4support
02-02-2007, 03:30 PM
Hi everyone,
I am interested in hearing from non-BP's who have been married to BP spouses for many years and how you cope with the unpredictability of moods and the neverending struggles that they face without letting it affect your own mental health, how dealing with this disorder has affected you and also your children. My spouse does not like to discuss his behaviour, he is medicated and occasionally goes to therapy, but he still does not like to discuss his mood swings or how it affects us and continues to try to blame his behaviour on someone else. He still does not seem to understand how having a wonderful husband/father one minute and a raving angry/hurtful husband/father the next minute upsets the rest of the family. I would love to open up some communication on this because I think it could help all of us by sharing and because there is such limited information out there to help those of us who really love and try our best to support our BP spouses, but who worry about how their behaviour affects the family. I am really looking for ways to focus and embrace the joy and positives in our lives, not by pretending that the illness doesn't exist, but without allowing the BP ups and downs to have such power over clouding these things over.:angel:
Thank you for all of your insight,
4support
I am interested in hearing from non-BP's who have been married to BP spouses for many years and how you cope with the unpredictability of moods and the neverending struggles that they face without letting it affect your own mental health, how dealing with this disorder has affected you and also your children. My spouse does not like to discuss his behaviour, he is medicated and occasionally goes to therapy, but he still does not like to discuss his mood swings or how it affects us and continues to try to blame his behaviour on someone else. He still does not seem to understand how having a wonderful husband/father one minute and a raving angry/hurtful husband/father the next minute upsets the rest of the family. I would love to open up some communication on this because I think it could help all of us by sharing and because there is such limited information out there to help those of us who really love and try our best to support our BP spouses, but who worry about how their behaviour affects the family. I am really looking for ways to focus and embrace the joy and positives in our lives, not by pretending that the illness doesn't exist, but without allowing the BP ups and downs to have such power over clouding these things over.:angel:
Thank you for all of your insight,
4support
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rosequartz
02-02-2007, 04:16 PM
I was married to a non-medicated BP for 10 years and I can only say that this condition will tear up and destroy a family. That's one reason I never had kids.....I didn't want to raise another generation of abusers. When kids are around that behavior, they learn it. They learn that it's ok to treat people bad, talk to them with no respect, treat them with no respect, and generally be abusive. They also learn that they don't deserve better. They end up with abusive spouses because that's what their non-BP parent did, or they end up as abusers because that's what they learned from their BP parent. I don't think it's a good environment to subject children to, and if you really want them to grow up emotionally healthy you will get them and yourself out of that situation.
I know that's not what you want to hear. You want a solution, I wish I could wave a magic wand, unfortunately I know first hand that you cant. Please protect your children.
:angel:
I know that's not what you want to hear. You want a solution, I wish I could wave a magic wand, unfortunately I know first hand that you cant. Please protect your children.
:angel:
rosequartz
02-02-2007, 04:18 PM
I suggest you read some of the posts from people here.....start with insickness and in health by used and abused.
or search out some posts by distroyed. They will tell you first hand what this does to a family.
or search out some posts by distroyed. They will tell you first hand what this does to a family.
tsohl
02-02-2007, 04:20 PM
Welcome to the board :wave:
I'm sure others will have specific suggestions and thoughts for you. I would like to suggest that you look for the website of NAMI. If you aren't familiar with it, it is a national group that advocates for the mentally ill. They have local chapters all over the country and run support groups, training and education for people with a mental illnesses and their families and caregivers. It is an excellent resource for education , support and referrals. In particular, they offer a free program called "Family to Family." It is a peer-run group that lasts for 12 weeks and covers many topics pertaining to living with someone who is bipolar. You can check it out on their website. There are 39 local chapters in the state of Texas. You can find this on their website also.
Good luck to you.
Tsohl
I'm sure others will have specific suggestions and thoughts for you. I would like to suggest that you look for the website of NAMI. If you aren't familiar with it, it is a national group that advocates for the mentally ill. They have local chapters all over the country and run support groups, training and education for people with a mental illnesses and their families and caregivers. It is an excellent resource for education , support and referrals. In particular, they offer a free program called "Family to Family." It is a peer-run group that lasts for 12 weeks and covers many topics pertaining to living with someone who is bipolar. You can check it out on their website. There are 39 local chapters in the state of Texas. You can find this on their website also.
Good luck to you.
Tsohl
4support
02-02-2007, 04:34 PM
Hi Tsohl, thank you for recommending NAMI - I am active on their website and am looking into the programs and support groups that they have to offer.
Many thanks for the support.
Many thanks for the support.
4support
02-02-2007, 04:48 PM
Hi rosequartz,
I appreciate your straightforwardness and honesty based on your personal experience. I should clarify that my husband is for the most part stabilized, he is medicated, does see a therapist, and we openly communicate to our children when conflict happens. There has been no infidelity and he is not suicidal. However, he does still have mood swings/bad days and depression but says he is committed to working on his own issues to make things better. It seems to be classic that a BP person finds it easier to blame their own issues on someone close to them because of the inner pain and struggles that they experience. I make it a point when he says something hurtful or unkind to tell our children that he is wrong for doing that and that his behaviour is not normal or acceptable and that I do not expect them to act that way. At the advice of the therapist, hopefully being open with them so they are not confused, explaining to them so they do not think it is normal behaviour, will help while their father continues to work on stabilizing his own issues. I make great efforts in protecting my children and will continue to do so. I also have seen the impact breaking a family up has on children, to not have both parents who love them living with them, and many families have other problems (not mental-illness related). So right now, I am trying to save our family, although I realize that he will have to stay committed to being well, and it is a long road. I rely on my faith to keep me strong for my family while I try to work through this.
I appreciate your straightforwardness and honesty based on your personal experience. I should clarify that my husband is for the most part stabilized, he is medicated, does see a therapist, and we openly communicate to our children when conflict happens. There has been no infidelity and he is not suicidal. However, he does still have mood swings/bad days and depression but says he is committed to working on his own issues to make things better. It seems to be classic that a BP person finds it easier to blame their own issues on someone close to them because of the inner pain and struggles that they experience. I make it a point when he says something hurtful or unkind to tell our children that he is wrong for doing that and that his behaviour is not normal or acceptable and that I do not expect them to act that way. At the advice of the therapist, hopefully being open with them so they are not confused, explaining to them so they do not think it is normal behaviour, will help while their father continues to work on stabilizing his own issues. I make great efforts in protecting my children and will continue to do so. I also have seen the impact breaking a family up has on children, to not have both parents who love them living with them, and many families have other problems (not mental-illness related). So right now, I am trying to save our family, although I realize that he will have to stay committed to being well, and it is a long road. I rely on my faith to keep me strong for my family while I try to work through this.
rosequartz
02-02-2007, 04:55 PM
4support - it sounds like your family has a decent shot at working things out. Your husband is medicated, stable, and working on addressing the problem, not blaming it on you. He's in therapy, etc......My God, you sound like you've got half the battle won! :blob_fire
It seems like you are doing everything possible and I commend you and hope that everything works out in your favor. Unfortunately my marriage could not survive a non-medicated BP. If only he would have done 1/2 the things your husband is doing.....we may have had a chance....oh well, what's done is done. I wish you and your family all the best!
:angel:
It seems like you are doing everything possible and I commend you and hope that everything works out in your favor. Unfortunately my marriage could not survive a non-medicated BP. If only he would have done 1/2 the things your husband is doing.....we may have had a chance....oh well, what's done is done. I wish you and your family all the best!
:angel:
4support
02-02-2007, 05:06 PM
Hi rosequartz,
My husband was dx almost 3 yrs ago with BP/ADHD/Sleep Apnea. We have been together 11 yrs and I knew something was very wrong with his behaviour after our second child was born and sure enough there was. If he would not be medicated, the children and I would not be here with him today. I know that in my heart because it would have been intolerable to go on with someone in that state of mind. I always say that Lithium has been a lifesaver in our marriage (Thank God for lithium). I don't think he will ever fully see how bad his behaviour was, but at least he knows there are issues so he is on medication, etc... even with that admittance, he will still be quick to blame conflict on me when his 'moods' are 99% of the time the driver of an argument or escalation of an argument. He still distorts things at times and still struggles with depression and low feelings of self-worth. No matter how you look at it, it's not easy. He is a good father and loves his children. He tries to be a good husband and most of the time succeeds. I know he has a good heart and am just hoping for a successful outcome. I would love to keep our family together, but again he has to keep actively managing his illness.
My husband was dx almost 3 yrs ago with BP/ADHD/Sleep Apnea. We have been together 11 yrs and I knew something was very wrong with his behaviour after our second child was born and sure enough there was. If he would not be medicated, the children and I would not be here with him today. I know that in my heart because it would have been intolerable to go on with someone in that state of mind. I always say that Lithium has been a lifesaver in our marriage (Thank God for lithium). I don't think he will ever fully see how bad his behaviour was, but at least he knows there are issues so he is on medication, etc... even with that admittance, he will still be quick to blame conflict on me when his 'moods' are 99% of the time the driver of an argument or escalation of an argument. He still distorts things at times and still struggles with depression and low feelings of self-worth. No matter how you look at it, it's not easy. He is a good father and loves his children. He tries to be a good husband and most of the time succeeds. I know he has a good heart and am just hoping for a successful outcome. I would love to keep our family together, but again he has to keep actively managing his illness.
marshmallow
02-02-2007, 07:36 PM
4support I think if your husband is on meds it is going to be easier than my case with a person in denial and no meds BUT you still have to be careful that you do not lose who you are and what is important in life and especially your childrens needs. You sound like you have many things under control BUT you do point out that he is great one minute and an angry man the next. I do not think that is healthy for anyone to live with. I am separated from my husband at this time and don't know who I am anymore. I am empty and depleted. Bipolar is a really tough illness to live with meds or not and I thought I was a strong person but it took its toll on me even though we are not living together. No kids here though.
4support
02-03-2007, 11:34 AM
Hi marshmallow,
thank you so much for your words and especially for being so kind to reach out to me even though I know you are going thru your own struggles as well. I am sorry that you and your husband are separated, I wish you strength, direction and many better days ahead. I know this is why I am struggling so, trying to keep ahold of myself and protect my children. I agree with you that BP is very very difficult to live with, meds or not. I am starting to wonder how much meds will really help, without the person being accountable for their own behaviour and the affect it has on their family. Anytime I point out his unacceptable behaviour or words toward me or me in front of the children, he immediately becomes defensive and blames it on me. It is a vicous cycle of conflict that I intend to break because I am just worn down and can't stand for my children to be seeing this. He also can't ever seem to make true progress, even with therapy, he still keeps talking about past incidents where I have been upset with him, instead of moving forward. It's like talking to someone totally out of touch with the current situation. This is such a tragic thing as I really love my husband and so do our children. He just doesn't seem to be anything like what he was when I first met him 11 yrs ago, and it has been a roller coaster with his moods. His family has a history of mental illness and so they seem removed from reality. Most of my living family is overseas and so family support here is lacking, which makes it even harder when trying to deal with this and stay strong for your children. I also believe I am a strong person but it is wearing me down and I feel now as though I am losing strength as I'm trying to keep it all together. I just can't stand the thought with 2 little ones of breaking up own family as I know we would all suffer terribly, the children and me with still loving my husband. I have started going to therapy again for myself, to hopefully gain my strength back.
thank you so much for your words and especially for being so kind to reach out to me even though I know you are going thru your own struggles as well. I am sorry that you and your husband are separated, I wish you strength, direction and many better days ahead. I know this is why I am struggling so, trying to keep ahold of myself and protect my children. I agree with you that BP is very very difficult to live with, meds or not. I am starting to wonder how much meds will really help, without the person being accountable for their own behaviour and the affect it has on their family. Anytime I point out his unacceptable behaviour or words toward me or me in front of the children, he immediately becomes defensive and blames it on me. It is a vicous cycle of conflict that I intend to break because I am just worn down and can't stand for my children to be seeing this. He also can't ever seem to make true progress, even with therapy, he still keeps talking about past incidents where I have been upset with him, instead of moving forward. It's like talking to someone totally out of touch with the current situation. This is such a tragic thing as I really love my husband and so do our children. He just doesn't seem to be anything like what he was when I first met him 11 yrs ago, and it has been a roller coaster with his moods. His family has a history of mental illness and so they seem removed from reality. Most of my living family is overseas and so family support here is lacking, which makes it even harder when trying to deal with this and stay strong for your children. I also believe I am a strong person but it is wearing me down and I feel now as though I am losing strength as I'm trying to keep it all together. I just can't stand the thought with 2 little ones of breaking up own family as I know we would all suffer terribly, the children and me with still loving my husband. I have started going to therapy again for myself, to hopefully gain my strength back.
tsohl
02-03-2007, 12:31 PM
Hello :wave:
If you don't mind me asking, what meds is your husband on?
I think it would help you to get into a support group for families. Talking this over, sharing ideas with peers who have little children could be very helpful. It doesn't sound like your husband would be willing to go to one....
If you don't mind me asking, what meds is your husband on?
I think it would help you to get into a support group for families. Talking this over, sharing ideas with peers who have little children could be very helpful. It doesn't sound like your husband would be willing to go to one....
4support
02-03-2007, 12:53 PM
Hi tsohl,
Thank you for writing again...my husband is on lithium, klonopin as needed for anxiety, and ritalin. I feel he also needs an anti-depressant however he is in another 'interim break' trying to find a new psychiatrist. That is another issue, after great efforts, it seems very hard to find good and affordable mental health care. He was also declined when we went to purchase new life insurance! Does anyone know anything about this and how to find life ins for someone diagnosed as BP? His 1st psychiatrist was very good and then went out of private practice, the next 2 were highly accredited but spent no time with him and didn't appear to listen to what he was trying to tell them about not feeling like he was receiving the help he needed. He now doubts psychiatrists in general (not good) and resists consistent therapy (because he thinks I need it more and he thinks he can 'manage' his illness on his own without therapy), even though he has been advised over and over by his own doc/psych/therapist that he needs therapy to work on his own issues. I did suggest that we look into taking the 'Families to Families' course that NAMI offers and he told me I could take it. One minute he tells me he will commit to making himself better and then the next minute, always depending on his mood, he'll give me a hard time like this. No wonder I'm so worn out!!
Thank you for writing again...my husband is on lithium, klonopin as needed for anxiety, and ritalin. I feel he also needs an anti-depressant however he is in another 'interim break' trying to find a new psychiatrist. That is another issue, after great efforts, it seems very hard to find good and affordable mental health care. He was also declined when we went to purchase new life insurance! Does anyone know anything about this and how to find life ins for someone diagnosed as BP? His 1st psychiatrist was very good and then went out of private practice, the next 2 were highly accredited but spent no time with him and didn't appear to listen to what he was trying to tell them about not feeling like he was receiving the help he needed. He now doubts psychiatrists in general (not good) and resists consistent therapy (because he thinks I need it more and he thinks he can 'manage' his illness on his own without therapy), even though he has been advised over and over by his own doc/psych/therapist that he needs therapy to work on his own issues. I did suggest that we look into taking the 'Families to Families' course that NAMI offers and he told me I could take it. One minute he tells me he will commit to making himself better and then the next minute, always depending on his mood, he'll give me a hard time like this. No wonder I'm so worn out!!
4support
02-03-2007, 01:01 PM
Hi again tsohl,
I see that you are a senior veteran and have some wonderful and supportive insight based on your own experiences. I appreciate all that you can share with me as I am trying to continue my education on BP and manage my own issues with living with a BP husband. My biggest concerns right now are over long term affects of his behaviour on us, myself and our children. At times, it just seems ridiculous to continue to try to live with someone like this. I'm all for a good challenge, but this has been the challenge of my life. Can you share with me how dealing with this illness has affected you?
I see that you are a senior veteran and have some wonderful and supportive insight based on your own experiences. I appreciate all that you can share with me as I am trying to continue my education on BP and manage my own issues with living with a BP husband. My biggest concerns right now are over long term affects of his behaviour on us, myself and our children. At times, it just seems ridiculous to continue to try to live with someone like this. I'm all for a good challenge, but this has been the challenge of my life. Can you share with me how dealing with this illness has affected you?
tsohl
02-03-2007, 03:07 PM
I'm happy to share what I know. Let me just say that you get to be a Senior Veteran pretty fast around here!! :eek: I know what I know from a mom's perspective. The rest I have picked up from doing lots of reading and research. I'm not sure how much I can add to your situation as I've never been in a situation where I was in a relationship with someone who is BP.
Have you been reading through the various threads on this board? There are a number of people who are in the process of splitting with their spouses. It is interesting reading, but probably not what you need at this point.
It sounds like your husband would be willing to work with someone if he could find the right pdoc. He hasn't totally turned his back on his diagnosis, or of finding help.
I'll go back and read through your posts to refresh my memory. Did you say how old are your children? And has your husband always been bipolar since you've known him? Do you live in an area where you have some choices regarding psychiatric care?
I do agree that you have no business putting yourself and your children through a life of living with someone who is not on meds and who is not working hard to control his illness to the fullest extent possible.
Somehow he needs to realize that it is not productive to dwell on the past. How this happens, I don't know.
Take care.
Tsohl
Have you been reading through the various threads on this board? There are a number of people who are in the process of splitting with their spouses. It is interesting reading, but probably not what you need at this point.
It sounds like your husband would be willing to work with someone if he could find the right pdoc. He hasn't totally turned his back on his diagnosis, or of finding help.
I'll go back and read through your posts to refresh my memory. Did you say how old are your children? And has your husband always been bipolar since you've known him? Do you live in an area where you have some choices regarding psychiatric care?
I do agree that you have no business putting yourself and your children through a life of living with someone who is not on meds and who is not working hard to control his illness to the fullest extent possible.
Somehow he needs to realize that it is not productive to dwell on the past. How this happens, I don't know.
Take care.
Tsohl
tsohl
02-03-2007, 05:04 PM
One more thing: Are you familiar with the book "Loving Someone with Bipolar Disorder" by Julia Fast and another author who's name escapes me at the moment? You might find some useful suggestions in there.
It sounds to me like your husband has only partially accepted his diagnosis and perhaps questions it a bit. It also sounds to me like his medications are not quite working. I would suggest that you or he keep a mood chart. Has this been suggested to you by a pdoc? It really is very helpful and you can use it to see triggers, how meds are working, any patterns that might be there, etc. He may very well need more than one mood stabilizer. My son takes 3, but it has eliminated the need for any anti-depressant.
This illness is very frustrating in that there is a full spectrum of symptoms that vary so much from patient to patient. Some pdocs are better at understanding it than others. My son was diagnosed when he was a junior in college, but I'm sure he was dealing with it from the age of about 9th grade. For the most part he was able to manage it, cover it. He was put on lithium which helped about 80% and he lived with it for several years. Then after he graduated and moved back to WI he had a new pdoc and he started on a long parade of different meds. His pdoc changed his meds every month when my son told him how he was feeling. Eventually he found a different pdoc who had a good understanding of how to combine neuropharmaceuticals and they began tinkering and eventually found that combination that allows my son to feel stable and well with few side effects. This took patience on my son's part but he perservered, as did the doctor. He has now been on the same meds for over a year with no changes. The pdoc has told him if he continues progressing as fast as he has, that in about another year's time he can wean him off two of the three drugs and he will be left taking one, which he'll need for the rest of his life. (he's 25 now)
I tell you this to provide some encouragement. This illness can be managed and the patient, when properly medicated can live life to his/her full potential. But it is something that requires the patient's full attention and compliance. You have to be committed to it, just like you would if you were diabetic.
The flip side is that if a patient refuses treatment, believeing s/he can handle it without meds, the episodes almost always get worse, more severe, start to come closer together and actually cause changes in part of the brain that doctors can see on a brain scan.
Well, enough for now. Feel free to ask questions, if there's anything I can help with. I think there is every chance that you can resolve your issues and keep your family together. But your husband is going to have to take the lead on this. You can't force him into managing his illness. He has to want to do it and has to realize that it is necessary for him to do it for his sake, as well as your's.
Tsohl
It sounds to me like your husband has only partially accepted his diagnosis and perhaps questions it a bit. It also sounds to me like his medications are not quite working. I would suggest that you or he keep a mood chart. Has this been suggested to you by a pdoc? It really is very helpful and you can use it to see triggers, how meds are working, any patterns that might be there, etc. He may very well need more than one mood stabilizer. My son takes 3, but it has eliminated the need for any anti-depressant.
This illness is very frustrating in that there is a full spectrum of symptoms that vary so much from patient to patient. Some pdocs are better at understanding it than others. My son was diagnosed when he was a junior in college, but I'm sure he was dealing with it from the age of about 9th grade. For the most part he was able to manage it, cover it. He was put on lithium which helped about 80% and he lived with it for several years. Then after he graduated and moved back to WI he had a new pdoc and he started on a long parade of different meds. His pdoc changed his meds every month when my son told him how he was feeling. Eventually he found a different pdoc who had a good understanding of how to combine neuropharmaceuticals and they began tinkering and eventually found that combination that allows my son to feel stable and well with few side effects. This took patience on my son's part but he perservered, as did the doctor. He has now been on the same meds for over a year with no changes. The pdoc has told him if he continues progressing as fast as he has, that in about another year's time he can wean him off two of the three drugs and he will be left taking one, which he'll need for the rest of his life. (he's 25 now)
I tell you this to provide some encouragement. This illness can be managed and the patient, when properly medicated can live life to his/her full potential. But it is something that requires the patient's full attention and compliance. You have to be committed to it, just like you would if you were diabetic.
The flip side is that if a patient refuses treatment, believeing s/he can handle it without meds, the episodes almost always get worse, more severe, start to come closer together and actually cause changes in part of the brain that doctors can see on a brain scan.
Well, enough for now. Feel free to ask questions, if there's anything I can help with. I think there is every chance that you can resolve your issues and keep your family together. But your husband is going to have to take the lead on this. You can't force him into managing his illness. He has to want to do it and has to realize that it is necessary for him to do it for his sake, as well as your's.
Tsohl
jules3
02-03-2007, 11:16 PM
4support,
my son is 20 and bipolar..he too takes lithium, klonopin for anxiety and he is also taking prozac now for a couple of weeks. he also suffers from depression. he is doing well on the lithium. but he felt like he needed an antidepressant . i got kinda nervous when he went on prozac because i wasnt sure how he would react. hes been on just antidepressants before and had an episode which i guess triggered his pdoc to put him on lithium. maybe your husband should try lamictal. i hear so many good things about it on this board. do you ever go to his pdoc sesssions? i dont know, i think its important for family members to be able to talk to pdocs about the person they are living with. am i wrong? i know all about the hipa privacy laws. but if they have the patients ok than they will speak to you. good luck and keep posting!!
my son is 20 and bipolar..he too takes lithium, klonopin for anxiety and he is also taking prozac now for a couple of weeks. he also suffers from depression. he is doing well on the lithium. but he felt like he needed an antidepressant . i got kinda nervous when he went on prozac because i wasnt sure how he would react. hes been on just antidepressants before and had an episode which i guess triggered his pdoc to put him on lithium. maybe your husband should try lamictal. i hear so many good things about it on this board. do you ever go to his pdoc sesssions? i dont know, i think its important for family members to be able to talk to pdocs about the person they are living with. am i wrong? i know all about the hipa privacy laws. but if they have the patients ok than they will speak to you. good luck and keep posting!!
4support
02-04-2007, 12:36 PM
Hi tsohl,
I keep praying that we'll find the right pdoc for my husband. It's frustrating with 3 pdocs behind him already, but my concern is that he seems to increasingly call all pdocs a "crock" and believes that there is no one out there to help him and that they are all the same. Is negativity another part of BP? He is always very negative, another difficult thing to live with as I am overall a very positive and optimistic person. I love life and he seems to be 'down on life' much of the time. I also wonder if the lithium is losing its effect and I know that it can over time, and a new mix of meds may be needed. He becomes defensive if I suggest any of this to him and tells me "I am not his doctor". I think the mood chart is a great idea, will try that and maybe the therapist can encourage it to him. You are right that my husband accepts his illness part of the time and then questions it part of the time because he says you "can't see a hard diagnosis" without concrete evidence! There is also a family history here in his case. You asked the ages of our children, they are young, 2.5 and 5.5. My husband was dx over 2.5 yrs ago after I delivered our second baby. His behaviour was horrible at that time and I knew something was so wrong. We had already been together over 7 yrs, now almost 11. He was always very moody and went from hyper to seemingly down the entire time I have known him. I just didn't know what was really brewing up until the dx 2.5 yrs ago. It makes more sense now why his behaviour was always to the extreme, although he still likes to blame early conflicts in the relationship on me when I remember his moods being the trigger most of the time. I will buy the book you suggested, there is another one that I would like to get "The BP survival handbook". Have you read that one? Thank you for sharing your experiences with me, and for the encouragement. I will keep posting!!
I keep praying that we'll find the right pdoc for my husband. It's frustrating with 3 pdocs behind him already, but my concern is that he seems to increasingly call all pdocs a "crock" and believes that there is no one out there to help him and that they are all the same. Is negativity another part of BP? He is always very negative, another difficult thing to live with as I am overall a very positive and optimistic person. I love life and he seems to be 'down on life' much of the time. I also wonder if the lithium is losing its effect and I know that it can over time, and a new mix of meds may be needed. He becomes defensive if I suggest any of this to him and tells me "I am not his doctor". I think the mood chart is a great idea, will try that and maybe the therapist can encourage it to him. You are right that my husband accepts his illness part of the time and then questions it part of the time because he says you "can't see a hard diagnosis" without concrete evidence! There is also a family history here in his case. You asked the ages of our children, they are young, 2.5 and 5.5. My husband was dx over 2.5 yrs ago after I delivered our second baby. His behaviour was horrible at that time and I knew something was so wrong. We had already been together over 7 yrs, now almost 11. He was always very moody and went from hyper to seemingly down the entire time I have known him. I just didn't know what was really brewing up until the dx 2.5 yrs ago. It makes more sense now why his behaviour was always to the extreme, although he still likes to blame early conflicts in the relationship on me when I remember his moods being the trigger most of the time. I will buy the book you suggested, there is another one that I would like to get "The BP survival handbook". Have you read that one? Thank you for sharing your experiences with me, and for the encouragement. I will keep posting!!
4support
02-04-2007, 12:44 PM
Hi jules3,
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with loving someone with BP. I really do love to hear the success stories, although I know this illness can wear on you and not always sure what the outcome will be. It is scary to think of this being a lifelong challenge, with possible changes all thru. I hear what you are saying about new meds 'triggering' episodes, that happened to my husband when he was put on an anti-depressant a year ago, in addition to the lithium. I felt the same fear when he was started on Ritalin (for his ADHD), in addition to the lithium, although so far it's been OK. I am most concerned about the lithium losing its effect, as it may be already?? When he finally finds a new pdoc, I will see if he'll talk to him about maybe trying lamictal. Half the time my husband will talk to me openly about his feelings/meds/illness, and sometimes he won't and gets defensive. He tells me that I can come to his pdoc appts anytime, then he tells me that I don't need to be there, that he will manage it 'on his own'. It's very frustrating and very hard to help the person you love when they are so resistant to it, but then they need it more than anything at the same time. This illness really throws you for a loop! Thank you again.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with loving someone with BP. I really do love to hear the success stories, although I know this illness can wear on you and not always sure what the outcome will be. It is scary to think of this being a lifelong challenge, with possible changes all thru. I hear what you are saying about new meds 'triggering' episodes, that happened to my husband when he was put on an anti-depressant a year ago, in addition to the lithium. I felt the same fear when he was started on Ritalin (for his ADHD), in addition to the lithium, although so far it's been OK. I am most concerned about the lithium losing its effect, as it may be already?? When he finally finds a new pdoc, I will see if he'll talk to him about maybe trying lamictal. Half the time my husband will talk to me openly about his feelings/meds/illness, and sometimes he won't and gets defensive. He tells me that I can come to his pdoc appts anytime, then he tells me that I don't need to be there, that he will manage it 'on his own'. It's very frustrating and very hard to help the person you love when they are so resistant to it, but then they need it more than anything at the same time. This illness really throws you for a loop! Thank you again.
jules3
02-04-2007, 02:04 PM
4SUPPORT, i was told by my sons doctor that when people are indenial about their illness, they wont take the meds prescribed..some form of control..are you sure they hes taking his litium as prescribed? can he be skipping doses..my son takes it 3x a day but he has been forgetting his last dose and his levels were low..does he get regular blood tests to check his lithium levels?
4support
02-04-2007, 02:33 PM
Hi jules3,
It's a funny thing, he is in denial half the time but says he'll continue to take his lithium because he knows it helps him. I see him take most of his doses, although I don't monitor it, I know his bottles run out around the right times. He tells the therapist that he does take his meds regularly and on time. When he has his levels checked, they are within range. One hard thing is that when you don't have a regular pdoc or one that he feels has the actual time to spend with him, any changes at home for the worse may be ignored, and the meds won't be changed. I really do see some significant issues with the pdoc scenario. I mean, how do you get a true picture of what is going on with the person and at home in a 5-10 med-check session?? I feel my husband could be further along in his wellness if he just had a really good pdoc to help, someone who will listen to him, try new med combinations if necessary, and someone that I feel I could talk to as well.
It's a funny thing, he is in denial half the time but says he'll continue to take his lithium because he knows it helps him. I see him take most of his doses, although I don't monitor it, I know his bottles run out around the right times. He tells the therapist that he does take his meds regularly and on time. When he has his levels checked, they are within range. One hard thing is that when you don't have a regular pdoc or one that he feels has the actual time to spend with him, any changes at home for the worse may be ignored, and the meds won't be changed. I really do see some significant issues with the pdoc scenario. I mean, how do you get a true picture of what is going on with the person and at home in a 5-10 med-check session?? I feel my husband could be further along in his wellness if he just had a really good pdoc to help, someone who will listen to him, try new med combinations if necessary, and someone that I feel I could talk to as well.
tsohl
02-04-2007, 02:33 PM
Hi 4support,
It is entirely possible that your hubbie needs something in addition to lithium, another mood stabilizer. The lithium seems to be working well at first, because you notice a difference in behavior and mood. But as time goes on, you feel it isn't working as well...probably because the brain has adjusted to it a bit but still needs more to get back to what we'd consider "normal."
I may have already written this to you, if so sorry. My son was on lithium alone for several years and he did better on it but wasn't helped altogether. He was still quite depressed. He is currently on 3 mood stabilizers -- lithium, Lamictal and tegretol. He was on an anti-depressant and something else as well, but now he only needs the mood stabilizers. The Lamicatal was the "missing link" for him...and he now has been stable for almost 2 years. I didn't understand the combining of drugs at first, esp. 3 mood stabilizers...but it makes sense when you think that each works slightly differently and depending on what your brain is missing, you might need a little bit of this and a little bit of that....don't you love my scientific explanation :dizzy: (I was an art major, sorry!!). It allows the pdoc to use less of a particular drug when he can combine drugs.
Have you looked into whether there is a NAMI chapter near you? I would highly recommend that you take your husband up on his offer, and you go to the Family to Family program. Perhaps after a couple weeks he will decide to go along and see what it's all about. If not, you've lost nothing; you're better educated and know better how to look for a good pdoc, how to talk to him/her, how to advocate for your loved one, how to navigate the mental health and insurances business, etc. Plus you will make new friends who are in the same or a similar boat as you. I have a friend who recently took the course. She is a nurse by training; her husband is a physician. She has been very involved in NAMI for years, even attends the national meetings every year. Even with all her knowledge and experience, she got lots out of the course. I'm pretty sure you will come back to this board and thank me for encouraging you to take the program :D
This program would also help you find a new pdoc. Just by meeting a lot of people you will be exposed to a variety of pdocs' names, reputations, etc. Ask everyone you meet who they go to, what they think of him/her, whatever you need to know.
In addition to attending the Family to Family or Peer to Peer program, I would quietly start to keep a diary and a chart of your husband's moods and behaviors. It doesn't need to be elaborate or lengthy. Just jot down the center and then if he is depressed, agitated, angry, somewhat manic, whether he is sleeping a lot or a little. Try to also jot down what else is going on at the time that might eventually prove to be a trigger. What stressors are present, etc. Is your husband able to work?
Well, all for now. Another book I recommend is "Surviving ManicDepression" by E. Fuller Torrey and Michael B. Knable. As a matter of fact, maybe your husband would be more receptive to the term "manic depression" rather than bipolar. My son feels it is much more descriptive of what he feels (well, used to feel -- as I mentioned, he is stable now;) ) He didn't feel he was at one or the other pole. He was in the vast middle, swinging wildly back and forth, sometimes feeling both at the same time.
Take care, :wave:
Tsohl
It is entirely possible that your hubbie needs something in addition to lithium, another mood stabilizer. The lithium seems to be working well at first, because you notice a difference in behavior and mood. But as time goes on, you feel it isn't working as well...probably because the brain has adjusted to it a bit but still needs more to get back to what we'd consider "normal."
I may have already written this to you, if so sorry. My son was on lithium alone for several years and he did better on it but wasn't helped altogether. He was still quite depressed. He is currently on 3 mood stabilizers -- lithium, Lamictal and tegretol. He was on an anti-depressant and something else as well, but now he only needs the mood stabilizers. The Lamicatal was the "missing link" for him...and he now has been stable for almost 2 years. I didn't understand the combining of drugs at first, esp. 3 mood stabilizers...but it makes sense when you think that each works slightly differently and depending on what your brain is missing, you might need a little bit of this and a little bit of that....don't you love my scientific explanation :dizzy: (I was an art major, sorry!!). It allows the pdoc to use less of a particular drug when he can combine drugs.
Have you looked into whether there is a NAMI chapter near you? I would highly recommend that you take your husband up on his offer, and you go to the Family to Family program. Perhaps after a couple weeks he will decide to go along and see what it's all about. If not, you've lost nothing; you're better educated and know better how to look for a good pdoc, how to talk to him/her, how to advocate for your loved one, how to navigate the mental health and insurances business, etc. Plus you will make new friends who are in the same or a similar boat as you. I have a friend who recently took the course. She is a nurse by training; her husband is a physician. She has been very involved in NAMI for years, even attends the national meetings every year. Even with all her knowledge and experience, she got lots out of the course. I'm pretty sure you will come back to this board and thank me for encouraging you to take the program :D
This program would also help you find a new pdoc. Just by meeting a lot of people you will be exposed to a variety of pdocs' names, reputations, etc. Ask everyone you meet who they go to, what they think of him/her, whatever you need to know.
In addition to attending the Family to Family or Peer to Peer program, I would quietly start to keep a diary and a chart of your husband's moods and behaviors. It doesn't need to be elaborate or lengthy. Just jot down the center and then if he is depressed, agitated, angry, somewhat manic, whether he is sleeping a lot or a little. Try to also jot down what else is going on at the time that might eventually prove to be a trigger. What stressors are present, etc. Is your husband able to work?
Well, all for now. Another book I recommend is "Surviving ManicDepression" by E. Fuller Torrey and Michael B. Knable. As a matter of fact, maybe your husband would be more receptive to the term "manic depression" rather than bipolar. My son feels it is much more descriptive of what he feels (well, used to feel -- as I mentioned, he is stable now;) ) He didn't feel he was at one or the other pole. He was in the vast middle, swinging wildly back and forth, sometimes feeling both at the same time.
Take care, :wave:
Tsohl
jules3
02-04-2007, 04:16 PM
4SUPPORT, It sounds like he needs a new pdoc. easier said than done..lets face it they are expensive and you probably need to find one in your medical plan..am i right? around here where i live, alot of the best pdocs do not accept any insurance at all. my son goes now every other week but was going weekly for along time.. yesterday at his visit the doc asked him when do you want to come back? my son said in 2 weeks..i asked him why he coudnt go a little longer he replied that he feels better when he knows his appt. is not that far away..i guess its a security thing. It does sound like he is taking his lithium at the correct dosage. Ts is probably right and he needs something else in addition. good luck! keep us posted :rolleyes:
jules3
02-04-2007, 04:18 PM
4support, i always check after i post...i should have said it sounds like your husband is taking the right dosage and probably need something added..:wave:
bipolarbear
02-04-2007, 09:10 PM
My spouse is not only an unmedicated BP but someone who will never, ever acknowledge there is anything wrong. In retrospect and looking back over the last 10 - 12 years, I can see and remember incidents and periods of time when he was in mania. However, back then, it was easily camouflaged as bursts of energy, being extra busy/productive, etc. As time went on, the contrasts in behavior became more evident, and I would ask myself questions, such as, why didn't he ever want to do anything, go anywhere, participate, why was he emotionally detached, withdrawn, never speaking, defensive, etc. vs. the times when he would be non-stop for a duration of time, building this, fixing that, 20 things at once and often simultaneously. It only became crystal clear what I was up against in the last four years. That is when I started documenting cycles, the length of time, etc. It got down to where I could confidently predict when he would go into another manic phase within a couple weeks. Each episode, however, did worsen, the behavior got more menacing, the "D" word would be thrown all over the place. It was hell, and that is only a fraction of what the cycle entailed. Spouse is currently in mania and is going on sixth month with no end in sight. It has definitely escalated, divorce papers were served; out all hours of the night - every night - still works during the day and continues to exist on a couple/few hours of sleep. Completely disengaged and alienated from family; walks around us like we're not here, until he takes off for another 16 hours. It's hopeless and senseless dealing with someone in this condition, absolutely hopeless. You have a lot more going for your situation and family because your husband takes medication and at least partially acknowledges his illness. All in all, medicated or not, you're in for for a long, hard road, my friend. I hate to sound cynical; I prefer realistic. It is what it is; it destroys families, delicate egos, hope, spirits, nervous systems and your own mental stability. Think long and hard and have a Plan B.
4support
02-05-2007, 06:31 PM
Hi jules3,
yes, you are right, finding the 'right' pdoc has not been easy. My husband has already seen 3, the first one he liked when out of private practice, the next 2 were not the right ones for him. many of them do not accept insurance anymore here in TX either, and that amazes me because as it is, mental health benefits only come with group insurance. On top of that, there is such a great need for better mental health care and I don't understand how doctors who truly care think everyone can empty their pockets like that every other week/every month for one 10-minute appt! It's been very frustrating and I get more and more concerned because everytime my husband has a bad experience trying to find a pdoc, he gets further and further away from believing that he even needs one. He thinks it's all a joke. I just know that him being unmedicated would never work for our family, his behaviour before the lithium was horrible. He's not even totally stable being medicated. He's still moody and has issues within himself that it appears I will never be able to help him with. Things go along great for a while, but he's definetely more 'on edge' than anyone else I know. I can't wait until he finds another pdoc!!
yes, you are right, finding the 'right' pdoc has not been easy. My husband has already seen 3, the first one he liked when out of private practice, the next 2 were not the right ones for him. many of them do not accept insurance anymore here in TX either, and that amazes me because as it is, mental health benefits only come with group insurance. On top of that, there is such a great need for better mental health care and I don't understand how doctors who truly care think everyone can empty their pockets like that every other week/every month for one 10-minute appt! It's been very frustrating and I get more and more concerned because everytime my husband has a bad experience trying to find a pdoc, he gets further and further away from believing that he even needs one. He thinks it's all a joke. I just know that him being unmedicated would never work for our family, his behaviour before the lithium was horrible. He's not even totally stable being medicated. He's still moody and has issues within himself that it appears I will never be able to help him with. Things go along great for a while, but he's definetely more 'on edge' than anyone else I know. I can't wait until he finds another pdoc!!
4support
02-05-2007, 07:08 PM
Hi TahoeOne,
Thank you for sharing with me. I am so sorry for your family in this situation but you sound like you reached a point of no return and knew that nothing was going to help this man who refused to help himself. Honestly, I don't know how anyone could live with an unmedicated BP for very long. I know that if my husband were not medicated, there is no way we would be able to live with him. What amazed me is that his behaviour was like that for over a year 1/2 before he was dx and he still refused to believe there was anything wrong with him and tried to blame all the conflict on me, when something was CLEARLY wrong with him. I walked around on eggshells (and still do at times) to try not to 'make him mad' and chaos would still break out. He was staying up all night long 'working' on a business idea that would never progress. He was totally manic and out of control, he would never stop talking and wouldn't make sense 1/2 the time, I could not talk to him or approach him to talk about anything, he was always angry and on edge, yelling and very negative and he didn't seem to have irrational thinking about anything. He distorted conversations and anything stressful became a nightmare with him. I have read and educated myself and been to therapy to deal with this illness and know how it is supposed to help by being supportive and learn when to leave them alone, etc...but it's still not a natural way to respond to most of these situations. The anger is still there and the words are still hurled. I have been a very supportive, patient and encouraging wife but I don't think he recognizes it. It just hurts because I feel I have had to pick up the slack for so long about what he hasn't been able to do. I have to skirt around him and protect our children by trying to explain to them about their dad's unpredictable behaviour. I am most concerned with both myself and my children staying emotionally healthy...and the therapist says this illness can be "normalized" with the right meds/treatment and if the person accepts help. If you don't mind me asking, how old are your children? Did your husband ever see a therapist or pdoc? I am still trying to figure out why my husband accepts the illness one minute and questions the dx the next. It would make it much easier on us if he would just accept it 100% so he could embrace people trying to help him. I really love my husband (and I know everyone in this post has loved their spouses), but to me, this illness is scary because of the unpredictability of the behaviour when everything is going along great, and because it seems that stability is a neverending process to attain at this point.
Thank you for sharing with me. I am so sorry for your family in this situation but you sound like you reached a point of no return and knew that nothing was going to help this man who refused to help himself. Honestly, I don't know how anyone could live with an unmedicated BP for very long. I know that if my husband were not medicated, there is no way we would be able to live with him. What amazed me is that his behaviour was like that for over a year 1/2 before he was dx and he still refused to believe there was anything wrong with him and tried to blame all the conflict on me, when something was CLEARLY wrong with him. I walked around on eggshells (and still do at times) to try not to 'make him mad' and chaos would still break out. He was staying up all night long 'working' on a business idea that would never progress. He was totally manic and out of control, he would never stop talking and wouldn't make sense 1/2 the time, I could not talk to him or approach him to talk about anything, he was always angry and on edge, yelling and very negative and he didn't seem to have irrational thinking about anything. He distorted conversations and anything stressful became a nightmare with him. I have read and educated myself and been to therapy to deal with this illness and know how it is supposed to help by being supportive and learn when to leave them alone, etc...but it's still not a natural way to respond to most of these situations. The anger is still there and the words are still hurled. I have been a very supportive, patient and encouraging wife but I don't think he recognizes it. It just hurts because I feel I have had to pick up the slack for so long about what he hasn't been able to do. I have to skirt around him and protect our children by trying to explain to them about their dad's unpredictable behaviour. I am most concerned with both myself and my children staying emotionally healthy...and the therapist says this illness can be "normalized" with the right meds/treatment and if the person accepts help. If you don't mind me asking, how old are your children? Did your husband ever see a therapist or pdoc? I am still trying to figure out why my husband accepts the illness one minute and questions the dx the next. It would make it much easier on us if he would just accept it 100% so he could embrace people trying to help him. I really love my husband (and I know everyone in this post has loved their spouses), but to me, this illness is scary because of the unpredictability of the behaviour when everything is going along great, and because it seems that stability is a neverending process to attain at this point.
4support
02-05-2007, 07:41 PM
Hi tsohl,
You have a way of explaining things that is so insightful, thank you. Well, let's see...I agree with you that my husband may need either a different mood stabilizer, or maybe addt'l ones. The first step for him is to find a new pdoc, one that he will hopefully like and feel comfortable with. It makes absolute sense what you are saying about noticing a change in mood/behaviour when they first start taking lithium. I just think my husband is more 'on edge' and argumentative again, more like before he started the lithium, which makes me wonder if it is as effective. Do you know if it is supposed to be EFFECTIVE as long as their levels are on target??
You mentioned that your son has been stable for almost 2 years. Do you feel then that stability is an attainable thing with the right med combination for years at a time? I know that this illness can change over time. One of my concerns is that the goal of 'stability' will be a neverending battle. It really is exhausting dealing with the mood changes my husband has, then the 'denial' by him that he is having the mood changes, then coaxing him to see a pdoc, he doesn't want to talk about his medications (although he takes them), go to therapy, work on helping himself and bringing peace to the family again, etc...then, of course, if I gently try to share my concerns on his behaviour with him, he immediately gets defensive and blames everything on me. It's becoming very annoying.
There is a NAMI chapter near me, although no 'Families to Families' program near us yet. You are so right about networking thru NAMI! I am going to get involved. I have read EXCELLENT things about the Families program. I just hope he will decide to go with me.
I am going to start tracking the mood changes as well, and I am going to talk to the therapist about encouraging my husband to track his own (not sure if he'll be honest though). I learned that most people do "recognize" their own behaviour and continue to be shocked that he doesn't see how some of his is unacceptable. Life always has stressors and we all have to learn to manage them. Stress is a HUGE trigger for him (small stressors). I worry about if we had to deal with a BIG stressor, will he just go off the edge?? To answer your ?, yes my husband works but is miserable with his job. He says he feels like he is in a 'rut' and doesn't want to make any changes until he thinks his meds are right. He's been in this situation for 4 years with no change!!
I will also get the book you suggested. Have a couple of others on the way, will have plenty of reading material and I will try to pass them on to him when I'm finished!
Thank you again, tsohl!
4support
You have a way of explaining things that is so insightful, thank you. Well, let's see...I agree with you that my husband may need either a different mood stabilizer, or maybe addt'l ones. The first step for him is to find a new pdoc, one that he will hopefully like and feel comfortable with. It makes absolute sense what you are saying about noticing a change in mood/behaviour when they first start taking lithium. I just think my husband is more 'on edge' and argumentative again, more like before he started the lithium, which makes me wonder if it is as effective. Do you know if it is supposed to be EFFECTIVE as long as their levels are on target??
You mentioned that your son has been stable for almost 2 years. Do you feel then that stability is an attainable thing with the right med combination for years at a time? I know that this illness can change over time. One of my concerns is that the goal of 'stability' will be a neverending battle. It really is exhausting dealing with the mood changes my husband has, then the 'denial' by him that he is having the mood changes, then coaxing him to see a pdoc, he doesn't want to talk about his medications (although he takes them), go to therapy, work on helping himself and bringing peace to the family again, etc...then, of course, if I gently try to share my concerns on his behaviour with him, he immediately gets defensive and blames everything on me. It's becoming very annoying.
There is a NAMI chapter near me, although no 'Families to Families' program near us yet. You are so right about networking thru NAMI! I am going to get involved. I have read EXCELLENT things about the Families program. I just hope he will decide to go with me.
I am going to start tracking the mood changes as well, and I am going to talk to the therapist about encouraging my husband to track his own (not sure if he'll be honest though). I learned that most people do "recognize" their own behaviour and continue to be shocked that he doesn't see how some of his is unacceptable. Life always has stressors and we all have to learn to manage them. Stress is a HUGE trigger for him (small stressors). I worry about if we had to deal with a BIG stressor, will he just go off the edge?? To answer your ?, yes my husband works but is miserable with his job. He says he feels like he is in a 'rut' and doesn't want to make any changes until he thinks his meds are right. He's been in this situation for 4 years with no change!!
I will also get the book you suggested. Have a couple of others on the way, will have plenty of reading material and I will try to pass them on to him when I'm finished!
Thank you again, tsohl!
4support
tsohl
02-05-2007, 10:29 PM
Hi 4support,
I'm glad you looked into NAMI and am sorry there isn't a Family to Family program. I hope they have some support groups that will be helpful to you.
I know there was a lady on the board who recently passed away that had been stable on lithium alone for the past 23 years. Perhaps your husband needs a bit more than he has now, but I'm betting he needs something in addition to it.
The management of BP is a lifetime activity, and you are right, the illness can change as "life" happens. I imagine there could be some very stressful situation that could shake my son's stability, but I believe it would take something really huge to do it. As the months go by, he gets more and more stable. And you do get used to managing BP, just like a diabetic adjusts to having to take insulin.
You know, I'm having trouble reading your intentions for your marriage. I can't tell if you want encouragement to continue on or to get out of it before you invest a lot more time and effort. Sorry if I am being blunt. I guess I could make a case for either action. Your life is never going to be easy or simple. If you don't mind me asking, what does your marriage mean to your husband? Does he want to remain married?
I had no idea before joining this board how lucky I am that my son is accepting of his diagnosis and 100% compliant with his therapy. I had no idea what a common problem this is. That being the case, I don't have any good suggestions to give you about getting your husband to understand and recognize his behavior. I do remember when my son was manic. There was no way to reason with him. He was right. End of discussion. There would have been no way for me to get him to take meds or go to therapy, etc. He had to decide that that's what he needed to do.
When the bipolar individual is not sufficiently medicated, small stressors are enough to trigger an episode. When you get your books, you can read about kindling. If your husband was untreated for a number of years, this may be what's going on with him. It takes less and less to set off an episode as the years go by.
Have you read "The Unquiet Mind" by Kay Redfield Jamison? I highly recommend this book. When Kay was in med. school she had a mental breakdown, was hospitalized and was finally diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She'd known something was wrong for years, but had never been treated. She now teaches and does research at Johns Hopkins, and is a leading expert in bipolar disorder!! This is the book our son gave to us to read when he told us he was bipolar, and he gives it to a few friends when he wants them to understand what it's like to be bipolar. It kind of helps you understand what it must be like to have disordered thought and uncontrolled emotion.
Well, I'll stop before I write a chapter in my book! I'm always happy to try to answer your questions.
Take care, my friend.
Tsohl
I'm glad you looked into NAMI and am sorry there isn't a Family to Family program. I hope they have some support groups that will be helpful to you.
I know there was a lady on the board who recently passed away that had been stable on lithium alone for the past 23 years. Perhaps your husband needs a bit more than he has now, but I'm betting he needs something in addition to it.
The management of BP is a lifetime activity, and you are right, the illness can change as "life" happens. I imagine there could be some very stressful situation that could shake my son's stability, but I believe it would take something really huge to do it. As the months go by, he gets more and more stable. And you do get used to managing BP, just like a diabetic adjusts to having to take insulin.
You know, I'm having trouble reading your intentions for your marriage. I can't tell if you want encouragement to continue on or to get out of it before you invest a lot more time and effort. Sorry if I am being blunt. I guess I could make a case for either action. Your life is never going to be easy or simple. If you don't mind me asking, what does your marriage mean to your husband? Does he want to remain married?
I had no idea before joining this board how lucky I am that my son is accepting of his diagnosis and 100% compliant with his therapy. I had no idea what a common problem this is. That being the case, I don't have any good suggestions to give you about getting your husband to understand and recognize his behavior. I do remember when my son was manic. There was no way to reason with him. He was right. End of discussion. There would have been no way for me to get him to take meds or go to therapy, etc. He had to decide that that's what he needed to do.
When the bipolar individual is not sufficiently medicated, small stressors are enough to trigger an episode. When you get your books, you can read about kindling. If your husband was untreated for a number of years, this may be what's going on with him. It takes less and less to set off an episode as the years go by.
Have you read "The Unquiet Mind" by Kay Redfield Jamison? I highly recommend this book. When Kay was in med. school she had a mental breakdown, was hospitalized and was finally diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She'd known something was wrong for years, but had never been treated. She now teaches and does research at Johns Hopkins, and is a leading expert in bipolar disorder!! This is the book our son gave to us to read when he told us he was bipolar, and he gives it to a few friends when he wants them to understand what it's like to be bipolar. It kind of helps you understand what it must be like to have disordered thought and uncontrolled emotion.
Well, I'll stop before I write a chapter in my book! I'm always happy to try to answer your questions.
Take care, my friend.
Tsohl
Used&Abused
02-05-2007, 10:54 PM
Hi 4support,
I feel for you as many of us spouses here have been to hell and back more times than we care to imagine. I have dealt with a unmedicated BP wife for 8 years now. She was formally dx in July 2005 but the writing was on the wall long before that. Her depression seems more mild than many here but her manic episodes have become so destructive it's becoming more stressful by the minute. She's been out of the house for 75 days now and I find myself still feeling sick when I hear what's happening.
At the start of mania she will call me everything in the book, go out partying, attack the first guy she sees and then proceed to really go off the deep end. We have filed for divorce twice in the last 20 months. Both times within days of the mania taking shape she had contracted on new properties and moved herself and 4 kids. In 2005 she did this but her new boyfriend quickly fizzled out and within 20 days was knocking at my door. I have gained more info in 8 weeks from this board than the last 8 years combined. My wife will accept no responsibilty for her dx and is unmedicated. This total lack of responsibilty by not only her but her complete family has caused me to have no choice but to end the marriage for good.
It comes down to responsibilty and when someone stays in complete denial you have little choice but to leave. I just couldn't drown myself any longer trying to keep her afloat. It was literally sucking the life out of me and I had to finanly exit for my own sanity. We are all different here and not one situation is the same. It does appear though that most spouses dealing with an unmedicated BP can only last so long. The disorder takes a toll even when medicated as it has in yours but unmedicated becomes very hopeless very fast and after 8 years I think I deserve a gold medal making it that far.
I hope your husband takes 100% responsibilty and from all I've read it's truly the only path to long term stability. My situation will get worse before better because I'm attempting to divorce someone very manic and that is becoming a nightmare. I still love the stable wife I married but like you said the emotional health of everyone involved must be a priority. If I'm forced to take the children from her then that's what will have to happen. I don't want to but her actions recently are making me think very hard about that reality.
Take care and good luck in getting your hubby stable.....
God Bless........U&A
I feel for you as many of us spouses here have been to hell and back more times than we care to imagine. I have dealt with a unmedicated BP wife for 8 years now. She was formally dx in July 2005 but the writing was on the wall long before that. Her depression seems more mild than many here but her manic episodes have become so destructive it's becoming more stressful by the minute. She's been out of the house for 75 days now and I find myself still feeling sick when I hear what's happening.
At the start of mania she will call me everything in the book, go out partying, attack the first guy she sees and then proceed to really go off the deep end. We have filed for divorce twice in the last 20 months. Both times within days of the mania taking shape she had contracted on new properties and moved herself and 4 kids. In 2005 she did this but her new boyfriend quickly fizzled out and within 20 days was knocking at my door. I have gained more info in 8 weeks from this board than the last 8 years combined. My wife will accept no responsibilty for her dx and is unmedicated. This total lack of responsibilty by not only her but her complete family has caused me to have no choice but to end the marriage for good.
It comes down to responsibilty and when someone stays in complete denial you have little choice but to leave. I just couldn't drown myself any longer trying to keep her afloat. It was literally sucking the life out of me and I had to finanly exit for my own sanity. We are all different here and not one situation is the same. It does appear though that most spouses dealing with an unmedicated BP can only last so long. The disorder takes a toll even when medicated as it has in yours but unmedicated becomes very hopeless very fast and after 8 years I think I deserve a gold medal making it that far.
I hope your husband takes 100% responsibilty and from all I've read it's truly the only path to long term stability. My situation will get worse before better because I'm attempting to divorce someone very manic and that is becoming a nightmare. I still love the stable wife I married but like you said the emotional health of everyone involved must be a priority. If I'm forced to take the children from her then that's what will have to happen. I don't want to but her actions recently are making me think very hard about that reality.
Take care and good luck in getting your hubby stable.....
God Bless........U&A
jules3
02-05-2007, 11:31 PM
4support, i just read the book that ts was telling you about THE UNQUIET MIND. i wish i could mail it to you to save you some money..i bought 3 books so far on bipolar disorder. they do help me to understand what is going on inside my sons head..my son doesnt sound as extreme as alot of people in the books or people i read about on this board.. i do think there has to be many degrees of bipolarism..can i be wrong about that? does your husband have episodes that lasts weeks or months? is it mostly his agitation and his moods? im just trying to understand!!
4support
02-06-2007, 12:07 AM
Hi jules3,
I bought "UNQUIET MIND" for my husband and he is almost thru reading it. He says he likes the book and is learning lots from it, he also does not quite have the extremes as Kay who wrote the book. He's never been suicidal. His is mostly the on/off mood swings, depression/anger and irritability. These episodes are so irregular and unpredictable with him but they usually last a week to a couple of weeks or so. I'm noticing a more regular pattern of irritability lately, which is why I can't wait for him to get into a new pdoc and take a look at his meds. In addition to BP I and BP II, it appears that are many degrees of bipolarism, I'm no expert but I'm trying to learn all I can!
I bought "UNQUIET MIND" for my husband and he is almost thru reading it. He says he likes the book and is learning lots from it, he also does not quite have the extremes as Kay who wrote the book. He's never been suicidal. His is mostly the on/off mood swings, depression/anger and irritability. These episodes are so irregular and unpredictable with him but they usually last a week to a couple of weeks or so. I'm noticing a more regular pattern of irritability lately, which is why I can't wait for him to get into a new pdoc and take a look at his meds. In addition to BP I and BP II, it appears that are many degrees of bipolarism, I'm no expert but I'm trying to learn all I can!
tsohl
02-06-2007, 12:22 AM
Jules,
As you know bipolar disorder runs the gamut of slight to severe. There is a small percentage of people who cannot be helped with medications. I'm guessing that you are lucky in that your son began receiving treatment early in the game. According to various things I've read, the majority of people do not seek treatment or receive the correct treatment for on average, 10 years :dizzy: In an unmedicated individual, with each episode that occurs, it can get more difficult to control with medications. It also takes a lesser trigger to set off an episode. So the longer a person goes undiagnosed, in general, the more difficult it is to control. Of course, taking into account various personalities, life experiences, etc.some people respond better to treatment than others. Some people have a greater chemical imbalance than others - just like some people with Parkinson's disease respond to meds and their symptoms are controlled better than others. So even though it's crummy that your son has BP, it is lucky that it was diagnosed early!
As you know bipolar disorder runs the gamut of slight to severe. There is a small percentage of people who cannot be helped with medications. I'm guessing that you are lucky in that your son began receiving treatment early in the game. According to various things I've read, the majority of people do not seek treatment or receive the correct treatment for on average, 10 years :dizzy: In an unmedicated individual, with each episode that occurs, it can get more difficult to control with medications. It also takes a lesser trigger to set off an episode. So the longer a person goes undiagnosed, in general, the more difficult it is to control. Of course, taking into account various personalities, life experiences, etc.some people respond better to treatment than others. Some people have a greater chemical imbalance than others - just like some people with Parkinson's disease respond to meds and their symptoms are controlled better than others. So even though it's crummy that your son has BP, it is lucky that it was diagnosed early!
4support
02-06-2007, 12:26 AM
Hi Tsohl,
It sounds like your son is doing a great job!! He has 100% acceptance (huge milestone), stable and doing well. It's not always easy getting to that point, so that is WONDERFUL. That is what I am hoping for my husband - that as he continues to go to therapy, finds a new pdoc, and learns more about his illness, he will finally embrace it all and find the right med-mix for him!
To answer your question, I absolutely am looking for encouragement here, but venting my frustrations/concerns at the same time. My husband and I truly love eachother and we love and adore our children and want to stay married. To me, there would be nothing more tragic than if my husband did not commit to making himself fully well so we could live with him. I would really have to feel as though it were hopeless and he weren't even trying before I would feel like I would have to do something. I just feel I have to have boundaries and he has to be accountable for controlling his illness. I don't look at any life as easy and simple, and all families have their issues - I really try to keep this perspective. This is our challenge. Living with a BP spouse is tricky though because if they don't manage the illness, I see how it can continue to damage the non-BP spouse and children. This is what I am trying to avoid. I am very open with my young children and hope that will help minimize the confusion they have about their father's unpredictable behaviour.
I did get "The Unquiet Mind" for my husband and he is almost thru reading it. He says he likes the book, I will read it after he does. I also ordered "Moodswing" and have been advised to read "The Bipolar Survival Guide", "Loving Someone with Bipolar", and "Surviving Manic Depression". Those books, in addition to this forum, and some NAMI support should really help!
Good night & thank you!
4support
It sounds like your son is doing a great job!! He has 100% acceptance (huge milestone), stable and doing well. It's not always easy getting to that point, so that is WONDERFUL. That is what I am hoping for my husband - that as he continues to go to therapy, finds a new pdoc, and learns more about his illness, he will finally embrace it all and find the right med-mix for him!
To answer your question, I absolutely am looking for encouragement here, but venting my frustrations/concerns at the same time. My husband and I truly love eachother and we love and adore our children and want to stay married. To me, there would be nothing more tragic than if my husband did not commit to making himself fully well so we could live with him. I would really have to feel as though it were hopeless and he weren't even trying before I would feel like I would have to do something. I just feel I have to have boundaries and he has to be accountable for controlling his illness. I don't look at any life as easy and simple, and all families have their issues - I really try to keep this perspective. This is our challenge. Living with a BP spouse is tricky though because if they don't manage the illness, I see how it can continue to damage the non-BP spouse and children. This is what I am trying to avoid. I am very open with my young children and hope that will help minimize the confusion they have about their father's unpredictable behaviour.
I did get "The Unquiet Mind" for my husband and he is almost thru reading it. He says he likes the book, I will read it after he does. I also ordered "Moodswing" and have been advised to read "The Bipolar Survival Guide", "Loving Someone with Bipolar", and "Surviving Manic Depression". Those books, in addition to this forum, and some NAMI support should really help!
Good night & thank you!
4support
tsohl
02-06-2007, 01:16 AM
You can start wearing your junior psychiatrist button after reading all those books!
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts on your marriage. One thing I want to point out that I sense from your writing is that you are still thinking about your husband's behavior, thought patterns etc. in a "logical" way. That is, you are trying to make sense of it all in the same way you would if you were behaving that way, thinking that way, etc. You must remember that part or most of the time, his thinking is disordered, but he is not necessarily aware of it. It is not at all unusual for someone to think that everyone else in the whole world is out of step except for him...and this seems completely logical to him. Bipolar disorder distorts thinking, perception, judgment, behaviors, reactions to things the person encounters, and self-concept....in effect, everything that made your husband the person you first met and fell in love with.
You need to hang on while your husband finds a new pdoc and goes through the time period of getting his meds sorted out and adjusted. When this happens, I think you'll see a change in your husband. And hopefully when he realizes how much better he feels on his meds, he will become more compliant and reasonable. Wishful thinking? Hopefully not!
Take care.
Tsohl
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts on your marriage. One thing I want to point out that I sense from your writing is that you are still thinking about your husband's behavior, thought patterns etc. in a "logical" way. That is, you are trying to make sense of it all in the same way you would if you were behaving that way, thinking that way, etc. You must remember that part or most of the time, his thinking is disordered, but he is not necessarily aware of it. It is not at all unusual for someone to think that everyone else in the whole world is out of step except for him...and this seems completely logical to him. Bipolar disorder distorts thinking, perception, judgment, behaviors, reactions to things the person encounters, and self-concept....in effect, everything that made your husband the person you first met and fell in love with.
You need to hang on while your husband finds a new pdoc and goes through the time period of getting his meds sorted out and adjusted. When this happens, I think you'll see a change in your husband. And hopefully when he realizes how much better he feels on his meds, he will become more compliant and reasonable. Wishful thinking? Hopefully not!
Take care.
Tsohl
4support
02-06-2007, 01:40 PM
Hi Tsohl,
WOW, what a great point you made. When you said "You must remember that part or most of the time, his thinking is disordered, but he is not necessarily aware of it. It is not at all unusual for someone to think that everyone else in the whole world is out of step except for him...and this seems completely logical to him. Bipolar disorder distorts thinking, perception, judgment, behaviors, reactions to things the person encounters, and self-concept....in effect, everything that made your husband the person you first met and fell in love with."
This is exactly what I do and it is difficult to be looking at the person in front of you and hearing them say things and wondering how they could say things which are so distorted. What scares me is that my husband repeats the same things over and over such as "you always tell me how bad I am", "you must have never really loved me", "you've probably always wanted to leave me", when this has been addressed a million times in therapy and when he is well, that NONE of these things are true. What scares me is when does he stop believing these things? He will be well for a while and then what about when he IS having an episode? Or if there is a slight disagreement or conflict, he'll automatically say those things. (great for the children to hear, this is why I am so concerned) It's an irrational thing to keep telling someone that they must feel this way about him, but he still insists it's true. IF he really believes these things, what would keep him from acting on destroying our marriage if he really believes that I feel this way about him? In other words, why would he want to show me that he really loves me anymore if he truly believes I have never loved him or have always wanted to leave him?? It is so hard to hear him say these things when I have shown my love for him our entire relationship. I don't understand if he knows he distorts or not. He usually insists that he is NOT distorting when he clearly is. When there is conflict, my husband always thinks he is right and I am wrong. There is no reasoning with him and he doesn't even seem to understand what I ever feel or what my position is. This is another hard thing about this illness. It's as though when he is fine, I feel he understands me and accepts that he acts this way at times, but when he is not fine, all of a sudden he begins blaming everything on me and is totally argumentative and irritated at the smallest things.
I guess the med-mix mystery must be the solution. Either way, the illness does scare me, it's the not knowing what he really believes or when his behaviour will change. The one thing he consistently says is that he loves me and would never leave me. Sometimes if he's "off" and there is conflict, he'll say other things but I try to ignore them in the heat of the moment. I need to schedule another therapy session for myself. He is scheduled for later this week to go on his own. Between pdocs, therapy for both of us, finding the time with our hectic schedules and med costs, managing an illness such as this is very hard. We are a young family with young children and because this treatment is necessary, this creates a hardship that I know so many people are facing with health issues in this country today.
Many thanks.
4support
WOW, what a great point you made. When you said "You must remember that part or most of the time, his thinking is disordered, but he is not necessarily aware of it. It is not at all unusual for someone to think that everyone else in the whole world is out of step except for him...and this seems completely logical to him. Bipolar disorder distorts thinking, perception, judgment, behaviors, reactions to things the person encounters, and self-concept....in effect, everything that made your husband the person you first met and fell in love with."
This is exactly what I do and it is difficult to be looking at the person in front of you and hearing them say things and wondering how they could say things which are so distorted. What scares me is that my husband repeats the same things over and over such as "you always tell me how bad I am", "you must have never really loved me", "you've probably always wanted to leave me", when this has been addressed a million times in therapy and when he is well, that NONE of these things are true. What scares me is when does he stop believing these things? He will be well for a while and then what about when he IS having an episode? Or if there is a slight disagreement or conflict, he'll automatically say those things. (great for the children to hear, this is why I am so concerned) It's an irrational thing to keep telling someone that they must feel this way about him, but he still insists it's true. IF he really believes these things, what would keep him from acting on destroying our marriage if he really believes that I feel this way about him? In other words, why would he want to show me that he really loves me anymore if he truly believes I have never loved him or have always wanted to leave him?? It is so hard to hear him say these things when I have shown my love for him our entire relationship. I don't understand if he knows he distorts or not. He usually insists that he is NOT distorting when he clearly is. When there is conflict, my husband always thinks he is right and I am wrong. There is no reasoning with him and he doesn't even seem to understand what I ever feel or what my position is. This is another hard thing about this illness. It's as though when he is fine, I feel he understands me and accepts that he acts this way at times, but when he is not fine, all of a sudden he begins blaming everything on me and is totally argumentative and irritated at the smallest things.
I guess the med-mix mystery must be the solution. Either way, the illness does scare me, it's the not knowing what he really believes or when his behaviour will change. The one thing he consistently says is that he loves me and would never leave me. Sometimes if he's "off" and there is conflict, he'll say other things but I try to ignore them in the heat of the moment. I need to schedule another therapy session for myself. He is scheduled for later this week to go on his own. Between pdocs, therapy for both of us, finding the time with our hectic schedules and med costs, managing an illness such as this is very hard. We are a young family with young children and because this treatment is necessary, this creates a hardship that I know so many people are facing with health issues in this country today.
Many thanks.
4support
tsohl
02-06-2007, 02:34 PM
Hello 4support,
Wish I were in Texas today. The high yesterday was zero and all the schools are closed. Of course this hasn't stopped the kids from going to the malls, or the movies!!
I really think when your husband is properly medicated, some of these problems are going to clear up. When he is manic (and remember manic does not have to be a big, blown out of proportion thing--it can also be subtle) I'm sure he says things that he would never say otherwise. Remember things are usually exagerated...so while what he says may have a kernal of truth to it, he will blow it way up out of proportion. A person might mean "I think what you said is silly" and say "You must be the most stupid person on earth to have said that." There is a real distortion of thinking. Researchers do not know why this happens.
One problem that is fairly common is that we sit here wondering why the pdoc can't get the meds right. But often the "patient" goes to the appt by himself and is not completely honest with the pdoc. Or at that particular moment in time, he is feeling a certain way and that is all that gets reported...so the pdoc doesn't get a complete picture of what is going on. So the patient comes home with a certain type of drug when he really needs maybe several types of drugs to control everything. It is really important for your husband to be as complete as he can be in his description of how "things are going."
I doubt very much that your husband realizes he is distorting the truth. While we know for a fact 2+2=4, he may not see it that way and might go on and on to try to persuade you otherwise. He will be certain that it is not 4.
But when he is properly and appropriately medicated, this will change. Also, hopefully when this occurs, he will not continue to have episodes, or if he does they will be more minor, such as when you are having a bad day.
Could your therapist recommend a different pdoc for your husband? Are you in a city so you have a wide choice?
I know this whole topic is scarey -- and if we come from families without a prior history of mental illness, or substance abuse, it is really a huge shock, too. But you will learn to deal with it as will your husband. Sometime when I have more time, I will tell you how in some ways, my son regards it as a blessing, a very special gift. :eek:
One more thing: there are some really wonderful developments on the horizon that are really going to help those with bipolar disorder. They are developing new meds that pinpoint exactly where the little neurons are not connecting and the drug will affect just that one small area, so there won't be all the side effects that occur now. And there is other exciting research that involves treatments that won't even involve drugs...so there really is hope for my son and for your husband.;)
Take care,
Tsohl
Wish I were in Texas today. The high yesterday was zero and all the schools are closed. Of course this hasn't stopped the kids from going to the malls, or the movies!!
I really think when your husband is properly medicated, some of these problems are going to clear up. When he is manic (and remember manic does not have to be a big, blown out of proportion thing--it can also be subtle) I'm sure he says things that he would never say otherwise. Remember things are usually exagerated...so while what he says may have a kernal of truth to it, he will blow it way up out of proportion. A person might mean "I think what you said is silly" and say "You must be the most stupid person on earth to have said that." There is a real distortion of thinking. Researchers do not know why this happens.
One problem that is fairly common is that we sit here wondering why the pdoc can't get the meds right. But often the "patient" goes to the appt by himself and is not completely honest with the pdoc. Or at that particular moment in time, he is feeling a certain way and that is all that gets reported...so the pdoc doesn't get a complete picture of what is going on. So the patient comes home with a certain type of drug when he really needs maybe several types of drugs to control everything. It is really important for your husband to be as complete as he can be in his description of how "things are going."
I doubt very much that your husband realizes he is distorting the truth. While we know for a fact 2+2=4, he may not see it that way and might go on and on to try to persuade you otherwise. He will be certain that it is not 4.
But when he is properly and appropriately medicated, this will change. Also, hopefully when this occurs, he will not continue to have episodes, or if he does they will be more minor, such as when you are having a bad day.
Could your therapist recommend a different pdoc for your husband? Are you in a city so you have a wide choice?
I know this whole topic is scarey -- and if we come from families without a prior history of mental illness, or substance abuse, it is really a huge shock, too. But you will learn to deal with it as will your husband. Sometime when I have more time, I will tell you how in some ways, my son regards it as a blessing, a very special gift. :eek:
One more thing: there are some really wonderful developments on the horizon that are really going to help those with bipolar disorder. They are developing new meds that pinpoint exactly where the little neurons are not connecting and the drug will affect just that one small area, so there won't be all the side effects that occur now. And there is other exciting research that involves treatments that won't even involve drugs...so there really is hope for my son and for your husband.;)
Take care,
Tsohl
4support
02-12-2007, 01:19 AM
Hi Tsohl,
I have been off the board for a week or so but I wanted to thank you for your last post. It was encouraging and uplifting to read. I am quite convinced at this point that something is not right with my husband's meds. The lithium worked very well for some time, but he again is consistently irritable and argumentative, distorting conversations, things said, and of course blaming everything on me. He truly believes this and refuses to be accountable for anything. He is also depressed and negative most of the time. It's very difficult to be an overall happy and optimistic individual and be living with someone like this, especially when you are trying to show your children happiness in life. It has to cause them confusion?
My husband is one of these people who relies on me for finding his doctors, making appts for him, and reminding him when to go. I really don't feel he would do this on his own, so I feel I HAVE to do it because he 'doesn't know that he has to go anyway'. I have contacted the local NAMI chapter and have some information on support groups in my area now. I hope to find a good referral for a new pdoc through someone, hopefully soon. We do live in a large metropolitan area, but two of the most highly recommended pdocs have not worked out for my husband, so it has been discouraging to say the least.
Your answers to my questions have been both informative and comforting. Although I have read up much on this illness, and have also gone to therapy to learn how to cope with the mood swings, I still manage to become very hurt and upset by his irrational distortions and hurtful comments and having a hard time believing that he doesn't mean these things when he says he does and won't apologize. How can a person without the disorder continue to 'ignore' these things as being caused by the illness when they are still being said to you and your children are still hearing them?
We just had a wonderful family day today - happy and joyful - we came home and within 30 minutes, my husband went to another room and told us to leave him alone. He was clearly in a 'down' mood and started yelling when our 2-year old was upset about something. I asked him to stop yelling and it just starts from there. He becomes escalated, says I'm trying to "discipline him" and how I'm "talking down to him". Then proceeds to make argumentative comments for the next hour, when I ask him to simply stop, he starts yelling how "I hate him" and how "everything he does is wrong". And yes, the children heard him. It's unnerving behaviour to say the least. Why can't he be accountable? Why can't he see that he is causing this chaos? Does he know it and just can't admit it? Why does he always try to blame everything on me? You know, it would help if he would just take responsibility for his behaviour and apologize sometimes. I would immediately feel better, but it's the blaming it on me that is really wearing on me.
I am remembering what you have said in an earlier post about distortion. I just don't understand how anyone without mental illness can live with someone who has such unpredictable and damaging behaviour to those they love. I don't want to end up depressed! It hurts me greatly that we have such wonderful times with our little family, and within a minute this can change based on my husband's moods. As I said in an earlier post, it becomes increasingly harder to enjoy and embrace the good times when the mood change will hit you out of the blue and shock you every time.
I feel depleted and exhausted. All I want to do is reach out and tell my husband I love him, but I did that today and you can see what still happened tonight.
I would also love to hear from some BPers and their insight.
Take care.
4support
I have been off the board for a week or so but I wanted to thank you for your last post. It was encouraging and uplifting to read. I am quite convinced at this point that something is not right with my husband's meds. The lithium worked very well for some time, but he again is consistently irritable and argumentative, distorting conversations, things said, and of course blaming everything on me. He truly believes this and refuses to be accountable for anything. He is also depressed and negative most of the time. It's very difficult to be an overall happy and optimistic individual and be living with someone like this, especially when you are trying to show your children happiness in life. It has to cause them confusion?
My husband is one of these people who relies on me for finding his doctors, making appts for him, and reminding him when to go. I really don't feel he would do this on his own, so I feel I HAVE to do it because he 'doesn't know that he has to go anyway'. I have contacted the local NAMI chapter and have some information on support groups in my area now. I hope to find a good referral for a new pdoc through someone, hopefully soon. We do live in a large metropolitan area, but two of the most highly recommended pdocs have not worked out for my husband, so it has been discouraging to say the least.
Your answers to my questions have been both informative and comforting. Although I have read up much on this illness, and have also gone to therapy to learn how to cope with the mood swings, I still manage to become very hurt and upset by his irrational distortions and hurtful comments and having a hard time believing that he doesn't mean these things when he says he does and won't apologize. How can a person without the disorder continue to 'ignore' these things as being caused by the illness when they are still being said to you and your children are still hearing them?
We just had a wonderful family day today - happy and joyful - we came home and within 30 minutes, my husband went to another room and told us to leave him alone. He was clearly in a 'down' mood and started yelling when our 2-year old was upset about something. I asked him to stop yelling and it just starts from there. He becomes escalated, says I'm trying to "discipline him" and how I'm "talking down to him". Then proceeds to make argumentative comments for the next hour, when I ask him to simply stop, he starts yelling how "I hate him" and how "everything he does is wrong". And yes, the children heard him. It's unnerving behaviour to say the least. Why can't he be accountable? Why can't he see that he is causing this chaos? Does he know it and just can't admit it? Why does he always try to blame everything on me? You know, it would help if he would just take responsibility for his behaviour and apologize sometimes. I would immediately feel better, but it's the blaming it on me that is really wearing on me.
I am remembering what you have said in an earlier post about distortion. I just don't understand how anyone without mental illness can live with someone who has such unpredictable and damaging behaviour to those they love. I don't want to end up depressed! It hurts me greatly that we have such wonderful times with our little family, and within a minute this can change based on my husband's moods. As I said in an earlier post, it becomes increasingly harder to enjoy and embrace the good times when the mood change will hit you out of the blue and shock you every time.
I feel depleted and exhausted. All I want to do is reach out and tell my husband I love him, but I did that today and you can see what still happened tonight.
I would also love to hear from some BPers and their insight.
Take care.
4support
bipolarbear
02-12-2007, 04:03 PM
4Support:
We nonBP spouses have wracked our brains, reasoning, logic and common sense to try to understand the irrational, lopsided, nonsensical reasoning of the BP mind. I've tried for years and years; and in the final analysis, I come up empty every time. As U&A stated, trying to speak with someone with BP, especially while in mania, is akin to talking to a brick wall. But, we perservere, foolishily thinking we will make a crack in the wall, but the only crack we will start to see is in our own mental, emotional and psycological stability and health.
The more I read your posts, but more I see major similarities in our situations. You just haven't traveled as far and long as I have yet. You still have a moderate amount of hope and optimism. I hope your husband gets on track before your supply is exhausted and depleted forever. Once you cross that threshhold, there really is no going back.
Their incomprehensible lack of insight, despite the depression which follows a manic episode is literally impossible to compute. Add into that mix, nastiness, meanspiritedness, alientation, coldness, separateness and an overall feeling of disconnectedness and alientation, you wonder why people close to us give us that odd look; that look of disbelief of why we have stayed thus far.
It's hard enough to deal with when you have a semi-cooperative/cooperative BP; but if you have one who is unmedicated and has no intention whatsoever, never, ever, even considering have medication, let alone acknowledge there is anything wrong; in a word you're screwed. There is only so much we can do; and if we're not met half way, we are in a losing battle.
I know this sounds harsh and defeatist, but I like to think of it more as realistic. I would look to Plans b and C.
We nonBP spouses have wracked our brains, reasoning, logic and common sense to try to understand the irrational, lopsided, nonsensical reasoning of the BP mind. I've tried for years and years; and in the final analysis, I come up empty every time. As U&A stated, trying to speak with someone with BP, especially while in mania, is akin to talking to a brick wall. But, we perservere, foolishily thinking we will make a crack in the wall, but the only crack we will start to see is in our own mental, emotional and psycological stability and health.
The more I read your posts, but more I see major similarities in our situations. You just haven't traveled as far and long as I have yet. You still have a moderate amount of hope and optimism. I hope your husband gets on track before your supply is exhausted and depleted forever. Once you cross that threshhold, there really is no going back.
Their incomprehensible lack of insight, despite the depression which follows a manic episode is literally impossible to compute. Add into that mix, nastiness, meanspiritedness, alientation, coldness, separateness and an overall feeling of disconnectedness and alientation, you wonder why people close to us give us that odd look; that look of disbelief of why we have stayed thus far.
It's hard enough to deal with when you have a semi-cooperative/cooperative BP; but if you have one who is unmedicated and has no intention whatsoever, never, ever, even considering have medication, let alone acknowledge there is anything wrong; in a word you're screwed. There is only so much we can do; and if we're not met half way, we are in a losing battle.
I know this sounds harsh and defeatist, but I like to think of it more as realistic. I would look to Plans b and C.
marshmallow
02-12-2007, 08:28 PM
Tahoe One I don't think what you said was harsh at all it is reality in a nutshell living with an unmedicated bp. Believe me I feel the lasting affects of it and probably will for a long time. It drains you to the very core. It takes your soul away and leaves you empty. Now that's harsh.
bipolarbear
02-12-2007, 11:21 PM
Dear Marshmallow:
It DOES take your soul away. It is an insidious killer of your soul and spirit - literally. Piece by piece, bit by bit until there is NOTHING left. I don't know you, but I love ya. Strange how you can instantly bond with someone who's walked the same path as you.
It DOES take your soul away. It is an insidious killer of your soul and spirit - literally. Piece by piece, bit by bit until there is NOTHING left. I don't know you, but I love ya. Strange how you can instantly bond with someone who's walked the same path as you.
fight4myfamily
02-13-2007, 06:31 AM
Very strange indeed - it took me ten minutes to read through this thread and the entire ten minutes my heart was aching for each and every one of you, your partners and children, and myself.
So many things were written that could have come out of my own mouth - the distortion etc and some of it hit home a little too hard.
I myself am dogpaddling somewhere between plan a and plan b and hope to reach one very soon. it has gotten to the point that I hardly care which, anyone will do as long as I am not left here to drown in the middle! My hubby has managed to pretty much suck me dry emotionally, physically and financially and I really hope I manage to use the last of my energy pursuing the right path. It is terrifying isn't it.
Thankyou to everyone who posted in this thread for being brave and honest and caring enough to share yourself with us, you have no idea how much difference it can make in anothers life - thankyou.
So many things were written that could have come out of my own mouth - the distortion etc and some of it hit home a little too hard.
I myself am dogpaddling somewhere between plan a and plan b and hope to reach one very soon. it has gotten to the point that I hardly care which, anyone will do as long as I am not left here to drown in the middle! My hubby has managed to pretty much suck me dry emotionally, physically and financially and I really hope I manage to use the last of my energy pursuing the right path. It is terrifying isn't it.
Thankyou to everyone who posted in this thread for being brave and honest and caring enough to share yourself with us, you have no idea how much difference it can make in anothers life - thankyou.
bipolarbear
02-17-2007, 02:43 PM
TSOL:
I was very interested n your post regarding the part about a peprson with bipolar who refuses treatment and how their episides get worse, more severe, closer together and can cause changes in the brain which can be detected on a brain scan. -- Wow! I was wondering if you would elaborate on that part, especially about the brain changes and anything you could share with me re: disordered thinking.
My spouse is an unmedicated BP, currently in the worst and longest manic episide - going into the 7th month, which is about 3 months longer than usual. Behavior much worse and all around it is a miserable hell.
Anything you could share to enlighten me and educate me would be most appreciated.
Thank you.
I was very interested n your post regarding the part about a peprson with bipolar who refuses treatment and how their episides get worse, more severe, closer together and can cause changes in the brain which can be detected on a brain scan. -- Wow! I was wondering if you would elaborate on that part, especially about the brain changes and anything you could share with me re: disordered thinking.
My spouse is an unmedicated BP, currently in the worst and longest manic episide - going into the 7th month, which is about 3 months longer than usual. Behavior much worse and all around it is a miserable hell.
Anything you could share to enlighten me and educate me would be most appreciated.
Thank you.