are the calves the hardest part of the body to develope or is it the triceps? or are we both wrong.

i think its the calves!!! i've been training calves at least twice per week for a long time and saw NO progress. on the other hand when i begun training, my triceps started to develop in no time, i begun to feel hard muscle in areas of my arms that i didn't know i even had muscle(silly me!!). although i don't really train with much intensity, my triceps are quite shapely and hard. my calves!!?? thats another story. i also think its my genetic pre-disposition to have tiny legs too but this is ridiculous!! no growth whatsoever. i also have very flat feet and i hear that that has something to do with it.

I remember Andrew mentioning that calves were really hard to develop and you basically are born with calves that work or don't.

Calves can be very tough to develop, no doubt. Try doing this for calves if you've been working out for awhile, I found it on another website: using one step of the stairs or a cinder block or whatever, do calf raises with one leg at a time using your bodyweight. Do as many as you can for each leg. Concentrate on keeping your form strict. Repeat with the other leg. Don't do more than a couple of sets your first time doing this. Use your hands to balance yourself against the corner or wall or whatever. When this exercise fails to create a muscle pump in your calves you can hold a dumbell in one hand while doing them. It's an old recipe, but one that I really like. If you can find a workout partner, you might try doing resisted toe-ups to work the tibialis anterior muscle, which is located on the front of your shin.


I think that forearms are extremely difficult to build up personally. Just like calves, what you've been given genetically is a big factor. Persistence will pay off if you approach training them in the manner that best fits you. Positive visualization helps a great deal as well. If you're really serious about building them up it would be worth it to pay a good personal trainer for a session to glean some insight on training tips. Remember that everyone is different and that you might need to personalize your workouts to your particular body type, metabolism, etc.

I never had a problem with triceps however, and I don't really hear that much about it being a problem area...biceps seem to be harder than triceps if the genetics aren't there naturally, but that does not really mean anything specifically. Keep in mind that arm size is probably 60-70% tricep size (if not more) and that biceps are also worked during back exercises.

I think it depends on the person. I am about 40 pounds overweight, and my calves still have very little fat on them. My triceps, on the other hand....well, let's not talk about that. For me, it's definitely the triceps!!

Calves, Forearms and Traps are all used to some degree everyday, atleast more than the other major muscle groups. Everything you manipulate with your hands uses your forearms to an extent, as with calves and walking.

These muscles are used to being bombarded by demanding workloads every single day so it shouldn't come as a suprise that they don't respond to 'normal training'. These muscles usually respond best in a high rep range (16-25) not your classic (6-8 or 10-15), although at times they do respond well to the change.You can try different things but remember if your calves are used to hauling your weight around you have to add more weight to your calve raises and try different variations of each exersice.

For calves there is no point in going in the 12+ rep range. If you think about it you use your calves everyday by walking and that is a lot of reps. Stick to 6-10 reps for calves. Also your form for calves must be good. Be sure to go as low as possible and when you attempt to rise up make sure you squeeze your calves at the top and hold for 1 second. Forearms do respond to the high rep range 10-12... Traps although small should be treated like back.. Hit them hard with reps ranging from 4-8.. Be sure to pyramid once a while.

TTP I agree that for most muscle going higher than 12 rep range is not beneficial for mass building. However, just like Engel said, all muscles for the calf are essential for normal everyday stability, so the problem with a 12 rep limit in this area is that you don't stimulate a maximum amount of muscle fibers. That means that any growth at all will come from the growth of several but not all of the muscle fibers. You have to target the neurology of this muscle group to effect a major change. However, it can be done.

Personally, I use a 12-15 rep range for 2 sets of seated calf raises. Then I use the squat rack and load the bar to do another 2 sets with my toes slightly pigeoned out, then 2 sets with my feet slightly duck toed. After all of this I do 2 sets of resisted toe-ups. This hits all of the muscles of the calf. However, in order to hit as many muscle fibers as I can, I do a couple of sets of standing calf raises on a stairstep with each leg individually for as many reps as possible. As I mentioned earlier, it's bodyweight only when starting out. Although individual results may vary, this is a rather grueling last exercise and has given me the best calf development of anything.

Forearms in my opinion are the same way, when I worked at a loading dock I had to lift 20 lb. buckets of dry construction mix. When my hands got strong enough, I started loading two to each hand, gripping them by the handles using primarily my thumbs and fingers. My forearms grew tremendously from this constant stimulation.

But I think you're right about the 12 rep range for many muscle groups. However, give the one legged calf raises for bodyweight a try for a superset...as many as you can do. Let me know what you think.

[This message has been edited by paper clip (edited 08-06-2001).]

Don't get me wrong, I have tried my own bodyweight to failure and it is painful.. I just haven't seen any growth from it.. Right now I'm training my calves twice a week and pyramiding my sets.. First set I would go 15 reps.. Second set 10-12 Third set 6-8.. That way I'm getting the best of both worlds.. Try pyramiding it works great..

Yes, I agree, a multiple exercise approach for the calves is best. After all, that's what I do. My reply was intended to give a manner in which the hard gainer could add some mass to the calves by way of forcing muscle adaptation to exercise demands. Rep and set scheme can be varied as to best results for the individual. My recommendation for the bodyweight one-legged calf raises does not replace other calf lifts and might not be very effective by itself for building huge calves for everyone. I recommend it be done last after a heavy calf routine so as to trick out as many fibers as possible. So it's not really an end-all be-all for everyone, as much as it could be something to make sure the gains on calves are as much as possible.

In the very least anyone reading this wanting calf training ideas will hopefully come away with some info.

Right on the money Paperclip

Calves and triceps are both hard to build up. Calves (along with abs) can be worked everyday with little fear of muscle fatigue or damage. Since we use our calves everday for walking, you're not going to see results as quickly just from exercising them a couple times a week. Your body builds up muscle as a way to compensate for added stress, so you have to overwork your calves in order to see any added muscle mass. As for arms, women have proportionally less body fat on arms than legs, which is why it's easier to tone your upper arms than your hips/thighs. Others have given advice on traps and forearms, but those are two different muscle groups than you asked about.

For your calves, I definitely agree with several others who have said that seated calf raises are great. Most leg press machines can also be used for calves if you position your feet lower on the board. And finishing off each set with single-leg reps on a stair or raised surface using your own body weight is good to tone and stretch your calves at the same time to prevent strain. As others have said, try 10-15 reps each of 3 different feet positions (normal, pointed in pigeon-toed, pointed out ballerina style) for each exercise. Cardio exercises that involve a lot of jumping and bouncing are very effective too. The key to building calves isn't weight, but repetition.

Some exercises that give quick results for triceps
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overhead tricep extension: Hold a 10lb dumbell by the head with both hands. Raise your arms up beside your ears, and bending at the elbows, lower the dumbell toward your butt. The key is to keep your upper arms steady by your head, only moving at the elbows. Do 3 sets, about 10-15 reps each
tricep raise: Hold a lighter dumbell behind your back with both hands, one hand one each head of the dumbell, so the dumbell is resting on your butt. Bend your body forward at the waist to about a 45 degree angle. Keeping your arms straight behind you and slowly lift the weight upwards towards the ceiling, and then slowly lower down but stop before letting the weight hit your butt. 3 sets, 10-15 reps each (you will really feel this one)
prone rows: These work your upper back too. Lying front down on a bench, hold a medium/heavy dumbell in each hand. Pull both dumbells up with your elbows bent so your triceps are doing all the work. Do one set with your elbows pointing out so your arms make your body look like the letter T. Then do a set with your arms close to your side. 3 sets, 10-15 reps each way
tricep pulldown/pushdown: These are great if you have access to a cable pulley weight machine. Most gyms have a rope pull attahment for these. For the pulldowns keep your arms tight to your sides and pull the rope handles down until your fists are in front of you (your arms are shaped like and L). Start/stop in this position. Slowly pull the rope until your fists are on either side of your thighs, then slowly let back up. For pushdowns, back up a few steps and hold your arms straight out in front of your shoulders like a zombie. Keeping your arms straight and your hands open, palms down, push the rope down to your legs. The key to this is keeping your body completely straight and upright. 3 sets, 10-15 reps each exercise.
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One important tip for your triceps is that you should work your biceps as well. The biceps are the opposing muscles to the triceps, so doing curls, etc. will tone your biceps which will help burn more fat on your arms and help you end up with overall balanced-looking arms. And for calves, try adding a few small changes into your daily life to sneak in "mini-workouts". For instance, while you're brushing your teeth stand on your toes and do calf raises. And when you walk anywhere, make a conscious effort to walk heel to toe completely instead of stepping down your whole foot at one time.

Hope these suggestions and everyone else's advice help you out. Good luck!

I think it was AML who said that working calves every day and such would simply increase risk of injury since a large part of calf size and ability to add muscle mass to calves is based upon genetics. I was working my calves everyday, but after I heard about this, I only did calf exercises on fridays. I currently do standing calf raises, seated calf raises, and calf raises on a leg press machine, 3 sets of 12 on each exercise and each set I have a different foot position (bent in, bent out, and straight).

Anyway, I'm just wondering, should I or should I not be working calves daily?

PS - I don't have the genetics for calves as my calves are fairly small.

If your goal is to have big calves I suggest twice a week at the most..Also how can you possibly say to train your calves everyday? If you know how to work your calves properly then you should be feeling something the next day. Why tear the muscle down even more? Your promoting no growth and inviting injury.

[This message has been edited by TTP (edited 08-08-2001).]

The ultimate shape and overall development potential of any muscle is largely determined by genetics. This is why, if you're a fan of bodybuilding, no two competitors look exactly alike.

With a muscle group like the calves, the ultimate shape is determined by how the muscles are physically attached to your bones. Some people have long attachments which yields "high" calves... which will always look kind of small no matter how hard you train them; there's simply not enough "space" there for your calves to grow into. Regardless, you will not benefit from training your calves more frequently, just concentrate on training them hard.

As for calves vs. tri's... depending on genetics this could go either way. Many women find tri's frustrating, but it's not because of lack of development of the muscle. Rather it's due to fat stores that obscure the muscle. Losing the fat requires an overall nutrition, weight training and cardio regimen... all of the tricep exercises in the world will not spot reduce the fat that's covering the triceps.

Andrew

Well, that answers my question. I work my calves once a week, but i work them VERY well. They are getting bigger, but only slightly and gradually. That's fine with me though.