds. When is she due for a recheck?? Perhaps a call into her pdoc is warranted. As far as Erika being able to curb her behavior whether in a split family or not our kids are certainy able to curb their behavior with those they feel they need to have in their camp...peers, teachers, friends, coaches and yes father's who could possibly assist them in accomplishing their goal of getting what they want at the time. So many Bipolar kids are able to hold it together in the classroom and at school but let loose at home with their families because that is where they feel safest and where they know that they will not have ill effects from their behavior as they would if they had done the same in school or when around their peers. So many times I have heard and read about parents being told what a wonderful child they have and the parent wondering if they are talking about the same kid who at home says the most horrible things and has the household in such turmoil. So yes, Pippin, it is possible that Erika can hold it together at your hubby's and not at your home.
I got such a kick out of your story about listening to your parenting CD...just goes to show how proactive us mom's can be and how by doing so we c an be distracted from all those lemons that are being thrown our way.;) I do hope that they have gotten all of those cancer cells and that you will not have any more calf fileting to contend with. To think that you can stay so positive and reach out to us when so much is going on in your life....I find that by doing so things don't seem so bad and it is easier to get through all of this.
Jules....when is your son's next pdoc appointment??? Some of the doctors that I came up with are a Dr.Yogendra Upadhyay who is at South Oaks/Amityville area and a Dr. Doug Marcus in the Amityville/Great Neck area. I am not sure that they are just adolescent or adult so you may want to check into them. I will mention more as they come to mind or through some of the resources that I am in contact with.
Hope ~ I am so sorry to hear about yet another loss for your family. I know that this is not easy and that we of course worry about the overall effect this will have on our kids. I am going through a similar thing with my brother and his declining health. We had our family reunion at my other brother's house and witnessed how rapidly this neurological disorder is taking over my brother's life. Several times he went into violent tremors that had him almost falling out of the recliner he was lying in all the time aware of his surroundings and unable to control what was happening. These episodes were 20 miinutes in length and it was so painful to only be able to rub his leg as he rode it out knowing that there was very little more we could do until the meds kicked in. We got a call yesterday that he was brought back to the hospital because now he is unable to pee and may be going into kidney failure. Each time he is hospitalized his condition further declines. Last night as we celebrated with friends I got a call from my brother wishing me a Happy New Year and telling me that he was on his way home from the hospital with a catheter in place to collect his urine. He told me that they think that his condition has led to a nerogenic bladder in which he has no sensation of when his bladder is full and that from what they explained is irreversible. The pain of yet another loss from this disorder was in my brother's voice and yet he took the time to call me to wish me a Happy New Year. I cried telling him how much I loved him and when I hung up I went to the bathroom and had my own pity party praying that some miracle would happen to make my brother better.
2006 has been a difficult year for me and my family....Erin, thank God seems to be in a good place, however, my brother I fear will not get better and our family will have to continue to bear witness to his further decline. But I still believe in miracles and this is a time that our family sure could use one.
So A Happy New Year to everyone and may we all be blessed with many steps forward in finding the stability that our kids need.
(((HUGS))) and God's blessings ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Just to straighten the facts out a little bit...as I recall, you are almost certain that your ex hubby is Bipolar but he denies it....am I correct?? And I am having a little difficulty following what exactly is happening in your family dynamics. Erika is compliant when with you, but decided on her own that she didn't need to take her morning doses of meds while visiting with her dad. Did you confirm this with your ex??? I am a little mixed up....Erika didn't tell your ex because she was afraid of what he would do (hit her)....I don't know, Pippin, but it could very well be that Erika is playing you, I mean if she truly understands the importance of taking her meds as perscribed and how important that is then why all of a sudden decide on her own to not take them knowing that her dad might get upset by that??? I know that a big thing that happens when Erin gets unstable is her distorting the truth and almost pitting hubby and I against one another so that the focus is taken off of her?? Do you think that there is a possibility that she is doing this?? And what about her Lithium levels....surely they will be affected by her readjustment of her meds. When is she due for a recheck?? Perhaps a call into her pdoc is warranted. As far as Erika being able to curb her behavior whether in a split family or not our kids are certainy able to curb their behavior with those they feel they need to have in their camp...peers, teachers, friends, coaches and yes father's who could possibly assist them in accomplishing their goal of getting what they want at the time. So many Bipolar kids are able to hold it together in the classroom and at school but let loose at home with their families because that is where they feel safest and where they know that they will not have ill effects from their behavior as they would if they had done the same in school or when around their peers. So many times I have heard and read about parents being told what a wonderful child they have and the parent wondering if they are talking about the same kid who at home says the most horrible things and has the household in such turmoil. So yes, Pippin, it is possible that Erika can hold it together at your hubby's and not at your home.
I got such a kick out of your story about listening to your parenting CD...just goes to show how proactive us mom's can be and how by doing so we c an be distracted from all those lemons that are being thrown our way.;) I do hope that they have gotten all of those cancer cells and that you will not have any more calf fileting to contend with. To think that you can stay so positive and reach out to us when so much is going on in your life....I find that by doing so things don't seem so bad and it is easier to get through all of this.
Jules....when is your son's next pdoc appointment??? Some of the doctors that I came up with are a Dr.Yogendra Upadhyay who is at South Oaks/Amityville area and a Dr. Doug Marcus in the Amityville/Great Neck area. I am not sure that they are just adolescent or adult so you may want to check into them. I will mention more as they come to mind or through some of the resources that I am in contact with.
Hope ~ I am so sorry to hear about yet another loss for your family. I know that this is not easy and that we of course worry about the overall effect this will have on our kids. I am going through a similar thing with my brother and his declining health. We had our family reunion at my other brother's house and witnessed how rapidly this neurological disorder is taking over my brother's life. Several times he went into violent tremors that had him almost falling out of the recliner he was lying in all the time aware of his surroundings and unable to control what was happening. These episodes were 20 miinutes in length and it was so painful to only be able to rub his leg as he rode it out knowing that there was very little more we could do until the meds kicked in. We got a call yesterday that he was brought back to the hospital because now he is unable to pee and may be going into kidney failure. Each time he is hospitalized his condition further declines. Last night as we celebrated with friends I got a call from my brother wishing me a Happy New Year and telling me that he was on his way home from the hospital with a catheter in place to collect his urine. He told me that they think that his condition has led to a nerogenic bladder in which he has no sensation of when his bladder is full and that from what they explained is irreversible. The pain of yet another loss from this disorder was in my brother's voice and yet he took the time to call me to wish me a Happy New Year. I cried telling him how much I loved him and when I hung up I went to the bathroom and had my own pity party praying that some miracle would happen to make my brother better.
2006 has been a difficult year for me and my family....Erin, thank God seems to be in a good place, however, my brother I fear will not get better and our family will have to continue to bear witness to his further decline. But I still believe in miracles and this is a time that our family sure could use one.
So A Happy New Year to everyone and may we all be blessed with many steps forward in finding the stability that our kids need.
(((HUGS))) and God's blessings ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
01-01-2007, 06:32 PM
Goody, thanks for the docs names.He has a 2nd appt. this wednesday with a pdoc..he liked him the 1st visit...we shall see...you never know!. im just happy we made it thru new years eve.
Happy new years everyone..lets hope its a better year for ALL OF US!
Happy new years everyone..lets hope its a better year for ALL OF US!
tsohl
01-02-2007, 02:59 AM
Hello friends,
Just wanted to wish you all some joy and peace in 2007.
Goody, so sorry to hear about your brother and his deteriorating condition. It sounds like you, Hope and Pippin all have your special challenges in addition to the problems with your children. From what I've read in some of your other posts, it sounds like Erin is doing reasonably well. I look forward to hearing more about her progress in the near future. How is the play going? Did things go ok with both girls home for Christmas?
Hope~I am so sorry to hear about yet another death in your family. You must really feel like you are being given more than your share this year. How is Zac responding since he is back home?
Pippin~I, too was a bit confused by your last post regarding Erika's dad. Hope your leg is healing and that the doc got all of it this time. My MIL had a similar surgery two summers ago and then last summer on the other leg. It took awhile to heal as it left a fairly large "hole."
And Jules, has your son been off meds since going to the new pdoc or did the new pdoc just not prescribe anything yet? I will be eager to hear your comments after his next appointment. Glad he made it ok through the holidays. Hopefully things will calm down when his buddies go back to their respective colleges. Has your son thought about reducing his load for the coming semester?
We had a nice holiday and we saw more of our son than I have in recent time due to his sister being home from college and my aunt visiting for the holidays. He may be stable on his meds but he still is very intense and I find him tiring to be around for long periods!! Things are definitely livelier, and, usually, more fun, too. But this empty nester won't mind at all when things go back to normal in a few more days! Happy New Year!! best, Tsohl
Just wanted to wish you all some joy and peace in 2007.
Goody, so sorry to hear about your brother and his deteriorating condition. It sounds like you, Hope and Pippin all have your special challenges in addition to the problems with your children. From what I've read in some of your other posts, it sounds like Erin is doing reasonably well. I look forward to hearing more about her progress in the near future. How is the play going? Did things go ok with both girls home for Christmas?
Hope~I am so sorry to hear about yet another death in your family. You must really feel like you are being given more than your share this year. How is Zac responding since he is back home?
Pippin~I, too was a bit confused by your last post regarding Erika's dad. Hope your leg is healing and that the doc got all of it this time. My MIL had a similar surgery two summers ago and then last summer on the other leg. It took awhile to heal as it left a fairly large "hole."
And Jules, has your son been off meds since going to the new pdoc or did the new pdoc just not prescribe anything yet? I will be eager to hear your comments after his next appointment. Glad he made it ok through the holidays. Hopefully things will calm down when his buddies go back to their respective colleges. Has your son thought about reducing his load for the coming semester?
We had a nice holiday and we saw more of our son than I have in recent time due to his sister being home from college and my aunt visiting for the holidays. He may be stable on his meds but he still is very intense and I find him tiring to be around for long periods!! Things are definitely livelier, and, usually, more fun, too. But this empty nester won't mind at all when things go back to normal in a few more days! Happy New Year!! best, Tsohl
goody2shuz
01-02-2007, 08:42 AM
Hi, Tsohl ~ Funny how you should ask about how things are going now that Kait is home. They seemed to be going well.....that is, until last night when I confronted Kait about her taking liquor from us. We have recently moved and when trying to locate some food coloring in the garage in one of the bins, as I opened one, our collection of various liquors was revealed and Kait's reaction was as if I had struck gold. I warned hubby that we should do something about it, we left for our family reunion and returned home in time to celebrate New Year's Eve with some friends. Erin had plans to be with her best friend where we use to live and Kait was going over a friend's house and spending the night. New Year's Eve day hubby was fishing and I was out getting my nails done. Shortly after we returbed Kait & Erin headed out....Kait was rather rude when we asked where she would be, she stated she was 18 and no longer should have to disclose that, hubby and I told her that as long as she lived under our roof she would and even afterwards it would be nice because even to this day if I were going to be somewhere on vacation or out of the norm that I still informed my parents. She gave me attitude....Erin did as well and off they went. Oh the day before we left for my brother's Erin had vommited 3 times....it was a night after she had some friends over and she had fallen asleep forgetting to take her meds so I had Kait bring them up to her. That night she had skipped dinner so I figured that the meds had not agreed with her on an empty stomach. I recalled how she had brought glasses down from her room after her friends left and questioned her when one smelt like alcohol and she claimed that they had only soda.
Well, after I had discovered the bin and knowing how busy it was going to be during the holidays, I set a leaf on the bin of liquor to alert me if it had been tampered with. Kait came home yesterday, New Year's Day, and was intending on going out with friends again. The previous night, when in our old town we ran into her and she told hubby that her brakes were making a funny noise. Hubby took it for a spin and said it needed checking into and to be very careful driving home and to only drive it to her friend's house and if it worstened to call us. It was pouring rain all day yesterday and we were relieved when she got home safely. Meanwhile, I went out to the bin and discovered it had been tampered with. Hubby asked Kait if she had taken any liquor from us, she said no. He did a search of her vehicle while she showered and found an entire bottle of our vodka in her car. We confronted her, told her we were disappointed that she was stealing from us and also lying. Hubby told her that her plans were off for the evening and that if she ever took anything from us again she would not be welcome to stay with us. She argued that her plans were not to be cancelled, hubby told her that they were and reminded her that her car was not safe to drive anyway. Kait insisted on being able to use one of our vehicles and we told her that we would not be lending her it because of what she had done and also she couldn't be trusted. Next thing she was heading out the door and in her car she took off. Hubby called her cell and told her that if she didn't return immediately don't even bother coming home and that we would take action to make sure she was not driving a vehicle that was dangerous. Our plan was to lock the doors and if she came back by her cufew the only way she would gain access to our home would be for her to relinquish both sets of her keys and to tell her that she is no longer welcome home on her school breaks unless she could abide by our house rules and not steal from us. We have yet to hear from her.
Okay, Tsohl, you are a little bit ahead of me here...any thoughts???
Also when Kait was confronted she mentioned how Erin was in the liquor bin as well. We confronted Erin on this and she admitted to have taken some rum and put it into a seltzer bottle and took it to her friend's house but decided not to drink it. We asked her to get it and found the bottle full. She started crying how she only wanted to experiment but that she had gotten sick when she had tried drinking in her room with her friends....that was the night that she had thrown up three times and she said that she only had a little vodka and knew how she had reacted badly and decided it wasn't worth it to do again. she started crying telling us how all kids experiment and we went over how in her case it was not a wise choice because of her beingon meds that shouldn't be mixed with other drugs or alcohol AND her predisposition to developing an addiction due to family history and our knowledge that Bipolar and drug/alcohol addictions could occur simultaneously. She cried saying that she was sorry and had learned her lesson...we told her that she had lost our trust and until it could be regained that she couldn't have friends in her room.
Kait was the only one who knew where the liquor was so I know that she intitiated everything and made sure that she had stocked up on her alcohol....she has been taking trips out to her car to talk on the phone with friends and I have a feeling that it was to drink....she smokes as well and I know that she steps out to smoke because we have told her there is not smoking, drugs or alcohol in our house. So it wouldn't surprise me that she is spending tine in her car having a drink as well. I think that Kait has more of a problem than we are aware of.....Erin got extremely upset while my parents were with me about how worried she is about Kait and how much she drinks and uses weed, this was even before Kait came home from college. The thing that bothers me is that she seems to be drinking alone now which is a huge red light to me.
I have many thoughts going on here....Kait is due to go back to college by the 7th. I am so concerned about that knowing that we may have more of a problem than she is admitting to. Tsohl, you said that your son used drugs and alcohol before things got bad and that he had some addictions to deal with....please tell me what you think we should do?? Do we allow Kait to hit rock bottom or do we take matters into our own hands?? I am upset because when we had discovered that Kait was drinking alcohol that she took from us and served to her friends in her room while we had friends over, I took her to an AA meeting and there many shared how their lives were ruined by alcohol and oneman in particular shared how it had started when he was aroun 15 with experiementation and it worstened in college and continued to do so....he graduated but by the skin of his teeth and eventually the alcohol had taken everything away from him, his job, his friends, his family and that he was now alone. He shared how he had made sure that he would always have a source of alcohol by owning a restaurant with his own stocked bar. Kait is pursuing hotel/restaurant management. That really scares me.
Okay...so here I am entering 2007 with many worries....it only lasted a day, I thought that we were in a good place with the girls and now it is starting all over. I need some input and suggestions on how I might handle this. I have some thoughts...lots of thoughts running through my mind and it would be nice to see what others here may suggest in this situation. Tsohl...perhaps you could ask your son what may have helped him when this all began,...if there was anything you could have done to help prevent what had happened....that would perhaps be a good place to start....my intuition is thata if I push too hard it may make things even worse. What can I do??? We do have the leverage of funding her college and her car. I await your suggestions.
~ Goody needing some (((HUGS))):angel: :wave:
Well, after I had discovered the bin and knowing how busy it was going to be during the holidays, I set a leaf on the bin of liquor to alert me if it had been tampered with. Kait came home yesterday, New Year's Day, and was intending on going out with friends again. The previous night, when in our old town we ran into her and she told hubby that her brakes were making a funny noise. Hubby took it for a spin and said it needed checking into and to be very careful driving home and to only drive it to her friend's house and if it worstened to call us. It was pouring rain all day yesterday and we were relieved when she got home safely. Meanwhile, I went out to the bin and discovered it had been tampered with. Hubby asked Kait if she had taken any liquor from us, she said no. He did a search of her vehicle while she showered and found an entire bottle of our vodka in her car. We confronted her, told her we were disappointed that she was stealing from us and also lying. Hubby told her that her plans were off for the evening and that if she ever took anything from us again she would not be welcome to stay with us. She argued that her plans were not to be cancelled, hubby told her that they were and reminded her that her car was not safe to drive anyway. Kait insisted on being able to use one of our vehicles and we told her that we would not be lending her it because of what she had done and also she couldn't be trusted. Next thing she was heading out the door and in her car she took off. Hubby called her cell and told her that if she didn't return immediately don't even bother coming home and that we would take action to make sure she was not driving a vehicle that was dangerous. Our plan was to lock the doors and if she came back by her cufew the only way she would gain access to our home would be for her to relinquish both sets of her keys and to tell her that she is no longer welcome home on her school breaks unless she could abide by our house rules and not steal from us. We have yet to hear from her.
Okay, Tsohl, you are a little bit ahead of me here...any thoughts???
Also when Kait was confronted she mentioned how Erin was in the liquor bin as well. We confronted Erin on this and she admitted to have taken some rum and put it into a seltzer bottle and took it to her friend's house but decided not to drink it. We asked her to get it and found the bottle full. She started crying how she only wanted to experiment but that she had gotten sick when she had tried drinking in her room with her friends....that was the night that she had thrown up three times and she said that she only had a little vodka and knew how she had reacted badly and decided it wasn't worth it to do again. she started crying telling us how all kids experiment and we went over how in her case it was not a wise choice because of her beingon meds that shouldn't be mixed with other drugs or alcohol AND her predisposition to developing an addiction due to family history and our knowledge that Bipolar and drug/alcohol addictions could occur simultaneously. She cried saying that she was sorry and had learned her lesson...we told her that she had lost our trust and until it could be regained that she couldn't have friends in her room.
Kait was the only one who knew where the liquor was so I know that she intitiated everything and made sure that she had stocked up on her alcohol....she has been taking trips out to her car to talk on the phone with friends and I have a feeling that it was to drink....she smokes as well and I know that she steps out to smoke because we have told her there is not smoking, drugs or alcohol in our house. So it wouldn't surprise me that she is spending tine in her car having a drink as well. I think that Kait has more of a problem than we are aware of.....Erin got extremely upset while my parents were with me about how worried she is about Kait and how much she drinks and uses weed, this was even before Kait came home from college. The thing that bothers me is that she seems to be drinking alone now which is a huge red light to me.
I have many thoughts going on here....Kait is due to go back to college by the 7th. I am so concerned about that knowing that we may have more of a problem than she is admitting to. Tsohl, you said that your son used drugs and alcohol before things got bad and that he had some addictions to deal with....please tell me what you think we should do?? Do we allow Kait to hit rock bottom or do we take matters into our own hands?? I am upset because when we had discovered that Kait was drinking alcohol that she took from us and served to her friends in her room while we had friends over, I took her to an AA meeting and there many shared how their lives were ruined by alcohol and oneman in particular shared how it had started when he was aroun 15 with experiementation and it worstened in college and continued to do so....he graduated but by the skin of his teeth and eventually the alcohol had taken everything away from him, his job, his friends, his family and that he was now alone. He shared how he had made sure that he would always have a source of alcohol by owning a restaurant with his own stocked bar. Kait is pursuing hotel/restaurant management. That really scares me.
Okay...so here I am entering 2007 with many worries....it only lasted a day, I thought that we were in a good place with the girls and now it is starting all over. I need some input and suggestions on how I might handle this. I have some thoughts...lots of thoughts running through my mind and it would be nice to see what others here may suggest in this situation. Tsohl...perhaps you could ask your son what may have helped him when this all began,...if there was anything you could have done to help prevent what had happened....that would perhaps be a good place to start....my intuition is thata if I push too hard it may make things even worse. What can I do??? We do have the leverage of funding her college and her car. I await your suggestions.
~ Goody needing some (((HUGS))):angel: :wave:
jules3
01-02-2007, 09:03 AM
Goody,
Besides my 20 yr old with all his issues,i have an 18 yr.old girl too. She is a senior in h.s. and very normal..Let me tell you, there is drinking all around us,just about all of these kids drink..it is amazing. I am on top of them almost 24/7,but even thats not enough..she actually told me that some of her friends parents allow it..well, not this parent.drinking age is 21 in our state. But, the driving around with the vodka in the car is a huge no-no..she might find herself in jail for a night.maybe a good thing! anyway,this parenting job is real tough stuff, we are on our toes constanley.im always trying to be one step ahead..but, it doesnt always work. i also have a little one that we are just crazy about ,i guess cause we always know where she is..when people told us little kids little problems, big kids bigger problems...they were so right..i would love to freeze her.lol...
Besides my 20 yr old with all his issues,i have an 18 yr.old girl too. She is a senior in h.s. and very normal..Let me tell you, there is drinking all around us,just about all of these kids drink..it is amazing. I am on top of them almost 24/7,but even thats not enough..she actually told me that some of her friends parents allow it..well, not this parent.drinking age is 21 in our state. But, the driving around with the vodka in the car is a huge no-no..she might find herself in jail for a night.maybe a good thing! anyway,this parenting job is real tough stuff, we are on our toes constanley.im always trying to be one step ahead..but, it doesnt always work. i also have a little one that we are just crazy about ,i guess cause we always know where she is..when people told us little kids little problems, big kids bigger problems...they were so right..i would love to freeze her.lol...
tsohl
01-02-2007, 09:49 AM
Ok, guys...now that the aura of the new year is a couple hours behind us, it looks like the issues didn't magically disappear. Time to roll up our sleeves and get back to work..... While I agree with Jule that kids have a different attitude toward drinking today, Kait's behavior strikes me as extreme. I need to reread your post and think about it a bit before I write anything more. I have mixed feelings about ultimatums and I need to carefully examine the issues here before I feel comfortable trying to add something to the mix. But I wanted you to know that I am here for you and will be back soon. In the meantime, I send a big hug your way~and remember, Ruth :angel: is up there for consultation, too. best, Tsohl
tsohl
01-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Kait sounds like a very head-strong young woman. She strikes me as the type that probably just digs in that much harder when you issue ultimatums. Now you have to figure out if you are prepared to follow through. Are you prepared to be estranged from her if you use your financial powers over her and pull the plug, so to speak? I think your intuition has served you well in the past, and I'm guessing it will get you through this situation, too. Without knowing Kait it is difficult for me to guess how she would respond, but I'm guessing that you could very well make matters worse by issuing ultimatums. If you alienate her physically and emotionally, you will have no ability to influence her and guide her.
I share your concerns about her drinking and use of pot. It's one thing to "experiment" when among her peers, but if she is drinking on her own, you already know that is not a good thing. I can't give you much advice based on experience with our son as his situation was so different. He began using pot in high school in an attempt to control the feelings and emotions that we now know were caused by the onset of undiagnosed bipolar disorder. He did not drink or smoke to be cool or to fit in with his friends. As a matter of fact, he just recently told me that his friends were very worried about him and because of them he stopped using for months at a time. But he would go back to smoking pot because it was the only thing that made him feel even slightly under control.
It doesn't sound to me like making Kait attend AA meetings or anything along those lines will work with her. I'm sure she knows better and thinks she knows that she can handle things. I'm not sure what it will take to get through to her. Hopefully not having to "hit bottom." Our son had a wake-up call when it was time to get a full-time job after college. So many companies now perform routine drug testing even among their salaried employees and he realized he no longer could smoke pot without impunity!! If it weren't for that he might still be smoking as he still contends it made him feel more in control and more stable than any amount of lithium, lamictal or whatever. Perhaps he no longer feels this way. We haven't discussed it since just a few months after he stopped smoking.
I'm afraid I haven't been much help with any suggestions or advice for you. I will probably think of more in response to comments you make, but for now, will close. I'm sorry you're having to go through all of this on top of your worries with your brother, and of course, with Erin. Oh, one more thought....since Erin has talked to you on more than one occasion about her worries about Kait's drinking, what about talking to her now...along the line of what can you think of that we can do as a family to help her? Do you have any ideas that we haven't thought of? Not in a dividing way so she feels she has to side with her sister against the evil parents...but in the "we are family and Kait needs all our help...what are your ideas" kind of way.
I'll continue to mull and will probably have more ideas by tonight...but hopefully, the immediate drama will be over by then. best, Tsohl
I share your concerns about her drinking and use of pot. It's one thing to "experiment" when among her peers, but if she is drinking on her own, you already know that is not a good thing. I can't give you much advice based on experience with our son as his situation was so different. He began using pot in high school in an attempt to control the feelings and emotions that we now know were caused by the onset of undiagnosed bipolar disorder. He did not drink or smoke to be cool or to fit in with his friends. As a matter of fact, he just recently told me that his friends were very worried about him and because of them he stopped using for months at a time. But he would go back to smoking pot because it was the only thing that made him feel even slightly under control.
It doesn't sound to me like making Kait attend AA meetings or anything along those lines will work with her. I'm sure she knows better and thinks she knows that she can handle things. I'm not sure what it will take to get through to her. Hopefully not having to "hit bottom." Our son had a wake-up call when it was time to get a full-time job after college. So many companies now perform routine drug testing even among their salaried employees and he realized he no longer could smoke pot without impunity!! If it weren't for that he might still be smoking as he still contends it made him feel more in control and more stable than any amount of lithium, lamictal or whatever. Perhaps he no longer feels this way. We haven't discussed it since just a few months after he stopped smoking.
I'm afraid I haven't been much help with any suggestions or advice for you. I will probably think of more in response to comments you make, but for now, will close. I'm sorry you're having to go through all of this on top of your worries with your brother, and of course, with Erin. Oh, one more thought....since Erin has talked to you on more than one occasion about her worries about Kait's drinking, what about talking to her now...along the line of what can you think of that we can do as a family to help her? Do you have any ideas that we haven't thought of? Not in a dividing way so she feels she has to side with her sister against the evil parents...but in the "we are family and Kait needs all our help...what are your ideas" kind of way.
I'll continue to mull and will probably have more ideas by tonight...but hopefully, the immediate drama will be over by then. best, Tsohl
goody2shuz
01-02-2007, 02:50 PM
Thanks, guys...it feels great coming here knowing that I have others who have been there ane done that and can help me through these tough moments. Jules, you are so right about the alcohol and experimentation....Erin was in tears yesterday telling me how all of her friends are into drinking and that even some of their friends parents serve alcohol in their homes. I explained to her how that was not responsible parenting and that I would never be one of those parents because there are severe consequences to doing that could have me or her friends in trouble and that I would never place our family in that situation. Erin went to get the alcohol from her bag and mad stop to the bathroom upstairs.....I am inclined to think that she is not being very honest with me and had added some water to make it look as if she didn't have any....I don't like the lying and deceit. AND.....in her case it is important that I get through how dangerous it is to drink or use drugs when she is on her meds. I truly think that when she threw up that she realized that but then to go take some liquor afterwards doesn't support that she has learned her lesson. She claims that the vodka didn't agree with her and that she wanted to try the rum. I told her that by doing so that she would be placing herself in a dangerous situation, that unlike her friends who weren't on meds, she had alot more to risk by drinking alcohol and using drugs and that she could really hurt herself. I reminded her of how upset she was about her Big Sister's drinking and weed use and to go and do the same was not the wisest way of dealing with it....that even though she were younger she could be a good role model for her sister and at the same time be helping herself by not taking such risks as to have an addiciton on top of her Bipolar. I think that we really need to have more of a heart to heart and I am going to tell Erin that I would rather her not be on meds for her Bipolar if she were going to be using drugs and alcohol. We have an appointment with her old pdoc this week and I am going to tell her that as her parents that we must inform him and see what he suggests we do. Perhaps we need to have it instilled that we will be doing random tests....my friend who is a probation officer gave us some home tests and I think that we will be using them on both of our girls and have consequences if they come out to be positive.
Tsohl....I do appreciate your taking the time to think this over...I too am seeing from experience that ultimatums just don'g seem to be productive. So that you can give me the best advice I need to provide and update....I looked at Kait's recent pictures on her camera and it seems that there are some of her and her friends sneaking into our other house through her window. A few months ago we took Kait's keys away and disabled the electric key pad to access through the garage. Also amongst the pictures were numerous ones of her passed out in a bathtub (a friend must have taken those) as well as some of her passed out on the floor of her dorm room in the closet rather than here bed. So this truly is of real concern to me.
I informed hubby who will be stopping by our other house....my instincts tell me that she has been spending time there and most likely spent the night there if not at our next door neighbor's house who she is friends with. I just got off the phone with my next door neighbor and she informed me that Kait's car was not at the house and that her daughter who is very good friends with Kait has shared with her how concerned she is with Kait and her excessive partying. So my instincts are real.....my neighbor went on to tell me that her daughter has disclosed to her also her concerns regarding Kait's safety with driving a car. My friend suggested that we call Kait's friends and discuss our concerns with them...I feel as if Kait is walking on a tightrope here and the way in which I handle this will impact where she goes from here. Partying is all part of college life and a reality that I cannot shield Kait from. She has to be able to balance this and make sure that it doesn't get out of hand.
Also, I called hubby who was at the house and discovered that the screen to Kait's window was slit open in order to gain access to the house.
Just got a call from the state tdoc who has been working with Erin. She is aware of the problems that Kait has undergone and feels that we need to aggressively intervene....she feels that by allowing Kait to return to college would be a big mistake....that by what I described she has definite problems with alcohol and drugs and that to not intervene at this time would be a big mistake. She even feels that we should call the police and press charges on Kait as drastic as this all sounds it will be what may save her in the end. The tdoc is on her way over to help hubby and I formulate a concrete plan in order to make sure that we can follow through with it. The only thing is that this therapist doesn't have my total confidence....she has done well but she assures me that her specialty is drug and alcohol counseling.
What do you think?? We just paid over $7000 dollars to cover the second trimester's costs. Not that should be the most important thing. The therapist is insistent that we really take things by the horns...Kait does have a free ticket to do as she pleases while at college and how will we monitor her problem long distance. PLEASE help me out here....what should we do???
Just when I thought things were in a good place...also I also worry about having Kait home an how it can lead to a bad effect on Erin. After how far we have come this is of great concern to us.
The therapist just left and it seems that she thinks that minimumly we need to inform the school of our concerns...I know that Kait was brought up before the student conduct board within a week of being in college in regard to alcohol on her possession and thinks that we need to find out what exactly became of that and then see what type of counseling services they would recommend if we were to have her continue to go there. And she also told us it might be necessary to cancel her return to college and have her work for a while and earn her keep while showing us that she is responsible and doesn't have a drinking/drug problem. The thing is how do we monitor that??? There is only so much we can do but the therapist feels that we still have time to help Kait....to wait another year may be too late.
Oh geez....I just never know what is going to come my way. The therapist wants us to make copies of the pictures to show Kait why we have concern.
Any input you may have for us would be much appreciated....Jules I know that your 20 year old is home and perhaps you can tell me what it would be like if your were just getting your Bipolar 15 year old stabilized and then bring in an older sibling who is showing signs of alcohol/drug problems. I feel as if I have two kids drowning and don't know who to save first. On the other hand....our intervention with Kait may help Erin out by her seeing that we are just as concerned about her sister as we are of her and how we address it will make a big difference of showing Erin that there are no double standards set in our household. Erin is equally concerned as we are.....I know that to not do anything will show Erin in someway that we have given up on Kait and that certainly is not the message we want to give her or anyone.
Ruth, if ever I needed your intervention it would be right about now!!:angel: I know that you are still that angel who will intervene on our behalf and I really could use it right about now.
Still needing (((HUGS))) and reassurrance ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Tsohl....I do appreciate your taking the time to think this over...I too am seeing from experience that ultimatums just don'g seem to be productive. So that you can give me the best advice I need to provide and update....I looked at Kait's recent pictures on her camera and it seems that there are some of her and her friends sneaking into our other house through her window. A few months ago we took Kait's keys away and disabled the electric key pad to access through the garage. Also amongst the pictures were numerous ones of her passed out in a bathtub (a friend must have taken those) as well as some of her passed out on the floor of her dorm room in the closet rather than here bed. So this truly is of real concern to me.
I informed hubby who will be stopping by our other house....my instincts tell me that she has been spending time there and most likely spent the night there if not at our next door neighbor's house who she is friends with. I just got off the phone with my next door neighbor and she informed me that Kait's car was not at the house and that her daughter who is very good friends with Kait has shared with her how concerned she is with Kait and her excessive partying. So my instincts are real.....my neighbor went on to tell me that her daughter has disclosed to her also her concerns regarding Kait's safety with driving a car. My friend suggested that we call Kait's friends and discuss our concerns with them...I feel as if Kait is walking on a tightrope here and the way in which I handle this will impact where she goes from here. Partying is all part of college life and a reality that I cannot shield Kait from. She has to be able to balance this and make sure that it doesn't get out of hand.
Also, I called hubby who was at the house and discovered that the screen to Kait's window was slit open in order to gain access to the house.
Just got a call from the state tdoc who has been working with Erin. She is aware of the problems that Kait has undergone and feels that we need to aggressively intervene....she feels that by allowing Kait to return to college would be a big mistake....that by what I described she has definite problems with alcohol and drugs and that to not intervene at this time would be a big mistake. She even feels that we should call the police and press charges on Kait as drastic as this all sounds it will be what may save her in the end. The tdoc is on her way over to help hubby and I formulate a concrete plan in order to make sure that we can follow through with it. The only thing is that this therapist doesn't have my total confidence....she has done well but she assures me that her specialty is drug and alcohol counseling.
What do you think?? We just paid over $7000 dollars to cover the second trimester's costs. Not that should be the most important thing. The therapist is insistent that we really take things by the horns...Kait does have a free ticket to do as she pleases while at college and how will we monitor her problem long distance. PLEASE help me out here....what should we do???
Just when I thought things were in a good place...also I also worry about having Kait home an how it can lead to a bad effect on Erin. After how far we have come this is of great concern to us.
The therapist just left and it seems that she thinks that minimumly we need to inform the school of our concerns...I know that Kait was brought up before the student conduct board within a week of being in college in regard to alcohol on her possession and thinks that we need to find out what exactly became of that and then see what type of counseling services they would recommend if we were to have her continue to go there. And she also told us it might be necessary to cancel her return to college and have her work for a while and earn her keep while showing us that she is responsible and doesn't have a drinking/drug problem. The thing is how do we monitor that??? There is only so much we can do but the therapist feels that we still have time to help Kait....to wait another year may be too late.
Oh geez....I just never know what is going to come my way. The therapist wants us to make copies of the pictures to show Kait why we have concern.
Any input you may have for us would be much appreciated....Jules I know that your 20 year old is home and perhaps you can tell me what it would be like if your were just getting your Bipolar 15 year old stabilized and then bring in an older sibling who is showing signs of alcohol/drug problems. I feel as if I have two kids drowning and don't know who to save first. On the other hand....our intervention with Kait may help Erin out by her seeing that we are just as concerned about her sister as we are of her and how we address it will make a big difference of showing Erin that there are no double standards set in our household. Erin is equally concerned as we are.....I know that to not do anything will show Erin in someway that we have given up on Kait and that certainly is not the message we want to give her or anyone.
Ruth, if ever I needed your intervention it would be right about now!!:angel: I know that you are still that angel who will intervene on our behalf and I really could use it right about now.
Still needing (((HUGS))) and reassurrance ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
01-02-2007, 04:29 PM
Goody,
i feel so bad for what you are going thru now. nobody can ever imagine how hard this is.dealing with kids this age and then have isssues on top of it..as far as school is concerned,my feel is it needs to go on the back burner until things are taken care of with the drinking and drugs etc.. We wasted a whole semester at least 10.000$ on my son this past year..started with 15 credits ended with 6 credits because of the bipolar,drinking,pills. even is doc said his health has to come first not school..and believe me we are devastated by this, because we as adults know how important college is in this day and age..im almost positive we are not sending him back this coming semester. granted he is 20 and a little older than kate..but still, he lives in our home and we pay for his education.
as far as my 18 yr old goes i know she experiments with alcohol and pot, but we never had any real problems with her..she has seen alot of crap with her brother..maybe that is a good thing in her case...she starts college in the fall,shes dorming upstate,so all i can do is pray she makes smart decisions..isnt it hard? its so easy when they are young..
about erin, i thought to myself at one point maybe my son is better off without his medications if he was going to drink. so, i know how you feel about that.. but,decided against taking them away from him..i know he has some beers with the guys now and then..but havent seen him drunk in weeks..so thats good...but, then again hes only on seroquel and effexor. you have a legititmate concern with her meds and drinking.
my daughter has told me that some of her friends drink their parents vodka and replace it with water..vodka does not have a very strong odor..so, i believe it..just writing all this turns my stomach..will it ever end?
i feel so bad for what you are going thru now. nobody can ever imagine how hard this is.dealing with kids this age and then have isssues on top of it..as far as school is concerned,my feel is it needs to go on the back burner until things are taken care of with the drinking and drugs etc.. We wasted a whole semester at least 10.000$ on my son this past year..started with 15 credits ended with 6 credits because of the bipolar,drinking,pills. even is doc said his health has to come first not school..and believe me we are devastated by this, because we as adults know how important college is in this day and age..im almost positive we are not sending him back this coming semester. granted he is 20 and a little older than kate..but still, he lives in our home and we pay for his education.
as far as my 18 yr old goes i know she experiments with alcohol and pot, but we never had any real problems with her..she has seen alot of crap with her brother..maybe that is a good thing in her case...she starts college in the fall,shes dorming upstate,so all i can do is pray she makes smart decisions..isnt it hard? its so easy when they are young..
about erin, i thought to myself at one point maybe my son is better off without his medications if he was going to drink. so, i know how you feel about that.. but,decided against taking them away from him..i know he has some beers with the guys now and then..but havent seen him drunk in weeks..so thats good...but, then again hes only on seroquel and effexor. you have a legititmate concern with her meds and drinking.
my daughter has told me that some of her friends drink their parents vodka and replace it with water..vodka does not have a very strong odor..so, i believe it..just writing all this turns my stomach..will it ever end?
jules3
01-02-2007, 04:29 PM
Goody,
i feel so bad for what you are going thru now. nobody can ever imagine how hard this is.dealing with kids this age and then have isssues on top of it..as far as school is concerned,my feel is it needs to go on the back burner until things are taken care of with the drinking and drugs etc.. We wasted a whole semester at least 10.000$ on my son this past year..started with 15 credits ended with 6 credits because of the bipolar,drinking,pills. even is doc said his health has to come first not school..and believe me we are devastated by this, because we as adults know how important college is in this day and age..im almost positive we are not sending him back this coming semester. granted he is 20 and a little older than kate..but still, he lives in our home and we pay for his education.
as far as my 18 yr old goes i know she experiments with alcohol and pot, but we never had any real problems with her..she has seen alot of crap with her brother..maybe that is a good thing in her case...she starts college in the fall,shes dorming upstate,so all i can do is pray she makes smart decisions..isnt it hard? its so easy when they are young..
about erin, i thought to myself at one point maybe my son is better off without his medications if he was going to drink. so, i know how you feel about that.. but,decided against taking them away from him..i know he has some beers with the guys now and then..but havent seen him drunk in weeks..so thats good...but, then again hes only on seroquel and effexor. you have a legititmate concern with her meds and drinking.
my daughter has told me that some of her friends drink their parents vodka and replace it with water..vodka does not have a very strong odor..so, i believe it..just writing all this turns my stomach..will it ever end?
i feel so bad for what you are going thru now. nobody can ever imagine how hard this is.dealing with kids this age and then have isssues on top of it..as far as school is concerned,my feel is it needs to go on the back burner until things are taken care of with the drinking and drugs etc.. We wasted a whole semester at least 10.000$ on my son this past year..started with 15 credits ended with 6 credits because of the bipolar,drinking,pills. even is doc said his health has to come first not school..and believe me we are devastated by this, because we as adults know how important college is in this day and age..im almost positive we are not sending him back this coming semester. granted he is 20 and a little older than kate..but still, he lives in our home and we pay for his education.
as far as my 18 yr old goes i know she experiments with alcohol and pot, but we never had any real problems with her..she has seen alot of crap with her brother..maybe that is a good thing in her case...she starts college in the fall,shes dorming upstate,so all i can do is pray she makes smart decisions..isnt it hard? its so easy when they are young..
about erin, i thought to myself at one point maybe my son is better off without his medications if he was going to drink. so, i know how you feel about that.. but,decided against taking them away from him..i know he has some beers with the guys now and then..but havent seen him drunk in weeks..so thats good...but, then again hes only on seroquel and effexor. you have a legititmate concern with her meds and drinking.
my daughter has told me that some of her friends drink their parents vodka and replace it with water..vodka does not have a very strong odor..so, i believe it..just writing all this turns my stomach..will it ever end?
goody2shuz
01-02-2007, 06:03 PM
Hi, Jules and all ~ The thing with Kait is that she doesn't see this as a problem, even after we layed out the photos she got upset with us saying how we had some nerve going into her camera without her permission. She blamed everything on us trying to take the focus off of herself...called me a f*ing ***** and telling me that I have been saying that she had a problem for years and she doesn't. Hubby and I brought up how she was stealing from us, lying, breaking into our home without our permission and hiding alcohol in her car. She claimed that everyone did that and she was no exception and that everyone must have a drinking problem too. She argued that cutting the screen to gain access into our other home was her right since it was her home too. Her attitude and sense of not owning up to her mistakes had hubby calling the cops to at least make an official report. The police officer has everything documented and was wonderful at sharing with Kait how he too was concerned about her actions and how at 18 years old she was already setting herself up for a future involving the law in which she would not have the opportunity to succeed if things continued to go the way that they were. He also shared how he had seen over many years the end results of teens who acted like her and that the best case scenario was a job at Walmart if at all or even death. He looked at the pictures and told her that by what he saw she had a real problem and that she probably didn't think so and that she may think that it was normal but it wasn't normal for parents to be put in this position of not trusting their own children and that if she were ever to want to work in a restaurant/hotel that having a felony with alcohol or drugs would never land her a job in the future. He also went on to explain how driving a car with bad brakes could land her in jail and if we really wanted to we could have her arrested for breaking and entry. We told the officer that we didn't want that at this time but the next time we would do so.....that we were tired of all this and that from here on out she would be responsible for her actions. He went on to ask Kait if alcohol was her only problem....she admitted freely to using weed and he told her that it was not a good combo. He gave us alanon and AA information and told Kait that the complaint would be on record and that she was not to be in the other house or she would be arrested and have an instant record.
When he left the officer told hubby that it seemed that Kait barely listened to what he was saying and that we should continue to use tough love and perhaps she would wake up.
Kait went on to tell us that we should be more concerned about Erin and how she had drank on Christmas Eve and that was why she was sick....I told her that I already knew that and she upped the ante by telling me that Erin also was playing this choking passing out game and that we should worry more about her. I told her to stop taking the focus off of herself, that I was already concerned about Erin and that the issue still was about her and our legitimate concerns about her alcohol/drug use and overall behavior. We took the keys away for the car and told her that we would be cancelling the registration and insurance and if she took any vehicle without our permission that we would call the police. The officer told us our rights to have her evicted if she continued to be a problem and told her that it would be wise if she changed her ways before she wore out her welcome in her own home, that he had seen the results of that and it wasn't good.
So we have alot of anger going on here....we told Kait that not only we were concerned but her sister and friends were as well and that if she didn't see a problem then all those who cared about her couldn't be wrong. WE told her that we had alot to think about and that we weren't sure about her going back to college that we would be calling the college and setting up an appointment with the student services to ascertain our options. ( They are closed today for the holiday break) And that it may very well come down to her coming home and working a job for a while so that she could get herself back on the right track with our assistance. That college was a provelege and not a ticket to party and screw up your life.
She is in such denial....she doesn't even see that there is a problem...we were going to do a drug/alcohol test that our friend gave us and she admitted to using weed yesterday and we told her there would be no more of that allowed if she wanted to live under our roof. We still have decisions to make.....we still don't know what is best.....Erin is extremely upset about Kait's ratting her out and has told her to go back to college that she doesn't care anymore.....I told her that she was entitled to that but that I had my concerns about her welfare and that some of the things Kait had shared were and could be life threatening. When I asked her about the choking game she said that she did it once but once she learned how you could die from it she hasn't done it since. All of this is too much to absorb and I just don't know what to believe anymore. Hubby informed me that a neighbor invited us for dinner and that is the last thing I can think about. How can we go out an leave or trust these two girls???? And when do we get our lives back???
I need that oxygen mask.....and Ruth I sure hope that you send me a sign and some strong currents to keep me from geting too close to the ground.;) Boy how I miss your posts and your strength and grace that pulled me through such moments....I know that you haven't left me alone and that you will send in a fleet of angels for your friends here....would it be too soon for you to do it now???;)
Thanks everyone for your patience and support....I really don't know how I can get through this all....there are too many lemons and curveballs being thrown my way. It's getting so difficult to dodge them all when they seem to be coming all at once!!:dizzy:
((((HUGS)))) and thanks for the love and support ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
When he left the officer told hubby that it seemed that Kait barely listened to what he was saying and that we should continue to use tough love and perhaps she would wake up.
Kait went on to tell us that we should be more concerned about Erin and how she had drank on Christmas Eve and that was why she was sick....I told her that I already knew that and she upped the ante by telling me that Erin also was playing this choking passing out game and that we should worry more about her. I told her to stop taking the focus off of herself, that I was already concerned about Erin and that the issue still was about her and our legitimate concerns about her alcohol/drug use and overall behavior. We took the keys away for the car and told her that we would be cancelling the registration and insurance and if she took any vehicle without our permission that we would call the police. The officer told us our rights to have her evicted if she continued to be a problem and told her that it would be wise if she changed her ways before she wore out her welcome in her own home, that he had seen the results of that and it wasn't good.
So we have alot of anger going on here....we told Kait that not only we were concerned but her sister and friends were as well and that if she didn't see a problem then all those who cared about her couldn't be wrong. WE told her that we had alot to think about and that we weren't sure about her going back to college that we would be calling the college and setting up an appointment with the student services to ascertain our options. ( They are closed today for the holiday break) And that it may very well come down to her coming home and working a job for a while so that she could get herself back on the right track with our assistance. That college was a provelege and not a ticket to party and screw up your life.
She is in such denial....she doesn't even see that there is a problem...we were going to do a drug/alcohol test that our friend gave us and she admitted to using weed yesterday and we told her there would be no more of that allowed if she wanted to live under our roof. We still have decisions to make.....we still don't know what is best.....Erin is extremely upset about Kait's ratting her out and has told her to go back to college that she doesn't care anymore.....I told her that she was entitled to that but that I had my concerns about her welfare and that some of the things Kait had shared were and could be life threatening. When I asked her about the choking game she said that she did it once but once she learned how you could die from it she hasn't done it since. All of this is too much to absorb and I just don't know what to believe anymore. Hubby informed me that a neighbor invited us for dinner and that is the last thing I can think about. How can we go out an leave or trust these two girls???? And when do we get our lives back???
I need that oxygen mask.....and Ruth I sure hope that you send me a sign and some strong currents to keep me from geting too close to the ground.;) Boy how I miss your posts and your strength and grace that pulled me through such moments....I know that you haven't left me alone and that you will send in a fleet of angels for your friends here....would it be too soon for you to do it now???;)
Thanks everyone for your patience and support....I really don't know how I can get through this all....there are too many lemons and curveballs being thrown my way. It's getting so difficult to dodge them all when they seem to be coming all at once!!:dizzy:
((((HUGS)))) and thanks for the love and support ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Pippinkitty
01-02-2007, 09:31 PM
I'll try to clarify-I typed my post in a hurry and was pretty upset. I gave Erika's Dad the meds all divided up into morning and evening doses with a medication chart and instructions written on the two 7-day containers. Erika is compliant here with me pushing and being verbally abused twice a day for it. Her Dad is bipolar but in denial and does not believe in "all this stuff". His brother is diagnosed bipolar and his mother is as well. I may have mentioned it before but he is a Lt. Col. in the Air Force and believes discipline is the answer to everything.
Thanks for the feedback so far. Hang in there all and yep, looking for the funny, kooky things in life help me keep going. Pippin
Thanks for the feedback so far. Hang in there all and yep, looking for the funny, kooky things in life help me keep going. Pippin
jules3
01-02-2007, 10:42 PM
Goody, i know exactly what you are saying..we drug test our son all the time..it used to come up positive for pain pills..its been negative for weeks now..we will not tolerate drugs.. pain pills numb you and that is what he was trying to achieve. hes rough to deal with, we are always skating around him and i am getting tired of it..we cant go out and trust them home alone either. i wish i had advice for you but im kinda going thru the same thing..im trying to stay 1 step ahead but its starting to destroy my marriage among other things.i wish my 20 yr old was out on his own!
langlee
01-02-2007, 11:26 PM
Oh Goody!
I am so sorry you are going through all of this now. I know how heartsick you are and how hard it is when there doesn't seem to be any answers. I'm going to read all of your posts and see if I can get caught up. You certainly don't need this, but I know you will find a way to handle it. You are so strong.
I'm concerned about the advice of the tdoc, only in the sense that you don't really trust her. The whole alcohol/susbstance abuse world is so difficult to deal with and finding someone you trust and who can give you good advice seems almost impossible. There are alot of big rehab places who might have some resources for you or be able to give you some direction. I know that Hazeldon is a well-respected name.
In the meantime, I am sending you huge hugs and I know that Ruth is watching over you.
Love,
Hope
I am so sorry you are going through all of this now. I know how heartsick you are and how hard it is when there doesn't seem to be any answers. I'm going to read all of your posts and see if I can get caught up. You certainly don't need this, but I know you will find a way to handle it. You are so strong.
I'm concerned about the advice of the tdoc, only in the sense that you don't really trust her. The whole alcohol/susbstance abuse world is so difficult to deal with and finding someone you trust and who can give you good advice seems almost impossible. There are alot of big rehab places who might have some resources for you or be able to give you some direction. I know that Hazeldon is a well-respected name.
In the meantime, I am sending you huge hugs and I know that Ruth is watching over you.
Love,
Hope
jules3
01-02-2007, 11:34 PM
Who is Ruth?
goody2shuz
01-03-2007, 12:26 AM
Thanks, Hope, for your continued support and words of understanding. This thread serves as a wonderful lifeline and the people on this board are just great. This is all so difficult to share with family and friends who are not going through it so being here and having found you guys is such a gift.
Jules, Ruth was a wonderful poster I met here when I first came to Healthboards....we met over on the Relationship Board and we seemed to think alike and be connected in a unique way...we felt as if we had a spiritual connection that reached out through cyberspace. We soon adopted one another as cybertwins and discovered that we both shared a strong faith and kinship with one another. After developing such a bond I had some troubles developing with both my girls...Ruth had no children and asked if she could co-parent my girls and soon I learned that she was Bipolar.
When Erin started showing signs of Bipolar, it was Ruth:angel: who gently took hold of my hand and brought me over to this board and told me that there were wonderful people here. I didn't doubt it because she was one of them.:wave: Who would have known that she would play such a vital role in my life....when we met I had no idea that she was Bipolar or that Erin would be diagnosed with it. I really truly believe that our paths were meant to cross.
Sadly we all learned, by a posting by her husband here on Healthboards, that our dear Ruth had passed away on November 4th. When I heard the news I truly felt as if I had lost a sister for we had such a wonderful bond.
I know that she is still among us and in a special way watching over me and my family as well as so many of her other friends here. We often spoke of how we felt that we would know one another when we finally met in heaven and recognize one another's souls.:angel: :angel:
She is a sister and friend who I truly miss and I know that she is still watching over me and is the wind beneath my wings.
~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Jules, Ruth was a wonderful poster I met here when I first came to Healthboards....we met over on the Relationship Board and we seemed to think alike and be connected in a unique way...we felt as if we had a spiritual connection that reached out through cyberspace. We soon adopted one another as cybertwins and discovered that we both shared a strong faith and kinship with one another. After developing such a bond I had some troubles developing with both my girls...Ruth had no children and asked if she could co-parent my girls and soon I learned that she was Bipolar.
When Erin started showing signs of Bipolar, it was Ruth:angel: who gently took hold of my hand and brought me over to this board and told me that there were wonderful people here. I didn't doubt it because she was one of them.:wave: Who would have known that she would play such a vital role in my life....when we met I had no idea that she was Bipolar or that Erin would be diagnosed with it. I really truly believe that our paths were meant to cross.
Sadly we all learned, by a posting by her husband here on Healthboards, that our dear Ruth had passed away on November 4th. When I heard the news I truly felt as if I had lost a sister for we had such a wonderful bond.
I know that she is still among us and in a special way watching over me and my family as well as so many of her other friends here. We often spoke of how we felt that we would know one another when we finally met in heaven and recognize one another's souls.:angel: :angel:
She is a sister and friend who I truly miss and I know that she is still watching over me and is the wind beneath my wings.
~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
01-03-2007, 12:51 AM
Wow. I admire your courage. I never could have called the cops. I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes, as a matter of fact. I have never had to face such defiant behavior with my kids. I can't even imagine drug testing. I don't think my son would have put up with it. I think he would have just taken off.
Did you end up going out for dinner? I imagine you are afraid to leave the girls alone at the moment. I am afraid your problems with Erin are going to get worse if Kait isn't allowed to return to college. Their negative energy seems to feed off each other. Is Kait the type to run away?
I am eager to hear what the college has to say if you decide to contact them. My son's college would pretty much not get involved in issues related to drinking and drugs. They were not about to function in loco parentis. But it sounds like Kait's college has a different attitude. What size is the student body? Please keep us all informed. We are all holding you in our thoughts and prayers. best, Tsohl
Did you end up going out for dinner? I imagine you are afraid to leave the girls alone at the moment. I am afraid your problems with Erin are going to get worse if Kait isn't allowed to return to college. Their negative energy seems to feed off each other. Is Kait the type to run away?
I am eager to hear what the college has to say if you decide to contact them. My son's college would pretty much not get involved in issues related to drinking and drugs. They were not about to function in loco parentis. But it sounds like Kait's college has a different attitude. What size is the student body? Please keep us all informed. We are all holding you in our thoughts and prayers. best, Tsohl
tsohl
01-03-2007, 01:41 AM
Hello Hope,
How are things in your world?
Just checking in....
Hugs your way, too.
Tsohl
How are things in your world?
Just checking in....
Hugs your way, too.
Tsohl
jules3
01-03-2007, 08:58 AM
goody, thats just a bittersweet story. i do believe shes watching over:angel:
tsohl
01-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Hi Goody, (and friends)
I was just rereading some old posts and I ran across someone you have to get in touch with....Gav 73--Read in the thread "Should I encourage her to go to college" by LAP18, one of her posts (#8) where she describes the kind of teen she was and what she put her parents through -- she definitely reminded me of what you're going through with Kait. She might be just the one to give you some good ideas on how to handle the situation.
I'm sending some prayers your way this morning, hoping your drama isn't intensifying with Kait. best regards, Tsohl
I was just rereading some old posts and I ran across someone you have to get in touch with....Gav 73--Read in the thread "Should I encourage her to go to college" by LAP18, one of her posts (#8) where she describes the kind of teen she was and what she put her parents through -- she definitely reminded me of what you're going through with Kait. She might be just the one to give you some good ideas on how to handle the situation.
I'm sending some prayers your way this morning, hoping your drama isn't intensifying with Kait. best regards, Tsohl
goody2shuz
01-03-2007, 11:29 AM
Thanks, Tsohl....yes I had come across Gav's posts before and alot of what she writes about seems so familiar so I think that her perspective of things may very well help me out. I know with your son, you didn't have the butting of heads going on....or perhaps as many therapists have shared with us, the friction seems to be with the opposite sex parent. How is/was your son's relationship with his dad??? Was it more strained??
Anyway, it is so frustrating because as you well pointed out, Kait does not respond to punishments or ultimatums very well, as a matter of fact she has told us that punishing her or taking priveleges away only makes things worse. The therapist tells us that she has held hubby and I with emotional blackmail and it is time for that to stop and have her take responsibility for her actions. As difficult as it was to call the police, we did because we want her to know that there will be consequences to her actions and we are nom longer afraid to take them. We are doing our part as parents and it is time for her to do her part as a young adult. Hubby and I are tired of always doing our part and her not doing hers. We are seriously thinking about evicting her if this continues.
Kait is getting the grades, they are lower than we or she expected...her first trimester she got a 2.61...she needs a 2.75 in order to receive her academic scholarship. I think that her objective is to party and she clearly has chosen friends who like to do the same. Yesterday she tried to make herself look better (as she often does) by telling me that her Bipolar roommate has been arrested for drinking and that her other suitemate was and the roommate were the ones brought up before the college board of conduct for possession of alcohol....she wasn't charged or given any penalties because it wasn't her alcohol BUT she was with them. They are on probation and had to go through alcohol counseling and pay a fine whereas Kait didn't. On top of this, one of the girls Kait told me Thanksgiving time, is a recovering alcoholic and her Bipolar roommate has a history of having been in a rehab for addiction and abuse of Adderall. Kait is no longer rooming with the Bipolar girl but is with the recovering alcoholic. It's not a pretty picture is it????
Unlike Gav, Kait is not seeing that she isn't ready for college....she believes academically she deserves to be there and I don't disagree. She is bright, however, her personal life choices may affect her entire future and the way I see it we cannot force her to WANT to come back home and work and go to a community college...in fact I see that as making matters worse in the sense that Kait will further rebel....she will find trouble here and ways to drink if she wants to. The thing is, at this point she doesn't see that she has a problem....in fact she has said that as far as she is concerned that this is normal because if it weren't then why are there so many people at her college and at home doing the same exact thing and some worse off than her. She told the police officer that she didn't think that there was a problem when he picked up the picture of her passed out in a bathtub. He told her that he disagreed, that she did have a problem and if she didn't start taking care of it she would either be dead or in jail. How much more could be said....Kait told us that we had the problem of being to involved or concerned about her life. So what do we do with that???
I have to get on the phone with the college and see what our options may be.....I am going to share my concerns with them and see if she would be accepted back if she took a year or two off and did some of her electives here and resumed when she was better able to control her drinking. The downside thing is that this college has her taking many of her core requirements in the first two years....,they do things flip side in terms of earning a degree so many of Kait's credits are non-transferable....she has taken Food Safety and Food and Sanitation as well as Front Dest Operations all of which are part of her major. So there is alot to look into.....I know that her well being comes first, however, if Kait doesn't see that then chances are she will continue down this road and there is very little we can do to change it. When she went to live with my brother the same things happened....she went and found the people who liked to party and she was suspended for drinking....she remained an honor student, but she still found trouble and gravitated towards the kids who liked to party. Chances are that she will do the same if we were to keep her home.
Things are rather quiet around here....Kait was up until 2 or 3am as usual and when she has nothing to do that is when she gets nasty....we are in the calm before the storm because we told her that her use of the car is done and that seeing her friends is over for the time being as well until we figure this all out.
We are going to dinner to our neighbors and embaressingly had to tell them that we had to bring out two teenage girls. This has been the 4th invite and we just couldn't decline again.
I will keep you posted...Jules I am so sorry that this is coming between you and your hubby. My advice would be to really try to give your energies to trying to salvage your marriage....all this CAN destroy any happiness you or I may have but it is our job to make certain that it doesn't. Take time for your relationship with your husband....that is so important because when all is said and done it was the two of you that started as the foundation and the two of you that must make sure that it doesn't crumble. I know that sometimes it feels as if we are in this alone but our hubbys are hurting and feeling it just as much, only they are not so good at showing it. Eventually your son will get on his own two feet and he will be walking into the sunset....sad if you and your hubby are left behind not able to watch it together.
Just my two cents worth but I know how much this all can suck out of you.....we have to ride the waves and when we are in the peak take advantage of that moment and look up to the sky and see the beauty that is still there in our lives. That is key to getting through the next trough....and as far as I am concerned, I want my hubby with me riding the waves through the sea of life. I am sure that you do to.;)
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Anyway, it is so frustrating because as you well pointed out, Kait does not respond to punishments or ultimatums very well, as a matter of fact she has told us that punishing her or taking priveleges away only makes things worse. The therapist tells us that she has held hubby and I with emotional blackmail and it is time for that to stop and have her take responsibility for her actions. As difficult as it was to call the police, we did because we want her to know that there will be consequences to her actions and we are nom longer afraid to take them. We are doing our part as parents and it is time for her to do her part as a young adult. Hubby and I are tired of always doing our part and her not doing hers. We are seriously thinking about evicting her if this continues.
Kait is getting the grades, they are lower than we or she expected...her first trimester she got a 2.61...she needs a 2.75 in order to receive her academic scholarship. I think that her objective is to party and she clearly has chosen friends who like to do the same. Yesterday she tried to make herself look better (as she often does) by telling me that her Bipolar roommate has been arrested for drinking and that her other suitemate was and the roommate were the ones brought up before the college board of conduct for possession of alcohol....she wasn't charged or given any penalties because it wasn't her alcohol BUT she was with them. They are on probation and had to go through alcohol counseling and pay a fine whereas Kait didn't. On top of this, one of the girls Kait told me Thanksgiving time, is a recovering alcoholic and her Bipolar roommate has a history of having been in a rehab for addiction and abuse of Adderall. Kait is no longer rooming with the Bipolar girl but is with the recovering alcoholic. It's not a pretty picture is it????
Unlike Gav, Kait is not seeing that she isn't ready for college....she believes academically she deserves to be there and I don't disagree. She is bright, however, her personal life choices may affect her entire future and the way I see it we cannot force her to WANT to come back home and work and go to a community college...in fact I see that as making matters worse in the sense that Kait will further rebel....she will find trouble here and ways to drink if she wants to. The thing is, at this point she doesn't see that she has a problem....in fact she has said that as far as she is concerned that this is normal because if it weren't then why are there so many people at her college and at home doing the same exact thing and some worse off than her. She told the police officer that she didn't think that there was a problem when he picked up the picture of her passed out in a bathtub. He told her that he disagreed, that she did have a problem and if she didn't start taking care of it she would either be dead or in jail. How much more could be said....Kait told us that we had the problem of being to involved or concerned about her life. So what do we do with that???
I have to get on the phone with the college and see what our options may be.....I am going to share my concerns with them and see if she would be accepted back if she took a year or two off and did some of her electives here and resumed when she was better able to control her drinking. The downside thing is that this college has her taking many of her core requirements in the first two years....,they do things flip side in terms of earning a degree so many of Kait's credits are non-transferable....she has taken Food Safety and Food and Sanitation as well as Front Dest Operations all of which are part of her major. So there is alot to look into.....I know that her well being comes first, however, if Kait doesn't see that then chances are she will continue down this road and there is very little we can do to change it. When she went to live with my brother the same things happened....she went and found the people who liked to party and she was suspended for drinking....she remained an honor student, but she still found trouble and gravitated towards the kids who liked to party. Chances are that she will do the same if we were to keep her home.
Things are rather quiet around here....Kait was up until 2 or 3am as usual and when she has nothing to do that is when she gets nasty....we are in the calm before the storm because we told her that her use of the car is done and that seeing her friends is over for the time being as well until we figure this all out.
We are going to dinner to our neighbors and embaressingly had to tell them that we had to bring out two teenage girls. This has been the 4th invite and we just couldn't decline again.
I will keep you posted...Jules I am so sorry that this is coming between you and your hubby. My advice would be to really try to give your energies to trying to salvage your marriage....all this CAN destroy any happiness you or I may have but it is our job to make certain that it doesn't. Take time for your relationship with your husband....that is so important because when all is said and done it was the two of you that started as the foundation and the two of you that must make sure that it doesn't crumble. I know that sometimes it feels as if we are in this alone but our hubbys are hurting and feeling it just as much, only they are not so good at showing it. Eventually your son will get on his own two feet and he will be walking into the sunset....sad if you and your hubby are left behind not able to watch it together.
Just my two cents worth but I know how much this all can suck out of you.....we have to ride the waves and when we are in the peak take advantage of that moment and look up to the sky and see the beauty that is still there in our lives. That is key to getting through the next trough....and as far as I am concerned, I want my hubby with me riding the waves through the sea of life. I am sure that you do to.;)
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
langlee
01-03-2007, 11:33 AM
Hi All,
Tsohl, thanks for always checking in on me. You are so kind!
Things here, for today, are calm. Zac has been in a good mood and said he feels like the medication is finally beginning to work. We had some travails over the holidays, as always, but managed to get through them without the usual bursts of anger and craziness.
We definitely all took a mental break over the holidays and enjoyed a week with no therapists, no psychiatrists, no school, no discussions. I think we all desperately needed it. Now we are getting back into the routine. The pdoc prescribed Concerta so Zac can see if that helps him with his focus. That continues to be his biggest issue and is the stress factor of returning back to school. He is doing fine with his tutors, but he is on such a relaxed schedule that I can't envision him getting back into the grind. Sleep continues to elude him (he has been on so many different meds) and now his whole body clock is off. I'm trying to get him up earlier in the morning, but it's hard when he doesn't fall asleep until 3:00 AM. He has also taken to night eating, which is not a good habit for so many reasons, and so my first priority this new year is helping him find a routine he can commit to.
I am so sympathetic about the drugs and alcohol, Goody. They are like sirens that call to our kids and are so difficult to manage. Please keep us posted about how you are doing. I wish I could give you some good advice, but I've struggled myself. The only thing I can tell you is that you are doing everything possible for your girls and that is all you can ask of yourself. We've had the cops here, too. The only way we could get Zac to go in-patient after my sister died was to have the cops come and take him in the ambulance. It was horriffic, but something we had to do.
What I have learned from this battle is that tomorrow it may all change but, for today, I am thankful to have my son back. He is truly two different people - the one we have always known with the great sense of humor, the keen intellect, and the compassion for those around him - or someone who turns truly monstruous, angry, abusive, volatile. When he is "himself", I find it hard to believe that he will ever turn into the other person and when he is that person I am fearful that I wll never see my son again. It is an ongoing journey, but one I am so thankful to share with all of you.
I love all of you as sisters of the heart.
Love,
Hope
Tsohl, thanks for always checking in on me. You are so kind!
Things here, for today, are calm. Zac has been in a good mood and said he feels like the medication is finally beginning to work. We had some travails over the holidays, as always, but managed to get through them without the usual bursts of anger and craziness.
We definitely all took a mental break over the holidays and enjoyed a week with no therapists, no psychiatrists, no school, no discussions. I think we all desperately needed it. Now we are getting back into the routine. The pdoc prescribed Concerta so Zac can see if that helps him with his focus. That continues to be his biggest issue and is the stress factor of returning back to school. He is doing fine with his tutors, but he is on such a relaxed schedule that I can't envision him getting back into the grind. Sleep continues to elude him (he has been on so many different meds) and now his whole body clock is off. I'm trying to get him up earlier in the morning, but it's hard when he doesn't fall asleep until 3:00 AM. He has also taken to night eating, which is not a good habit for so many reasons, and so my first priority this new year is helping him find a routine he can commit to.
I am so sympathetic about the drugs and alcohol, Goody. They are like sirens that call to our kids and are so difficult to manage. Please keep us posted about how you are doing. I wish I could give you some good advice, but I've struggled myself. The only thing I can tell you is that you are doing everything possible for your girls and that is all you can ask of yourself. We've had the cops here, too. The only way we could get Zac to go in-patient after my sister died was to have the cops come and take him in the ambulance. It was horriffic, but something we had to do.
What I have learned from this battle is that tomorrow it may all change but, for today, I am thankful to have my son back. He is truly two different people - the one we have always known with the great sense of humor, the keen intellect, and the compassion for those around him - or someone who turns truly monstruous, angry, abusive, volatile. When he is "himself", I find it hard to believe that he will ever turn into the other person and when he is that person I am fearful that I wll never see my son again. It is an ongoing journey, but one I am so thankful to share with all of you.
I love all of you as sisters of the heart.
Love,
Hope
langlee
01-03-2007, 11:50 AM
Dear Jules-
I, too, am sorry to hear that you and your husband are having challenges, but it's not surprising. This is tough for everyone. Although at times I get very frustrated with my husband, I know he is in pain, too. He has had a volatile relationship with Zac these past few years and it is especially difficult for him because they were extremely close when Zac was young. I wish that he handled things differently, but I accept him for who he is. I know his heart is in the right place. Like alot of men, he doesn't have the patience or the emotional reserve for the ups and downs of this disorder. But, he loves his son and he loves me and wants all of us to get to a better place.
One of the things I have tried to do is to create a "discussion-free" zone. When we go out to dinner or go out for the evening, I tell him that I don't want to discuss any of the negative things we are dealing with. If he wants to talk about constructive plans or options, I'm happy to do with that, but I don't want to dwell on all of the troubliing things we are facing. It has helped. It is too easy to become consumed by this and soon you find it's all you are talking about. It's a killer!
Just something to think about as you pace yourself.
Love,
Hope
I, too, am sorry to hear that you and your husband are having challenges, but it's not surprising. This is tough for everyone. Although at times I get very frustrated with my husband, I know he is in pain, too. He has had a volatile relationship with Zac these past few years and it is especially difficult for him because they were extremely close when Zac was young. I wish that he handled things differently, but I accept him for who he is. I know his heart is in the right place. Like alot of men, he doesn't have the patience or the emotional reserve for the ups and downs of this disorder. But, he loves his son and he loves me and wants all of us to get to a better place.
One of the things I have tried to do is to create a "discussion-free" zone. When we go out to dinner or go out for the evening, I tell him that I don't want to discuss any of the negative things we are dealing with. If he wants to talk about constructive plans or options, I'm happy to do with that, but I don't want to dwell on all of the troubliing things we are facing. It has helped. It is too easy to become consumed by this and soon you find it's all you are talking about. It's a killer!
Just something to think about as you pace yourself.
Love,
Hope
tsohl
01-03-2007, 12:41 PM
Goody,
I agree with the sentiments expressed in your last post completely. I don't see how keeping Kait home is going to be particularly productive. I think there are ways to let her continue on with her studies. I think the chances are just as great that she would continue on with her partying regardless of where she is living. At school there is always the chance that she will have some experience that will turn around her attitude--whether it be someone she meets, a professor, a class....etc. If she is at home she is always going to be looking for a way to foil you. She just may be one of those kids that has to learn by experience. It is very troubling that she seems to think everyone is doing the same thing. I don't suppose it would do any good to organize something along the lines of an intervention whereby just her peers would talk to her about their concerns? Obviously, she isn't going to take anything away from an adult. Has Kait always been this defiant and oppositional? When I read various comments you've made about how Kait thinks her behavior is on a par with everyone else she knows, how "everyone" is doing it, it sends up red flags for me. In many ways it sounds like she is living in a somewhat manic state. I would certainly continue monitoring her for signs of bipolarity.
Is Kait somewhat young for her class? I seem to recall her turning 18 after she entered college. Her behavior and attitudes strike me as rather immature as well. I'm really out on a limb here, but is there any possibility that Kait is behaving this way to command attention? Generally girls behave this way when they have little self-esteem or self-respect. Maybe you could look into whether her college offers any decent therapy or counseling and you could make that a condition for her return to school this semester. I'm really "thinking outloud" here so please don't let anything I'm writing without really thinking through offend you!! I'm just tossing out some ideas and maybe something will ring true.
To answer your question about our son, I would say that he and my husband have a good relationship. It has been more difficult for my husband to get his mind around understanding bipolar disorder, but he has really made an attempt to educate himself about it. My husband is a very calm, rational being who is used to tough negotiations and always deals from a position of logic so that helps a lot!! Our son has always been strong-willed and a perfectionist. He too is very logical. It is much easier to go along with him than to oppose him. We early on learned to structure what we wanted him to do in such a way that he perceived it as "his idea" and therefore was more willing to do it, work for it, etc. If he was really opposed to something we wanted or asked of him, it was like moving a mountain or trying to stop a tornedo from rotating. So I always structured things as much as possible to avoid conflict. Looking back at things as I write this, I can see that now he is more willing to listen to others opinions than previously. Could be age, or could be the meds....But the world still revolves around him and he still thinks his way is the best way, etc., and I doubt this will ever change!!
Glad to hear things are somewhat peaceful at the moment. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it continues. best, Tsohl
I agree with the sentiments expressed in your last post completely. I don't see how keeping Kait home is going to be particularly productive. I think there are ways to let her continue on with her studies. I think the chances are just as great that she would continue on with her partying regardless of where she is living. At school there is always the chance that she will have some experience that will turn around her attitude--whether it be someone she meets, a professor, a class....etc. If she is at home she is always going to be looking for a way to foil you. She just may be one of those kids that has to learn by experience. It is very troubling that she seems to think everyone is doing the same thing. I don't suppose it would do any good to organize something along the lines of an intervention whereby just her peers would talk to her about their concerns? Obviously, she isn't going to take anything away from an adult. Has Kait always been this defiant and oppositional? When I read various comments you've made about how Kait thinks her behavior is on a par with everyone else she knows, how "everyone" is doing it, it sends up red flags for me. In many ways it sounds like she is living in a somewhat manic state. I would certainly continue monitoring her for signs of bipolarity.
Is Kait somewhat young for her class? I seem to recall her turning 18 after she entered college. Her behavior and attitudes strike me as rather immature as well. I'm really out on a limb here, but is there any possibility that Kait is behaving this way to command attention? Generally girls behave this way when they have little self-esteem or self-respect. Maybe you could look into whether her college offers any decent therapy or counseling and you could make that a condition for her return to school this semester. I'm really "thinking outloud" here so please don't let anything I'm writing without really thinking through offend you!! I'm just tossing out some ideas and maybe something will ring true.
To answer your question about our son, I would say that he and my husband have a good relationship. It has been more difficult for my husband to get his mind around understanding bipolar disorder, but he has really made an attempt to educate himself about it. My husband is a very calm, rational being who is used to tough negotiations and always deals from a position of logic so that helps a lot!! Our son has always been strong-willed and a perfectionist. He too is very logical. It is much easier to go along with him than to oppose him. We early on learned to structure what we wanted him to do in such a way that he perceived it as "his idea" and therefore was more willing to do it, work for it, etc. If he was really opposed to something we wanted or asked of him, it was like moving a mountain or trying to stop a tornedo from rotating. So I always structured things as much as possible to avoid conflict. Looking back at things as I write this, I can see that now he is more willing to listen to others opinions than previously. Could be age, or could be the meds....But the world still revolves around him and he still thinks his way is the best way, etc., and I doubt this will ever change!!
Glad to hear things are somewhat peaceful at the moment. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it continues. best, Tsohl
tsohl
01-03-2007, 12:59 PM
That is excellent advice, Hope. You really can become completely consumed by a child's problems and it can eat you up. My husband is good at compartmentalizing but I am not. When something is on my mind, it is all-consuming and I talk it to death. I have had to learn to tread lightly at times and to really pay attention to the timing of when I say things. For example my daughter will graduate from college in one semester. She is excited and scared at the same time about the future, so I have to be very careful what I say to her about her "plans." If I bring it up at the "right time" we have a nice conversation. But if I am insensitive and bring it up when I want to, I can quickly reduce her to tears, at the very least, or ruin the day!! She needs to know that we can do things together and have fun and that every time she's with me she's not going to face a grilling about her future.
Hope, you expressed what I'm trying to say perfectly and it is very good advice for all of us!! I'm pleased to hear that Zac is at least a bit happier with himself. Even once meds are in place there is still a long ways to go to learn to live again...to develop the confidence that one can go on with life, make plans, achieve. After spending much more time than usual with our son over the holidays, I see that while he appears more himself, he has a ways to go to regain his confidence regarding rejoining the work force and focusing on a "career" as opposed to a job.
Hope you have a good day. Best regards, Tsohl
Hope, you expressed what I'm trying to say perfectly and it is very good advice for all of us!! I'm pleased to hear that Zac is at least a bit happier with himself. Even once meds are in place there is still a long ways to go to learn to live again...to develop the confidence that one can go on with life, make plans, achieve. After spending much more time than usual with our son over the holidays, I see that while he appears more himself, he has a ways to go to regain his confidence regarding rejoining the work force and focusing on a "career" as opposed to a job.
Hope you have a good day. Best regards, Tsohl
goody2shuz
01-03-2007, 01:52 PM
Tsohl and all my wonderful friends ~ Nothing you could say would ever offend me....in fact your words sure do comfort me as well as the time and genuine caring that goes into your wonderful posts that carry me through what I envision is the battlefield. I aslo feel Ruth's love and energy in the works as she sends in a fleet of angels:angel:
I feel empowered and just got off the phone with the Director of Parent Resources at the college and she spent quite sometime with me. I feel empowered and I shared alot with her and as I did she told me numerous times that I seem to be handling the situation quite well and have thought out what is best for Kait very well. She advised me that if Kait were to return part of the conditions should be that she sign what is called a Buckley Ammendment Waiver...there are 3 in all and she told me we should insist that Kait sign all three that would allow us the right to be informed of any conduct, Academic or Health problems that may occur while she is at college. She also told me that since we are funding Kait we have every right to spell out our expectations and conditions of our doing so. She advised me to contact the Head RA of her dorm and inform him of the situation as well and tell him that we expect to hear of any problems should they arise within the dorm. She also told me that Kait should be capable of pulling a 3.2 cummulative average and that the 2.61 that she got last semester should be unacceptable. That part of our expectations would be for her to pass the Food and Sanitation exam that she is retaking from last semester and that this semester she get a 3.2 or she will not return the following semester funded by us. That way she will not be able to party and drink as she has been doing or will want to do. I also was reassurred that IF we were to have to take her out that we wouldn't lose our money and that she would help us recup almost all of it if need be. I was amazed by that. This woman sounded like an angel....she asked me several times throughout our conversation to keep her in the loop with how things go and how she may further assist us.
So I feel that Kait is going to see that we are serious, that even though she cannot be babysat every step of the way that if she doesn't do her end of things we have no intentions of doing our end of things. We are placing conditions, and reasonable ones on our further funding her education. And she will also know that if she has to come home that she will be earning her keep and have to get to and from college via bus until we are assurred that she is responsible enough to drive a car again
Tsohl ~ You seem to have pinpointed Kait to a T....she has been just as strong willed and defiant like this since she was 14 years old. I have a few threads that describe what we went through with her (they are long ones;) ) and if you have an opportunity I would love if you could take a peek at them because at the time I didn't know what was going on but since it has continued I am still concerned that Kait may be Bipolar as well. The thing is at the time I didn't know any better....she has never been suicidal but she has been quite defiant and manic....always bored unless she was on the go and several times running away into the cold dark night without a coat or shoes on. She never liked our rules even though they were the same as her friends....we were terrible parents and she wanted to live anywhere but with us. She wanted to make her own rules and live her own way without any boundaries. And if she didn't get her way she would make it so that it would be her way. She was a tornadoe and caused much turmoil within our household. Here are the threads....
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=210351
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=220223
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=228429
That should give you a history of just how turbulent life has been in our household and honestly I could use your opinion as to whether Kait has shown signs of Bipolarity or is it just defiance and oppositional behavior?? With Erin and her cutting and suicidal history it was easier....with Kait it is so much more difficult and unless she crashes I will never really know, will I?? All I know is that when she lived with my brother for a year he told me that something was wrong and he was quite concerned as we have been about her.
Just got a call from my mom...my SIL informed her that my brothers BP dropped to 40/30 and he is not putting out any urine and is on the way to the hospital via ambulance. Please, pray for him and for our family that we can get through this.
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
I feel empowered and just got off the phone with the Director of Parent Resources at the college and she spent quite sometime with me. I feel empowered and I shared alot with her and as I did she told me numerous times that I seem to be handling the situation quite well and have thought out what is best for Kait very well. She advised me that if Kait were to return part of the conditions should be that she sign what is called a Buckley Ammendment Waiver...there are 3 in all and she told me we should insist that Kait sign all three that would allow us the right to be informed of any conduct, Academic or Health problems that may occur while she is at college. She also told me that since we are funding Kait we have every right to spell out our expectations and conditions of our doing so. She advised me to contact the Head RA of her dorm and inform him of the situation as well and tell him that we expect to hear of any problems should they arise within the dorm. She also told me that Kait should be capable of pulling a 3.2 cummulative average and that the 2.61 that she got last semester should be unacceptable. That part of our expectations would be for her to pass the Food and Sanitation exam that she is retaking from last semester and that this semester she get a 3.2 or she will not return the following semester funded by us. That way she will not be able to party and drink as she has been doing or will want to do. I also was reassurred that IF we were to have to take her out that we wouldn't lose our money and that she would help us recup almost all of it if need be. I was amazed by that. This woman sounded like an angel....she asked me several times throughout our conversation to keep her in the loop with how things go and how she may further assist us.
So I feel that Kait is going to see that we are serious, that even though she cannot be babysat every step of the way that if she doesn't do her end of things we have no intentions of doing our end of things. We are placing conditions, and reasonable ones on our further funding her education. And she will also know that if she has to come home that she will be earning her keep and have to get to and from college via bus until we are assurred that she is responsible enough to drive a car again
Tsohl ~ You seem to have pinpointed Kait to a T....she has been just as strong willed and defiant like this since she was 14 years old. I have a few threads that describe what we went through with her (they are long ones;) ) and if you have an opportunity I would love if you could take a peek at them because at the time I didn't know what was going on but since it has continued I am still concerned that Kait may be Bipolar as well. The thing is at the time I didn't know any better....she has never been suicidal but she has been quite defiant and manic....always bored unless she was on the go and several times running away into the cold dark night without a coat or shoes on. She never liked our rules even though they were the same as her friends....we were terrible parents and she wanted to live anywhere but with us. She wanted to make her own rules and live her own way without any boundaries. And if she didn't get her way she would make it so that it would be her way. She was a tornadoe and caused much turmoil within our household. Here are the threads....
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=210351
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=220223
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=228429
That should give you a history of just how turbulent life has been in our household and honestly I could use your opinion as to whether Kait has shown signs of Bipolarity or is it just defiance and oppositional behavior?? With Erin and her cutting and suicidal history it was easier....with Kait it is so much more difficult and unless she crashes I will never really know, will I?? All I know is that when she lived with my brother for a year he told me that something was wrong and he was quite concerned as we have been about her.
Just got a call from my mom...my SIL informed her that my brothers BP dropped to 40/30 and he is not putting out any urine and is on the way to the hospital via ambulance. Please, pray for him and for our family that we can get through this.
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
01-03-2007, 06:44 PM
Goody, I am so sorry to hear about your brother and will send prayers his way.
I think you had a wonderful response to your inquiries at Kait's college, and that should go a long way to making you feel like you will have a workable plan when she goes back. Her college is very different from my son's and it is going to help you out immensely.
I will read through some of your older posts about Kait and get back to you later. Keep us posted about your brother. best, Tsohl
I think you had a wonderful response to your inquiries at Kait's college, and that should go a long way to making you feel like you will have a workable plan when she goes back. Her college is very different from my son's and it is going to help you out immensely.
I will read through some of your older posts about Kait and get back to you later. Keep us posted about your brother. best, Tsohl
langlee
01-03-2007, 08:58 PM
Goody-
Your brother is in my prayers and you are in my heart. Please let us know how he's doing.
Love,
Hope
Your brother is in my prayers and you are in my heart. Please let us know how he's doing.
Love,
Hope
goody2shuz
01-04-2007, 12:11 AM
Thanks Everyone for your love and prayers. My brother, thank God, is okay. They were able to get his blood pressure up again, he is admitted and was seen by an endocrinologist, nephrologist and cardiologist. Seems that he was in the beginning phases of acute kidney failure but they think they caught it early enough and will try to figure out exactly what is causing it. Seems that the low blood pressure worstens it so it could be one of his meds doing it....he is on so many. I am relieved that they were able to bring his blood pressure back up and that after they gave him some fluids by IV that he is now producing urine. So for now things are okay....I just pray that his doctors will soon consult with a doctor who specializes in what he has that I found in Tennesee. My mom was able to talk to the head of the center and he agreed to talk to my brother's doctor so hopefully by their putting their heads together they will come up with something that will stop the progression of this terrible thing.
Anyway....the more I think about what we came up with for Kait the more I like it. Of course when we presented it to her she hated it and got all full of how we are expecting too much of her and that nobody elses parents do this to them and that all her friends are drinking and doing worse than her blah, blah, blah. I told her that we have heard the same tune for years and to us she is not everybody else and that we have real concerns for her.....that not everybodyd else has a strong family history of drug/alcohol addictions and not everybody elses parents fund their college. We told her it was time for her to do her part and that there really wasn't too much negotiation because our expectations were more than reasonable and if she didn't like them she could always be out on her own and pay her own way. All we wanted was for her to get decent grades to maintain her scholarship and if she wasn't partying or had no problems with alcohol she would be able to do so. She told us that a boy she likes had kidney problems and couldn't drink and now that it was better he drank....I told her that if he was smart and wanted to keep his kidneys healthy that he wouldn't but that was really something his parents needed to worry about and that at this point in time we were just concerned about her and her decisions in life and her well being and future. And that ultimately it should be her that was concerned about it but so long as we were paying for college we were going to do our best to make sure that she got on the right track. She left the room not too pleased but later on came down and vacuumed for me and made banana bread to bring to our dinner tonight at our neighbor's.
Tomorrow is another day....and hopefully it will be quieter for us. I hope all is well with everybody else and thanks again for all your help, wonderful thoughts, support and prayers. It is so nice to know that all of you are here to make it just a little bit easier and to remind me that we are never alone during these difficult moments in life.
((((HUGS)))) to all the angels here on this board ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Anyway....the more I think about what we came up with for Kait the more I like it. Of course when we presented it to her she hated it and got all full of how we are expecting too much of her and that nobody elses parents do this to them and that all her friends are drinking and doing worse than her blah, blah, blah. I told her that we have heard the same tune for years and to us she is not everybody else and that we have real concerns for her.....that not everybodyd else has a strong family history of drug/alcohol addictions and not everybody elses parents fund their college. We told her it was time for her to do her part and that there really wasn't too much negotiation because our expectations were more than reasonable and if she didn't like them she could always be out on her own and pay her own way. All we wanted was for her to get decent grades to maintain her scholarship and if she wasn't partying or had no problems with alcohol she would be able to do so. She told us that a boy she likes had kidney problems and couldn't drink and now that it was better he drank....I told her that if he was smart and wanted to keep his kidneys healthy that he wouldn't but that was really something his parents needed to worry about and that at this point in time we were just concerned about her and her decisions in life and her well being and future. And that ultimately it should be her that was concerned about it but so long as we were paying for college we were going to do our best to make sure that she got on the right track. She left the room not too pleased but later on came down and vacuumed for me and made banana bread to bring to our dinner tonight at our neighbor's.
Tomorrow is another day....and hopefully it will be quieter for us. I hope all is well with everybody else and thanks again for all your help, wonderful thoughts, support and prayers. It is so nice to know that all of you are here to make it just a little bit easier and to remind me that we are never alone during these difficult moments in life.
((((HUGS)))) to all the angels here on this board ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
01-04-2007, 12:47 AM
Good news, Goody!!
I am relieved to hear your brother passed the crisis. How far away is he from you and how old is he? I do better praying for someone when I know a little bit more about them.
I'm just curious how strict you were with Kait through junior high and high school? Were you a parent who kind of micro-managed all aspects of Kait's life or did she have some independence?
I think your plan is a good one, and again, I am so amazed there is a college on the East Coast that is willing to help you out with something that is basically what she chooses to do in her free time!! Is this a private college?
My daughter works in the Admissions office of her college in Vermont. We went out for lunch today and I was subtly asking her some questions. She said freshmen in particular will drink to the point of passing out. I inquired what it took to make them change their behavior and she said they usually flunk out or otherwise decide not to return to school. Otherwise, grades serve as a "wake-up" call and they learn to regulate their partying. She also thinks college should be 5 years because it takes at least one year to figure out what's going on and to learn how to function to get the most out of it.
Did I mention she's graduating soon? (thus, the "wisdom")
Get a good night's sleep. Tomorrow is another day!
Best,
Tsohl
I am relieved to hear your brother passed the crisis. How far away is he from you and how old is he? I do better praying for someone when I know a little bit more about them.
I'm just curious how strict you were with Kait through junior high and high school? Were you a parent who kind of micro-managed all aspects of Kait's life or did she have some independence?
I think your plan is a good one, and again, I am so amazed there is a college on the East Coast that is willing to help you out with something that is basically what she chooses to do in her free time!! Is this a private college?
My daughter works in the Admissions office of her college in Vermont. We went out for lunch today and I was subtly asking her some questions. She said freshmen in particular will drink to the point of passing out. I inquired what it took to make them change their behavior and she said they usually flunk out or otherwise decide not to return to school. Otherwise, grades serve as a "wake-up" call and they learn to regulate their partying. She also thinks college should be 5 years because it takes at least one year to figure out what's going on and to learn how to function to get the most out of it.
Did I mention she's graduating soon? (thus, the "wisdom")
Get a good night's sleep. Tomorrow is another day!
Best,
Tsohl
goody2shuz
01-04-2007, 02:32 PM
Thanks again everybody...yes it is yet another day. And thank God we are yet through another crisis.
Tsohl to answer your questions....I am about a 4 hour driving distance from my brother's sometimes more depending on traffic. That is what I find to be most frustrating. I had my bags packed to be ready in an instant but find it most frustrating being so far away since I would like to be more readily available to him and his family to help out. My brother is only 43 years old, my other brother thank God recently moved and is only an hour away....my parents are more like 2 1/2 hours. So my other brother and his wife joined my SIL at the hospital yesterday and my parents are now visiting him. Even though he is out of this crisis it seems that everytime he is hospitalized his condition further deteriorates which is the sad thing. I am hoping that with the consultation we have set up between his doctor and a specialist that I had found that we can figure out a way to at least keep this from progressing OR perhaps reverse some of what has occurred.
Anyway...I know that I cannot leave home when there is so much to deal with on my homefront...since my brother is now stabilized I will stay put. When things calm down I would like to perhaps fly down once in a while to help my brother and his family out but for now I feel I cannot do that.
I have more concerns regarding both of my daughters....seems that they are both drowning and I don't know who to save first. I am QUITE concerned about Erin's recent behaviors....of the drinking she did on Christmas Eve that left her vommitting...is it as she says only a little bit or more?? And Kait claims that she helped her through that night...Kait won't step one foot near anybody vomitting and when Erin had fallen asleep forgetting to take her meds I asked Kait to give them and knowing that she had done so knowing that Erin had been drinking really bothers me. and Erin knowing that she shouldn't drink while taking the meds and taking them bothers me too. And Erin playing this passing out game and claiming that she doesn't like drinking and then packing up rum and bringing it to her friend's house on New Year's Eve....it all bothers me. Erin crying how concerned she is about Kait's drinking and using weed and then going on to drink herself bothers me too.
We see the pdoc tomorrow....the one who started Erin on AD's and despite my concerns continued them. I am not happy about going to him but it is the only appointment I could get while we are on the waiting list for the pdoc I want to follow her. So how much do I tell this pdoc?? If I tell him about Erin's drinking and passing out game he may not perscribe the meds. I would be extremely upset if we were taken off of them because we have come so far with her treatment of Bipolar. Erin seems to still be quite impulsive...her self injury and suicidal thoughts have lessened as well as her depression and mania so we are in a good place with all of that and I certainly do not wish to mess that up. Do I tell this pdoc who doesn't really hold my confidence?? In fact my intentions are to tell him how I need for him to redeem himself because of how he didn't take my concerns seriously enough in the first place without putting him on the defense.
As far as Kait....she had very similar rules and guidelines as her friends did while in Junior High and High School. We basically didn't want her spending time at anyone's house where a parent wasn't home, her curfew on weekends was 10-11pm and later if circumstances were necessary,....in her Senior year of High School it was 12-12:30am. We had chores at home to be done...very basic like doing laundry and keeping up with her room and bathroom. She was able to work a job at 14 so long as she could handle it with her grades....we were extremely reasonable parents who strived to guide her towards independence and allowing her to see that she needed some ownership towards certain priveleges. While her friends were handed brand new cars we encouraged her to save for one and told her that she would have to also be able to afford the gas and insurance with some assistance from us but the way we saw it, having a car was a responsibility and would be taken on when she needed it or earned it. She seemed to resent the fact that others were given brand new SUV's by their parents or sports cars with the insurance all paid etc. We told her that we were not the type to keep up with the Jone's and that our intentions were to teach her as her parents that things in life are earned and worked for and not just handed over. Kait often feel she is owed everything in life....she has been a great worker but claims that she has had to work for so that she can have the things that she has wanted but we wouldn't give her. She is angry and unhappy....this Christmas, for example, she had about 6 or 7 gifts....they added up to alot and before she even opened them up she was upset. I told her that we had spent equally on her and Erin and what she had before her cost alot of money. By the time she opened them up I think that she came to that realization but her initial reaction really bothered me.
I think that Kait is going to have to be out on her own before she will realize her problems and how distorted her thinking is. IN her eyes her parents haven't done enough for her and the only way that she will ever know is when we no longer do anything for her. It is sad....but Kait is in a constant mission mode of having to get what she needs and wants at any given moment and doing whatever she must to get it that way even to the extent of breaking the law. When I told her how upsetting it is that she breaks into our house without our permission putting us at risk to being sued....she claims that the house is HERS and she should be able to do as she pleases with it. We told her that it is not HERS unless she pays for it and the insurance, mortgage, taxes, fuel, and electric. I am worried, very worried about Kait. Even with all that we have laid out before her as our expectations to fund her she sees college as a ticket to party. When I told her that I intended to speak to her Residential Director she told me to go right ahead because he works for the club that she gets into free and supplies her and her friends free drinks. I find that hard to believe but I intend to tell him that Kait has informed us of this and that we are almost certain that she is lying because a Residential Director has a responsibility to keep students safe. I will not threaten him but make him aware that Kait has told me this so that he can measure how real her problems may be and if he is doing this know that his position as RD may be at risk.
The college is semiprivate and a great college. As a matter of fact when we were at dinner last night with our neighbors they told Kait that graduating from that college will guarantee her a job....he is a professor and knows many who have graduated and that it is an honor to go there. Hopefully Kait will come to that realization and change her ways but somehow I don't hold out much hope....she seems way too immature in her thinking and is only living for the moment. In fact she has asked me if she can go with a friend to Atlantic City to celebrate his 21st birthday....that his mom is a manager of Hyatt hotels and plans on getting him a room. I was impressed that she even asked but I told her that she was underage for gambling even though he would be of age and she would get in alot of trouble and shouldn't be there.....that if they were just going to celebrate at a restaurant that would be different but this sounded like trouble to me. What else can I do??? Hubby and I decided not to give her any more money....that if she needed certain things to let us know and we would mail them out to her but no more money for her to put towards partying....that we were not going to subsidize or enable her drinking/clubbing that she shouldn't do in the first place....that we sent her to college to pursue a career and a good future for herself. We encouraged her to make friends who would help her to get there....she told us she had no intention of changing her friends and we told her that if she could do what she needed to do without getting into trouble and stay in college that would be fine but that we were genuinely concerned with the amount of partying she was doing and that she should be too if she wanted to have a good future.
So that is where we are at. I know and am preparing myself for it not being over but the way I see it hubby and I are doing the best that we can....the rest really at this point is all up to Kait.
Hope everybody else is doing okay. As always....this is a great place to come knowing that you are all here even if it is just to lend an ear. But it is always more than that when you wonderful gals are ready to roll up your sleeves and tackle anything that comes our way. I consider myslef blessed.
((((HUGS))))) and thanks for all that you are to me ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Tsohl to answer your questions....I am about a 4 hour driving distance from my brother's sometimes more depending on traffic. That is what I find to be most frustrating. I had my bags packed to be ready in an instant but find it most frustrating being so far away since I would like to be more readily available to him and his family to help out. My brother is only 43 years old, my other brother thank God recently moved and is only an hour away....my parents are more like 2 1/2 hours. So my other brother and his wife joined my SIL at the hospital yesterday and my parents are now visiting him. Even though he is out of this crisis it seems that everytime he is hospitalized his condition further deteriorates which is the sad thing. I am hoping that with the consultation we have set up between his doctor and a specialist that I had found that we can figure out a way to at least keep this from progressing OR perhaps reverse some of what has occurred.
Anyway...I know that I cannot leave home when there is so much to deal with on my homefront...since my brother is now stabilized I will stay put. When things calm down I would like to perhaps fly down once in a while to help my brother and his family out but for now I feel I cannot do that.
I have more concerns regarding both of my daughters....seems that they are both drowning and I don't know who to save first. I am QUITE concerned about Erin's recent behaviors....of the drinking she did on Christmas Eve that left her vommitting...is it as she says only a little bit or more?? And Kait claims that she helped her through that night...Kait won't step one foot near anybody vomitting and when Erin had fallen asleep forgetting to take her meds I asked Kait to give them and knowing that she had done so knowing that Erin had been drinking really bothers me. and Erin knowing that she shouldn't drink while taking the meds and taking them bothers me too. And Erin playing this passing out game and claiming that she doesn't like drinking and then packing up rum and bringing it to her friend's house on New Year's Eve....it all bothers me. Erin crying how concerned she is about Kait's drinking and using weed and then going on to drink herself bothers me too.
We see the pdoc tomorrow....the one who started Erin on AD's and despite my concerns continued them. I am not happy about going to him but it is the only appointment I could get while we are on the waiting list for the pdoc I want to follow her. So how much do I tell this pdoc?? If I tell him about Erin's drinking and passing out game he may not perscribe the meds. I would be extremely upset if we were taken off of them because we have come so far with her treatment of Bipolar. Erin seems to still be quite impulsive...her self injury and suicidal thoughts have lessened as well as her depression and mania so we are in a good place with all of that and I certainly do not wish to mess that up. Do I tell this pdoc who doesn't really hold my confidence?? In fact my intentions are to tell him how I need for him to redeem himself because of how he didn't take my concerns seriously enough in the first place without putting him on the defense.
As far as Kait....she had very similar rules and guidelines as her friends did while in Junior High and High School. We basically didn't want her spending time at anyone's house where a parent wasn't home, her curfew on weekends was 10-11pm and later if circumstances were necessary,....in her Senior year of High School it was 12-12:30am. We had chores at home to be done...very basic like doing laundry and keeping up with her room and bathroom. She was able to work a job at 14 so long as she could handle it with her grades....we were extremely reasonable parents who strived to guide her towards independence and allowing her to see that she needed some ownership towards certain priveleges. While her friends were handed brand new cars we encouraged her to save for one and told her that she would have to also be able to afford the gas and insurance with some assistance from us but the way we saw it, having a car was a responsibility and would be taken on when she needed it or earned it. She seemed to resent the fact that others were given brand new SUV's by their parents or sports cars with the insurance all paid etc. We told her that we were not the type to keep up with the Jone's and that our intentions were to teach her as her parents that things in life are earned and worked for and not just handed over. Kait often feel she is owed everything in life....she has been a great worker but claims that she has had to work for so that she can have the things that she has wanted but we wouldn't give her. She is angry and unhappy....this Christmas, for example, she had about 6 or 7 gifts....they added up to alot and before she even opened them up she was upset. I told her that we had spent equally on her and Erin and what she had before her cost alot of money. By the time she opened them up I think that she came to that realization but her initial reaction really bothered me.
I think that Kait is going to have to be out on her own before she will realize her problems and how distorted her thinking is. IN her eyes her parents haven't done enough for her and the only way that she will ever know is when we no longer do anything for her. It is sad....but Kait is in a constant mission mode of having to get what she needs and wants at any given moment and doing whatever she must to get it that way even to the extent of breaking the law. When I told her how upsetting it is that she breaks into our house without our permission putting us at risk to being sued....she claims that the house is HERS and she should be able to do as she pleases with it. We told her that it is not HERS unless she pays for it and the insurance, mortgage, taxes, fuel, and electric. I am worried, very worried about Kait. Even with all that we have laid out before her as our expectations to fund her she sees college as a ticket to party. When I told her that I intended to speak to her Residential Director she told me to go right ahead because he works for the club that she gets into free and supplies her and her friends free drinks. I find that hard to believe but I intend to tell him that Kait has informed us of this and that we are almost certain that she is lying because a Residential Director has a responsibility to keep students safe. I will not threaten him but make him aware that Kait has told me this so that he can measure how real her problems may be and if he is doing this know that his position as RD may be at risk.
The college is semiprivate and a great college. As a matter of fact when we were at dinner last night with our neighbors they told Kait that graduating from that college will guarantee her a job....he is a professor and knows many who have graduated and that it is an honor to go there. Hopefully Kait will come to that realization and change her ways but somehow I don't hold out much hope....she seems way too immature in her thinking and is only living for the moment. In fact she has asked me if she can go with a friend to Atlantic City to celebrate his 21st birthday....that his mom is a manager of Hyatt hotels and plans on getting him a room. I was impressed that she even asked but I told her that she was underage for gambling even though he would be of age and she would get in alot of trouble and shouldn't be there.....that if they were just going to celebrate at a restaurant that would be different but this sounded like trouble to me. What else can I do??? Hubby and I decided not to give her any more money....that if she needed certain things to let us know and we would mail them out to her but no more money for her to put towards partying....that we were not going to subsidize or enable her drinking/clubbing that she shouldn't do in the first place....that we sent her to college to pursue a career and a good future for herself. We encouraged her to make friends who would help her to get there....she told us she had no intention of changing her friends and we told her that if she could do what she needed to do without getting into trouble and stay in college that would be fine but that we were genuinely concerned with the amount of partying she was doing and that she should be too if she wanted to have a good future.
So that is where we are at. I know and am preparing myself for it not being over but the way I see it hubby and I are doing the best that we can....the rest really at this point is all up to Kait.
Hope everybody else is doing okay. As always....this is a great place to come knowing that you are all here even if it is just to lend an ear. But it is always more than that when you wonderful gals are ready to roll up your sleeves and tackle anything that comes our way. I consider myslef blessed.
((((HUGS))))) and thanks for all that you are to me ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
gav_73
01-04-2007, 04:21 PM
Hi Goody,
I got your message on the last post and came to offer any help I can. You sound so overwhelmed, and I wish I could do more for you, give you some fool-proof answers on how to deal with the issues that are troubling you. I can share some of my experiences with hopes that your daughters may be able to relate with me as a teenager and as a bipolar. I will start from the beginning and add to it periodically, as this may take a while.
When I was a kid, I was extremely sheltered, totally dependent on my parents and looked up to them as if they were all I needed in the world. Then, suddenly, my mom up and left us and my dad fell apart. My whole world up to that point in my eyes then had been a facade, and I resented both of them for taking away that security I once felt. That on top of some severe emotional problems exhibited around 8 or 9 led me down a path of self destruction that took me almost 20 years to turn around. I left home at 16 years old after moving from one house to the next, and thought I knew everything. I really did. I even still think sometimes that I couldn't have survived the chaotic environment my parents had subjected me to for so many years. I felt that no one understood me, that I was completely different than they were, than anyone was in my family. In fact, I was different. Looking back, not only was I bipolar, I was the only creative, artistic one in my family. I was in gifted classes, I took private art lessons and was quite accomplished even in fifth grade. I wrote poetry, was an avid reader of books, I talked my way out of everything because I could. I was a rebel without a cause and thought I knew everything, but those around me had convinced me I was special, and I thought I was!
Therefore, when I didn't think that I could stand my parents any longer, I left without a second thought. I quit school and lived in one dorm, apartment, house, wherever there was room. I started using drugs and alcohol like I was invincable, like nothing would harm me because I was smarter and wiser than anyone else. I hung around kids and young adults that had something to offer me, whether it be a party, drugs, a place to stay. It didn't matter, as long as I was free. On the other hand, I never, ever asked my family for anything. But I felt that they owed me bigtime. They weren't paying for my room and board, my food, my clothes, my college, so when I needed something, I expected them to give it to me. But I never really did, unless I was homeless and starving. I was very proud and wouldn't let my dependence on them divert me from my mission. I lived like this for several years, moving by myself from Atlanta, New Orleans, New York, to the Carolinas, Florida, and other places looking for myself and never finding it.
When I was 18, I got pregnant and decided to give the baby up for adoption. In the interim, I got married to some guy I barely knew and left him when it was time to have the baby. At 6 months, I went into labor and had her 3 months early. Her adoptive parents still adopted her even though problems were inevitable. Today, she is 14 and has cerebral palsy. After she was taken away, I went on a binge. I was totally depressed and couldn't bring myself out of it. I thought the only thing that could make me feel better would be to have another baby (I know, horrible, huh?) I got pregnant again after only 9 weeks of giving her up and had another little girl. They are 11 months apart. She, too, was premature, but the doctors had an idea what was wrong with me and she was spared any disabilities. I also took better care of myself. All this time, I refused any help from anyone. I took her home and didn't know what in the heck I was doing. I cried everyday and thought I was going to die. Turns out, I had severe post-partum depression (after both births), which is common in bipolars. However, I didn't know I was bipolar.
All this time, I had tried to commit suicide several times when drinking. I ended up in several mental institutions voluntarily. After the first one, I knew they wouldn't really help me, but I would commit myself when I just needed a break from life. I had insurance because I was working at a casino, so I took advantage of it when I needed it. But the meds they would put me on never did a thing. I thought I was a hopeless case.
When my daughter was 3, I dropped her off at her dad's house one night so I could go out. I went to a bar and hung out with the cute bartender that I had befriended. We decided to go bar hopping when he got off, and we did. We had a great time, but we were getting pretty drunk. We decided to take a ride in my new car, and since we were drinking, I drove us out to the country so we could ride around and listen to music. Well, we hit a construction site and ended up in an accident. The car flipped 7 times and he was ejected and killed. I ended up with a broken neck and a charge of vehicular homicide, facing 25 years in prison. This was the real crossroads in my life, as you can imagine. Up to this point, my erratic behavior had only hurt me. Now I stood accused of murdering my friend. I was devastated as you can imagine, as I always considered myself a kind and loving human being, even if I wasn't kind to myself.
I ended up doing a year in prison, where I found out I had Hepatitis C. When I got out, I found out that I was actually very sick from it, and already had signs of liver damage. I was saturated with the virus. The doctors had suspected that I got it from my tattoos, which I got when I was 16 when I moved out. Back then, AIDS was only beginning to come to public awareness. Hepatitis was not an issue. I had never even heard of it. Anyway, since I had not been a IV drug user and that Hep C isn't spread easily through sex, the doctors said tattoos were most likely the culprit. Even though they would change the needles, they didn't often change the ink back then.
My parents really came through for me when I was incarcerated, however, and I was touched. They took great care of my little girl and brought her to see me regularly, and it meant a lot to her, because we were very close. When I got out, I was a wreck as you can imagine. I was a murderer, I was sick from some disease. I didn't take my daughter away from my parents because I was as much an emotional wreck as ever. I ended up marrying some idiot loser again and knew it was not a place or environment for my daughter to be. I know this all sounds crazy (and you still don't know the extent of it), but I was still bipolar, I just didn't know it. And has good as my intentions may have been, I was doomed to self-medicate. Luckily, I never got caught drinking while I was on probation. I did, however, enroll in a university and started college. But I was very serious about going and wanted to do well. I knew I could. I kept waiting tables throughout college, and started therapy for my Hep C, which put me into remission and stopped any damage. It was very difficult, as it is just like being on chemo. My hair started falling out and I felt like I could barely get out of bed. But I kept working and going to school throughout and made it through. It was worth it, and I was determined to get through it. And I did.
Message is too long to post, so I will continue below...
I got your message on the last post and came to offer any help I can. You sound so overwhelmed, and I wish I could do more for you, give you some fool-proof answers on how to deal with the issues that are troubling you. I can share some of my experiences with hopes that your daughters may be able to relate with me as a teenager and as a bipolar. I will start from the beginning and add to it periodically, as this may take a while.
When I was a kid, I was extremely sheltered, totally dependent on my parents and looked up to them as if they were all I needed in the world. Then, suddenly, my mom up and left us and my dad fell apart. My whole world up to that point in my eyes then had been a facade, and I resented both of them for taking away that security I once felt. That on top of some severe emotional problems exhibited around 8 or 9 led me down a path of self destruction that took me almost 20 years to turn around. I left home at 16 years old after moving from one house to the next, and thought I knew everything. I really did. I even still think sometimes that I couldn't have survived the chaotic environment my parents had subjected me to for so many years. I felt that no one understood me, that I was completely different than they were, than anyone was in my family. In fact, I was different. Looking back, not only was I bipolar, I was the only creative, artistic one in my family. I was in gifted classes, I took private art lessons and was quite accomplished even in fifth grade. I wrote poetry, was an avid reader of books, I talked my way out of everything because I could. I was a rebel without a cause and thought I knew everything, but those around me had convinced me I was special, and I thought I was!
Therefore, when I didn't think that I could stand my parents any longer, I left without a second thought. I quit school and lived in one dorm, apartment, house, wherever there was room. I started using drugs and alcohol like I was invincable, like nothing would harm me because I was smarter and wiser than anyone else. I hung around kids and young adults that had something to offer me, whether it be a party, drugs, a place to stay. It didn't matter, as long as I was free. On the other hand, I never, ever asked my family for anything. But I felt that they owed me bigtime. They weren't paying for my room and board, my food, my clothes, my college, so when I needed something, I expected them to give it to me. But I never really did, unless I was homeless and starving. I was very proud and wouldn't let my dependence on them divert me from my mission. I lived like this for several years, moving by myself from Atlanta, New Orleans, New York, to the Carolinas, Florida, and other places looking for myself and never finding it.
When I was 18, I got pregnant and decided to give the baby up for adoption. In the interim, I got married to some guy I barely knew and left him when it was time to have the baby. At 6 months, I went into labor and had her 3 months early. Her adoptive parents still adopted her even though problems were inevitable. Today, she is 14 and has cerebral palsy. After she was taken away, I went on a binge. I was totally depressed and couldn't bring myself out of it. I thought the only thing that could make me feel better would be to have another baby (I know, horrible, huh?) I got pregnant again after only 9 weeks of giving her up and had another little girl. They are 11 months apart. She, too, was premature, but the doctors had an idea what was wrong with me and she was spared any disabilities. I also took better care of myself. All this time, I refused any help from anyone. I took her home and didn't know what in the heck I was doing. I cried everyday and thought I was going to die. Turns out, I had severe post-partum depression (after both births), which is common in bipolars. However, I didn't know I was bipolar.
All this time, I had tried to commit suicide several times when drinking. I ended up in several mental institutions voluntarily. After the first one, I knew they wouldn't really help me, but I would commit myself when I just needed a break from life. I had insurance because I was working at a casino, so I took advantage of it when I needed it. But the meds they would put me on never did a thing. I thought I was a hopeless case.
When my daughter was 3, I dropped her off at her dad's house one night so I could go out. I went to a bar and hung out with the cute bartender that I had befriended. We decided to go bar hopping when he got off, and we did. We had a great time, but we were getting pretty drunk. We decided to take a ride in my new car, and since we were drinking, I drove us out to the country so we could ride around and listen to music. Well, we hit a construction site and ended up in an accident. The car flipped 7 times and he was ejected and killed. I ended up with a broken neck and a charge of vehicular homicide, facing 25 years in prison. This was the real crossroads in my life, as you can imagine. Up to this point, my erratic behavior had only hurt me. Now I stood accused of murdering my friend. I was devastated as you can imagine, as I always considered myself a kind and loving human being, even if I wasn't kind to myself.
I ended up doing a year in prison, where I found out I had Hepatitis C. When I got out, I found out that I was actually very sick from it, and already had signs of liver damage. I was saturated with the virus. The doctors had suspected that I got it from my tattoos, which I got when I was 16 when I moved out. Back then, AIDS was only beginning to come to public awareness. Hepatitis was not an issue. I had never even heard of it. Anyway, since I had not been a IV drug user and that Hep C isn't spread easily through sex, the doctors said tattoos were most likely the culprit. Even though they would change the needles, they didn't often change the ink back then.
My parents really came through for me when I was incarcerated, however, and I was touched. They took great care of my little girl and brought her to see me regularly, and it meant a lot to her, because we were very close. When I got out, I was a wreck as you can imagine. I was a murderer, I was sick from some disease. I didn't take my daughter away from my parents because I was as much an emotional wreck as ever. I ended up marrying some idiot loser again and knew it was not a place or environment for my daughter to be. I know this all sounds crazy (and you still don't know the extent of it), but I was still bipolar, I just didn't know it. And has good as my intentions may have been, I was doomed to self-medicate. Luckily, I never got caught drinking while I was on probation. I did, however, enroll in a university and started college. But I was very serious about going and wanted to do well. I knew I could. I kept waiting tables throughout college, and started therapy for my Hep C, which put me into remission and stopped any damage. It was very difficult, as it is just like being on chemo. My hair started falling out and I felt like I could barely get out of bed. But I kept working and going to school throughout and made it through. It was worth it, and I was determined to get through it. And I did.
Message is too long to post, so I will continue below...
gav_73
01-04-2007, 04:22 PM
I finally succeeded in getting off probation, left that loser guy after only 1 year of being together, and ended up transferring to another school on scholarship. I still had bipolar, I was still drinking and self-medicating, but I was through with the drugs and my choice of friends began to change as I felt better about who I was. Also, the type of man I was attracted to also changed dramatically. I expected more from them, I expected them to be educated, I expected them to treat me well. I didn't feel like I was stong enough to succeed on my own because I had always proven I would screw it up. Now I realize that I was trying to control the bipolar by myself and knew that whatever was wrong with me, that I couldn't deal with it on my own. My whole life I had felt like something was wrong with me. That indeed I was special, but special in a way that made me feel isolated, alone, misunderstood and defiant. I was impulsive, which is obvious, lived life on the edge, and didn't care what happended until it happened. Until my accident, nothing had except that I was homeless, on drugs, with no direction in life. As a teenager and young adult, I could handle that. As I grew older with a child depending on me to straighten up, I realized I couldn't. It mattered now that I get a handle on things. But with the bipolar, I didn't know that I really couldn't.
But I did the best I could. I ended up graduating college with a 3.8 and finding a man who was truly worthy of my love. He was a kind and gentle man with goals and aspirations. He didn't drink, never did drugs, and loved me unconditionally. If I had met him at any other point in my life, I wouldn't have even been attracted to him. He accepted me, Hepatitis and all. We got married right after graduation and both entered graduate school, both getting accepted to the best universities for our programs in the nation. I quit drinking completely, quit smoking, and started to lose weight. Then, I hit a BIG depression. Since I had quit all drugs and alcohol, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. I knew I was stressed out, but as you can see, I was plenty used to that. I had previously blamed all of my problems on my abuse of drugs and alcohol, now I was really confused. I went to the psychiatrist and FINALLY got diagnosed. She took one look at my history and diagnosed me in about 10 minutes.
Since being on meds, I finally feel like a normal person with a future. It has been a long time coming, but I have made it to the place I longed to be. It took 20 years of hell, a person dying, two children and three marriages before I was 32, but I am finally here with two college degrees and ready to make a fresh start. There are more obtacles to come, but I can tell you that there is not one thing I don't think I can do now that I have the help I so desperately needed for so long.
Well, I will end here. That is the foundation of my life, my experiences with being a bipolar teen and adult, and how I found my way. I hope that my experiences can help some of you understand somewhat what it has been like. I am really tearing up as I write this, because I truly want others to understand what can happen when a kid doesn't get the help and medication they need as a bipolar. I know a lot of people on here talk about an all-natural "cure" to bipolar, but I am here to say that for me, it never would have worked in a million years. I have always taken fish oil and vitamins, particularly because it was sometimes the only nutrition I got. But I still had all the problems you've read about.
It was only with the help of my psychiatrist and the support from those who loved me that I've made it this far. And only by the skin of my teeth that I'm still alive today to tell you about my experiences. It's not pretty, I know, but I have been brutally honest about everything, and hope that it will help parents deal with their bipolar teens and what can happen if they aren't medicated. I also want you to know that seeing you on here looking for help and advice means a lot to me, because my parents never had these message boards to look to for advice (not that I even know they would have). I think your love and support of your children will allow them to avoid these horrible things. So, keep up the good work, and feel free to ask anything you like. I've let it all out, so there's nothing to hide now. :)
Goody, I know you wanted some input for your daughter Kait, and I will be happy to share some of my opinions or advice about your situation. I know this long story is not exactly you were looking for when posting on the other thread, but I felt I needed to start off with my whole story to give you some background of my life. I think this is a good starting point for any discussion you may want to start, just so you can know where I've been and what my life has been like. I can relate to what both of your daughters are going through, even Kait. Even if she's not bipolar, I can at least relate to her impulsive and defiant behavior as a teenager and young adult. Believe me, I was the same way, only I didn't listen one bit because I wasn't under anyone's control. I wish I had been. So, please, ask away and I will try to help in any way I can.
But I did the best I could. I ended up graduating college with a 3.8 and finding a man who was truly worthy of my love. He was a kind and gentle man with goals and aspirations. He didn't drink, never did drugs, and loved me unconditionally. If I had met him at any other point in my life, I wouldn't have even been attracted to him. He accepted me, Hepatitis and all. We got married right after graduation and both entered graduate school, both getting accepted to the best universities for our programs in the nation. I quit drinking completely, quit smoking, and started to lose weight. Then, I hit a BIG depression. Since I had quit all drugs and alcohol, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. I knew I was stressed out, but as you can see, I was plenty used to that. I had previously blamed all of my problems on my abuse of drugs and alcohol, now I was really confused. I went to the psychiatrist and FINALLY got diagnosed. She took one look at my history and diagnosed me in about 10 minutes.
Since being on meds, I finally feel like a normal person with a future. It has been a long time coming, but I have made it to the place I longed to be. It took 20 years of hell, a person dying, two children and three marriages before I was 32, but I am finally here with two college degrees and ready to make a fresh start. There are more obtacles to come, but I can tell you that there is not one thing I don't think I can do now that I have the help I so desperately needed for so long.
Well, I will end here. That is the foundation of my life, my experiences with being a bipolar teen and adult, and how I found my way. I hope that my experiences can help some of you understand somewhat what it has been like. I am really tearing up as I write this, because I truly want others to understand what can happen when a kid doesn't get the help and medication they need as a bipolar. I know a lot of people on here talk about an all-natural "cure" to bipolar, but I am here to say that for me, it never would have worked in a million years. I have always taken fish oil and vitamins, particularly because it was sometimes the only nutrition I got. But I still had all the problems you've read about.
It was only with the help of my psychiatrist and the support from those who loved me that I've made it this far. And only by the skin of my teeth that I'm still alive today to tell you about my experiences. It's not pretty, I know, but I have been brutally honest about everything, and hope that it will help parents deal with their bipolar teens and what can happen if they aren't medicated. I also want you to know that seeing you on here looking for help and advice means a lot to me, because my parents never had these message boards to look to for advice (not that I even know they would have). I think your love and support of your children will allow them to avoid these horrible things. So, keep up the good work, and feel free to ask anything you like. I've let it all out, so there's nothing to hide now. :)
Goody, I know you wanted some input for your daughter Kait, and I will be happy to share some of my opinions or advice about your situation. I know this long story is not exactly you were looking for when posting on the other thread, but I felt I needed to start off with my whole story to give you some background of my life. I think this is a good starting point for any discussion you may want to start, just so you can know where I've been and what my life has been like. I can relate to what both of your daughters are going through, even Kait. Even if she's not bipolar, I can at least relate to her impulsive and defiant behavior as a teenager and young adult. Believe me, I was the same way, only I didn't listen one bit because I wasn't under anyone's control. I wish I had been. So, please, ask away and I will try to help in any way I can.
tsohl
01-04-2007, 04:47 PM
Well, let's see...I just took my daughter to the airport, so I'm back to being an empty nester. We've seen so much of our son while the daughter was home, that we agreed we didn't need to have dinner together for awhile! She's going to be in Minneapolis for the next two months for an internship and then she goes back to Vermont for her last semester. Goody ~ my kids are so very different from yours. Actually mine are different from most kids, come to think of it. My daughter is so much her own person. She is very self-directed and has and always has had a strong value system that she lives by. She was never affected by peer pressure. She never drank until she turned 21 and now has a glass of wine every couple months!! I honestly can't recall ever having any major arguments with her. Amazing.
I too would be cautious about saying too much to the pdoc. I would tell him what meds she's on and how much better she's now doing...and hopefully he'll just keep you in a holding pattern for awhile. You're only going to be with him for a short while and you don't want to be starting over with all different meds, etc. The holidays are over. You can keep an eye on Erin to be sure she isn't drinking...and hopefully, she learned her lesson. Have you called the moms of the other girls to let them know what happened? I imagine they would be concerned as well and would be more careful in supervising their own liquor and children. Even though you don't want Erin to know this, I think you'd have to drink quite a lot on a regular basis to have it do any long-lasting damage, and I doubt she actually drank that much. I wouldn't be surprised if Kait is exagerating how much she drank and her role in all of it to make herself look better in your eyes. If I were you I'd get rid of all the liquor in your house, or at least put it in a locked cupboard. It is sad to admit to yourself, but you can't trust either of your girls at the moment.
Next time you post, please tell me what's wrong with your brother, and I also want to hear all about what is special and unique about Kait. Tell me all the good things about her. best, Tsohl
I too would be cautious about saying too much to the pdoc. I would tell him what meds she's on and how much better she's now doing...and hopefully he'll just keep you in a holding pattern for awhile. You're only going to be with him for a short while and you don't want to be starting over with all different meds, etc. The holidays are over. You can keep an eye on Erin to be sure she isn't drinking...and hopefully, she learned her lesson. Have you called the moms of the other girls to let them know what happened? I imagine they would be concerned as well and would be more careful in supervising their own liquor and children. Even though you don't want Erin to know this, I think you'd have to drink quite a lot on a regular basis to have it do any long-lasting damage, and I doubt she actually drank that much. I wouldn't be surprised if Kait is exagerating how much she drank and her role in all of it to make herself look better in your eyes. If I were you I'd get rid of all the liquor in your house, or at least put it in a locked cupboard. It is sad to admit to yourself, but you can't trust either of your girls at the moment.
Next time you post, please tell me what's wrong with your brother, and I also want to hear all about what is special and unique about Kait. Tell me all the good things about her. best, Tsohl
goody2shuz
01-04-2007, 05:21 PM
Gav ~ Thank you, thank you, thank you.....I know that what you posted was not easy and as God would let it be Kait so happened to be right next to me as I was beginning to read it and I had her sit next to me as I read it outloud. I really didn't say anything other than allow her to hear the words you wrote and I KNOW that even if it isn't right now, what you wrote to us here WILL somehow be recalled by Kait somewhere in her future. Your story, as sad and tragical as it sounds is so full of hope and strength and I thank you for opening up to us here so that we as parents can see that there IS hope for our kids and that things will turn around for them hopefully more sooner than later. I cannot even begin to tell you how touched I was by your story....it is truly inspirational and I thank God that He allowed us to meet so that I can continue to hold onto the hope that I so need for my girls right now. IT is truly a gift that your post has given me as well as others here. Thank you for that precious gift, Gav....you are truly a remarkable person and I am honored to know and have met you here on this board.
I need to run some errands and just had to somehow acknowledge your post and let you know that it is truly a gift to have shared in your life. Like I said on the other thread....I am so very proud of you and all that you have done to turn your life around and be here for others who are hoping to do the same. If anything, your story is truly a message to never give up and know that even as bad and horrific as life may seem you have the power to turn it all around.:angel:
Tsohl....I will be back...have yourself a latte and relish the solitude while you can.
(((((HUGS)))))) to all the angels who carry me through the rough patches of life ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
I need to run some errands and just had to somehow acknowledge your post and let you know that it is truly a gift to have shared in your life. Like I said on the other thread....I am so very proud of you and all that you have done to turn your life around and be here for others who are hoping to do the same. If anything, your story is truly a message to never give up and know that even as bad and horrific as life may seem you have the power to turn it all around.:angel:
Tsohl....I will be back...have yourself a latte and relish the solitude while you can.
(((((HUGS)))))) to all the angels who carry me through the rough patches of life ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
01-04-2007, 11:14 PM
Hi ladies ~
I certainly second Goody's comments pertaining to Gav's posts. I too am learning a lot from them. Gav ~ you write very eloquently of what the experience of being bipolar is like, at least from one person's perspective and it is very helpful to all us moms who are struggling to relate to our bipolar kids.
Jules~ you must not assume that all your son's irresponsible, reckless behavior is caused by the fact that he is bipolar. My son would never have jumped from a moving car unless he was so out of his mind on drugs that he had no idea what he was doing, and the one and only time that happened, he checked himself into the psych hospital!
I would encourage you to call your son's pdoc. You may not get very far, but then again, you may! In the one and only conversation we had with one of our son's doctors who called us after he fired our son as a patient, he indicated that he would have been willing to consult with us all along. Of course I hadn't known this at the time!!
I've kind of lost track of what meds your son is now on, but I don't recall any mood stabilizer. Our son is on two as lithium didn't quite do the complete job. When lamictal was added was when he finally started feeling more ordered. I liked what Gav had to say about the feelings of anger and rage. I found that particularly difficult to understand...and it was just that which propelled our son to commit himself. He had a kitten and one night it got scared and peed on him. He flew into such a rage that it scared him sufficiently that he knew his meds weren't working and that he needed to get help ASAP. Of course as soon as he came out of the drug-induced haze, and realized how worthless the inpatient experience was, he demanded to be released. I was at the store shopping for things that I thought he might need for his inpatient experience when he called me to say "come get me!" I thought he'd be in weeks, if not a month. But the pdoc who'd never met him before, reviewed the paperwork, asked him a few questions, made the decision he wasn't going to commit suicide, and signed the release papers. I think he was there about 28 hours altogether. But, the whole experience was the turning point for him. He knew he didn't ever want to end up there again (and it was the "good" psych hospital in the city) and he immediately began the journey that led him to the place where he is today.
I think even well-medicated bipolars are still pretty egocentric. Our son still looks at everything from the inside out, but he is much more sensitive and thoughtful than he used to be. Perhaps part of that is his increasing maturity rather than the "right" meds!
Our son was not living with us while he was going through all his drama so it is hard for me to comment on all the day to day issues you guys all face. Of course he did live here during high school and we were living in the same city after he graduated from college when he had the major problems and the most drug use so I do have some awareness of what was going on with him!
Jules, does your son talk to his friends about seeing a pdoc and about his diagnosis? I'll be eager to hear what the pdoc has to say to you, whether he will listen to your concerns....
Hope, what is going on in your world?
Hugs to all~
Tsohl
I certainly second Goody's comments pertaining to Gav's posts. I too am learning a lot from them. Gav ~ you write very eloquently of what the experience of being bipolar is like, at least from one person's perspective and it is very helpful to all us moms who are struggling to relate to our bipolar kids.
Jules~ you must not assume that all your son's irresponsible, reckless behavior is caused by the fact that he is bipolar. My son would never have jumped from a moving car unless he was so out of his mind on drugs that he had no idea what he was doing, and the one and only time that happened, he checked himself into the psych hospital!
I would encourage you to call your son's pdoc. You may not get very far, but then again, you may! In the one and only conversation we had with one of our son's doctors who called us after he fired our son as a patient, he indicated that he would have been willing to consult with us all along. Of course I hadn't known this at the time!!
I've kind of lost track of what meds your son is now on, but I don't recall any mood stabilizer. Our son is on two as lithium didn't quite do the complete job. When lamictal was added was when he finally started feeling more ordered. I liked what Gav had to say about the feelings of anger and rage. I found that particularly difficult to understand...and it was just that which propelled our son to commit himself. He had a kitten and one night it got scared and peed on him. He flew into such a rage that it scared him sufficiently that he knew his meds weren't working and that he needed to get help ASAP. Of course as soon as he came out of the drug-induced haze, and realized how worthless the inpatient experience was, he demanded to be released. I was at the store shopping for things that I thought he might need for his inpatient experience when he called me to say "come get me!" I thought he'd be in weeks, if not a month. But the pdoc who'd never met him before, reviewed the paperwork, asked him a few questions, made the decision he wasn't going to commit suicide, and signed the release papers. I think he was there about 28 hours altogether. But, the whole experience was the turning point for him. He knew he didn't ever want to end up there again (and it was the "good" psych hospital in the city) and he immediately began the journey that led him to the place where he is today.
I think even well-medicated bipolars are still pretty egocentric. Our son still looks at everything from the inside out, but he is much more sensitive and thoughtful than he used to be. Perhaps part of that is his increasing maturity rather than the "right" meds!
Our son was not living with us while he was going through all his drama so it is hard for me to comment on all the day to day issues you guys all face. Of course he did live here during high school and we were living in the same city after he graduated from college when he had the major problems and the most drug use so I do have some awareness of what was going on with him!
Jules, does your son talk to his friends about seeing a pdoc and about his diagnosis? I'll be eager to hear what the pdoc has to say to you, whether he will listen to your concerns....
Hope, what is going on in your world?
Hugs to all~
Tsohl
gav_73
01-05-2007, 12:49 AM
I really agree with you tsohl when you say that it probably has as much to do with maturity as it does the meds. I do believe that I have grown up quite a bit in the past few years, and with the right meds, I am able to feel comfortable with that and move forward. I was (and still am, in many ways) very immature. But a lot of that is just my personality, too. I am just a silly old gal. I'm the "crazy" mom, but in a good way as put by my daughter. I always tell her that if she starts dating a guy that I don't like, I'm going to go up to her school in one of those motorcycles with the side cart, dressed in the whole silly get up - scarf, goggles, leather jacket - and honk and honk and honk in line with the other parents picking their kids up from school. She loves it! But the thing is, I really would do it! LOL :)
But I was extremely immature throughout my 20s, until I hit about 27 or 28. I still wanted to go out and have fun, not worry about life, etc. I had to really force myself to grow up and care about my life and myself and start looking at my future. It took a real concerted effort on my part. But you have to have the will to do it, and the will doesn't come until you feel comfortable enough to handle it, to handle accepting responsiblity for your life and actions. It was a scary and huge step for me to take. It's probably hard for all of us, I'm sure.
What may be interesting for your kids to know, and I think is important to convey, however, is that you would never, ever, ever know that all of those things happened in my life, or that I suffered from bipolar disorder, had two children out of wedlock, been to jail and all that from looking at me. I am pretty girl with long blond hair, I look like I'm still in my twenties with a nice smile with sparkling white teeth, petite and always wearing a smile for everyone; I've never had trouble attracting good looking friends and good looking men (not that that matters, but it matters when you're young). I look like everybody's best friend, but I can easily become everybody's worst nightmare if I don't monitor my behavior carefully. I just want your daughters to know, Goody, when they're reading these things that I could very easily be one of them.
Anyway, it's bedtime. I just wanted to acknowledge and thank you Goody and all for your kind words and acceptance of my story. It was scary for me to tell, out of fear of being judged and all that. But I'm happy it helped some of you and I hope it can somehow translate into making a difference in your kids' lives, whether it be from them knowing that someone like me has been there and understands their struggles, or helping you a little more to understanding theirs. :wave:
But I was extremely immature throughout my 20s, until I hit about 27 or 28. I still wanted to go out and have fun, not worry about life, etc. I had to really force myself to grow up and care about my life and myself and start looking at my future. It took a real concerted effort on my part. But you have to have the will to do it, and the will doesn't come until you feel comfortable enough to handle it, to handle accepting responsiblity for your life and actions. It was a scary and huge step for me to take. It's probably hard for all of us, I'm sure.
What may be interesting for your kids to know, and I think is important to convey, however, is that you would never, ever, ever know that all of those things happened in my life, or that I suffered from bipolar disorder, had two children out of wedlock, been to jail and all that from looking at me. I am pretty girl with long blond hair, I look like I'm still in my twenties with a nice smile with sparkling white teeth, petite and always wearing a smile for everyone; I've never had trouble attracting good looking friends and good looking men (not that that matters, but it matters when you're young). I look like everybody's best friend, but I can easily become everybody's worst nightmare if I don't monitor my behavior carefully. I just want your daughters to know, Goody, when they're reading these things that I could very easily be one of them.
Anyway, it's bedtime. I just wanted to acknowledge and thank you Goody and all for your kind words and acceptance of my story. It was scary for me to tell, out of fear of being judged and all that. But I'm happy it helped some of you and I hope it can somehow translate into making a difference in your kids' lives, whether it be from them knowing that someone like me has been there and understands their struggles, or helping you a little more to understanding theirs. :wave:
goody2shuz
01-05-2007, 01:08 AM
Gav ~ I guess what I see as being different about Kait is that she seems to see me as her enemy. I know that she loves me, however, most of our interactions are strained and argumentative. Her time at home is often consumed with getting her wants and needs addressed and if they aren't she is nasty and irritable. She often says such hurtful things to me when she does things wrong placing blame on me. She sees living with us unfair unless she gets her way, so it seems. I think that deep down inside that she knows that things are not okay, that she is always unsettled unless she is doing what she needs to do. Alot of your post sounded so familiar....Kait has often said that she doesn't see anything wrong with her decision making and choices because she wants to "live her days as if it may be her last."
She is a stubborn young lady but has a sensitive side to her as well. She doesn't show it very often but it is there hidden deep within. She often has said that she feels we don't love her....as you described you often felt that way even though the people around you DID show and tell you that they loved you. Just today Kait told me this and I took her in my arms and told her that I needed to know why she felt that way, that her entire life I had spent showing and telling her how much I love her. I told her that when she did things that were wrong or could hurt her that I needed to tell her because I loved her and if I didn't I wouldn't give a damn. So I KNOW that she is going through a tough time inside and I truly wish that I could reach within and touch it but she won't let me in. I remember when she was just 14 years old that when we were going through the toughest time so much anger and so much agitation over anything and everything anytime she was at home I sat down and asked her what was wrong and that I wanted to help her, that she was so unhappy. She quieted and said she didn't know and started to cry. It was the only time that she let me in....I felt like I had gotten in to that part of her that was so closed up and I hugged her and told her that I loved her and hated to see her so unhappy and so miserable. The moment was lost when I asked her to go talk to somebody....we went to therapy a few times in her life as a family and individual but it was always for her to find somebody to be on her side to tell her that she was right. And when it got to anything more that challenged her she gave up and refused to go anymore...so long as somebody was agreeing with her all was okay. And it has been this way ever since. Most of her time at home is spent thinking about what she needs to be happy but she never really seems that way to me even to this day.
Tsohl you asked what is unique and special about Kait. She is really a sweet girl who does show respect for others who don't know her too well. When she was in Junior High and High School whenever we went to parent teacher conferences everybody raved about what a great young lady Kait is and how smart she was. At the time we were seeing a different side of her at home and I recall hubby and I looking at one another wondering if they were talking about another person. That is what they say occurs with kids who are Bipolar.....that to others they appear quite normal but at home Kait was always so agitated and angry. She did do wonderfully with her grades always striving to do her best. Thing is, she really didn't have to apply herself...she was gifted to be able to ace exams and saved her projects for last minute and get them done well. She was in Girl Scouts and went on to earn her Gold Award which is the highest acclaimed accomplishment for a Girl Scout. She started working her first job at the age of 14 and always held a job until she started college and her employers LOVED her and often told us what a wonderful worker she was. She also became a certified Lifeguard and worked this past summer at a Bath and Tennis Club to save for college (of course she spent it all within the first 6 weeks). She really is great with people and is courteous and kind.....I see her going very far because she is a hard worker and is motivated. She is a mush when I hug her but it is so difficult to pin her down for a moment on her way out the door or to her next adventure. When you first asked me to tell you about Kait I must tell you it was difficult because lately there is so much of her impulsive bad behavior going on that I must take a glimpse through it all to see that there is the good still there fighting to get out. It reminds me of Erin before she was medicated.....her being consumed by something I couldn't quite identify and her caught up in it needing help. Kait is caught up in it but won't accept my help. She surfacely is doing well but inside I know that she isn't. This is difficult to describe but I am sure that she is hurting deep inside and doesn't even know it herself. She has it deeply hidden to the point that she doesn't see if or allow anybody else to. Erin was this way too but to a much greater extreme. It took a while for her to admit she needed help and she had a moment like Kait when she said that she didn't know what was wrong and I promised to help her find out. And she came to a point of wanting the help and realizing she needed it. Kait has yet to get to this point and I feel as if I have failed her. But I know she knows that I am there for her whenever she needs and is ready to accept the help. It is scary waiting for the time that she does and I only pray that she stays safe until that time comes.
As far as my brother, he has what they call Complete Autonomic Failure which is a progressive condition of the autonomic nervous system. It started about 4 or 5 years ago when he bit into something and his tooth cracked. The fork he was holding flew across the room. Shortly after he would start having bad headaches and then black out when he stood up. He was first hospitalized when he was driving and blacked out after pulling over to the side of the road. Over the years they have tried to control this with meds....it progressed to the point that his blood pressure would go sky high when he stood up and plummet quickly causing him to pass out. Eventually in order to give him meds that would help they put in a pacemaker so that his pulse wouldn't drop too low while he slept from the meds that regulated his blood pressure. Recently it progressed to the point that he has such severe headaches that quickly have him going into violent tremors.....they last 20 - 30 minutes and you would think he was having a grand mal seizure but he is fully alert and unable to talk because his head and jaw are shaking uncontrollably as well. Most recently the meds will not hold him and he cannot get to a standing position without immeditely going into these violent tremors.....he is having numbness (neuropathy) in all 4 extremities and is in a wheelchair. The condition has now caused numbness to his bladder (neurogenic bladder) to the point that he is unable to feel when he has to relieve himself. Each time he goes into the hospital he comes out further debilitated by his condition. The doctors are hoping to slow down the progression with meds and still have yet to find the right combo. They have tried many combos and still have yet to find one that will work. That is where this consultation with a doctor in Tennesee may possibly help who deals specifically with Autonomic Failure. We are hoping that the doctors will be consulting with him tomorrow sometime. Meanwhile he is in the hospital tyring to regulate his blood pressure and keep it from going too low. He was in acute kidney failure and they have gotten him back to being okay. When his blood pressure goes too low it puts him at higher risk of going into kidney failure so they have him off of most of his meds until his blood pressure improves some more.
So that should help you further understand I hope, the frustration our family faces while we wait to find the meds treatment that will help my brother. The specialist we found claims that he has various med combos and that hopefully one of them will work for my brother. Amazingly this is so similar to what we have to go through with our kids only in my brothers case it is more imperative that we find the right meds soon before this condition further debilitates him.
Well I am off to bed....Kait and I decided to make tomorrow mother/daughter day. I think we both can use that.;)
Goodnight, ladies....Goody:angel: :wave: :yawn:
She is a stubborn young lady but has a sensitive side to her as well. She doesn't show it very often but it is there hidden deep within. She often has said that she feels we don't love her....as you described you often felt that way even though the people around you DID show and tell you that they loved you. Just today Kait told me this and I took her in my arms and told her that I needed to know why she felt that way, that her entire life I had spent showing and telling her how much I love her. I told her that when she did things that were wrong or could hurt her that I needed to tell her because I loved her and if I didn't I wouldn't give a damn. So I KNOW that she is going through a tough time inside and I truly wish that I could reach within and touch it but she won't let me in. I remember when she was just 14 years old that when we were going through the toughest time so much anger and so much agitation over anything and everything anytime she was at home I sat down and asked her what was wrong and that I wanted to help her, that she was so unhappy. She quieted and said she didn't know and started to cry. It was the only time that she let me in....I felt like I had gotten in to that part of her that was so closed up and I hugged her and told her that I loved her and hated to see her so unhappy and so miserable. The moment was lost when I asked her to go talk to somebody....we went to therapy a few times in her life as a family and individual but it was always for her to find somebody to be on her side to tell her that she was right. And when it got to anything more that challenged her she gave up and refused to go anymore...so long as somebody was agreeing with her all was okay. And it has been this way ever since. Most of her time at home is spent thinking about what she needs to be happy but she never really seems that way to me even to this day.
Tsohl you asked what is unique and special about Kait. She is really a sweet girl who does show respect for others who don't know her too well. When she was in Junior High and High School whenever we went to parent teacher conferences everybody raved about what a great young lady Kait is and how smart she was. At the time we were seeing a different side of her at home and I recall hubby and I looking at one another wondering if they were talking about another person. That is what they say occurs with kids who are Bipolar.....that to others they appear quite normal but at home Kait was always so agitated and angry. She did do wonderfully with her grades always striving to do her best. Thing is, she really didn't have to apply herself...she was gifted to be able to ace exams and saved her projects for last minute and get them done well. She was in Girl Scouts and went on to earn her Gold Award which is the highest acclaimed accomplishment for a Girl Scout. She started working her first job at the age of 14 and always held a job until she started college and her employers LOVED her and often told us what a wonderful worker she was. She also became a certified Lifeguard and worked this past summer at a Bath and Tennis Club to save for college (of course she spent it all within the first 6 weeks). She really is great with people and is courteous and kind.....I see her going very far because she is a hard worker and is motivated. She is a mush when I hug her but it is so difficult to pin her down for a moment on her way out the door or to her next adventure. When you first asked me to tell you about Kait I must tell you it was difficult because lately there is so much of her impulsive bad behavior going on that I must take a glimpse through it all to see that there is the good still there fighting to get out. It reminds me of Erin before she was medicated.....her being consumed by something I couldn't quite identify and her caught up in it needing help. Kait is caught up in it but won't accept my help. She surfacely is doing well but inside I know that she isn't. This is difficult to describe but I am sure that she is hurting deep inside and doesn't even know it herself. She has it deeply hidden to the point that she doesn't see if or allow anybody else to. Erin was this way too but to a much greater extreme. It took a while for her to admit she needed help and she had a moment like Kait when she said that she didn't know what was wrong and I promised to help her find out. And she came to a point of wanting the help and realizing she needed it. Kait has yet to get to this point and I feel as if I have failed her. But I know she knows that I am there for her whenever she needs and is ready to accept the help. It is scary waiting for the time that she does and I only pray that she stays safe until that time comes.
As far as my brother, he has what they call Complete Autonomic Failure which is a progressive condition of the autonomic nervous system. It started about 4 or 5 years ago when he bit into something and his tooth cracked. The fork he was holding flew across the room. Shortly after he would start having bad headaches and then black out when he stood up. He was first hospitalized when he was driving and blacked out after pulling over to the side of the road. Over the years they have tried to control this with meds....it progressed to the point that his blood pressure would go sky high when he stood up and plummet quickly causing him to pass out. Eventually in order to give him meds that would help they put in a pacemaker so that his pulse wouldn't drop too low while he slept from the meds that regulated his blood pressure. Recently it progressed to the point that he has such severe headaches that quickly have him going into violent tremors.....they last 20 - 30 minutes and you would think he was having a grand mal seizure but he is fully alert and unable to talk because his head and jaw are shaking uncontrollably as well. Most recently the meds will not hold him and he cannot get to a standing position without immeditely going into these violent tremors.....he is having numbness (neuropathy) in all 4 extremities and is in a wheelchair. The condition has now caused numbness to his bladder (neurogenic bladder) to the point that he is unable to feel when he has to relieve himself. Each time he goes into the hospital he comes out further debilitated by his condition. The doctors are hoping to slow down the progression with meds and still have yet to find the right combo. They have tried many combos and still have yet to find one that will work. That is where this consultation with a doctor in Tennesee may possibly help who deals specifically with Autonomic Failure. We are hoping that the doctors will be consulting with him tomorrow sometime. Meanwhile he is in the hospital tyring to regulate his blood pressure and keep it from going too low. He was in acute kidney failure and they have gotten him back to being okay. When his blood pressure goes too low it puts him at higher risk of going into kidney failure so they have him off of most of his meds until his blood pressure improves some more.
So that should help you further understand I hope, the frustration our family faces while we wait to find the meds treatment that will help my brother. The specialist we found claims that he has various med combos and that hopefully one of them will work for my brother. Amazingly this is so similar to what we have to go through with our kids only in my brothers case it is more imperative that we find the right meds soon before this condition further debilitates him.
Well I am off to bed....Kait and I decided to make tomorrow mother/daughter day. I think we both can use that.;)
Goodnight, ladies....Goody:angel: :wave: :yawn:
gav_73
01-05-2007, 02:40 AM
Gosh, Goody. I didn't realize all the hardship you have going on right now. I am also about to head to bed, but wanted you to know that I was thinking of you tonight and will say a little prayer for you and your family.
As for Kait, I was reading your post about her and how she acts and is acting out, and a thought went through my mind (and this, of course, is in no way meant to be offensive or too forward), but I was wondering if you know whether she's ever experienced any sort of molestation? I am not trying to alarm you in any way, as her wall may just be her personality, as not all of us are comfortable talking about our problems and opening up. But, the anger, the sudden turn to drugs and alcohol, her crying for no reason and acting so unhappy as a young girl, etc. I see so much of my behavior in her, doing well in school and everybody loving me and hiding so well behind my "good girl" facade and fooling everyone outside the home for so long. I was molested by a neighborhood boy and hid it for so long simply out of fear of hurting my already fragile family. Is it possible that something could have happened to her? If so, she could hold a lot of pent up resentment toward you and at the same time, not want to tell you how to help her out of fear of hurting you.
I know it's the very last thing a mother wants to think about, but it happens to so many young girls (I think it's something like every 1 out of 3 or 4 in the US) that I thought I might bring it up. I am not trying to scare you in anyway, Goody, that is not my intention. I don't even know if I should be saying this at all, as I don't want to worry you anymore than you already are. And I am probably way off base, so please don't worry yourself about this. But I also know you are on here looking for answers, and although it is not something any of us mothers ever want to think about, it is something we must think about. I feel that my issues with being molested caused me a LOT of problems with trust, with my family, with every relationship with any person in my life. It had nothing at all to do with me or my parents or anything, and I know in my heart they would have protected me if they had known. But I did hold it against them, even when I wasn't aware of it. It is something that has hurt me all of my life, and still does. But I have also learned to move past it and move forward by talking with people I knew wouldn't judge me.
I am afraid to post this, so please don't be upset with me for bringing it up, as my only goal is to help by offering suggestions or advice on what might be bothering her. It is simply something we as women must all consider, unfortunately, and I only want to help. I'm sorry if I offended anyone in any way, but it was the first thing I thought of when I read your post. :angel:
As for Kait, I was reading your post about her and how she acts and is acting out, and a thought went through my mind (and this, of course, is in no way meant to be offensive or too forward), but I was wondering if you know whether she's ever experienced any sort of molestation? I am not trying to alarm you in any way, as her wall may just be her personality, as not all of us are comfortable talking about our problems and opening up. But, the anger, the sudden turn to drugs and alcohol, her crying for no reason and acting so unhappy as a young girl, etc. I see so much of my behavior in her, doing well in school and everybody loving me and hiding so well behind my "good girl" facade and fooling everyone outside the home for so long. I was molested by a neighborhood boy and hid it for so long simply out of fear of hurting my already fragile family. Is it possible that something could have happened to her? If so, she could hold a lot of pent up resentment toward you and at the same time, not want to tell you how to help her out of fear of hurting you.
I know it's the very last thing a mother wants to think about, but it happens to so many young girls (I think it's something like every 1 out of 3 or 4 in the US) that I thought I might bring it up. I am not trying to scare you in anyway, Goody, that is not my intention. I don't even know if I should be saying this at all, as I don't want to worry you anymore than you already are. And I am probably way off base, so please don't worry yourself about this. But I also know you are on here looking for answers, and although it is not something any of us mothers ever want to think about, it is something we must think about. I feel that my issues with being molested caused me a LOT of problems with trust, with my family, with every relationship with any person in my life. It had nothing at all to do with me or my parents or anything, and I know in my heart they would have protected me if they had known. But I did hold it against them, even when I wasn't aware of it. It is something that has hurt me all of my life, and still does. But I have also learned to move past it and move forward by talking with people I knew wouldn't judge me.
I am afraid to post this, so please don't be upset with me for bringing it up, as my only goal is to help by offering suggestions or advice on what might be bothering her. It is simply something we as women must all consider, unfortunately, and I only want to help. I'm sorry if I offended anyone in any way, but it was the first thing I thought of when I read your post. :angel:
tsohl
01-05-2007, 02:52 AM
Gav ~ I'm pretty sure Goody won't be upset at you for suggesting this. As I recall, on a post many months ago, I think she may have brought up the idea herself. Thought I'd respond so you wouldn't lie awake all night worrying that you had offended. That won't happen. We're on here looking for answers and I know Goody is turning over every single stone she comes across. I'm sure she'll say the same thing tomorrow when she answers you!! 'night. Tsohl
gav_73
01-05-2007, 03:38 AM
Thank you very much, tsohl. I was actually checking in just to reconsider my post. I guess you never know how people will react to those sorts of things. For some it is simply too painful to even consider or confront. But you, Goody and other parents seem so concerned and desperate for answers I thought it was worth a shot. As I said before, it was the very first thing that popped into my mind when I read her post about Kait's behavior. I certainly hope that's not the case. But if it is, at least they can confront it and start the healing process, will know where to start. You just never know what could be going on, because kids rarely talk about such things and you sometimes have to dig it out of them.
Anyway, again, thank you for your reassurances. Nighty night!
:wave:
Anyway, again, thank you for your reassurances. Nighty night!
:wave:
jules3
01-05-2007, 08:48 AM
Ts, im pretty sure hes not on drugs..i can tell when he is..and we drug test him last week..he has a wild look about him when hes acting crazy..it looks like somebody on drugs..but like i said im pretty sure hes not. he has gone for days without sleep..i will call doc this morning..hopefully he will listen to me!
langlee
01-05-2007, 06:42 PM
Dear Gav,
I, too, want to thank you for sharing your story. You are an inspiration to all of us who are trying to help our children navigate through the challenges of being bipolar.
My 16 year old son sounds alot like you described yourself when you were younger and it is heartbreaking to hear of all you went through. There are so many stories of people who have gone on to live wonderful lives with bipolar, but often there is is much travail along the way. I keep telling my son that's what we want to avoid for him. One of the stories of hope that I like alot is a book called "Mind Races" where the author talks about being a bipolar teen. Although he is successful now, and the book is eloquently written, he talks of 6 inpatient hospitalizations. I would love to prevent that. (He has been in an Intensive Outpatient Program and in-patient for 1 week just recently).
We have been through alot with him, too, in a relatively short time - substance abuse, severe self-injury, aggression (VERY unlike him), and many other dangerous, self-medicating behaviors. He had two major events that were catalysts for severe episodes: my mother (who he was extremly close with) died unexpectedly in March and my sister was killed in an accident this past Thanksgiving weekend. My mother's death began a firestorm of self-medicating, abusive behavior and my sister's death brought on a psychotic episode that landed him in the hospital. (No parent should have to watch their teenage son trying to stuff a plastic bag down his throat!)
The good news, for today, is that he finally thinks the combination of meds are beginning to work and he has been much more himself for a few weeks now. He is starting to re-engage with his life and I am thrilled to see it, although I know I have to temper my enthusiasm because tomorrow may be a very different day. For today, I am thankful to see his smile, his laugh, his hope for the future.
I want to thank you for your story of hope and strength and perseverance. In this very tumultous journey we are on, you have been a bright light on a very dark path. Please continue to share with us.
With gratitude,
Hope
I, too, want to thank you for sharing your story. You are an inspiration to all of us who are trying to help our children navigate through the challenges of being bipolar.
My 16 year old son sounds alot like you described yourself when you were younger and it is heartbreaking to hear of all you went through. There are so many stories of people who have gone on to live wonderful lives with bipolar, but often there is is much travail along the way. I keep telling my son that's what we want to avoid for him. One of the stories of hope that I like alot is a book called "Mind Races" where the author talks about being a bipolar teen. Although he is successful now, and the book is eloquently written, he talks of 6 inpatient hospitalizations. I would love to prevent that. (He has been in an Intensive Outpatient Program and in-patient for 1 week just recently).
We have been through alot with him, too, in a relatively short time - substance abuse, severe self-injury, aggression (VERY unlike him), and many other dangerous, self-medicating behaviors. He had two major events that were catalysts for severe episodes: my mother (who he was extremly close with) died unexpectedly in March and my sister was killed in an accident this past Thanksgiving weekend. My mother's death began a firestorm of self-medicating, abusive behavior and my sister's death brought on a psychotic episode that landed him in the hospital. (No parent should have to watch their teenage son trying to stuff a plastic bag down his throat!)
The good news, for today, is that he finally thinks the combination of meds are beginning to work and he has been much more himself for a few weeks now. He is starting to re-engage with his life and I am thrilled to see it, although I know I have to temper my enthusiasm because tomorrow may be a very different day. For today, I am thankful to see his smile, his laugh, his hope for the future.
I want to thank you for your story of hope and strength and perseverance. In this very tumultous journey we are on, you have been a bright light on a very dark path. Please continue to share with us.
With gratitude,
Hope
jules3
01-05-2007, 07:24 PM
Hope, im happy you are getting to see him smile..please tell me again what medications is he taking? we had a horrible week here with my son..he was awake for days..hyper,crazy like..today hes calm,its like after he causes such turmoil in our home. he drains us emotionally, shows no consideration and blames everything on us..i could go on and on. He gets drained and calms down..tomorrow we are going back to original doc..i have to be brutally honest with him, because my son does not tell him about his behaviour or whats going thru his head..he definitly need a mood stabilizer ,i know im not a doctor,but his actions all point towards bi-polar..hes got most of the symptons. ..he doesnt have the reckless spending, because he doesnt have the financial ability. he does self medicate,that i know for sure....does your son show emotion or remorse for anything he has done? does he blame his behaviour on others? im just curious...my son needs a proper diagnosis and proper medication..im just not sure of anything anymore.
goody2shuz
01-05-2007, 07:57 PM
Gav ~ I had a reply all ready to go and lost the entire thing, of course it took me a while to put it together and hopefully this will cover most of what I lost.
FIRST...please do not ever feel that I am offended by anything you or anybody may say around here:nono: I am the type of person who believes in telling it like it is and if anybody ever offended me or I may have misunderstood anything they may have written I will let you know!! But I am here so that those who have been there may help me through and even those who haven't just sending comforting words and prayers really does help. I really try to respond right away, but sometimes life seems to swoop me up and I am unable to, so if I do not respond it doesn't mean that I am upset....most likely I am just too busy to do so.
I am bogged with things to do so I just wanted to get this out so that Gav doesn't worry about my being offended....it's nice that others were able to step in and reassure you of that.
Jules ~ I have a call into somebody who is very proactive with NAMI on Long Island and hopefully we will come up with a pdoc for you....she has a son who is 25 with Bipolar so I am hoping that she will come through with some names for me. Hang in there....okay??
Tsohl ~ Thanks again for your support and for being there...
Hope ~ Glad to hear that Zac is showing some signs of the meds working....I hope that continues.
Pippin...where are you??? We need an update.
And all you other wonderful boarders thanks for all your support.
I will further respond to Gav's concerns when time allows....right now I have a hungry brood to feed starting with the dog!!:)
((((HUGS)))) until I am able to post again ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
FIRST...please do not ever feel that I am offended by anything you or anybody may say around here:nono: I am the type of person who believes in telling it like it is and if anybody ever offended me or I may have misunderstood anything they may have written I will let you know!! But I am here so that those who have been there may help me through and even those who haven't just sending comforting words and prayers really does help. I really try to respond right away, but sometimes life seems to swoop me up and I am unable to, so if I do not respond it doesn't mean that I am upset....most likely I am just too busy to do so.
I am bogged with things to do so I just wanted to get this out so that Gav doesn't worry about my being offended....it's nice that others were able to step in and reassure you of that.
Jules ~ I have a call into somebody who is very proactive with NAMI on Long Island and hopefully we will come up with a pdoc for you....she has a son who is 25 with Bipolar so I am hoping that she will come through with some names for me. Hang in there....okay??
Tsohl ~ Thanks again for your support and for being there...
Hope ~ Glad to hear that Zac is showing some signs of the meds working....I hope that continues.
Pippin...where are you??? We need an update.
And all you other wonderful boarders thanks for all your support.
I will further respond to Gav's concerns when time allows....right now I have a hungry brood to feed starting with the dog!!:)
((((HUGS)))) until I am able to post again ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
goody2shuz
01-05-2007, 10:20 PM
I have a little time and hope to get through this post....on top of everything else I am under the weather and I am really tired and dragging through this day. But I didn't have a choice...I had promised Kait some time and Erin had her appointment with the pdoc today. It was close to my doctor so I made an appointment for myself and I was out from 11am until 5pm and am exhausted.
Anyway....I really appreciate your input, Gav, but I am fairly certain that Kait's problems and behavior have little to do with any sexual abuse or molestation she may have experienced. You will be surprised to see that Kait is failry open with me as is Erin.
When she was around 14 and all of her friends were interested in boys a good friend of hers met a boy from another school who had 3 other friends and they started to hang out with them quite frequently. Kait asked to go hang out after school at this one girls house with these boys and I wasn't comfortable because I knew that the girl's mother worked and there would be no parental supervision. I encouraged Kait to have them come by us but she wasn't interested....some of the other mom's had no problem with this but I didn't like the idea of them being with 4 boys without supervision. It was something Kait and I disagreed about, I allowed her to go in the evenings but not when there were no adults around. Overtime the girls dated the guys and when they broke up with them the guys would date one of the other girls. These boys came from a different school district that was known to have more trouble and was known also to be the rival school of Kait's school. Eventually Kait showed interest in one of the boys and asked to go to the movies on a group date. It was exciting to see her interested in a boy and we okayed it. She went and when she came home I asked her how it went and kiddingly asked if she had gotten her first kiss. She was quiet and shared with me that she had gotten a kiss and the guy also went to put his hand down her pants as well. I tried not to act too shocked and asked her how she felt about that and how she had responded. She went on to tell me how she had slapped his hand away and told him to stop. I told her how proud I was of her and how "ballsy" it was for him to do such a thing in a public place like that. She agreed.
Over the course of a few days when the subject came up I was able to share with Kait how she shouldn't feel ashamed about what had happened and told her that I was sorry that her first date went so badly. I then shared with her how something very similar had happened to me at her age. There was a boy who I really liked and was sort of out of my league. He was the brother in law of the lady I worked as a mother's helper for. He was known as the out of town guy who came every summer to visit. The girls in the nieghborhood looked forward to his arrival and he was HOT, as my girls would say.
Anyway....I got to see much more of him because of my job and when I was about 14 he began to flirt with me and I was on cloud nine. My brother was a wrestler and so was he and we often talked about that together. One night he challenged me to a wrestling match....my brother had taught me alot of moves and I thought it would be a great way to show off some of them. We did a few matches and we were laughing. Then without any notice during one of the matches I found his hand down my pants with him pinning me to the ground and kissing me. It happened so fast and without barely any notice and I managed to quickly make it out from under him and went to check on the baby who was sleeping. He left (we were in an apartment in the restaurant that his brother and wife owned). Within 10 minutes he returned with another guy (who was the older brother of one of my brother's friends) who worked in the restaurant. He said hello and within seconds he had pushed me into the corner of the room forcing his hand up my shirt and was french kissing me. I was mad and knew that the out of town boy had arranged for this to happen. I pushed him away and told them to get out or I would tell my employer and his wife what had happened. They left quickly and I never told a soul about the incident. I carried around with me for many years what I know now to be guilt and shame thinking that somehow I may have prevented it all from happening.....that because I liked this guy and had flirted with him perhaps I had brought it on. As years went on I realized that it wasn't my fault at all. I finally talked about it with some friends when I was in my twenties and found out that they too had experienced similar violations.
I shared this story with both Kait and Erin telling them that it wasn't okay for a boy to do that and that the only thing I regret is not having told the out of towner boy how he had violated me and demanded an apology. For years he returned and I had to relive in my mind what he had done to me. Kait eventually thought that she could go out with this boy, the one who had his hand down her pants, telling me that he had apologized saying that the girls that he had dated liked it when he did that and I told her that it sounded like he had been around the block a few times and asked her how she felt about him. She claimed that he made a mistake and deserved a second chance. I told her that as much as I really wanted to be the out of towners girlfriend, once he had done what he had done to me I no longer found him to be appealing and lost all interest in him....in fact I couldn't get far enough away from him!! Eventually Kait moved on and had nothing more to do with the boy....she told me months later that she had heard that he was suspended from school and kicked off the football team for sexually abusing a girl at school.
Since then Kait has had more boys as friends....at 16 she went out with a boy who was very nice and treated her like a queen. She took advantage of his niceness and accepted expensive gifts and gestures. He treated her and her friends to the carnival in town spending his entire week's pay. He adored her and treated her so well. She met him over the summer when we used our present home as just a summerhome and when she returned to our other home she realized that the long distance factor just wasn't going to work out. Knowing this, she bided her time so that she would be able to get the custom nameplate he planned on giving her for her birthday. Shortly after she stopped IMing with him, didn't accept his calls and then eventually broke up with him by IM on the computer. Hubby and I commented on her "using" this boy and how if girls did this overtime eventually all the "nice guys" would be gone, that she had to learn that guys did have feelings too and to be respectful towards them.
About a year ago Kait went to say goodbye to the boy who treated her so well who graduated early and was off to college. They had remained friends and still are to this day. After I had brought her to say goodbye to him, while we were driving home she asked me if it was possible for two people to get together after many years and have a second chance. I told her that anything was possible and how I believed that if things were meant to be then two people would find each other once again. She told me that she realized what a good guy this guy was and had apologized for hurting him and that she intended to email and IM with him while he was away at college. And she did and still does.
Kait to this day admits that guys take too much energy.....that she doesn't like having to be at their beck and call and she really gets turned off when they have to talk to her or have to spend time with her when she would rather be doing other things with her friends. Over this break she shared with me how she likes this one guy but he doesn't understand that she wants to be free to do things with her friends and not have to be with only him. The way I see it and what Kait has admitted is that she is too self centered, self absorbed and selfish to have a boyfriend. In a way I am relieved but in another way it does concern me that she is unable to get really close to anybody in particular. She seems to always have to be busy with something and if she isn't she announces that she is bored or goes to sleep. That is something that I notice in both of my girls. Does that mean anything???
Okay...so that should bring us up to speed. What are your thoughts with this information??? My instincts tell me that it isn't so much anything to do with molestation but more with letting people in....it's almost like she is afraid somebody will see and discover that she is not really happy.
We talked today and I shared with her what you wanted me to Gav, about how you could be her or anyone and others never really know that you are Bipolar or have had problems even when you were in the midst of them. I also talked alot about my concerns of her putting herself at such risk knowing that she has a genetic predisposition to addictions since we have it on both sides of our family....that the other kids at college didn't have as much to risk as she did. I think she may have heard me, I told her that I loved her and it may sound as if I was a broken record but that a lion will go to all extremes to protect it's young and that is what I felt I needed to do for her. I told her I would drop it and we enjoyed the rest of our day together.
Erin and I went to the pdoc and he increased her Lamictal to 150mgs. He congratulated Erin for all she had endured with her 10 week hospitalization over the summer and how far she had come since he last saw her. He hopes that with the increase with the Lamictal that we will see some improvement with her down moods.
That's our update.....I am going to bed early tonight....seems that I have a sinus infection and that is wiping me out.
Goodnight girls:wave:
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Anyway....I really appreciate your input, Gav, but I am fairly certain that Kait's problems and behavior have little to do with any sexual abuse or molestation she may have experienced. You will be surprised to see that Kait is failry open with me as is Erin.
When she was around 14 and all of her friends were interested in boys a good friend of hers met a boy from another school who had 3 other friends and they started to hang out with them quite frequently. Kait asked to go hang out after school at this one girls house with these boys and I wasn't comfortable because I knew that the girl's mother worked and there would be no parental supervision. I encouraged Kait to have them come by us but she wasn't interested....some of the other mom's had no problem with this but I didn't like the idea of them being with 4 boys without supervision. It was something Kait and I disagreed about, I allowed her to go in the evenings but not when there were no adults around. Overtime the girls dated the guys and when they broke up with them the guys would date one of the other girls. These boys came from a different school district that was known to have more trouble and was known also to be the rival school of Kait's school. Eventually Kait showed interest in one of the boys and asked to go to the movies on a group date. It was exciting to see her interested in a boy and we okayed it. She went and when she came home I asked her how it went and kiddingly asked if she had gotten her first kiss. She was quiet and shared with me that she had gotten a kiss and the guy also went to put his hand down her pants as well. I tried not to act too shocked and asked her how she felt about that and how she had responded. She went on to tell me how she had slapped his hand away and told him to stop. I told her how proud I was of her and how "ballsy" it was for him to do such a thing in a public place like that. She agreed.
Over the course of a few days when the subject came up I was able to share with Kait how she shouldn't feel ashamed about what had happened and told her that I was sorry that her first date went so badly. I then shared with her how something very similar had happened to me at her age. There was a boy who I really liked and was sort of out of my league. He was the brother in law of the lady I worked as a mother's helper for. He was known as the out of town guy who came every summer to visit. The girls in the nieghborhood looked forward to his arrival and he was HOT, as my girls would say.
Anyway....I got to see much more of him because of my job and when I was about 14 he began to flirt with me and I was on cloud nine. My brother was a wrestler and so was he and we often talked about that together. One night he challenged me to a wrestling match....my brother had taught me alot of moves and I thought it would be a great way to show off some of them. We did a few matches and we were laughing. Then without any notice during one of the matches I found his hand down my pants with him pinning me to the ground and kissing me. It happened so fast and without barely any notice and I managed to quickly make it out from under him and went to check on the baby who was sleeping. He left (we were in an apartment in the restaurant that his brother and wife owned). Within 10 minutes he returned with another guy (who was the older brother of one of my brother's friends) who worked in the restaurant. He said hello and within seconds he had pushed me into the corner of the room forcing his hand up my shirt and was french kissing me. I was mad and knew that the out of town boy had arranged for this to happen. I pushed him away and told them to get out or I would tell my employer and his wife what had happened. They left quickly and I never told a soul about the incident. I carried around with me for many years what I know now to be guilt and shame thinking that somehow I may have prevented it all from happening.....that because I liked this guy and had flirted with him perhaps I had brought it on. As years went on I realized that it wasn't my fault at all. I finally talked about it with some friends when I was in my twenties and found out that they too had experienced similar violations.
I shared this story with both Kait and Erin telling them that it wasn't okay for a boy to do that and that the only thing I regret is not having told the out of towner boy how he had violated me and demanded an apology. For years he returned and I had to relive in my mind what he had done to me. Kait eventually thought that she could go out with this boy, the one who had his hand down her pants, telling me that he had apologized saying that the girls that he had dated liked it when he did that and I told her that it sounded like he had been around the block a few times and asked her how she felt about him. She claimed that he made a mistake and deserved a second chance. I told her that as much as I really wanted to be the out of towners girlfriend, once he had done what he had done to me I no longer found him to be appealing and lost all interest in him....in fact I couldn't get far enough away from him!! Eventually Kait moved on and had nothing more to do with the boy....she told me months later that she had heard that he was suspended from school and kicked off the football team for sexually abusing a girl at school.
Since then Kait has had more boys as friends....at 16 she went out with a boy who was very nice and treated her like a queen. She took advantage of his niceness and accepted expensive gifts and gestures. He treated her and her friends to the carnival in town spending his entire week's pay. He adored her and treated her so well. She met him over the summer when we used our present home as just a summerhome and when she returned to our other home she realized that the long distance factor just wasn't going to work out. Knowing this, she bided her time so that she would be able to get the custom nameplate he planned on giving her for her birthday. Shortly after she stopped IMing with him, didn't accept his calls and then eventually broke up with him by IM on the computer. Hubby and I commented on her "using" this boy and how if girls did this overtime eventually all the "nice guys" would be gone, that she had to learn that guys did have feelings too and to be respectful towards them.
About a year ago Kait went to say goodbye to the boy who treated her so well who graduated early and was off to college. They had remained friends and still are to this day. After I had brought her to say goodbye to him, while we were driving home she asked me if it was possible for two people to get together after many years and have a second chance. I told her that anything was possible and how I believed that if things were meant to be then two people would find each other once again. She told me that she realized what a good guy this guy was and had apologized for hurting him and that she intended to email and IM with him while he was away at college. And she did and still does.
Kait to this day admits that guys take too much energy.....that she doesn't like having to be at their beck and call and she really gets turned off when they have to talk to her or have to spend time with her when she would rather be doing other things with her friends. Over this break she shared with me how she likes this one guy but he doesn't understand that she wants to be free to do things with her friends and not have to be with only him. The way I see it and what Kait has admitted is that she is too self centered, self absorbed and selfish to have a boyfriend. In a way I am relieved but in another way it does concern me that she is unable to get really close to anybody in particular. She seems to always have to be busy with something and if she isn't she announces that she is bored or goes to sleep. That is something that I notice in both of my girls. Does that mean anything???
Okay...so that should bring us up to speed. What are your thoughts with this information??? My instincts tell me that it isn't so much anything to do with molestation but more with letting people in....it's almost like she is afraid somebody will see and discover that she is not really happy.
We talked today and I shared with her what you wanted me to Gav, about how you could be her or anyone and others never really know that you are Bipolar or have had problems even when you were in the midst of them. I also talked alot about my concerns of her putting herself at such risk knowing that she has a genetic predisposition to addictions since we have it on both sides of our family....that the other kids at college didn't have as much to risk as she did. I think she may have heard me, I told her that I loved her and it may sound as if I was a broken record but that a lion will go to all extremes to protect it's young and that is what I felt I needed to do for her. I told her I would drop it and we enjoyed the rest of our day together.
Erin and I went to the pdoc and he increased her Lamictal to 150mgs. He congratulated Erin for all she had endured with her 10 week hospitalization over the summer and how far she had come since he last saw her. He hopes that with the increase with the Lamictal that we will see some improvement with her down moods.
That's our update.....I am going to bed early tonight....seems that I have a sinus infection and that is wiping me out.
Goodnight girls:wave:
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
gav_73
01-06-2007, 12:03 AM
Gosh, Goody. You sound like such a wonderful mom. You really do. I guess I always look at things from the extreme, because that is just how I view things. I tend to over-analyze most of the time, both myself and others.
It sounds to me that Kait is a tender-hearted girl that is maybe used to being spoiled and coddled, loved and used to gettting her way. How far apart in age are her and Erin? I know that I was VERY jealous of any extra attention that my brother got when I was growing up. Do you think maybe she's acting out over all the attention Erin's been getting because of her disorder? Like maybe she's starting to do things to get attention from her parents, negative attention, because she is seeing that Erin's "negative" behavior is demanding so much of your attention away from her? I mean, it doesn't sound like that could be what's going on at first glance, because it seems you two are very close, and that you are really going out of your way to spend quality time with her alone. But, it's always a possibility, and maybe she just doesn't realize the reasoning behind her own behavior. And because Kait is so intelligent and independent, do you think that maybe now that she's on her own she's just trying to make the transition from the "daughter" role into the "adult" role in her own, defiant way? I know that a lot of "sheltered" children are often susceptible to peer pressure when on their own because they are attracted to a world that they perceive to be "mysterious," testing the waters to find their own independence.
I know that you are a worried mom, you love your children and want to help them in any way you can. But Kait seems like a good girl, just a wee bit manipulative. But that is pretty typical in intelligent girls, especially if they are attractive. I'm willing to bet she's a very pretty girl. I don't think she even realizes she's doing it, and when she does, you are sure to point it out to her, which is what a responsible parent does. However, she may not see herself as that way, and may resent the "lecture," like it is a criticism of her intellect, of her abilities to make her own decisions as a young woman. Most girls are very insecure at that age, and any constructive criticism can seem like the end of the world, can be twisted into the most irrational and hurtful rejection by the criticiser. But I sincerely believe that her age and circumstances explain her acting out more than anything else. After all, this is the first time in her life that she hasn't had mom or dad guiding her, holding her hand and protecting her from the evils of the world. Now that she's out making her own decisions, she's probably very proud of herself, and when you questions her judgment, she probably wants to explode, even though you have every right to, and you love her.
Living fast, once you're into it, is very attractive to a young girl who's been sheltered, especially if they have a "leader" mentality and perceive themselves to be a leader of their friends. They think they can handle more than most. Most people think that the "followers" are the ones that are usually more susceptible to peer pressure, and that's probably true, but they are also easier to control, in my opinion, by the parents when they intervene. After all, the followers want to be told what to do. The "leaders" on the other hand, are the ones who typically instigate bad behavior, and are much less likely to listen when parents intervene. If they didn't want to do it for whatever reason, they wouldn't, they are the instigator, the manipulator of the situation they are in, and can get out of it when they want to, or at least, think they can. I was one of those. So, because I was the instigator, I felt like I had more control over the situation than the others and could handle it. And I was very opinionated toward anyone who challenged me, especially an authority figure.
But all in all, from what I've read so far, it sounds to me like Kait is a very smart, caring, attractive girl who's grown up used to having her way and thrives on attention. Since Erin's diagnosis and troubles have diverted the family's attention away from her, she is seeking it elsewhere. Because she has learned to manipulate people to get her way, she depends on what she knows to find power in her life again, and becuase she's insecure about losing that attention, she is finding it within a group of people she feels will most certainly give it to her, those she's not afraid of rejecting her, because she's the leader. If this is what's going on, she feels less power amongst people who are her real peers, those with whom she will have to compete for a power position within the group. Since she's looking for attention and rebelling at the same time, it becomes a little more clear why she's chosen to make friends with those who are "less" than her, those using drugs and alcohol and doing things she'd only heard or read about. She also knows that her behavior will also get your attention real quick. In addition, that world to a young, intelligent girl trying to find her way in life, can be very, very seductive. I'm just brainstorming here, but maybe, just maybe, doing this will help us figure out what's going on. And that's the point, eh? :)
Hope this helps. I truly believe that you are doing everything right, Goody. You are a very, very caring and attentive mother, and I have no doubt that you hug your children and constantly reassure them that they are loved. I'm sure they know in their hearts that you would go to the end of the world for them. I mean, I barely know you at all, and I can see that from a million miles away. You are doing all you can to help them make the right decisions, and my advice to you is to keep doing what your doing. Love can go a long, long way with kids, even when they on the surface appear not to care or reject it. Just knowing that you will be there to listen to them, to love them and help them when they realize it's time to ask, will make all the difference in the world in my opinion, when they are in trouble. Just as you say you think my words sunk in a little with her, I think your words are sinking much deeper than mine. You are doing everything right, Goody. I wish I had a mom like you! :) The women in my family were harder emotionally, or too consumed in their own worlds to care what was going on with us. From my great-grandmother on down, they were academics first, wives second, and mother's third. My mom grew up with a nanny and didn't know a whole lot about mothering herself. Neither did I. Your girls know what they have in you, they really do. And when they really need it, they'll know just where to go!
I hope you get better soon. I just got over a bad sinus infection myself that turned to bronchitis just recently. It's the real pits.
It sounds to me that Kait is a tender-hearted girl that is maybe used to being spoiled and coddled, loved and used to gettting her way. How far apart in age are her and Erin? I know that I was VERY jealous of any extra attention that my brother got when I was growing up. Do you think maybe she's acting out over all the attention Erin's been getting because of her disorder? Like maybe she's starting to do things to get attention from her parents, negative attention, because she is seeing that Erin's "negative" behavior is demanding so much of your attention away from her? I mean, it doesn't sound like that could be what's going on at first glance, because it seems you two are very close, and that you are really going out of your way to spend quality time with her alone. But, it's always a possibility, and maybe she just doesn't realize the reasoning behind her own behavior. And because Kait is so intelligent and independent, do you think that maybe now that she's on her own she's just trying to make the transition from the "daughter" role into the "adult" role in her own, defiant way? I know that a lot of "sheltered" children are often susceptible to peer pressure when on their own because they are attracted to a world that they perceive to be "mysterious," testing the waters to find their own independence.
I know that you are a worried mom, you love your children and want to help them in any way you can. But Kait seems like a good girl, just a wee bit manipulative. But that is pretty typical in intelligent girls, especially if they are attractive. I'm willing to bet she's a very pretty girl. I don't think she even realizes she's doing it, and when she does, you are sure to point it out to her, which is what a responsible parent does. However, she may not see herself as that way, and may resent the "lecture," like it is a criticism of her intellect, of her abilities to make her own decisions as a young woman. Most girls are very insecure at that age, and any constructive criticism can seem like the end of the world, can be twisted into the most irrational and hurtful rejection by the criticiser. But I sincerely believe that her age and circumstances explain her acting out more than anything else. After all, this is the first time in her life that she hasn't had mom or dad guiding her, holding her hand and protecting her from the evils of the world. Now that she's out making her own decisions, she's probably very proud of herself, and when you questions her judgment, she probably wants to explode, even though you have every right to, and you love her.
Living fast, once you're into it, is very attractive to a young girl who's been sheltered, especially if they have a "leader" mentality and perceive themselves to be a leader of their friends. They think they can handle more than most. Most people think that the "followers" are the ones that are usually more susceptible to peer pressure, and that's probably true, but they are also easier to control, in my opinion, by the parents when they intervene. After all, the followers want to be told what to do. The "leaders" on the other hand, are the ones who typically instigate bad behavior, and are much less likely to listen when parents intervene. If they didn't want to do it for whatever reason, they wouldn't, they are the instigator, the manipulator of the situation they are in, and can get out of it when they want to, or at least, think they can. I was one of those. So, because I was the instigator, I felt like I had more control over the situation than the others and could handle it. And I was very opinionated toward anyone who challenged me, especially an authority figure.
But all in all, from what I've read so far, it sounds to me like Kait is a very smart, caring, attractive girl who's grown up used to having her way and thrives on attention. Since Erin's diagnosis and troubles have diverted the family's attention away from her, she is seeking it elsewhere. Because she has learned to manipulate people to get her way, she depends on what she knows to find power in her life again, and becuase she's insecure about losing that attention, she is finding it within a group of people she feels will most certainly give it to her, those she's not afraid of rejecting her, because she's the leader. If this is what's going on, she feels less power amongst people who are her real peers, those with whom she will have to compete for a power position within the group. Since she's looking for attention and rebelling at the same time, it becomes a little more clear why she's chosen to make friends with those who are "less" than her, those using drugs and alcohol and doing things she'd only heard or read about. She also knows that her behavior will also get your attention real quick. In addition, that world to a young, intelligent girl trying to find her way in life, can be very, very seductive. I'm just brainstorming here, but maybe, just maybe, doing this will help us figure out what's going on. And that's the point, eh? :)
Hope this helps. I truly believe that you are doing everything right, Goody. You are a very, very caring and attentive mother, and I have no doubt that you hug your children and constantly reassure them that they are loved. I'm sure they know in their hearts that you would go to the end of the world for them. I mean, I barely know you at all, and I can see that from a million miles away. You are doing all you can to help them make the right decisions, and my advice to you is to keep doing what your doing. Love can go a long, long way with kids, even when they on the surface appear not to care or reject it. Just knowing that you will be there to listen to them, to love them and help them when they realize it's time to ask, will make all the difference in the world in my opinion, when they are in trouble. Just as you say you think my words sunk in a little with her, I think your words are sinking much deeper than mine. You are doing everything right, Goody. I wish I had a mom like you! :) The women in my family were harder emotionally, or too consumed in their own worlds to care what was going on with us. From my great-grandmother on down, they were academics first, wives second, and mother's third. My mom grew up with a nanny and didn't know a whole lot about mothering herself. Neither did I. Your girls know what they have in you, they really do. And when they really need it, they'll know just where to go!
I hope you get better soon. I just got over a bad sinus infection myself that turned to bronchitis just recently. It's the real pits.
goody2shuz
01-06-2007, 04:27 PM
Gav ~ WOW, thanks for your wonderful compliments......I am just doing the best that I can but must admit this infection is taking it's toll on me.
Your words really meant alot to me and give me what I need to forge ahead....it sure isn't easy.
I can see what you are saying regarding Kait and her feeling slighted with Erin's need of my attention, however, all of this started even before Erin's problems came to a head. You are right.....Kait has pretty much gotten what she has wanted in life but hubby and I were very careful to make sure that she realized that things are just not handed over, that it takes work and sacrifice to get things that you want. When her friend's parents were buying those Tomagottchis or Giga pets our kids had to save their money that they earned in allowance and we would go and get them. Part of the reason that Kait got a job at 14 was to save for some of the things that she wanted that went above and beyond her needs. I think that alot of Kait's anger stems from having to work for the things that she has rather than them just being handed over to her like her friend's parents have done. I am not disregarding the fact of what you say about Kait's behavior being a product of her wanting to gain some control in her life and going about it in a negative way, however, I am still quite concerned about how much longer she will be doing this and the consequences it will impose on her life. I really had to dig for the sweetness and good parts of Kait....lately it just seems that she is driven by the negative things in life. And that does worry me. This has been going on for many years....I didn't KNOW to worry about it until Erin had been diagnosed....we had many volatile years with Kait and we thought it was just a rebellious teen but now we know better. Our household was a battle ground and extremely charged up by Kait's anger and frustrations since she was 14. If things did not go her way our lives were a living hell....everything was our fault, we were rotten parents and she hated living with us. Just yesterday she said that everything is alright until she comes home....that she hates being home. She doesn't want to have any rules, curfews, restrictions of any sort...she just wants to come and go as she pleases and us to foot the bill. Some of the things that she says are so hurtful....she has told her friends how awful we are and gives one side of the story in which we are to balame and she is innocent....like my parents are refusing to pay for my college anymore unless I get a B average....she fails to tell them that we are worried about her choices and how she is spending her time partying and getting into trouble rather than concentrating on her grades.
Anyway....I know that I am doing my best and that hopefully, as you say my efforts will not go unnoticed and Kait will one day see that I am not the mom who is set out to ruin her life.
Thanks, Gav, for your kind words....they really mean alot to me.
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Your words really meant alot to me and give me what I need to forge ahead....it sure isn't easy.
I can see what you are saying regarding Kait and her feeling slighted with Erin's need of my attention, however, all of this started even before Erin's problems came to a head. You are right.....Kait has pretty much gotten what she has wanted in life but hubby and I were very careful to make sure that she realized that things are just not handed over, that it takes work and sacrifice to get things that you want. When her friend's parents were buying those Tomagottchis or Giga pets our kids had to save their money that they earned in allowance and we would go and get them. Part of the reason that Kait got a job at 14 was to save for some of the things that she wanted that went above and beyond her needs. I think that alot of Kait's anger stems from having to work for the things that she has rather than them just being handed over to her like her friend's parents have done. I am not disregarding the fact of what you say about Kait's behavior being a product of her wanting to gain some control in her life and going about it in a negative way, however, I am still quite concerned about how much longer she will be doing this and the consequences it will impose on her life. I really had to dig for the sweetness and good parts of Kait....lately it just seems that she is driven by the negative things in life. And that does worry me. This has been going on for many years....I didn't KNOW to worry about it until Erin had been diagnosed....we had many volatile years with Kait and we thought it was just a rebellious teen but now we know better. Our household was a battle ground and extremely charged up by Kait's anger and frustrations since she was 14. If things did not go her way our lives were a living hell....everything was our fault, we were rotten parents and she hated living with us. Just yesterday she said that everything is alright until she comes home....that she hates being home. She doesn't want to have any rules, curfews, restrictions of any sort...she just wants to come and go as she pleases and us to foot the bill. Some of the things that she says are so hurtful....she has told her friends how awful we are and gives one side of the story in which we are to balame and she is innocent....like my parents are refusing to pay for my college anymore unless I get a B average....she fails to tell them that we are worried about her choices and how she is spending her time partying and getting into trouble rather than concentrating on her grades.
Anyway....I know that I am doing my best and that hopefully, as you say my efforts will not go unnoticed and Kait will one day see that I am not the mom who is set out to ruin her life.
Thanks, Gav, for your kind words....they really mean alot to me.
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
gav_73
01-06-2007, 06:14 PM
Goody, I totally agree with your method of parenting. I believe that there is nothing more awful than handing your children everything they want materially when they want it, rewarding them for absolutely nothing. It does not build character, it teaches them nothing about life whatsoever. I think it actually does more damage than anything. Most of those children grow up into corrupt and unethical adults without any sense of community, work ethic, or anything to offer the world in my opinion. It's one thing to spoil with love (which was what I meant in my letter about Kait), and another to spoil for other reasons, like to just give your kids what they want so you don't have to deal with them, which is what a lot of parents do, unfortunately. I completely agree with the way you're raising your kids. If I didn't, I wouldn't say anything at all.
She very well could be dealing with some behavioral and'or psychiatric issues herself, such as depression or bipolar. Sometimes it doesn't creep up until you're an adult, and there appears to be some sort of genetic predisposition to develop these disorders from what I've read. And then sometimes, it just happens to others without any connection to the family at all. I believe that my mom may suffer from bipolar disorder, but remains undiagnosed. However, she's suffered from panic attacks and depression for as long as I can remember. She is also the only other artist in the family, like me. These sorts of things are VERY hush, hush in our family. Therefore, I don't know the full story of any mental problems in my family. But I think my uncle suffers from depression, I've heard that my great aunt used to be an alcoholic (and I was SHOCKED to hear that, as you never would have guessed), and we just found out recently that my great-grandmother also suffered from panic attacks. It's all on my mom's side, and I am like the spitting image of my mother, I am like her clone. We look alike, have the same personality, and we even work in the same profession, leaving behind the art and focusing on math in our careers. I even think my brother has had some issues in college, but has since moved past them.
Who knows, but it wouldn't be unheard of for both of your daughters to have some sort of mental issues. It is very common, and I hope the stigma will one day subside because it is really nothing to be ashamed of, and absolutely nothing to be ignored, as you know. Do you know if mental illness run on your or your husband's side of the family? Were either of your children premature - I've read that premature children are more prone to mental disturbances later on in life than full term babies because their brains may have not been fully developed, or they are at greater risk of injury, which may only show as emotional problems. I wonder if your daughter has some hormonal issues? I think that hormones greatly contributed to my behavioral problems after puberty. I still have severe PMS and I am like a different person. I have programmed myself not to react or make decisions during that time, because they are always bad, and would contribute to my level of depression if I acted upon my feelings during that time. It's so complicated, it could be any number of things.
It seems like she's very open with you, even when you're together. You sound so sweet and caring. Sometimes it's easier for kids to confront parents who they know will not abandon them. When a kid has a very tenuous relationship with their parents, like I did, they are too afraid to say anything that might fracture it since it is already so fragile. It's still like that between me and my family, and if they hurt my feelings, I never say a word. But when I was younger, I would just run away and not deal with them at all. I simply could not deal with the rejection. But it doesn't seem like Kait feels that way at all. It appears that she feels quite comfortable saying whatever she's feeling, no matter how mean, and knows that you will not abandon her. As much as it makes your life a living hell, I do think on deeper levels that is a good sign.
As far as not paying for college unless she maintains a certain grade point average, I totally agree with your decision making. It never seems fair, but I was raised in the same type of environment, and so was my mom, and so was her mom and dad. My grandparents were very rich, lived in a huge mansion with limos and airplanes, and my mom's first car had a hole in the floor of it. LOL My mom still tells that story. But I can also say that all the children raised that way went on to be very, very responsible adults, if not responsible parents. My mom works for NASA, both my uncles speak several languages and have several advanced degrees, and my aunt heads the speech and audiology department at a prestigious hospital. Their parents never gave them a dime until they were accomplished adults. They, of course, hated it, we all did, but I am grateful for it now. It builds character and decision making skills, it teaches you not to take life for granted, and you and your husband are doing a wonderful job instilling that in your kids, as much as they hate you for it now.
As much trouble as Kait is giving you, she seems like a bright and independent girl who is not afraid of standing up for herself, and that is good considering her lifestyle at the moment. If she is surrounding herself with friends who she feels powerful over, she is their leader, they respect her, and she will be able to stand up to them when she needs to, to stand up for herself. I was wondering if you've ever seen that show on A&E called "Intervention." It is very disturbing. It's about drug addicts and how their families intervene to get them help, to offer ultimatums. It is very graphic and upsetting, but it is a real eye opener on how drugs and alcohol, or addictions in general, can ruin a person's life. It's pretty disgusting. I've always told myself that when my daughter's old enough, I want her to watch it with me. It's enough to scare anybody straight.
I don't know if your daughter is at a point where she would watch such as show without feeling intruded upon. She would probably end up laughing it off. But it is one way, if you can get her to watch it, to get through to her. Maybe if she laughs it off in front of you, she might watch the show on her own one day. If you want something to sink in about addictions and how it could ruin someone's life, this would be the show to watch. It's enough to make you sick! And scared!
She very well could be dealing with some behavioral and'or psychiatric issues herself, such as depression or bipolar. Sometimes it doesn't creep up until you're an adult, and there appears to be some sort of genetic predisposition to develop these disorders from what I've read. And then sometimes, it just happens to others without any connection to the family at all. I believe that my mom may suffer from bipolar disorder, but remains undiagnosed. However, she's suffered from panic attacks and depression for as long as I can remember. She is also the only other artist in the family, like me. These sorts of things are VERY hush, hush in our family. Therefore, I don't know the full story of any mental problems in my family. But I think my uncle suffers from depression, I've heard that my great aunt used to be an alcoholic (and I was SHOCKED to hear that, as you never would have guessed), and we just found out recently that my great-grandmother also suffered from panic attacks. It's all on my mom's side, and I am like the spitting image of my mother, I am like her clone. We look alike, have the same personality, and we even work in the same profession, leaving behind the art and focusing on math in our careers. I even think my brother has had some issues in college, but has since moved past them.
Who knows, but it wouldn't be unheard of for both of your daughters to have some sort of mental issues. It is very common, and I hope the stigma will one day subside because it is really nothing to be ashamed of, and absolutely nothing to be ignored, as you know. Do you know if mental illness run on your or your husband's side of the family? Were either of your children premature - I've read that premature children are more prone to mental disturbances later on in life than full term babies because their brains may have not been fully developed, or they are at greater risk of injury, which may only show as emotional problems. I wonder if your daughter has some hormonal issues? I think that hormones greatly contributed to my behavioral problems after puberty. I still have severe PMS and I am like a different person. I have programmed myself not to react or make decisions during that time, because they are always bad, and would contribute to my level of depression if I acted upon my feelings during that time. It's so complicated, it could be any number of things.
It seems like she's very open with you, even when you're together. You sound so sweet and caring. Sometimes it's easier for kids to confront parents who they know will not abandon them. When a kid has a very tenuous relationship with their parents, like I did, they are too afraid to say anything that might fracture it since it is already so fragile. It's still like that between me and my family, and if they hurt my feelings, I never say a word. But when I was younger, I would just run away and not deal with them at all. I simply could not deal with the rejection. But it doesn't seem like Kait feels that way at all. It appears that she feels quite comfortable saying whatever she's feeling, no matter how mean, and knows that you will not abandon her. As much as it makes your life a living hell, I do think on deeper levels that is a good sign.
As far as not paying for college unless she maintains a certain grade point average, I totally agree with your decision making. It never seems fair, but I was raised in the same type of environment, and so was my mom, and so was her mom and dad. My grandparents were very rich, lived in a huge mansion with limos and airplanes, and my mom's first car had a hole in the floor of it. LOL My mom still tells that story. But I can also say that all the children raised that way went on to be very, very responsible adults, if not responsible parents. My mom works for NASA, both my uncles speak several languages and have several advanced degrees, and my aunt heads the speech and audiology department at a prestigious hospital. Their parents never gave them a dime until they were accomplished adults. They, of course, hated it, we all did, but I am grateful for it now. It builds character and decision making skills, it teaches you not to take life for granted, and you and your husband are doing a wonderful job instilling that in your kids, as much as they hate you for it now.
As much trouble as Kait is giving you, she seems like a bright and independent girl who is not afraid of standing up for herself, and that is good considering her lifestyle at the moment. If she is surrounding herself with friends who she feels powerful over, she is their leader, they respect her, and she will be able to stand up to them when she needs to, to stand up for herself. I was wondering if you've ever seen that show on A&E called "Intervention." It is very disturbing. It's about drug addicts and how their families intervene to get them help, to offer ultimatums. It is very graphic and upsetting, but it is a real eye opener on how drugs and alcohol, or addictions in general, can ruin a person's life. It's pretty disgusting. I've always told myself that when my daughter's old enough, I want her to watch it with me. It's enough to scare anybody straight.
I don't know if your daughter is at a point where she would watch such as show without feeling intruded upon. She would probably end up laughing it off. But it is one way, if you can get her to watch it, to get through to her. Maybe if she laughs it off in front of you, she might watch the show on her own one day. If you want something to sink in about addictions and how it could ruin someone's life, this would be the show to watch. It's enough to make you sick! And scared!
langlee
01-06-2007, 06:25 PM
Dear dear, Jules,
I can hear the pain in your voice, but I see on the other thread that your son is finally recognizing that he doesn't want to feel this way. None of them do. It's hard for us as parents to be as empathetic as we'd like when they are so out of control, but we have to keep remembering who our children are at their core and work to restore that for them.
Zac is currently on 200 mg. of Lamictal, 15 mg. of Abilify, 100 mg. of Seroquel for sleep and Seroquel as needed for anxiety. He is not currently on an anti-depressant because his main problems seem to be irritability and manic issues, not depression right now. He was on Celexa for a short time, but it seemed to make things worse. I know your son said he doesn't want to try Lamictal, but he should keep an open mind. Zac tried Lithium and Trileptal and neither were as good as the Lamictal. For Zac to say he feels like the meds are finally working is a godsend to me! I think the hardest thing for them is to take the meds and not feel better. Then they think nothing wil ever work, so why bother?
We've gone through some awful times here, Jules, so I know how wearing it can be. We've had the police here twice and once, in a fit of anger, my son took a mosaic garden stone he made for my husband when he was younger and started bashing it into the side of my husband's car. He has also been incredibly verbally abusive to me, saying things that are hard to forget.
BUT, I know it's not him, it's the disorder unregulated. His natural personality, while intense, is joyful, compassionate, and caring and that is the person I want him to be. Keep your hopes up, Jules. Eventually you'll get to a better place and, in the meantime, just keep reassuring your son that you will not give up on him and together you WILL find the right answers for him.
How is your husband holding up? On one of the threads, I responded to the stress you two were having, but I don't remember which thread it was and not sure if you ever saw it. This is so hard on everyone!
Goody, I am so sorry I haven't been more help with Kait. Because Zac is younger, I don't have any experience with someone her age and I'm baffled as to what to tell you. It sounds, like always, that you are being a wonderful mother and that she knows that, in her heart of hearts. I hope that Erin has the same good success with the increased dose of Lamictal that Zac is having.
Today Zac is at a tournament with the high school and he sounds good! It is so exciting to hear his voice and know that he is handling the stress, but participating and feeling like a teenager again. I pray it continues.
Pippin - I know you posted a few times, but we seem to have lost you again! Please write when you can.
Tsohl, as always, I am grateful for your wisdom and your insight.
Gav, welcome to this thread! You've been such a ray of light!
Hang in there everybody! Love to all!
Hope
I can hear the pain in your voice, but I see on the other thread that your son is finally recognizing that he doesn't want to feel this way. None of them do. It's hard for us as parents to be as empathetic as we'd like when they are so out of control, but we have to keep remembering who our children are at their core and work to restore that for them.
Zac is currently on 200 mg. of Lamictal, 15 mg. of Abilify, 100 mg. of Seroquel for sleep and Seroquel as needed for anxiety. He is not currently on an anti-depressant because his main problems seem to be irritability and manic issues, not depression right now. He was on Celexa for a short time, but it seemed to make things worse. I know your son said he doesn't want to try Lamictal, but he should keep an open mind. Zac tried Lithium and Trileptal and neither were as good as the Lamictal. For Zac to say he feels like the meds are finally working is a godsend to me! I think the hardest thing for them is to take the meds and not feel better. Then they think nothing wil ever work, so why bother?
We've gone through some awful times here, Jules, so I know how wearing it can be. We've had the police here twice and once, in a fit of anger, my son took a mosaic garden stone he made for my husband when he was younger and started bashing it into the side of my husband's car. He has also been incredibly verbally abusive to me, saying things that are hard to forget.
BUT, I know it's not him, it's the disorder unregulated. His natural personality, while intense, is joyful, compassionate, and caring and that is the person I want him to be. Keep your hopes up, Jules. Eventually you'll get to a better place and, in the meantime, just keep reassuring your son that you will not give up on him and together you WILL find the right answers for him.
How is your husband holding up? On one of the threads, I responded to the stress you two were having, but I don't remember which thread it was and not sure if you ever saw it. This is so hard on everyone!
Goody, I am so sorry I haven't been more help with Kait. Because Zac is younger, I don't have any experience with someone her age and I'm baffled as to what to tell you. It sounds, like always, that you are being a wonderful mother and that she knows that, in her heart of hearts. I hope that Erin has the same good success with the increased dose of Lamictal that Zac is having.
Today Zac is at a tournament with the high school and he sounds good! It is so exciting to hear his voice and know that he is handling the stress, but participating and feeling like a teenager again. I pray it continues.
Pippin - I know you posted a few times, but we seem to have lost you again! Please write when you can.
Tsohl, as always, I am grateful for your wisdom and your insight.
Gav, welcome to this thread! You've been such a ray of light!
Hang in there everybody! Love to all!
Hope
gav_73
01-06-2007, 06:47 PM
Thanks, Hope! :D
jules3
01-06-2007, 09:03 PM
well we had a visit all 3 of us..my son was calm and crying a little in the office..he was not angry and obnoxious like hes been in the past..the doctor told him he is bipolar 1 and had a manic episode..my son hates the word bipolar and refuses to accept it..hes just so stubborn..but the doc did tell me that is was common at first to have a problem being told you are bipolar. anyway, he put him on lithobid, abilify, klononpin and ambien cr to sleep...lots of meds huh? he is on his laptop right now looking up these medications..please pray that he takes them or this all would be pointless...i was a little put off ,the doc asked us if we can put him up in his own apartment...Now, come on,we are a middle class family,living on long island ny..paying taxes that are insane..and paying our bills..i told the doc we cant afford that..Was i wrong? jeez, we have 2 other kids..one going to college in the fall.and we are paying his tuition bills...the doc said lithobid works right away and abilify will take a short time..any ideas on that?
tsohl
01-06-2007, 10:55 PM
Hi all,
Good to hear a little news from you all.
~Jules~ I am a little confused with your situation. If I'm recalling, the pdoc that prescribed all the meds today is not the same one as your son saw by himself....is that correct? How is this going to work? Also why did the pdoc think your son should have his own apartment? Regarding the meds, that's great that your son is researching the various meds. He needs to take ownership of his diagnosis and being willing to learn about the meds should be one step in that direction. Remind him that each person has a unique chemical makeup and will respond in a unique way to each med. Also sometimes you need to be on something for awhile before it "works." I think some people give up too quickly. Also just because he might start out on a number of meds, that doesn't mean he will be on that number forever. For example, my son is currently on lithium, lamictal and effexor, down from a total of 5, and his pdoc says if his progress continues as rapidly as it has, within a year he will just need one, which he'll probably need for the rest of his life. I think part of this progress is that he gave up all alcohol and anything else he might have tried in the past. His worst habit now is drinking too much Mountain Dew!
Hope~ It sounds like you finally have had a couple good days in a row. I am delighted that you see some progress with Zac's meds. May I just remind you to remember that progress may be measured in baby steps? It is easy to get impatient when you finally see something good coming from the meds and you may want to push ahead with what may be more than Zac can handle...so just be aware of this and go easy!!
And Goody, I really don't know what to think about Kait. My daughter has assured me that it seems to be really difficult for parents to understand that when they send their kids away to college, they have absolutely NO control over them! Some may think they do, but, in reality, they don't. The kids that feel that their parents have had a tight grip on them seem to be the ones that do the most acting out --drinking and partying to excess. Kait is very headstrong and it doesn't sound to me like there is very much you can do to change her behavior. I think you need to go ahead with the plan you feel comfortable with, make sure Kait understands what you and hubby have agreed upon, and then let go and let the chips fall where they will. I just have the feeling that Kait has some growing up to do and that pretty soon drinking and partying will lose its allure~maybe some of her playmates will flunk out or she will meet some other kids who have other priorities. On the other hand, if she does have bipolar tendencies and keeps on drinking, sooner or later she will have an episode and then you'll know more clearly what you're dealing with. When does she go back to school? Is Erin back in school and what is happening with the play?
On a slightly different note, is your brother's specialist from Vanderbilt? I am full of questions, aren't I? I am slightly familiar with his condition. I'd just never heard of it being so serious. I am praying for him. He is so young.
Hope everyone is having a calm weekend.
best,
Tsohl
Good to hear a little news from you all.
~Jules~ I am a little confused with your situation. If I'm recalling, the pdoc that prescribed all the meds today is not the same one as your son saw by himself....is that correct? How is this going to work? Also why did the pdoc think your son should have his own apartment? Regarding the meds, that's great that your son is researching the various meds. He needs to take ownership of his diagnosis and being willing to learn about the meds should be one step in that direction. Remind him that each person has a unique chemical makeup and will respond in a unique way to each med. Also sometimes you need to be on something for awhile before it "works." I think some people give up too quickly. Also just because he might start out on a number of meds, that doesn't mean he will be on that number forever. For example, my son is currently on lithium, lamictal and effexor, down from a total of 5, and his pdoc says if his progress continues as rapidly as it has, within a year he will just need one, which he'll probably need for the rest of his life. I think part of this progress is that he gave up all alcohol and anything else he might have tried in the past. His worst habit now is drinking too much Mountain Dew!
Hope~ It sounds like you finally have had a couple good days in a row. I am delighted that you see some progress with Zac's meds. May I just remind you to remember that progress may be measured in baby steps? It is easy to get impatient when you finally see something good coming from the meds and you may want to push ahead with what may be more than Zac can handle...so just be aware of this and go easy!!
And Goody, I really don't know what to think about Kait. My daughter has assured me that it seems to be really difficult for parents to understand that when they send their kids away to college, they have absolutely NO control over them! Some may think they do, but, in reality, they don't. The kids that feel that their parents have had a tight grip on them seem to be the ones that do the most acting out --drinking and partying to excess. Kait is very headstrong and it doesn't sound to me like there is very much you can do to change her behavior. I think you need to go ahead with the plan you feel comfortable with, make sure Kait understands what you and hubby have agreed upon, and then let go and let the chips fall where they will. I just have the feeling that Kait has some growing up to do and that pretty soon drinking and partying will lose its allure~maybe some of her playmates will flunk out or she will meet some other kids who have other priorities. On the other hand, if she does have bipolar tendencies and keeps on drinking, sooner or later she will have an episode and then you'll know more clearly what you're dealing with. When does she go back to school? Is Erin back in school and what is happening with the play?
On a slightly different note, is your brother's specialist from Vanderbilt? I am full of questions, aren't I? I am slightly familiar with his condition. I'd just never heard of it being so serious. I am praying for him. He is so young.
Hope everyone is having a calm weekend.
best,
Tsohl
jules3
01-06-2007, 11:55 PM
Ts, he was seeing a pdoc and then decided to try another..he did see him 2 times on his own..he told my son he has an anxiety disorder..not bipolar..the problem is that when he saw that doc ,he does not tell him everything..he leaves out alot ..anyway that doc told him to go off his seroquel,which he did..it was causing weight gain which upset him a great deal..this past week he was manic. staying up all night long for days,insisted on driving our car when he out of control..my husband said he would give him a ride..he proceeded to jump out of the car as it was moving..he broke things in our home.he ran up and down our block screaming and cursing..etc... he showed no remorse ,consideration,or compassion for any of us..he is traumatizing my younger daughter..she is scared of him when he gets like that..that is why the doc suggested he get his own apartment..because he is causing so much turmoil in our home. after all he has done, he kinda crashes, he gets drained emotionally..nothing compared to how we feel. then he tells us he cant help the way he acts..its sad, but he is not our only child.my other 2 are so affected by all this..so, if he wants to live here with us,he needs to be on medication to help him..the biggest problem we have is that he will not admit to being bipolar,thinks it has a stigma attached to it..he was told by his doc not to dwell on the word. but, he is in denial..hopefully that will pass. he is drinking alot of ginger ale..funny you should say that about the mountain dew..
goody2shuz
01-06-2007, 11:57 PM
Hi, All:wave: Wow....the more I think about it the more active this thread seems to get around the full moon:eek: Am I the only one who has noticed that???
Jules ~ I know how frustrating this all is, but I must agree with Tsohl;) Since I have come on this board she has been my voice of reason especially when I thought that all of this was magically going to be taken care of. Your son is unstable and so l ong as he is he will be unreasonable, irrational, argumentative and distort all that he hears and sees to conform to whatever he needs to in order to fulfill his needs at any given moment. He will not accept that he is bipolar until the meds start to work and he can be reasoned with and is feeling better. Until that time you are best just offering him hope that you will find the right meds.....he will fight you all the way but eventually you will get there.
Tsohl ~ Once again, what you say makes alot of sense. I just overheard Kait on the phone with one of her college friends saying that she had a rotten break because she was grounded the entire week (this is a quite an exaggeration since she only has been home the past 2 days;) ) She heads back tomorrow and is seeking a ride back....if she doesn't get one then she only has to take the ferry and a bus will get her 2 blocks from her dorm. I know that it is quite normal to want to get back to college and the independece that she wants and craves. And I endorse that....but I think that we have made it quite clear that she had her part to do. Kait is a smart girl but sometimes seems to lack common sense and live her life on the edge. THAT really worries me. Erin told me today that she was worried because Kait is leading a guy on at college who is stalking her and even her suitemate is worried about her. Seems that this is the same guy who is inviting her to go to Atlantic City for his 21st birthday. I reassured Erin that I have given Kait advice as her friends have as well and it is up to her to take it all into account when she makes her decisions and that we have to trust that she will make wise ones. So yes, as you have said yourself, I cannot control what happens with Kait at college and only can encourage her to do her art and take responsibility for her own actions. I know that she will fall and the best thing we can do is allow her to start picking herself back up. I don't know if she is Bipolar, if she is it is definitely to a much lesser degree than what I see in Erin. I think as you and Gav have pointed out, that Kait is immature and has some growing up to do. Perhaps I did shelter her, she sure seems to think so, and is trying to find her way in the world. It's just scary watching her do it by taking so many risks in life.
Gav ~ To answer some of your questions...Kait is 33 months older than Erin. As far as family history my maternal grandmother was an alcoholic and in and out of psychiatric centers for manic depression. My husbands father is a recovering alcoholic and his two brothers have been in and out of jail and rehabs for alcohol and drug abuse. I believe that they may have been Bipolar as well but have never been diagnosed. So our family history is significant on both sides. I appreciate all your positive thoughts and insight....I am hopimg like you, that Kait will grow out of this as she matures. As a mother, with the family history I can't help but have my concerns.
Tsohl....Erin is coming down to the wire with the play. The performance will be the second weekend in February and the rehearsals are increasing as the time draws nearer. She doesn't really talk about it much with me but is eager to make the rehearsals. She has been back to school this week and Kait returns tomorrow.
Wow...yes the specialist who will be consulting with my brother's doctors is at Vanderbilt!! I have been pushing for my brother to apply to Vanderbilt for over a year.....we are hoping that the consultation will be taking place sometime this week. How are you familiar with Autonomic Failure??? Yes, as I said, my brother's is far more serious than usual....the doctors where he is treated as well as some from John Hopkins and Cleveland Clinic all have told him they never have seen a case as bad as his. The doctor at Vanderbilt spoke to my mom at length via the phone feels that he can help him. Our entire family has come up with Vanderbilt as possibly being the miracle that we need....and with our persistence his doctors have agreed to work with the doctors at Vanderbilt to see if they can come up with a plan to at least keep his condition from progressing if not reverse some of what it has done to his quality of life. Yes, he is young and he has 6 kids, the youngest who is not yet 3. So our family is really hoping that Vanderbilt will be what finally helps him to find the right meds that will help him.
I am still dragging with this sinus infection....spent most of the day in bed sleeping. I hope everybody else is doing well and that things continue to improve for our kids.
Erin is on her second day of her increase of Lamictal. I ease her into it and do half of the increased amount over a week and then to the whole amount. So she is taking 132.5mgs this week and then will be up to 150mgs next week. She is enjoying having Kait grounded because it gives them more time together. I know that she misses having her big sister around.
Well...goodnight gals:wave:
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Jules ~ I know how frustrating this all is, but I must agree with Tsohl;) Since I have come on this board she has been my voice of reason especially when I thought that all of this was magically going to be taken care of. Your son is unstable and so l ong as he is he will be unreasonable, irrational, argumentative and distort all that he hears and sees to conform to whatever he needs to in order to fulfill his needs at any given moment. He will not accept that he is bipolar until the meds start to work and he can be reasoned with and is feeling better. Until that time you are best just offering him hope that you will find the right meds.....he will fight you all the way but eventually you will get there.
Tsohl ~ Once again, what you say makes alot of sense. I just overheard Kait on the phone with one of her college friends saying that she had a rotten break because she was grounded the entire week (this is a quite an exaggeration since she only has been home the past 2 days;) ) She heads back tomorrow and is seeking a ride back....if she doesn't get one then she only has to take the ferry and a bus will get her 2 blocks from her dorm. I know that it is quite normal to want to get back to college and the independece that she wants and craves. And I endorse that....but I think that we have made it quite clear that she had her part to do. Kait is a smart girl but sometimes seems to lack common sense and live her life on the edge. THAT really worries me. Erin told me today that she was worried because Kait is leading a guy on at college who is stalking her and even her suitemate is worried about her. Seems that this is the same guy who is inviting her to go to Atlantic City for his 21st birthday. I reassured Erin that I have given Kait advice as her friends have as well and it is up to her to take it all into account when she makes her decisions and that we have to trust that she will make wise ones. So yes, as you have said yourself, I cannot control what happens with Kait at college and only can encourage her to do her art and take responsibility for her own actions. I know that she will fall and the best thing we can do is allow her to start picking herself back up. I don't know if she is Bipolar, if she is it is definitely to a much lesser degree than what I see in Erin. I think as you and Gav have pointed out, that Kait is immature and has some growing up to do. Perhaps I did shelter her, she sure seems to think so, and is trying to find her way in the world. It's just scary watching her do it by taking so many risks in life.
Gav ~ To answer some of your questions...Kait is 33 months older than Erin. As far as family history my maternal grandmother was an alcoholic and in and out of psychiatric centers for manic depression. My husbands father is a recovering alcoholic and his two brothers have been in and out of jail and rehabs for alcohol and drug abuse. I believe that they may have been Bipolar as well but have never been diagnosed. So our family history is significant on both sides. I appreciate all your positive thoughts and insight....I am hopimg like you, that Kait will grow out of this as she matures. As a mother, with the family history I can't help but have my concerns.
Tsohl....Erin is coming down to the wire with the play. The performance will be the second weekend in February and the rehearsals are increasing as the time draws nearer. She doesn't really talk about it much with me but is eager to make the rehearsals. She has been back to school this week and Kait returns tomorrow.
Wow...yes the specialist who will be consulting with my brother's doctors is at Vanderbilt!! I have been pushing for my brother to apply to Vanderbilt for over a year.....we are hoping that the consultation will be taking place sometime this week. How are you familiar with Autonomic Failure??? Yes, as I said, my brother's is far more serious than usual....the doctors where he is treated as well as some from John Hopkins and Cleveland Clinic all have told him they never have seen a case as bad as his. The doctor at Vanderbilt spoke to my mom at length via the phone feels that he can help him. Our entire family has come up with Vanderbilt as possibly being the miracle that we need....and with our persistence his doctors have agreed to work with the doctors at Vanderbilt to see if they can come up with a plan to at least keep his condition from progressing if not reverse some of what it has done to his quality of life. Yes, he is young and he has 6 kids, the youngest who is not yet 3. So our family is really hoping that Vanderbilt will be what finally helps him to find the right meds that will help him.
I am still dragging with this sinus infection....spent most of the day in bed sleeping. I hope everybody else is doing well and that things continue to improve for our kids.
Erin is on her second day of her increase of Lamictal. I ease her into it and do half of the increased amount over a week and then to the whole amount. So she is taking 132.5mgs this week and then will be up to 150mgs next week. She is enjoying having Kait grounded because it gives them more time together. I know that she misses having her big sister around.
Well...goodnight gals:wave:
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
01-06-2007, 11:59 PM
ts, sorry. let me clarify a little..he was seeing a doc for almost a year...decided 2 weeks ago that he wanted to see another doc..today we all went back to the 1st doc..who he will stick with..he prescribed lithobid,abilify,klonopin and ambien to sleep.
langlee
01-07-2007, 12:19 AM
Tsohl -I hear you! Baby steps! I know that Zac cannot handle too much at one time. I'm just thankful whenever I see him trying to re-engage with his life.
Jules - It sounds like a whole new regimine of drugs for your son. I'm hoping that this will be a better answer for him.
Goody - I'm praying that the Vanderbilt doctors can help your brother. He is so young and his 6 children and his wife (and you and your family) need him for a long, long time.
Hope
Jules - It sounds like a whole new regimine of drugs for your son. I'm hoping that this will be a better answer for him.
Goody - I'm praying that the Vanderbilt doctors can help your brother. He is so young and his 6 children and his wife (and you and your family) need him for a long, long time.
Hope
tsohl
01-07-2007, 12:40 AM
Hi Jules,
Ok, I knew you couldn't continue on with two separate pdocs! I think that should be a good drug combo if he can tolerate it. Sometimes it sounds very frightening, like it is so many drugs, but when given in combination, they can usually give a lower dose of each drug...and each works on a separate little part of the brain...so an experienced pdoc who knows how to combine meds can be a real life-saver.
I think you'll see a change in his behavior soon. It's a shame your little one had to witness all this. Hopefully some measure of peace will be restored to your home soon.
I can sympathize with your son's feeling that he doesn't want the stigma of being labeled with a mood disorder or a mental illness. Unfortunately, he is correct that it still is a stigma. My son is very careful about who he let's in on his situation...and it's usually on a "need to know" basis. Most of our family doesn't even know. People just change the way they treat you when they find out.
Be sure your son is drinking lots of fluids, preferably water with all these new meds. It is important to stay well-hydrated. All for now. Tsohl
Ok, I knew you couldn't continue on with two separate pdocs! I think that should be a good drug combo if he can tolerate it. Sometimes it sounds very frightening, like it is so many drugs, but when given in combination, they can usually give a lower dose of each drug...and each works on a separate little part of the brain...so an experienced pdoc who knows how to combine meds can be a real life-saver.
I think you'll see a change in his behavior soon. It's a shame your little one had to witness all this. Hopefully some measure of peace will be restored to your home soon.
I can sympathize with your son's feeling that he doesn't want the stigma of being labeled with a mood disorder or a mental illness. Unfortunately, he is correct that it still is a stigma. My son is very careful about who he let's in on his situation...and it's usually on a "need to know" basis. Most of our family doesn't even know. People just change the way they treat you when they find out.
Be sure your son is drinking lots of fluids, preferably water with all these new meds. It is important to stay well-hydrated. All for now. Tsohl
jules3
01-07-2007, 12:59 AM
Yes i already ddi tell him to drink alot of water? does your son have his lithium levels checked and if so how often? doc told my son to get a blood test in 2 weeks..then3 weeks after that..lithium can be toxic.
tsohl
01-07-2007, 01:29 AM
He did go once a month but now that he's been on the same meds and the same amounts for at least six months, he doesn't go as often. I will ask him how often he now goes, as I don't know. It is important at the beginning to have blood drawn often so you know that you are getting the therapeutic dose. Sometimes there are side effects at the beginning, but they often go away within a couple weeks.
tsohl
01-08-2007, 01:14 PM
Good morning everyone,
Here we go, the beginning of another week. I'm just checking in to say hello.
Goody~ Are you feeling better by today? Hope the sinus infection is clearing. Hope you have more peace in your household now that Kait is back at school. I know you will worry about her, but the ball is really in her court and you need to gather your energy for the other issues you have in your life.
After you mentioned your brother's illness several times, I remembered that I knew what it was and that for awhile, they thought my father might have it. Turns out they never figured out what was causing his problems. And I just know Vanderbilt's reputation -- also know several kids who went to college there, etc. They have a strong research program and I often read articles pertaining to one project or another. Sounds like you have the best consultants lined up to try to help your brother. I will pray for his recovery.
Hope ~ How are things with Zac and with your husband? Are they getting along any better? How are Zac's new meds working for him? What have you decided about his schooling? I think of you often and am hoping that Zac is starting to regain his health.
My son is beginning a GRE review class. He will take the exam in March, assuming he feels he is ready. I am increasingly realizing what a perfectionist he is and how much he expects of himself. So far he isn't willing to think about attending a grad school that is anything but one of the top 10 in the country in his area of study. He does not need to create this kind of stress for himself. He could accomplish most of the same things by attending a slightly less difficult program...but he doesn't see it that way. Hmmmm.
So, cyber hugs to all. Hope you all have a peaceful week.
best,
Tsohl
Here we go, the beginning of another week. I'm just checking in to say hello.
Goody~ Are you feeling better by today? Hope the sinus infection is clearing. Hope you have more peace in your household now that Kait is back at school. I know you will worry about her, but the ball is really in her court and you need to gather your energy for the other issues you have in your life.
After you mentioned your brother's illness several times, I remembered that I knew what it was and that for awhile, they thought my father might have it. Turns out they never figured out what was causing his problems. And I just know Vanderbilt's reputation -- also know several kids who went to college there, etc. They have a strong research program and I often read articles pertaining to one project or another. Sounds like you have the best consultants lined up to try to help your brother. I will pray for his recovery.
Hope ~ How are things with Zac and with your husband? Are they getting along any better? How are Zac's new meds working for him? What have you decided about his schooling? I think of you often and am hoping that Zac is starting to regain his health.
My son is beginning a GRE review class. He will take the exam in March, assuming he feels he is ready. I am increasingly realizing what a perfectionist he is and how much he expects of himself. So far he isn't willing to think about attending a grad school that is anything but one of the top 10 in the country in his area of study. He does not need to create this kind of stress for himself. He could accomplish most of the same things by attending a slightly less difficult program...but he doesn't see it that way. Hmmmm.
So, cyber hugs to all. Hope you all have a peaceful week.
best,
Tsohl
langlee
01-08-2007, 07:31 PM
Hi All,
Here's an update from Neverneverland. Zac continues to be in reasonable spirits, no meltdowns, no agression, not a lot of irritability. That's a great thing! But, he is also on such a reduced schedule that I don't know if he is ever going to have anything that resembles a real life. He is still on home instruction and is not motivated at all to sink his teeth into anything. He is constantly saying he doesn't feel well, can he change the tutors, maybe he should drop his AP classes, etc. It's exhausting just to keep up with how often he wants to lower the bar for himself.
He is still having an impossible time sleeping, even with the Seroquel, and is eating at odd times. At 2 AM, he is making meals. He often doesn't fall asleep until 3 or 4 and then doesn't get up until after 1 PM.
He did go to a competition with the high school on Saturday and had a good day. Tonight he was supposed to go to band, but he is sleeping instead. I was feeling so encouraged because he was more himself, but I'm realizing he is more himself with absolutely no real sense of responsibility or commitment. It's not like I'm even worrying about the future. I'm more concerned about the present and how to shake him out of this so he can move on. He really lives day to day right now.
Agh! There are no answers sometimes. Just when I'm feeling better about his mood, I'm shocked into the realization that his life is on hold.
Tsohl- good luck to your son with his GREs.
Jules - How is your son doing with the new meds?
Goody - How are you feeling?
Pippin - Come back! You posted once or twice and then you disappeared again!
Gav - Haven't seen you post for a few days, but I know you are out there!
Love,
Hope
Here's an update from Neverneverland. Zac continues to be in reasonable spirits, no meltdowns, no agression, not a lot of irritability. That's a great thing! But, he is also on such a reduced schedule that I don't know if he is ever going to have anything that resembles a real life. He is still on home instruction and is not motivated at all to sink his teeth into anything. He is constantly saying he doesn't feel well, can he change the tutors, maybe he should drop his AP classes, etc. It's exhausting just to keep up with how often he wants to lower the bar for himself.
He is still having an impossible time sleeping, even with the Seroquel, and is eating at odd times. At 2 AM, he is making meals. He often doesn't fall asleep until 3 or 4 and then doesn't get up until after 1 PM.
He did go to a competition with the high school on Saturday and had a good day. Tonight he was supposed to go to band, but he is sleeping instead. I was feeling so encouraged because he was more himself, but I'm realizing he is more himself with absolutely no real sense of responsibility or commitment. It's not like I'm even worrying about the future. I'm more concerned about the present and how to shake him out of this so he can move on. He really lives day to day right now.
Agh! There are no answers sometimes. Just when I'm feeling better about his mood, I'm shocked into the realization that his life is on hold.
Tsohl- good luck to your son with his GREs.
Jules - How is your son doing with the new meds?
Goody - How are you feeling?
Pippin - Come back! You posted once or twice and then you disappeared again!
Gav - Haven't seen you post for a few days, but I know you are out there!
Love,
Hope
jules3
01-08-2007, 07:42 PM
Hope he started lihobid today. same as lithium right? abilify 2 nights ago..stopped the seroquel. it did cause weight gain,that upset him a great deal. He too, is making meals 2am..having a real hard time sleeping..taking klonopin and ambien to sleep..can you imagine? we give him 3 klonopin a day, not the whole bottle..he has alot of anxiety and they help tremendously. Hope, can i ask you an honest question? do you sometimes look at your son and say to yourself hes so crazy, will he ever be normal? Im so not a mean person, i love him so much..why am i thinking these thoughts?
I am having a hard time dealing with this..i know i need some support, im just not ready to talk about this to strangers..i will at my own pace..thats why i come here to talk! it makes me feel like hes not the only one out there with this disorder..but, truthfully, there are not too many people on this board. hopefully, its because most bipolar people are doing ok on meds...you think?..The doc told me if he stays on the meds he will be a new man in 2 weeks. what do you think about that? Regarding zac, please keep in mind that he is only 16 yrs old..thats to his advantage. he will probably be stable and great at 20 likes ts's son. Thanks for asking talk more later!
I am having a hard time dealing with this..i know i need some support, im just not ready to talk about this to strangers..i will at my own pace..thats why i come here to talk! it makes me feel like hes not the only one out there with this disorder..but, truthfully, there are not too many people on this board. hopefully, its because most bipolar people are doing ok on meds...you think?..The doc told me if he stays on the meds he will be a new man in 2 weeks. what do you think about that? Regarding zac, please keep in mind that he is only 16 yrs old..thats to his advantage. he will probably be stable and great at 20 likes ts's son. Thanks for asking talk more later!
goody2shuz
01-08-2007, 09:14 PM
Hi, Gals:wave: Thanks for the positive vibes....I am still dragging, have very little energy. I find myself sleeping most of the day and up for an hour at a time and then just back in bed again. I haven't been laid up like this in years....I think that Erin realized this because she has been bringing me liquids and asking if I am feeling better...it is nice to see her concerned about me for once and I must say that these last few weeks I have seen Erin getting more and more towards the young girl that she was before this disorder invaded our lives. When we were away with my family, many who had seen her when she was really bad commented on how good she looks. My cousin's wife who had heard about her diagnosis told my Aunt that if you hadn't told her she wouldn't think anything was wrong with Erin. So I think that we have finally turned that corner (I always get so scared saying that because everytime I have, something else happens to discredit it:rolleyes: ) but I am going to hold onto the hopes that we are doing well and c loser to stabilization.
Erin is more excited about the play and she came home all thrilled and happy telling us that she was chosen by the music director at school to compete in All State NYSMMA at the highest level.:blob_fire This is a vocal solo in which she is graded by a statae representative from the music association. It is quite an honor to be chosen and Erin was quite excited when the music director handed her the application that she needs to submit.
Jules, there IS hope and there was a time when I wondered whether Erin will ever lead a normal life and here I am telling you that things are good. Looking back I don't know how we ever survived but we did. I recall the therapist telling me to look forward...looking back will only hold us all back and have us living in fear. When I first came here I didn't even think we would ever be where we are with Erin, just as Tsohl.;) I wanted my child back and wondered, like you ,if I would ever see her again and here she is......it was a long journey and it's not over yet but things are good, they really are.
Hope ~ I am sorry that Zac is setting his bars so low...Erin seems to be doing that as well. I think that he will become more functional as he becomes more stabilized. Looking back on things, my expectations of Erin have definitely changed.....I don't really care what she decides to do with her life so long as she is feeling good about herself and her life. I think that once I lowered the bar in my mind to focusing on her emotional and mental well being things did improve and once she did feel better she began to start getting back into the swing of life. She still doesn't think school is the most important thing in life and I have come to see that as well. My heart swelled when just the other day she said out of the blue how she thinks that her self esteem is getting better and that she was beginning to like herself again. I had waited so long to hear something like that and that was a sign that things were getting better. I know that you will be seeing the same with Zac once the right meds are in place.
Tsohl ~ I know how you fear that your son will take on too much after coming so far but I think that he should do what he thinks he can do....he can always alter his schedule and take less of a load. Sometimes the distractions can be good for our kids so long as they don't consume them. Perhaps your son knows that staying focused on something is what he needs most....look at Gav, she is doing so well and has taken on quite a load. Funny how we are able to have others here who are on this journey in different places to let us know that there is hope in all of this. When I was at the pdoc Friday I looked at all the people coming in and they for the most part appeared to be perfectly normal. Erin even commented on that on our way home and I told her with the right meds and treatment she will be leading a perfectly normal life. I asked her if she felt better compared to last year and she looked at me and said....."Mom, last year was a nightmare and I don't ever want to go back there again!!" I smiled and told her that I totally agreed!!:D
As far as my brother, he is still in the hospital and they still beleive he is in acute renal failure and are hoping to get him through that. We are still awaiting word from his main doctor regarding the consultation with Vanderbilt...whether he has spoken with them or has an appointment to remains to be seen. Hopefully we will have some more info on that soon.
Thanks for all the positive vibes....you guys are the greatest.
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Erin is more excited about the play and she came home all thrilled and happy telling us that she was chosen by the music director at school to compete in All State NYSMMA at the highest level.:blob_fire This is a vocal solo in which she is graded by a statae representative from the music association. It is quite an honor to be chosen and Erin was quite excited when the music director handed her the application that she needs to submit.
Jules, there IS hope and there was a time when I wondered whether Erin will ever lead a normal life and here I am telling you that things are good. Looking back I don't know how we ever survived but we did. I recall the therapist telling me to look forward...looking back will only hold us all back and have us living in fear. When I first came here I didn't even think we would ever be where we are with Erin, just as Tsohl.;) I wanted my child back and wondered, like you ,if I would ever see her again and here she is......it was a long journey and it's not over yet but things are good, they really are.
Hope ~ I am sorry that Zac is setting his bars so low...Erin seems to be doing that as well. I think that he will become more functional as he becomes more stabilized. Looking back on things, my expectations of Erin have definitely changed.....I don't really care what she decides to do with her life so long as she is feeling good about herself and her life. I think that once I lowered the bar in my mind to focusing on her emotional and mental well being things did improve and once she did feel better she began to start getting back into the swing of life. She still doesn't think school is the most important thing in life and I have come to see that as well. My heart swelled when just the other day she said out of the blue how she thinks that her self esteem is getting better and that she was beginning to like herself again. I had waited so long to hear something like that and that was a sign that things were getting better. I know that you will be seeing the same with Zac once the right meds are in place.
Tsohl ~ I know how you fear that your son will take on too much after coming so far but I think that he should do what he thinks he can do....he can always alter his schedule and take less of a load. Sometimes the distractions can be good for our kids so long as they don't consume them. Perhaps your son knows that staying focused on something is what he needs most....look at Gav, she is doing so well and has taken on quite a load. Funny how we are able to have others here who are on this journey in different places to let us know that there is hope in all of this. When I was at the pdoc Friday I looked at all the people coming in and they for the most part appeared to be perfectly normal. Erin even commented on that on our way home and I told her with the right meds and treatment she will be leading a perfectly normal life. I asked her if she felt better compared to last year and she looked at me and said....."Mom, last year was a nightmare and I don't ever want to go back there again!!" I smiled and told her that I totally agreed!!:D
As far as my brother, he is still in the hospital and they still beleive he is in acute renal failure and are hoping to get him through that. We are still awaiting word from his main doctor regarding the consultation with Vanderbilt...whether he has spoken with them or has an appointment to remains to be seen. Hopefully we will have some more info on that soon.
Thanks for all the positive vibes....you guys are the greatest.
Love ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
tsohl
01-08-2007, 10:34 PM
Jules ~ Just a little correction: my son isn't "great." He too will never be the person we thought he'd be back in high school. As Goody just said in her most recent post, we had to adjust our expectations. And, in reality, at this point we do not know if he'll be able to support himself and hold down a full-time job. We haven't been pushing to find out at this point. We're allowing him to take things slowly and get his feet back under himself. As I said awhile ago, I really feel you go through the same process as when someone dies; there is a sense of loss and you go through a bit of a grieving process. It has been almost two years since the episode which I think of as his "hitting bottom." The six months after that were really hell -- the six months of feeling like I'd been kicked in the stomach--the resolute terror I'd feel whenever the phone would ring when I wasn't expecting a call...that sort of thing. After that there was a bit of an epiphany where he decided he wanted to get well...and it's been up hill ever since. We're babying him a bit now, letting him move at his pace rather than forcing him to get a full time job and support himself...but I am confidant he'll get there in the near future. He's great compared to the way he was 2 years ago!! And yes, two years ago he was so crazy scary I didn't know him. My husband and I were almost in shock when we saw him that day -- his pupils completely dilated, talking, but making no sense, unable to walk normally --this wasn't the son we'd known for 22 years...but, it was. And now he has recovered, regained his sense of humor, and almost all of his life.
So, try not to be scared. This is all new to you and it is VERY scary. But I bet the worst is over and things will get better. As long as your son will be compliant in taking his meds as prescribed, he has a very good chance of regaining his health and his stability. If some of these meds don't work or have too severe side effects, there will be others he can try. And while now is not the time to talk about this, there is some exciting new research being done on new treatments for bipolar that was announced at the NAMI convention last June....I think all our children will benefit from it some day. So there is much hope.
My advice to you at this point is to try not to have expectations. Be open and supportive and resolute in your love. Things will work out. best, Tsohl
So, try not to be scared. This is all new to you and it is VERY scary. But I bet the worst is over and things will get better. As long as your son will be compliant in taking his meds as prescribed, he has a very good chance of regaining his health and his stability. If some of these meds don't work or have too severe side effects, there will be others he can try. And while now is not the time to talk about this, there is some exciting new research being done on new treatments for bipolar that was announced at the NAMI convention last June....I think all our children will benefit from it some day. So there is much hope.
My advice to you at this point is to try not to have expectations. Be open and supportive and resolute in your love. Things will work out. best, Tsohl
jules3
01-08-2007, 11:09 PM
Ts--maybe i should use the stable..because really thats all we want right now for my son.. when i read your post, i totally feel the same. I will have to lower my expectations a lttle..my husband and i are coming to realize that. Is there any family history? The doc told me its biological..other than my great-uncle having mental issues..we cant figure out how this happened? Does every bipolar person have to inherit this from a family memember? Does there have to be a reason for episodes to occur? does there have to be a trigger? I know you are not a doc, but you are always hitting the nail on the head..
jules3
01-08-2007, 11:14 PM
Jeez sorry ts..i meant maybe i should use the word stable
tsohl
01-09-2007, 03:04 AM
I'll try to answer a couple of your questions. They say to take a look at your family and there will be someone, parents, grandparents, siblings that are bipolar OR at least struggling with depression, or alcohol or drug abuse. If not immediate family, it can be an uncle or cousin, etc. There is almost always someone--there is a genetic link to bipolar disorder. But instead of there just being one gene that "carries" the disorder, there are probably many genes that have the possibility to cause the disorder when subjected to outside or environmental influences--like drug abuse, stress, antidepressants, etc. It's like the genes have the potential to become destructive when subjected to certain things that put the process into motion. Apparently the brain is literally changed by bipolar disorder -- its shape, chemistry and the way it handles signals...just like in other diseases of the brain. But rather than affect memory or the way you move, it affects emotion and thought. I'll write more tomorrow. My computer is acting weird and I don't want to lose this!! Hope some of this makes sense. best, Tsohl
jules3
01-09-2007, 09:17 AM
Wow, you were up late last night..Yes, you answered some questions for me..I keep learning from you..I do read alot about bipolar online and books..But i understand it more coming from you. My mom grandfather and my sister suffer occasionally from depression..i had postpartum depression when my daughter was born 18 yrs ago and take antidepressants on and off over the years. nobody with bipolar. do you remember your son saying anything to you when he started lithium about side effects? my son said he was feeling kinda drugged..but its all brand new for him. needs time and some sleep.
tsohl
01-09-2007, 11:30 AM
As I understand it, the same genes that allow you to have depression, can also cause bipolar with the right stressors...it is all a matter of biochemistry of the brain, the way the signals pass down the neurons, etc....in the same way that things go haywire in the brain of someone with M.S. or even Parkinson's, this is what has happened with the brains of our kids.
Now to the lithium: My son was on lithium almost two years before I knew about it!! From what he tells me, there is a period of adjustment. Give it a couple weeks and he should feel better. How soon after beginning lithium does your son have the first bloodwork done? That will measure whether this dose is too much or too little. Encourage him to hang in there. If he can take lithium, it really is the old workhorse of the meds -- it is less expensive than the newer drugs and it works really well in those that can take it. In our son's case, he needed something in addition to lithium. I'd say the lithium worked to about 85%. When the additional drugs were added, he got to where he is today, which I consider about 99%.
Now to the lithium: My son was on lithium almost two years before I knew about it!! From what he tells me, there is a period of adjustment. Give it a couple weeks and he should feel better. How soon after beginning lithium does your son have the first bloodwork done? That will measure whether this dose is too much or too little. Encourage him to hang in there. If he can take lithium, it really is the old workhorse of the meds -- it is less expensive than the newer drugs and it works really well in those that can take it. In our son's case, he needed something in addition to lithium. I'd say the lithium worked to about 85%. When the additional drugs were added, he got to where he is today, which I consider about 99%.
jules3
01-09-2007, 12:14 PM
He will need a bloodtest in 2 weeks . pharmacist told me lithium is on the market over 50 yrs and works..and is cheap..but my son is on lithobid, which is a newer lithium because its time released . therefore its not so cheap..its a 55$ co-pay. about 100$ with no insurance. He is saying he doesnt like the abilify..causing headaches..
langlee
01-09-2007, 01:27 PM
Hi All,
Jules - in answer to your question - Yes, I look at Zac many times and ask myself the same thing you do. This is so much harder than I anticipated it would be.
Today I need all of your perspectives becasue I am truly beginning to feel there is no hope and I can't live like that. The person Zac is when he is out of control is so foreign to me that I grasp on to any glimmer of his old self that I can find. I know it impacts my parenting because I don't want to say or do anything that might ruffle him and cause his outbursts.
Last night my husband decided to bring up some issues. As I said in yesterday's post, we have been living in Neverneverland where there is absolutely no pressure. We are concerned that Zac is up all night, sleeping all day, and although on home instruction, shows no interest is school. One of the issues we've had with Zac is that when he is up at night, he is on the computer talking to other night-owl friends, and we have said very clearly that is not acceptable, especially during the week. For awhile we were able to have him give us his laptop at 12 AM, but he has slipped. When my husband brought up that, now that the holidays are over and he should back in a school routine so the computer has to been handed over at 12 AM, Zac went ballistic! He would not even discuss it!
What ensued was lots of verbal abuse and Zac ended up kicking a hole in my living room wall. My husband has had it! He is ready to call a Tough Love place and have Zac taken away in the middle of the night. I am worn out. I feel like I have spent so much time and energy trying to help Zac get his life, any life, back and he is not really working with us.
Am I wrong to think he should have some semblance of a school day? Should we just give in, forget this year, and let him do whatever he wants, with absolutely no stress, as long as he stays out of trouble? But, that's a problem, too, because he gets in trouble when he's bored. He confessed last night that the night his heart was racing, he had relapsed. Why? Because he was bored. Here I was telling everyone that I really didn't think it was drug-related and it was!
One of my other concerns is that he appears to be giving up. He says he doesn't care anymore about anything, that this has gone on too long, that he doesn't care what happens to him anymore. I told him that I fear he is going to die young and he says he probably will.
Is it meds at this point or just behavioral or what? We have an appointment today with a therapist who is experienced at dual diagnosis and runs a local rehab group. I am hoping to get some insight from him.
Once again, things are a mess. Zac and my husband are in an awful place, my husband wants to send him away, Zac doesn't care if he lives or dies, and I am feeliing hopeless. I HATE THIS!
Any thoughts?
Love,
Hope
PS Goody, in my own misery, I didn't want to lose sight of how happy I am for you and Erin. She sounds like she is doing well and you both deserve it! Congrats on the vocal selection!
Jules - in answer to your question - Yes, I look at Zac many times and ask myself the same thing you do. This is so much harder than I anticipated it would be.
Today I need all of your perspectives becasue I am truly beginning to feel there is no hope and I can't live like that. The person Zac is when he is out of control is so foreign to me that I grasp on to any glimmer of his old self that I can find. I know it impacts my parenting because I don't want to say or do anything that might ruffle him and cause his outbursts.
Last night my husband decided to bring up some issues. As I said in yesterday's post, we have been living in Neverneverland where there is absolutely no pressure. We are concerned that Zac is up all night, sleeping all day, and although on home instruction, shows no interest is school. One of the issues we've had with Zac is that when he is up at night, he is on the computer talking to other night-owl friends, and we have said very clearly that is not acceptable, especially during the week. For awhile we were able to have him give us his laptop at 12 AM, but he has slipped. When my husband brought up that, now that the holidays are over and he should back in a school routine so the computer has to been handed over at 12 AM, Zac went ballistic! He would not even discuss it!
What ensued was lots of verbal abuse and Zac ended up kicking a hole in my living room wall. My husband has had it! He is ready to call a Tough Love place and have Zac taken away in the middle of the night. I am worn out. I feel like I have spent so much time and energy trying to help Zac get his life, any life, back and he is not really working with us.
Am I wrong to think he should have some semblance of a school day? Should we just give in, forget this year, and let him do whatever he wants, with absolutely no stress, as long as he stays out of trouble? But, that's a problem, too, because he gets in trouble when he's bored. He confessed last night that the night his heart was racing, he had relapsed. Why? Because he was bored. Here I was telling everyone that I really didn't think it was drug-related and it was!
One of my other concerns is that he appears to be giving up. He says he doesn't care anymore about anything, that this has gone on too long, that he doesn't care what happens to him anymore. I told him that I fear he is going to die young and he says he probably will.
Is it meds at this point or just behavioral or what? We have an appointment today with a therapist who is experienced at dual diagnosis and runs a local rehab group. I am hoping to get some insight from him.
Once again, things are a mess. Zac and my husband are in an awful place, my husband wants to send him away, Zac doesn't care if he lives or dies, and I am feeliing hopeless. I HATE THIS!
Any thoughts?
Love,
Hope
PS Goody, in my own misery, I didn't want to lose sight of how happy I am for you and Erin. She sounds like she is doing well and you both deserve it! Congrats on the vocal selection!
tsohl
01-09-2007, 01:45 PM
Hi Hope,
Hang in there, Hope. Personally I am a chicken when it comes to tough love. I have seen too many cases where a child has fled. Personally I don't see how you can help your child, if you don't even know where they are. Tough love may work well in a case where a kid has an attitude problem, but in your son's case, it is biochemical. When his neurons are messed up by the bipolar, the thought circuits are disrupted or rewired, and as a result, his thoughts and behavior are changed. He is not intentionally behaving in a particular way, and further, to him, what he is saying or doing is rational and logical.
No, you can't let a child destroy your home. But there has to be some way to work this out. Your son and husband are like oil and water and they each make each other worse.
I am very happy you have an appt today. Is this someone new to you? IF so, be sure to determine what his experience with bipolar is. Too often in dual diagnosis, their main expertise is in the addiction and recovery and they lump the other diagnoses all together...which is my nice way of saying they don't really understand bipolar....
I'm going to send this now in case you're still on the board...but I'm going to keep thinking about what you've said and writing more....love, Tsohl
Hang in there, Hope. Personally I am a chicken when it comes to tough love. I have seen too many cases where a child has fled. Personally I don't see how you can help your child, if you don't even know where they are. Tough love may work well in a case where a kid has an attitude problem, but in your son's case, it is biochemical. When his neurons are messed up by the bipolar, the thought circuits are disrupted or rewired, and as a result, his thoughts and behavior are changed. He is not intentionally behaving in a particular way, and further, to him, what he is saying or doing is rational and logical.
No, you can't let a child destroy your home. But there has to be some way to work this out. Your son and husband are like oil and water and they each make each other worse.
I am very happy you have an appt today. Is this someone new to you? IF so, be sure to determine what his experience with bipolar is. Too often in dual diagnosis, their main expertise is in the addiction and recovery and they lump the other diagnoses all together...which is my nice way of saying they don't really understand bipolar....
I'm going to send this now in case you're still on the board...but I'm going to keep thinking about what you've said and writing more....love, Tsohl
tsohl
01-09-2007, 02:06 PM
Hi Hope,
You are very discouraged at the moment, but you must just dig in a bit harder. I am guessing that the meds that Zac is on aren't quite right. He probably has too much of one and not enough of another because he shouldn't feel depressed to the point that he doesn't care about anything.
Just as you and Goody both initially thought that you'd take your child into a pdoc, get some meds, maybe a little therapy and everything would magically be ok, Zac probably is thinking that way, too. He probably feels, "hey, I'm cooperating; I'm going to the pdoc who gave me meds that are supposed to make me feel better; I'm taking them; I want to feel better; I don't feel better. The meds aren't working; I'll never feel better; why am I doing this? Life is crap..."
While I don't think a boot camp is right for Zac, I think it might be helpful if you could find the kind of school that a friend of my son's went to. Zac needs to be in some sort of academic setting, even if he is taking one or two courses and getting some help in dealing with all his issues at the same time.
Hopefully the therapist today might know of some programs in your area where he could go as a day patient, or perhaps if things are really at an impasses between him and your husband, maybe a boarding school type situation would be better until summer....these are just a couple ideas off the top of my head.
Hope, you have to be the strong one at the moment. There is help out there for Zac, and I feel sure he will ultimately come through all this and will be able to go on and live a productive, enjoyable life. It's just really tough right now. Zac can't look beyond how he's feeling right now. It's up to you to look ahead and hold things together. It will get easier...look at Goody and how much trouble she was having with Erin just a couple months ago, and now things are manageable. It will get easier when the right meds, combo of meds, dosage of meds are found-- Take a deep breath. Write down what you what to accomplish with your meeting, and have faith that you'll be able to pull your family through this. Love, Tsohl
You are very discouraged at the moment, but you must just dig in a bit harder. I am guessing that the meds that Zac is on aren't quite right. He probably has too much of one and not enough of another because he shouldn't feel depressed to the point that he doesn't care about anything.
Just as you and Goody both initially thought that you'd take your child into a pdoc, get some meds, maybe a little therapy and everything would magically be ok, Zac probably is thinking that way, too. He probably feels, "hey, I'm cooperating; I'm going to the pdoc who gave me meds that are supposed to make me feel better; I'm taking them; I want to feel better; I don't feel better. The meds aren't working; I'll never feel better; why am I doing this? Life is crap..."
While I don't think a boot camp is right for Zac, I think it might be helpful if you could find the kind of school that a friend of my son's went to. Zac needs to be in some sort of academic setting, even if he is taking one or two courses and getting some help in dealing with all his issues at the same time.
Hopefully the therapist today might know of some programs in your area where he could go as a day patient, or perhaps if things are really at an impasses between him and your husband, maybe a boarding school type situation would be better until summer....these are just a couple ideas off the top of my head.
Hope, you have to be the strong one at the moment. There is help out there for Zac, and I feel sure he will ultimately come through all this and will be able to go on and live a productive, enjoyable life. It's just really tough right now. Zac can't look beyond how he's feeling right now. It's up to you to look ahead and hold things together. It will get easier...look at Goody and how much trouble she was having with Erin just a couple months ago, and now things are manageable. It will get easier when the right meds, combo of meds, dosage of meds are found-- Take a deep breath. Write down what you what to accomplish with your meeting, and have faith that you'll be able to pull your family through this. Love, Tsohl
goody2shuz
01-09-2007, 02:50 PM
((((((HUGS))))))) from NY all the way to NJ!!!!:angel:
Hope, we have all been in your shoes at one point where we didn't hold out much hope for things getting better. The decisions that lay before you will be difficult ones but the first thing that comes to mind when I am reading about Zacs giving up is that he has lost hope in getting better because he doesn't have the right meds in place. And so long as he doesn't then things will not get better.
Now what I am about to say may scare you but I feel I need to because another thing that concerns me is Zacs use of drugs. Erin has been there too and the night that I got the call from her volleyball team friends that she was high, that night she said and acted much like Zac. She said that she didn't care about anything, that all that she wanted to be was be numb and to forget about everything. That she didn't think that she was going to live very long anyway....the things she was saying were quite disturbing. She was angry and upset and then told us that she wanted to kill herself. That was when we ended up back at the hospital. I think that when our kids use the drugs while we are trying to find the right ones it only makes things worse. Are you sure that Zac isn't using anything?? You say that he is up at 2am, could he be drinking or getting into something else in the household?? I only bring this up because of what I saw in Erin after she had smoked weed and what you describe sounds very similar to the behavior Erin demonstrated after smoking weed. I think that this may be something you may wish to look further into.
Hope...when I was in your shoes and found myself feeling extremely helpless my husband and I had to make the most didfficult decision and that was to have Erin hospitalized in a long term facility where she would be observed more closely and be in a structured environment. It was the hardest thing and yet the best thing that we could have done for her at the time.
I think that at the very least, Zac needs to be in a therapeutic setting where he will be closely monitored and be in a structured environment where he will have to meet up to basic responsibilities whether they be taking care of his own physical and emotional needs as well as be in an academic setting where he will have responsibilities there as well. It won't be forever but something that he just may need at this time. If you could get him into a day program that's great but I wouldn't even rule out a program in which he is admitted for a period of time. You will still be very much involved and it will be a sacrifice which will be a stepping stone to his getting better. If Zac is up at 2am and cannot be monitored and things are not getting better or be managed in the home it is time to go onto the next plan even if it is something we never thought we could do. Having Erin in the psychiatric hospital for 10 weeks was not easy. But all three of us to this day say that is what finally got her on the road to recovery. As much as she fought it and begged us to take her home we had an agreement that we would only take her home when the doctors, us and her all felt she was ready to come home. And we stuck it out.
In answer to your questions....even when in crisis somebody who is Bipolar cannot just be expected to not function and llive up to responsibilities. Sure some accommodations should be put in place but still the best thing that can be done is to have him/her do what they can do in terms of everyday respinsibilities. That is why a therapeutic setting may be good for Zac....he will be required to do certain things and if he doesn't he will not earn enough points to do others that he wants to do. If Zac has the time to spend on the computer he certainly has time to do some schoolwork. He just wants things to be his way which is big when our kids are unstable and will go to almost any means of getting it even if it means kicking in the wall.
He is unstable, Hope, and until the proper meds are in place he will continue to be this way. You and your husband must come to some compromise for the sake of Zac's overall success. This all takes it's toll on the strongest of marriages....ou mustn't allow this to come between you and your husband...you are on the same team and want Zac to get better. Now you need to figure out together how you are going to go about doing that.
We are here for you Hope....it will get better even though right now you feel that it won't. There are many of us here that have been where you are and can tell you that because things are better. So don't give up hope.....hope is what you need to get through these tough moments and Zac needs to hear from you his parents that you do have hope that he will get better. And if you ever need a replenishment of hope you know where to come....right???;)
(((((HUGS)))))) because to day you need them ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Hope, we have all been in your shoes at one point where we didn't hold out much hope for things getting better. The decisions that lay before you will be difficult ones but the first thing that comes to mind when I am reading about Zacs giving up is that he has lost hope in getting better because he doesn't have the right meds in place. And so long as he doesn't then things will not get better.
Now what I am about to say may scare you but I feel I need to because another thing that concerns me is Zacs use of drugs. Erin has been there too and the night that I got the call from her volleyball team friends that she was high, that night she said and acted much like Zac. She said that she didn't care about anything, that all that she wanted to be was be numb and to forget about everything. That she didn't think that she was going to live very long anyway....the things she was saying were quite disturbing. She was angry and upset and then told us that she wanted to kill herself. That was when we ended up back at the hospital. I think that when our kids use the drugs while we are trying to find the right ones it only makes things worse. Are you sure that Zac isn't using anything?? You say that he is up at 2am, could he be drinking or getting into something else in the household?? I only bring this up because of what I saw in Erin after she had smoked weed and what you describe sounds very similar to the behavior Erin demonstrated after smoking weed. I think that this may be something you may wish to look further into.
Hope...when I was in your shoes and found myself feeling extremely helpless my husband and I had to make the most didfficult decision and that was to have Erin hospitalized in a long term facility where she would be observed more closely and be in a structured environment. It was the hardest thing and yet the best thing that we could have done for her at the time.
I think that at the very least, Zac needs to be in a therapeutic setting where he will be closely monitored and be in a structured environment where he will have to meet up to basic responsibilities whether they be taking care of his own physical and emotional needs as well as be in an academic setting where he will have responsibilities there as well. It won't be forever but something that he just may need at this time. If you could get him into a day program that's great but I wouldn't even rule out a program in which he is admitted for a period of time. You will still be very much involved and it will be a sacrifice which will be a stepping stone to his getting better. If Zac is up at 2am and cannot be monitored and things are not getting better or be managed in the home it is time to go onto the next plan even if it is something we never thought we could do. Having Erin in the psychiatric hospital for 10 weeks was not easy. But all three of us to this day say that is what finally got her on the road to recovery. As much as she fought it and begged us to take her home we had an agreement that we would only take her home when the doctors, us and her all felt she was ready to come home. And we stuck it out.
In answer to your questions....even when in crisis somebody who is Bipolar cannot just be expected to not function and llive up to responsibilities. Sure some accommodations should be put in place but still the best thing that can be done is to have him/her do what they can do in terms of everyday respinsibilities. That is why a therapeutic setting may be good for Zac....he will be required to do certain things and if he doesn't he will not earn enough points to do others that he wants to do. If Zac has the time to spend on the computer he certainly has time to do some schoolwork. He just wants things to be his way which is big when our kids are unstable and will go to almost any means of getting it even if it means kicking in the wall.
He is unstable, Hope, and until the proper meds are in place he will continue to be this way. You and your husband must come to some compromise for the sake of Zac's overall success. This all takes it's toll on the strongest of marriages....ou mustn't allow this to come between you and your husband...you are on the same team and want Zac to get better. Now you need to figure out together how you are going to go about doing that.
We are here for you Hope....it will get better even though right now you feel that it won't. There are many of us here that have been where you are and can tell you that because things are better. So don't give up hope.....hope is what you need to get through these tough moments and Zac needs to hear from you his parents that you do have hope that he will get better. And if you ever need a replenishment of hope you know where to come....right???;)
(((((HUGS)))))) because to day you need them ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
01-09-2007, 04:26 PM
Oh Hope, im so sorry you are going thru this because i know how it feels. last week we took the car keys away from my son and he broke the window in my living room..he was so self-absorbed trying to get what he wanted,he didnt care what he was breaking. About the drugs, i have seen my son look like hes on drugs when hes in a bad way..done a drug test and its been negative. sometimes they look and act so wild,it truley looks like a drug addict.Do you drug test him? I do believe he needs some kind of academic setting..just have no solutions..my son is in his 3rd year of college. Probably not going back this coming semester. I cant help but wonder if half this stuff is made worse before they are so spoiled..im sure that crossed your mind too.
it is so difficult,my son is on abilify,lithobid and klonopin for anxiety...he said the klonopins definitly help..i see him getting worse when he is bored too. my husband just prays, i am consumed with this,and i know i shoudnt be..i need time to adjust to the whole situation.
it is so difficult,my son is on abilify,lithobid and klonopin for anxiety...he said the klonopins definitly help..i see him getting worse when he is bored too. my husband just prays, i am consumed with this,and i know i shoudnt be..i need time to adjust to the whole situation.
langlee
01-09-2007, 11:03 PM
Thanks to all of you for your support. We are definitely going to have to do something. As good as Zac is when he's good, is how abusive and aggressive he is when he's not good.
Goody, what kind of facility did Erin go to for the 10 weeks? When Zac was inpatient, they talked about Residential Treatment Centers, but really didn't have any good suggestions and said they were VERY expensive (to the tune of $15,000-$20,000/month). The other issue is that in NJ, it has to be voluntary. So, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Tsohl, I'd also love your comments about the dual diagnosis facilities. I don't want to make a misstep here, but it's obvious to me that we are losing precious time and Zac is, at best, treading water, if not slipping further backwards.
We did meet with the therapist today who specializes in addiction/bipolar. We won't get to talk with him until next week, but Zac liked him. The reason we went to him is that the school was suggesting Zac needed to go back to intensive rehab (we' re still struggling to get him classifed) and neither the therapist (who runs a rehab after-school program), nor we thought that Zac would benefit from that. So, I'm getting yet another perspective in the myriad of conflicting perspectives I have.
I am so disheartened tonight. When Zac is like this, I really can't even relate. He is an entirely different person and it is impossible to have a conversation with him. He lies, he is manipulative, he is surly, he is abusive, and he is emotionally dead. Who is this person and how does this happen?
I look forward to hearing from all of you. Thanks for your ongoing support.
Love,
Hope
Goody, what kind of facility did Erin go to for the 10 weeks? When Zac was inpatient, they talked about Residential Treatment Centers, but really didn't have any good suggestions and said they were VERY expensive (to the tune of $15,000-$20,000/month). The other issue is that in NJ, it has to be voluntary. So, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Tsohl, I'd also love your comments about the dual diagnosis facilities. I don't want to make a misstep here, but it's obvious to me that we are losing precious time and Zac is, at best, treading water, if not slipping further backwards.
We did meet with the therapist today who specializes in addiction/bipolar. We won't get to talk with him until next week, but Zac liked him. The reason we went to him is that the school was suggesting Zac needed to go back to intensive rehab (we' re still struggling to get him classifed) and neither the therapist (who runs a rehab after-school program), nor we thought that Zac would benefit from that. So, I'm getting yet another perspective in the myriad of conflicting perspectives I have.
I am so disheartened tonight. When Zac is like this, I really can't even relate. He is an entirely different person and it is impossible to have a conversation with him. He lies, he is manipulative, he is surly, he is abusive, and he is emotionally dead. Who is this person and how does this happen?
I look forward to hearing from all of you. Thanks for your ongoing support.
Love,
Hope
jules3
01-09-2007, 11:08 PM
Insurance covers the cost of treatment centers.. zac does have insurance, doesnt he? Hes only 16 right? would you consider bringing him to n.y. for treatment? Zucker Hillside hospital is a dual-diagnosis center. Why dont you give them a call?
goody2shuz
01-09-2007, 11:34 PM
Hope ~ It seems as if the meeting didn't really help out too much in terms of helping you formulate a plan for Zac. I KNOW that the cost of treatment is so extreme and we were thinking that we may have to incur those costs and back then I was prepared to looking at it from the perspective that I would much rather use Erin's college savings to get her wanting to live and feel better than herself than allow this to go on where she may not even be around to go to college.
Our lucky break came when she was on charges for her shoplifting (this occurred during her manic state) and when she went before the judge he mandated her to be admitted and have a full psychiatric evaluation at an adolescent psychiatric center about and hour from our home. This facility was one I had been looking into for her but in order to get a bed there you would have to be hospitalized for at least 2 weeks and then be placed on a waiting list. After 3 hospitalizations within 3 months you would think that we were eligible. And then our big break came when the judge sent her there and she came back to court every 2 weeks to reevalute the need to stay on and finally we all felt she was ready to be discharged home after the 10 weeks. Since it was mandated by the state they exhausted our insurance and then medicaid picked it up. We were extremely fortunate.
Is there any long term psychiatric center for adolescents that you know of in your area??? My other suggestion is that if your school cannot provide for Zac and deems him needing a more therapeutic environment then they would have to pay for those provisions since they cannot provide them. It is Zac's legal right to be educated. The center where Erin was at were thinking that she may need a therapeutic day center after her discharge but would have had to classify her. Since she was attending school throughout the summer at the facility and doing so well they thought that she would be able to handle going back to school with some provisions in place.
It sounds to me as if your school is just shuffling their feet and not really supportive of you or your family. I think that you should push to have him classified as quickly as possible....I think that they must evaluate him and test him within a few weeks of a request. I would get a parent advocate through NAMI to work with you on this...once they see that you are not fooling around and are aware of your legal rights they will start moving to accomodate Zac.
I know that the decisions that lie before you will not be easy ones....I would also look into what NAMI may recommend or your local Mental Health Agency. I remember being on the phone with every possible resource until I found what we needed. I know, it isn't easy, but as moms we somehow are able to do it even when we think it isn't even humanly possible.:angel:
Come here and gather whatever strength you can from us. I wish I could help more but other than my (((HUGS))) and prayers of support there seems little else I can do. Please hang in there....Tsohl made a good point earlier on...you MUST stay strong for Zac is going to need that strength. I remember one of out therapists telling me that there is nothing worse for our kids to see than their pillar of strength crumbling. They are counting on us remaining strong so if you have to fall apart after he goes to bed do so but be sure to take care of yourself so that you can remain strong for him.
I know I have said it many times but I can't say it enough....the Zac you see now is unstable without the proper meds in place, the Zac you will see once he is medicated properly will be a much different person, one that you will recognize and one that is much easier to live with. I know it seems like this will never happen but it WILL. I promise you that you will one day be here telling somebody else who has given up all hope that it WILL happen....it just takes alot of freakin time!!!;)
Lots of love, prayers and ((((HUGS)))) to a wonderful mom ~ Goody:angel: :D
Our lucky break came when she was on charges for her shoplifting (this occurred during her manic state) and when she went before the judge he mandated her to be admitted and have a full psychiatric evaluation at an adolescent psychiatric center about and hour from our home. This facility was one I had been looking into for her but in order to get a bed there you would have to be hospitalized for at least 2 weeks and then be placed on a waiting list. After 3 hospitalizations within 3 months you would think that we were eligible. And then our big break came when the judge sent her there and she came back to court every 2 weeks to reevalute the need to stay on and finally we all felt she was ready to be discharged home after the 10 weeks. Since it was mandated by the state they exhausted our insurance and then medicaid picked it up. We were extremely fortunate.
Is there any long term psychiatric center for adolescents that you know of in your area??? My other suggestion is that if your school cannot provide for Zac and deems him needing a more therapeutic environment then they would have to pay for those provisions since they cannot provide them. It is Zac's legal right to be educated. The center where Erin was at were thinking that she may need a therapeutic day center after her discharge but would have had to classify her. Since she was attending school throughout the summer at the facility and doing so well they thought that she would be able to handle going back to school with some provisions in place.
It sounds to me as if your school is just shuffling their feet and not really supportive of you or your family. I think that you should push to have him classified as quickly as possible....I think that they must evaluate him and test him within a few weeks of a request. I would get a parent advocate through NAMI to work with you on this...once they see that you are not fooling around and are aware of your legal rights they will start moving to accomodate Zac.
I know that the decisions that lie before you will not be easy ones....I would also look into what NAMI may recommend or your local Mental Health Agency. I remember being on the phone with every possible resource until I found what we needed. I know, it isn't easy, but as moms we somehow are able to do it even when we think it isn't even humanly possible.:angel:
Come here and gather whatever strength you can from us. I wish I could help more but other than my (((HUGS))) and prayers of support there seems little else I can do. Please hang in there....Tsohl made a good point earlier on...you MUST stay strong for Zac is going to need that strength. I remember one of out therapists telling me that there is nothing worse for our kids to see than their pillar of strength crumbling. They are counting on us remaining strong so if you have to fall apart after he goes to bed do so but be sure to take care of yourself so that you can remain strong for him.
I know I have said it many times but I can't say it enough....the Zac you see now is unstable without the proper meds in place, the Zac you will see once he is medicated properly will be a much different person, one that you will recognize and one that is much easier to live with. I know it seems like this will never happen but it WILL. I promise you that you will one day be here telling somebody else who has given up all hope that it WILL happen....it just takes alot of freakin time!!!;)
Lots of love, prayers and ((((HUGS)))) to a wonderful mom ~ Goody:angel: :D
tsohl
01-09-2007, 11:43 PM
[QUOTE=hopealways1104] He is an entirely different person and it is impossible to have a conversation with him. He lies, he is manipulative, he is surly, he is abusive, and he is emotionally dead.
....and, Hope, he is not properly medicated. This person is YOUR SON and HIS BRAIN has an illness, just like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's Disease. But in this case, it affects his emotions and thought, rather than his movement or memory. Until he is properly medicated, and the biochemistry of his brain returns to something like normal, you may not recognize him, or may not want to know him.
I'm glad Zac liked the new therapist. That is half the battle.
I haven't cooked dinner yet. I must go for now, but will write more later about the dual diagnosis experience we had! Hang on, Hope.
Love and hugs,
Tsohl
....and, Hope, he is not properly medicated. This person is YOUR SON and HIS BRAIN has an illness, just like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's Disease. But in this case, it affects his emotions and thought, rather than his movement or memory. Until he is properly medicated, and the biochemistry of his brain returns to something like normal, you may not recognize him, or may not want to know him.
I'm glad Zac liked the new therapist. That is half the battle.
I haven't cooked dinner yet. I must go for now, but will write more later about the dual diagnosis experience we had! Hang on, Hope.
Love and hugs,
Tsohl
langlee
01-10-2007, 12:28 AM
Thanks to all of you once again. You are my support group and I can feel your strength coming through your posts.
Jules, I will check out Zucker Hillside. I will take him anywhere that they can help.
Goody, what was the name of the facility where Erin was? We are talking about using Zac's college fund, too. We were thrown off when the inpatient facility was recommending a 6 month stay. It seemed so extreme.
Tsohl, thanks for the reminders of what is going on with Zac. Sometimes it's hard to remember when he seems so calculating.
I will try NAMI, too. The school is definitely dragging its feet. We have had the evaluation already, but they never had the psychiatric evaluation. That's supposed to happen soon. I called and left a message for the school psychologist tonight telling her we need to resolve this NOW. I also left a message for Zac's pdoc and told him that despite the fact that Zac said he thought the meds were working, they are not and we need to keep tweaking.
I think one of the reasons I am so dejected tonight is that I am a problem solver by nature and I cannot believe how many stone walls I'm running into. I have spent endless hours doing research, looking for the right therapist, trying to get someone who I trusted to give me the wisdom of their experience. Instead, I feel like I have alot of people who are quick to tell me what they wouldn't do, but no one to give me the direction I so desperately seek. Worse, many of them blame the other. I can't tell you how many mental health professionals along the way have questioned the diagnosis, told me all the things the one before did wrong, and I CAN'T STAND IT! I am not looking to lay blame - just to find a direction for my son to take and not waste anymore of his young life in this hellish existence. I assumed when I started this journey that, as professionals, they would have done alot of the research I am doing, but that has not been my experience. I know there are good people out there, and certainly I've worked with a few, but we are not there yet.
Tomorrow's another day. Maybe sleep will give me a better outlook. Zac's sleeping at my sister's so at least I don't have to wonder what he's doing all night and if he is sleeping at all. She asked what she could do for me. I told her to keep him for a month! OK- I am finally becoming Monster Mom!
Love to all,
Hope
Jules, I will check out Zucker Hillside. I will take him anywhere that they can help.
Goody, what was the name of the facility where Erin was? We are talking about using Zac's college fund, too. We were thrown off when the inpatient facility was recommending a 6 month stay. It seemed so extreme.
Tsohl, thanks for the reminders of what is going on with Zac. Sometimes it's hard to remember when he seems so calculating.
I will try NAMI, too. The school is definitely dragging its feet. We have had the evaluation already, but they never had the psychiatric evaluation. That's supposed to happen soon. I called and left a message for the school psychologist tonight telling her we need to resolve this NOW. I also left a message for Zac's pdoc and told him that despite the fact that Zac said he thought the meds were working, they are not and we need to keep tweaking.
I think one of the reasons I am so dejected tonight is that I am a problem solver by nature and I cannot believe how many stone walls I'm running into. I have spent endless hours doing research, looking for the right therapist, trying to get someone who I trusted to give me the wisdom of their experience. Instead, I feel like I have alot of people who are quick to tell me what they wouldn't do, but no one to give me the direction I so desperately seek. Worse, many of them blame the other. I can't tell you how many mental health professionals along the way have questioned the diagnosis, told me all the things the one before did wrong, and I CAN'T STAND IT! I am not looking to lay blame - just to find a direction for my son to take and not waste anymore of his young life in this hellish existence. I assumed when I started this journey that, as professionals, they would have done alot of the research I am doing, but that has not been my experience. I know there are good people out there, and certainly I've worked with a few, but we are not there yet.
Tomorrow's another day. Maybe sleep will give me a better outlook. Zac's sleeping at my sister's so at least I don't have to wonder what he's doing all night and if he is sleeping at all. She asked what she could do for me. I told her to keep him for a month! OK- I am finally becoming Monster Mom!
Love to all,
Hope
gav_73
01-10-2007, 12:32 AM
Wow Tsohl, that was a really great description of how bipolar affects us and how others should perceive us. I know it can't be any easier for those who love us, probably even more difficult, because our actions hurt others just as much as they hurt us, if not more so, because you are dealing with something you can't totally understand, that is so difficult to deal with...it's just terrible no matter how you look at it. But I am glad you offered that description for us, as I think it is extremely wise and insightful. Thank you! :)
jules3
01-10-2007, 09:16 AM
Hope, its really dumb to say he needs a 6 mth stay..they dont know that. he can be a different kid in 3-4 weeks depending on medications from what i gather here. when we went to doc with my son last week, he told me that sometimes when bipolar people are going thru what both are sons are right now. they put the medications in their mouth and then spit them out,or lie and tell us that they took them...i said o god why? he said because its their control over us. they still can be in charge..i know its crazy, but its a thought..can he be doing this?
tsohl
01-10-2007, 10:13 AM
Good morning everyone,
Goody ~ That is excellent news about Erin. Everyone needs to hear about a little success right now!! Hope you are recovering from your infection. I hesitate to ask, but, have you heard from Kait? Did she go back to school in a huff or were you able to come to some understanding prior to her departure?
Gav ~ I'm hoping what I wrote didn't offend those on the board who have bipolar disorder. For those of us who suddenly find ourselves with a child who develops BP seemingly out of the blue, without another person in the family who is similarly affected, I think it helps in understanding the issues to think about it in terms of a disease.
Jules ~ How is your son by this morning? Sometimes it takes awhile to adjust to a drug which ultimately turns out to be very beneficial. Unless he's having a lot of problems with abilify, I would encourage you to keep trying it awhile longer.
I'm happy to see Goody mentioning NAMI. If you haven't done so, you all might want to check out what NAMI is doing in your local communities. Many have found a good deal of help and support through that group.
Winter has finally arrived in Wisconsin. It is cold here this morning...and it's headed your way!! Hope you all have a peaceful and productive day. Cheers, Tsohl
Goody ~ That is excellent news about Erin. Everyone needs to hear about a little success right now!! Hope you are recovering from your infection. I hesitate to ask, but, have you heard from Kait? Did she go back to school in a huff or were you able to come to some understanding prior to her departure?
Gav ~ I'm hoping what I wrote didn't offend those on the board who have bipolar disorder. For those of us who suddenly find ourselves with a child who develops BP seemingly out of the blue, without another person in the family who is similarly affected, I think it helps in understanding the issues to think about it in terms of a disease.
Jules ~ How is your son by this morning? Sometimes it takes awhile to adjust to a drug which ultimately turns out to be very beneficial. Unless he's having a lot of problems with abilify, I would encourage you to keep trying it awhile longer.
I'm happy to see Goody mentioning NAMI. If you haven't done so, you all might want to check out what NAMI is doing in your local communities. Many have found a good deal of help and support through that group.
Winter has finally arrived in Wisconsin. It is cold here this morning...and it's headed your way!! Hope you all have a peaceful and productive day. Cheers, Tsohl
tsohl
01-10-2007, 12:27 PM
Good morning Hope ~
I hope you had a renewing night's sleep and are ready to do battle today.
I wrote a long post expressing my views on dual diagnosis, got interrupted before I sent it, came back and sent it off into space...so here I go again and I'm sure I won't be nearly as eloquent the 2nd time around!! Forgive me for making an attempt at being light-hearted when I know how deeply upset you are.
I had to smile while reading your comments about your frustrations with the mental health profession. Here I thought this problem only existed in the Midwest! I was in shock when I initially found out my son was bipolar, but he didn't really have a major crisis until about 18 months after I found out. It was during this time that my shock deepened after coming face to face with the mental health profession. I swear, many of these people may have lots of book learning, but it was not apparent that they knew anything about what it meant to be bipolar, or to live with someone who was in the midst of an episode. At a time when I thought my son's life was really in jeopardy, his pdoc fired him as a patient because my son told him he didn't believe in the concept of a 12-step program. He just cut him loose without anything else in place. Anyway, onto dual diagnosis....
First let me say that our situation was quite different from yours, so perhaps what I have to share is not relevent. We did do research on various programs all over the country, and have experience with one. It was our son who sought out a program. He realized that he had to learn to live with being bipolar while clean and sober....and, at this point, he didn't want anything based on the 12 step model of AA. He knew he would have to be compliant to the rules of the program, etc. He had completed college. So what we were looking for is different from what Zac would need...but I imagine there are similarities, too.
What I found was that most dual diagnosis programs are based on the 12-step model of AA. I felt that it was important to deal with the bipolar issues first and the drug and alcohol abuse next. What we found was that most programs, or at least the ones we looked at, mainly deal with addictive behavior. The bipolar gets lumped in with various "mood disorders" and really is treated as (in my opinion) an afterthought...definitely secondary to the addiction. To me this was backwards.
The other thing we found was that many programs are run by a PhDs in psychology rather than be a medical doctor (psychiatrist). You just really need to do your homework, making sure your inquire in a very detailed way. You cannot take anything on its face value. There is a lot of what I would consider false advertising attached to many of these programs. The program we ended up in promised that there was a pdoc involved as the assoc. director and that individual therapy was available as many times/week as deemed necessary. In reality, the pdoc was on the letterhead and maybe attended staff meetings by phone, but she was not on the premises. Her office was several communities away. My son went the whole first week without getting to see her...as she didn't have room in her schedule. (When you're spending that kind of money, losing a week is unbearable! ) Then they would schedule several patients from the program in succession so they could make one run in the van. My son had to sit around and wait through others' appointments before it was his turn...and then wait some more until everyone had finished, and then it was about a 45-minute drive back to their facility. None of this was mentioned in their materials, or by the director when I spoke to him by phone.
I mention this in detail as an example of how you think a service is going to be provided, and in reality, it turns out to be entirely different.
It has been our experience that anything in a group setting involves so much that doesn't directly apply to our child. There is so much time wasted sitting around, or doing inconsequential things that have nothing to do with bipolar. And as I already stated, I would guess about 85% of the time was spent on addressing issues of addiction.
I know you have everyone telling you Zac needs to be in a residential treatment program, but how do you feel about that? If you do decide that is the way to go, I would offer the following advice: I would look for a program that specifically is for those with bipolar and I would not be overly concerned about the dual diagnosis at the moment. I would tell you to be VERY thorough in your investigation of the program, going there in person to check it all out, interviewing those who have attended, if possible, meeting the director, etc.
I am going to stop for now. I have an appointment in a bit to discuss my mom's current situation with Alzheimer's....and I don't want to risk losing this again. I don't have time to reread it, so ......I'll do it when I get back.
Love and hugs to you,
Tsohl
I hope you had a renewing night's sleep and are ready to do battle today.
I wrote a long post expressing my views on dual diagnosis, got interrupted before I sent it, came back and sent it off into space...so here I go again and I'm sure I won't be nearly as eloquent the 2nd time around!! Forgive me for making an attempt at being light-hearted when I know how deeply upset you are.
I had to smile while reading your comments about your frustrations with the mental health profession. Here I thought this problem only existed in the Midwest! I was in shock when I initially found out my son was bipolar, but he didn't really have a major crisis until about 18 months after I found out. It was during this time that my shock deepened after coming face to face with the mental health profession. I swear, many of these people may have lots of book learning, but it was not apparent that they knew anything about what it meant to be bipolar, or to live with someone who was in the midst of an episode. At a time when I thought my son's life was really in jeopardy, his pdoc fired him as a patient because my son told him he didn't believe in the concept of a 12-step program. He just cut him loose without anything else in place. Anyway, onto dual diagnosis....
First let me say that our situation was quite different from yours, so perhaps what I have to share is not relevent. We did do research on various programs all over the country, and have experience with one. It was our son who sought out a program. He realized that he had to learn to live with being bipolar while clean and sober....and, at this point, he didn't want anything based on the 12 step model of AA. He knew he would have to be compliant to the rules of the program, etc. He had completed college. So what we were looking for is different from what Zac would need...but I imagine there are similarities, too.
What I found was that most dual diagnosis programs are based on the 12-step model of AA. I felt that it was important to deal with the bipolar issues first and the drug and alcohol abuse next. What we found was that most programs, or at least the ones we looked at, mainly deal with addictive behavior. The bipolar gets lumped in with various "mood disorders" and really is treated as (in my opinion) an afterthought...definitely secondary to the addiction. To me this was backwards.
The other thing we found was that many programs are run by a PhDs in psychology rather than be a medical doctor (psychiatrist). You just really need to do your homework, making sure your inquire in a very detailed way. You cannot take anything on its face value. There is a lot of what I would consider false advertising attached to many of these programs. The program we ended up in promised that there was a pdoc involved as the assoc. director and that individual therapy was available as many times/week as deemed necessary. In reality, the pdoc was on the letterhead and maybe attended staff meetings by phone, but she was not on the premises. Her office was several communities away. My son went the whole first week without getting to see her...as she didn't have room in her schedule. (When you're spending that kind of money, losing a week is unbearable! ) Then they would schedule several patients from the program in succession so they could make one run in the van. My son had to sit around and wait through others' appointments before it was his turn...and then wait some more until everyone had finished, and then it was about a 45-minute drive back to their facility. None of this was mentioned in their materials, or by the director when I spoke to him by phone.
I mention this in detail as an example of how you think a service is going to be provided, and in reality, it turns out to be entirely different.
It has been our experience that anything in a group setting involves so much that doesn't directly apply to our child. There is so much time wasted sitting around, or doing inconsequential things that have nothing to do with bipolar. And as I already stated, I would guess about 85% of the time was spent on addressing issues of addiction.
I know you have everyone telling you Zac needs to be in a residential treatment program, but how do you feel about that? If you do decide that is the way to go, I would offer the following advice: I would look for a program that specifically is for those with bipolar and I would not be overly concerned about the dual diagnosis at the moment. I would tell you to be VERY thorough in your investigation of the program, going there in person to check it all out, interviewing those who have attended, if possible, meeting the director, etc.
I am going to stop for now. I have an appointment in a bit to discuss my mom's current situation with Alzheimer's....and I don't want to risk losing this again. I don't have time to reread it, so ......I'll do it when I get back.
Love and hugs to you,
Tsohl
gav_73
01-10-2007, 03:32 PM
Hi Tsohl,
I just wanted to say that as a bipolar, your comments and description didn't offend me at all and I doubt they would offend any of us. As I said, I thought your description was very insightful. It is also comforting that those who aren't struggling personally with bipolar, but are dealing with someone who is, understand somewhat of what it is like and try to support us even through the roughest times. I think you ladies (and gentlemen) are great. :)
I just wanted to say that as a bipolar, your comments and description didn't offend me at all and I doubt they would offend any of us. As I said, I thought your description was very insightful. It is also comforting that those who aren't struggling personally with bipolar, but are dealing with someone who is, understand somewhat of what it is like and try to support us even through the roughest times. I think you ladies (and gentlemen) are great. :)
tsohl
01-10-2007, 04:09 PM
Thanks, Gav. I appreciate knowing I haven't offended you, or others.
tsohl
01-10-2007, 05:55 PM
Hope,
Please ask any questions you might have about a dual diagnosis program. I don't know what you might be interested in specifically. My gut feeling is that Zac needs to find the right meds and that when he does, the self-medicating will take care of itself. It's not like he's been drinking or using drugs for years and years and has an ingrained habit. So far he's just experimenting in an attempt to gain some control over his life, and probably more than anything, to feel better. I think when he is stable and feeling better, he will realize that he does have his life ahead of him and that it is worth living and can be good and interesting. When he realizes that his meds are an important component in allowing this to happen, I think he'll realize that street drugs and alcohol just aren't worth the risk. At least I pray that's what happens.
Hope you had a little respite today.
Best,
Tsohl
Please ask any questions you might have about a dual diagnosis program. I don't know what you might be interested in specifically. My gut feeling is that Zac needs to find the right meds and that when he does, the self-medicating will take care of itself. It's not like he's been drinking or using drugs for years and years and has an ingrained habit. So far he's just experimenting in an attempt to gain some control over his life, and probably more than anything, to feel better. I think when he is stable and feeling better, he will realize that he does have his life ahead of him and that it is worth living and can be good and interesting. When he realizes that his meds are an important component in allowing this to happen, I think he'll realize that street drugs and alcohol just aren't worth the risk. At least I pray that's what happens.
Hope you had a little respite today.
Best,
Tsohl
jules3
01-10-2007, 06:30 PM
TS, thanks for asking about my son..hes looking good..less drousey today..sleeping much better at night..but its only a few days..and i've learned not to get my hopes up..just keeping fingers crossed.. the key here is the right meds and that he keeps taking them..right?
langlee
01-10-2007, 06:34 PM
Tsohl,
Thanks for all of your comments. Honestly, in my heart of hearts, I don't believe he should be in a residential treatment center, but I am struggling to figure out what to do and I am fearful that if I don't find the right facility I will do more damage to him. Your comments were exactly what I was concerned about. It's why I was originally concentrating on Johns Hopkins because they have a Mood Disorder Clinic and it focuses on bipolar. It's short term, though, and I can't find anyone to tell me what I should expect when he is done there. I am so aware that we are nowhere right now and I can't stand that, either.
Next week I'll speak with the latest therapist to hear his thoughts.
This is ongoing, obviously. Zac is in a slightly better mood and he can't understand why I seem so worn down. I'm exhausted and not sleeping well and that's not helping either.
More later...
Love,
Hope
Thanks for all of your comments. Honestly, in my heart of hearts, I don't believe he should be in a residential treatment center, but I am struggling to figure out what to do and I am fearful that if I don't find the right facility I will do more damage to him. Your comments were exactly what I was concerned about. It's why I was originally concentrating on Johns Hopkins because they have a Mood Disorder Clinic and it focuses on bipolar. It's short term, though, and I can't find anyone to tell me what I should expect when he is done there. I am so aware that we are nowhere right now and I can't stand that, either.
Next week I'll speak with the latest therapist to hear his thoughts.
This is ongoing, obviously. Zac is in a slightly better mood and he can't understand why I seem so worn down. I'm exhausted and not sleeping well and that's not helping either.
More later...
Love,
Hope
tsohl
01-10-2007, 06:55 PM
I just laughed when I read your comment about Zac not being able to figure out why out you're worn out. I laughed out loud because it reminded me of something I had long ago blocked from my memory. The day we went to our son's apartment before we all went to the psych hospital so he could admit himself, he was sitting at the table with a gun in his hand. He had supposedly bought it for target practice. I did not know he owned it. (We are not a gun-owning family, and I'd never actually seen a real one before.) I had no idea what he was high on, but his pupils were the size of saucers, he could not talk sensibly, could not walk without stumbling, and I can't even remember what else. It was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen...and it was our son. My husband and I both stayed very calm....you get the picture. I was absoutely terrified over everything--the way my son looked, the gun, not knowing if it was loaded or what he planned on doing with it, or if he even knew what he was doing...I was terrified. A couple days later, after he'd checked himself back out of the psych hospital after deciding it wasn't a very good move to have gone there, we were talking about that morning and he just couldn't understand why I seemed upset. And even though he assured me he never had any intention of commiting suicide, in his very logical, rational way, he was telling me that even if he had, it was just "his business." It was his life and if he chose to end it, it should not make any difference to anyone but him.
Six months after this, when he was fairly stable on his meds, he mentioned that he hadn't realized how much Dad and I loved him. I was breathless with disbelief!!
Six months after this, when he was fairly stable on his meds, he mentioned that he hadn't realized how much Dad and I loved him. I was breathless with disbelief!!
goody2shuz
01-10-2007, 06:55 PM
Just checking in, Hope, and letting you know that you and your entire family have been in my thoughts and prayers all day. As far as the place where Erin was it was Sagamore Childrens Psychiatric Center in Dix Hills, NY. It is a state facility and like I said, we found that we received the best there in terms of treatment and diagnosis. They first did a thorough evaluation and diagnositic testing both cognitive and psychological/psychiatric. We then had an informative meeting in which all the results were discussed....at this meeting were the therapist, doctor and director of the facility We were informed of what was diagnosed and the meds and treatment that would be utilized. They said that in order for Erin to respond well we should expect anywhere from 2-3 months. During that time she would be assigned a unit...the place has boys and girls units. They worked on a point and level system....and there were individualized objectives and goals set....in order to receive certain provileges you had to have a minimum of points. The place also encouraged activity involvement....they had volleyball, arts and craft activities, crocheting, painting, table games, swimming etc. There was school everyday with a week vacation during the week.
Erin was assigned a therapist and doctor who would work with her the entire time she was there. Once a week there would be a team meeting to discuss the progress and any changes that should be made in terms of treatment etc. in which nurses, recreation therapists and anybody who observed Erin would offer their obsevations of her behavior and interactions with others. Erin met with her doctor each morning for about 10 minutes and her therapist at least 3 times a week while there. Several times we were called in to meet with Erin's therapist along with her.
They had various outings according to what level you were at and there was a family event every few weeks as well. It was scary at first for all of us because in the middle of speaking with Erin by phone another kid would be totally out of control and have to be administered a shot and the nurse would tell me that Erin had to get back to her room. Up to this point Erin had never really witnessed seeing sicker kids than her....and as scary as it was I think it was good because it allowed her to see that there were others far worse off than her.
I think that a place that is structured and provides enough activities and has a good team consisting of a psychiatrist and therapist and supportive staff is important. At first Erin told us that the place was bad and didn't do anything for her but after a while she saw how much improvement there was as compared to 3 prior hospitalizations and 7 months of following up with an individual psychiatrist and therapist. It was 10 weeks of her life but compared to the 7 months that she didn't receive the proper diagnosis and treatment it was well worth it.
If you have any other questions please feel free to ask. Oh....and after a while we had to sign Erin in under an invountary but she was okay with that.
Hope that this helps you out a little.
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
Erin was assigned a therapist and doctor who would work with her the entire time she was there. Once a week there would be a team meeting to discuss the progress and any changes that should be made in terms of treatment etc. in which nurses, recreation therapists and anybody who observed Erin would offer their obsevations of her behavior and interactions with others. Erin met with her doctor each morning for about 10 minutes and her therapist at least 3 times a week while there. Several times we were called in to meet with Erin's therapist along with her.
They had various outings according to what level you were at and there was a family event every few weeks as well. It was scary at first for all of us because in the middle of speaking with Erin by phone another kid would be totally out of control and have to be administered a shot and the nurse would tell me that Erin had to get back to her room. Up to this point Erin had never really witnessed seeing sicker kids than her....and as scary as it was I think it was good because it allowed her to see that there were others far worse off than her.
I think that a place that is structured and provides enough activities and has a good team consisting of a psychiatrist and therapist and supportive staff is important. At first Erin told us that the place was bad and didn't do anything for her but after a while she saw how much improvement there was as compared to 3 prior hospitalizations and 7 months of following up with an individual psychiatrist and therapist. It was 10 weeks of her life but compared to the 7 months that she didn't receive the proper diagnosis and treatment it was well worth it.
If you have any other questions please feel free to ask. Oh....and after a while we had to sign Erin in under an invountary but she was okay with that.
Hope that this helps you out a little.
((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody:angel: :wave:
jules3
01-10-2007, 08:57 PM
Hope, isnt it amazing how our whole household revolves around their mood that day.. my son always says to me that i worry too much..meanwhile im about ready to quit my parttime job because i cant sleep at night. he just doesnt see it.