djemcee
01-02-2007, 03:08 AM
I recently started the Duragesic patch and was bumped from Norco to Percocets.
I don't know if it is just me, or does anyone else suffer from having a hard time getting up in the morning? I usually go to bed kind of late (11:30 or midnight'ish), but I can't seem to get my self out of bed until around 11:00 a.m. or somtimes even past noon. I work p/t mostly on the weekends, which allows me to be able to sleep in. I just feel like I am wasting my life away when I get up at noon. I feel like crap in the mornings:yawn: , and getting out of bed is a chore. If I have to get up for something (doc appointment or meeting) I can do it. I actually feel pretty good when I get up earlier, but it takes me a few hours to get feeling good. I am not sure if this is just my problem, or a sign of the meds. I actually feel better getting up from a nap in the middle of the day than I do getting up from an overnight sleep (oh how I love my naps:) .
Just though I would see if opiate patients have this problem, or Duragesic patients have this problem, or if it's just plain old me. I just wish I had a little more energy.
California Chris
I don't know if it is just me, or does anyone else suffer from having a hard time getting up in the morning? I usually go to bed kind of late (11:30 or midnight'ish), but I can't seem to get my self out of bed until around 11:00 a.m. or somtimes even past noon. I work p/t mostly on the weekends, which allows me to be able to sleep in. I just feel like I am wasting my life away when I get up at noon. I feel like crap in the mornings:yawn: , and getting out of bed is a chore. If I have to get up for something (doc appointment or meeting) I can do it. I actually feel pretty good when I get up earlier, but it takes me a few hours to get feeling good. I am not sure if this is just my problem, or a sign of the meds. I actually feel better getting up from a nap in the middle of the day than I do getting up from an overnight sleep (oh how I love my naps:) .
Just though I would see if opiate patients have this problem, or Duragesic patients have this problem, or if it's just plain old me. I just wish I had a little more energy.
California Chris
Sponsor
Shoreline
01-02-2007, 09:58 AM
Hi Chris, I think i's safe to assume that anyone with chronic pain has a more difficult itme gettng moving in the morning. If I have to be at my part time job at 11 I have to get up by 8 to give myself 3 hours to get myself together and get moving in order t put on the happy fce to go to work. It also takes an up to an hour to stop seeeating after taking a shower, to egt back pain under control and to pour enough coffee down my throat to get through the afternoon.
Personally I haven't slept more than 4 hours straight since the last surgery n
'99. Going to bed at midnight isn't unusual for an adult or someone with CP. Staying i bed for 10-111 hours is kind of unusual. Then taking naps in the after noon and looking forward to them unless you a senior citizen isn't within the boundaries of normal. It sounds more like depression and should be discussed with your doc. It's not that your not getting enough sleep, in fact spending to much time in bed can make some conditions worse.
It's easy to fall into the trap of using your condition or injuries as an excuse for everything you don't feel like doing, but somewhere there is a line between not feeling like doing it and not being able to do it. When that line gets blurred it's time to discuss this with a PM psychologist or your PM doc. I don't think the answer is to start the day with ritalin or any other stimulant before trying everything else first. Sure we could use out condition or meds to justify it, but all were doing is justifying a legal speed ball. I nice combo of opiates and amphetamines to start the day when the proper antidepressant and dealing with our problems may be the more appropriate way to manage a problem like this. If I take a nap at all during the day, It guarantees I'll still be up at 4 am, cursing the sleeping pills that don't work and being envious of those that can sleep.
If sleep is an escape and your sleeping more than 8-9 hours, this isn't normal. In the old days, PM psychology was part of every PM program and rightfully so, CP effects every aspect of our life. CP patient are 600 times more likely to take their own lives and simply having someone to tell the thoughts we hold in because they would scare the crap out of our loved ones and family and friends. A psychologist or shrink gives you a place to vent, keep our self in check so we don't use our condition for secondary gains. Just having an unbiased opinion about our lifestyles not to mention having another medical pro to bounce questions and ideas across that aren't in the habit of trying to move patients along where our PM docs have a heavy case load.
Many docs use NP's and PA's, They have their place in easing the case load, but there are things I want to discus with a doc that I'm not going to discus with a NP and allow them to put their spin or interpret what we said into our personal records.
Bottom line, is , It's not hurting ourselves to push ourselves and hold ourselves to an adult schedule rather than one that suites a teenager or a college kid that simply doesn't go to class if they don't feel good for whatever reason.
You said yourself, you feel better when you get up and moving and you feel bad about wasting the day. The key is being aware of those things, and doing something positive about it. If you know something makes you feel better about your life circumstance, why wouldn't you do those things to make yourself feel better. If it's depression, perhaps you can't until the depression is treated. If it's just CP and the normal difficulties of getting moving when you stiff and tired, Not pushing yourself just makes you feel worse.
It's easier for me because my daughter has to get up and go to school every day, my wifes day starts at the same time so I get up, make breakfast, pack lunches and get folks off to school and work. Rather than going back to bed and then feeling bad about how I spent my day while everyone else was productive. I drink lots of coffee, stay up and do what needs to be done around the house or stay up and go off to my part time job that fortunately never starts before 10 am.
I can't sleep through 3 rounds of snooze on my wives alarm clock and the sound of my daughters alarm going off, or the morning showers and activity that goes on. It sounds nice and there are plenty of days I would prefer to stay in bed, but it's not much of a life spent sleeping the days away as my family comes and goes and then staying up for hours after everyone else has gone to bed.It’s not like I don’t get enough alone time. Even if I'm not tired and know I won't be falling asleep, It's not a huge sacrifice to go to bed with my wife to simply maintain some sort of level of intimacy. I don't mean physical intimacy every night, but my wife has been through a great deal with all that's gone on in the past 13 years. She has hung in there where many wives would have simply walked away to find something better. So it's not a huge sacrifice to go to bed and be my wives companion, bed warmer and comforter for a few minutes or an hour until she falls asleep. She has certainly given up a great deal for me, so it's really not to much to ask to try to accommodate a simple wish to have your spouse come to bed with you at night.
Sorry to get off track, but you seem to recognize it's a problem. Now it's up to you to do something about it or try to figure out why you can't make yourself do something about it. That's where depression comes to mind when you recognize a problem but simply can't change the pattern that makes you feel worse. That’s what the pros are for and perhaps where the right med comes in.
Good luck, I don’t thiink this is anything unusual or anything nobody else experiences, It’s just part of CP and wanting to be as productive as possible.
Take care, Dave
Personally I haven't slept more than 4 hours straight since the last surgery n
'99. Going to bed at midnight isn't unusual for an adult or someone with CP. Staying i bed for 10-111 hours is kind of unusual. Then taking naps in the after noon and looking forward to them unless you a senior citizen isn't within the boundaries of normal. It sounds more like depression and should be discussed with your doc. It's not that your not getting enough sleep, in fact spending to much time in bed can make some conditions worse.
It's easy to fall into the trap of using your condition or injuries as an excuse for everything you don't feel like doing, but somewhere there is a line between not feeling like doing it and not being able to do it. When that line gets blurred it's time to discuss this with a PM psychologist or your PM doc. I don't think the answer is to start the day with ritalin or any other stimulant before trying everything else first. Sure we could use out condition or meds to justify it, but all were doing is justifying a legal speed ball. I nice combo of opiates and amphetamines to start the day when the proper antidepressant and dealing with our problems may be the more appropriate way to manage a problem like this. If I take a nap at all during the day, It guarantees I'll still be up at 4 am, cursing the sleeping pills that don't work and being envious of those that can sleep.
If sleep is an escape and your sleeping more than 8-9 hours, this isn't normal. In the old days, PM psychology was part of every PM program and rightfully so, CP effects every aspect of our life. CP patient are 600 times more likely to take their own lives and simply having someone to tell the thoughts we hold in because they would scare the crap out of our loved ones and family and friends. A psychologist or shrink gives you a place to vent, keep our self in check so we don't use our condition for secondary gains. Just having an unbiased opinion about our lifestyles not to mention having another medical pro to bounce questions and ideas across that aren't in the habit of trying to move patients along where our PM docs have a heavy case load.
Many docs use NP's and PA's, They have their place in easing the case load, but there are things I want to discus with a doc that I'm not going to discus with a NP and allow them to put their spin or interpret what we said into our personal records.
Bottom line, is , It's not hurting ourselves to push ourselves and hold ourselves to an adult schedule rather than one that suites a teenager or a college kid that simply doesn't go to class if they don't feel good for whatever reason.
You said yourself, you feel better when you get up and moving and you feel bad about wasting the day. The key is being aware of those things, and doing something positive about it. If you know something makes you feel better about your life circumstance, why wouldn't you do those things to make yourself feel better. If it's depression, perhaps you can't until the depression is treated. If it's just CP and the normal difficulties of getting moving when you stiff and tired, Not pushing yourself just makes you feel worse.
It's easier for me because my daughter has to get up and go to school every day, my wifes day starts at the same time so I get up, make breakfast, pack lunches and get folks off to school and work. Rather than going back to bed and then feeling bad about how I spent my day while everyone else was productive. I drink lots of coffee, stay up and do what needs to be done around the house or stay up and go off to my part time job that fortunately never starts before 10 am.
I can't sleep through 3 rounds of snooze on my wives alarm clock and the sound of my daughters alarm going off, or the morning showers and activity that goes on. It sounds nice and there are plenty of days I would prefer to stay in bed, but it's not much of a life spent sleeping the days away as my family comes and goes and then staying up for hours after everyone else has gone to bed.It’s not like I don’t get enough alone time. Even if I'm not tired and know I won't be falling asleep, It's not a huge sacrifice to go to bed with my wife to simply maintain some sort of level of intimacy. I don't mean physical intimacy every night, but my wife has been through a great deal with all that's gone on in the past 13 years. She has hung in there where many wives would have simply walked away to find something better. So it's not a huge sacrifice to go to bed and be my wives companion, bed warmer and comforter for a few minutes or an hour until she falls asleep. She has certainly given up a great deal for me, so it's really not to much to ask to try to accommodate a simple wish to have your spouse come to bed with you at night.
Sorry to get off track, but you seem to recognize it's a problem. Now it's up to you to do something about it or try to figure out why you can't make yourself do something about it. That's where depression comes to mind when you recognize a problem but simply can't change the pattern that makes you feel worse. That’s what the pros are for and perhaps where the right med comes in.
Good luck, I don’t thiink this is anything unusual or anything nobody else experiences, It’s just part of CP and wanting to be as productive as possible.
Take care, Dave
djemcee
01-02-2007, 04:04 PM
Hey Dave,
Thanks for the reply. People on this board really look up to your replies.
Anyway, I am not at all depressed, I think it is more a combo of the meds, and the fact that I wake up stiff and sore, etc. I think most healthy people just have to battle the morning cloud, but we have to battle the morning cloud, the morning stiffness, the morning aches, etc.
I think really it comes down to the fact that I can sleep in, and that the bed is soooo cozy, warm, and my little Chihuahua makes it so much more fun to be there. I actually am very happy with life and beleive that I am far from depressed. I really think the meds kinda help make me feel a little more tired.
If I sleep to noon or sooo, I will not take a nap. If I sleep til' 10:00 a.m. or 10:30 a.m., then I am defiantley wanting to get a nap in by 4 p.m.
The funny thing is I think I get better sleep cycles from a hour or two nap than I do from 12 hrs of sleep. I think my body doesn't have time to stiffen up with a nap, and I sleep very deep and sound for that 2 hrs than a whole night of sleep. That is why I look foward to those naps.
I also think there is something else. This may sound weird, but I think I am colder now. I lost over 90#'s over the summer. I was 248 and 5'10", I am now 153#'s I needed to do it for my body, ankles, knees, etc. I did it naturally by the way:) , I just eat nothing but the good foods (turkey, broccoli, veggies, lean meats, splenda, etc..). Now that I am a skinny little guy, I freeze all the time. I stay in bed because I have the heat blanket on and it's so friggin warm. I turn up the house heat to 72, but still feels cold. When your cold, you ache. But I gave up the weight to help the body, but I feel like I found another problem when doing it., I cant wait for summer so it will be 90 degrees when I get out of bed. I will want to get out of bed, it will be to uncomfortable :blob_fire .
I am taking a trip to Washington in a week. We are going up to the mountains (leavenworth area), and I know I will freeze my nuttles off. It's like 30-20's during the day and 10-20's at night "YIKES".
Thanks for the reply again. I was just wondering if people on the same meds as me might be feeling a little sleepy or tired than normal.
Cheers,
California Chris
Thanks for the reply. People on this board really look up to your replies.
Anyway, I am not at all depressed, I think it is more a combo of the meds, and the fact that I wake up stiff and sore, etc. I think most healthy people just have to battle the morning cloud, but we have to battle the morning cloud, the morning stiffness, the morning aches, etc.
I think really it comes down to the fact that I can sleep in, and that the bed is soooo cozy, warm, and my little Chihuahua makes it so much more fun to be there. I actually am very happy with life and beleive that I am far from depressed. I really think the meds kinda help make me feel a little more tired.
If I sleep to noon or sooo, I will not take a nap. If I sleep til' 10:00 a.m. or 10:30 a.m., then I am defiantley wanting to get a nap in by 4 p.m.
The funny thing is I think I get better sleep cycles from a hour or two nap than I do from 12 hrs of sleep. I think my body doesn't have time to stiffen up with a nap, and I sleep very deep and sound for that 2 hrs than a whole night of sleep. That is why I look foward to those naps.
I also think there is something else. This may sound weird, but I think I am colder now. I lost over 90#'s over the summer. I was 248 and 5'10", I am now 153#'s I needed to do it for my body, ankles, knees, etc. I did it naturally by the way:) , I just eat nothing but the good foods (turkey, broccoli, veggies, lean meats, splenda, etc..). Now that I am a skinny little guy, I freeze all the time. I stay in bed because I have the heat blanket on and it's so friggin warm. I turn up the house heat to 72, but still feels cold. When your cold, you ache. But I gave up the weight to help the body, but I feel like I found another problem when doing it., I cant wait for summer so it will be 90 degrees when I get out of bed. I will want to get out of bed, it will be to uncomfortable :blob_fire .
I am taking a trip to Washington in a week. We are going up to the mountains (leavenworth area), and I know I will freeze my nuttles off. It's like 30-20's during the day and 10-20's at night "YIKES".
Thanks for the reply again. I was just wondering if people on the same meds as me might be feeling a little sleepy or tired than normal.
Cheers,
California Chris
kim4074
01-02-2007, 06:36 PM
I have never used this med, but my fiance does. He started on 25mcg and was bumped to 50mcg then 75mcg's on the 75mcgs he couldnt function he could sleep all day and night. He had to go back to his Dr and get the dose lowered. This could be very well a side affect of the patch and I would discuss this with your Dr. It does take some time to get used to. My fiance is not huge but not small either and it knocked him right out. Something to talk to your Dr about maybe this med isnt for you maybe there might be something else to help with your pain. Kim
IZZY'SMOM
01-02-2007, 11:03 PM
Hi Chris~
I can totally relate to your post. I was thinking about this very thing the last few days...
I am on the 50's, and have b/t vicoprofens 7.5 2 4 X a day, and I have a harder time getting up when I have had to take more of my b/t meds.
I have kids to get to school in the mornings as well, and also have two ADORABLE boston terriers that sleep with us, and its SO hard to get out of a warm bed. Also I live where we have day temps of 29 above zero
if we are lucky, like today, and down to 40 below easily every nite in the winters.
So I can relate to not wanting to get out of bed!~
I know that sometimes its really hard to get myself going, and I actually set my alarm an hour early so I can wake up and see how Im feeling a bit, and if I need to take a dose and lie back down until every one else's time to rise, I need to do that, sometimes. If I feel crappy and have to rally the troops, its SO hard, so waking up earlier and taking a morning eval. kind of helps me.
Also, we have a coffee/expresso make that makes our beverages in the morning before we wake up, and the aroma [if you are a coffee drinker] really helps to get me going!~ they are really not expensive to find one that has a timer...just another thought!~
Believe me, there are time when I feel just plain lazy, and lucky that i can sleep in, and thats fine, unless you are neglecting your family, ect. But I dont sense that from you at all. I will just say that it has been harder for me to wake up since starting opiates, but there are ways around it. I try to get up and get things done when i feel good, and leave the crappy days to the bed. I do notice that opiates have made me more tired, ect than before I took them. Im usually the type do be doing a million things at once, and some days it is a struggle, I can relate. I know that when I have the luxury of lying in bed in the mornings, since the Christmas break, ect. and no kiddies, I have found that if I could lie in bed it would be REALLY easy! But then I feel really crappy the rest of the day. Im here for ya if you need any support! Oh< I forgot, but I usually go to bed around 11:30ish my time after "Frasier" every nite!~
Hope this helped, and Heres to a great New Year for you and everyone else on the board~
xoxoxoxo
IZZY'SMOM:wave: ;)
I can totally relate to your post. I was thinking about this very thing the last few days...
I am on the 50's, and have b/t vicoprofens 7.5 2 4 X a day, and I have a harder time getting up when I have had to take more of my b/t meds.
I have kids to get to school in the mornings as well, and also have two ADORABLE boston terriers that sleep with us, and its SO hard to get out of a warm bed. Also I live where we have day temps of 29 above zero
if we are lucky, like today, and down to 40 below easily every nite in the winters.
So I can relate to not wanting to get out of bed!~
I know that sometimes its really hard to get myself going, and I actually set my alarm an hour early so I can wake up and see how Im feeling a bit, and if I need to take a dose and lie back down until every one else's time to rise, I need to do that, sometimes. If I feel crappy and have to rally the troops, its SO hard, so waking up earlier and taking a morning eval. kind of helps me.
Also, we have a coffee/expresso make that makes our beverages in the morning before we wake up, and the aroma [if you are a coffee drinker] really helps to get me going!~ they are really not expensive to find one that has a timer...just another thought!~
Believe me, there are time when I feel just plain lazy, and lucky that i can sleep in, and thats fine, unless you are neglecting your family, ect. But I dont sense that from you at all. I will just say that it has been harder for me to wake up since starting opiates, but there are ways around it. I try to get up and get things done when i feel good, and leave the crappy days to the bed. I do notice that opiates have made me more tired, ect than before I took them. Im usually the type do be doing a million things at once, and some days it is a struggle, I can relate. I know that when I have the luxury of lying in bed in the mornings, since the Christmas break, ect. and no kiddies, I have found that if I could lie in bed it would be REALLY easy! But then I feel really crappy the rest of the day. Im here for ya if you need any support! Oh< I forgot, but I usually go to bed around 11:30ish my time after "Frasier" every nite!~
Hope this helped, and Heres to a great New Year for you and everyone else on the board~
xoxoxoxo
IZZY'SMOM:wave: ;)
Shoreline
01-03-2007, 02:12 AM
Hey EJ, Congrats on the weight loss. I guess I have another 15 to go, I would like to be at 165. It's been extremely hard where weight had never been an issue. iI wrestled everything from 112 to 145 in HS and could control my wieght to the ounce. Since the last surgery left me bed wridden and then the inrtruduction of opiates, the lbs slowly accumulate as I grew weaker and weaker. I do seem to be at a plateau but that's a different topic. I just wanted t say that's fabtastic you diod it the healthy way. Docs want to see you are doing you part and ir sounds like you are doing yours.
Sorry about the cold, I know I'm furtunate to live at my lattitude and on the water, but we have lots of changes that occur rapidly. I know the barametric back. I guess I remember when the bed was a comforting place, I could escape the pain, I even had dreams where i was pain free. It's just been so long After 13 years, I think think you simply forget what pan free is and accomadate to your new life. I hope it warms up soon in those cold states.
Take care, Dave
Sorry about the cold, I know I'm furtunate to live at my lattitude and on the water, but we have lots of changes that occur rapidly. I know the barametric back. I guess I remember when the bed was a comforting place, I could escape the pain, I even had dreams where i was pain free. It's just been so long After 13 years, I think think you simply forget what pan free is and accomadate to your new life. I hope it warms up soon in those cold states.
Take care, Dave
npainnTN
01-03-2007, 02:42 AM
Its funny that this is getting posted. I stay tired. Even before the meds I had trouble with not getting "enough" sleep. But now with the CP, oh my, I feel like I could sleep all day every day. And that is part of my problem I know. I have a 3 year old that is home with me all day every day, so that helps me stay awake, until nap time. But, I also only take meds during the day and at bedtime. I do not get up in the night and take meds. So I hurt more at night than I do during the day. Which is definately a BAD cycle. But I have tried to get up at like 7 and then stay up all day, and even then I can stay up till 1 or 2 no problem. I have been taking sleeping meds since then last episode with the blood clots. I don't know if its them that make me finally fall asleep at night or if its just because I am exhausted. I try to make this time for my computer stuff, because it does make me sleepy to do stuff here. Like right now I am falling asleep typing, but when I go lay down I will be wide awake.
Its definately nice to know that there is others out there who not only suffer with the physical pain, but also the other side effects that go along with it.
If anyone has ideas let us know. I have tried baths, reading, and a good bag of hard candy.
good day
jenn
How was everyones holiday? I hope that everyone was able to be as pain free as possible and enjoy it all as much as possible.
Happy Holidays
Jenn
Its definately nice to know that there is others out there who not only suffer with the physical pain, but also the other side effects that go along with it.
If anyone has ideas let us know. I have tried baths, reading, and a good bag of hard candy.
good day
jenn
How was everyones holiday? I hope that everyone was able to be as pain free as possible and enjoy it all as much as possible.
Happy Holidays
Jenn
BrittleBones
01-03-2007, 08:46 PM
This has turned into a very interesting post. It is a huge issue in my life right now and has been for about a year or more. Like many of you I'm the kind of chronic pain patient that wakes up in the morning with very bad pain. Most of my pain is in my joints - I have rhem. arthritis - and I have pain in my hip - hip replacement last year - and my back is a constant source of pain - 9 operations. The first thing I do when I wake up (usually about 6:30 am) is take my pain meds. I talke 40 mgs. of methadone; 100 mg. Topomax and 200 mg. ibuprofin. Like so many others, I fall back to sleep while waiting for the drugs to take effect so that I can get out of bed. The problem has been that I've been sleeping until 11:30 and sometimes much later than that. I was always a very early riser - even when I was on the methadone at much higher dosages! It's just been for about 1 year that this tremendous fatigue has entered the picture. There are other physical reasons why I could be feeling so lethargic and I need to see my doctor about those. But for right now I feel like I just want to lay in bed ALL DAY LONG and watch Turner Classic Movies, use my computer and talk to my husband and my cats. I do think I have more depression than I admit to. I see the pain psychologist at my pain clinic every 2 weeks, but I've not seen her in more than a month because of the holidays. I'll see her again on the 17th. The worst feeling is the feeling of guilt! I see my wonderful husband going to work every morning, he never asks for anything. He never complains if the laundry isn't done or that I don't cook for him. He takes care of himself and takes care of me as well. Don't know why I was the lucky one chosen to be paired off with him! I'm grateful every day of my life. I agree with the folks who have said that sleeping the day away is just one way that people have to deal with depression. Perhaps that's what I'm doing. I'll talk to my doctor about it this month. Thanks for starting this thread. It helped me! All the best - KathyMac