orchardlady
02-21-2007, 08:59 PM
Sitting here tonight I realize that I have retreated over the past couple of months, back into my shell, my "cave," as a new friend would say.
The brief social life I had for the first time in my life has died away.
It was there from April until December.
I can still have it, but I don't want the work it entails and the fear of rejection it fosters.
After all these years it is perplexing that I am comfortable with this happening.
At the same time it is not surprising...there is a safety factor in retreating.
There is no work in being alone.
There is work in having any kind of relationship.
I have always been alone...58 yrs worth of alone...fear of rejection has always kept me there.
The tug of war I have with my aloneness is constant.
While I want friendship and close relationships, they scare the dickens out of me.
The brief social life I had for the first time in my life has died away.
It was there from April until December.
I can still have it, but I don't want the work it entails and the fear of rejection it fosters.
After all these years it is perplexing that I am comfortable with this happening.
At the same time it is not surprising...there is a safety factor in retreating.
There is no work in being alone.
There is work in having any kind of relationship.
I have always been alone...58 yrs worth of alone...fear of rejection has always kept me there.
The tug of war I have with my aloneness is constant.
While I want friendship and close relationships, they scare the dickens out of me.
Sponsor
stick2013
02-21-2007, 09:02 PM
Hi Hon,
So why so sad tonight????? What happened to trigger this???? Although I do know about being alone, I have been alone for the past 8 years, but I did it by choice. I do LOVE being alone. I have friends, but mostly we talk over the phone.
So what's going on???
Sid
So why so sad tonight????? What happened to trigger this???? Although I do know about being alone, I have been alone for the past 8 years, but I did it by choice. I do LOVE being alone. I have friends, but mostly we talk over the phone.
So what's going on???
Sid
Phoenix
02-21-2007, 09:23 PM
It was my description of my inner child years ago on the NO DEEPER thread.
I didn't realize this would happen.
I didn't realize this would happen.
stick2013
02-21-2007, 09:58 PM
FTM,
Don't go blaming yourself....Sometimes just a word or thought, or anything can set us off on a thinking journey. So don't be upset with yourself, as I am sure that Carolyn isn't upset with you either.....
She will be OK, she is a survivor too.....We all are. She is probably just having a rough night. We all do....
Hugs to both of you......
Sid
Don't go blaming yourself....Sometimes just a word or thought, or anything can set us off on a thinking journey. So don't be upset with yourself, as I am sure that Carolyn isn't upset with you either.....
She will be OK, she is a survivor too.....We all are. She is probably just having a rough night. We all do....
Hugs to both of you......
Sid
orchardlady
02-21-2007, 11:59 PM
FTM, nothing to do with your thread...honestly. :)
You thread is a good one. I am sorry that we are not allowed to express ourselves in that way in this board, or I assume, any HealthBoards. I did remove what I wrote on-the-fly tonight, but I did save it here in my PC.
I am just in a funk. Happens from time to time. I need to go post in S-IR too, before I get myself in to trouble. I have two painful infections I have been working on this week, so I don't have show my internist my SI, which I will have to do by Monday if the infection doesn't resolve over the weekend. I dread the day I have to show anyone what I have done to myself.
This past year, for the first time, I tried to break out of my "cave" and find a place in the social community that wasn't the act of helping others, hence finding a diversion for myself...distractions from myself. I have never attempted this before. Whether it was career work or personal stuff, I have always focused on doing for others, rather than doing for myself; e.g. managing non-profit, volunteering in the ER, hotline phone work, church work, raising infant grandchildren, until their mothers got their acts together, etc.
It was the hardest work I have done in a long time. While I did make three friends, one of which I have continued phone contact with a couple of times a week, even that is waining...she calls me or I call her. I have also made a friend through my online Parkinson's work...email, phone and IM contact. Believe me, I don't complain to these people. Heck, I don't complain to anyone about anything, just keep it to myself. This board, and the SI board, are the closest I come to complaining about anything.
Today I saw the surgeon about neck-lymph biopsy and he said, wait and watch, no biopsy now. I thought that at least one of these "friends" would have checked in tonight, but alas, nothing from anyone. They all know how stressed I have been about the possibility of yet another yuckie health condition.
Maybe this lack of caring response tonight is the message to me to just return to my cave and abandon the social life. Being social is hard work, after all these years. It is scary work. And, it is work! It is emotionally draining! I always return home wondering, trying not to let my head games begin...the did they like me, will anyone care if I return...that kind of stuff.
You thread is a good one. I am sorry that we are not allowed to express ourselves in that way in this board, or I assume, any HealthBoards. I did remove what I wrote on-the-fly tonight, but I did save it here in my PC.
I am just in a funk. Happens from time to time. I need to go post in S-IR too, before I get myself in to trouble. I have two painful infections I have been working on this week, so I don't have show my internist my SI, which I will have to do by Monday if the infection doesn't resolve over the weekend. I dread the day I have to show anyone what I have done to myself.
This past year, for the first time, I tried to break out of my "cave" and find a place in the social community that wasn't the act of helping others, hence finding a diversion for myself...distractions from myself. I have never attempted this before. Whether it was career work or personal stuff, I have always focused on doing for others, rather than doing for myself; e.g. managing non-profit, volunteering in the ER, hotline phone work, church work, raising infant grandchildren, until their mothers got their acts together, etc.
It was the hardest work I have done in a long time. While I did make three friends, one of which I have continued phone contact with a couple of times a week, even that is waining...she calls me or I call her. I have also made a friend through my online Parkinson's work...email, phone and IM contact. Believe me, I don't complain to these people. Heck, I don't complain to anyone about anything, just keep it to myself. This board, and the SI board, are the closest I come to complaining about anything.
Today I saw the surgeon about neck-lymph biopsy and he said, wait and watch, no biopsy now. I thought that at least one of these "friends" would have checked in tonight, but alas, nothing from anyone. They all know how stressed I have been about the possibility of yet another yuckie health condition.
Maybe this lack of caring response tonight is the message to me to just return to my cave and abandon the social life. Being social is hard work, after all these years. It is scary work. And, it is work! It is emotionally draining! I always return home wondering, trying not to let my head games begin...the did they like me, will anyone care if I return...that kind of stuff.
orchardlady
02-22-2007, 12:07 AM
I try to like my life, but I don't like my life. While I wouldn't live a year of it over again, I don't like where it has taken me and where it has left me...standing alone in the intersection with no one to guide me in the right direction, having to make the decision on my own time after time...no one to lean on or to help me...other than mental health workers. I don't like the person I became. I'm sorry my children had to live through such horrible times, especially my daughter's.
Interestingly enough, while all the men in my life have been awful people...until now. Now, I have this son in law who is a nice person, but I live in "fear" daily that I will do or say something wrong and the other shoe will fall.
I don't know what to do with him. And, for the first time in 36 years...because of my son in law...I have a friendship with my oldest daughter and I don't know what to do with it.
Scared is the only word that comes to me right now.
Interestingly enough, while all the men in my life have been awful people...until now. Now, I have this son in law who is a nice person, but I live in "fear" daily that I will do or say something wrong and the other shoe will fall.
I don't know what to do with him. And, for the first time in 36 years...because of my son in law...I have a friendship with my oldest daughter and I don't know what to do with it.
Scared is the only word that comes to me right now.
gunnerb52
02-22-2007, 12:26 AM
The tug of war I have with my aloneness is constant.
While I want friendship and close relationships, they scare the dickens out of me.
I know how you feel, I was that way until 98 had my wall's in place and no one could get to me or touch me. Then in 98 went to DC to meet up with some other vets and go to the wall, talk to some congressmen and ladies about getting help for children of vets who had second hand ptsd nothing happened but we tried that was some very tense conversations, trying not to explode and yell at them that they needed to do something now not latter. I meet my wife of almost 7 years now she just walked right past all my walls and mine fields with out even noticing them before I new what was happing she was standing beside me and I was standing beside her, it felt good. We haven't even had our first fight yet don't know how that has happened, we say what is on our mind and seem to just get through with no arguments sorta meet in the middle. I am very luckily to have her and I know it.
What I am trying to say is close does not always half to be a lot of work some times it just happens. People can and do except you for you keep that in mind OK. On this board you have been excepted and then even let me in :jester: don't know how smart that was but they did and I thank all for letting me be here..
Peace
gunner
While I want friendship and close relationships, they scare the dickens out of me.
I know how you feel, I was that way until 98 had my wall's in place and no one could get to me or touch me. Then in 98 went to DC to meet up with some other vets and go to the wall, talk to some congressmen and ladies about getting help for children of vets who had second hand ptsd nothing happened but we tried that was some very tense conversations, trying not to explode and yell at them that they needed to do something now not latter. I meet my wife of almost 7 years now she just walked right past all my walls and mine fields with out even noticing them before I new what was happing she was standing beside me and I was standing beside her, it felt good. We haven't even had our first fight yet don't know how that has happened, we say what is on our mind and seem to just get through with no arguments sorta meet in the middle. I am very luckily to have her and I know it.
What I am trying to say is close does not always half to be a lot of work some times it just happens. People can and do except you for you keep that in mind OK. On this board you have been excepted and then even let me in :jester: don't know how smart that was but they did and I thank all for letting me be here..
Peace
gunner
orchardlady
02-22-2007, 01:42 AM
Gunner, you are so very fortunate.
Until my son in law came along...and it has taken almost seven years for the two of us to find common ground...I haven't trusted a single male, not even my son. While I am my son's ONLY safe harbor, I have paid a great price for providing that safe harbor. While I know it is justified to fear him, I also know it is time to get past it to a degree. I need to travel to the NE corner of the USA by the end of March to tell him goodbye before he leaves for Iraq...part of me wants to do that...part of me is clinging to the door jam, refusing to let go, refusing to even want to make the plane trip and visit what could be the last time I see him...one never knows what will happen from one minute to another.
My "cave" (my home) is my safe place and I don't even enjoy being in it. Reminds me of how alone I am and I don't like that either.
Life is such hard work. I seem to be saying the same things over and over again.
Tonight...I trusted friends to care about me when I needed them and they are not here asking how things went today. I clearly don't understand this.
Trust
Anger
Abandonment
...nothing new in my life
Well, I can tell Dr.Jim all of this tomorrow and in his detached therapeutic way, he will care...isn't that nice to know.
Until my son in law came along...and it has taken almost seven years for the two of us to find common ground...I haven't trusted a single male, not even my son. While I am my son's ONLY safe harbor, I have paid a great price for providing that safe harbor. While I know it is justified to fear him, I also know it is time to get past it to a degree. I need to travel to the NE corner of the USA by the end of March to tell him goodbye before he leaves for Iraq...part of me wants to do that...part of me is clinging to the door jam, refusing to let go, refusing to even want to make the plane trip and visit what could be the last time I see him...one never knows what will happen from one minute to another.
My "cave" (my home) is my safe place and I don't even enjoy being in it. Reminds me of how alone I am and I don't like that either.
Life is such hard work. I seem to be saying the same things over and over again.
Tonight...I trusted friends to care about me when I needed them and they are not here asking how things went today. I clearly don't understand this.
Trust
Anger
Abandonment
...nothing new in my life
Well, I can tell Dr.Jim all of this tomorrow and in his detached therapeutic way, he will care...isn't that nice to know.
Phoenix
02-22-2007, 05:51 AM
Dear Carolyn,
I care; you can post with me anytime.
Take care
God Bless
FTM
I care; you can post with me anytime.
Take care
God Bless
FTM
stick2013
02-22-2007, 06:47 AM
Carolyn,
You say that you had 3 very close friends, and yet that is waining also. You say that you have retreated to your cave yet again. You say that you are upset because your friends haven't called you and know how upset that you have been. I too have been where you are, but I learned that if I NEED something, I have to ask for it. CALL one of your friends... Sometimes WE have to make the first move. Friendship is a two way street, and people can't always know what we need, and they also have busy lives.... REACH out, let them know that YOU NEED them . It's ok to need someone sometimes.. It's also a healthy thing to do at times. NOT all the time, we should never become needed people, but we have needs too, and sometimes we need to express this.......
Hang in there... AND TAKE CARE OF THOSE INFECTIONS!!!!!!!!! STOP the SI PLEASE.... You give others such wonderful words of comfort and courage, WHY can't you STOP, LISTEN, and LEARN.....Those are 3 very powerful words to live by when recovering from PTSD.
Hugs,
Sid
You say that you had 3 very close friends, and yet that is waining also. You say that you have retreated to your cave yet again. You say that you are upset because your friends haven't called you and know how upset that you have been. I too have been where you are, but I learned that if I NEED something, I have to ask for it. CALL one of your friends... Sometimes WE have to make the first move. Friendship is a two way street, and people can't always know what we need, and they also have busy lives.... REACH out, let them know that YOU NEED them . It's ok to need someone sometimes.. It's also a healthy thing to do at times. NOT all the time, we should never become needed people, but we have needs too, and sometimes we need to express this.......
Hang in there... AND TAKE CARE OF THOSE INFECTIONS!!!!!!!!! STOP the SI PLEASE.... You give others such wonderful words of comfort and courage, WHY can't you STOP, LISTEN, and LEARN.....Those are 3 very powerful words to live by when recovering from PTSD.
Hugs,
Sid
orchardlady
02-22-2007, 09:13 PM
Thank you to both of you for replying. I just being me...the me that is not the best me.
Today I saw Dr.Jim and was once again reminded of why I picked him out to be my therapist.
I have so much baggage...so many traumas to deal with.
Some days I appreciate that over the past two years my life has been quieter than ever in my 58 years. But, then the realization that the quiet has lead me to confront my demons brings me down.
Will post more in another thread.
Today I saw Dr.Jim and was once again reminded of why I picked him out to be my therapist.
I have so much baggage...so many traumas to deal with.
Some days I appreciate that over the past two years my life has been quieter than ever in my 58 years. But, then the realization that the quiet has lead me to confront my demons brings me down.
Will post more in another thread.
stick2013
02-23-2007, 08:04 AM
Carolyn,
Facing our Demons is the only way to a healthy life... Tough as it may be it's the ONLY way.....You can do this,,,
Hugs,
Sid
Facing our Demons is the only way to a healthy life... Tough as it may be it's the ONLY way.....You can do this,,,
Hugs,
Sid
ICC
02-23-2007, 08:51 AM
carolyn ----Sid is right. I retreated for more years than I care to count. All it did was buried it all deeper and added more to the mix. You speak of forgiveness. I haven't forgiven any of my abusers. I hold each and everyone accountable for their abuse and negligence. I am now indifferent to them. no feeling good or bad. just indifferent. they are not a part of my life and I have chosen to keep it that way. One day at a time, one trauma at a time. You say you are 58. I am 53. I have just started to heal. took me most of my life to stand up and say "NO MORE". You can also.
Hugs,
Grasshopper
Hugs,
Grasshopper
orchardlady
02-23-2007, 11:04 AM
Grasshopper and Sid,
Distractions gave me reasons to ignore...single mom protecting my daughters, healing myself from attemped suicide, dealing with my violent son, building a career, etc. I never denied...just ignored, which makes life just that much harder...I see that in retrospect. I never envisioned myself as PTSD...that is just for peole who have have "real" trauma in their life. I never realized that I HAD real trauma in my life.
Childhood
Husband
Violent Son
MVA - 18 months out of my life - young woman ran a stop sign
Walking into my dark home to come face to face with a robber
Two incurable diseases
that is enough...you get the picture
The first three are the biggest...could write volumns...as most of us could.
My retreat is into my safe cave while I deal directly with what I wrote last night in Breaking Through. I can't deal with a social life that is so very incredibly uncomfortable for me until I deal with the reasons why. I have tried for the past 12 months, and it is too hard.
I am blessed with a wonderful psychologist who is Board Certified Expert in Traumatic Stress (BCETS). Can he sit for the longest time without saying a word...ugh!
Distractions gave me reasons to ignore...single mom protecting my daughters, healing myself from attemped suicide, dealing with my violent son, building a career, etc. I never denied...just ignored, which makes life just that much harder...I see that in retrospect. I never envisioned myself as PTSD...that is just for peole who have have "real" trauma in their life. I never realized that I HAD real trauma in my life.
Childhood
Husband
Violent Son
MVA - 18 months out of my life - young woman ran a stop sign
Walking into my dark home to come face to face with a robber
Two incurable diseases
that is enough...you get the picture
The first three are the biggest...could write volumns...as most of us could.
My retreat is into my safe cave while I deal directly with what I wrote last night in Breaking Through. I can't deal with a social life that is so very incredibly uncomfortable for me until I deal with the reasons why. I have tried for the past 12 months, and it is too hard.
I am blessed with a wonderful psychologist who is Board Certified Expert in Traumatic Stress (BCETS). Can he sit for the longest time without saying a word...ugh!
Sannah
02-23-2007, 02:12 PM
Hi Orchardlady, I am going to respond to both of your threads here. About your friends not calling you to check on you. One thing that came to my mind was that you fear intimacy. Of course, you want the intimacy of friendship because everyone does but then you are afraid on the other hand so you keep people at a safe distance. So you might think that you are trying to be close to these people but from an outsiders view you might appear distant because you want two opposing things here.
As for your not being able to deal with subjects on TV, etc., these just hit too close to home. Did your dad criticize you a lot? You cry with love stories because you long to be loved.
I am glad that you have your nice son-in-law. You deserve it!
As for your not being able to deal with subjects on TV, etc., these just hit too close to home. Did your dad criticize you a lot? You cry with love stories because you long to be loved.
I am glad that you have your nice son-in-law. You deserve it!
stick2013
02-23-2007, 05:30 PM
Carolyn,
Again I will ask you this question....You said that you are upset because your friends didn't call, but do YOU reach out to them????? Yes we can retreat, BUT only to a degree. We have to be PART of this world even if we don't want to be. I think that surrounding yourself with HEALTHY people also teaches us things that we can't learn by being alone. Watching how others react and handle situations is helpful ion our recovery. Life is a learning process....And we need all of the tools that we can get....At least that's my take on things....DON'T give up, you have so much GOODNEES in you. Please just take a look at all of the WONDERFUL help that you offer other people, and you will see this......Please???
Hugs,
Sid
Again I will ask you this question....You said that you are upset because your friends didn't call, but do YOU reach out to them????? Yes we can retreat, BUT only to a degree. We have to be PART of this world even if we don't want to be. I think that surrounding yourself with HEALTHY people also teaches us things that we can't learn by being alone. Watching how others react and handle situations is helpful ion our recovery. Life is a learning process....And we need all of the tools that we can get....At least that's my take on things....DON'T give up, you have so much GOODNEES in you. Please just take a look at all of the WONDERFUL help that you offer other people, and you will see this......Please???
Hugs,
Sid
ICC
02-23-2007, 06:04 PM
Carolyn -- Sid is absolutely right. I aquired a habit in my early 20's of being super woman. I did it all. took care of everyone but could never ASK for help myself. I used to get annoyed when friends and family didn't call and I had an attitude of screw them they just don't care. I just couldn't ASK. years later when i learned to I was at times turned down and other times had someone by my side immediately. those are the ones I am still in contact with. I just had to ask and then weed through the givers and takers. I am a true giver and am more comfortable around people like myself. that is why it is so easy for me to vent, cry, and just be HERE. everyone of us here is a giver. Take mine and Sid's advise about your son. If you can be there do it with letter in hand , if you cannot be there please at least tell him your feelings and send it off to him.
Lots of love,
Grasshopper
Lots of love,
Grasshopper
orchardlady
02-23-2007, 08:09 PM
Sannah, you are very right about the fear of intimacy. Just reading here I am beginning to see a lite trying to come on.
Beginning with my husband, especially towards the end of our marriage, I would take sweet greeting cards and put them in his car or on his desk at work. Seeking what I had wanted since childhood?
With friends I have done the same. I worked hard to get to know them...likeds, dislikes, children, etc...sent e-cards and snail mail cards at the appropriate time and/or when sick, etc. Seeking that acceptance again? Seeking validation that I am a nice person?
Of the three friends...again I am seeking and expecting something that may be too much to ask:
One is a VP a large national company. Called today from the road to say sorry for not replying the past five days. She has had chaos in the two offices she oversees...two different states...and is preparing for a hdqtrs presentation next week. She is a awesome, down to earth person.
One is an artist who is now caring for her invalid mother in her home, while continuing to make a living, which has become quite difficult for her to do...this just happened last weekend right after I called her last Friday night. She is a taker...80% of our conversations are about her life, which is a bit messy.
One is in the mid-west and is sick with PD also, and has two invalid parents. On the fence to discribe.
My father...I will sum up my childhood this way. My sisters and I remember only snippets of our childhood. And, those are not good memories, but fear memories. We remember zero holidays or birthdays. My father was bi-polar and OCD, very physically strong (a blue collar laborer), and very tall...very imposing. If he wasn't crying in the bedroom, he was obsessing about the house work/choses, etc. Sadly, I was his favorite...the one that tried to makes everybody happy. My older sister was the rebel, so she was resented because of her tenacity. My younger sister was the shy one he hated because she was not a boy. Any words that you think of that apply to childhood fear can be inserted.
Will be back later...my autistic grandson...sweetie that he is and one of the loves of my life...would like to use this computer.
Beginning with my husband, especially towards the end of our marriage, I would take sweet greeting cards and put them in his car or on his desk at work. Seeking what I had wanted since childhood?
With friends I have done the same. I worked hard to get to know them...likeds, dislikes, children, etc...sent e-cards and snail mail cards at the appropriate time and/or when sick, etc. Seeking that acceptance again? Seeking validation that I am a nice person?
Of the three friends...again I am seeking and expecting something that may be too much to ask:
One is a VP a large national company. Called today from the road to say sorry for not replying the past five days. She has had chaos in the two offices she oversees...two different states...and is preparing for a hdqtrs presentation next week. She is a awesome, down to earth person.
One is an artist who is now caring for her invalid mother in her home, while continuing to make a living, which has become quite difficult for her to do...this just happened last weekend right after I called her last Friday night. She is a taker...80% of our conversations are about her life, which is a bit messy.
One is in the mid-west and is sick with PD also, and has two invalid parents. On the fence to discribe.
My father...I will sum up my childhood this way. My sisters and I remember only snippets of our childhood. And, those are not good memories, but fear memories. We remember zero holidays or birthdays. My father was bi-polar and OCD, very physically strong (a blue collar laborer), and very tall...very imposing. If he wasn't crying in the bedroom, he was obsessing about the house work/choses, etc. Sadly, I was his favorite...the one that tried to makes everybody happy. My older sister was the rebel, so she was resented because of her tenacity. My younger sister was the shy one he hated because she was not a boy. Any words that you think of that apply to childhood fear can be inserted.
Will be back later...my autistic grandson...sweetie that he is and one of the loves of my life...would like to use this computer.
Sannah
02-25-2007, 11:04 AM
She is a taker...80% of our conversations are about her life
Carolyn, this is what I am talking about, I did the same thing. I was there for everyone else, not even realizing that I was choosing somewhat selfish people and at the same time withholding myself because this was what was comfortable. This all changed once I realized that I needed balanced relationships not just me giving. I always wondered why my needs weren't getting met. Well, I was withholding them and I was choosing relationships where I was giving.
Carolyn, this is what I am talking about, I did the same thing. I was there for everyone else, not even realizing that I was choosing somewhat selfish people and at the same time withholding myself because this was what was comfortable. This all changed once I realized that I needed balanced relationships not just me giving. I always wondered why my needs weren't getting met. Well, I was withholding them and I was choosing relationships where I was giving.